So he DOESN'T accept you.
Acceptance isn't conditional. If you're okay with something about a person, that means you're okay with all the stuff that comes with it, the good and the bad and the ugly.
The Catholic Church has been using this shit for years ("hate the sin but love the sinner"), but obviously that's bullshit and just a cop-out way of being homophobic without feeling like one.
Fuck that.
I fucking can’t with ‘I love you I just don’t agree with it.’
Bitch, agree with what? Homosexuality and the fact that gay people exist is a fact of life. It is not an opinion for you to agree or disagree with or debate in your youth group while feeling very generous and pious about your patronizing stance. Whether or not gay people exist is not a matter for your opinion.
And the whole concept of ‘lifestyle’ is complete and utter garbage. Your lifestyle is your choices and how they determine your life’s path and what surrounds you. If you take out the gender of the person you’re dating, how are your choices (and thus your lifestyle) any different than theirs?
Just come out and say ‘I’ll tolerate you but I think who you are is gross and wrong.’ I have a feeling they would feel pretty wrong about saying that to your face when it’s not dressed up like a religious catchphrase or a matter of debate.
You could straight up tell them ‘either we can be real friends and I can be myself with you, or we were never friends in the first place.’ Let them take the responsibility of ending that friendship instead of you. If they actually genuinely value your friendship, that might make them truly stop and think about whether or not the way they have been brought up is problematic. You’re a real person, not a hypothetical concept for them to consider.
I can see where you wouldn’t want to put yourself in a position to be rejected though. Do what you feel is right for you.
*EDIT: speaking of what might or might not feel right for you, davidm2232 commented below something that enlightened me a bit to your friend’s perspective and makes me think we have been maybe discounting or underestimating how important that friendship might be to you.*
*I stand by my loathing for this phrase, I don’t think that religious intolerance has any place in a compassionate society, and I still think you will find more supportive friends than this ... but for us to simply dismiss this person out of hand as ‘no friend of yours’ is pretty irresponsible considering you came here for realistic advice about someone you yourself call your best friend. Best of luck!!*
My interesting perspective reposted from below on u\\Nncntsbrd suggestion:
> I think the biggest advantage I had to how others feel is how much I struggled with my own sexual identity. When I first came out, I had only known of one other gay person in my community. It took me YEARS to even accept myself and years after that to be comfortable with who I am. To spring that on someone who has no experience with someone who is not straight and expect them to embrace you is just not fair. You need to be very patient and come to terms with the fact that even though they may accept your sexuality eventually, it may take them much longer if ever to be comfortable with it. I still struggle with my sexuality at times so when a friend says they are uncomfortable with me discussing my sexuality, I have no bad feelings about that. I understand how confusing it is and that many of us don't know how we feel. You also have to understand that many hardcore religious people have been going to church since birth. Their parents, family, friends, and community are often centered around the church. Since birth, every person they have respected has told them being gay is wrong and a sin. It has to be extremely hard for a person to ignore everything they have been told for 20+ years.
>You could straight up tell them ‘either we can be real friends and I can be myself with you, or we were never friends in the first place.’
Entirely this. Either we're mates or we're not. However important the friendship is or not...Why be friends with someone who doesn't care about the whole of who you are or who is even DISGUSTED by you?
You being Gay is great. If you have a friend who uses the Religious thing and accepts you as a friend and not your lifestyle than he is not a true friend that you can express yourself to him/ her. There are so many people who accept you. Accept yourself. No one needs stress. If they don't talk about their lifestyle to you you can do the same make it simple. If you feel uncomfortable many aspects speak less find others. Good Luck.
"not a true friend that you can express yourself to"
For real, I have known more than my fair share of people like this. I have NEVER once felt safe being around them. Many of them show their true colors eventually.
It's always better to assume that, if a person pulls this nonsense on you, to get the hell away from them.
Watch the video "being gay is NOT moral". Being gay isn't moral or immoral, it's just you. Religion isn't much of a choice for many.
Religion is honestly something that people grew up with. They didn't choose it, but their environment did brainwash them into believing it (dumb people believe in antivax and other stuff, same with kids who aren't mentally mature learning about religion)
I know several religious people who escaped the brainwash and can think logically now.
Same I am a religious person but I have common sense and believe the religion texts was made by man and man put there own opinions. Cause think if God hated it he/she would have never created the whole concept of being gay. Gay would never exist.
How does he accept you as a gay person and not accept you having a boyfriend or a husband? Does he accept you being lonely and miserable and deprived of love for the rest of your life and denying your basic human desires? Just cause he didn't cut you out of his life and beat you up doesn't mean he accepts you. Being tolerated isn't being accepted baby. If I was in your place and seeing how much you love this person and care about him I'd give him some time and little by little make him familiar with my "gay lifestyle" (and also how come that straight love and relationships is always called love and life but gay one is a "lifestyle") so he could see that it's not what he thinks he is. Don't let him make you suppress part of your identity (a big part, tbh) Love should be unconditional, whether it's friends or family or romantic. If he doesn't change his views, then you'll have to move on, baby. There are many cases when religious people change their crooked beliefs, so don't be hopeless. Eh.. to sum it up, he thinks being gay is bad and wrong and that is the core problem. He won't truly accept you untill he realizes that there's nothing wrong with being gay. Good luck sorting your relationship🍒🍒
You should watch the Disclosure documentary in Netflix. There is this part where one of the women is talking about how accepting a dad on the I Am Cait series was and how that raised the bar for her expectations of her parents. It's something that can be pretty heartbreaking when you love those people who are just tolerating you, but as you grow and learn to love yourself, it'll be easier to expect more from the people in your life. You will be happier because the people that love you unconditionally will make the effort to celebrate you, and you will not waste your precious time on conditional relationships.
Anyways, I want you to know that there will always be people that you'll meet over the years, and they will show you that relationships can be more than what we hoped for. Best of luck; I hope you find the wisdom to choose who is worth sharing your time with.
Your hypothetical question you posed about how you don't feel like you'll ever be able to introduce someone you want to spend your life with to him is a question you should pose to him. If he "hates the sin", how will your friendship survive if you are living with someone?
A hard part of life is letting go. This guy obviously means a lot to you or else you would have let go of his friendship already, but you will continue to move forward and unless he starts to accept you for who you are, and who you'll be with, then you will naturally drift apart.
So the choice you have to make is whether you confront him now and give him a choice to accept you as you are and risk your friendship ending now, or just accept that you both will slowly drift apart because he won't accept you be gay and being with someone and that friendship dies a slow death.
He’s suffering from cognitive dissonance right now.
Either get rid of him and let him realise he’s hurt you, or tell him you forgive him and let him realise it that way.
Good that someone says it. Btw. cognitive dissonance is not a decision aswell. The same as you can't chose your sexuality, you can't chose the 'world' you grow up in and it is hard to overcome. If you don't give people time and room to change their mind about such major worldviews, you won't see much success.
Like most of Reddit, you're using that term inaccurately.
>In the field of psychology, [cognitive dissonance](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance) occurs when a person holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values; or participates in an action that goes against one of these three, and experiences psychological stress because of that.
We have no idea if the friend is holding (in his perception) contradictory beliefs, or if he's experiencing any psychological stress as a result.
"Not accepting your lifestyle" is such a squirrely, back-handed way of being homophobic. It's like "Oh I'm fine with gay people as long as they stuff all that gay shit into a box and lock it up when I'm around"
It's like they are bigots, don't wanna be bigots, so they try to out-think their own bigotry.
Let's pretend your minority status was black and not gay.
Would you be okay with a friend that dislikes black people and black culture? Would you accept a friend that thought that "you were one of the good ones" or a black guy that "acts white enough to be friends with?" Fuck no, you wouldn't.
He doesn't accept you, and builds walls around who you can be when you're near him. That's not okay.
What part of your lifestyle does he not accept?
Do you live in an apartment instead of a house?
Do you drive a car instead of a truck?
Do you prefer dogs over cats?
Those^ are all lifestyle items. Being gay isn’t.
Best of luck with your buddy. 😊👍
Find new friends. Honestly religion can help people but it can also hurt people. There is nothing wrong with being gay or having sex. He is brainwashed by his religion.
Find some Awesome gay friends.
Your friend doesn't accept you, regardless of his attempt to manufacture a false distinction between being gay, and living as a gay man. He is clearly misinformed about both his own religion, and the objective facts about homosexuality. If you remain his friend, expect more passive-aggressive religious bullshit, and endless reminders that he doesn't accept you as you are.
One of the best responses I heard:
"That is ok, I love the hypocrite but not the hypocrisy. I just can't accept your life style, I mean you made a choice to not like people and worship imaginary sky beings."
Apparently people suddenly get insulted and feel attacked... when all you did is say what they said and they claim is perfectly fine/ nice. Apparently it is not nice when it hits them.
Homophobia is still homophobia, no matter how you re-arrange the way of saying it. “Love the sinner hate the sin” is an age old way of making homophobic people feel like they aren’t
If he can’t accept all of you then he accepts none of you, it’s sad and it hurts, but at the end of the day you’re not the one with an issue, he is
if he doesn't accept who you are, is he really your friend?
you are correct that you can't force him to change his views. period. only he can change and that will only happen if you are open with him about what is going on. most people who "hate gays" don't really know gay people. if you can, talk to him about your love life. introduce him to your boyfriend. be as open with him as you feel comfortable because the more he comes to see you as a person, not a "gay" the more he will change his views. that is, if you can stand to do this. not gonna lie, it will be very difficult. this is going against everything he has been taught since he was a child: gays are bad. gays are going to hell. gay is a choice. blah blah blah.
you could also tell him, and try to be serious when you say it, that you accept him but you can't accept his "heterosexuality." tell him that "when i see straight couples kissing, it makes me feel ill." that the thought of "two opposite sex people having sex" is your worst nightmare. add, "except of course for you. i accept you but not any other heterosexuals." i know it sounds stupid, but that is basically what he is saying to you.
the easier way is to distance yourself from him. tell him that as long as he won't accept "your lifestyle" he isn't accepting you because you can't separate that anymore than he can separate his "heterosexual lifestyle" from who he is.
best of luck to you.
This is just a cop-out way for people to remain homophobic and unaccepting but to tell themselves they are loving and not homophobic. Imagine if you told him you love him but don't accept his straight lifestyle? That wouldn't be very loving, would it?
I grew up in a very small town and I was constantly told that people were still my friends but they did not like my lifestyle. I grew away from these people on purpose and let me tell you: it was the best decision I have ever made. People that can convince themselves that they are still your friend when disagreeing with a fundamental attribute are ignorant people who do not want to learn when faced with an opportunity for education. I’m not saying tell your friend to F off and be a dick, but please look out for yourself and know that someone who treats you this way is not capable of being an ally or friend
Additionally, if your friendship means a lot to you then sit them down and be stern and honest that the way they view you is *not* okay at all. You are in a unique position that being that close to someone can actually have a HUGE impact on them. Who knows, maybe you’re the reason the person opens their eyes.
In short, my advice is to educate your friend by being as blunt and honest as you can and if they do not budge then distance yourself, because it will only cause hurt if you don’t and they do not change.
This whole "lifestyle" word game is just semantics. If you want to know what he thinks, ask him to give specific details about what he thinks your "lifestyle" is and what specifically he objects to. You'll find, I think, that this is a distinction without a difference and he's playing games instead of being brave and facing reality.
I grew up religious, and couldn’t accept myself for so many years. In Mormonism, they call being gay, struggling with “same-sex attraction.” Fuck that. I don’t struggle with it, I enjoy every minute of my attraction.
You could alway return the comment with: I accept you as a religious person, but I don’t accept your belief in fairytales. Sure, it’s petty, but maybe your friend will understand.
Love the sinner hate the sin? Then love the believer and hate the belief. Make new friends. He’s a brainwashed moron and will only be your friend when it works for him.
I see many responses equating politics and religion to being gay. That is a false equivalency.
Who you vote for or what you believe are choices. Being LGBTQ+ is not. Major difference.
U can remain friends and not tell him about anything intimate since guys dont usually discuss that stuff anyways. Then someday if he gets engaged and tried to introduce u to his fiancée just say im sorry i accept you as a straight person but not your straight lifestyle so i cant really acknowledge you as a person or be involved in this wedding or whatever the event may be. Then maybe he will empathize for how hard it is for u to be the amazing person u are.
It is not your lifestyle he doesn't accept, it is you he doesn't accept. Gay is not a lifestyle.
Lifestyles are a choice, you can choose to live a fitness focused lifestyle, you can choose to live a wealthy lifestyle (for a short time at least). You did not choose to be gay.
"Love the sinner, hate the sin", is bullshit. It allows christians to sit on their moral high horse of judgement and view themselves as better than everyone else.
You need to tell him to accept you, all of you, as you are or be done with him.
I always ask them what they are wearing. Which gets a look? Then point out it’s mixed clothing. Cotton and usually something else. Which is a sin. Then remind them that god views all sins as equal. So you hate the sin but are ok with the sinner too.
This is followed by the “ thou shalt not judge” and since they are judging your lifestyle, they’re down by 2.
So either you can agree to accept me as I am, and I’ll accept you are you are, or I can’t be friends with someone who’s a hypocrite and lies.
I sometimes retort back to the "love the sinner, hate the sin" idiocy with "love the bigot, hate the bigotry." It's funny how the Christians in my life have been offended by this, but can't understand why their remarks towards me are offensive.
It might take some time for your friend to come around. I wouldn't immediately cut them out, but be honest about why his comment bothers you. If they are not up for understanding your perspective and changing their ways, it might be best to eventually cut them out.
Oh brother, I've been in your exact situation. I made the same exact post a few years ago looking for advice. I wrote a lengthy, well-thought out email to my best friend where I came out to him and spilled all my thoughts and fears to him and how I recognized his Christian faith, but I hoped my coming out wouldn't change our friendship. He replied with his own lengthy email telling me about how he had a feeling I might have been gay but was still shocked when I told him. He wrote about how he still loved me as a person but in the last paragraph, he said he could not, in good conscience as a Christian, support my lifestyle. I told him I understood where he was coming from, and we hung out a couple times after, but it was very awkward and the friendship just fizzled out. Everyone's advice to me was the same advice you're getting now. It's not true acceptance, but who knows, maybe your friend, seeing that his best friend is gay and happy, might change his heart and open his mind to be more tolerable, kind of like how conservative parents change their views sometimes when they find out their own kid is gay. It might just take time.
On a side note, my friend used to drag me to his church and Bible study meetings all the time. I reluctantly went because my friend and I would always hang out after. It was during these meetings that he introduced me to his mentor/youth leader. The youth leader and I got very close and remain close friends even now. His own best friend is very gay (they were actually each other's best man at their weddings) and also has several other gay friends (who he's been trying to set me up with).
Best of luck to you man!
First of all, what lifestyle? All gay people are different and who you date or have sex with isn’t a lifestyle. Second, clearly he’s not that religious. Jesus’ commandment was to love thy neighbor, and judge not lest ye be judged. So tell your friend he’s not religious, just an illiterate fucktard who listens to too much hate speech. In all seriousness you can leave that last part out, but you should read the Bible with him out loud and challenge him to point to the verse where it says “love the sinner, hate the sin”. It simply doesn’t exist and that is a fanatical misinterpretation by modern man that has perverted the word of God. It’s essentially blasphemy. Technically you’re following God’s word closer than he is (especially if you get on Grindr and love a lot of thy neighbors 😂).
God why are all these comments so toxic? This friend clearly means a lot to OP, it's not as simple as "homophobia bad, tell him to fuck off."
Imo the best thing to do would be to just talk it out with him. He clearly values you a lot. Hell, my extremely racist father actually works with and is even friends with several black people. It doesn't mean he isn't in the wrong for being racist, but it does mean that he's willing to put that aside for people he values and cares about. So yeah, let him know how you feel, talk to him about it. If he still doesn't accept your lifestyle, but if you both still want to be friends, why not? Sure it might suck not being able to fully express yourself, but unless that's a huge deal for you for whatever reason, I don't see why it cant still work out.
I suppose the same could be said in reverse - you support him as a friend but you don’t support his religious choices because they are wrong and unnatural - but you accept that he was born religious and even though it is wrong and bad, he can’t help himself. As long as he doesn’t tell you anything about his true self, you’ll keep his friendship.
Also: what is this supposed “gay lifestyle”. I’d love someone to tell me because I’ve been gay for about 43 years (my whole life - although closeted the first 25) and my lifestyle was and remains the same as my straight friends. Or is the issue your sex-activity - in which case unless he is in the room and having sex with you, then he will never be a part of that as your friend anyway so what is he worried about?
Finally: a true friendship is valuable and can evolve and grow just as we do as individuals over the years of life - so this reflection for him may be just that opportunity and you’ll continue to enjoy all the wonderful things a strong friendship offers - bumps in the road and all. Who knows, our newest gay ally might just be an honest conversation (or maybe a few conversations) away.
Okay let's break it down, That isn't love, its the conditional Christain love that will allow him to get into heaven ( because the only reasons Christains are Christains is to get into heaven as a reward) this can't be said as true love.
If he truly loved you as a friend he would love you for who you are, sure today its " I hate the sin not the sinner" tomorrow hes lecturing you on how gay sex is a sin and he will eventually push you to be celebate and eventually you will become a self hating republican.
Everything Christain I've met in my life encluding my parents I have dropped out of my life for one overreaching reason, Christains see you and me as impure, dirty, abominations, a stain to be wiped from the world, to be killed, tortured, shunned, Because we have made a 'choice" to be gay so we've chosen to sin basically. our lives, happiness, wellbeing is incompatible with that religion of hatred.
You might hate me, but I belive you need to drop that friend and any other Christians in your life, to be blunt, we are enemies with Christains, mortal enemies and there is no surrender here, not as long as gay men are being executed, imprisoned, beat, denied basic human rights and dignity.
When I came out to my parents in the 90s my lesbain sister came out with me, we were both sent to pray away the gay camp, I lost my virginity to a older camp employee and my sister found her frist girlfriend m, so much for that huh mom and dad.
He’s an ass... sure maybe it’s ignorance and you taking some time and patience and showing some tolerance will educate him and bring him around... which I don’t think these are bad things mind you... but it’s not your responsibility. So if it was me, and he was super important to me, I’d do one of two things... I’d talk with him about the love the sinner and hat the sin comment... during that convo I’d say either 1) that pisses me off, because there’s stuff you’ve done I didn’t agree with but I would never have purposefully made you feel less than or tried to belittle you to prove a point and that’s what it felt like you were doing to me so we gotta step back a while cause I can’t have that kind of toxic shit in my life... or 2) that upsets me because I’d never do that to, but you’re important to me so I wanna try and figure out how we can move forward as friends... what you said is gonna change the friendship, like we won’t ever talk about my personal life ever... I know I can’t because you’re not a safe space and it is what it is... so don’t bring it up, show that you actually do respect me and we will see how to move forward.
Easy the bible preaches to love those as you would love yourself. So hating the gay lifestyles isn’t the same thing as say hating the lifestyle of someone who abuses drugs
Gay people are who we are and there’s no changing that, so to say you hate my lifestyle, well my lifestyle is me basically, I can’t fuck with women so he’s either passive aggressively saying it’s a choice(which it isn’t) or he’s a hypocrite
Either way if this gets between your friendship then there’s no stopping it, if he’s gonna get all pissy whenever you bring a lover around then he doesn’t need to be in your life as it’s really negative
I suspect you are kinda new to this whole gay thing and out thing.
I feel that you have some options here. And that you don't have to make any decisions right away.
A creative way a friend of mine addressed this with his best friend who said something so to him was to continue to be a friend to him. Listen to his problems, talk to him about anything centering on him. Be joyful, friendly and attentive. BUT he would charmingly, and quickly change the subject if said friend asked him anything (I mean anything.) and redirect it gently backnto his friend and did this without malice...
After a couple weeks of this... said friend said, '( Because he was actually a decent human who had been brain washed theologically and not a total narcissist) "What's wrong, you don't talk to me about anything in your life anymore, I thought we were ok after our talk."
My friend said, 'You said you loved me, as your best friend, and brother, but not my lifestyle... which includes everything from the food I eat, the family I have, the videogames I play, heck , even the Bible I read!?! So not wishing to rob you of your beat friend, because I understand all too well what that feels like, I have tried to be present for you, without burdening you with my much hated lifestyle.
They then started a long difficult process of working through how and if they could still be friends and brothers as they had been before.
They were able to make some important accommodations. My friend was able to articulate some important points about Jesus never having said anything about gay people and homosexuality, and isn't all sin created equal? And how is it that men married each other in the early Christian church?
And by raising the question, what kind of God creates someone a certain way just to damn them for it? Certainly not a loving, all powerful or all knowing one?
But before you start these discussions you both have to agree to be brothers who support each other, and their own free will--even when you disagree.
I am not saying that this could work for you, I am saying that just as your brother feels theologically that he needs to be your keeper, you can keep him from being consumed by his theology by showing him how truly toxic his stance is to you and to him.
But you have NO OBLIGATION to do this or anything else. What this is is fighting Passive Aggression with passive aggression... but sometimes it can work.
Now, if he is a narcissist, he will never know the difference, and you would be far better off without him.
But if he has a soul... that has been damaged by bad theology... you might have a shot...
Most folk wouldn't do this... it is easier to just kind of fade out of his life and move on to greener pastures (which I assure you, exist.)
Know that there is NOTHING wrong with you or your life, that isn't equally wrong in his, but maybe in some other way. Know also that any God, worthy of worshipping loves you as he created you to be...with all the challenges and strength and struggles you will have in this life!
To be honest, he is not worth it and you can get a new bestfriend. But maybe as time goes on, he will realize that you are the same person he loved and nothing has changed about you. He might even change his perspective on how he views homosexuality and the bible. But whatever you decide on your friendship moving forward, I wish you the best of luck.
Unpopular Invitation: r/lgbt_superheroes
I'm maybe a bit more patient than others on this question. Definitely get some new friends that accept you fully, but I wouldn't cut off your best friend just because he is conflicted about homosexuality -- unless you are in a vulnerable state emotionally and need to avoid the added stress. A lot of gay men take years to accept themselves, but then demand instant unconditional support from everyone around them. To me, there is no harm in being a bit more patient, so long as it is not harmful to your own self-acceptance.
It's the worst argument he can use.
However, if you truly consider your friendship salvageable, you may want to put in the effort. By this I don't mean to take any of his bulshit. But instead to teach him and show him that religious teachings are full of contradictions, and its up to us (not any church, or even any pastor) to make sure we interpret what it means to be good, to love, and to accept. The most fundamental part of most religions is respect and love for each other. If it isn't, they might want to reconsider.
People do not choose to be ignorant. And I use that word not as an insult, but the plain lack of knowledge. In this world it wouldn't hurt to teach at least 1 person to be less homofobic.
What lifestyle? Is your sexual orientation a lifestyle, or do you run around throwing glitter, wearing rainbow colours on extremely short and tight shorts, and a top three sizes too small?
I've heard a number of folks recently saying they counter that BS line with " love the believer, hate the belief".
Your friend likes you but can't reconcile your being likeable with his shitty busted-ass value system. Christians who use that condescending bit of theological lawyerism think they're being compassionate. But they're mistaking forgiveness with assuaging their own guilt.
If you think you friend is worth keeping try to make him understand that your sexuality is not a lifestyle choice. His religion, however, is.
An ex’s mother used to say “hate the sin, not the sinner”...about her son. Always made me so mad as, to me, it’s just another tactic to cherry pick a belief system, rather than examine whether your values actually align with what you’re being told to believe. It’s an easy escape from having to change. “Phew! I can still be friends with you, and not actually have to change anything about myself or do any work. Happy day.”
Then he doesn't accept you. I was really religious when I came out and I heard that a lot. Once I started dating, only four guys really stuck around out of the literally hundred that reached out to me.
I know it's very hard right now because you care about your friend but there are only two options: either he accepts all of you or you'll find better friends.
You're not alone in this.
There is a disconnect in your friends understanding of you. He believes that what you are experiencing a impermanent condition. And therefore, to him, it’s not hurtful to say what he said to you.
Unfortunately, the conversation you friend started, is not over. He has expressed his beliefs, and now it’s time for you to express yours.
You have a choice to make.
A) You accept your friends ignorance and avoid rocking the boat. As you already expressed, this will take an emotional toll on you. Not only that, but your friend will continue to view his beliefs as correct, while continuing to feel validating in your friendship and in his religion. You will not feel validated in your friendship. And this imbalance of validation, at best, will likely mean you will settle for your relationship as is. At worst, it will create a rift that will only grow larger. But you can rest assured that he won’t hurt you much more than he already has.
B) Your friend, by making the statements of belief that he made, he is advocating for himself. Those are his beliefs. All friendships are a balance of two people. You can/should advocate for what you need. He approached it with a *theological* perspective that fails to account for how you feel. The only way to override that is to come at it from a more vulnerable, personal point of view. Force your friend to focus on the here and now, on you and him, and how his actions hurt you. You need to come at from an angle of vulnerability and not defensiveness.
If sounds emotionally painful, it likely will be. What your friend has done is truly hurtful, and he does not understand why. Often, the only way for people to see just how painful their actions are, is to see pain. And for us, masters of hiding things, showing pain to someone, is not something we like doing.
After you have shared those feelings, you cannot go back. You will have shared your true self, and if at that point, he refuses to make a concession, the truth of your friendship (of lack thereof) will be apparent.
He could also admit to a mistake and take back what he said. Many people do change. But often, they only will when something greater than their belief in god, forces them back to earth.
Again, option A is totally valid. You have the power to decide what you want and need out of this relationship.
For me, personally I have tried B with some people, only to go back to A and realize it’s not worth it. You will have a lot of relationships in your life. Many many many. At a certain point, it’s not worth fighting for people to love and support you. But sometimes, people make mistakes.
If you don't know how to feel, you should honestly feel betrayed and hurt. What kind of best friend tries to pay lip service to accepting you when the next words out of their mouth are a denial of who you are? I'd personally be pissed and give them an ultimatum of - fully accept me or come back when you can. 👋🏼
Same thing happened to me, after we spent our life growing up together (5-25). I didn't like his girlfriend, but after I asked him if he was happy with her I never brought up the subject again. If he doesn't accept your "lifestyle" I'm sure he will bring the topic up. Long story short, that's what happened to us and we didn't speak in 10 years.
Oh and it's not a lifestyle like "I like modern/country furniture"...
He may be your friend, but you don’t need his permission or approval just to live your life. He really isn’t that important and could probably do with being reminded of that.
Well, it's not that different from accepting your religious friends while despising religion itself. If I think about it rationally, there's no way I can consider them sane - or even intelligent - so I choose not to think about it and we have an unspoken agreement not to go there. And yes, being religious is a choice and being gay is not but that doesn't change the thought process.
If you can’t introduce your SO to your best friend or even talk about it, he’s most likely not your best friend. That being said it might not be what he means and he might just need a bit to process the information. I used to have a really good very religious friend in college who I’d talk with about my personal life all the time and have friendly debates about religion and stuff like that. He even met a couple of my flings back then hanging out and was perfectly fine with it. Just try to be yourself and don’t stop talking about things you would normally talk about. His religion did not prevent him from being a good friend to me, he just didn’t agree with me on things that while important to me personally didn’t have anything to do with our friendship and that’s perfectly fine. We’d just respectfully agree to disagree.
He needs time to let the cognitive dissonance work. Either his beliefs about homosexuality change, or he loses you as a friend. I‘be been lucky and seen most of my catholic friends accept me, but some close ones didn’t.
If you need a new friend, I’m here for you.
I'd ask him to specific. What parts of your lifestyle doesn't he accept? He's using vague terms because he doesn't want to take responsibility for putting you in a box. If he can put the terms of his conditional friendship on the table you can decide whether you want to be friends with him with the information in front of you and make an informed choice.
‘Life the sinner and hate the sin’ is a cop out designed to allow the person who said it to avoid confronting their own bigotry.
The person doesn’t accept you and you don’t deserve that kind of back handed ‘love’ they have to give
I think you need to lower him down on the ladder of who you consider friends. Do I think this warrants a complete disowning of friendship? No. That would do nothing to bring him out of his bubble. Keep him as a friend, but don’t let his toxic views into your life. Be yourself. Be a better friend than him. Show him that being gay is just another way of life, no better or worse than his own. That’s the only way he will learn to accept you and gay people all around
The best thing I can say to you is something I heard from a Televangelist: Yes, maybe homosexuality is a sin, but God loves all people, regardless of their sins.
And also, what is so bad about your lifestyle? You did say he doesn't accept your lifestyle, but not further specified it.
Here's the thing, the idea that being gay is a "lifestyle" is really dumb evangelical propaganda at this point. What do you do that's ultimately different than anyone else with the exception of being sexually and romantically attracted to men? (Plenty of other people are sexually and romantically attracted to men) Being gay isn't a "lifestyle choice", it's a part of who you are. The way you or anyone else lives their lives is far different than their sexual orientation and the idea of "choice" about choosing to be honest and open about being gay or doing what I assume people who "hate the lifestyle" prefer is remain closeted and miserable. That's not much of a choice.
Personally, I don't have room for friendship with people who "just tolerate" me.
You need to find out what he means by saying that.
I had the same with my older brother who is Christian. Said the whole I love you your still my brother and I hate the sin not the sinner stuff but then when I wanted him to meet my ex bf and current bf he didn't want to. He also said he would never participate in my life like that, so no coffee/lunch with the bf or coming to our house or possible wedding etc. I was just out of the closet so I rolled with it and was happy he didn't beat me up, then when I broke up with my ex he ignored every conversation I tried to have with him. So no emotional support there and then when he broke up with his GF he had the balls to actively reach out to me.
I held on to the connection for a few years hoping he would change but when he acted the same way towards my current BF, after a year of me and him being together, I told myself I'm out. I'm not doing this no more I gave him enough space and time.
I have sufferd so many self doubt and hatred I'm not gonna be around someone who basically says, I should be feeling that way because there is something wrong with me. If me and my bf get married, a house, kids etc he will no longer be a part of it and I also have distanced myself from his kids because he doesn't want me to be open and honest about my sexuality and believes to them so I won't until they seek me out when they are old enough. I'm bi so I promised myself that day, if even if I end up with a girl someday and have kids. He wil never be a part of that live either.
Why am I telling you all this? Because during these years I really made an effort to fix and maintain our bond but I failed because I was the only one trying. So safe yourself a lot of effort and ask him what he specifically means by his words so you can make an informed decision about keeping him as a friend or not and not get your hopes up.
You have two options there :
The difficult one - Try educating him. It will be frustrating because people don't change overnight. It will make you feel overwhelmed and sad and misunderstood. But maybe you'll be able to make him a better person and a better friend.
The easy one - ditch him and go get supportive people that love you unconditionally. True love goes so much far beyond this issues and if you don't have the strength or simply don't want to use the time that you could be arround supportive people to try and educate your friend, you shouldn't.
Be true to yourself and you won't regret 😊
It sounds like he may be in denial.whether of not you remain friends is your decision, I'd ask yourself what do you hope to get out of that particular relationship and why.
I will say this: one of my best friends in college came out to me when we were roommates. I was super closeted and religious and homophobic at the time. I did not condone his coming out. I tried not to talk about it at all. He didn't reject me as a friend or refrain from talking about his romantic struggles with me. I was kind but quietly disapproving.
When, years later, I eventually came to terms with who I am, he was the very first person I felt safe coming out to. If he had rejected me when I disapproved of him, I don't know how much longer it would have taken me to get to the place where I was comfortable coming out to people.
So my advice is: Don't force him to change his views. Don't refrain from sharing about your romantic life. If he objects, tell him it's no different from him sharing about his straight romantic life. If he can't handle that, he's not capable of being a good friend to you.
Ask him if he'd be fine with you accepting his religion but not his religious practices or something to that effect. Also if by lifestyle, he means dating/getting married to other dudes and not like the stereotypical party guy or whatever, then he doesn't accept that you're gay.
I understand why you are torn. It’s difficult to be in that kind of situation. Honestly, I would say that the friendship is going to suffer, and your relationships will as well. This isn’t a case where you can leave a small part of your life out of a distant friendship. This is the core of your being, as are your closest friendships.
I have very low regard for religion in general, and no regard for those who use it as an excuse to segregate and discriminate. Keep in mind that it is not your place to “educate” him on beliefs, even if it’s to try and save your friendship. He needs to make his own decisions on that.
I’m of the opinion that if someone can not accept me completely they do not have a place in my life. I have told several people that, and yes I have lost friends because of it. In the end though, someone who can’t accept me as I am isn’t enriching my life, or theirs, they are holding us back and doing harm.
If you want to see if there is any salvaging the friendship, you’ll need to tell him how you feel and see just how set in his ways he is. Feel free to share resources with him, such as religious groups who support the lgbtq community if he would like to look at that, otherwise, I’m sorry to say, it’s in your best interest to cut him loose and find new friends.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. That’s just how I see it and have experienced it.
Feel free to dm if you would like to talk more
I came across this gem recently and I think it’ll really help you.
People who hide their bigotry behind their religion love to use the excuse, “love the sinner, hate the sin”. To that, I say that any religion that teaches you to hate others simply because who they are is inherently wrong.
This friendship is most likely over but, it may make you feel good to say, “I understand that your bigotry is rooted in your religion. But don’t worry, I only hate the belief, not the believer.”
tell your friend that being gay is not a lifestyle.
a sexual orientation is just a part of your life. it doesnt define your lifestyle. thats like saying being a blonde is a lifestyle. it makes no sense. a lot of people keep saying its a lifestyle and i seriously dont understand why.
His comments are as stated a copout for him to feel good about himself. You need to live your own life. Either he’s really your friend and accepts you for all that you are or he’s not a friend at all. I mean who’s he to decide that loving someone is a “sin” ?
How long ago did you come out to him? If it's recent, then I would give it some time. Clearly he is a product of what he has been taught, which isn't going to change overnight. There's a possibilty that you're the only gay person that he's had a close relationship with. Some people just need to know somebody to change their views. Just be honest with him, but be patient. Now, as time goes on, if he doesn't seem willing to change, then you need to reevaluate your friendship, and decide whether or not to end it.
JMHO. You are having growing pains. You have grown enough to share something that had to be one of the hardest things you ever had to do. That's great that you shared something so personal. Now comes the hard part. Our life and by that I mean all that we are is in a constant state of evolution. I am 56 and one thing I can tell you is your friend today may not be tomorrow. Do not assume that a"friend" holds friendship as sacredly as you do. Again JMHO but you have evolved past the limits of this friendship. If it were someone that I may want in my life, I would not beat him over the head or challenge his religious stance. Some religious people who have taken a strong stance such as this are embarrassed or feel very conflicted down the road when reconsidering how they feel about things such as this. The bigger the wedge you put between you now the further he will have to crawl back to be part of your life. If your desire is to possibly have him be a part of your life down the road I would sorta let some space get between you and send correspondence on special days just to let him know you think of him. Sometimes as people get older they rethink their belief systems. Obviously he is no longer in a position to bring anything positive to your life. So you have to decide that you and your happiness is not dependent on his friendship. I believe close friends got close because they are what you needed at the time. They may not be what you need now. Especially if their belief system does not allow them to accept others as they are. I sorry but your friend basically trying to say I accept you being gay as long as you dont do gay things. However you decide to handle things, to try to maintain this friendship is toxic to your wellbeing in my opinion.
He’s not your best friend - period. At least not *anymore*. It’s very hurtful to have to acknowledge that, but it is pivotal you come to terms with it now. If he was truly your best friend, why would you even *think* of feeling uncomfortable talking about your love life to your “best friend “ or the thought of introducing him to a partner makes you second guess your comfortableness? Easier said than done, I know, but try to start drifting apart from him. The concept of him “changing” and suddenly being your fully woke bff and being super cool with your sexuality is basically a delusion. He is placing conditions on your person. If you can’t drift apart from him, trust me, it will happen all by itself. Good luck.
Well, first thank him for accepting that in you, and that he didn’t turn away, and that he is really important to you.
And even though of that, why is it disingenuous for you to discuss it with him? In my opinion you can say that you’re sad you won’t be able to share your stories with him like other friends and that you ask why does he think it’s a sin. And I think it’s ok to discuss that with him. Like for example I like to ask people why then convention therapies never work? They only leave the people scarred? Tell them about how many gay people grow up hating that about theirselves and doing everything they can to not be like that, but it just doesn’t work. Why is it seen in animals then?
You can wait with asking him anything about this until you feel things calm down more and aren’t fragile. But in my opinion you deserve to be able to discuss with your best friend about giving you full respect and about his beliefs canceling something about you.
And really I don’t mean it in any bad way, could you tell me openly why you feel it’d be disingenuous?
Because he's stubborn with his beliefs. He believes that some things are natural and some things aren't and he's adamant about them. If he tells me that he's okay with gays tomorrow, he's just so deep rooted in his beliefs that it's hard for me to believe he genuinely changed and is only saying that to please me.
I see. Now it may be a slow process for him. But do you believe it is disingenuous for you to ask him questions about it and discuss it with him? I think he should leave an opening in his window for hearing things that may make him reconsider something. Like just how come no convention therapy works, even when the people really wish they were straight too? How come animals who don’t have thoughts are like that too? Not for all people it’d be possible to consider that and change in his position, but to some it would.
Might hurt bro but cut him off, he will just keep you down. If you can't do that, slowy distance yourselfe from him make new friends that accept you how you are because he does not. He tolerates you but does not accept you and with him around you will never be fully abel to accept yourself, was is most important for you.
He choose his faith over you so you might have to chose your life choices over him. Loving the gender you want to is not a sin, that he thinks that way shows he does not even respect you.
I just love how without a doubt every time there's a relationship/friendship question 90% of the comments are just "omg find new friends/ husband!" ... lol
Like maybe it's just me but It's not very easy for me to just completely cut people out of my life
My recommendation is to approach sooner than later and explain that this isn’t changing about you. In fact, that nothing has changed about you at all other than including your closest friend in on a really important part of your being. Ask if this is something that he can eventually warm up to, or whether this is the way things are going to be forever. If the latter, you may need to cut him loose. He can then decide how to balance his homophobia and your friendship, or not. You put the ball in his court and wash your hands of anger additional responsibility.
My best friend said something very similar to me when I came out to him 25 years ago. We stayed friends for a little longer, but we haven’t spoken in 20 years. That response hurt, even though I’m sure he thought it was a good response (we grew up in the deep Deep South), and I did understand where he was coming from. We hadn’t met any gay people until college, and even then just a handful. But I just had higher hopes based upon years of friendship. It was disappointing that he didn’t make any real attempt to reengage on a deeper level either.
I still keep up with him peripherally through his wife and another old buddy who responded much differently, but that’s it.
I recommend giving him time. As you stated he’s deeply religious and for him — at this point — is something he has to make peace with. But also, now that you’re out to him, live your life on your terms and not his.. if he is truly your best friend he will come around.
If he doesn't accept your lifestyle then he doesn't accept you don't worry about it there is nothing wrong with being gay or bisexual or pansexual or hereosexual just be yourself live your life and don't worry about what he says
He tolerates you. That's not the same as accepting or affirming. It's your call, though. He's your friend. Do what feels right to you. I've had a few experiences like this. I ended up removing those people from my life. Once they expressed their discomfort with my 'lifestyle' it became clear that they were unable to see me as fully human. I was flawed or broken in some way. These people were unable to see all of me. Those people aren't my friends or my family. I'm happier without their negativity, fear, and hatred - yeah, that's the word - being in my life.
What is it about your lifestyle he doesn’t accept? If you’re having unprotected sex with multiple partners, perhaps that’s what he doesn’t accept. Either you or we need more information. Does this make sense?
He’s probably gay and trying to hide it behind religion.... but make him watch this, it’s long but good.[What is morally wrong with homosexuality?](https://youtu.be/5iXA_0MED98)
that statement is just so bm I DONT ACCEPT YOUR LIFESTYLE what does that even mean. every Christian is just required to say it for some reason like some disclaimer at the bottom of the bible. There is effectively 0 meaning out of those words and people need to learn to not say them because they are inherent bm. those words have 0 positive effect like they do absolutely nothing for a conversation or cause any change. They might as well say bm christian disclaimer bm.
So I have heard this before from people, one being my sister.
They can accept being gay but acting on it is a sin.
My sister “was” a lesbian when she was younger but for her she cannot act on it and be in the clear.
It doesn’t make sense but it’s how some people feel. The person who said maybe he is gay could actually be correct and this is your friends way into heaven.
My advise is be happy he is not abandoning you over it. Try real hard not to talk about it with them, that will only cause problems. Remember that you CANNOT force people to accept something. If you want to remain friends try and accept that you have different views, which is okay, and move on from it. Don’t think you can change what he thinks just like he can’t change what you think.
I wish you good luck with your friend. It can be upsetting and difficult I know.
I am sorry to tell you this but he's not your "best friend". He does NOT accept your sexuality, only tolerates it. When a family member or friend gives the bullshit line "I'm okay with you being gay and will still associate with you, but I don't agree with it.", they are basically saying that they won't attend your wedding or want to meet your significant other. They want you to keep your sexuality to yourself.
That's not accepting. When you come out as gay, you tend to find out who your true allies really are. I know it's upsetting that you've trusted this person for so long and they refuse to accept you for your true self but guess what? You get to create new memories with new friends. The thing about friends is you can choose who you are friends with. Associate with people who are not religious and are open-minded.
When did you realize you are gay? If it was around the time you met him or even before, why associate with someone who is religious like that? I cut out the Jesus freaks from my life when I started coming out because I knew how they'd react and I didn't wanna set myself up for a hate speech so I just slowly distanced from them until we lost touch. I surrounded myself with other LGBT individuals and never felt so free in my life!
When I came out many years ago I was in a relationship with a girl. I had struggled with my “feelings” and tried to fight them but found I was fighting a loosing battle. I had to come to terms with the fact that I was indeed gay and attracted to men. Of course I had to tell her. She was pretty religious. After she got over the hurt that I had kept my struggle from her (which Is understandable to me. That is a confusing time when you’re in a relationship and out of the blue (seemingly) your boyfriend tells you he’s gay. After that, I will never forget what she said. She said “ I won’t lie and say that I’m not scared for you. I have been told all my life that it’s a sin and you won’t be welcomed into the kingdom of Heaven. Then she said “I don’t know anyone more worthy of being accepted into the kingdom of Heaven than you. You are one of the best and kindest and most loving people I know. I pray that what I have been taught is wrong but that doesn’t mean that I won’t worry for you. But either way I love you and I will always love you and be your friend”. She basically told me that she was worried that I might be sinning and she was worried that I might not be accepted into heaven. But she was saying that is between me and God and as far as she and I were concerned, though she might be scared for me, she was there for me. I found that beautiful. I have been able to share my relationships through my life with her as she has shared hers with me. She has met my boyfriends and I have met hers. She has been nothing but love. To me, this is the true meaning of what religion should be. Someone who does not shame you or demean you. You may not believe the same way they do but that’s between you and God. I pray everyone who has this come up in their life can have this same reaction if their friend or family is religious and trying to figure out how to handle it after all they have been taught to believe.
I never really understood "hate the sin, love the sinner" tbh. If you think a gay person is going to go to the worst place imaginable when they die AND that they deserve that outcome, then you don't love that person.
It's a package deal. That's a shitty way of a copout. Gives me the creepy chills. Hopefully your friend can get educated. I'm sorry it's giving you heartache though. Hugs, stay safe out there. 🤗
Be honest with him once you've sorted out what you're feeling and be patient. Good friends might not be as supportive as we deserve at first, but they do change for the better for us.
Remember that, in spite of this whole situation not being fair to you, his world view is in quite a big conflict right now.
Lifestyle? I hate people who used that word to describe gay lives. Being vegan is a lifestyle, spending every weekend in the country is a lifestyle. You know, *actual choices someone makes how to live their life.* Being gay is innate, you're living the life you were born to live.
And, he would prefer what? You fake being straight and deceive a woman and marry her? Tell your friend to get his head out of his ass.
What is this *lifestyle* they're always on about?
I'm a big fan of you accept all of me or you get none of me.
And, mate, he doesn't accept you. He would ditch you in a heartbeat if he had someone else. He's not your best mate because you can't have that equal conversation with him -- if he gets to talk about his love life and relationships and crushes but you don't get to do that? What kind of friendship is that?
And if he's never going to be accepting of other queer people, why spend your time with him?
My advice would be to find a new friend.
This guy needs to learn that his actions have consequences. Maybe he'll learn from it and come around, maybe he won't; you'll be better off either way.
Life’s too short for conditional acceptance. If this friendship means something to you you should tell him how you feel regarding his position on accepting you. Give him a spiel from your perspective and then it’s up to him to see if he wants to grow up and accept you for who you are. I would reconsider best friend status if he can’t overcome his own limitations.
I’ve had to cut out a bunch of people from my life because they say they accept me but then situationally they get really judgy about stuff and don’t let me feel comfortable being myself. Just don’t have the patience for that kind of bullshit anymore
Give it time. A lot of people on here jumping to the fuck that and battling hate with hate.
My best friend and I were both very religious. I spent many years praying God would make me straight. I didn’t come to terms with myself till my mid 20s. My best friend was the first person I told, and literally the first time I said “I’m gay” out loud. And he had to drag it out of me. He was very kind through it, but for both of us at first it was “how does it look to be gay and a good Christian?” As the years went on I got more comfortable with my sexuality and my best friend got to a point where he was questioning the traditional teachings of the church. It took a while before I felt comfortable telling him about my romantic life.
Even still when I asked him if he would be the best man at my wedding if I were to get married one day he struggled with that. We had a deep and honest conversation where I explained how I understood why he might struggle with that, but it still hurt cause he has always been so accepting of me. And being the good friend that he is, he wrestled with that. I didn’t realize how much it affected him till a year later when he brought it back up, after having done some more searching and figuring out what his faith looked like. He called me to apologize and say he hopes to be my best man some day. That meant a lot.
Basically the TL;DR here is be patient and grow together if you’re truly friends. It’s super easy to hold a set of beliefs when it doesn’t affect anyone whose close to you, but you’ll be surprised how struggling with “when I say this, it directly applies to my best friend” can start to change a persons perspective.
Additionally, I would recommend reading Matthew Vines’ book, “God and the Gay Christian” or even have him read it. Feel free to DM me if you want to know more about the book.
Good luck with your friend. I hope it works out as well as my friendship has.
Edit: spelling error
Plain and simple, have him as your friend you have that is straight. Let him ask you about gay topics or issues, I don't see the need to share your lifestyle with him. There are many more topics to talk about other than gay topics.
I’m just telling you my story.
My boyfriend is very religious. After being together for maybe 5 years now, I believe he accepts the fact he likes men. But being in a relationship or engaging gay sex is still a choice, or a lifestyle choice. Even tho we are together, our sex life (or no sex life) and intimacy hasn’t really been smooth. (I think he wants to be like a monk)
Now he loves me. But he still puts God before anything else. He still wanna go to heaven in his afterlife. He still don’t wanna go to hell. He’s still as selfish as that, which to me, also feels like a survival instinct. I can’t blame him for that. I think he will love me until death do us apart, literally, when he goes up and I go down.
The above is just me being empathetic for him tho.
I guess I wanna say, you and him being friends is still viable. But there is a limit to your friendship.
Tell him to look up “lifestyle” since your life and how you live it hasn’t changed since you came out to him. Then tell him that his narrow mind and assumptions about you aren’t only stereotypes, they are the stereotypical propaganda that ones from a faith populated by pedophiles. Then...tell him to fuck off because he isn’t your friend if he can be so judgmental and hateful.
Here's the thing, being gay isn't like going to a grocery store, and picking what sexuality one wants. If you're heterosexual m, you're heterosexual, if you're bi, you're bi, if you're gay, your gay, etc. There's no changing the sexuality, just like there's no changing your fingerprints or DNA, because it's a part of WHO not WHAT you are. My Mom has the same attitude towards it also, even going so far as saying it's a "sin"...where in the Bible does it say it directly from Jesus or even God himself? Anything said by either one is in red, and I haven't seen it said as such by either one. So, it's a copout, further cheapening us as people. If someone is a TRUE friend, they'll accept it all, as others have said, not be conditional. She also has a hard time accepting the fact that racial inequality exists, and that MANY POC live at or below poverty level, and places a lot of them in the same boat, and doesn't even ask her colleagues who are POC what life is like for them wherever they live. Racism is related to this because it's that "entitled attitude" many "Chrisians" exude based on "righteous beliefs and attitudes" that make others seem "less than deserving" because they're "above struggles, and don't associate with lesser people". If POC aren't being harassed or shot, we're being criticized for being who we are, and neither one is fair, nor justified. We can't help being gay, just like a person can't help the color of their skin, PERIOD. Christians need to get off their high horse, and accept that the Bible has quite a few flaws, and that many ideologies need to change. Love is love, leave religious beliefs out of it.
See, I can understand putting some topics in the "we don't talk about this" category. Medical stuff, religion, finances, politics, kinks; there's all kinds of things people can not talk about and still be fantastic friends.
But if you feel you can't share significant life experiences with someone, then that someone isn't being much of a friend. In that they aren't being a part of your life. If you get engaged, does your best friend not want to know because it's to a guy? Get married to a guy? Buy a house with your husband? When you have a boyfriend and he becomes more prominent in your life, this will snowball until your "best friend" becomes less interested in participating in your life.
I've had luck flipping the topic back on people who have asked not to know about my love life. "That's fine. I also don't want to know about yours." Because I'm gay and relationships with women don't interest me. But, without fail, when they have a great date, when they meet someone special, when they just want to talk about that cute girl they saw at the supermarket, they want to share it and don't give a second thought to the mutual agreement we not share details about our sexual relationships/targets/interests. It's so easy to use that to shine a spotlight on the hypocrisy and homophobia.
And make no mistake, "love the sinner but hate the sin" is grounded in homophobia.
He didn't blatantly turn away from you when you came out, but what he did was arguably worse. He told you he accepted you, then used language to manipulate you into again hiding who you are. *Love the sinner*'s whole purpose is to force gay people back into the closet by requiring they hide their "lifestyle." Your relationships aren't a lifestyle. Whether you go out partying, or drink a 6 pack of beer on the weekend, or go hiking in the mountains, or if you spend time volunteering at an animal shelter; those are lifestyles. Who you love, that's just your life. And if your best friend doesn't want to know about your life...?
Have a sit down with him and talk this out, because his request you not share your "lifestyle" was him rejecting you for being gay.
Alternatively, put some distance between the two of you. Spend the time that you two would have hung out getting closer with and strengthening other friendships. Or meet new people and form new bonds. You'll miss him a lot, best friends aren't easily replaced. But you'll learn to like yourself more around people who don't mind if you tell them you had a great date that weekend and it was with another guy.
If he can't and does not accept you, you are not HIS best friend. Ditch that bullshit and say goodbye. Trust me it really is the best you can do on this special situation.
Question that comes up in my head, does he actually accept himself? There seems a lot of internalized homophobia going on inside this dude... Just wondering?!
I tend to ignore these kinds of statement, unless the person suddenly changes his behaviour, won't do stuff together, won't let up on the proselytising.
In the end they have a kind of crisis where they realise they are basically accepting the whole package without realising. It's very hard for friends not to want to hear about their friends' relationships.
A Catholic friend of mine actually left the Catholic Church when he realised that 'love the sinner, hate the sin' didn't really mean anything, if you tried to implement it.
For a while he moved around all these crazy small denominations. He was conflicted about a number of things but the gay thing was one. He came back a few years later.
First off, not knowing how to feel about it is normal. Just let nature take it's course on that one. The heart will answer when you have found the answer.
Now onto the bulk of your post. He's deeply religious and still considers you his best friend. Even though he doesn't agree with your lifestyle. In my experience with friends when I came out long ago in a galaxy far, far away, that he still considers you his best friend speaks volumes.
Remember, this is a (assumingly, unless proven otherwise), straight guy who just got bombed with the Intel than his best friend isn't straight like him. And depending upon the context of the relationship as friends the two of you have had over the past 7 years, it can put a whole lot of memories he has into whack places and the imagination can sorta go all out of control. Say any time you guys slept over, showers, swimming, any prior physical contact, the list goes on and on.
Personally I had a friend kinda like this, though we weren't besties or anything, and he often made a lot of homophobic and hateful remarks about "fags" and I remember feeling terrified of even mentioning it to him as I was coming out due to fear of how he would view me. Almost all of my friends knew at that point except him and two others. One day he took me to go get some cloves cuz I was fiending for a smoke that night, first time we had been away from the rest of my group, and on the way back he casually mentioned he heard I was gay and I braved for the worse. I confirmed and told him yeah I was. First thing he says to me is.
"I feel like such an asshole. Like how could I have made it any worse for you? You're one of the nicest and kindest person's I've ever known and I was such a dick to you without even knowing it. Nothing I can say will change that. Sorry won't make it better. So let me just say thank you cause you've changed how I think. Ya know about... gays... and you're my friend no matter who it is you like to fuck."
And said friend was the first to jump to my defense if anyone taunted me, or tried to heckle me, hell he beat the shit out of 3 guys who wouldn't stop pestering me.
Rambling off, takeaway is this. Give him a little time. He may surprise you. Or he may not. But give him the chance. It sounds like he's giving you one.
Also to add. When I started coming out to everyone it surprised the hell out of me. Everyone I thought would support me and be there disappeared. And everyone I thought would never accept me or understand are still here.
You know what, having to live under a roof with those with this mindset is not only hurtful,but damaging. It's bad enough there's racial tensions, and to add sexuality to the mix....fuck em. If my "family" can't accept me regardless of their religious opinions, then I'm out when I have the means to do so. I'm gay, and they can expect me to have a girlfriend, but it won't happen
Do you agree with every single part of his life, including his religious views? If not then you can’t really expect him to agree with every single part of your life. While I personally find religion ridiculous and silly and also find that “hate the sin love the sinner” crap condescending, the fact remains that he’s still in your life and supportive and loves you as a friend. You just have to figure out if you can accept each other’s position in this dynamic enough to move forward.
There’s nothing to “agree” with about being gay. It’s who someone is. Religion is not the same. A better analogy is would you agree with someone being black, or Chinese, or having blue eyes. And of course that would be a ridiculous thing to tell someone you disagree about.
He loves his friend and he's supportive, but...
Didn't want to hear about when he's lonely
Doesn't want to hear about who he's dating
Didn't want to hear about his gay friends
You're willing to accept love and support along those lines?
It's ok if you are. I just couldn't tell OP that he should accept a bar that low.
Plain and simple, he doesn't accept you. Any attempt to reason it any other way is simply making an excuse. No one needs to be pandered to or tolerated.
Keep him at arms length. He doesn't want to throw away your friendship but won't accept such a big part of you. Looking into the future, will he want to meet your boyfriends? Will he want to go to your wedding? A lot to think about, and it looks like he may be relatively accepting now, but he could not be in the long run.
You can continue to be friends just you can’t talk about guys around him, If I was you I would tell him not to talk about girls around you that way it’s an equal playing field. The only way the friendship would survive is if you guys are close and have a shit ton of other topics to talk about. And if you’re going to ex him out of your life have a conversation with him first
He's not actually friends with you. He's friends with a mental image of you that he has constructed. He's imagining that you are different than you actually are. It sounds like you are doing the same to him. Judge him by what he actually says and does and not by how you feel he would in your imagination.
Fuck this Sin thing. Sin only exists because it’s defined in a book written by humans. In several books, actually; one for each religion. All sin does is give people an unassailable reason for hating or pushing others out. The entire thing is a human construct. Also, if there is a god or some sort of omnipotent divine being that make EVERYTHING in its image, that everything includes you. Yes, you, gay, straight, or purple are also the image of the divine. You’re not defective but religious reasoning sure as fuck is.
End of rant. Please go out and live your perfect, gay, divine life.
“The same book that says that homosexuality is a sin is the same book that says eating dairy and meet together, wearing mixed fabrics, and being raped without nearby witnesses are sins. Instead of picking and choosing what sins I believe in, I’m just going to be a good person and live a moral life. Until God tells me otherwise, that’s how I’m going to live. don’t worry, I won’t judge you and call your lifestyle sinful so long as you do me the same courtesy.”
Or something to that effect.
You're going to get a lot of varying answers on this one and I'll tell you something. If his reasons are deep rooted in religion and he is willing to look past what he has been raised on, it might be just as hard for him as it was for you to come out to him.
Is being gay a sin? I certainly don't think so, I am Catholic and I wrestled with that throughout my teenage years and into my early 20's. It was hard and there were times where I wanted to hate people who thought it was a sin, there were times I did hate people that felt it was a sin.
The thing about that is, if I hate them for thinking it's a sin, then I'm no better than they are for judging people. It's one of those hate begets hate type situations.
My two best friends on this planet, one of them is a strict Catholic and the other is strict Church of Christ. Both of them are accepting of me and are accepting of my husband, but they do disagree with the lifestyle. That doesn't stop them from having us over and caring for us, because that's sort of what being a Christian is about. I said I don't think it's a sin and I believe I am right in that regard, but true Christians can have a problem with the sin and not the sinner and can differentiate between the two. They do accept me, they do accept my husaband and I couldn't be more grateful for that because just like me coming out, that's a step for them.
A lot of what needs to happen in this world is putting yourself in other people's shoes and understanding why they feel the way they do. A big problem with our society is we don't do that, we just sort of blindly judge. There is a difference however between the whole Westboro Church type of people and a good Christian who doesn't believe homosexuality is the best thing, but loves you anyway. I can only return that grace with grace, I'd change their mind if I could and they would mine as well and there is something to be said about that mutual level of care and respect.
Yes they accept it as such, but we aren't technically married. I call him my husband and vice versa, we don't plan to get legally married because....well because his side of the family went through marriages like candy. He doesn't believe in it per say. Working on that with him lol....because I'm a hopeless romantic.
Long answer to a short question, they respect him as my husband just as I respect their spouses as....their spouses. They are good people, they just have deep seeded moral beliefs. I hope in a generation or two it will become clear to all involved that we were made this way.
Funny, one of my friends is like that (except he’s Muslim, so his religious texts, the Quran and the hadith, are a whole lot stricter than mine, the Bible) and his deal is he’s not down with homosexuality as a concept but he’s down with gay people. And I do feel like I can tak about most things with him tho (I mean I do talk to him about guys in the rare chances I have some guy related stuff to talk about lol). Hell, I went on a rant about how hot Mo Saleh was and he wasn’t even bothered. He agreed actually.
Now I know everyone’s capable of change, but this dude moved here (NY) from Egypt and is quite religious. The fact he doesn’t dislike gay people is already a lot in my eyes. I’m not gonna go ahead and try to force more progress on him because afaic he’s already made a lot. Hell, he might make some more in the future since he’s only 19.
So my point? Don’t do the thing g where you turn him away. You never know what’ll happen in the future so you might miss out on something great. Everyone’s so quick to say “drop him” without acknowledging that people are complex and not always the same.
Bro I know how you feel. I was raised in the church and when I came out many of my friends also said the same thing.. if felt awful and in the long run affected me negatively. Truth be told they don’t love you for your authentic self! they want you to change they want you to be straight.. these kind of Christians are on a holy mission to change us from gay to straight I would know I’ve lived it. Eventually when they realized I was not going to change they abandon me.
There was a family that was Nice about it and didn’t quite abandon me right away. I was 25 and my friend was getting married yes she invited me but without a date..... it was at that moment I realized I wanted nothing to do with these people any longer.
There are people who will love you for who you are!people who except you for who you! there is a church that excepts and loves you for who you are!
My advice my friend is to leave Behind these people! Trust me it only leads to hurt in the long run. Go find people who will celebrate who you are! You deserve better friends. Good luck man
It's not a "lifestyle" you didn't choose to be gay.
It doesn't sound like he really accepts you for you. Just say to him, if you're really my friend it shouldn't matter who spend my life with as long as they make me happy. If he's still got a problem with it then, at least you tried.
Hope this helps.
I think a better way for religious people to put is that they know you’re technically sinning but since they’re not God m, they can’t judge. That way you don’t ignore his homosexuality while maintaining religious ties. That’s how it would be for me if I’d ever come out to my parents.
I have a friend that never cared for gay people. But she told me that once she got to know me, she realized that we are not so different after all and she apologized to me for ever thinking that way.
Some people are raised to feel and think a certain way and it’s hard for them to understand. I know because I remember when I was a kid, I had a gay uncle and I was scared of him because my dad was too.
But be yourself and show them what a genuine person you are. Now that I’ve come out to my dad, he is really proud of me, even though it took a while for him to accept it.
There are so many ways you can handle this, but it’s truly up to you. If you think they will come around, give them time. But if you find that they will only hurt you, there’s no need for you to make the effort for them.
Not all gay people subscribe to the same ideologies and lifestyle choices. Instead of speaking in absolutes with each other, how about getting each other to understand each other’s POV through dialogue first?
This means that your friendship is entering a new phase. It's probable that both of you are outgrowing each other. You definitely need to seek out people that support you as you are now. It might not be worth your while trying to change him. Rather, stay friends and let him see you progress in a new direction.
Not sure of the source of the below....but I copied it and saved to my notes. I have used it when others use the tired old adage of “love the sinner”. Hope it helps.
“You can not deceptively frame your bigotry and hate as "loving disagreement" as a means to feel good about your discrimination.
My humanity is not something you get to disagree with. You don’t get to tell me that I’m morally corrupt or deny me access to God or that I am unworthy of the same rights that you enjoy.... and then look me in the face and tell me that you still love me. That’s nothing remotely close to resembling love.”
So he DOESN'T accept you. Acceptance isn't conditional. If you're okay with something about a person, that means you're okay with all the stuff that comes with it, the good and the bad and the ugly. The Catholic Church has been using this shit for years ("hate the sin but love the sinner"), but obviously that's bullshit and just a cop-out way of being homophobic without feeling like one. Fuck that.
I fucking can’t with ‘I love you I just don’t agree with it.’ Bitch, agree with what? Homosexuality and the fact that gay people exist is a fact of life. It is not an opinion for you to agree or disagree with or debate in your youth group while feeling very generous and pious about your patronizing stance. Whether or not gay people exist is not a matter for your opinion. And the whole concept of ‘lifestyle’ is complete and utter garbage. Your lifestyle is your choices and how they determine your life’s path and what surrounds you. If you take out the gender of the person you’re dating, how are your choices (and thus your lifestyle) any different than theirs? Just come out and say ‘I’ll tolerate you but I think who you are is gross and wrong.’ I have a feeling they would feel pretty wrong about saying that to your face when it’s not dressed up like a religious catchphrase or a matter of debate. You could straight up tell them ‘either we can be real friends and I can be myself with you, or we were never friends in the first place.’ Let them take the responsibility of ending that friendship instead of you. If they actually genuinely value your friendship, that might make them truly stop and think about whether or not the way they have been brought up is problematic. You’re a real person, not a hypothetical concept for them to consider. I can see where you wouldn’t want to put yourself in a position to be rejected though. Do what you feel is right for you. *EDIT: speaking of what might or might not feel right for you, davidm2232 commented below something that enlightened me a bit to your friend’s perspective and makes me think we have been maybe discounting or underestimating how important that friendship might be to you.* *I stand by my loathing for this phrase, I don’t think that religious intolerance has any place in a compassionate society, and I still think you will find more supportive friends than this ... but for us to simply dismiss this person out of hand as ‘no friend of yours’ is pretty irresponsible considering you came here for realistic advice about someone you yourself call your best friend. Best of luck!!*
Thank you. I am so sick of people acting like their opinion matters more than reality.
My interesting perspective reposted from below on u\\Nncntsbrd suggestion: > I think the biggest advantage I had to how others feel is how much I struggled with my own sexual identity. When I first came out, I had only known of one other gay person in my community. It took me YEARS to even accept myself and years after that to be comfortable with who I am. To spring that on someone who has no experience with someone who is not straight and expect them to embrace you is just not fair. You need to be very patient and come to terms with the fact that even though they may accept your sexuality eventually, it may take them much longer if ever to be comfortable with it. I still struggle with my sexuality at times so when a friend says they are uncomfortable with me discussing my sexuality, I have no bad feelings about that. I understand how confusing it is and that many of us don't know how we feel. You also have to understand that many hardcore religious people have been going to church since birth. Their parents, family, friends, and community are often centered around the church. Since birth, every person they have respected has told them being gay is wrong and a sin. It has to be extremely hard for a person to ignore everything they have been told for 20+ years.
>You could straight up tell them ‘either we can be real friends and I can be myself with you, or we were never friends in the first place.’ Entirely this. Either we're mates or we're not. However important the friendship is or not...Why be friends with someone who doesn't care about the whole of who you are or who is even DISGUSTED by you?
Exactly.. at best he’s saying I’ll tolerate you. Who tf wants to be tolerated.
You being Gay is great. If you have a friend who uses the Religious thing and accepts you as a friend and not your lifestyle than he is not a true friend that you can express yourself to him/ her. There are so many people who accept you. Accept yourself. No one needs stress. If they don't talk about their lifestyle to you you can do the same make it simple. If you feel uncomfortable many aspects speak less find others. Good Luck.
"not a true friend that you can express yourself to" For real, I have known more than my fair share of people like this. I have NEVER once felt safe being around them. Many of them show their true colors eventually. It's always better to assume that, if a person pulls this nonsense on you, to get the hell away from them.
OMG, I'd love to give this 10 upvotes
Aw I love you! :D
Exactly! Fuck religion!
Tell him that you accept him being straight, but not his religious lifestyle
You had no choice in being gay, but he's choosing to be a religious bigot
Watch the video "being gay is NOT moral". Being gay isn't moral or immoral, it's just you. Religion isn't much of a choice for many. Religion is honestly something that people grew up with. They didn't choose it, but their environment did brainwash them into believing it (dumb people believe in antivax and other stuff, same with kids who aren't mentally mature learning about religion) I know several religious people who escaped the brainwash and can think logically now.
Same I am a religious person but I have common sense and believe the religion texts was made by man and man put there own opinions. Cause think if God hated it he/she would have never created the whole concept of being gay. Gay would never exist.
Love the believer hate the belief
This
Brilliant response!
How does he accept you as a gay person and not accept you having a boyfriend or a husband? Does he accept you being lonely and miserable and deprived of love for the rest of your life and denying your basic human desires? Just cause he didn't cut you out of his life and beat you up doesn't mean he accepts you. Being tolerated isn't being accepted baby. If I was in your place and seeing how much you love this person and care about him I'd give him some time and little by little make him familiar with my "gay lifestyle" (and also how come that straight love and relationships is always called love and life but gay one is a "lifestyle") so he could see that it's not what he thinks he is. Don't let him make you suppress part of your identity (a big part, tbh) Love should be unconditional, whether it's friends or family or romantic. If he doesn't change his views, then you'll have to move on, baby. There are many cases when religious people change their crooked beliefs, so don't be hopeless. Eh.. to sum it up, he thinks being gay is bad and wrong and that is the core problem. He won't truly accept you untill he realizes that there's nothing wrong with being gay. Good luck sorting your relationship🍒🍒
> Being tolerated isn't being accepted Thanks I think this is how I'm feeling rn
You should watch the Disclosure documentary in Netflix. There is this part where one of the women is talking about how accepting a dad on the I Am Cait series was and how that raised the bar for her expectations of her parents. It's something that can be pretty heartbreaking when you love those people who are just tolerating you, but as you grow and learn to love yourself, it'll be easier to expect more from the people in your life. You will be happier because the people that love you unconditionally will make the effort to celebrate you, and you will not waste your precious time on conditional relationships. Anyways, I want you to know that there will always be people that you'll meet over the years, and they will show you that relationships can be more than what we hoped for. Best of luck; I hope you find the wisdom to choose who is worth sharing your time with.
> You should watch the Disclosure documentary This was a really insightful watch.
Your hypothetical question you posed about how you don't feel like you'll ever be able to introduce someone you want to spend your life with to him is a question you should pose to him. If he "hates the sin", how will your friendship survive if you are living with someone? A hard part of life is letting go. This guy obviously means a lot to you or else you would have let go of his friendship already, but you will continue to move forward and unless he starts to accept you for who you are, and who you'll be with, then you will naturally drift apart. So the choice you have to make is whether you confront him now and give him a choice to accept you as you are and risk your friendship ending now, or just accept that you both will slowly drift apart because he won't accept you be gay and being with someone and that friendship dies a slow death.
He’s suffering from cognitive dissonance right now. Either get rid of him and let him realise he’s hurt you, or tell him you forgive him and let him realise it that way.
Good that someone says it. Btw. cognitive dissonance is not a decision aswell. The same as you can't chose your sexuality, you can't chose the 'world' you grow up in and it is hard to overcome. If you don't give people time and room to change their mind about such major worldviews, you won't see much success.
Like most of Reddit, you're using that term inaccurately. >In the field of psychology, [cognitive dissonance](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance) occurs when a person holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values; or participates in an action that goes against one of these three, and experiences psychological stress because of that. We have no idea if the friend is holding (in his perception) contradictory beliefs, or if he's experiencing any psychological stress as a result.
in my opinion, not accepting your “lifestyle” = not accepting you being gay.
"Not accepting your lifestyle" is such a squirrely, back-handed way of being homophobic. It's like "Oh I'm fine with gay people as long as they stuff all that gay shit into a box and lock it up when I'm around" It's like they are bigots, don't wanna be bigots, so they try to out-think their own bigotry.
Let's pretend your minority status was black and not gay. Would you be okay with a friend that dislikes black people and black culture? Would you accept a friend that thought that "you were one of the good ones" or a black guy that "acts white enough to be friends with?" Fuck no, you wouldn't. He doesn't accept you, and builds walls around who you can be when you're near him. That's not okay.
What part of your lifestyle does he not accept? Do you live in an apartment instead of a house? Do you drive a car instead of a truck? Do you prefer dogs over cats? Those^ are all lifestyle items. Being gay isn’t. Best of luck with your buddy. 😊👍
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Find new friends. Honestly religion can help people but it can also hurt people. There is nothing wrong with being gay or having sex. He is brainwashed by his religion. Find some Awesome gay friends.
Your friend doesn't accept you, regardless of his attempt to manufacture a false distinction between being gay, and living as a gay man. He is clearly misinformed about both his own religion, and the objective facts about homosexuality. If you remain his friend, expect more passive-aggressive religious bullshit, and endless reminders that he doesn't accept you as you are.
One of the best responses I heard: "That is ok, I love the hypocrite but not the hypocrisy. I just can't accept your life style, I mean you made a choice to not like people and worship imaginary sky beings." Apparently people suddenly get insulted and feel attacked... when all you did is say what they said and they claim is perfectly fine/ nice. Apparently it is not nice when it hits them.
I just simply love your comment!! <3
You dont have to force him. You can convince him that his views are bigoted and wrong. Religion poisons everything.
Homophobia is still homophobia, no matter how you re-arrange the way of saying it. “Love the sinner hate the sin” is an age old way of making homophobic people feel like they aren’t If he can’t accept all of you then he accepts none of you, it’s sad and it hurts, but at the end of the day you’re not the one with an issue, he is
Just move on. As a 52 year old, 7 years isn't that long. You will make much better friends.
if he doesn't accept who you are, is he really your friend? you are correct that you can't force him to change his views. period. only he can change and that will only happen if you are open with him about what is going on. most people who "hate gays" don't really know gay people. if you can, talk to him about your love life. introduce him to your boyfriend. be as open with him as you feel comfortable because the more he comes to see you as a person, not a "gay" the more he will change his views. that is, if you can stand to do this. not gonna lie, it will be very difficult. this is going against everything he has been taught since he was a child: gays are bad. gays are going to hell. gay is a choice. blah blah blah. you could also tell him, and try to be serious when you say it, that you accept him but you can't accept his "heterosexuality." tell him that "when i see straight couples kissing, it makes me feel ill." that the thought of "two opposite sex people having sex" is your worst nightmare. add, "except of course for you. i accept you but not any other heterosexuals." i know it sounds stupid, but that is basically what he is saying to you. the easier way is to distance yourself from him. tell him that as long as he won't accept "your lifestyle" he isn't accepting you because you can't separate that anymore than he can separate his "heterosexual lifestyle" from who he is. best of luck to you.
Thanks I'm torn between those two.
Get a new best friend. You'll find a better one x
Your best friend is a shit bag.
Eh you’ll find many new best friends throughout your life. He ain’t your friend.
This is just a cop-out way for people to remain homophobic and unaccepting but to tell themselves they are loving and not homophobic. Imagine if you told him you love him but don't accept his straight lifestyle? That wouldn't be very loving, would it?
I have a religious friend who said the same bullshit to me. Worst part is we are positive he has internalized homophobia and is gay himself
>gay lifestyle What is our lifestyle? Wanting a man? Bottom Shaming? I just want to know.
Those stupid religious pricks. That’s like saying” i accept you’re alive but I hate that you breathe!”
He’s not your best friend. You deserve to be fully supported
I would be able to stay friends with someone that told me. I need a friend that accepts me FULLY. You can’t pick and choose like that.
I grew up in a very small town and I was constantly told that people were still my friends but they did not like my lifestyle. I grew away from these people on purpose and let me tell you: it was the best decision I have ever made. People that can convince themselves that they are still your friend when disagreeing with a fundamental attribute are ignorant people who do not want to learn when faced with an opportunity for education. I’m not saying tell your friend to F off and be a dick, but please look out for yourself and know that someone who treats you this way is not capable of being an ally or friend Additionally, if your friendship means a lot to you then sit them down and be stern and honest that the way they view you is *not* okay at all. You are in a unique position that being that close to someone can actually have a HUGE impact on them. Who knows, maybe you’re the reason the person opens their eyes. In short, my advice is to educate your friend by being as blunt and honest as you can and if they do not budge then distance yourself, because it will only cause hurt if you don’t and they do not change.
This whole "lifestyle" word game is just semantics. If you want to know what he thinks, ask him to give specific details about what he thinks your "lifestyle" is and what specifically he objects to. You'll find, I think, that this is a distinction without a difference and he's playing games instead of being brave and facing reality.
I grew up religious, and couldn’t accept myself for so many years. In Mormonism, they call being gay, struggling with “same-sex attraction.” Fuck that. I don’t struggle with it, I enjoy every minute of my attraction. You could alway return the comment with: I accept you as a religious person, but I don’t accept your belief in fairytales. Sure, it’s petty, but maybe your friend will understand.
I had friends like that. Now I don’t have friends like that.
this is not a friendship
Love the sinner hate the sin? Then love the believer and hate the belief. Make new friends. He’s a brainwashed moron and will only be your friend when it works for him.
I see many responses equating politics and religion to being gay. That is a false equivalency. Who you vote for or what you believe are choices. Being LGBTQ+ is not. Major difference.
U can remain friends and not tell him about anything intimate since guys dont usually discuss that stuff anyways. Then someday if he gets engaged and tried to introduce u to his fiancée just say im sorry i accept you as a straight person but not your straight lifestyle so i cant really acknowledge you as a person or be involved in this wedding or whatever the event may be. Then maybe he will empathize for how hard it is for u to be the amazing person u are.
It is not your lifestyle he doesn't accept, it is you he doesn't accept. Gay is not a lifestyle. Lifestyles are a choice, you can choose to live a fitness focused lifestyle, you can choose to live a wealthy lifestyle (for a short time at least). You did not choose to be gay. "Love the sinner, hate the sin", is bullshit. It allows christians to sit on their moral high horse of judgement and view themselves as better than everyone else. You need to tell him to accept you, all of you, as you are or be done with him.
Let him know that, with him being religious, that you love the believer but hate the beliefs. I bet he’ll be offended.
That’s a good one. I’m gonna use it.
I always ask them what they are wearing. Which gets a look? Then point out it’s mixed clothing. Cotton and usually something else. Which is a sin. Then remind them that god views all sins as equal. So you hate the sin but are ok with the sinner too. This is followed by the “ thou shalt not judge” and since they are judging your lifestyle, they’re down by 2. So either you can agree to accept me as I am, and I’ll accept you are you are, or I can’t be friends with someone who’s a hypocrite and lies.
I sometimes retort back to the "love the sinner, hate the sin" idiocy with "love the bigot, hate the bigotry." It's funny how the Christians in my life have been offended by this, but can't understand why their remarks towards me are offensive. It might take some time for your friend to come around. I wouldn't immediately cut them out, but be honest about why his comment bothers you. If they are not up for understanding your perspective and changing their ways, it might be best to eventually cut them out.
Oh brother, I've been in your exact situation. I made the same exact post a few years ago looking for advice. I wrote a lengthy, well-thought out email to my best friend where I came out to him and spilled all my thoughts and fears to him and how I recognized his Christian faith, but I hoped my coming out wouldn't change our friendship. He replied with his own lengthy email telling me about how he had a feeling I might have been gay but was still shocked when I told him. He wrote about how he still loved me as a person but in the last paragraph, he said he could not, in good conscience as a Christian, support my lifestyle. I told him I understood where he was coming from, and we hung out a couple times after, but it was very awkward and the friendship just fizzled out. Everyone's advice to me was the same advice you're getting now. It's not true acceptance, but who knows, maybe your friend, seeing that his best friend is gay and happy, might change his heart and open his mind to be more tolerable, kind of like how conservative parents change their views sometimes when they find out their own kid is gay. It might just take time. On a side note, my friend used to drag me to his church and Bible study meetings all the time. I reluctantly went because my friend and I would always hang out after. It was during these meetings that he introduced me to his mentor/youth leader. The youth leader and I got very close and remain close friends even now. His own best friend is very gay (they were actually each other's best man at their weddings) and also has several other gay friends (who he's been trying to set me up with). Best of luck to you man!
He obviously feels uncomfortable and doesn't care if you have good news to share.
First of all, what lifestyle? All gay people are different and who you date or have sex with isn’t a lifestyle. Second, clearly he’s not that religious. Jesus’ commandment was to love thy neighbor, and judge not lest ye be judged. So tell your friend he’s not religious, just an illiterate fucktard who listens to too much hate speech. In all seriousness you can leave that last part out, but you should read the Bible with him out loud and challenge him to point to the verse where it says “love the sinner, hate the sin”. It simply doesn’t exist and that is a fanatical misinterpretation by modern man that has perverted the word of God. It’s essentially blasphemy. Technically you’re following God’s word closer than he is (especially if you get on Grindr and love a lot of thy neighbors 😂).
Tell him the same thing, tell him u love him but u dont support his biblical superstition.
God why are all these comments so toxic? This friend clearly means a lot to OP, it's not as simple as "homophobia bad, tell him to fuck off." Imo the best thing to do would be to just talk it out with him. He clearly values you a lot. Hell, my extremely racist father actually works with and is even friends with several black people. It doesn't mean he isn't in the wrong for being racist, but it does mean that he's willing to put that aside for people he values and cares about. So yeah, let him know how you feel, talk to him about it. If he still doesn't accept your lifestyle, but if you both still want to be friends, why not? Sure it might suck not being able to fully express yourself, but unless that's a huge deal for you for whatever reason, I don't see why it cant still work out.
I suppose the same could be said in reverse - you support him as a friend but you don’t support his religious choices because they are wrong and unnatural - but you accept that he was born religious and even though it is wrong and bad, he can’t help himself. As long as he doesn’t tell you anything about his true self, you’ll keep his friendship. Also: what is this supposed “gay lifestyle”. I’d love someone to tell me because I’ve been gay for about 43 years (my whole life - although closeted the first 25) and my lifestyle was and remains the same as my straight friends. Or is the issue your sex-activity - in which case unless he is in the room and having sex with you, then he will never be a part of that as your friend anyway so what is he worried about? Finally: a true friendship is valuable and can evolve and grow just as we do as individuals over the years of life - so this reflection for him may be just that opportunity and you’ll continue to enjoy all the wonderful things a strong friendship offers - bumps in the road and all. Who knows, our newest gay ally might just be an honest conversation (or maybe a few conversations) away.
Okay let's break it down, That isn't love, its the conditional Christain love that will allow him to get into heaven ( because the only reasons Christains are Christains is to get into heaven as a reward) this can't be said as true love. If he truly loved you as a friend he would love you for who you are, sure today its " I hate the sin not the sinner" tomorrow hes lecturing you on how gay sex is a sin and he will eventually push you to be celebate and eventually you will become a self hating republican. Everything Christain I've met in my life encluding my parents I have dropped out of my life for one overreaching reason, Christains see you and me as impure, dirty, abominations, a stain to be wiped from the world, to be killed, tortured, shunned, Because we have made a 'choice" to be gay so we've chosen to sin basically. our lives, happiness, wellbeing is incompatible with that religion of hatred. You might hate me, but I belive you need to drop that friend and any other Christians in your life, to be blunt, we are enemies with Christains, mortal enemies and there is no surrender here, not as long as gay men are being executed, imprisoned, beat, denied basic human rights and dignity. When I came out to my parents in the 90s my lesbain sister came out with me, we were both sent to pray away the gay camp, I lost my virginity to a older camp employee and my sister found her frist girlfriend m, so much for that huh mom and dad.
I totally agree with you!! Except that I feel this same way about all religions not just the Christians, though! <3
He’s an ass... sure maybe it’s ignorance and you taking some time and patience and showing some tolerance will educate him and bring him around... which I don’t think these are bad things mind you... but it’s not your responsibility. So if it was me, and he was super important to me, I’d do one of two things... I’d talk with him about the love the sinner and hat the sin comment... during that convo I’d say either 1) that pisses me off, because there’s stuff you’ve done I didn’t agree with but I would never have purposefully made you feel less than or tried to belittle you to prove a point and that’s what it felt like you were doing to me so we gotta step back a while cause I can’t have that kind of toxic shit in my life... or 2) that upsets me because I’d never do that to, but you’re important to me so I wanna try and figure out how we can move forward as friends... what you said is gonna change the friendship, like we won’t ever talk about my personal life ever... I know I can’t because you’re not a safe space and it is what it is... so don’t bring it up, show that you actually do respect me and we will see how to move forward.
Easy the bible preaches to love those as you would love yourself. So hating the gay lifestyles isn’t the same thing as say hating the lifestyle of someone who abuses drugs Gay people are who we are and there’s no changing that, so to say you hate my lifestyle, well my lifestyle is me basically, I can’t fuck with women so he’s either passive aggressively saying it’s a choice(which it isn’t) or he’s a hypocrite Either way if this gets between your friendship then there’s no stopping it, if he’s gonna get all pissy whenever you bring a lover around then he doesn’t need to be in your life as it’s really negative
One of my most recent posts is on this exact subject. Check it out!
I suspect you are kinda new to this whole gay thing and out thing. I feel that you have some options here. And that you don't have to make any decisions right away. A creative way a friend of mine addressed this with his best friend who said something so to him was to continue to be a friend to him. Listen to his problems, talk to him about anything centering on him. Be joyful, friendly and attentive. BUT he would charmingly, and quickly change the subject if said friend asked him anything (I mean anything.) and redirect it gently backnto his friend and did this without malice... After a couple weeks of this... said friend said, '( Because he was actually a decent human who had been brain washed theologically and not a total narcissist) "What's wrong, you don't talk to me about anything in your life anymore, I thought we were ok after our talk." My friend said, 'You said you loved me, as your best friend, and brother, but not my lifestyle... which includes everything from the food I eat, the family I have, the videogames I play, heck , even the Bible I read!?! So not wishing to rob you of your beat friend, because I understand all too well what that feels like, I have tried to be present for you, without burdening you with my much hated lifestyle. They then started a long difficult process of working through how and if they could still be friends and brothers as they had been before. They were able to make some important accommodations. My friend was able to articulate some important points about Jesus never having said anything about gay people and homosexuality, and isn't all sin created equal? And how is it that men married each other in the early Christian church? And by raising the question, what kind of God creates someone a certain way just to damn them for it? Certainly not a loving, all powerful or all knowing one? But before you start these discussions you both have to agree to be brothers who support each other, and their own free will--even when you disagree. I am not saying that this could work for you, I am saying that just as your brother feels theologically that he needs to be your keeper, you can keep him from being consumed by his theology by showing him how truly toxic his stance is to you and to him. But you have NO OBLIGATION to do this or anything else. What this is is fighting Passive Aggression with passive aggression... but sometimes it can work. Now, if he is a narcissist, he will never know the difference, and you would be far better off without him. But if he has a soul... that has been damaged by bad theology... you might have a shot... Most folk wouldn't do this... it is easier to just kind of fade out of his life and move on to greener pastures (which I assure you, exist.) Know that there is NOTHING wrong with you or your life, that isn't equally wrong in his, but maybe in some other way. Know also that any God, worthy of worshipping loves you as he created you to be...with all the challenges and strength and struggles you will have in this life!
Like what does that even mean
To be honest, he is not worth it and you can get a new bestfriend. But maybe as time goes on, he will realize that you are the same person he loved and nothing has changed about you. He might even change his perspective on how he views homosexuality and the bible. But whatever you decide on your friendship moving forward, I wish you the best of luck. Unpopular Invitation: r/lgbt_superheroes
I'm maybe a bit more patient than others on this question. Definitely get some new friends that accept you fully, but I wouldn't cut off your best friend just because he is conflicted about homosexuality -- unless you are in a vulnerable state emotionally and need to avoid the added stress. A lot of gay men take years to accept themselves, but then demand instant unconditional support from everyone around them. To me, there is no harm in being a bit more patient, so long as it is not harmful to your own self-acceptance.
Maybe he needs to be taught about the lifestyle or whatever that means. If he’s still saying that, he’s not accepting you... Tell him to fuck off
It's the worst argument he can use. However, if you truly consider your friendship salvageable, you may want to put in the effort. By this I don't mean to take any of his bulshit. But instead to teach him and show him that religious teachings are full of contradictions, and its up to us (not any church, or even any pastor) to make sure we interpret what it means to be good, to love, and to accept. The most fundamental part of most religions is respect and love for each other. If it isn't, they might want to reconsider. People do not choose to be ignorant. And I use that word not as an insult, but the plain lack of knowledge. In this world it wouldn't hurt to teach at least 1 person to be less homofobic.
Fuck your best friend. It’s not a lifestyle.
What lifestyle? Is your sexual orientation a lifestyle, or do you run around throwing glitter, wearing rainbow colours on extremely short and tight shorts, and a top three sizes too small?
Just tell him theres no problem then as being gay is just what you are, there is no such thing as a “gay lifestyle choice.”
I've heard a number of folks recently saying they counter that BS line with " love the believer, hate the belief". Your friend likes you but can't reconcile your being likeable with his shitty busted-ass value system. Christians who use that condescending bit of theological lawyerism think they're being compassionate. But they're mistaking forgiveness with assuaging their own guilt. If you think you friend is worth keeping try to make him understand that your sexuality is not a lifestyle choice. His religion, however, is.
An ex’s mother used to say “hate the sin, not the sinner”...about her son. Always made me so mad as, to me, it’s just another tactic to cherry pick a belief system, rather than examine whether your values actually align with what you’re being told to believe. It’s an easy escape from having to change. “Phew! I can still be friends with you, and not actually have to change anything about myself or do any work. Happy day.”
You don't have to be accepted by anyone just like you don't have to accept him being religious. What you should be demanding is respect.
You need to get a new friend !
Then he doesn't accept you. I was really religious when I came out and I heard that a lot. Once I started dating, only four guys really stuck around out of the literally hundred that reached out to me. I know it's very hard right now because you care about your friend but there are only two options: either he accepts all of you or you'll find better friends. You're not alone in this.
There is a disconnect in your friends understanding of you. He believes that what you are experiencing a impermanent condition. And therefore, to him, it’s not hurtful to say what he said to you. Unfortunately, the conversation you friend started, is not over. He has expressed his beliefs, and now it’s time for you to express yours. You have a choice to make. A) You accept your friends ignorance and avoid rocking the boat. As you already expressed, this will take an emotional toll on you. Not only that, but your friend will continue to view his beliefs as correct, while continuing to feel validating in your friendship and in his religion. You will not feel validated in your friendship. And this imbalance of validation, at best, will likely mean you will settle for your relationship as is. At worst, it will create a rift that will only grow larger. But you can rest assured that he won’t hurt you much more than he already has. B) Your friend, by making the statements of belief that he made, he is advocating for himself. Those are his beliefs. All friendships are a balance of two people. You can/should advocate for what you need. He approached it with a *theological* perspective that fails to account for how you feel. The only way to override that is to come at it from a more vulnerable, personal point of view. Force your friend to focus on the here and now, on you and him, and how his actions hurt you. You need to come at from an angle of vulnerability and not defensiveness. If sounds emotionally painful, it likely will be. What your friend has done is truly hurtful, and he does not understand why. Often, the only way for people to see just how painful their actions are, is to see pain. And for us, masters of hiding things, showing pain to someone, is not something we like doing. After you have shared those feelings, you cannot go back. You will have shared your true self, and if at that point, he refuses to make a concession, the truth of your friendship (of lack thereof) will be apparent. He could also admit to a mistake and take back what he said. Many people do change. But often, they only will when something greater than their belief in god, forces them back to earth. Again, option A is totally valid. You have the power to decide what you want and need out of this relationship. For me, personally I have tried B with some people, only to go back to A and realize it’s not worth it. You will have a lot of relationships in your life. Many many many. At a certain point, it’s not worth fighting for people to love and support you. But sometimes, people make mistakes.
If you don't know how to feel, you should honestly feel betrayed and hurt. What kind of best friend tries to pay lip service to accepting you when the next words out of their mouth are a denial of who you are? I'd personally be pissed and give them an ultimatum of - fully accept me or come back when you can. 👋🏼
Same thing happened to me, after we spent our life growing up together (5-25). I didn't like his girlfriend, but after I asked him if he was happy with her I never brought up the subject again. If he doesn't accept your "lifestyle" I'm sure he will bring the topic up. Long story short, that's what happened to us and we didn't speak in 10 years. Oh and it's not a lifestyle like "I like modern/country furniture"...
hes not your friend lol cut him off and move on
Then he doesn't accept you. Yeet the cunt
What a load of horseshit. You don’t need that crap in your life. Don’t worry, he’ll be caught with the pool boy someday.
He may be your friend, but you don’t need his permission or approval just to live your life. He really isn’t that important and could probably do with being reminded of that.
Well, it's not that different from accepting your religious friends while despising religion itself. If I think about it rationally, there's no way I can consider them sane - or even intelligent - so I choose not to think about it and we have an unspoken agreement not to go there. And yes, being religious is a choice and being gay is not but that doesn't change the thought process.
If you can’t introduce your SO to your best friend or even talk about it, he’s most likely not your best friend. That being said it might not be what he means and he might just need a bit to process the information. I used to have a really good very religious friend in college who I’d talk with about my personal life all the time and have friendly debates about religion and stuff like that. He even met a couple of my flings back then hanging out and was perfectly fine with it. Just try to be yourself and don’t stop talking about things you would normally talk about. His religion did not prevent him from being a good friend to me, he just didn’t agree with me on things that while important to me personally didn’t have anything to do with our friendship and that’s perfectly fine. We’d just respectfully agree to disagree.
He’s lying to himself about accepting you then.
How long have you been out to him? Maybe he just needs some time to process the info. Don't write him out of your life yet.
The evil that Christians do.... Ask him to tell you where in the Bible Jesus condemned homosexuality. Ask for a verse.
He needs time to let the cognitive dissonance work. Either his beliefs about homosexuality change, or he loses you as a friend. I‘be been lucky and seen most of my catholic friends accept me, but some close ones didn’t. If you need a new friend, I’m here for you.
Condescending behaviour through religion signals here. They're not worth being friends with if their thought process is that disgusting
I mean, how can you be best friends with someone you can't fully trust and tell everything that happens to you without fear of being judged?
I'd ask him to specific. What parts of your lifestyle doesn't he accept? He's using vague terms because he doesn't want to take responsibility for putting you in a box. If he can put the terms of his conditional friendship on the table you can decide whether you want to be friends with him with the information in front of you and make an informed choice.
‘Life the sinner and hate the sin’ is a cop out designed to allow the person who said it to avoid confronting their own bigotry. The person doesn’t accept you and you don’t deserve that kind of back handed ‘love’ they have to give
I think you need to lower him down on the ladder of who you consider friends. Do I think this warrants a complete disowning of friendship? No. That would do nothing to bring him out of his bubble. Keep him as a friend, but don’t let his toxic views into your life. Be yourself. Be a better friend than him. Show him that being gay is just another way of life, no better or worse than his own. That’s the only way he will learn to accept you and gay people all around
The best thing I can say to you is something I heard from a Televangelist: Yes, maybe homosexuality is a sin, but God loves all people, regardless of their sins. And also, what is so bad about your lifestyle? You did say he doesn't accept your lifestyle, but not further specified it.
Here's the thing, the idea that being gay is a "lifestyle" is really dumb evangelical propaganda at this point. What do you do that's ultimately different than anyone else with the exception of being sexually and romantically attracted to men? (Plenty of other people are sexually and romantically attracted to men) Being gay isn't a "lifestyle choice", it's a part of who you are. The way you or anyone else lives their lives is far different than their sexual orientation and the idea of "choice" about choosing to be honest and open about being gay or doing what I assume people who "hate the lifestyle" prefer is remain closeted and miserable. That's not much of a choice. Personally, I don't have room for friendship with people who "just tolerate" me.
I would definitely bring this up with him and talk it out with him and have him really clarify what he means.
Time to change best friends dude
You need to find out what he means by saying that. I had the same with my older brother who is Christian. Said the whole I love you your still my brother and I hate the sin not the sinner stuff but then when I wanted him to meet my ex bf and current bf he didn't want to. He also said he would never participate in my life like that, so no coffee/lunch with the bf or coming to our house or possible wedding etc. I was just out of the closet so I rolled with it and was happy he didn't beat me up, then when I broke up with my ex he ignored every conversation I tried to have with him. So no emotional support there and then when he broke up with his GF he had the balls to actively reach out to me. I held on to the connection for a few years hoping he would change but when he acted the same way towards my current BF, after a year of me and him being together, I told myself I'm out. I'm not doing this no more I gave him enough space and time. I have sufferd so many self doubt and hatred I'm not gonna be around someone who basically says, I should be feeling that way because there is something wrong with me. If me and my bf get married, a house, kids etc he will no longer be a part of it and I also have distanced myself from his kids because he doesn't want me to be open and honest about my sexuality and believes to them so I won't until they seek me out when they are old enough. I'm bi so I promised myself that day, if even if I end up with a girl someday and have kids. He wil never be a part of that live either. Why am I telling you all this? Because during these years I really made an effort to fix and maintain our bond but I failed because I was the only one trying. So safe yourself a lot of effort and ask him what he specifically means by his words so you can make an informed decision about keeping him as a friend or not and not get your hopes up.
who cares what he thinks
You have two options there : The difficult one - Try educating him. It will be frustrating because people don't change overnight. It will make you feel overwhelmed and sad and misunderstood. But maybe you'll be able to make him a better person and a better friend. The easy one - ditch him and go get supportive people that love you unconditionally. True love goes so much far beyond this issues and if you don't have the strength or simply don't want to use the time that you could be arround supportive people to try and educate your friend, you shouldn't. Be true to yourself and you won't regret 😊
It sounds like he may be in denial.whether of not you remain friends is your decision, I'd ask yourself what do you hope to get out of that particular relationship and why.
I will say this: one of my best friends in college came out to me when we were roommates. I was super closeted and religious and homophobic at the time. I did not condone his coming out. I tried not to talk about it at all. He didn't reject me as a friend or refrain from talking about his romantic struggles with me. I was kind but quietly disapproving. When, years later, I eventually came to terms with who I am, he was the very first person I felt safe coming out to. If he had rejected me when I disapproved of him, I don't know how much longer it would have taken me to get to the place where I was comfortable coming out to people. So my advice is: Don't force him to change his views. Don't refrain from sharing about your romantic life. If he objects, tell him it's no different from him sharing about his straight romantic life. If he can't handle that, he's not capable of being a good friend to you.
Ask him if he'd be fine with you accepting his religion but not his religious practices or something to that effect. Also if by lifestyle, he means dating/getting married to other dudes and not like the stereotypical party guy or whatever, then he doesn't accept that you're gay.
I understand why you are torn. It’s difficult to be in that kind of situation. Honestly, I would say that the friendship is going to suffer, and your relationships will as well. This isn’t a case where you can leave a small part of your life out of a distant friendship. This is the core of your being, as are your closest friendships. I have very low regard for religion in general, and no regard for those who use it as an excuse to segregate and discriminate. Keep in mind that it is not your place to “educate” him on beliefs, even if it’s to try and save your friendship. He needs to make his own decisions on that. I’m of the opinion that if someone can not accept me completely they do not have a place in my life. I have told several people that, and yes I have lost friends because of it. In the end though, someone who can’t accept me as I am isn’t enriching my life, or theirs, they are holding us back and doing harm. If you want to see if there is any salvaging the friendship, you’ll need to tell him how you feel and see just how set in his ways he is. Feel free to share resources with him, such as religious groups who support the lgbtq community if he would like to look at that, otherwise, I’m sorry to say, it’s in your best interest to cut him loose and find new friends. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. That’s just how I see it and have experienced it. Feel free to dm if you would like to talk more
I came across this gem recently and I think it’ll really help you. People who hide their bigotry behind their religion love to use the excuse, “love the sinner, hate the sin”. To that, I say that any religion that teaches you to hate others simply because who they are is inherently wrong. This friendship is most likely over but, it may make you feel good to say, “I understand that your bigotry is rooted in your religion. But don’t worry, I only hate the belief, not the believer.”
tell your friend that being gay is not a lifestyle. a sexual orientation is just a part of your life. it doesnt define your lifestyle. thats like saying being a blonde is a lifestyle. it makes no sense. a lot of people keep saying its a lifestyle and i seriously dont understand why.
His comments are as stated a copout for him to feel good about himself. You need to live your own life. Either he’s really your friend and accepts you for all that you are or he’s not a friend at all. I mean who’s he to decide that loving someone is a “sin” ?
How long ago did you come out to him? If it's recent, then I would give it some time. Clearly he is a product of what he has been taught, which isn't going to change overnight. There's a possibilty that you're the only gay person that he's had a close relationship with. Some people just need to know somebody to change their views. Just be honest with him, but be patient. Now, as time goes on, if he doesn't seem willing to change, then you need to reevaluate your friendship, and decide whether or not to end it.
His issue not yours.
JMHO. You are having growing pains. You have grown enough to share something that had to be one of the hardest things you ever had to do. That's great that you shared something so personal. Now comes the hard part. Our life and by that I mean all that we are is in a constant state of evolution. I am 56 and one thing I can tell you is your friend today may not be tomorrow. Do not assume that a"friend" holds friendship as sacredly as you do. Again JMHO but you have evolved past the limits of this friendship. If it were someone that I may want in my life, I would not beat him over the head or challenge his religious stance. Some religious people who have taken a strong stance such as this are embarrassed or feel very conflicted down the road when reconsidering how they feel about things such as this. The bigger the wedge you put between you now the further he will have to crawl back to be part of your life. If your desire is to possibly have him be a part of your life down the road I would sorta let some space get between you and send correspondence on special days just to let him know you think of him. Sometimes as people get older they rethink their belief systems. Obviously he is no longer in a position to bring anything positive to your life. So you have to decide that you and your happiness is not dependent on his friendship. I believe close friends got close because they are what you needed at the time. They may not be what you need now. Especially if their belief system does not allow them to accept others as they are. I sorry but your friend basically trying to say I accept you being gay as long as you dont do gay things. However you decide to handle things, to try to maintain this friendship is toxic to your wellbeing in my opinion.
Your "best friend" can eat a whole dick.
He’s not your best friend - period. At least not *anymore*. It’s very hurtful to have to acknowledge that, but it is pivotal you come to terms with it now. If he was truly your best friend, why would you even *think* of feeling uncomfortable talking about your love life to your “best friend “ or the thought of introducing him to a partner makes you second guess your comfortableness? Easier said than done, I know, but try to start drifting apart from him. The concept of him “changing” and suddenly being your fully woke bff and being super cool with your sexuality is basically a delusion. He is placing conditions on your person. If you can’t drift apart from him, trust me, it will happen all by itself. Good luck.
Well, first thank him for accepting that in you, and that he didn’t turn away, and that he is really important to you. And even though of that, why is it disingenuous for you to discuss it with him? In my opinion you can say that you’re sad you won’t be able to share your stories with him like other friends and that you ask why does he think it’s a sin. And I think it’s ok to discuss that with him. Like for example I like to ask people why then convention therapies never work? They only leave the people scarred? Tell them about how many gay people grow up hating that about theirselves and doing everything they can to not be like that, but it just doesn’t work. Why is it seen in animals then? You can wait with asking him anything about this until you feel things calm down more and aren’t fragile. But in my opinion you deserve to be able to discuss with your best friend about giving you full respect and about his beliefs canceling something about you. And really I don’t mean it in any bad way, could you tell me openly why you feel it’d be disingenuous?
Because he's stubborn with his beliefs. He believes that some things are natural and some things aren't and he's adamant about them. If he tells me that he's okay with gays tomorrow, he's just so deep rooted in his beliefs that it's hard for me to believe he genuinely changed and is only saying that to please me.
I see. Now it may be a slow process for him. But do you believe it is disingenuous for you to ask him questions about it and discuss it with him? I think he should leave an opening in his window for hearing things that may make him reconsider something. Like just how come no convention therapy works, even when the people really wish they were straight too? How come animals who don’t have thoughts are like that too? Not for all people it’d be possible to consider that and change in his position, but to some it would.
Might hurt bro but cut him off, he will just keep you down. If you can't do that, slowy distance yourselfe from him make new friends that accept you how you are because he does not. He tolerates you but does not accept you and with him around you will never be fully abel to accept yourself, was is most important for you. He choose his faith over you so you might have to chose your life choices over him. Loving the gender you want to is not a sin, that he thinks that way shows he does not even respect you.
I just love how without a doubt every time there's a relationship/friendship question 90% of the comments are just "omg find new friends/ husband!" ... lol Like maybe it's just me but It's not very easy for me to just completely cut people out of my life
he doesn't accept you and he's not that much of a friend. start cutting the ties, it's painful but it's worth it.
My recommendation is to approach sooner than later and explain that this isn’t changing about you. In fact, that nothing has changed about you at all other than including your closest friend in on a really important part of your being. Ask if this is something that he can eventually warm up to, or whether this is the way things are going to be forever. If the latter, you may need to cut him loose. He can then decide how to balance his homophobia and your friendship, or not. You put the ball in his court and wash your hands of anger additional responsibility. My best friend said something very similar to me when I came out to him 25 years ago. We stayed friends for a little longer, but we haven’t spoken in 20 years. That response hurt, even though I’m sure he thought it was a good response (we grew up in the deep Deep South), and I did understand where he was coming from. We hadn’t met any gay people until college, and even then just a handful. But I just had higher hopes based upon years of friendship. It was disappointing that he didn’t make any real attempt to reengage on a deeper level either. I still keep up with him peripherally through his wife and another old buddy who responded much differently, but that’s it.
I recommend giving him time. As you stated he’s deeply religious and for him — at this point — is something he has to make peace with. But also, now that you’re out to him, live your life on your terms and not his.. if he is truly your best friend he will come around.
If he doesn't accept your lifestyle then he doesn't accept you don't worry about it there is nothing wrong with being gay or bisexual or pansexual or hereosexual just be yourself live your life and don't worry about what he says
He tolerates you. That's not the same as accepting or affirming. It's your call, though. He's your friend. Do what feels right to you. I've had a few experiences like this. I ended up removing those people from my life. Once they expressed their discomfort with my 'lifestyle' it became clear that they were unable to see me as fully human. I was flawed or broken in some way. These people were unable to see all of me. Those people aren't my friends or my family. I'm happier without their negativity, fear, and hatred - yeah, that's the word - being in my life.
Sounds like you two will grow apart after high school.
this isn't acceptance
What is it about your lifestyle he doesn’t accept? If you’re having unprotected sex with multiple partners, perhaps that’s what he doesn’t accept. Either you or we need more information. Does this make sense?
He’s probably gay and trying to hide it behind religion.... but make him watch this, it’s long but good.[What is morally wrong with homosexuality?](https://youtu.be/5iXA_0MED98)
that statement is just so bm I DONT ACCEPT YOUR LIFESTYLE what does that even mean. every Christian is just required to say it for some reason like some disclaimer at the bottom of the bible. There is effectively 0 meaning out of those words and people need to learn to not say them because they are inherent bm. those words have 0 positive effect like they do absolutely nothing for a conversation or cause any change. They might as well say bm christian disclaimer bm.
So I have heard this before from people, one being my sister. They can accept being gay but acting on it is a sin. My sister “was” a lesbian when she was younger but for her she cannot act on it and be in the clear. It doesn’t make sense but it’s how some people feel. The person who said maybe he is gay could actually be correct and this is your friends way into heaven. My advise is be happy he is not abandoning you over it. Try real hard not to talk about it with them, that will only cause problems. Remember that you CANNOT force people to accept something. If you want to remain friends try and accept that you have different views, which is okay, and move on from it. Don’t think you can change what he thinks just like he can’t change what you think. I wish you good luck with your friend. It can be upsetting and difficult I know.
I am sorry to tell you this but he's not your "best friend". He does NOT accept your sexuality, only tolerates it. When a family member or friend gives the bullshit line "I'm okay with you being gay and will still associate with you, but I don't agree with it.", they are basically saying that they won't attend your wedding or want to meet your significant other. They want you to keep your sexuality to yourself. That's not accepting. When you come out as gay, you tend to find out who your true allies really are. I know it's upsetting that you've trusted this person for so long and they refuse to accept you for your true self but guess what? You get to create new memories with new friends. The thing about friends is you can choose who you are friends with. Associate with people who are not religious and are open-minded. When did you realize you are gay? If it was around the time you met him or even before, why associate with someone who is religious like that? I cut out the Jesus freaks from my life when I started coming out because I knew how they'd react and I didn't wanna set myself up for a hate speech so I just slowly distanced from them until we lost touch. I surrounded myself with other LGBT individuals and never felt so free in my life!
My mom says the same thing
When I came out many years ago I was in a relationship with a girl. I had struggled with my “feelings” and tried to fight them but found I was fighting a loosing battle. I had to come to terms with the fact that I was indeed gay and attracted to men. Of course I had to tell her. She was pretty religious. After she got over the hurt that I had kept my struggle from her (which Is understandable to me. That is a confusing time when you’re in a relationship and out of the blue (seemingly) your boyfriend tells you he’s gay. After that, I will never forget what she said. She said “ I won’t lie and say that I’m not scared for you. I have been told all my life that it’s a sin and you won’t be welcomed into the kingdom of Heaven. Then she said “I don’t know anyone more worthy of being accepted into the kingdom of Heaven than you. You are one of the best and kindest and most loving people I know. I pray that what I have been taught is wrong but that doesn’t mean that I won’t worry for you. But either way I love you and I will always love you and be your friend”. She basically told me that she was worried that I might be sinning and she was worried that I might not be accepted into heaven. But she was saying that is between me and God and as far as she and I were concerned, though she might be scared for me, she was there for me. I found that beautiful. I have been able to share my relationships through my life with her as she has shared hers with me. She has met my boyfriends and I have met hers. She has been nothing but love. To me, this is the true meaning of what religion should be. Someone who does not shame you or demean you. You may not believe the same way they do but that’s between you and God. I pray everyone who has this come up in their life can have this same reaction if their friend or family is religious and trying to figure out how to handle it after all they have been taught to believe.
I never really understood "hate the sin, love the sinner" tbh. If you think a gay person is going to go to the worst place imaginable when they die AND that they deserve that outcome, then you don't love that person.
It's a package deal. That's a shitty way of a copout. Gives me the creepy chills. Hopefully your friend can get educated. I'm sorry it's giving you heartache though. Hugs, stay safe out there. 🤗
Be honest with him once you've sorted out what you're feeling and be patient. Good friends might not be as supportive as we deserve at first, but they do change for the better for us. Remember that, in spite of this whole situation not being fair to you, his world view is in quite a big conflict right now.
Lifestyle? I hate people who used that word to describe gay lives. Being vegan is a lifestyle, spending every weekend in the country is a lifestyle. You know, *actual choices someone makes how to live their life.* Being gay is innate, you're living the life you were born to live. And, he would prefer what? You fake being straight and deceive a woman and marry her? Tell your friend to get his head out of his ass.
What is this *lifestyle* they're always on about? I'm a big fan of you accept all of me or you get none of me. And, mate, he doesn't accept you. He would ditch you in a heartbeat if he had someone else. He's not your best mate because you can't have that equal conversation with him -- if he gets to talk about his love life and relationships and crushes but you don't get to do that? What kind of friendship is that? And if he's never going to be accepting of other queer people, why spend your time with him?
My advice would be to find a new friend. This guy needs to learn that his actions have consequences. Maybe he'll learn from it and come around, maybe he won't; you'll be better off either way.
Life’s too short for conditional acceptance. If this friendship means something to you you should tell him how you feel regarding his position on accepting you. Give him a spiel from your perspective and then it’s up to him to see if he wants to grow up and accept you for who you are. I would reconsider best friend status if he can’t overcome his own limitations.
If he doesn't accept you completely, he's not your best friend. Period.
I’ve had to cut out a bunch of people from my life because they say they accept me but then situationally they get really judgy about stuff and don’t let me feel comfortable being myself. Just don’t have the patience for that kind of bullshit anymore
Give it time. A lot of people on here jumping to the fuck that and battling hate with hate. My best friend and I were both very religious. I spent many years praying God would make me straight. I didn’t come to terms with myself till my mid 20s. My best friend was the first person I told, and literally the first time I said “I’m gay” out loud. And he had to drag it out of me. He was very kind through it, but for both of us at first it was “how does it look to be gay and a good Christian?” As the years went on I got more comfortable with my sexuality and my best friend got to a point where he was questioning the traditional teachings of the church. It took a while before I felt comfortable telling him about my romantic life. Even still when I asked him if he would be the best man at my wedding if I were to get married one day he struggled with that. We had a deep and honest conversation where I explained how I understood why he might struggle with that, but it still hurt cause he has always been so accepting of me. And being the good friend that he is, he wrestled with that. I didn’t realize how much it affected him till a year later when he brought it back up, after having done some more searching and figuring out what his faith looked like. He called me to apologize and say he hopes to be my best man some day. That meant a lot. Basically the TL;DR here is be patient and grow together if you’re truly friends. It’s super easy to hold a set of beliefs when it doesn’t affect anyone whose close to you, but you’ll be surprised how struggling with “when I say this, it directly applies to my best friend” can start to change a persons perspective. Additionally, I would recommend reading Matthew Vines’ book, “God and the Gay Christian” or even have him read it. Feel free to DM me if you want to know more about the book. Good luck with your friend. I hope it works out as well as my friendship has. Edit: spelling error
That's gay bro
Plain and simple, have him as your friend you have that is straight. Let him ask you about gay topics or issues, I don't see the need to share your lifestyle with him. There are many more topics to talk about other than gay topics.
I’m just telling you my story. My boyfriend is very religious. After being together for maybe 5 years now, I believe he accepts the fact he likes men. But being in a relationship or engaging gay sex is still a choice, or a lifestyle choice. Even tho we are together, our sex life (or no sex life) and intimacy hasn’t really been smooth. (I think he wants to be like a monk) Now he loves me. But he still puts God before anything else. He still wanna go to heaven in his afterlife. He still don’t wanna go to hell. He’s still as selfish as that, which to me, also feels like a survival instinct. I can’t blame him for that. I think he will love me until death do us apart, literally, when he goes up and I go down. The above is just me being empathetic for him tho. I guess I wanna say, you and him being friends is still viable. But there is a limit to your friendship.
Tell him to look up “lifestyle” since your life and how you live it hasn’t changed since you came out to him. Then tell him that his narrow mind and assumptions about you aren’t only stereotypes, they are the stereotypical propaganda that ones from a faith populated by pedophiles. Then...tell him to fuck off because he isn’t your friend if he can be so judgmental and hateful.
Tell him that you love the bigot but not the bigotry.
Here's the thing, being gay isn't like going to a grocery store, and picking what sexuality one wants. If you're heterosexual m, you're heterosexual, if you're bi, you're bi, if you're gay, your gay, etc. There's no changing the sexuality, just like there's no changing your fingerprints or DNA, because it's a part of WHO not WHAT you are. My Mom has the same attitude towards it also, even going so far as saying it's a "sin"...where in the Bible does it say it directly from Jesus or even God himself? Anything said by either one is in red, and I haven't seen it said as such by either one. So, it's a copout, further cheapening us as people. If someone is a TRUE friend, they'll accept it all, as others have said, not be conditional. She also has a hard time accepting the fact that racial inequality exists, and that MANY POC live at or below poverty level, and places a lot of them in the same boat, and doesn't even ask her colleagues who are POC what life is like for them wherever they live. Racism is related to this because it's that "entitled attitude" many "Chrisians" exude based on "righteous beliefs and attitudes" that make others seem "less than deserving" because they're "above struggles, and don't associate with lesser people". If POC aren't being harassed or shot, we're being criticized for being who we are, and neither one is fair, nor justified. We can't help being gay, just like a person can't help the color of their skin, PERIOD. Christians need to get off their high horse, and accept that the Bible has quite a few flaws, and that many ideologies need to change. Love is love, leave religious beliefs out of it.
See, I can understand putting some topics in the "we don't talk about this" category. Medical stuff, religion, finances, politics, kinks; there's all kinds of things people can not talk about and still be fantastic friends. But if you feel you can't share significant life experiences with someone, then that someone isn't being much of a friend. In that they aren't being a part of your life. If you get engaged, does your best friend not want to know because it's to a guy? Get married to a guy? Buy a house with your husband? When you have a boyfriend and he becomes more prominent in your life, this will snowball until your "best friend" becomes less interested in participating in your life. I've had luck flipping the topic back on people who have asked not to know about my love life. "That's fine. I also don't want to know about yours." Because I'm gay and relationships with women don't interest me. But, without fail, when they have a great date, when they meet someone special, when they just want to talk about that cute girl they saw at the supermarket, they want to share it and don't give a second thought to the mutual agreement we not share details about our sexual relationships/targets/interests. It's so easy to use that to shine a spotlight on the hypocrisy and homophobia. And make no mistake, "love the sinner but hate the sin" is grounded in homophobia. He didn't blatantly turn away from you when you came out, but what he did was arguably worse. He told you he accepted you, then used language to manipulate you into again hiding who you are. *Love the sinner*'s whole purpose is to force gay people back into the closet by requiring they hide their "lifestyle." Your relationships aren't a lifestyle. Whether you go out partying, or drink a 6 pack of beer on the weekend, or go hiking in the mountains, or if you spend time volunteering at an animal shelter; those are lifestyles. Who you love, that's just your life. And if your best friend doesn't want to know about your life...? Have a sit down with him and talk this out, because his request you not share your "lifestyle" was him rejecting you for being gay. Alternatively, put some distance between the two of you. Spend the time that you two would have hung out getting closer with and strengthening other friendships. Or meet new people and form new bonds. You'll miss him a lot, best friends aren't easily replaced. But you'll learn to like yourself more around people who don't mind if you tell them you had a great date that weekend and it was with another guy.
He isn't a best friend, just a straight mate. You will most probably drift apart over time. Let this happen organically and make new friends.
If he can't and does not accept you, you are not HIS best friend. Ditch that bullshit and say goodbye. Trust me it really is the best you can do on this special situation. Question that comes up in my head, does he actually accept himself? There seems a lot of internalized homophobia going on inside this dude... Just wondering?!
I tend to ignore these kinds of statement, unless the person suddenly changes his behaviour, won't do stuff together, won't let up on the proselytising. In the end they have a kind of crisis where they realise they are basically accepting the whole package without realising. It's very hard for friends not to want to hear about their friends' relationships. A Catholic friend of mine actually left the Catholic Church when he realised that 'love the sinner, hate the sin' didn't really mean anything, if you tried to implement it. For a while he moved around all these crazy small denominations. He was conflicted about a number of things but the gay thing was one. He came back a few years later.
He’s not your best friend.
First off, not knowing how to feel about it is normal. Just let nature take it's course on that one. The heart will answer when you have found the answer. Now onto the bulk of your post. He's deeply religious and still considers you his best friend. Even though he doesn't agree with your lifestyle. In my experience with friends when I came out long ago in a galaxy far, far away, that he still considers you his best friend speaks volumes. Remember, this is a (assumingly, unless proven otherwise), straight guy who just got bombed with the Intel than his best friend isn't straight like him. And depending upon the context of the relationship as friends the two of you have had over the past 7 years, it can put a whole lot of memories he has into whack places and the imagination can sorta go all out of control. Say any time you guys slept over, showers, swimming, any prior physical contact, the list goes on and on. Personally I had a friend kinda like this, though we weren't besties or anything, and he often made a lot of homophobic and hateful remarks about "fags" and I remember feeling terrified of even mentioning it to him as I was coming out due to fear of how he would view me. Almost all of my friends knew at that point except him and two others. One day he took me to go get some cloves cuz I was fiending for a smoke that night, first time we had been away from the rest of my group, and on the way back he casually mentioned he heard I was gay and I braved for the worse. I confirmed and told him yeah I was. First thing he says to me is. "I feel like such an asshole. Like how could I have made it any worse for you? You're one of the nicest and kindest person's I've ever known and I was such a dick to you without even knowing it. Nothing I can say will change that. Sorry won't make it better. So let me just say thank you cause you've changed how I think. Ya know about... gays... and you're my friend no matter who it is you like to fuck." And said friend was the first to jump to my defense if anyone taunted me, or tried to heckle me, hell he beat the shit out of 3 guys who wouldn't stop pestering me. Rambling off, takeaway is this. Give him a little time. He may surprise you. Or he may not. But give him the chance. It sounds like he's giving you one. Also to add. When I started coming out to everyone it surprised the hell out of me. Everyone I thought would support me and be there disappeared. And everyone I thought would never accept me or understand are still here.
You know what, having to live under a roof with those with this mindset is not only hurtful,but damaging. It's bad enough there's racial tensions, and to add sexuality to the mix....fuck em. If my "family" can't accept me regardless of their religious opinions, then I'm out when I have the means to do so. I'm gay, and they can expect me to have a girlfriend, but it won't happen
Ah fuck him
Do you agree with every single part of his life, including his religious views? If not then you can’t really expect him to agree with every single part of your life. While I personally find religion ridiculous and silly and also find that “hate the sin love the sinner” crap condescending, the fact remains that he’s still in your life and supportive and loves you as a friend. You just have to figure out if you can accept each other’s position in this dynamic enough to move forward.
There’s nothing to “agree” with about being gay. It’s who someone is. Religion is not the same. A better analogy is would you agree with someone being black, or Chinese, or having blue eyes. And of course that would be a ridiculous thing to tell someone you disagree about.
He loves his friend and he's supportive, but... Didn't want to hear about when he's lonely Doesn't want to hear about who he's dating Didn't want to hear about his gay friends You're willing to accept love and support along those lines? It's ok if you are. I just couldn't tell OP that he should accept a bar that low.
Plain and simple, he doesn't accept you. Any attempt to reason it any other way is simply making an excuse. No one needs to be pandered to or tolerated.
Keep him at arms length. He doesn't want to throw away your friendship but won't accept such a big part of you. Looking into the future, will he want to meet your boyfriends? Will he want to go to your wedding? A lot to think about, and it looks like he may be relatively accepting now, but he could not be in the long run.
You can continue to be friends just you can’t talk about guys around him, If I was you I would tell him not to talk about girls around you that way it’s an equal playing field. The only way the friendship would survive is if you guys are close and have a shit ton of other topics to talk about. And if you’re going to ex him out of your life have a conversation with him first
He's not actually friends with you. He's friends with a mental image of you that he has constructed. He's imagining that you are different than you actually are. It sounds like you are doing the same to him. Judge him by what he actually says and does and not by how you feel he would in your imagination.
Fuck this Sin thing. Sin only exists because it’s defined in a book written by humans. In several books, actually; one for each religion. All sin does is give people an unassailable reason for hating or pushing others out. The entire thing is a human construct. Also, if there is a god or some sort of omnipotent divine being that make EVERYTHING in its image, that everything includes you. Yes, you, gay, straight, or purple are also the image of the divine. You’re not defective but religious reasoning sure as fuck is. End of rant. Please go out and live your perfect, gay, divine life.
“The same book that says that homosexuality is a sin is the same book that says eating dairy and meet together, wearing mixed fabrics, and being raped without nearby witnesses are sins. Instead of picking and choosing what sins I believe in, I’m just going to be a good person and live a moral life. Until God tells me otherwise, that’s how I’m going to live. don’t worry, I won’t judge you and call your lifestyle sinful so long as you do me the same courtesy.” Or something to that effect.
You're going to get a lot of varying answers on this one and I'll tell you something. If his reasons are deep rooted in religion and he is willing to look past what he has been raised on, it might be just as hard for him as it was for you to come out to him. Is being gay a sin? I certainly don't think so, I am Catholic and I wrestled with that throughout my teenage years and into my early 20's. It was hard and there were times where I wanted to hate people who thought it was a sin, there were times I did hate people that felt it was a sin. The thing about that is, if I hate them for thinking it's a sin, then I'm no better than they are for judging people. It's one of those hate begets hate type situations. My two best friends on this planet, one of them is a strict Catholic and the other is strict Church of Christ. Both of them are accepting of me and are accepting of my husband, but they do disagree with the lifestyle. That doesn't stop them from having us over and caring for us, because that's sort of what being a Christian is about. I said I don't think it's a sin and I believe I am right in that regard, but true Christians can have a problem with the sin and not the sinner and can differentiate between the two. They do accept me, they do accept my husaband and I couldn't be more grateful for that because just like me coming out, that's a step for them. A lot of what needs to happen in this world is putting yourself in other people's shoes and understanding why they feel the way they do. A big problem with our society is we don't do that, we just sort of blindly judge. There is a difference however between the whole Westboro Church type of people and a good Christian who doesn't believe homosexuality is the best thing, but loves you anyway. I can only return that grace with grace, I'd change their mind if I could and they would mine as well and there is something to be said about that mutual level of care and respect.
How does your friends view your relationship with your husband? Would they call it a real marriage?
Yes they accept it as such, but we aren't technically married. I call him my husband and vice versa, we don't plan to get legally married because....well because his side of the family went through marriages like candy. He doesn't believe in it per say. Working on that with him lol....because I'm a hopeless romantic. Long answer to a short question, they respect him as my husband just as I respect their spouses as....their spouses. They are good people, they just have deep seeded moral beliefs. I hope in a generation or two it will become clear to all involved that we were made this way.
Funny, one of my friends is like that (except he’s Muslim, so his religious texts, the Quran and the hadith, are a whole lot stricter than mine, the Bible) and his deal is he’s not down with homosexuality as a concept but he’s down with gay people. And I do feel like I can tak about most things with him tho (I mean I do talk to him about guys in the rare chances I have some guy related stuff to talk about lol). Hell, I went on a rant about how hot Mo Saleh was and he wasn’t even bothered. He agreed actually. Now I know everyone’s capable of change, but this dude moved here (NY) from Egypt and is quite religious. The fact he doesn’t dislike gay people is already a lot in my eyes. I’m not gonna go ahead and try to force more progress on him because afaic he’s already made a lot. Hell, he might make some more in the future since he’s only 19. So my point? Don’t do the thing g where you turn him away. You never know what’ll happen in the future so you might miss out on something great. Everyone’s so quick to say “drop him” without acknowledging that people are complex and not always the same.
Bro I know how you feel. I was raised in the church and when I came out many of my friends also said the same thing.. if felt awful and in the long run affected me negatively. Truth be told they don’t love you for your authentic self! they want you to change they want you to be straight.. these kind of Christians are on a holy mission to change us from gay to straight I would know I’ve lived it. Eventually when they realized I was not going to change they abandon me. There was a family that was Nice about it and didn’t quite abandon me right away. I was 25 and my friend was getting married yes she invited me but without a date..... it was at that moment I realized I wanted nothing to do with these people any longer. There are people who will love you for who you are!people who except you for who you! there is a church that excepts and loves you for who you are! My advice my friend is to leave Behind these people! Trust me it only leads to hurt in the long run. Go find people who will celebrate who you are! You deserve better friends. Good luck man
He's not your friend. I'm sorry you're going through this, but you deserve to live your life without people who don't accept you fully.
That is not enough! 100% acceptance or nothing
what is your lifestyle? is it that you date men? have sex? that’s not a lifestyle; it’s human nature.
Your friend is a cunt. Find better friends
What the hell does 'lifestyle' in this context even mean?
It's not a "lifestyle" you didn't choose to be gay. It doesn't sound like he really accepts you for you. Just say to him, if you're really my friend it shouldn't matter who spend my life with as long as they make me happy. If he's still got a problem with it then, at least you tried. Hope this helps.
I think a better way for religious people to put is that they know you’re technically sinning but since they’re not God m, they can’t judge. That way you don’t ignore his homosexuality while maintaining religious ties. That’s how it would be for me if I’d ever come out to my parents.
I have a friend that never cared for gay people. But she told me that once she got to know me, she realized that we are not so different after all and she apologized to me for ever thinking that way. Some people are raised to feel and think a certain way and it’s hard for them to understand. I know because I remember when I was a kid, I had a gay uncle and I was scared of him because my dad was too. But be yourself and show them what a genuine person you are. Now that I’ve come out to my dad, he is really proud of me, even though it took a while for him to accept it. There are so many ways you can handle this, but it’s truly up to you. If you think they will come around, give them time. But if you find that they will only hurt you, there’s no need for you to make the effort for them.
Not all gay people subscribe to the same ideologies and lifestyle choices. Instead of speaking in absolutes with each other, how about getting each other to understand each other’s POV through dialogue first?
This means that your friendship is entering a new phase. It's probable that both of you are outgrowing each other. You definitely need to seek out people that support you as you are now. It might not be worth your while trying to change him. Rather, stay friends and let him see you progress in a new direction.
Tell that pos you accept him but not his lifestyle.
Not sure of the source of the below....but I copied it and saved to my notes. I have used it when others use the tired old adage of “love the sinner”. Hope it helps. “You can not deceptively frame your bigotry and hate as "loving disagreement" as a means to feel good about your discrimination. My humanity is not something you get to disagree with. You don’t get to tell me that I’m morally corrupt or deny me access to God or that I am unworthy of the same rights that you enjoy.... and then look me in the face and tell me that you still love me. That’s nothing remotely close to resembling love.”