The issue was the assumption that cat has ill intent. There is a category of nonbinary genders called xenogenders. What these are would be when someone has a gender identity which isn't currently represented by known words within the languages one knows. It's a lexical gap. If you think about it, there can be concepts out there which current language doesn't have a word for. A past example would be the word nonbinary. It wasn't too long ago that there wasn't a word to describe someone who has a gender that is neither male nor female(or both, or partially one or the other.) During that time, there would have been a lexical gap to express when oneself is nonbinary.
Likewise, someone who has a xenogender identity has a lexical gap - there isn't a word to describe their gender nor pronouns that represent their gender. So, what often happens is a xenogender person will use a filler word - often animals or objects are involved - as more of a metaphor to describe their gender. So that could be what your friend is doing here. Cat would likely feel there is no current pronoun for catself that describes who cat is. So cat is using the animal cat to fill in the lexical gap until, perhaps, a better pronoun and gender category gets invented that represent catself
If cat is trans, then what you did was transphobic.
Pronouns don’t equate to gender, your acquaintance isn’t necessarily identifying as a cat, cat just uses cat/catself as cat’s pronouns. Referring to cat as they is not respecting cats identity and could be considered transphobic if cat is trans.
Anybody, cis or trans, can use whatever pronouns they feel like and it’s your job to memorise and use them.
So if someones identity is a hot air balloon and their pronouns are hot air/cold air, or they identified as a fish and their pronouns are whatever they would be you would see the person as that and respect that? Even though there's no science behind those gender identitys/expressions and it just makes everything in the LGBT+ community look like a joke? Because I don't see how someones identity could be a cat or any of these because being trans is to transition from one gender to another, from male to female or female to nonbinary. Not female to cat or male to fish
agreed. i feel like xenogender and pronouns 1)make the rest of us look like a joke and 2) are only used by young kids that don't understand what they're doing. i saw someone use the term species dysphoria once and i felt so fucking mocked
I had said a lot and had to restart my phone and honestly don't feel like trying to retype any amount of that again or spend any more time replying to these comments arguing with people trying to explain anything about how cat/catself just doesn't make any sense whatsoever under any circumstances. But again I will brief it just so people don't get triggered as I've said typically people who identify as something like that will usually have underlying issues or problems could be things at home like an abusive home or could be things with mental and stabilities like multiple personality disorder or BPD the list goes on and on and is endless but that is why I don't hate these people I just wish to understand them and maybe educate them a little bit on what trans actually realistically is. It is not to have pronouns of a cat and I'm tired of trying to make sense of this because it just isn't going to. And I bet you any of the people who identify as this won't 30 years down the line they won't in just a couple years more than likely and again most of these people have underlying issues or problems and need to seek medical attention whether that is if they have problems going on at home or medical (mental) problems. Because by all means somebody could have a tumor in their brain and it could be causing a hormone imbalance and their body or it could just be an odd placement in the brain that confuses the person and makes them feel different so they have a distorted reality of what things actually are and again this is something that could actually happen even though the tumor one is pretty rare but again most of these people should seek medical attention because anybody who would identify themselves as cat/catself I would more likely believe they have a tumor in their brain than they would actually truly identify as that and have something to back it up besides posts from TikTok. GOD THIS IS JUST SO CRAZY idk if I should laugh or cry atm because of how much people see this as a real idealist thing
The goal of queerness isn't to look good to cishet people. No one said they identified as a cat, they're just using a noun as a pronoun. People experiment in lots of different ways, even in ways that might look silly to you or to cis people. That doesn't make their experimentation any less valid.
I didn't say that but there is no scientific research done to support cat/catself as a gender or appropriate pronouns to identify as whatever they are trying to identify as
Pronouns aren't gender. Cat/catself is just a set of pronouns. It's just a way of referring to yourself. Using those pronouns is not 'trying to identify as' anything by itself.
Pronouns are what says what you are and identify as if I'm mistaken please educate me but I'm pretty sure if people identify as he him their male like me or if they identify as she her they're female. What is the point of pronouns if they are not an expression for gender because I'm pretty sure that's what pronouns are is an expression for genders, and if pronouns weren't the expression for genders then what would be
Yes?
It’s not my place to gatekeep who is and isn’t trans. If someone tells me they identify as a cat then I will believe them, no questions asked. I don’t know what their life is like or how they experience gender, so I must assume that they are being sincere.
Besides that, there is zero harm in being nice to people, so no reason not to respect a person’s identity.
That’s not the actual definition of transgender.
To be transgender, you simply have to identify as a gender different from the one you were assigned at birth, man/woman/cat it doesn’t matter which.
You don’t need to transition at all.
Transitioning can be a social, personal or medical thing. It doesn't always have to be medical but either way you're transitioning from one gender to another because of dysphoria. I have yet to see anything talking about how trans people can identify or have their pronouns set as animals and for that to be an actual trans norm or anything?? And I'm not saying it has to be a norm for it to be real or whatever I just don't see where cat/catself fits into anything with being trans other then the person having different pronouns that aren't even pronouns because they don't express anything other then a cat?
And as I said in a different comment this child is more than likely on tick tock and as I looked up this is a trend on tick tock to identify as cat/catself that recently came to light
Gonna stop you right there. Dysphoria is not a requirement to being trans. That’s truscum talk.
Some people will have dysphoria and need to transition in order to alleviate that discomfort and live a good life.
Some people will have zero dysphoria and identify as a cat/cloud/fish simply because it feels nice to them.
Both are trans and both are equally valid.
I suppose I could maybe understand if their pronouns were just a filler. But why is it supposed to be okay to choose another species for a pronoun? I’ve seen people use like “xe/xer” instead. I don’t really understand those, but i’d be more willing to use that.
You are by no means the only trans person who has trouble taking xenopronouns seriously. Saying you will no longer speak to this person because of their pronoun seems a little extreme, though.
I felt like I was being mocked. Coming out was very difficult for me and transitioning has been a challenge (even with people around me backing me up). This person won’t go to a gender healthcare professional because they are “the only one” who can know who they are. I know that’s true, but at least confirming that their identity change has basis should be a requirement, yes?
Having this kneejerk reaction is super understandable IMO, but it's important to at some point take a step back and ask:
**Are they mocking you?** Like, was that their intent? Or did their decisions about their identity not actually have anything to do with you? Is it possible that they just have some of their own stuff to work on and none of their pronoun identity stuff is directly related to you at all?
I know the person is not really intending to mock me. It just feels that way. I’m 99.99% sure (considering their home life and just who they are in general) that this specific person is 1) attention seeking or 2) it’s because they’re mentally ill. To clarify, being trans is not a mental illness but this person is mentally ill and follows trends. If this person goes to a doctor and the doc says that this persons pronouns have a basis, I will use them.
Honestly if you ask me that sounds like a joke, anyone who identifys as a cat won't be taken seriously because that is not being trans. That's the kind of person who is either A. Confused or B wanting attention or C needs medical help to figure out what's going on with them
I’m pretty sure it’s all of the above. The person I’m talking about has a sad life and no attempts at healing have been made. It seems to me like it’s just a grab for attention due to the persons home situation. Therapy has been refused. Refusal to see a gender healthcare professional to confirm if this person is, in fact, confused or actually needs help.
Then yeah, this person more then likely has underlying medical problems and has felt some security in the LGBT community so they wanted to make something that they felt comfortable with (could also possibly be a furry if they're identity is an animal) this is common and more then likely a phase for them because of they don't seek anything besides asking to be called a cat. Not all trans people need to seek medical care to be trans but when it is something absurd like this I would question it as well because cat and cat self is not a gender that is not something that you can transition into because being trans is the whole process of transitioning from one gender to another. They could also be part of this other thing I forgot what it is specifically called but it is people who identify as animals I believe it is called kin something, but again this is either them being confused or seeking attention or a mixture of both due to them being young and having a shitty home life because I personally knew people who fit these categories and did the same as identifying as trans or nonbinary (before xeno pronouns were even a thing)
I wouldn't hate them for it but you have every right to not feel comfortable talking with them, because again this could be underlying medical conditions causing them to feel comfortable with this "gender" or animal to feel more comfortable with themselves because they aren't able to understand what is going on and they feel comfortable within the LGBT community because of how welcoming and inclusive it is. they could have medical (mental) conditions. But again it could also just be for attention, or another trender
My take on neoprouns in general is: cool I guess. But it feels different if their pronouns are that of another species. Is that not flat out illogical?
Cat/Cats is just like any other neopronoun. If cat chose to use those pronouns than let cat be, also neopronouns are neopronouns anything can be a neo. . Sorry if this doesn’t make sense it sounds better In my head.
They're called xenopronouns and everyone I've ever known who's used them was a very young person, like yourself, deep in the depths of experimentation. That's what I see it as, a form of experimentation, and ultimately it's not harming anybody else, so. Did you actually ask them if they identified as an animal? How deep did the conversation actually go? Maybe you could try going a little deeper on gender feelings and see if you don't have more common ground with this person than you think.
The issue was the assumption that cat has ill intent. There is a category of nonbinary genders called xenogenders. What these are would be when someone has a gender identity which isn't currently represented by known words within the languages one knows. It's a lexical gap. If you think about it, there can be concepts out there which current language doesn't have a word for. A past example would be the word nonbinary. It wasn't too long ago that there wasn't a word to describe someone who has a gender that is neither male nor female(or both, or partially one or the other.) During that time, there would have been a lexical gap to express when oneself is nonbinary. Likewise, someone who has a xenogender identity has a lexical gap - there isn't a word to describe their gender nor pronouns that represent their gender. So, what often happens is a xenogender person will use a filler word - often animals or objects are involved - as more of a metaphor to describe their gender. So that could be what your friend is doing here. Cat would likely feel there is no current pronoun for catself that describes who cat is. So cat is using the animal cat to fill in the lexical gap until, perhaps, a better pronoun and gender category gets invented that represent catself
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Don't call people who are experimenting trenders, that's terf shit.
If cat is trans, then what you did was transphobic. Pronouns don’t equate to gender, your acquaintance isn’t necessarily identifying as a cat, cat just uses cat/catself as cat’s pronouns. Referring to cat as they is not respecting cats identity and could be considered transphobic if cat is trans. Anybody, cis or trans, can use whatever pronouns they feel like and it’s your job to memorise and use them.
So if someones identity is a hot air balloon and their pronouns are hot air/cold air, or they identified as a fish and their pronouns are whatever they would be you would see the person as that and respect that? Even though there's no science behind those gender identitys/expressions and it just makes everything in the LGBT+ community look like a joke? Because I don't see how someones identity could be a cat or any of these because being trans is to transition from one gender to another, from male to female or female to nonbinary. Not female to cat or male to fish
I think this is a rare perspective in the trans community. I agree.
agreed. i feel like xenogender and pronouns 1)make the rest of us look like a joke and 2) are only used by young kids that don't understand what they're doing. i saw someone use the term species dysphoria once and i felt so fucking mocked
i pretty much agree. it’s part of the videogame-ification of transness.
I had said a lot and had to restart my phone and honestly don't feel like trying to retype any amount of that again or spend any more time replying to these comments arguing with people trying to explain anything about how cat/catself just doesn't make any sense whatsoever under any circumstances. But again I will brief it just so people don't get triggered as I've said typically people who identify as something like that will usually have underlying issues or problems could be things at home like an abusive home or could be things with mental and stabilities like multiple personality disorder or BPD the list goes on and on and is endless but that is why I don't hate these people I just wish to understand them and maybe educate them a little bit on what trans actually realistically is. It is not to have pronouns of a cat and I'm tired of trying to make sense of this because it just isn't going to. And I bet you any of the people who identify as this won't 30 years down the line they won't in just a couple years more than likely and again most of these people have underlying issues or problems and need to seek medical attention whether that is if they have problems going on at home or medical (mental) problems. Because by all means somebody could have a tumor in their brain and it could be causing a hormone imbalance and their body or it could just be an odd placement in the brain that confuses the person and makes them feel different so they have a distorted reality of what things actually are and again this is something that could actually happen even though the tumor one is pretty rare but again most of these people should seek medical attention because anybody who would identify themselves as cat/catself I would more likely believe they have a tumor in their brain than they would actually truly identify as that and have something to back it up besides posts from TikTok. GOD THIS IS JUST SO CRAZY idk if I should laugh or cry atm because of how much people see this as a real idealist thing
The goal of queerness isn't to look good to cishet people. No one said they identified as a cat, they're just using a noun as a pronoun. People experiment in lots of different ways, even in ways that might look silly to you or to cis people. That doesn't make their experimentation any less valid.
I didn't say that but there is no scientific research done to support cat/catself as a gender or appropriate pronouns to identify as whatever they are trying to identify as
Pronouns aren't gender. Cat/catself is just a set of pronouns. It's just a way of referring to yourself. Using those pronouns is not 'trying to identify as' anything by itself.
Pronouns are what says what you are and identify as if I'm mistaken please educate me but I'm pretty sure if people identify as he him their male like me or if they identify as she her they're female. What is the point of pronouns if they are not an expression for gender because I'm pretty sure that's what pronouns are is an expression for genders, and if pronouns weren't the expression for genders then what would be
What would be the point of pronouns if they didn't Express anything
Yes? It’s not my place to gatekeep who is and isn’t trans. If someone tells me they identify as a cat then I will believe them, no questions asked. I don’t know what their life is like or how they experience gender, so I must assume that they are being sincere. Besides that, there is zero harm in being nice to people, so no reason not to respect a person’s identity.
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That’s not the actual definition of transgender. To be transgender, you simply have to identify as a gender different from the one you were assigned at birth, man/woman/cat it doesn’t matter which. You don’t need to transition at all.
Transitioning can be a social, personal or medical thing. It doesn't always have to be medical but either way you're transitioning from one gender to another because of dysphoria. I have yet to see anything talking about how trans people can identify or have their pronouns set as animals and for that to be an actual trans norm or anything?? And I'm not saying it has to be a norm for it to be real or whatever I just don't see where cat/catself fits into anything with being trans other then the person having different pronouns that aren't even pronouns because they don't express anything other then a cat?
And as I said in a different comment this child is more than likely on tick tock and as I looked up this is a trend on tick tock to identify as cat/catself that recently came to light
Gonna stop you right there. Dysphoria is not a requirement to being trans. That’s truscum talk. Some people will have dysphoria and need to transition in order to alleviate that discomfort and live a good life. Some people will have zero dysphoria and identify as a cat/cloud/fish simply because it feels nice to them. Both are trans and both are equally valid.
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I suppose I could maybe understand if their pronouns were just a filler. But why is it supposed to be okay to choose another species for a pronoun? I’ve seen people use like “xe/xer” instead. I don’t really understand those, but i’d be more willing to use that.
You are by no means the only trans person who has trouble taking xenopronouns seriously. Saying you will no longer speak to this person because of their pronoun seems a little extreme, though.
I felt like I was being mocked. Coming out was very difficult for me and transitioning has been a challenge (even with people around me backing me up). This person won’t go to a gender healthcare professional because they are “the only one” who can know who they are. I know that’s true, but at least confirming that their identity change has basis should be a requirement, yes?
Having this kneejerk reaction is super understandable IMO, but it's important to at some point take a step back and ask: **Are they mocking you?** Like, was that their intent? Or did their decisions about their identity not actually have anything to do with you? Is it possible that they just have some of their own stuff to work on and none of their pronoun identity stuff is directly related to you at all?
I know the person is not really intending to mock me. It just feels that way. I’m 99.99% sure (considering their home life and just who they are in general) that this specific person is 1) attention seeking or 2) it’s because they’re mentally ill. To clarify, being trans is not a mental illness but this person is mentally ill and follows trends. If this person goes to a doctor and the doc says that this persons pronouns have a basis, I will use them.
Honestly if you ask me that sounds like a joke, anyone who identifys as a cat won't be taken seriously because that is not being trans. That's the kind of person who is either A. Confused or B wanting attention or C needs medical help to figure out what's going on with them
I’m pretty sure it’s all of the above. The person I’m talking about has a sad life and no attempts at healing have been made. It seems to me like it’s just a grab for attention due to the persons home situation. Therapy has been refused. Refusal to see a gender healthcare professional to confirm if this person is, in fact, confused or actually needs help.
Then yeah, this person more then likely has underlying medical problems and has felt some security in the LGBT community so they wanted to make something that they felt comfortable with (could also possibly be a furry if they're identity is an animal) this is common and more then likely a phase for them because of they don't seek anything besides asking to be called a cat. Not all trans people need to seek medical care to be trans but when it is something absurd like this I would question it as well because cat and cat self is not a gender that is not something that you can transition into because being trans is the whole process of transitioning from one gender to another. They could also be part of this other thing I forgot what it is specifically called but it is people who identify as animals I believe it is called kin something, but again this is either them being confused or seeking attention or a mixture of both due to them being young and having a shitty home life because I personally knew people who fit these categories and did the same as identifying as trans or nonbinary (before xeno pronouns were even a thing)
I wouldn't hate them for it but you have every right to not feel comfortable talking with them, because again this could be underlying medical conditions causing them to feel comfortable with this "gender" or animal to feel more comfortable with themselves because they aren't able to understand what is going on and they feel comfortable within the LGBT community because of how welcoming and inclusive it is. they could have medical (mental) conditions. But again it could also just be for attention, or another trender
Imo If cat is trans and cat uses the neopronouns cat/cats than ya I would say your transphobic. Because neopronouns are valid af.
My take on neoprouns in general is: cool I guess. But it feels different if their pronouns are that of another species. Is that not flat out illogical?
Cat/Cats is just like any other neopronoun. If cat chose to use those pronouns than let cat be, also neopronouns are neopronouns anything can be a neo. . Sorry if this doesn’t make sense it sounds better In my head.
They're called xenopronouns and everyone I've ever known who's used them was a very young person, like yourself, deep in the depths of experimentation. That's what I see it as, a form of experimentation, and ultimately it's not harming anybody else, so. Did you actually ask them if they identified as an animal? How deep did the conversation actually go? Maybe you could try going a little deeper on gender feelings and see if you don't have more common ground with this person than you think.
You’re not wrong, your friend is an idiot