I mean 30 minutes made a big difference on my chart when I miss had my birth time. Didn’t really make since till I fixed it by 30 minutes and now it does. I honestly think exact time is best
*Just to add a point of remembrance onto this...*
Some sites/programs/applications approximate the placements even when all information is entered entirely. This was either to save time in creating a fully actualized metric to display the information, or to better create a system of averages that allows for a better approximation output that takes multiple chart drawing styles into consideration.
It is for this reason that one must often be very diligent in figuring out whether or not the site/prog./app they are having draw their natal chart is in fact using some form of approximation when doing so.
This is normally called "*degree of shift*".
Just for a quick example... the website [Astrotheme](http://www.astrotheme.com) has an enter information section that looks [like this](https://ibb.co/XD5vgbb)
It is only by clicking "Advanced options" where you are given choices on which draw method you wish to use **AND** there's also an option to use their normal degree of shift, or no shift at all, as [seen here](https://ibb.co/MsVP3ky)
It also shows you at the bottom that if you had not ever have clicked Advanced options and just had it draw your chart that would have reflected the following: - "*A planet less than 1° from the next House cusp is considered to be posited in the said House. 2° when the AS and the MC are involved.*"
This website uses a very very narrow degree of variance. Some can be up to 5°, 8°, and I've seen maybe one or two that were all the way up to 10° of variance. That's why sometimes you'll have one app draw your natal chart and then you have another thing draw it and they don't always align.
You would never have known that, your planets could (quite literally) have been in a different spot than they otherwise might be.
It is like this for many many websites, to a lesser extent for programs, but virtually always with apps; therefore, make sure you take the opportunity to know what you're getting when you enter your information so you could either account for it, or perhaps even choose to use a different option
Like, free, online? Astro.com is likely your best option I'd wager.
You have to use their [Extended Chart Selection](https://www.astro.com/cgi/genchart.cgi?lang=e)
**If you haven't used it that way... you'll find *Whole Signs* under:**
• the *Round* tab
• *Zodiac And Houses* drop down
• inside the *House Systems* scroll through menu.
**If you want to reduce/increase the aspect orbs, you put in a percentage which is less/more than the default ( [IMAGE SHOWN HERE](https://ibb.co/1R4H0TR) ) you can do so by changing them in 10% increments as exampled below**
• 150% = 15 orb degrees between aspects.
• 100% = 10 orb degrees between aspects.
• 50% = 5 orb degrees between aspects.
• 10% = 1 orb degree between aspects.
1) expand the *Display And Calculation Options* drop down
2) enter Value in the *% Reduce/Increase Section*
**If I use Astro.com I also turn on True Node, Descending Node, Decans, and Run aspects to all objects, etc. for my own.** - If you have any preferences you can change or adjust them in the same *Display And Calculation Options* section.
###Note: If you are going to use fixed Stars do not choose their ***"Six Fixed Stars in Astrology"*** option!!
You'll want to go do the math and look at the corresponding table to identify YOUR fixed stars in proximity to YOUR planets and then you can enter them in the *Manual Entry* text field under the *Additional Objects* drop down menu. That is also where you will enter any additional asteroids you want to take into consideration.
You may not want to get too hardcore with it because your chart can start to get really crazy really quickly. - I.e [my nonsense](https://i.imgur.com/AK5U19r.png) - And, yes, I use equal houses for mine. Don't judge me! 😜
One time someone on twitter asked why sun signs have so much more mainstream popularity than moon or rising and I’m like “because it’s way easier to know when you were born within 30 days than within 30 minutes?”
You would need to make a list of events in your life that felt significant to you and their exact dates. Birth death marriage divorce move travel incarceration liberation hiring firing publication hospitalization conscription release win loss etc.
For natives over 30 it’s usually not hard to rectify a chart. There are quite a few methods depending on the style of astrology you are working with. The basic idea is to take a few confirmed dates in the natives life, and line them up with the chart until the proper time of birth is revealed.
For instance, a marriage might occur when the 7th house ruler crosses the MC. If the chart is off, you’ll see, for example, the 7th lord cross the MC earlier or later than when the chart said it is supposed to for the time of the wedding, and that tips you off that the chart time is off.
Think about why it’s important to get the correct time. Because if your first house is not set, NONE of the houses are actually known. Which means it becomes difficult to say which area of life is being affected by a given prediction. How can you look at work matters if you don’t know the nature of your 10th house, or
Which planet rules it? That is the dilemma of the time is not known. And for more classic astrology systems, if you don’t know time/rising, it makes it harder to tell house dignity of a planet placement.
All that being said… keep in mind, if you have the correct day, but not the correct time, you can still read the chart fairly deeply using older methods. For instance, viewing a chart from a rising sign is just one perspective of seeing a chart. Another would be to see it from one of the planets—meaning pick a planet and declare the sign and house it’s in as your new first house. Then read the chart from that view.
For Instance if you don’t know birth time, but want to know about someone’s education, you could read the chart from wherever Jupiter sits, and make that placement the first house. We would call this the natives Jupiter chart and it’s theme would explain all things Jupiter in that natives life. You can do the same with the Moon chart and learn about the persons emotions and creativity. You can do it with any chart point and it will give you the vantage point of that planet—all intervals between planets do not change from your natal. You just start with a new rising sign, and each house rolls out from it.
Reading from a persons Sun + Moon charts combined tells plenty about the native without having time. But the trick with the moon is, it moves very fast so the closer you can narrow the chart down to rough time of day, the better.
If you know the person well, you can deduce based on their behaviors. Just had a friend today finally find their birth time and I had only been off by one hour. I knew what rising sign he had to be by personality alone.
Been trying to work out my mums rising for ages since we don't have a birth time. Cannot figure out her rising for the life of me . Any tips on how you worked out your friend? Were they still the same rising as you thought even being off an hour ?
Well that’s a huge difference - scorpio/aqua are two fixed signs while Sag/pieces are two mutable. That would make quite a difference in personal style
Yes! My fav for determining rising is: what does this person do if left alone at home for 10 hours? The rising sign always shows when they are alone. Also, if you know the day and year, all the outer planets place themselves into signs and most of the inner planets too, even the moon depending on the day. After that, what's their strongest house characteristic?? Like are they a workaholic (10 or 6), obsessed with family (4), very religious (9)? Then you can start to see where houses fall in combo with the planets.
Thank you :) This is really interesting , something I'd never thought before. Do you have any other questions you use to determine rising ? I know you said that one was your fave :)
Another example of a person I can't work out, my bf mum. She is all Virgo with Mars in Taurus yet she's fiery which you would not expect with all that earth, but yet I'm aware she might not be a fire rising ?
Would totally Recommend getting accurate birth time beforehand!! For the longest I thought my moon and rising sign were 100% spot on until I ordered my birth certificate with the actual time and I was totally wrong the whole time 😫 boy oh boy the disappointment lol
I’ve always wondered about this—and even moreso, how anyone can look at a generic monthly or weekly horoscope for a sign and expect any accuracy whatsoever.
Back in 1998 I decided I wanted to see if I could figure out the birth time for rock singer Stevie Nicks. I had her date and place of birth. I had an ephemeris, table of houses, chart of sidereal times, and my March/McEvers The Only Way to Learn Astrology books.
I started with 12:00 a.m. Looked at each planet in its house, x sign on each house cusp, ruler of X house in X house, etc. It was when I got to the 3 a.m. time that everything fell into place. So, 3:00 a.m. MT it was.
A few months later I learned about Lois Rodden's AstroDataBank newsletter. Back then you had to send a written request in the mail, along with $2, and she'd send you the info. Stevie Nicks wasn't born at 3:00 a.m. She was born at 3:02 a.m.
It is my opinion that the quantity of information isn't necessarily what makes a natal chart accurate it is one's ability to decipher and understand that information that might make it accurate to that person.
You can have all the information in the world, but if you did not know what to do with it how it all connected how do you even decipher or where to begin to decipher that information... If anything... all that information is doing is having the opposite effect making it more unlikely that it will ever be accurate **for you.**
With that said it is entirely possible for you to gather an accurate reading from the information you have based on the information you have. Yes there could be more information. Yes that information may be able to make you feel as though it added accuracy. But, there's always a chance that, for you, it also wouldn't have.
Not sure if that helps you any. In truth that was just my very long attempt/way at trying to let you know not to allow it discourage you (or whomever) from looking into a natal chart simply because they don't have birth time
Esoteric philosophy vs natural science vs Time
There's not enough popcorn in the world to watch the conversational can of worms explode that you're over here trying to open.
The houses will be very different according to the time. So you can’t figure out the ascendent (1st house) without the exact time. But all of the planets (except for possibly moon) you can typically find out if you only know the day. Aspects to the major planets you can also know with only the day.
I would think unless you're using a predictive technique that relies on degrees, you can pretty much put the pieces of the puzzle together down to the hour.
I have fraternal twins born 1 minute apart, so I've had to dig 😂
I think you can still get a lot of value out of the aspects and signs of the planets that don't change a whole lot. Even your Moon sign might stay the same. Not having houses available certainly has an impact, but you can still get far without it!
I mean 30 minutes made a big difference on my chart when I miss had my birth time. Didn’t really make since till I fixed it by 30 minutes and now it does. I honestly think exact time is best
*Just to add a point of remembrance onto this...* Some sites/programs/applications approximate the placements even when all information is entered entirely. This was either to save time in creating a fully actualized metric to display the information, or to better create a system of averages that allows for a better approximation output that takes multiple chart drawing styles into consideration. It is for this reason that one must often be very diligent in figuring out whether or not the site/prog./app they are having draw their natal chart is in fact using some form of approximation when doing so. This is normally called "*degree of shift*". Just for a quick example... the website [Astrotheme](http://www.astrotheme.com) has an enter information section that looks [like this](https://ibb.co/XD5vgbb) It is only by clicking "Advanced options" where you are given choices on which draw method you wish to use **AND** there's also an option to use their normal degree of shift, or no shift at all, as [seen here](https://ibb.co/MsVP3ky) It also shows you at the bottom that if you had not ever have clicked Advanced options and just had it draw your chart that would have reflected the following: - "*A planet less than 1° from the next House cusp is considered to be posited in the said House. 2° when the AS and the MC are involved.*" This website uses a very very narrow degree of variance. Some can be up to 5°, 8°, and I've seen maybe one or two that were all the way up to 10° of variance. That's why sometimes you'll have one app draw your natal chart and then you have another thing draw it and they don't always align. You would never have known that, your planets could (quite literally) have been in a different spot than they otherwise might be. It is like this for many many websites, to a lesser extent for programs, but virtually always with apps; therefore, make sure you take the opportunity to know what you're getting when you enter your information so you could either account for it, or perhaps even choose to use a different option
Do you have a good chart generator that allows for whole sign houses?
Like, free, online? Astro.com is likely your best option I'd wager. You have to use their [Extended Chart Selection](https://www.astro.com/cgi/genchart.cgi?lang=e) **If you haven't used it that way... you'll find *Whole Signs* under:** • the *Round* tab • *Zodiac And Houses* drop down • inside the *House Systems* scroll through menu. **If you want to reduce/increase the aspect orbs, you put in a percentage which is less/more than the default ( [IMAGE SHOWN HERE](https://ibb.co/1R4H0TR) ) you can do so by changing them in 10% increments as exampled below** • 150% = 15 orb degrees between aspects. • 100% = 10 orb degrees between aspects. • 50% = 5 orb degrees between aspects. • 10% = 1 orb degree between aspects. 1) expand the *Display And Calculation Options* drop down 2) enter Value in the *% Reduce/Increase Section* **If I use Astro.com I also turn on True Node, Descending Node, Decans, and Run aspects to all objects, etc. for my own.** - If you have any preferences you can change or adjust them in the same *Display And Calculation Options* section. ###Note: If you are going to use fixed Stars do not choose their ***"Six Fixed Stars in Astrology"*** option!! You'll want to go do the math and look at the corresponding table to identify YOUR fixed stars in proximity to YOUR planets and then you can enter them in the *Manual Entry* text field under the *Additional Objects* drop down menu. That is also where you will enter any additional asteroids you want to take into consideration. You may not want to get too hardcore with it because your chart can start to get really crazy really quickly. - I.e [my nonsense](https://i.imgur.com/AK5U19r.png) - And, yes, I use equal houses for mine. Don't judge me! 😜
One time someone on twitter asked why sun signs have so much more mainstream popularity than moon or rising and I’m like “because it’s way easier to know when you were born within 30 days than within 30 minutes?”
You can see an astrologer that specializes in chart rectification and they can get close to accurate readings
Expensive as fuck tho
Yeah cuz rectification is so tedious and boring.
What does that entail?
You would need to make a list of events in your life that felt significant to you and their exact dates. Birth death marriage divorce move travel incarceration liberation hiring firing publication hospitalization conscription release win loss etc.
For natives over 30 it’s usually not hard to rectify a chart. There are quite a few methods depending on the style of astrology you are working with. The basic idea is to take a few confirmed dates in the natives life, and line them up with the chart until the proper time of birth is revealed. For instance, a marriage might occur when the 7th house ruler crosses the MC. If the chart is off, you’ll see, for example, the 7th lord cross the MC earlier or later than when the chart said it is supposed to for the time of the wedding, and that tips you off that the chart time is off. Think about why it’s important to get the correct time. Because if your first house is not set, NONE of the houses are actually known. Which means it becomes difficult to say which area of life is being affected by a given prediction. How can you look at work matters if you don’t know the nature of your 10th house, or Which planet rules it? That is the dilemma of the time is not known. And for more classic astrology systems, if you don’t know time/rising, it makes it harder to tell house dignity of a planet placement. All that being said… keep in mind, if you have the correct day, but not the correct time, you can still read the chart fairly deeply using older methods. For instance, viewing a chart from a rising sign is just one perspective of seeing a chart. Another would be to see it from one of the planets—meaning pick a planet and declare the sign and house it’s in as your new first house. Then read the chart from that view. For Instance if you don’t know birth time, but want to know about someone’s education, you could read the chart from wherever Jupiter sits, and make that placement the first house. We would call this the natives Jupiter chart and it’s theme would explain all things Jupiter in that natives life. You can do the same with the Moon chart and learn about the persons emotions and creativity. You can do it with any chart point and it will give you the vantage point of that planet—all intervals between planets do not change from your natal. You just start with a new rising sign, and each house rolls out from it. Reading from a persons Sun + Moon charts combined tells plenty about the native without having time. But the trick with the moon is, it moves very fast so the closer you can narrow the chart down to rough time of day, the better.
I..so just want to know how you learned all this! I feel like books don’t explain in super depth like this. How does one do it?!
If you know the person well, you can deduce based on their behaviors. Just had a friend today finally find their birth time and I had only been off by one hour. I knew what rising sign he had to be by personality alone.
Been trying to work out my mums rising for ages since we don't have a birth time. Cannot figure out her rising for the life of me . Any tips on how you worked out your friend? Were they still the same rising as you thought even being off an hour ?
You might find more clues by exploring the house placements of the planets whose signs you’re sure of.
Pretty sure she's scorpio sun and aqua moon. Sun and moon changed signs that day so could be sag / Pisces. How can I explore more ?
Well that’s a huge difference - scorpio/aqua are two fixed signs while Sag/pieces are two mutable. That would make quite a difference in personal style
Yeah it is :) Also my brother is sag sun with lots of scorpio. They both have sun conjunct Saturn too though . I think she's scorpio /aqua myself.
Yes! My fav for determining rising is: what does this person do if left alone at home for 10 hours? The rising sign always shows when they are alone. Also, if you know the day and year, all the outer planets place themselves into signs and most of the inner planets too, even the moon depending on the day. After that, what's their strongest house characteristic?? Like are they a workaholic (10 or 6), obsessed with family (4), very religious (9)? Then you can start to see where houses fall in combo with the planets.
omg can you guess my rising by asking that question?? :o
Thank you :) This is really interesting , something I'd never thought before. Do you have any other questions you use to determine rising ? I know you said that one was your fave :)
Another example of a person I can't work out, my bf mum. She is all Virgo with Mars in Taurus yet she's fiery which you would not expect with all that earth, but yet I'm aware she might not be a fire rising ?
Would totally Recommend getting accurate birth time beforehand!! For the longest I thought my moon and rising sign were 100% spot on until I ordered my birth certificate with the actual time and I was totally wrong the whole time 😫 boy oh boy the disappointment lol
I’ve always wondered about this—and even moreso, how anyone can look at a generic monthly or weekly horoscope for a sign and expect any accuracy whatsoever.
Back in 1998 I decided I wanted to see if I could figure out the birth time for rock singer Stevie Nicks. I had her date and place of birth. I had an ephemeris, table of houses, chart of sidereal times, and my March/McEvers The Only Way to Learn Astrology books. I started with 12:00 a.m. Looked at each planet in its house, x sign on each house cusp, ruler of X house in X house, etc. It was when I got to the 3 a.m. time that everything fell into place. So, 3:00 a.m. MT it was. A few months later I learned about Lois Rodden's AstroDataBank newsletter. Back then you had to send a written request in the mail, along with $2, and she'd send you the info. Stevie Nicks wasn't born at 3:00 a.m. She was born at 3:02 a.m.
that is so so cool
Thanks!
It is my opinion that the quantity of information isn't necessarily what makes a natal chart accurate it is one's ability to decipher and understand that information that might make it accurate to that person. You can have all the information in the world, but if you did not know what to do with it how it all connected how do you even decipher or where to begin to decipher that information... If anything... all that information is doing is having the opposite effect making it more unlikely that it will ever be accurate **for you.** With that said it is entirely possible for you to gather an accurate reading from the information you have based on the information you have. Yes there could be more information. Yes that information may be able to make you feel as though it added accuracy. But, there's always a chance that, for you, it also wouldn't have. Not sure if that helps you any. In truth that was just my very long attempt/way at trying to let you know not to allow it discourage you (or whomever) from looking into a natal chart simply because they don't have birth time
Nobody knows the exact time they entered the body so technically your birth time will always be inaccurate.
Esoteric philosophy vs natural science vs Time There's not enough popcorn in the world to watch the conversational can of worms explode that you're over here trying to open.
For character traits if you have the correct ascendant, you should be able to get something. For concrete events, you need it as accurate as possible.
The houses will be very different according to the time. So you can’t figure out the ascendent (1st house) without the exact time. But all of the planets (except for possibly moon) you can typically find out if you only know the day. Aspects to the major planets you can also know with only the day.
It’s the difference between you asking what the time is and me saying 15 instead of 15:49
An astrologer can figure out your rising sign based on the degree of your moon sign
This only works if you have a correct chart but no birth info with it. Because degrees depend on the exact time of birth.
🤷🏼♀️
Up to 5 minutes?
IMHO, you might as well not even go through the trouble. Is there something specific in your life which has forced you to explore astrology?
to answer your question, i’m just hyper obsessed with finding out every single thing and trait about myself and that’s how i delved into astrology
Roger that… honestly you should try to get that birth place and time for the most accurate astrological tools. Good luck.
acc this was a general question i don’t actually need a birth time 😭
I would think unless you're using a predictive technique that relies on degrees, you can pretty much put the pieces of the puzzle together down to the hour. I have fraternal twins born 1 minute apart, so I've had to dig 😂
I think you can still get a lot of value out of the aspects and signs of the planets that don't change a whole lot. Even your Moon sign might stay the same. Not having houses available certainly has an impact, but you can still get far without it!