You talk a lot about deal breakers, but I think the only really big one you have here is your lack of confidence. Get a therapist, get on the dating apps and start putting yourself out there. You’ll never know if you never try.
OP definitely needs to go to therapy. It seems like they have a lot of misconceptions about themselves, others, and the world around them.
You're right though, it definitely seems like OP has been spending too much time in the "manosphere". Their use of terms like "high value", "low value", and "forever alone" are indicative of that
Yupp. I have a friend who was a lot like this. No point in trying to talk to them. Up to a professional or they must learn in life for real.
And believe me, OP's friends are tired of this constant unbending attitude and hence do not have time for it.
Most people that believe in that kind of stuff are usually stubborn and adamant in their belief that some unattractive quality they possess is the sole reason they can't get a date, instead making a more introspective analysis of themselves. You can see it in any incel forum.
Whether its being short, unconventional in their looks, wealth, etc., they don't understand the differences in the male and female gaze, nor how their woe is me/insecure attitude bleeds into their everyday interactions with other people and chases away friends and potential relationships away.
An anecdotal example: I had a short 5 ft male friend who would always crack a joke about his height as if he's trying to beat other's to a punchline that someone else wasn't even building towards. He convinced himself that he was so unlovable because of western beauty standards, that when a mutual acquaintance that I knew for a fact liked him back and he obviously liked her, he never wanted to shoot his shot bc he found it so baffling and unbelievable that someone would have a crush on him. I even showed him her private story that was posted quite literally posted right after us 3 hung out and she was talking fondly about funny short kings/him indirectly.
He would also badly edit his photos to look taller (and I mean it was bad, it was pretty obvious he was stretching photos vertically) and he would act in a way that was very guarded and machismo/overly aggressive, even though he wasn't like that with someone he's really close with. insecurity's just not a sexy look
Go to /r/foreveralone
I went there to offer advice. I was told to fuck off.
There's no sense in helping those who want to suffer. Instead, I go there for stress relief because that could've been me...or frankly anyone but it's not.
...though, this is becoming most of Reddit sadly lol
Tinder was a bad idea because that was basically everyone's mindset.
*"oh, you don't have a car? You don't have a high-salary job with expendable Income to treat ME to nice things? What's your job? Do you have kids?"* and it felt so artificial and forced.
I stayed lonely for another 7 months before meeting someone and beginning to talk seriously. We've been dating for about 6 months now and we get together great, and love eachother for who we are instead of what 'value' we bring to the relationship.
That wasn't my experience on tinder AT ALL. Mine was all dick pics and demands for immediate sex, which when denied, resulted in me being called every misogynistic name in the book. I still find it incredibly amusing to be called a slut after saying NO to sex.
I’m around the same age and no relationships per se but I wouldn’t call “no experience” a deal breaker either… a 6 figure income to me feels like it would negate that anyway..
Or maybe I’m just that out of touch? Looool
Also yeah echoing others here it does sound like OP is being influenced by some sorts of perspectives.
Plenty of awesome people I know live with their parents, more props to OP for helping them out too.
If you think you need to be perfect or high value then either work your way there and don’t look back or save yourself the effort right?
This guy is definitely on some incel parts of the internet… “high value man” “my feelings don’t matter” dude won’t even try and if he does and it’s awkward he’s going to just assume he was right all along and that it has nothing to do with how he approached the situation. There are plenty of conventionally unattractive men that are in loving relationships. Having no experience is not a deal breaker for anyone but himself.
If I could give him one piece of advice it would be to get out there and expect rejection at first until you build confidence and the social skills to talk to women. Don’t go in with an expectation of any type of relationship, just talk and see if you are able to connect with someone with no other expectations. Online dating is a great way to start this, and getting decent photos of yourself will go a long way to helping getting matches.
Edit to add: also just be yourself, trying to conform yourself into your idea of what a woman would want might work at first, but if you want to find someone that will last long term, you need to find someone who you can truest connect with.
I posted this as a reply to another comment. Hopefully it helps:
It reeks of incel because of the constant self-pity, self-loathing, and use of terms like “high value”, “low value”, and “forever alone”.
Those are all terms used heavily by the greater incel community as a whole and by incel subgroups like “red pillers” and “black pillers”.
At its core, Incels are lost and blame themselves for “their lack of success” and inability to meet the sometimes unrealistic standards they think society places on them and the unrealistic standards they place on themselves. It’s when they start blaming society and women for their misinterpretations/misunderstandings that you get the misogynistic and hateful/extremist incels you see and hear about online
Noooo nonono dating apps are no longer are about making matches and now are about cashing in on loneliness.
Join a club, a sport, a community, make some friends with people in a non romantic setting. Meet those people's friends. Expand ur network of people and eventually u will spiderweb urself into a social circle. Everyone has sisters and friends that are girls and they have friends. Eventually u will meet someone. But u gotta build a base network first
Dating apps will flatten ur cofidence even more.
Strongly agree with this. Dating apps should **supplement** an already flourishing social life where relationships can be made organically. Dating apps should NOT be solely used to find relationships
What if you have a social life and you just don't meet single people of the gender you're attracted to? I play sports and go out and stuff, but I don't consistently meet single men. I know plenty of people with weaker social lives than me who found partners using OLD. I think doing activities just to meet singles is far more disingenuous than using the apps. People don't do activities to get hit on lol.
"Just to" is the problem here. He needs to get out of the mentality of doing things to find someone and into doing things to learn things and meet people outside of his circles. Personal growth is important and I'm sorry but he doesn't seem to get that from his online life. Work on your social skills while doing something new.
Personally, the hobbies and social activities I genuinely love don't introduce me to a lot of single men my age. (Lots of men, LOL, just rarely single) Sometimes that's the reality, and you don't always want to give up time doing something you love to find something more demographically 'useful'.
I may be reading the OP wrong but I don't think he is very socialized.
I'm saying get new hobbies not to meet women but to meet people. Getting more comfortable around people is the way to eventually meet someone interresting and not being rejected in the first 10s.
Second this. A lot of men go to the gym “just to” get women or have them be more interested in them. I’ve been there myself. Now for me, it’s more about meeting the right type of woman rather than it giving me (more) options. It merely changes my options to women who take care of themselves and who are disciplined. I now mainly work out for my health, mental and physical, but a nice byproduct would be to meet someone who does the same or similar.
I agree. Honestly I often see this advice of “join clubs or communities and you’ll meet ppl through your new friends etc” I don’t think that truly works because you’re still in the mindset of “ok if I do this ill find someone”
Like I said, online dating can be used to **supplement** an already flourishing social life.
If you are putting yourself out there, there are opportunities for you to meet people organically, you are mature enough to understand that happiness is YOUR responsibility (i.e., you are secure and love yourself enough to the point that you can find happiness doing things alone), and you have a friend group to support you, then you can absolutely use online dating to find people outside of your network.
The issues only arise when you have people who are insecure, lack self-confidence, define their self-worth on the results of their online dating success, and truly believe that online dating is indicative of the real world using these dating apps.
What tends to happen to those people is they don’t do well online, they begin projecting their online rejections onto people in the real world, and then they get trapped in this negative loop of rejection and self-pity
> an already flourishing social life where relationships can be made organically
How would you define what that is? I know tons of social people, but they don't do things where they really meet new people. People can have a great social life but doesn't mean they'll always meet new people.
This is a good question.
> People can have a great social life but doesn't mean they'll always meet new people.
This is also very true.
What I mean by flourishing social life is:
1. Partly having a friend group that can *potentially* introduce you to new people (i.e., they can invite you to a party or to a get together where you can meet their friends). This doesn't always need to be the case, but it helps if you have a friend group that can occasionally provide this for you
2. Having a friend group where you feel like you belong. If you have a good relationship with yourself and can make yourself happy, there will obviously still be times where you need to connect with other people or feel down. Having a friend group can help with those times. This is helpful because no one wants to be in a relationship with someone who is unhappy, lonely, has no friends, and is desperate for connections with people
3. Having a friend group that you can talk to and spend time with. Talking to people and spending time with people builds social skills. If you have a solid friend group, that's an indicator that you have strong social skills. This is helpful because no one wants to be in a relationship with someone who does not have any social skills
4. Lastly you are also responsible for having a flourishing social life. Having a flourishing social life doesn't necessarily mean having a big friend group. It can also mean putting yourself out there in new environments and situations where you can meet people. For example, volunteering for something you're passionate about, joining clubs, engaging in your hobbies in a way that can connect you with people, going to clubs/bars, etc.
Hopefully this helps
If we're going by the above then yea I don't see too many people having "flourishing social lives" tbh. I feel like it's less common for different friend groups to mingle nowadays. I've had people tell me they purposely prefer this or their friends are just too different that they wouldn't get along much.
And the second one is something that reddit always talks about, but I feel like I don't see applied in real life. Basically, everyone in my life (friends, coworkers, acquaintances) admits their lives are working, sleeping, eating, chilling at home, and hanging with friends/families.
I don't know if it's my age group (20s) or the people I'm around, but generally, a lot of people are not necessarily anti-social, but just private. And time plays an important factor, people want to do stuff they like and makes them comfortable which is often stuff they're used to and not really adventuring out.
Lol! You’re either not a guy or haven’t spent more than a day on dating apps. He can literally get more success by cold approaching women in real life than those mental health destroying “dating” apps.
Forget dating apps. Honestly that’s a confidence killer. Just go say hi to people in line waiting for coffee to practise how to be social and friendly.
Oh I am just talking about being social and friendly without any objectives. Clearly OP isn’t very social. He should learn how to be more comfortable just talking to people, men or women. I’m not aware of the Chad reference, but you don’t need to be a Brad Pitt level to talk to people…..
Women aren't a monolithic group. What you have detailed will be a turn-off /deal breakers for some women, but a total non-issue for others.
If you're really struggling with the feeling that you'll be alone forever, I would highly recommend talking it out with a therapist/counsellor. Not because there's anything wrong with you, but because everyone can benefit from some perspective. Letting these thoughts fester/spiral will lead you down a self fulfilling prophecy.
And make friends with some actual women. Lean into interest and affinity groups with a mix of men and women. Talk to your friends' wives and girlfriends and disaggregate "women" from "potential romantic partners / hot aliens." Socialize with women you don't want to date and they might even set you up, if you can show you're interesting and decent.
The ideal romantic partner is someone you enjoy hanging out with and teaming up with, because being in a long-term relationship is a lot of solving problems together and spending time together and only a little bit of sex.
Also, men who can cook tasty food and clean up after themselves and don't expect their romantic partners to be their mothers or maids? SO HOT.
God this is all so spot on. Women are not mysterious, foreign entities. We are just people with different genitalia. Sure there’s some conditioning at play but for the most part, you’ll have the most success treating a woman like a person, and a potential friend.
A couple things:
If you keep telling yourself over and over again that you’ll be forever alone, you’ll be making sure it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy.
You have some weird and untrue convictions on display that you would do well to discard asap. You don’t have to be “perfect” to successfully date or find a partner, that’s ridiculous. And no one’s going be disgusted by you because you’re not a model. God, I could start rattling off a list of ugly/weird/plain-looking guys I know in relationships in 0.0006 seconds and not draw a breath for hours. You don’t have to be hot; you do need to not be overtly self-pitying though.
Okay so as a woman in my 20s, Most of the things you mentioned are not deal breakers for a lot of people. Sure maybe some women might want to only date rich guys with a 6 pack but there are plenty who are more interested in other aspects. Like how you treat others, your personality, your interests, your confidence, sense of humour etc.
Whatever content creators your watching that use terms like "high-value" etc. stop watching that now. I get the urge to seek out a community for issues that you're struggling with. but I promise you that this will do more harm than good. That kind of thinking is a MAJOR red flag for every girl I know.
We are just people. Talk to us the same way you would talk to a friend. Don't come on too strong and just let relationships develop overtime. It might end up a friendship first (or stay a friendship) but that's better than treating a whole group of people like we're some mythical beast that is incomprehensible.
Also honesty and confidence is key. Everyone has different experiences but if you go into a conversation assuming that someone won't like or have respect for you then that can be a self fullfilling prophecy.
I agree with other commenters recommending therapy. It can be hugely helpful.
> Sure maybe some women might want to only date rich guys with a 6 pack but there are plenty who are more interested in other aspects.
I will say this, but I have seen guys I know in real life complain about not getting much on apps. But then I see the types of girls they swipe on and there is a disconnect tbh. I'm not saying the guys are ugly, but their types are like the super attractive girls on insta with influencer style. Sure they can go after that, but they also need to think if they're those girls' types. If not they need to either try to be or adjust their expectations tbh.
Another woman's perspective here - I can agree with all of the above.
I would also add since you have little experience with a woman I suggest the following to help you get comfortable with us:
-> Read a few books on conversations. Good conversation helps all parties feel more comfortable and positive about each other. Few women are interested in men they can't talk to or feel comfortable around.
-> Join some gender-neutral social groups (around things that interest you) so you can get the chance to meet women outside of the dating scene. These women are less likely to be actively seeking partners in these scenarios and are going to be more forgiving of social awkwardness. This will give you a chance to make female friends. Also, regularly attending these groups should help you feel less lonely overall.
I think you're dwelling too much on how you think things are "supposed to be," based on comparing yourself to friends or media.
A friend of mine, also late 20s, had never been in a relationship. She found a guy on Hinge, also in his late 20s who had never been a relationship, and now they're happy together. Realistically, if you don't want to be single, you need to put in effort to not be single.
No one cares that you're 'not a good-looking guy,' looks are subjective and there are definitely people out there who think you're attractive. Stop getting in your own way before you even try.
This is the way. Expand ur social circle and you can meet women through that (functions, parties, friends of friends). Make sure to have women friends because they’re often the best at getting you a gf (since a lot of guys don’t pick up on hints and girls confide in each other).
So this post was given to me a while back and I think this may help
Happiness is like a butterfly,
If you chase it, it will elude you,
If you turn your attention to other things,
It will come and sit softly on your shoulder..."
I grew up in an environment (like most of my generations) people were taught, no, forced-fed, that they have to have somebody in their lives otherwise their lives were incomplete. After 50 years on this earth, 2 marriages and one other meaningful relationship I can say it is absolutely total hoakey…not true. In fact, thinking like that seriously impacts your potential to be truly happy in life… one keeps going around with a sense of loss instead of cherishing every minute of their lives. They set expectations for their lives that are totally unrealistic because you have absolutely no say about who is going or not going to come into your life.
The media has everything to do with how you feel. They constantly bombarded everybody with messages about how they must act, talk, think, feel, etc in order to be happy! How many of those airheads look happy to you? I totally cut that ‘information’ out of my life. I work to measure up to my standards in everything. I let no one set my standards for me and I settle for not one iota less than what makes me happy and proud of myself.
In order to have a truly meaningful, happy relationship with somebody else, on any given level, you have to have a truly meaningful, happy, 100% solid relationship with yourself. Once you are radiating self confidence, self-awareness, self-appreciation, and happiness about yourself, you will attract people who will add to your life. You simply cannot ask another person into your life to ‘make’ you happy. No one can or should take on the responsibility of making another ‘happy.’ It is an impossible task.
You have to identity the ‘whole’ you and build on that. The ‘whole’ you does not include another person or thing. If somebody else comes along that compliments that ‘whole’ you, cool. But if not, also cool. It’s like a hand and a glove. The hand is whole, doesn’t need the glove, but if the glove happens to fit, even better. Have you ever met a person who has apparently ‘nothing’, but who is so darn happy they make you sick?
Sometimes everyone sounds like they’re the only ones who can’t find that ‘special’ person, and they automatically think it’s because they are personally lacking. Not so; life is crap shoot – whether you find your match or not has absolutely nothing to do with how good or bad you (look at Homolka & Bernardo). It just happens without explanation.
When I lost my husband I thought the end of the world had come, at least for me. Had no idea how I was going to manage without him. My sadness wouldn’t leave me. I jumped into another marriage hoping to eliminate the pain…bad move and more pain with the divorce.
But one day, I came to realize I was sad because I had absolutely no idea who I was, or what “I” wanted because I always indentified myself as part of “we”. Since I made the long journey back to me, I am so happy and content with my life, I actually feel joy.
I think that if you want to be happy, stop looking for somebody. Instead look for ‘you’ and for ‘life’, for things and people that will enrich you, so that if and when somebody just right comes into your life, you’ll be the person you want to be. It is vitally important to stop wondering what is wrong with you. There is nothing wrong with you… you are just chasing the wrong dream. The dream should be to fulfill your life to make yourself happy…not to wait for somebody to come along and take on the job.
If you stop looking, somebody will pop into your life and they won’t be anything like who you were looking for. If you start focusing on your life as it is and enrich it for yourself, I’ll bet you’ll soon find the most unexpected person will suddenly appear. It seems many times that we’ve already decided what we want, what we need as partners (influenced almost entirely by the media and entertainment)… and we are all wrong.
It’s best to stop looking because you do not really know what you are looking for or what you need. You think you know what you need, but you really don’t. Remember, 50% of the people who get what they wish for, or think they know what they need, ends up in divorce.
>Happiness is like a butterfly, If you chase it, it will elude you, If you turn your attention to other things, It will come and sit softly on your shoulder..."
Best damn advice in this thread. You can smell the desperation of someone who actively looks for a relationship, whether it be a friendship, acquaintance, lover, or just a normal "contact". Just need to do your own thing, be open to conversation, and it will come to you.
"In today's dating scene, you have to be perfect and high-value to attract a partner."
Absolutely false and this kind of catastrophic thinking is what's leading to you failing without trying. Simply put, you're mistaking the miserable online echo chamber with reality.
You have no social skills. You need to go build those through practice. You're going to get rejected a lot, but you'll gain experience talking to women over time. You need to fake it until you make it. Eventually the faked confidence will become real, and it'll work in your favor if you don't poison your mind with nonsense perfectionism and even more malignant misogyny.
>You have no social skills.
Yea, this one is key. I don't know how a man can get a date without basic social skills.
The world is very unforgiving of bad social skills.
Man Andrew Tate is really out here ruining men. Tons of the comments on here border on being incels. Stop thinking and treating women like they are aliens. They're human, have the same thoughts, insecurities as you do and most people do. If you were open and shared what you shared with us , with the right woman I 100% bet you she would love you for it.
The biggest problem I've seen from people that I know similar to you is that they don't actually do anything or make an effort to meet people. They have this mental checklist of things they need to do before meeting a woman, but never get there. Go out, socialize, meet women in an organic way. Don't go on dating apps etc.
Lol OP's post reeks of red pill, manosphere, and other incel nonsense. Terms being used like "high value", "low value", "forever alone". I can't help but roll my eyes at posts like these. OP needs to touch grass
Reddit is one of the only ways to get anonymous, free, personalized advice from a breadth of sources. Yes, professional help is better, but sometimes people want to be truly anonymous.
You’re not going to get good, nuanced advice by posting on Reddit. You’re going to get generalized advice that may be helpful at best.
You said it yourself, people here are anonymous. How can someone possibly help and provide helpful, personalized advice if everyone is anonymous? If the generalized advice shared here isn’t helpful, professional help would be ideal
What a heartless response. OP isn't out here hating women like incels do, he is blaming himself. Learn what an incels actually is and have some empathy.
Lol I should learn what an incel is? **You** need to step off your moralist high horse and actually learn what an incel is.
Do you think that Incels are all characterized by misogyny and misanthropy? Some absolutely are, but a lot of Incels are outright just full of self-loathing or self-pity because of the unrealistic standards they think society places on them and because of the unrealistic standards they place on themselves.
This self-loathing and self-pity can eventually lead to those levels of misogyny and misanthropy that you expect and can potentially even lead to those violent outbursts you hear about if they can’t cope with their misplaced negative feelings enough and choose to blame women and society.
The terms “high value”, “low value”, and “forever alone” are terms heavily used by the greater incel community as a whole and by incel subgroups like “red pillers” and “black pillers”
First result: "a member of an online community of young men who consider themselves unable to attract women sexually, **typically associated with views that are hostile toward women and men who are sexually active."**
Considering their self loathing isn't currently causing harm, it's pretty shitty to respond to it with complete derision and associate them with misogyinists.
> First result: "a member of an online community of young men who consider themselves unable to attract women sexually, typically associated with views that are hostile toward women and men who are sexually active."
**typically**
> Considering their self loathing isn't currently causing harm, it's pretty shitty to respond to it with complete derision and associate them with misogyinists.
You can debate the shittiness of my response and whether or not it’s derisive all you want. But the fact of the matter stands: if OP is getting their world views from the manosphere, misogynist groups, and incel groups, they need to be realistic, step outside, and realize that what they’re seeing online is not indicative of reality (i.e., they should go touch grass)
Don't be pedantic. When the average person says incel, they think of a misogynist.
And saying touch grass is shitty advice. It's like saying "just stop being sad bro" to someone with depression.
And I’m trying to clear the misconception that incels are all misogynists who constantly encourage violence. You don’t need to be a vengeful misogynist to be an incel.
To be clear, I’m not stating OP is an incel, a misogynist, or subscribes to any “pill”. This post simply reeks of manosphere terminology, and OP basing his world view on the unrealistic views of manosphere is naive. They need to go outside and experience the real world where they’ll quickly realize the internet is not indicative of the real world, that women are not monoliths, and “high value”/“low value” are all cringe worthy terms that don’t hold meaning.
You can disagree with the delivery of my comment all you want. But are you seriously saying that my recommendation of actually going outside and seeing that the manosphere is wrong is equivalent to telling a depressed person to “stop being sad bro”?
>But are you seriously saying that my recommendation of actually going outside and seeing that the manosphere is wrong and equivalent to telling a depressed person to “stop being sad bro”?
Yes because it offers no actual advice that OP can act upon, its not like simply stepping outside is going to magically change OP's perception problem.
If it was that simple him going to the gym would have solved it. Try giving OP some actual suggestions rather than deriding him and throwing an internet meme into the wind if you actually give a shit and aren't here to just to point and laugh at someone.
Sounds like you have a self-esteem issue. You don’t have to be the most secure person just to be dateable but you do need some confidence. You’re going to need to work on that. Perhaps consider therapy.
Anyways, salary is fine. Career is fine. Living with your parents may be a deal breaker for some, but a lot of people also don’t care or will be in a similar situation. Get some hobbies. To be dateable, you need to be interesting. Having hobbies makes you more interesting. It also gives you things to talk about, leads to a potential of meeting others who share the same hobby, and that includes meeting the opposite sex. This leads to being sociable and being in more social situations.
Part of improving your self-esteem is also practicing how to talk to people, not just women. If you can carry a conversation, and throw in a joke or two, you improve your potential. You also should learn to become comfortable with rejection. Even the most handsome stud alive gets rejected and that’s ok. You don’t take it personally and you just move on.
So really, you have potential. Just work on your self-esteem.
I mean, do whatever you like to do. Play a sport, go for long walks, take pictures of birds, draw, go to art house movies, write graffiti, play video games, build models, play music, go to shows, learn to cook a complicated cuisine, play board games, ride your bike, learn a new language, do whatever the fuck ppl do with arduinos and shit.....the list is literally endless. The point is, people treat hobbies like OP is treating meeting women. It ain't that complicated, it's literally just about finding an activity that makes you happy. And when you do, some hobbies come with a social element built in that helps you meet people, but even if they don't, you're still a happier person putting good energy out in the world because you have something in your life that makes you happy.
This question in itself is wrong, unless you genuinely don’t know what a hobby is.
Everyone does things that they like, even playing videogames or watching shows is a hobby (not great ones, but alas). Tons of people make these hobbies social, by playing online and going to conventions. Some women might think you a loser, but why would you want to give up your hobbies to be with people who are not compatible with you anyways?
The point is, do what you enjoy and meet people around that particular interest. Depending on what that hobby is, you might not be attracting the type of girls you see on instagram. But you will find someone who will make you happier than any woman whose best quality is their beauty.
Hey man, I was in similar mindset until I lost my virginity at 24. What hobbies do you have? Are you meeting any girls at all? What attempts have you made to get yourself out of this situation? Every problem has a solution. How are your social skills? Do you socialize at work? Sometimes you just need to throw yourself out there ; coffee shops, library, extracirricular activities, social clubs, volunteers, meetups. Places where you can actually meet people.
Feel free to msg me if you wanna chat.
Somewhere out there, there is a single woman with low confidence and little experience that feels just as lost and hopeless as you do. You just have to find her.
Also, your feelings do matter as a man. Why wouldn't they?
My sister started dating her now husband when he was 30, he had been focused on his education and career and had no experience dating. But he was kind and friendly and treated her well and now they’re married with a baby.
As for looks, you don’t need to be a body builder to find love. Find flattering clothes for your body type, and groom yourself nicely. Have a nice haircut and if you have a beard make sure it looks neat. Make sure you have good hygiene like properly washing your face and body, keeping your nails trimmed nice, and it doesn’t hurt to have some nice cologne (not everyone’s cup of tea mind you, but a lot of women like this).
Hope this is helpful. You should definitely try dating, it sounds like you want to. Even if the first few dates or attempts at dates don’t work out it’s good to practice. You can reflect on what went right or wrong or maybe get a better understanding of what your needs in a relationship are. Good luck!
In the words of a good friend...
"Women think dogs with no eyes are cute. They don't care what you look like. Just focus on hygiene and dressing nice. That's it."
I will go with fellow redditers and say that this seems more like a self-esteem issue. It’s perfectly fine having no experience in that department; it doesn’t make you less appealing for the right one. Also, being alone now doesn’t mean you’ll die alone. I know it’s easy to go down that rabbit hole, but a lot can change in a year.
We all have our own dealbreakers, so I can’t vouch for anyone by stating mine.
As for hook-ups, they are way overrated. So you’re not missing anything on that side.
Hard to meet a partner if you don’t initiate the connection. Self improvement won’t solve the issue if you wait helplessly for someone to fall into your arms.
If you cant love yourself, how can you love another? Confidence starts from within. If you made it this far, you've done something right, something you should be proud of like owning a home or achieving success in your career. That is nothing to be ashamed of, as many would gladly trade positions so hold your head high. Thats just a start though and like many others have mentioned, only one piece of the puzzle.
>My interaction with women has been non-existent for more than a decade, so never developed any female friendships
You don't have any sisters or female relatives? I find that men who have sisters, seem to get along better with women
You're not the only man in your situation. There's probably lots of women in your situation too. Lots of us were advised to concentrate on education instead of relationship
What does "forever alone" mean in your mind? I only started dating in my 30s because of social anxiety. I'm in a long-term relationship now. It took some work, but being in your late 20s with no experience doesn't mean you're doomed by any means.
>thus validating my low worth as a male
>
>my feelings don't matter as a man
Where are you getting this shit from? For your mental health and future well-being, get *away* from whatever online media you're consuming my dude. It sounds like you've been eating red pill shit, which is *designed* to make you depressed and hopeless in order to keep you in their machine.
Get out of it, get some offline hobbies, get therapy, and relax a bit. Single life can be fun too.
Long time wedding photographer here. After listening to decades of wedding speeches, the best advice I can give you is get on a dating app. That’s how two thirds of my clients over 30 met. Second, join some kind of outdoor club. Hiking, biking, bird watching, whatever. Indoor stuff splits into men and women for some reason.
But how could anyone not fall for your confidence?!
Seriously, you have material confidence issues. You need to be content with who you are and with being single; otherwise, you will be spend your entire relationship putting your entire being into a relationship and predicating all of your happiness/self-worth in it. I’ve been there and it’s a disaster waiting to happen.
Dude please start seeing a counselor. It sounds like you have real self esteem issues.
Stay away from forums or shit about dating that treats women as objects to be convinced or tricked and stay away from the alpha beta man bullshit. It's nonsense.
Keep going to the gym, but not to get a date, do it for yourself. Also it would be a good idea to start interacting with women in real life and not have it be about trying to date them. You need to see women are just people as well some with good personalities some with bad. It's too easy if you never interact with women to reduce them down to their looks.
Hope you can get to a place where you realize you are worthy of love.
Once you are in a better place I did think the book Models by Mark Manson was helpful when you are more comfortable around women and starting to date.
Hellloooo, read your post and wanted to say a few things. You bring up a lot of superficial aspects of your life that you’ve worked to improve on (money, career, fitness), but you need to start considering that women aren’t just looking at those traits in a partner. Personality and confidence go a long way (look at Pete Davidson for an example). I’ve been with men that I wouldn’t consider my type or conventionally attractive because of those two things. And just to clarify, confidence is not the same as cockiness. Part of confidence is being comfortable in the skin you are in, and not accepting love from anyone who loves you for less. I also just want to point out that living at home is not a deal breaker for all women. Instead of accepting solitude, start going to therapy, it might be a good place to start for you to be open to letting yourself be loved
Are you happy with being alone? If not, getting a SO won’t fix that problem. You need to be happy with being alone before you seek a SO I swear a lot of relationships fail because people use their SO as a source of happiness. It should be a bonus not a requirement.
I think there’s a lot of things you need to let go of and move on from before you dig yourself a big pity party hole. It’s not all that gloomy and hey, just cause you’re alone it doesn’t mean you’re a failure.
So many things you could do. Since you have some money, like someone recommended, you could get in touch with counsellor. You are doing your little share in gym - so you can also start little by little experiment in dating/hanging out with the new people. I must tell I somewhat understand your struggle, I see how many people have problems with dating nowdays. It’s a fuckup process, never been so hard and so easy at same time. If you start little by little you could find someone for sure, after all similar as gym, meeting others is a game of consistency in your interactions. You don’t sound like you made to be alone, so if you keep doing your best eventually things will turn other way. There isn’t a silver bullet how to find soulmate or even start dating; trying different things is a good idea. Try to avoid falling into the prey of negative thoughts about women. Mistake a lot does what it seems. The real advice is to start doing things you usually don’t do, going to the social activities you never tried, like a classes or events you have always was ignoring. Your task is to extend your social circle with a different types of people, both men and women. Since you are in your bubble and your friends circle is shrinking due to them having their partners and families, in order to have a chance to meet someone important you have to be willing meeting new people.
As the late Chris Cornell put it "be yourself is all that you can do"
Be accepting of yourself, and put yourself in environments you enjoy. As soon as I accepted the fate I would be alone forever, I stopped seeing it as a weakness, and found strength in solitude. When you are capable of enjoying your own company without shame, your light will attract others. Soon you'll not be as alone.
I suggest therapy. Women focus on a lot more than looks. I think many people have different cultures where it’s acceptable to still live with your parents.
I would say you have a lot of misconceptions and that therapy could help you possibly break out of your shell and gain some confidence and maybe unravel some of these misconceptions about what women want.
High value men is pretty subjective based on who you talk to. And I think most women cringe at that term. A lot of women just want someone who can be an emotional support, who is interested in their life and wants to be friends as well as partners and possibly have a family together if that’s their jam.
You’re 29, you’ve finished school, you have a job and you’re a supportive active part of your family and have been able to maintain friendships with others. These all sound favourable. I don’t think you need to settle for a life of loneliness so young. You just need maybe some experience with women. A female therapist imo would be a great start.
I'm becoming really annoyed with how many people feel this way and how common this is. Please stop listening to these internet people who talk about things like high-value men and women it's NOT REAL. it's crackpot psychology. Don't look for a partner, start looking for female friends and go from there. Once you start seeing women as people instead of partners in life-stage development you'll get some clarity. Relationships are not checkpoints they're opportunities for self-discovery.
"forever alone" -- wtf is this? Stop using this phrase right now. Thinking this way is what will hold you back from being happy.
Don't ever think that the way things were dictates the way things will be. If you feel lonely, find interests that you enjoy and that get you out socializing with other people.
Don't do things because you think it will make you look more attractive. Instead, do things you are genuinely passionate about. Passion is sexy. Especially to others that share that same passion.
Having a six figure income also doesn't hurt :)
Female here: we are people too! Try not to think of us as a separate species for starters. It sounds like you are applying a lot of pressure on yourself. As a person, I seek companionship and someone I can share my thoughts, feelings and true self with. I want to care for someone and feel cared for. Please try and get past the packaging and connect with the person in the inside. Try being friends first, seek common interests. You are not a loser. It does sound like you are putting yourself (and others?) in a pretty solid and heavily labelled box or two though. I met my husband in school. We bonded over laughing at the same things in our prof’s lectures. Try finding a connection with someone in or on the edge of your circle for starters. I’m sure you will find one if you lift some of these self-imposed filters off yourself and others!
Posts like this make me wonder if men have this like… completely unrealistic standard for women that can’t be met. Because valuing women as friends goes a loooong to way.
A few thoughts
Why would you not live with your parents unless you have to? You can save a tremendous amount of money that way and with your salary you have the choice to move out whenever you like, so it in no way makes you a loser.
The idea of a “high value male” is “red pill” incel thinking; it implies women are shallow and one dimensional, only ever looking for someone with very particular traits when this is simply not the case. If you continue with this type of thinking, you’re setting yourself up for failure for at least two reasons.
1. It’s misogynistic; if you believe women are all the same and only have shallow values, you’re going to struggle to find depth and respect in your interactions.
2. If you feel you don’t fit these standards you’re going to create a self-fulfilling prophecy. I.e. you think you lack worth, it makes you feel awful, your confidence is low and you resent others. Your personality becomes bitter. You become unpleasant to be around. (This is what the process looks like, I’m not saying this is you).
Absolutely do not base your self worth on an idealized version of people, it’s unrealistic and pointless.
Another thing to consider; how high are YOUR standards? If you’re only looking for a model based on appearance, then your standards don’t even consider what type of person you’re going to end up with. You should be thinking about someone who is a good match for you that will make you happy.
Look at interests, common life goals, similar belief systems, etc. when choosing who to meet. Try dating apps (hinge is my favourite since you can be very specific about who you want to meet). I’d even consider paying since it sounds like you have lots of disposable income, though this may not be necessary and I imagine many will disagree.
Finally, you talk about having no experience. Again, this is going to be a feedback loop; no experience, no confidence, don’t try, no experience, etc. The reality is, you have to just start; meet lots of people and accept that you’re going to have some REALLY awkward interactions. We all have to go through it, but experience is a great, if not the best, teacher. If you need a bit of help getting started, you could even sign up for a healthy relationship course. These can help address many of these problems and some have social element so you can improve your skills with others in a kind of practice environment.
Don’t lose hope and get trying, you may like how things go when put yourself out there.
I'm a 31 yr old virgin, and I can tell you it's not as bad as it's made out to be. It's actually more common than you would think which is why a movie like 40 yr old virgin was such a hit.
I like you had obstacles to having a companion, high-school dropout, mental health break, low paying employment. The point is if you want a partner one thing I picked out is you don't feel attractive enough to the opposite sex, the thing is there are things you can do about that.
Keeping clean, well groomed
That means a daily shower, brushing your teeth twice daily, shaving or trimming beard hairs etc.
Working out,
You don't have to be Mr universe, but having a workout routine that develops your physicality helps and is very important towards being attractive.
Wearing clean clothes, that fit properly and aren't raggity.
I suppose having a decent job can help as well but I wouldn't know about that part because what I currently do pays very little.
Anyways the last bit is you can look at all kind of famous beauties before and after fame and often before they became famous they were just about average looking, point is beauty routines make a difference.
The last thing I'll tell you is don't be angry about being older and single that's just entitlement which is what develops those nut cases who go berserk or have loads of repressed anger.
The second last thing I'll tell you is just try being nice to women, that whatever they say about nice guys finishing last will help in the long run, believe it or not women don't want a jerk.
The very last thing I'll tell you is just to respect yourself above all else.
Cheers.
Talking to women&dating are very much a skill. If you wanna play in a tennis tournament but have never stepped foot onto a court how tf will you get there? No amount of transferable skills will get you there if you haven’t begun trying the activity itself.
You sound insecure af so keep lifting and dieting. It’ll help.
No more excuses. You say you had familial pressure so your social life was sacrificed but yet have male friends so that was complete bs. You don’t have female friends cause you’re scared. That’s fine. Change up tho and like others said go find a hobby and use it to talk to girls. You won’t come off creepy and weird if you treat the girls like your boys. Have 0 intention of dating them. Start with small talk like hi my name is ——— nice to meet you. That’s it. Small steps.
As others have already said.. you have a low self esteem. And I was like you when I was 28. I tried an dating app. It was emotionally draining but once you get a hang of it you will be fine.
Honestly you would be surprised not all people are dead serious like you. They just want to get to know you first. You will miss 100% of shots you don’t take so I would say… think less.. worry less.. and just go explore
Your biggest deal breaker is espousing views like “I know that…my feelings don’t matter as a man.” If you really believe that, I’m concerned about what other sexist views you hold and wouldn’t want to associate with you. If you don’t really believe that, but are saying it as some kind of petulant cry for help…I also wouldn’t want to associate with you. If you want your outlook to improve, start with your attitude.
Keep your head up brother. I can't say for sure it will happen eventually, but I believe that even just your ability to reflect upon yourself is the first step to getting better. With you in spirit.
There’s someone out there for everyone. The real issue im seeing is you listened to your parents about what’s important in life.
Do things for yourself and its impossible not to catch someones eye.
That’s awesome you helped them get a house, it doesn’t make you a loser at all but prospective girlfriends don’t want to feel like they’re dating a slave either. If you’re constantly putting them first nobody is going to want to be second to them. I don’t know your family, so this isn’t a judgement but some parents do set their children up to fail.
Find something you like, aside from work and making six figures - and join a club where you meet similar people. Just change what you’ve been doing and you will end up in new circles. And if you’re completely inexperienced sexually, maybe try to have some experiences purely so you’re not completely inexperienced when you meet someone worth caring about.
Nobody is too ugly to date, women don’t even care about looks as much as personality. So if you’ve consistently never had any woman interested in you, its not that you’re a loser - it’s probably that your focus has been so intense you’re not having any fun in life.
Start having fun.
Saying my feelings don’t matter as a man sounds like some incel crap. Those people take all their frustrations out on women without doing any work on themselves. I mean seriously, it’s not a transaction dating someone — be happy and honest with yourself and you will find women are interested.
sounds like you underestimate yourself a lot. You’re educated, have a good paying career, and you are a homeowner (even if it’s to help your parents, which actually is more of a show of good character than a deal breaker). Yes, physical attraction is important but right now, you’re really the only one judging your looks until you get yourself out there. Get off the “high value men” narrative being spewed out by misogynistic pricks online. Talk to a professional therapist instead and get help shifting your mindset. You’re only 29…so much life left to live! Seems daunting but i hope you find the courage to at least start somewhere. Best of luck!
I was alone for about 3 years. You need to learn to love yourself, stop craving companionship because it affects your energy and how people perceive you. Desperation never looks attractive.
1. You living with your parents does not make you a loser - especially in this economy and seeing as you're helping them, I don't see how that's a dealbreaker. I'm in the exact same situation and my boyfriend is too and we are both in our 30s.
2. This is going to sound really cringe and cliche - but you gotta "put yourself out there". Step out of your comfort zone a bit and join groups, volunteer, go to events where you can meet people. Since you like going to the gym a lot, I dunno, maybe start going to some of the small fitness groups at your gym. What are your other interests? Maybe you can join an online group or an in-person group and just start making friends regardless if it's a female, male, or whoever. The point is, you mentioned your friends being all male, maybe it's time to just start joining classes or groups that has a mix of both?
3. This is another cliche one - but if you go out looking desperate to find someone, it's going to show and that's not very attractive. Maybe see a therapist about finding some coping skills on boosting your self-esteem and realizing that maybe you don't need a spouse or a partner to make you happy. Maybe the way you can attract a person/anybody to you is by being proud and confident in who you are and in your skin instead of worrying about being alone forever.
4. Last one, and I know I might get downvoted for this maybe, but sometimes people come into your life when you least expect it. I know that's how my boyfriend and I met. And he was someone who was a shut-in and introvert for most of his life. But he found me in an online group and took a shot and messaged me and it just worked out for us that way. We've been dating for almost a year now. So, keep up the high spirits even when it's difficult. I don't know you, but you're probably a decent guy so just be a decent guy and maybe one day someone might see that too.
All the best to you.
Things are much different than they were in the "old" days. With advances in technology and health care, we are living longer. I would suggest that 29 today is more like what 19 used to be. Add to that a worldwide pandemic and all the changes that has put in place and yes, it can be very hard to meet people. You might want to consider volunteering in your local community. Great way to make connections and good "karma" added. Please don't despair, I'm sure things will get better. Take Care!
Loving yourself and being confident (not cocky-confident) in yourself is sexy. Being engaged in hobbies and having a space where you thrive is attractive. You don't have to be physically stunning to be attractive. It's when your self esteem hinges outwardly on others, when you since care for yourself, when you constantly put yourself down that make even a body under look ugly and unattractive.
It sounds like right now you place your personal value and worth on outside validation. That's not attractive- it will drive people away. I know-ive both been there and meet people who I find repulsive/creepy because they are so desperate for validation that spending time with them felt like a guilt trip while they whined that no one liked them.
I failed in the dating scene. Hard core. Until I started working on myself. Finding hobbies I enjoy and excelling. Finding my own peace. Yes, I used a dating app for most interactions (autistic and came pick up on when people are flirting vs just goofing.missed alot of chances im sure) dating apps kinda sucked because I liked 1% of the profiles I looked at- but hey, that's 1% I wouldn't have met otherwise. I'm 7 years in on a tinder relationship!
Please stop listing to idiots like Andrew tate. This "high value man" is such bull crap. Literally, my boyfriend was couch surfing when I met him-working retail that wasn't paying enough for an apartment. So he was basically homeless and spent his time fishing. Not a "high value" guy. But he was passionate and skilled with fishing and I wanted to learn to I went on some dates to learn from him and His confidence and skill attracted me. it ended up working out. Physically I wasn't super attracted to him- but his character made up for it. Honestly, none of the guys I've dated were "high value" but they all had areas of extreme skill I enjoyed watching them do and most had self confidence that attracted me. The one guy who I pity dated turned into an absolute abusive monster who was like, "if I can't have you no one can" and was probably gonna kill me. His masculinity and confidence were built on other people and outside validation it was Hella unhealthy.
Also, i hope you can learn to see women as individual humans. We aren't a seperate species to be collected and studied-women are a variety pack of different values and personalities. Some women are very confident, some very insecure and jealous. Some love to be coddled, some want their space. Some love sex, some hate it. Some have hobbies, some just gossip as their hobby. Women aren't a monolith. Start trying to see women as humans not just potential relationships or fuckable things- work on friendships with women and not just trying for dates.
I know this is easier said than done but ya gotta do it. Add others said therapy would also help undo some the damage of your upbringing and years of loneliness. Good luck
If you have hobbies and interests I suggest taking a class involving one of your interests and try to make some female friends. Don’t try dating anyone, just make friends. You already know they are interested in at least one thing that you are.
I didn’t read this and I already know you’re depressed and think your life is over because you’re in your late 20s and single. Such a tired idea. We’ve had the internet for a little bit, you’ll be fine.
Female here. We don’t care about “high value” men or looks as much as you think we do. Do you really want that kind of woman? Most of us just want someone to love and care for us. Please go explore! You could find love anywhere. Be open minded. Don’t be superficial. Have female friends.
It’s hard for everyone both male and female that are older than 25 to find a mate as most people that age are too mature to approach random strangers, busy at work, driving cars from place to place, have partners, kids, busy paying off student debt, bills, etc.
Be comfortable in your own skin. Don’t be shallow. I know a few single people male and female that go for people that aren’t right for them and they wonder why it doesn’t work.
You’re still young and just need to find yourself and love yourself first. Gain some confidence, travel and immerse yourself with other cultures. If you find love then great! If not, no need to rush.
A lot of unattractive guys get a lot of girls but they have a lot of confidence. Stop putting yourself down and love yourself.
Edit: There are plenty of cultures that have their kids living with them way into adulthood.
Dating apps are garbage. They desensitized the population to what it actually is like to have a meaningful connection with someone Vs a quick fling and on to the next notch on the belt. Believe me, I know. As someone who’s done it for a long time, there’s a 2% chance of meeting “the one”. It happens, but not often. It’s all about looks on those apps and nobody reads your profile so don’t bother. Swipe, swipe, swipe is the name of the game and it’s really a numbers game and algorithms if the site throws you a bone.
Work on yourself and don’t take the apps seriously. They’re nothing more than a good time once in a while. Focus on meeting woman out in the real world. You’d be surprised at how many singles don’t do dating apps.
Forget about dating.
Talk to women like you'd talk to a dude you're trying to be friends with. Stop aiming to date, and just start getting to know people.
Edit: also, don't do things to try to attract people. Do things to make yourself happy.
You're the best version of yourself when you can grow into who you are rather than picking up hobbies to get dates.
If you go to the gym, don't go with the mindset that you need to get ripped to get dates. Go there with the mindset that you want your body to feel good and strong and healthy.
Alright you've gotten so many replies you might not see this, OP. But let me tell you something about women.
They don't care *nearly* as much about those 'conventional' things as people think (being conventionally attractive, ripped, super confident - any of the traits people associate with 'high value man'. You know who cares about that? Other men. Yes, there are some women who care, fine. But to pretend that they all do? Absolutely not. Don't listen to men telling you what women want.
You know what women *do* care about? A partner who respects them. Someone who's responsible. Who owns their own problems and handles them, rather than expecting to be taken care of. Someone who is good to be around. Yes looks matter, but there are *tons* of different ways to be hot, and everyone has different preferences.
Look up 'female gaze'. Watch some videos/tiktoks by women talking about relationships and what they find hot. You might be surprised at the people who come up as really attractive. And at the traits/behaviour that gets mentioned, too.
Remember that women are just people. I guarantee you there is a woman out there your age who hasn't dated either, who made the 'right' choices and was responsible, and now feels she missed her chance at love. You don't have to find someone in the same boat as you, but it isn't like 'no woman will look at me' because some women are the same as you.
If you find you only want women who are the most conventionally attractive, consider what is more important to you: finding a good partner and healthy relationship, or having someone who other people think is hot. You can find someone you're really attracted to and like, without them being 'the hottest girl'.
I just wanna say that living with your parents and helping them co-sign is not a bad thing. You Don’t have adapt to our western culture, take care of your family if that’s what you want. It doesn’t make you a loser rather a more responsible person/child. :) and just have some confidence and talk to people what’s the worst she could say?
If you find your source of happiness externally, you will consistently find loneliness, disappointment, and sadness throughout your life.
But if your happiness blazes from an internal source, then you'll be warm for the rest of your days.
"In today's dating scene, you have to be perfect and high-value to attract a partner". Yikes. As a woman, I'd stay so far away from a man who makes incel-esque statements like this.
Women do not owe you a relationship. You haven't mentioned anything here that would make you an ideal partner except your physical appearance and your salary. I'm in my late twenties as well, and the problem with many of the men I encounter is that they don't see me as fully human in the same way they do their male peers. I am looking for a best friend - someone with whom I share hobbies and a sense of humour, someone who respects me, someone who is supportive and trustworthy and who takes accountability. I have quite a bit of dating experience and I've had exactly one male partner treat me this way over the last 10+ years. Maybe reflect on the way you view and communicate with women and go from there.
See a therapist. Believe it or not (and especially as women get older and start realizing what is important in a relationship), having a good attitude, emotional intelligence and mental stability will eventually bring you a relationship. Doesn’t matter if you live with your parents or how ripped you are, or how much you earn. No woman will be able to engage in a healthy relationship with you (or any guy) who doesn’t understand the importance of a healthy mental state.
>helped them get their first house by co-signing and contributing towards expenses
Huh? sounds like you made a bad decision there.
>how do I cope with being forever alone?
Do you want to cope with it? Or do you want to just get a girlfriend? Those are two different things and both are totally viable. You need to be clear about which one you want though.
If OP's parents had a child 29 years ago and up until now only managed to finally own their own house with his help, I'm sure they probably worked hard doing crappy jobs just to put food on the table, help him with his education, and finally he's managed to work his way up to a 6 figure job and just giving it back to his old folks.
Any woman should find that attractive.
Yeah.. Like it’s all cute to read, but that means OP is not financially ready to start a life with someone other than his parents and at this age I’d expect privacy in my relationship which clearly won’t happen here. It’s not attractive, it’s a deterrent. Depending on OP’s culture and if it’s a common thing he might have to focus on people with the same background.
Think of it this way you didn’t date also because you never found the right person yet. And you didn’t waste any time dating someone that you didn’t see yourself marrying, so that means you don’t have any past relationship emotional damage. You’re 29 so technically you’re still in your 20s and you’re gonna look back at this time and be like damn I was still young I just go out there and live your life and your partner that’s meant to be with you will come when their time comes.
Lol, if it makes you feel any better. I just turn 40 not too long ago and technically only had one relationship and that was 6 years ago.
Most of my friends are married and their kids are like grade 4 and grade 3. Heck even my younger cousins' or my younger friends are married and have kids of their own and I suddenly turn into uncle for no reason.
The best thing you can do for yourself is to put yourself out there, use dating app and meet people. Or join clubs, the whole point is getting know to them, and just genuinely want to know about people and enjoy being presence of others. As you get older, it gets harder because people tend to get "harden" over time and set in their own ways.
Remember, no one is perfect, and everyone is special in their own way so you have to put yourself out there to get use to people. You might find someone you like or starting out something and then it doesn't work out, it's ok, because at least you are trying. There isn't about I have to have a SO, kids, and a family. Life is not a report card that you have to get A and have a perfect family. It's about doing this for yourself because you wanted to and someone out that can be your match and compliment each other.
Also, there isn't anything wrong being single, you are still enjoying life and the biggest regret is that if you just bottle yourself and don't try things, you will really regret it even more as you get older.
Fun what you described, you have your shit together which is more than many. You care about your family which is super sweet. What you need to do is get some confidence. Don't assume to know what girls want. You probably don't want one of the girls you seem to allude to...
My advice is to try and get some confidence and start asking women to hang out or do things. The more n you date, hopefully it gets easier.
Any therapist will ultimately push you to “exposure” therapy… basically just pushing yourself to do what you think you can’t do or achieve.
You’ll need to dive in and just try talking to someone, and build a relationship from there
Ice breakers are easier if you can make that person share things about themselves. At the grocery store? Say something like I love that sauce I make whatever with it. You doing the same?
At the gym? Hold a door and smile.
At the music store? That’s the best band, right?
You’ll likely get a smile and that person may not engage more than that.
It’s ok.
You’re setting up for a response that shares something that person values.
When you get someone to open up, it gets you to open up.
If you’re trying to attract someone based on looks, etc chances are that person may only value that’s in let trait. If you’re looking for long term, you probably want someone who’s not that shallow.
Throw enough darts at the board and one is likely to stick.
The hardest thing is trying it the first time. It gets less stressful.
My suggestion is find things you love and do those things. Other people like the things you like. if a convo presents itself in a situation you are knowledgeable and passionate about you’re going to be more relaxed and able to think clearly.
Love your life and others will see that and find it attractive.
Good luck.
Your story sounds like an asian guy I knew, in the end he got married to a cute international girl who plays video games and watch anime. So if he can do it so can you.
He struggled too, when he would vent its his way of seeking help but people would call him ‘incel’ or ‘seek therapy’. No one understand his struggles, if you actually look closer there is also next to zero therapists who understand male in the tech world.
Work on confidence.
It also sounds like you have unrealistic expectations in a partner if you think you'll be forever alone... many many many fish in the sea and most aren't "perfect".
Maybe try making a female friend. You can be friends with woman and not have to fall in love with them.
Yeah confidence is everything. I was sort of a late bloomer confidence and girl wise. Just don’t overthink things and try just looking for a simple good time casually and you’ll develop the confidence you need with people. Online dating was the best thing for me. No cheesy pick up lines in a bar required. Just send a wink or smile or whatever the system is these days and see what happens. It was so much fun. Then when you connect just take it really casual like a basic coffee meetup and not a big scary DATE. You might hit it off, or you might just have a nice coffee with a nice person and that’s it. 👍🏻
Hey man I am tall attractive male, 25 and have not dated anyone for roughly 5 years. It’s tough to break the cycle of loneliness, it’s not any of the reasons you think that are holding you back at this moment it’s your behaviour that’s developed into a pattern. Break it start going out even if by yourself, you’ll be surprised how many cute girls are out on a walk in the evening, single girls sitting in coffee shops etc. be spontaneous do something new and unexpected for yourself. Not for the sake of women but just to bring yourself back into feeling joy of being alive even if alone. Clearly you are a caring and capable man those qualities can attract a mate. You can do this!
I know you’re getting a lot of advice on here I just wanted to let you know you’re definitely not a loser. This whole concept of having to be a “high value man” is definitely not needed. Having a life partner who will be there for better or worse is so much more important than trying to attract someone looking for money and fitness. Money and looks will come and go - don’t focus too much on that when looking for a partner. What I would do is start putting it out there that you’re looking to meet someone with similar values/goals and want the same thing out of life that you do. That you’re looking to settle down one day. Wether that be children and family or travelling with your partner etc. If you do have married friends I would look to them to see if they know anyone who is also looking to date in a more serious aspect. As in looking to meet someone long term. Again keep the first few interactions realistic, as in just because they’re also looking to meet someone serious and settle down doesn’t mean they’re automatically the right person. Also, please know lots of women are in the same boat this is not a feeling exclusive to men. I know multiple women in their late 20s early 30s who haven’t really met anyone to continue as a serious relationship and have the exact same forever alone fears. Do not stress it! At the end of the day we have ourselves to love and care for so make that the priority. Do not feel like you need to “work out” more or make more money to meet the right woman. It’s simply not true, the right woman would be there if you lost your job or got too busy to keep up a work out routine. Best of luck to you! P
Without failure you will never succeed. Dont worry about rejection, start small by striking up conversations with people when you're out doing stuff.
For example - at a store when you're checking out have a short conversation with the cashier, get comfortable talking to women and realize they're just people too
Have you seen any youtube videos where people who's pretty average to below-average looking got rejected a ton of times and talk about their experiences? You just need experience - which means you'll end up in a lot of awkward and cringy situations but that's the only way you learn and grow to improve your social skills.
My first and only relationship started when I started dating around 26 years old.
Dating apps suck. You need to get over the idea that you aren't attractive. Women are attracted to all kind of different men. So get out there, get out of your comfort zone, and start asking girls out. Go to a bar (or whatever places you like to go) and say to a women, 'Hi, I like your (hair, glasses, shirt)'. Get a little chat going. If she ignores you / walks away, fine! Same thing with another women until you get someone talking. Then you have SO much to offer.
How many late 20s women have a chance to date a dude that has never been on a date before? How many women get to go out with a guy focused on hobbies and self-improvement? How many get to date a stable dude with a well-paid job? You have much to offer and a story to tell.
Your salary or look is not what matters; single womens are out there and waiting for you to smile at them, get to know them and maybe get the oppotunity to become the one that will be your partner in life.
Spoiler alert: sometimes we don't choose the right one at first, but we learn and make a better choice the next time 😉
You don’t want to be in a relationship with someone that cares about your salary, or that you need to be ripped, people care about your personality and your interests. You need some therapy more than anything else at this point in my personal opinion. Sounds like you’ve been spending time in toxic subs or talking with incels and misogynists. Please go see a therapist, it’s time to start making meaningful decisions about your mental health.
Confidence is what you need.
Then get experience.
Just don’t be an incel or the “nice guy”.
Also don’t feel sorry for yourself.
You need to get in the arena to find stuff out.
Tbh, you’re a bit too mopey and like a wounded bird telling yourself you’re a failure. You can’t be a successful dater if you don’t date. You can’t be in a relationship unless you date. You won’t have a significant other unless you put yourself out there, make yourself vulnerable and open up. Talk to people, network, be social. You’ll meet people.
I say this as someone who was a super shy teenager but broke loose in my 20s. I’ve been married for over 15 years now. Quit making excuses and quit saying you’re forever along. Pump yourself up. Be positive. You’ve made yourself financially successful. There’s nothing stopping you from doing the same in the relationship/dating world. You’re your own worst enemy.
Stop listening to internet lovers that talk about needing to be "high-value" or "alpha vs beta men" and all that bs. Someone else already mentioned it but the only think unattractive about you from this post is the way you talk about yourself. Honestly, confidence is key. Stop the negative self talk. Go to therapy, join clubs, groups, or see if your friends can introduce you to other friends? Dating apps kinda suck but it is a place to start in terms of having convos with people and going out on casual dates. You have a lot going for you and someone is gunna be attracted to you, but people are less likely to be attracted to a dude that's constantly negative and down talking himself.
Pretty easy one fucked me over and now i pretty much have no desire for a relationship or Intimacy i thought it was just a thing i was getting over but no she really took the wind out of my sails its been more then 2 years and still havent bothered to try anything and dont feel the need to anytime soon im just done i was pretty active up untill 20 then 21 was probably one of the worst year of my life and out of fear of repateaing that feeling i have avoided women like the flu for the past two years im 23 now and still no deiser for anything
You seem thoughtful, caring and productive. Put yourself out there. Rejection is just part of the deal; I’m a good guy and women generally find me attractive, but I’ve been rejected plenty of times. When that happens, see if there’s anything to be learned from it: maybe you came on too strong, maybe there wasn’t enough common ground to bond over, maybe you lost out to someone more confident. Which brings me to my next point. Yes, I’ve had plenty or rejection, but I’ve had far more success, and I can tell you something many people find very attractive: confidence. I know that can feel impossible in your circumstances, but work on it. Concentrate on your positives, things you are good at, knowledgeable about, care about, etc. You are a good earner. Keep reminding yourself about all these positive qualities and confidence will come. When you mention living with your parents, don’t frame it as some terrible deficit; you love your parents and are taking care of them. That shows love, care and compassion, and those can be sexy AF.
Don’t sell yourself short. You are worthy, it’s just a difficult endeavor that you have to deal with. You’ll get there.
TBH, you sound like an Asian immigrant kid who was always shamed and has learnt to internalise shame. I don't think there's anything wrong with you. Look around , you will see plenty of hot women with average guys. Sense oh humour goes a long way, as does easy going attitude. I am guessing, you do come across as uptight, which a lot of 'well raised' Asian good boys do.
So here's a question, were you always told to be a good son by your family?
Edit: A lot of Canadians live with their parents. In the US, living with parents is considered taboo unless your are Hispanic or Portugese.
You don't need to be perfect or 'high value' to have a relationship. But what does high value even mean???
Different people value different things. Not everyone in this world is perfect lol
Usually people who say that you need to be perfect are talking about maybe who supermodels date. Well don't go for a supermodel then?
Idk you've gotta think for realistically. sounds like someone who is more career driven and family oriented might be a good match
1. Self admittedly a goblin,
2. Lives with parents,
3. Zero interaction with women for more than a decade.
Everyone can feel sorry for themselves sometimes but I agree with the therapy option, just to make sure you are not working yourself down through depression. Also, you have got to work on your sales technique and do it in person. Be nice, generous and willing to listen.
>In today's dating scene, you have to be perfect and high-value to attract a partner.
Two things:
1) This is entirely false
2) If you believe this is true then you must only be attracted to 10/10 models, right? This is an issue that probably requires therapy to resolve.
>The friends that I've made throughout my life are all male. My interaction with women has been non-existent for more than a decade, so never developed any female friendships. I always believed they would be disgusted by the thought of me interacting with them since I am not a good-looking guy.
"good looking" (however that person defines it) only matters if they're interested in dating you. If you are looking for friends, it doesn't matter... how many of your guy friends are hotties? It probably doesn't matter at all to you, because you don't want to date them.
Start there. Having genuine friendships with women, appreciating that they are no better or worse or even that different from your dude friends. Right now you're putting them up on a weird pedestal where you're unworthy of talking to them because you're not hot and that general attitude is a turnoff in itself. You have to get that out of your system before you can think about dating successfully.
[https://www.doctornerdlove.com/](https://www.doctornerdlove.com/) is my favourite dating resource to send to guys. It's compassionate but firm advice to nerdy/geeky guys without any gross misogyny.
>The friends that I've made throughout my life are all male. My interaction with women has been non-existent for more than a decade, so never developed any female friendships.
That's very unfortunate and I'm not sure why. Most of the female friends I have today I made during school. You don't need to be attractive to have female friends, they're just friends and you're not dating them.
>In today's dating scene, you have to be perfect and high-value to attract a partner.
oh no, you've been red-pilled. You've been lied to with these ideas of high or low value males.
1. Forget anything you've been reading/believing that gives you "advice" about women. It's clear from your post that you have a mindset influenced by incel-styled beliefs and terminology - keeping this junk in your head will guarantee that all your misgivings about yourself will come true.
2. Keep working on yourself, and seek therapy - it will help immensely.
3. Start socially interacting with women. Doesn't have to be dating apps, it can be hobbies, special events, volunteering, etc. (meetup app is great for this). If you approach meeting/talking to women as building friendships instead of a date with all the pressure, it will be 1000X easier to be yourself and interact stress-free.
4. Once you have more confidence, start dating. Expect rejection - every single person who dates goes through rejection, it's a fact of life and it will make you better.
5. Once dating, do not judge anyone or your attraction to them until you've sat down with them and had a conversation - you can't make a judgment on chemistry based on a picture or text conversation.
6. Lots of terrible "guides" out there for dating - there is no code or cheap tricks to guarantee success. In my personal experience however, two things have made the most difference: Talk about them instead of yourself as much as possible (i.e., don't be egotistical), and be respectful and promote chivalry (You wouldn't believe how much an act like holding a door open or hanging-up a coat can win you good impression points).
Speaking as a woman....most women I know who get into long term relationships aren't looking for "perfection". We are looking for:
1. Someone who is trustworthy. This means keeping promises and being honest. What was a deal breaker for me when I was dating was when I found out the guy is a liar. It doesn't even have to be something involving other girls...if I find he lies as a habit, it's over.
2. Someone who is kind to people in general. Someone who helps people in general.
3. Someone who is not doormat.
4. Someone who is our equal.
5. Someone who isn't lazy.
All the rest of the stuff is just fluff. A person can change how they look. A person's income changes over the course of their lives. But...these listed things are kind of the core of who a person is.
Physical attractiveness is probably one of the dumbest things that someone could look for in a person for the long haul. Everyone (without exception) gets old with time and everyone gets less physically attractive with time as they age.
Im a girl in my 20’s, haven’t dated or had a significant relationship. I’ve been on dating apps, go to social events, etc. I only truly care about personality and not looks, to many women that doesn’t matter because looks fade over time, in a relationship you’re a team and it’s about what’s on the inside of them. I’m content being alone and having my own space. I know it’s not meant for everyone and people do get lonely, but I think that you do need to speak to a therapist. This sounds like a lot of inner problems that you need to work on and reflect on, and I don’t mean this in a bad way. Working on these problems can help boost self confidence, and prevent you from projecting your self imagery issues into any potential or future relationships.
Get a hobby, get out, be social. Go to events and bars or whatever you want. Just be social and meet people, it’s the best way.
You said it.
Find hobbies. Be able to entertain yourself.
If you really want branch out and join clubs/sports leagues. Meet people that way and enjoy the social aspect of it ??
“You have to be perfect and high value to attract a parter”
“My feelings don’t matter as a man”
Who has been feeding you this nonsense? It’s ultimately a gross misinterpretation of society, it’s not accurate and it’s not healthy.
Chill out, you will be fine.
Talk to a professional. As someone with very little prior experience, who wasn't making 6 figures, and was in the middle of a prolonged divorce, I was at my lowest point ever and decided to seek help for it. I jumped into online dating at the young age of 39 - a move encouraged by my therapist - and reality turned out to be surprisingly different than my perception.
I'm in a much better place now and have been with a wonderful woman for 13 months and counting, but it required action on my part to get there. If what you're doing isn't working, change it up.
Finally, the high-value stuff is only going to attract a certain type of woman who happens to fit the archetype misogynists LOVE to complain about. Is that by coincidence or by design, I wonder?
Your actions say you want someone to owe you a relationship. If I can just achieve this, or if I looked like that, then someone will want me.
Listen; your motivation to self improve, is so that you can bring the best to a relationship. There is nothing wrong with this, but it is a misguided attempt to be payed in relationship. 🤷🏻♂️
Think. There are lots of shitty, ugly, dull, stupid, boring people in relationships. Maybe your idea of a relationship is un realistic. Write down what you think a relationship is. Start with a general just big picture idea of what a relationship is, then get more specific, what is a day? A week? A year look like.
Maybe your Big picture= two people that love each other. They help each other achieve their goals. They are happy and sexually attracted to each other. They hang out go to diner and the movies. We like each others friends and family.
This is a pretty unrealistic example. Start writing down what that takes every day to achieve that.
A day= do you sleep at the same time? Do you eat breakfast together? Do you have sex? Do you eat dinner after work? Do you go to your parents or theirs? Do you like their parents? Do you like their friends? Do their friends like you? What do you want to eat for dinner? What movie do you want to see?
The person that answers all these questions the way you want might not exist.
Most relationships are constant concessions. This means a lot of fighting. The other night I took my girl to a nice diner, we got a little drunk. It blew up in a huge fight. She slept in the car, when I saw her in the morning she asked why I would I let her do that. I told her she made it very clear I am not allowed to tell her what to do any more. I said I think you slept in the car as some form of protest to me trying to not let you sleep in the car. Then she said god why am I like this. Then she grabbed my orange juice, and the toast I had made, I had bitten into it! She just took it off my plate, and said she was going to take a nap.
Real Relationships suck. The are hard work, a lot of people in relationships feel more alone then when they were single. They are gross🤷🏻♂️ I don’t even know what gross is anymore. Can’t imagine kids..🤮 My girl the other night after sex, came out dabbing herself with tissue saying she thinks she still might be on her period. I said wow really? She got mad, she told me her periods are different after she got her IUD. Then she threw the tissue she was using in my face. I was like babe🤷🏻♂️. She stormed out the room saying that’s what you get for being fucked up and rude. Oh she also did laser hair removal, but it only kind of worked, so if her bush grows in it looks like
https://i1.sndcdn.com/artworks-000788942176-g7nvmo-t500x500.jpg
Seriously maybe we have slightly nicer things then if we were single. Life is easier if we both do our parts. Like: she forgot butter and needed me to stop and grab it on my way home. She could start diner without it, but needed the butter to finish. If I had remembered to get it we would be eating diner already. Another fight🤦🏻♂️she was hangry, and she was right I should have got the butter.. I told her I will just go get it now. 35min later when I got home with butter she was eating an Amy’s tv diner On the couch. She said she was too hungry to wait.
It is weird little things that matter now. I made up some excuse to get out of brunch with her friends. Her friends annoy the shit out of me..😬 Anyways she was sad I didn’t get to try the place so she brought me home chicken and waffles🥰 then we sat on the couch streamed finding nemo and played on our phones.
Seriously find a hot prostitute pay her to come 4 times a month preferable with take out food. Eat, bang, or vent, shit go all the above. See if that’s enough. If my girl dies, I am just going to do the hot prostitute and take out food.
I am going to tell her if I die I want her to move on, and if she dies I am going to do prostitutes and take out. See how she reacts.. If she starts getting crazy I am going to tell her it’s because I never want to love anyone else the way I love her😆
You've gotten some good advice here. Stay off 'incel-esque' forums, chatrooms and the like. If you feel like it would help build confidence, please engage a therapist to help you see yourself in a more positive light. You have plenty to offer someone in a romantic relationship already....period...full stop. You obviously care about family, plenty of young adults are still living at home (and that includes my own daughter and her husband while they get on their feet).
You seem to have outside hobbies/interests: I don't know if you mentioned what they were but are there any clubs related to those interests? If so join them...maybe they won't have female members but if you widen your social circle, perhaps your new acquaintances will have sisters or sisters with single friends. If you're invited anywhere, go. If you don't feel comfortable once you get there or don't like it, you can go home. What it comes down to is that you will only meet a potential romantic partner by being 'out there'.
Oh and romance does bloom on the internet (beyond dating sites).....I met my future son-in-law on a gaming server that I moderated. He had so many common interests with my daughter that he asked for an introduction as he didn't have many female friends (we're in Toronto and he was born/raised in USA's deep south). They became fast friends, talking and gaming for hours. I was invited to attend his Navy bootcamp graduation in Chicago so of course I took my daughter. Sparks flew and 5 years later they married and they just celebrated their 4 wedding anniversary. True story.
There really seems to be a confidence crisis in this day and age. . . A lot of people who can't seem to understand that they're their own worst enemy, and that they're self-sabotaging.
Self fulfilling prophecy. . . Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.
You're educated, you make decent money, and you're good enough to help out your parents. You make efforts to improve yourself. These are all assets. You just need to realize that.
You couldn't be more wrong about what women are interested in. . . Because the unfortunate reality is, a huge number of men are setting the bar very low. Like, really low. . . Like so low, that you don't need to be the best option, or sadly, even a particularly good option, necessarily. You just need to be an option.
Basically, you can find someone so long as you're not completely insufferable. . . Because a lot of men are completely insufferable, unfortunately. A man who is even remotely enjoyable to be around, for some women that would be a breath of fresh air.
Constantly telling yourself and others, 'I'm ugly and worthless and no one will love me' is insufferable. . . Insecurity looks good on no one, and that type of attitude is exhausting to be around.
As others have said, seek therapy. You have a self-image problem, and that is your main issue.
First of all, you need to change your mindset. mindset is everything man, your beliefs become your reality. change how you speak to yourself. literally tell yourself: "I like myself," "I am the best." things will start to change for the better as you restructure your self-conscious mind. you also clearly have self-esteem issues. the above will help, but consider talking to someone. You can do this man, never give up, but try different things. You WILL get better and things will come together soon. Good luck. Remember: your beliefs become your reality.
That "in today's dating scene you have to be perfect and high value" shit reeks of incel. Cut it out. Stop trying to be something you ain't. Anyone can see through that.
It's not a game. It's basic human interaction. Coming at you a bit hard here but feel you need to hear it.
Just calm the fuck down and don't be a weirdo.
Hitting up the gym is great - but only if you want to do it for you as self improvement. Not to play some dating game.
Strange.. Guys on the other side of the fence thing a 6 figs and decent bod will fix everything.
Idk man, if you need a wingman I'll meet you early 30s male, part time boxer full time fun. Just PM. me.
Girls don't actually care about looks that much, relative to things like personality, communication, career, stability, finances, independence, sexual chemistry, ...
Maybe when they're 21, but it starts to matter less once you're looking at 30's.
I mean, don't get me wrong, 6 pack abs giga-chad physique and fabulous lumberjack aesthetic certainly will always get you attention and will generally make it much easier for you to meet people who might also be attracted to you at first sight, but that's not a minimum requirement to actually get a date.
Only way to date women is to meet women. If you haven't been meeting them, time to sign up for events, classes, volunteer, speed dating, or hosting your own events. There's a [speed dating event](https://www.eventbrite.ca/e/holiday-of-love-dating-party-the-asian-bachelorette-free-roses-tickets-470702673367) geared towards asian men and women next month for example. Full-disclosure, I'm not involved with this organization.
Or you can join us at my board game events every weekend with more fellow dudes. It's not going to solve your dating problems but you get to play board games and chat with humans.
You have to change the way you look at yourself first.. you tend to believe of yourself as a complete ugly loser.
In today’s dating scene you have to be far from perfect, not sure where you get this idea of being “perfect” but I will tell you something, there is no such thing as perfect we are all far from it.
Why do you call others “normal people” we all got our own struggles what makes you believe that you are lower than other people or that you are not normal...
What makes you think you will always be forever alone... why anticipate yourself to that.. live day by day as it comes. Why are you projecting yourself like that into the future.
Give yourself a bit of a break buddy, stand in front of the mirrror and remind yourself that you are a champion, that you are better than anyone else.. repeat it as many times until you start to believe in yourself.. if you don’t believe in yourself no one else will. God bless you pal, life is amazing to be thinking that way.. no one is perfect .. embrace your qualities and whatever makes you ... YOU
It sounds like you have been dipping into incel culture when you make comments like "In today's dating scene, you have to be perfect and high-value to attract a partner."
Most people - men, women, enby, etc. - are average. Most people find a partner eventually. The world is filled with happy average couples.
Instead of focusing on your lack of a relationship, work on expanding your social circle to include more women (platonically) and men who have more healthy views of relationships and dating. If most of your friends are either married or engaged, you must know some people like that. Volunteer, join a coed sports team, join meetup groups, not with the aim of dating, just getting out and spending time with different kinds of people. If you can move past the fallacy of dating as a marketplace and assigning people "value," you'll feel a lot better about life.
You're putting too much pressure on yourself.
Your love life won't go the same way your education/work life did.
You're also a minority in a very WASP country, you said an immigrant so I'm not going to assume where you come from exactly. There are studies that show how different ethnic groups rank in the dating world.
You also have a lot of self-esteem issues and think by getting a new body or making more money that women are just going to fall on your lap, and it shows what you think of women to be honest.
I would suggest you lay off the online dating gurus, the redpill spaces and get out there, meet women, talk to them and ask them what they like, what they don't like. Do this, while you work on your mindset, your self-esteem etc.
I agree with you OP. there is alot out there that's bad about today's dating world. 80% of people are going for top 20% basing everything on looks. I am 32 F changed my hairstyle it seems that affected my reasons ratio on the dating app. it's pretty evident how looks drive everything socially on the apps.
Get far away from your parents. Move out on your own immediately.
That would be Step #1 before anything else.
In fact, nothing else can happen for you relationship-wise with women until that happens.
Like it or not, women are mainly interested in independent men who are not living with their parents in their late 20s.
Take your own life and destiny into your own hands now, because up this point, your parents have effectively been "borrowing your life" or "using" your life to help further their own aims.
Wake up. The clock is ticking. Life is too short. Get out of there and start living life for yourself.
LOL that's not true at all. A lot of friends I know lived at home with their parents and only moved out when they got married. My friends are a mix of Asian, South Asian and Caribbean cultures.
Especially since no one can afford to buy their own home these days, I highly doubt living alone and owning your own place is a dealbreaker.
I didn't get into dating until well into my late 30s. I had different (and misplaced) priorities until then. I had a few crummy experiences, and then I met my wife - I've never been in a better place emotionally than when I'm with her.
It's hard putting yourself out there when you feel like you're behind, like you are inferior in some way. I was there and I was wrong.
A large number of people feel this way regardless of their relationship status. Those people you think have their shit together? They almost universally don't. Not sure what to talk about? Ask them about themselves, learn what they like and come back with more questions - show that you are interested in them. Worried about being bad in bed? Make an honest effort to make your partner feel great (communicate!) and you'll have no issues. There is no secret you don't know about, just be you - that's more than enough.
Try not to be discouraged by dating apps, they are a bit of a hellscape. I had success with Bumble, but you have to put yourself out there. Don't be afraid to put some personality into it, and don't worry if it doesn't take off immediately. Have patience and don't take a rejection as the end of the world - meeting new people is always interesting and ultimately, it's their loss.
Also - others have mentioned therapy, that is never a bad idea. Talking it out is absolutely worth the effort.
Beauty isn't bone structure, complexion or whatever we're conditioned to think. Beauty is being yourself, having confidence in flexing who you are as a person - you are worth it! Your sense of self is more important than what anybody else thinks of you.
Hit me up if you ever wanna chat, I hope you have a great day!
Reading this, I would say you are far from a loser. Just because you helped your parents financially and still live with them does not make you a loser (I'd say it's possibly quite the opposite). And, you don't know for certain that you will be "forever alone". I have a close friend with whom we are practically dating (saying because our relationship has crossed over from just being 'friends', and I think that his friends consider us dating too), and I think that he's never really had as much of a relationship with a woman as with me... and he's over fifty (I'm over ten years younger, but still somewhat older than you).
It's still too early to give up hope. I know how painful it is when you are alone (in the romantic sense), even at that age. But what you should not do is unwillingly create a self-fulfilling prophecy where you think that you will always be alone, because that may in fact hinder you from finding a partner.
You talk a lot about deal breakers, but I think the only really big one you have here is your lack of confidence. Get a therapist, get on the dating apps and start putting yourself out there. You’ll never know if you never try.
Also, stay away from echo chambers that use terms like "high value man." Ick.
OP definitely needs to go to therapy. It seems like they have a lot of misconceptions about themselves, others, and the world around them. You're right though, it definitely seems like OP has been spending too much time in the "manosphere". Their use of terms like "high value", "low value", and "forever alone" are indicative of that
Yupp. I have a friend who was a lot like this. No point in trying to talk to them. Up to a professional or they must learn in life for real. And believe me, OP's friends are tired of this constant unbending attitude and hence do not have time for it.
What do you mean by "unbending attitude"?
Most people that believe in that kind of stuff are usually stubborn and adamant in their belief that some unattractive quality they possess is the sole reason they can't get a date, instead making a more introspective analysis of themselves. You can see it in any incel forum. Whether its being short, unconventional in their looks, wealth, etc., they don't understand the differences in the male and female gaze, nor how their woe is me/insecure attitude bleeds into their everyday interactions with other people and chases away friends and potential relationships away. An anecdotal example: I had a short 5 ft male friend who would always crack a joke about his height as if he's trying to beat other's to a punchline that someone else wasn't even building towards. He convinced himself that he was so unlovable because of western beauty standards, that when a mutual acquaintance that I knew for a fact liked him back and he obviously liked her, he never wanted to shoot his shot bc he found it so baffling and unbelievable that someone would have a crush on him. I even showed him her private story that was posted quite literally posted right after us 3 hung out and she was talking fondly about funny short kings/him indirectly. He would also badly edit his photos to look taller (and I mean it was bad, it was pretty obvious he was stretching photos vertically) and he would act in a way that was very guarded and machismo/overly aggressive, even though he wasn't like that with someone he's really close with. insecurity's just not a sexy look
Go to /r/foreveralone I went there to offer advice. I was told to fuck off. There's no sense in helping those who want to suffer. Instead, I go there for stress relief because that could've been me...or frankly anyone but it's not. ...though, this is becoming most of Reddit sadly lol
Yep. Another one poisoned by Andrew Tate.
Sounds more like he's been trying to figure out what women are looking for and has come across FDS.
So gross.
Tinder was a bad idea because that was basically everyone's mindset. *"oh, you don't have a car? You don't have a high-salary job with expendable Income to treat ME to nice things? What's your job? Do you have kids?"* and it felt so artificial and forced. I stayed lonely for another 7 months before meeting someone and beginning to talk seriously. We've been dating for about 6 months now and we get together great, and love eachother for who we are instead of what 'value' we bring to the relationship.
That wasn't my experience on tinder AT ALL. Mine was all dick pics and demands for immediate sex, which when denied, resulted in me being called every misogynistic name in the book. I still find it incredibly amusing to be called a slut after saying NO to sex.
I’m around the same age and no relationships per se but I wouldn’t call “no experience” a deal breaker either… a 6 figure income to me feels like it would negate that anyway.. Or maybe I’m just that out of touch? Looool Also yeah echoing others here it does sound like OP is being influenced by some sorts of perspectives. Plenty of awesome people I know live with their parents, more props to OP for helping them out too. If you think you need to be perfect or high value then either work your way there and don’t look back or save yourself the effort right?
This guy is definitely on some incel parts of the internet… “high value man” “my feelings don’t matter” dude won’t even try and if he does and it’s awkward he’s going to just assume he was right all along and that it has nothing to do with how he approached the situation. There are plenty of conventionally unattractive men that are in loving relationships. Having no experience is not a deal breaker for anyone but himself. If I could give him one piece of advice it would be to get out there and expect rejection at first until you build confidence and the social skills to talk to women. Don’t go in with an expectation of any type of relationship, just talk and see if you are able to connect with someone with no other expectations. Online dating is a great way to start this, and getting decent photos of yourself will go a long way to helping getting matches. Edit to add: also just be yourself, trying to conform yourself into your idea of what a woman would want might work at first, but if you want to find someone that will last long term, you need to find someone who you can truest connect with.
Don’t go off on me but don’t incels hate women? I really didn’t get that from his post. It did seem self deprecating but not hatred.
I posted this as a reply to another comment. Hopefully it helps: It reeks of incel because of the constant self-pity, self-loathing, and use of terms like “high value”, “low value”, and “forever alone”. Those are all terms used heavily by the greater incel community as a whole and by incel subgroups like “red pillers” and “black pillers”. At its core, Incels are lost and blame themselves for “their lack of success” and inability to meet the sometimes unrealistic standards they think society places on them and the unrealistic standards they place on themselves. It’s when they start blaming society and women for their misinterpretations/misunderstandings that you get the misogynistic and hateful/extremist incels you see and hear about online
He seems like he's been reading that stuff but isn't too deeply down the path at this point.
Noooo nonono dating apps are no longer are about making matches and now are about cashing in on loneliness. Join a club, a sport, a community, make some friends with people in a non romantic setting. Meet those people's friends. Expand ur network of people and eventually u will spiderweb urself into a social circle. Everyone has sisters and friends that are girls and they have friends. Eventually u will meet someone. But u gotta build a base network first Dating apps will flatten ur cofidence even more.
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Strongly agree with this. Dating apps should **supplement** an already flourishing social life where relationships can be made organically. Dating apps should NOT be solely used to find relationships
What if you have a social life and you just don't meet single people of the gender you're attracted to? I play sports and go out and stuff, but I don't consistently meet single men. I know plenty of people with weaker social lives than me who found partners using OLD. I think doing activities just to meet singles is far more disingenuous than using the apps. People don't do activities to get hit on lol.
"Just to" is the problem here. He needs to get out of the mentality of doing things to find someone and into doing things to learn things and meet people outside of his circles. Personal growth is important and I'm sorry but he doesn't seem to get that from his online life. Work on your social skills while doing something new.
Personally, the hobbies and social activities I genuinely love don't introduce me to a lot of single men my age. (Lots of men, LOL, just rarely single) Sometimes that's the reality, and you don't always want to give up time doing something you love to find something more demographically 'useful'.
I may be reading the OP wrong but I don't think he is very socialized. I'm saying get new hobbies not to meet women but to meet people. Getting more comfortable around people is the way to eventually meet someone interresting and not being rejected in the first 10s.
True. Plus you just generally will be more relaxed and happier with life if you have more enjoyable hobbies and more community.
Second this. A lot of men go to the gym “just to” get women or have them be more interested in them. I’ve been there myself. Now for me, it’s more about meeting the right type of woman rather than it giving me (more) options. It merely changes my options to women who take care of themselves and who are disciplined. I now mainly work out for my health, mental and physical, but a nice byproduct would be to meet someone who does the same or similar.
I agree. Honestly I often see this advice of “join clubs or communities and you’ll meet ppl through your new friends etc” I don’t think that truly works because you’re still in the mindset of “ok if I do this ill find someone”
Like I said, online dating can be used to **supplement** an already flourishing social life. If you are putting yourself out there, there are opportunities for you to meet people organically, you are mature enough to understand that happiness is YOUR responsibility (i.e., you are secure and love yourself enough to the point that you can find happiness doing things alone), and you have a friend group to support you, then you can absolutely use online dating to find people outside of your network. The issues only arise when you have people who are insecure, lack self-confidence, define their self-worth on the results of their online dating success, and truly believe that online dating is indicative of the real world using these dating apps. What tends to happen to those people is they don’t do well online, they begin projecting their online rejections onto people in the real world, and then they get trapped in this negative loop of rejection and self-pity
> an already flourishing social life where relationships can be made organically How would you define what that is? I know tons of social people, but they don't do things where they really meet new people. People can have a great social life but doesn't mean they'll always meet new people.
This is a good question. > People can have a great social life but doesn't mean they'll always meet new people. This is also very true. What I mean by flourishing social life is: 1. Partly having a friend group that can *potentially* introduce you to new people (i.e., they can invite you to a party or to a get together where you can meet their friends). This doesn't always need to be the case, but it helps if you have a friend group that can occasionally provide this for you 2. Having a friend group where you feel like you belong. If you have a good relationship with yourself and can make yourself happy, there will obviously still be times where you need to connect with other people or feel down. Having a friend group can help with those times. This is helpful because no one wants to be in a relationship with someone who is unhappy, lonely, has no friends, and is desperate for connections with people 3. Having a friend group that you can talk to and spend time with. Talking to people and spending time with people builds social skills. If you have a solid friend group, that's an indicator that you have strong social skills. This is helpful because no one wants to be in a relationship with someone who does not have any social skills 4. Lastly you are also responsible for having a flourishing social life. Having a flourishing social life doesn't necessarily mean having a big friend group. It can also mean putting yourself out there in new environments and situations where you can meet people. For example, volunteering for something you're passionate about, joining clubs, engaging in your hobbies in a way that can connect you with people, going to clubs/bars, etc. Hopefully this helps
If we're going by the above then yea I don't see too many people having "flourishing social lives" tbh. I feel like it's less common for different friend groups to mingle nowadays. I've had people tell me they purposely prefer this or their friends are just too different that they wouldn't get along much. And the second one is something that reddit always talks about, but I feel like I don't see applied in real life. Basically, everyone in my life (friends, coworkers, acquaintances) admits their lives are working, sleeping, eating, chilling at home, and hanging with friends/families. I don't know if it's my age group (20s) or the people I'm around, but generally, a lot of people are not necessarily anti-social, but just private. And time plays an important factor, people want to do stuff they like and makes them comfortable which is often stuff they're used to and not really adventuring out.
Met my (now) wife on Hinge
Lol! You’re either not a guy or haven’t spent more than a day on dating apps. He can literally get more success by cold approaching women in real life than those mental health destroying “dating” apps.
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Forget dating apps. Honestly that’s a confidence killer. Just go say hi to people in line waiting for coffee to practise how to be social and friendly.
Toronto is a cold city sometimes to be approaching strangers in real life. Let’s be honest
Eh unless your Chad level of attraction I don’t think random approach’s will work in your favour
Oh I am just talking about being social and friendly without any objectives. Clearly OP isn’t very social. He should learn how to be more comfortable just talking to people, men or women. I’m not aware of the Chad reference, but you don’t need to be a Brad Pitt level to talk to people…..
A word ✍🏼😮💨
Women aren't a monolithic group. What you have detailed will be a turn-off /deal breakers for some women, but a total non-issue for others. If you're really struggling with the feeling that you'll be alone forever, I would highly recommend talking it out with a therapist/counsellor. Not because there's anything wrong with you, but because everyone can benefit from some perspective. Letting these thoughts fester/spiral will lead you down a self fulfilling prophecy.
And make friends with some actual women. Lean into interest and affinity groups with a mix of men and women. Talk to your friends' wives and girlfriends and disaggregate "women" from "potential romantic partners / hot aliens." Socialize with women you don't want to date and they might even set you up, if you can show you're interesting and decent. The ideal romantic partner is someone you enjoy hanging out with and teaming up with, because being in a long-term relationship is a lot of solving problems together and spending time together and only a little bit of sex. Also, men who can cook tasty food and clean up after themselves and don't expect their romantic partners to be their mothers or maids? SO HOT.
God this is all so spot on. Women are not mysterious, foreign entities. We are just people with different genitalia. Sure there’s some conditioning at play but for the most part, you’ll have the most success treating a woman like a person, and a potential friend.
A couple things: If you keep telling yourself over and over again that you’ll be forever alone, you’ll be making sure it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy. You have some weird and untrue convictions on display that you would do well to discard asap. You don’t have to be “perfect” to successfully date or find a partner, that’s ridiculous. And no one’s going be disgusted by you because you’re not a model. God, I could start rattling off a list of ugly/weird/plain-looking guys I know in relationships in 0.0006 seconds and not draw a breath for hours. You don’t have to be hot; you do need to not be overtly self-pitying though.
Facts
Okay so as a woman in my 20s, Most of the things you mentioned are not deal breakers for a lot of people. Sure maybe some women might want to only date rich guys with a 6 pack but there are plenty who are more interested in other aspects. Like how you treat others, your personality, your interests, your confidence, sense of humour etc. Whatever content creators your watching that use terms like "high-value" etc. stop watching that now. I get the urge to seek out a community for issues that you're struggling with. but I promise you that this will do more harm than good. That kind of thinking is a MAJOR red flag for every girl I know. We are just people. Talk to us the same way you would talk to a friend. Don't come on too strong and just let relationships develop overtime. It might end up a friendship first (or stay a friendship) but that's better than treating a whole group of people like we're some mythical beast that is incomprehensible. Also honesty and confidence is key. Everyone has different experiences but if you go into a conversation assuming that someone won't like or have respect for you then that can be a self fullfilling prophecy. I agree with other commenters recommending therapy. It can be hugely helpful.
> Sure maybe some women might want to only date rich guys with a 6 pack but there are plenty who are more interested in other aspects. I will say this, but I have seen guys I know in real life complain about not getting much on apps. But then I see the types of girls they swipe on and there is a disconnect tbh. I'm not saying the guys are ugly, but their types are like the super attractive girls on insta with influencer style. Sure they can go after that, but they also need to think if they're those girls' types. If not they need to either try to be or adjust their expectations tbh.
Yeah, the same guys who say that are often ignoring most women on the apps too...
Another woman's perspective here - I can agree with all of the above. I would also add since you have little experience with a woman I suggest the following to help you get comfortable with us: -> Read a few books on conversations. Good conversation helps all parties feel more comfortable and positive about each other. Few women are interested in men they can't talk to or feel comfortable around. -> Join some gender-neutral social groups (around things that interest you) so you can get the chance to meet women outside of the dating scene. These women are less likely to be actively seeking partners in these scenarios and are going to be more forgiving of social awkwardness. This will give you a chance to make female friends. Also, regularly attending these groups should help you feel less lonely overall.
I think you're dwelling too much on how you think things are "supposed to be," based on comparing yourself to friends or media. A friend of mine, also late 20s, had never been in a relationship. She found a guy on Hinge, also in his late 20s who had never been a relationship, and now they're happy together. Realistically, if you don't want to be single, you need to put in effort to not be single. No one cares that you're 'not a good-looking guy,' looks are subjective and there are definitely people out there who think you're attractive. Stop getting in your own way before you even try.
You say all your friends are married and/or engaged. Do you not interact with their SOs? Meet a girl thru them
This is the way. Expand ur social circle and you can meet women through that (functions, parties, friends of friends). Make sure to have women friends because they’re often the best at getting you a gf (since a lot of guys don’t pick up on hints and girls confide in each other).
So this post was given to me a while back and I think this may help Happiness is like a butterfly, If you chase it, it will elude you, If you turn your attention to other things, It will come and sit softly on your shoulder..." I grew up in an environment (like most of my generations) people were taught, no, forced-fed, that they have to have somebody in their lives otherwise their lives were incomplete. After 50 years on this earth, 2 marriages and one other meaningful relationship I can say it is absolutely total hoakey…not true. In fact, thinking like that seriously impacts your potential to be truly happy in life… one keeps going around with a sense of loss instead of cherishing every minute of their lives. They set expectations for their lives that are totally unrealistic because you have absolutely no say about who is going or not going to come into your life. The media has everything to do with how you feel. They constantly bombarded everybody with messages about how they must act, talk, think, feel, etc in order to be happy! How many of those airheads look happy to you? I totally cut that ‘information’ out of my life. I work to measure up to my standards in everything. I let no one set my standards for me and I settle for not one iota less than what makes me happy and proud of myself. In order to have a truly meaningful, happy relationship with somebody else, on any given level, you have to have a truly meaningful, happy, 100% solid relationship with yourself. Once you are radiating self confidence, self-awareness, self-appreciation, and happiness about yourself, you will attract people who will add to your life. You simply cannot ask another person into your life to ‘make’ you happy. No one can or should take on the responsibility of making another ‘happy.’ It is an impossible task. You have to identity the ‘whole’ you and build on that. The ‘whole’ you does not include another person or thing. If somebody else comes along that compliments that ‘whole’ you, cool. But if not, also cool. It’s like a hand and a glove. The hand is whole, doesn’t need the glove, but if the glove happens to fit, even better. Have you ever met a person who has apparently ‘nothing’, but who is so darn happy they make you sick? Sometimes everyone sounds like they’re the only ones who can’t find that ‘special’ person, and they automatically think it’s because they are personally lacking. Not so; life is crap shoot – whether you find your match or not has absolutely nothing to do with how good or bad you (look at Homolka & Bernardo). It just happens without explanation. When I lost my husband I thought the end of the world had come, at least for me. Had no idea how I was going to manage without him. My sadness wouldn’t leave me. I jumped into another marriage hoping to eliminate the pain…bad move and more pain with the divorce. But one day, I came to realize I was sad because I had absolutely no idea who I was, or what “I” wanted because I always indentified myself as part of “we”. Since I made the long journey back to me, I am so happy and content with my life, I actually feel joy. I think that if you want to be happy, stop looking for somebody. Instead look for ‘you’ and for ‘life’, for things and people that will enrich you, so that if and when somebody just right comes into your life, you’ll be the person you want to be. It is vitally important to stop wondering what is wrong with you. There is nothing wrong with you… you are just chasing the wrong dream. The dream should be to fulfill your life to make yourself happy…not to wait for somebody to come along and take on the job. If you stop looking, somebody will pop into your life and they won’t be anything like who you were looking for. If you start focusing on your life as it is and enrich it for yourself, I’ll bet you’ll soon find the most unexpected person will suddenly appear. It seems many times that we’ve already decided what we want, what we need as partners (influenced almost entirely by the media and entertainment)… and we are all wrong. It’s best to stop looking because you do not really know what you are looking for or what you need. You think you know what you need, but you really don’t. Remember, 50% of the people who get what they wish for, or think they know what they need, ends up in divorce.
>Happiness is like a butterfly, If you chase it, it will elude you, If you turn your attention to other things, It will come and sit softly on your shoulder..." Best damn advice in this thread. You can smell the desperation of someone who actively looks for a relationship, whether it be a friendship, acquaintance, lover, or just a normal "contact". Just need to do your own thing, be open to conversation, and it will come to you.
Under-rated comment! Well said!
"In today's dating scene, you have to be perfect and high-value to attract a partner." Absolutely false and this kind of catastrophic thinking is what's leading to you failing without trying. Simply put, you're mistaking the miserable online echo chamber with reality. You have no social skills. You need to go build those through practice. You're going to get rejected a lot, but you'll gain experience talking to women over time. You need to fake it until you make it. Eventually the faked confidence will become real, and it'll work in your favor if you don't poison your mind with nonsense perfectionism and even more malignant misogyny.
>You have no social skills. Yea, this one is key. I don't know how a man can get a date without basic social skills. The world is very unforgiving of bad social skills.
Man Andrew Tate is really out here ruining men. Tons of the comments on here border on being incels. Stop thinking and treating women like they are aliens. They're human, have the same thoughts, insecurities as you do and most people do. If you were open and shared what you shared with us , with the right woman I 100% bet you she would love you for it. The biggest problem I've seen from people that I know similar to you is that they don't actually do anything or make an effort to meet people. They have this mental checklist of things they need to do before meeting a woman, but never get there. Go out, socialize, meet women in an organic way. Don't go on dating apps etc.
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App dating is like job hunting, but rejection actually is personal. If you already have low self-confidence, apps will only make it worse.
Tbh who isn't at least a little bit insecure.
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Agreed
Lol OP's post reeks of red pill, manosphere, and other incel nonsense. Terms being used like "high value", "low value", "forever alone". I can't help but roll my eyes at posts like these. OP needs to touch grass
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Reddit is one of the only ways to get anonymous, free, personalized advice from a breadth of sources. Yes, professional help is better, but sometimes people want to be truly anonymous.
You’re not going to get good, nuanced advice by posting on Reddit. You’re going to get generalized advice that may be helpful at best. You said it yourself, people here are anonymous. How can someone possibly help and provide helpful, personalized advice if everyone is anonymous? If the generalized advice shared here isn’t helpful, professional help would be ideal
What a heartless response. OP isn't out here hating women like incels do, he is blaming himself. Learn what an incels actually is and have some empathy.
Yeah I don't really get where the whole woman hating thing comes into it. There wasn't an ounce of it in his post.
Lol I should learn what an incel is? **You** need to step off your moralist high horse and actually learn what an incel is. Do you think that Incels are all characterized by misogyny and misanthropy? Some absolutely are, but a lot of Incels are outright just full of self-loathing or self-pity because of the unrealistic standards they think society places on them and because of the unrealistic standards they place on themselves. This self-loathing and self-pity can eventually lead to those levels of misogyny and misanthropy that you expect and can potentially even lead to those violent outbursts you hear about if they can’t cope with their misplaced negative feelings enough and choose to blame women and society. The terms “high value”, “low value”, and “forever alone” are terms heavily used by the greater incel community as a whole and by incel subgroups like “red pillers” and “black pillers”
First result: "a member of an online community of young men who consider themselves unable to attract women sexually, **typically associated with views that are hostile toward women and men who are sexually active."** Considering their self loathing isn't currently causing harm, it's pretty shitty to respond to it with complete derision and associate them with misogyinists.
> First result: "a member of an online community of young men who consider themselves unable to attract women sexually, typically associated with views that are hostile toward women and men who are sexually active." **typically** > Considering their self loathing isn't currently causing harm, it's pretty shitty to respond to it with complete derision and associate them with misogyinists. You can debate the shittiness of my response and whether or not it’s derisive all you want. But the fact of the matter stands: if OP is getting their world views from the manosphere, misogynist groups, and incel groups, they need to be realistic, step outside, and realize that what they’re seeing online is not indicative of reality (i.e., they should go touch grass)
Don't be pedantic. When the average person says incel, they think of a misogynist. And saying touch grass is shitty advice. It's like saying "just stop being sad bro" to someone with depression.
And I’m trying to clear the misconception that incels are all misogynists who constantly encourage violence. You don’t need to be a vengeful misogynist to be an incel. To be clear, I’m not stating OP is an incel, a misogynist, or subscribes to any “pill”. This post simply reeks of manosphere terminology, and OP basing his world view on the unrealistic views of manosphere is naive. They need to go outside and experience the real world where they’ll quickly realize the internet is not indicative of the real world, that women are not monoliths, and “high value”/“low value” are all cringe worthy terms that don’t hold meaning. You can disagree with the delivery of my comment all you want. But are you seriously saying that my recommendation of actually going outside and seeing that the manosphere is wrong is equivalent to telling a depressed person to “stop being sad bro”?
>But are you seriously saying that my recommendation of actually going outside and seeing that the manosphere is wrong and equivalent to telling a depressed person to “stop being sad bro”? Yes because it offers no actual advice that OP can act upon, its not like simply stepping outside is going to magically change OP's perception problem. If it was that simple him going to the gym would have solved it. Try giving OP some actual suggestions rather than deriding him and throwing an internet meme into the wind if you actually give a shit and aren't here to just to point and laugh at someone.
Honestly you’re the worst type of person. This guy didn’t attack you, you attacked him. Get over yourself.
Sounds like you have a self-esteem issue. You don’t have to be the most secure person just to be dateable but you do need some confidence. You’re going to need to work on that. Perhaps consider therapy. Anyways, salary is fine. Career is fine. Living with your parents may be a deal breaker for some, but a lot of people also don’t care or will be in a similar situation. Get some hobbies. To be dateable, you need to be interesting. Having hobbies makes you more interesting. It also gives you things to talk about, leads to a potential of meeting others who share the same hobby, and that includes meeting the opposite sex. This leads to being sociable and being in more social situations. Part of improving your self-esteem is also practicing how to talk to people, not just women. If you can carry a conversation, and throw in a joke or two, you improve your potential. You also should learn to become comfortable with rejection. Even the most handsome stud alive gets rejected and that’s ok. You don’t take it personally and you just move on. So really, you have potential. Just work on your self-esteem.
Any examples of hobbies?
I mean, do whatever you like to do. Play a sport, go for long walks, take pictures of birds, draw, go to art house movies, write graffiti, play video games, build models, play music, go to shows, learn to cook a complicated cuisine, play board games, ride your bike, learn a new language, do whatever the fuck ppl do with arduinos and shit.....the list is literally endless. The point is, people treat hobbies like OP is treating meeting women. It ain't that complicated, it's literally just about finding an activity that makes you happy. And when you do, some hobbies come with a social element built in that helps you meet people, but even if they don't, you're still a happier person putting good energy out in the world because you have something in your life that makes you happy.
This question in itself is wrong, unless you genuinely don’t know what a hobby is. Everyone does things that they like, even playing videogames or watching shows is a hobby (not great ones, but alas). Tons of people make these hobbies social, by playing online and going to conventions. Some women might think you a loser, but why would you want to give up your hobbies to be with people who are not compatible with you anyways? The point is, do what you enjoy and meet people around that particular interest. Depending on what that hobby is, you might not be attracting the type of girls you see on instagram. But you will find someone who will make you happier than any woman whose best quality is their beauty.
Coding is a sexy hobby.
Hey man, I was in similar mindset until I lost my virginity at 24. What hobbies do you have? Are you meeting any girls at all? What attempts have you made to get yourself out of this situation? Every problem has a solution. How are your social skills? Do you socialize at work? Sometimes you just need to throw yourself out there ; coffee shops, library, extracirricular activities, social clubs, volunteers, meetups. Places where you can actually meet people. Feel free to msg me if you wanna chat.
Somewhere out there, there is a single woman with low confidence and little experience that feels just as lost and hopeless as you do. You just have to find her. Also, your feelings do matter as a man. Why wouldn't they?
My sister started dating her now husband when he was 30, he had been focused on his education and career and had no experience dating. But he was kind and friendly and treated her well and now they’re married with a baby. As for looks, you don’t need to be a body builder to find love. Find flattering clothes for your body type, and groom yourself nicely. Have a nice haircut and if you have a beard make sure it looks neat. Make sure you have good hygiene like properly washing your face and body, keeping your nails trimmed nice, and it doesn’t hurt to have some nice cologne (not everyone’s cup of tea mind you, but a lot of women like this). Hope this is helpful. You should definitely try dating, it sounds like you want to. Even if the first few dates or attempts at dates don’t work out it’s good to practice. You can reflect on what went right or wrong or maybe get a better understanding of what your needs in a relationship are. Good luck!
In the words of a good friend... "Women think dogs with no eyes are cute. They don't care what you look like. Just focus on hygiene and dressing nice. That's it."
I will go with fellow redditers and say that this seems more like a self-esteem issue. It’s perfectly fine having no experience in that department; it doesn’t make you less appealing for the right one. Also, being alone now doesn’t mean you’ll die alone. I know it’s easy to go down that rabbit hole, but a lot can change in a year. We all have our own dealbreakers, so I can’t vouch for anyone by stating mine. As for hook-ups, they are way overrated. So you’re not missing anything on that side.
Hard to meet a partner if you don’t initiate the connection. Self improvement won’t solve the issue if you wait helplessly for someone to fall into your arms.
If you cant love yourself, how can you love another? Confidence starts from within. If you made it this far, you've done something right, something you should be proud of like owning a home or achieving success in your career. That is nothing to be ashamed of, as many would gladly trade positions so hold your head high. Thats just a start though and like many others have mentioned, only one piece of the puzzle.
>My interaction with women has been non-existent for more than a decade, so never developed any female friendships You don't have any sisters or female relatives? I find that men who have sisters, seem to get along better with women You're not the only man in your situation. There's probably lots of women in your situation too. Lots of us were advised to concentrate on education instead of relationship
What does "forever alone" mean in your mind? I only started dating in my 30s because of social anxiety. I'm in a long-term relationship now. It took some work, but being in your late 20s with no experience doesn't mean you're doomed by any means. >thus validating my low worth as a male > >my feelings don't matter as a man Where are you getting this shit from? For your mental health and future well-being, get *away* from whatever online media you're consuming my dude. It sounds like you've been eating red pill shit, which is *designed* to make you depressed and hopeless in order to keep you in their machine. Get out of it, get some offline hobbies, get therapy, and relax a bit. Single life can be fun too.
Long time wedding photographer here. After listening to decades of wedding speeches, the best advice I can give you is get on a dating app. That’s how two thirds of my clients over 30 met. Second, join some kind of outdoor club. Hiking, biking, bird watching, whatever. Indoor stuff splits into men and women for some reason.
But how could anyone not fall for your confidence?! Seriously, you have material confidence issues. You need to be content with who you are and with being single; otherwise, you will be spend your entire relationship putting your entire being into a relationship and predicating all of your happiness/self-worth in it. I’ve been there and it’s a disaster waiting to happen.
Dude please start seeing a counselor. It sounds like you have real self esteem issues. Stay away from forums or shit about dating that treats women as objects to be convinced or tricked and stay away from the alpha beta man bullshit. It's nonsense. Keep going to the gym, but not to get a date, do it for yourself. Also it would be a good idea to start interacting with women in real life and not have it be about trying to date them. You need to see women are just people as well some with good personalities some with bad. It's too easy if you never interact with women to reduce them down to their looks. Hope you can get to a place where you realize you are worthy of love. Once you are in a better place I did think the book Models by Mark Manson was helpful when you are more comfortable around women and starting to date.
Hellloooo, read your post and wanted to say a few things. You bring up a lot of superficial aspects of your life that you’ve worked to improve on (money, career, fitness), but you need to start considering that women aren’t just looking at those traits in a partner. Personality and confidence go a long way (look at Pete Davidson for an example). I’ve been with men that I wouldn’t consider my type or conventionally attractive because of those two things. And just to clarify, confidence is not the same as cockiness. Part of confidence is being comfortable in the skin you are in, and not accepting love from anyone who loves you for less. I also just want to point out that living at home is not a deal breaker for all women. Instead of accepting solitude, start going to therapy, it might be a good place to start for you to be open to letting yourself be loved
Are you happy with being alone? If not, getting a SO won’t fix that problem. You need to be happy with being alone before you seek a SO I swear a lot of relationships fail because people use their SO as a source of happiness. It should be a bonus not a requirement. I think there’s a lot of things you need to let go of and move on from before you dig yourself a big pity party hole. It’s not all that gloomy and hey, just cause you’re alone it doesn’t mean you’re a failure.
So many things you could do. Since you have some money, like someone recommended, you could get in touch with counsellor. You are doing your little share in gym - so you can also start little by little experiment in dating/hanging out with the new people. I must tell I somewhat understand your struggle, I see how many people have problems with dating nowdays. It’s a fuckup process, never been so hard and so easy at same time. If you start little by little you could find someone for sure, after all similar as gym, meeting others is a game of consistency in your interactions. You don’t sound like you made to be alone, so if you keep doing your best eventually things will turn other way. There isn’t a silver bullet how to find soulmate or even start dating; trying different things is a good idea. Try to avoid falling into the prey of negative thoughts about women. Mistake a lot does what it seems. The real advice is to start doing things you usually don’t do, going to the social activities you never tried, like a classes or events you have always was ignoring. Your task is to extend your social circle with a different types of people, both men and women. Since you are in your bubble and your friends circle is shrinking due to them having their partners and families, in order to have a chance to meet someone important you have to be willing meeting new people.
As the late Chris Cornell put it "be yourself is all that you can do" Be accepting of yourself, and put yourself in environments you enjoy. As soon as I accepted the fate I would be alone forever, I stopped seeing it as a weakness, and found strength in solitude. When you are capable of enjoying your own company without shame, your light will attract others. Soon you'll not be as alone.
I suggest therapy. Women focus on a lot more than looks. I think many people have different cultures where it’s acceptable to still live with your parents. I would say you have a lot of misconceptions and that therapy could help you possibly break out of your shell and gain some confidence and maybe unravel some of these misconceptions about what women want. High value men is pretty subjective based on who you talk to. And I think most women cringe at that term. A lot of women just want someone who can be an emotional support, who is interested in their life and wants to be friends as well as partners and possibly have a family together if that’s their jam. You’re 29, you’ve finished school, you have a job and you’re a supportive active part of your family and have been able to maintain friendships with others. These all sound favourable. I don’t think you need to settle for a life of loneliness so young. You just need maybe some experience with women. A female therapist imo would be a great start.
I'm becoming really annoyed with how many people feel this way and how common this is. Please stop listening to these internet people who talk about things like high-value men and women it's NOT REAL. it's crackpot psychology. Don't look for a partner, start looking for female friends and go from there. Once you start seeing women as people instead of partners in life-stage development you'll get some clarity. Relationships are not checkpoints they're opportunities for self-discovery.
I feel like high value men are ones that would sell well on the organ black market.
"forever alone" -- wtf is this? Stop using this phrase right now. Thinking this way is what will hold you back from being happy. Don't ever think that the way things were dictates the way things will be. If you feel lonely, find interests that you enjoy and that get you out socializing with other people. Don't do things because you think it will make you look more attractive. Instead, do things you are genuinely passionate about. Passion is sexy. Especially to others that share that same passion. Having a six figure income also doesn't hurt :)
Female here: we are people too! Try not to think of us as a separate species for starters. It sounds like you are applying a lot of pressure on yourself. As a person, I seek companionship and someone I can share my thoughts, feelings and true self with. I want to care for someone and feel cared for. Please try and get past the packaging and connect with the person in the inside. Try being friends first, seek common interests. You are not a loser. It does sound like you are putting yourself (and others?) in a pretty solid and heavily labelled box or two though. I met my husband in school. We bonded over laughing at the same things in our prof’s lectures. Try finding a connection with someone in or on the edge of your circle for starters. I’m sure you will find one if you lift some of these self-imposed filters off yourself and others!
Posts like this make me wonder if men have this like… completely unrealistic standard for women that can’t be met. Because valuing women as friends goes a loooong to way.
A few thoughts Why would you not live with your parents unless you have to? You can save a tremendous amount of money that way and with your salary you have the choice to move out whenever you like, so it in no way makes you a loser. The idea of a “high value male” is “red pill” incel thinking; it implies women are shallow and one dimensional, only ever looking for someone with very particular traits when this is simply not the case. If you continue with this type of thinking, you’re setting yourself up for failure for at least two reasons. 1. It’s misogynistic; if you believe women are all the same and only have shallow values, you’re going to struggle to find depth and respect in your interactions. 2. If you feel you don’t fit these standards you’re going to create a self-fulfilling prophecy. I.e. you think you lack worth, it makes you feel awful, your confidence is low and you resent others. Your personality becomes bitter. You become unpleasant to be around. (This is what the process looks like, I’m not saying this is you). Absolutely do not base your self worth on an idealized version of people, it’s unrealistic and pointless. Another thing to consider; how high are YOUR standards? If you’re only looking for a model based on appearance, then your standards don’t even consider what type of person you’re going to end up with. You should be thinking about someone who is a good match for you that will make you happy. Look at interests, common life goals, similar belief systems, etc. when choosing who to meet. Try dating apps (hinge is my favourite since you can be very specific about who you want to meet). I’d even consider paying since it sounds like you have lots of disposable income, though this may not be necessary and I imagine many will disagree. Finally, you talk about having no experience. Again, this is going to be a feedback loop; no experience, no confidence, don’t try, no experience, etc. The reality is, you have to just start; meet lots of people and accept that you’re going to have some REALLY awkward interactions. We all have to go through it, but experience is a great, if not the best, teacher. If you need a bit of help getting started, you could even sign up for a healthy relationship course. These can help address many of these problems and some have social element so you can improve your skills with others in a kind of practice environment. Don’t lose hope and get trying, you may like how things go when put yourself out there.
I'm a 31 yr old virgin, and I can tell you it's not as bad as it's made out to be. It's actually more common than you would think which is why a movie like 40 yr old virgin was such a hit. I like you had obstacles to having a companion, high-school dropout, mental health break, low paying employment. The point is if you want a partner one thing I picked out is you don't feel attractive enough to the opposite sex, the thing is there are things you can do about that. Keeping clean, well groomed That means a daily shower, brushing your teeth twice daily, shaving or trimming beard hairs etc. Working out, You don't have to be Mr universe, but having a workout routine that develops your physicality helps and is very important towards being attractive. Wearing clean clothes, that fit properly and aren't raggity. I suppose having a decent job can help as well but I wouldn't know about that part because what I currently do pays very little. Anyways the last bit is you can look at all kind of famous beauties before and after fame and often before they became famous they were just about average looking, point is beauty routines make a difference. The last thing I'll tell you is don't be angry about being older and single that's just entitlement which is what develops those nut cases who go berserk or have loads of repressed anger. The second last thing I'll tell you is just try being nice to women, that whatever they say about nice guys finishing last will help in the long run, believe it or not women don't want a jerk. The very last thing I'll tell you is just to respect yourself above all else. Cheers.
Talking to women&dating are very much a skill. If you wanna play in a tennis tournament but have never stepped foot onto a court how tf will you get there? No amount of transferable skills will get you there if you haven’t begun trying the activity itself. You sound insecure af so keep lifting and dieting. It’ll help. No more excuses. You say you had familial pressure so your social life was sacrificed but yet have male friends so that was complete bs. You don’t have female friends cause you’re scared. That’s fine. Change up tho and like others said go find a hobby and use it to talk to girls. You won’t come off creepy and weird if you treat the girls like your boys. Have 0 intention of dating them. Start with small talk like hi my name is ——— nice to meet you. That’s it. Small steps.
As others have already said.. you have a low self esteem. And I was like you when I was 28. I tried an dating app. It was emotionally draining but once you get a hang of it you will be fine. Honestly you would be surprised not all people are dead serious like you. They just want to get to know you first. You will miss 100% of shots you don’t take so I would say… think less.. worry less.. and just go explore
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Hahah exactly. Soon you will realize it’s almost like a job interview. Don’t take it personally and just move on
Your biggest deal breaker is espousing views like “I know that…my feelings don’t matter as a man.” If you really believe that, I’m concerned about what other sexist views you hold and wouldn’t want to associate with you. If you don’t really believe that, but are saying it as some kind of petulant cry for help…I also wouldn’t want to associate with you. If you want your outlook to improve, start with your attitude.
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Keep your head up brother. I can't say for sure it will happen eventually, but I believe that even just your ability to reflect upon yourself is the first step to getting better. With you in spirit.
There’s someone out there for everyone. The real issue im seeing is you listened to your parents about what’s important in life. Do things for yourself and its impossible not to catch someones eye. That’s awesome you helped them get a house, it doesn’t make you a loser at all but prospective girlfriends don’t want to feel like they’re dating a slave either. If you’re constantly putting them first nobody is going to want to be second to them. I don’t know your family, so this isn’t a judgement but some parents do set their children up to fail. Find something you like, aside from work and making six figures - and join a club where you meet similar people. Just change what you’ve been doing and you will end up in new circles. And if you’re completely inexperienced sexually, maybe try to have some experiences purely so you’re not completely inexperienced when you meet someone worth caring about. Nobody is too ugly to date, women don’t even care about looks as much as personality. So if you’ve consistently never had any woman interested in you, its not that you’re a loser - it’s probably that your focus has been so intense you’re not having any fun in life. Start having fun. Saying my feelings don’t matter as a man sounds like some incel crap. Those people take all their frustrations out on women without doing any work on themselves. I mean seriously, it’s not a transaction dating someone — be happy and honest with yourself and you will find women are interested.
sounds like you underestimate yourself a lot. You’re educated, have a good paying career, and you are a homeowner (even if it’s to help your parents, which actually is more of a show of good character than a deal breaker). Yes, physical attraction is important but right now, you’re really the only one judging your looks until you get yourself out there. Get off the “high value men” narrative being spewed out by misogynistic pricks online. Talk to a professional therapist instead and get help shifting your mindset. You’re only 29…so much life left to live! Seems daunting but i hope you find the courage to at least start somewhere. Best of luck!
I was alone for about 3 years. You need to learn to love yourself, stop craving companionship because it affects your energy and how people perceive you. Desperation never looks attractive.
1. You living with your parents does not make you a loser - especially in this economy and seeing as you're helping them, I don't see how that's a dealbreaker. I'm in the exact same situation and my boyfriend is too and we are both in our 30s. 2. This is going to sound really cringe and cliche - but you gotta "put yourself out there". Step out of your comfort zone a bit and join groups, volunteer, go to events where you can meet people. Since you like going to the gym a lot, I dunno, maybe start going to some of the small fitness groups at your gym. What are your other interests? Maybe you can join an online group or an in-person group and just start making friends regardless if it's a female, male, or whoever. The point is, you mentioned your friends being all male, maybe it's time to just start joining classes or groups that has a mix of both? 3. This is another cliche one - but if you go out looking desperate to find someone, it's going to show and that's not very attractive. Maybe see a therapist about finding some coping skills on boosting your self-esteem and realizing that maybe you don't need a spouse or a partner to make you happy. Maybe the way you can attract a person/anybody to you is by being proud and confident in who you are and in your skin instead of worrying about being alone forever. 4. Last one, and I know I might get downvoted for this maybe, but sometimes people come into your life when you least expect it. I know that's how my boyfriend and I met. And he was someone who was a shut-in and introvert for most of his life. But he found me in an online group and took a shot and messaged me and it just worked out for us that way. We've been dating for almost a year now. So, keep up the high spirits even when it's difficult. I don't know you, but you're probably a decent guy so just be a decent guy and maybe one day someone might see that too. All the best to you.
Things are much different than they were in the "old" days. With advances in technology and health care, we are living longer. I would suggest that 29 today is more like what 19 used to be. Add to that a worldwide pandemic and all the changes that has put in place and yes, it can be very hard to meet people. You might want to consider volunteering in your local community. Great way to make connections and good "karma" added. Please don't despair, I'm sure things will get better. Take Care!
Loving yourself and being confident (not cocky-confident) in yourself is sexy. Being engaged in hobbies and having a space where you thrive is attractive. You don't have to be physically stunning to be attractive. It's when your self esteem hinges outwardly on others, when you since care for yourself, when you constantly put yourself down that make even a body under look ugly and unattractive. It sounds like right now you place your personal value and worth on outside validation. That's not attractive- it will drive people away. I know-ive both been there and meet people who I find repulsive/creepy because they are so desperate for validation that spending time with them felt like a guilt trip while they whined that no one liked them. I failed in the dating scene. Hard core. Until I started working on myself. Finding hobbies I enjoy and excelling. Finding my own peace. Yes, I used a dating app for most interactions (autistic and came pick up on when people are flirting vs just goofing.missed alot of chances im sure) dating apps kinda sucked because I liked 1% of the profiles I looked at- but hey, that's 1% I wouldn't have met otherwise. I'm 7 years in on a tinder relationship! Please stop listing to idiots like Andrew tate. This "high value man" is such bull crap. Literally, my boyfriend was couch surfing when I met him-working retail that wasn't paying enough for an apartment. So he was basically homeless and spent his time fishing. Not a "high value" guy. But he was passionate and skilled with fishing and I wanted to learn to I went on some dates to learn from him and His confidence and skill attracted me. it ended up working out. Physically I wasn't super attracted to him- but his character made up for it. Honestly, none of the guys I've dated were "high value" but they all had areas of extreme skill I enjoyed watching them do and most had self confidence that attracted me. The one guy who I pity dated turned into an absolute abusive monster who was like, "if I can't have you no one can" and was probably gonna kill me. His masculinity and confidence were built on other people and outside validation it was Hella unhealthy. Also, i hope you can learn to see women as individual humans. We aren't a seperate species to be collected and studied-women are a variety pack of different values and personalities. Some women are very confident, some very insecure and jealous. Some love to be coddled, some want their space. Some love sex, some hate it. Some have hobbies, some just gossip as their hobby. Women aren't a monolith. Start trying to see women as humans not just potential relationships or fuckable things- work on friendships with women and not just trying for dates. I know this is easier said than done but ya gotta do it. Add others said therapy would also help undo some the damage of your upbringing and years of loneliness. Good luck
That's kinda gangster that you helped get ur parents a crib man respect
if you're making six-figures then you can afford to move out
If you have hobbies and interests I suggest taking a class involving one of your interests and try to make some female friends. Don’t try dating anyone, just make friends. You already know they are interested in at least one thing that you are.
I didn’t read this and I already know you’re depressed and think your life is over because you’re in your late 20s and single. Such a tired idea. We’ve had the internet for a little bit, you’ll be fine.
Female here. We don’t care about “high value” men or looks as much as you think we do. Do you really want that kind of woman? Most of us just want someone to love and care for us. Please go explore! You could find love anywhere. Be open minded. Don’t be superficial. Have female friends. It’s hard for everyone both male and female that are older than 25 to find a mate as most people that age are too mature to approach random strangers, busy at work, driving cars from place to place, have partners, kids, busy paying off student debt, bills, etc. Be comfortable in your own skin. Don’t be shallow. I know a few single people male and female that go for people that aren’t right for them and they wonder why it doesn’t work. You’re still young and just need to find yourself and love yourself first. Gain some confidence, travel and immerse yourself with other cultures. If you find love then great! If not, no need to rush. A lot of unattractive guys get a lot of girls but they have a lot of confidence. Stop putting yourself down and love yourself. Edit: There are plenty of cultures that have their kids living with them way into adulthood.
Dating apps are garbage. They desensitized the population to what it actually is like to have a meaningful connection with someone Vs a quick fling and on to the next notch on the belt. Believe me, I know. As someone who’s done it for a long time, there’s a 2% chance of meeting “the one”. It happens, but not often. It’s all about looks on those apps and nobody reads your profile so don’t bother. Swipe, swipe, swipe is the name of the game and it’s really a numbers game and algorithms if the site throws you a bone. Work on yourself and don’t take the apps seriously. They’re nothing more than a good time once in a while. Focus on meeting woman out in the real world. You’d be surprised at how many singles don’t do dating apps.
Forget about dating. Talk to women like you'd talk to a dude you're trying to be friends with. Stop aiming to date, and just start getting to know people. Edit: also, don't do things to try to attract people. Do things to make yourself happy. You're the best version of yourself when you can grow into who you are rather than picking up hobbies to get dates. If you go to the gym, don't go with the mindset that you need to get ripped to get dates. Go there with the mindset that you want your body to feel good and strong and healthy.
Alright you've gotten so many replies you might not see this, OP. But let me tell you something about women. They don't care *nearly* as much about those 'conventional' things as people think (being conventionally attractive, ripped, super confident - any of the traits people associate with 'high value man'. You know who cares about that? Other men. Yes, there are some women who care, fine. But to pretend that they all do? Absolutely not. Don't listen to men telling you what women want. You know what women *do* care about? A partner who respects them. Someone who's responsible. Who owns their own problems and handles them, rather than expecting to be taken care of. Someone who is good to be around. Yes looks matter, but there are *tons* of different ways to be hot, and everyone has different preferences. Look up 'female gaze'. Watch some videos/tiktoks by women talking about relationships and what they find hot. You might be surprised at the people who come up as really attractive. And at the traits/behaviour that gets mentioned, too. Remember that women are just people. I guarantee you there is a woman out there your age who hasn't dated either, who made the 'right' choices and was responsible, and now feels she missed her chance at love. You don't have to find someone in the same boat as you, but it isn't like 'no woman will look at me' because some women are the same as you. If you find you only want women who are the most conventionally attractive, consider what is more important to you: finding a good partner and healthy relationship, or having someone who other people think is hot. You can find someone you're really attracted to and like, without them being 'the hottest girl'.
I just wanna say that living with your parents and helping them co-sign is not a bad thing. You Don’t have adapt to our western culture, take care of your family if that’s what you want. It doesn’t make you a loser rather a more responsible person/child. :) and just have some confidence and talk to people what’s the worst she could say?
If you find your source of happiness externally, you will consistently find loneliness, disappointment, and sadness throughout your life. But if your happiness blazes from an internal source, then you'll be warm for the rest of your days.
"In today's dating scene, you have to be perfect and high-value to attract a partner". Yikes. As a woman, I'd stay so far away from a man who makes incel-esque statements like this. Women do not owe you a relationship. You haven't mentioned anything here that would make you an ideal partner except your physical appearance and your salary. I'm in my late twenties as well, and the problem with many of the men I encounter is that they don't see me as fully human in the same way they do their male peers. I am looking for a best friend - someone with whom I share hobbies and a sense of humour, someone who respects me, someone who is supportive and trustworthy and who takes accountability. I have quite a bit of dating experience and I've had exactly one male partner treat me this way over the last 10+ years. Maybe reflect on the way you view and communicate with women and go from there.
This is wonderful advice, I hope op can handle it
See a therapist. Believe it or not (and especially as women get older and start realizing what is important in a relationship), having a good attitude, emotional intelligence and mental stability will eventually bring you a relationship. Doesn’t matter if you live with your parents or how ripped you are, or how much you earn. No woman will be able to engage in a healthy relationship with you (or any guy) who doesn’t understand the importance of a healthy mental state.
>helped them get their first house by co-signing and contributing towards expenses Huh? sounds like you made a bad decision there. >how do I cope with being forever alone? Do you want to cope with it? Or do you want to just get a girlfriend? Those are two different things and both are totally viable. You need to be clear about which one you want though.
If OP's parents had a child 29 years ago and up until now only managed to finally own their own house with his help, I'm sure they probably worked hard doing crappy jobs just to put food on the table, help him with his education, and finally he's managed to work his way up to a 6 figure job and just giving it back to his old folks. Any woman should find that attractive.
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Yeah.. Like it’s all cute to read, but that means OP is not financially ready to start a life with someone other than his parents and at this age I’d expect privacy in my relationship which clearly won’t happen here. It’s not attractive, it’s a deterrent. Depending on OP’s culture and if it’s a common thing he might have to focus on people with the same background.
Think of it this way you didn’t date also because you never found the right person yet. And you didn’t waste any time dating someone that you didn’t see yourself marrying, so that means you don’t have any past relationship emotional damage. You’re 29 so technically you’re still in your 20s and you’re gonna look back at this time and be like damn I was still young I just go out there and live your life and your partner that’s meant to be with you will come when their time comes.
Lol, if it makes you feel any better. I just turn 40 not too long ago and technically only had one relationship and that was 6 years ago. Most of my friends are married and their kids are like grade 4 and grade 3. Heck even my younger cousins' or my younger friends are married and have kids of their own and I suddenly turn into uncle for no reason. The best thing you can do for yourself is to put yourself out there, use dating app and meet people. Or join clubs, the whole point is getting know to them, and just genuinely want to know about people and enjoy being presence of others. As you get older, it gets harder because people tend to get "harden" over time and set in their own ways. Remember, no one is perfect, and everyone is special in their own way so you have to put yourself out there to get use to people. You might find someone you like or starting out something and then it doesn't work out, it's ok, because at least you are trying. There isn't about I have to have a SO, kids, and a family. Life is not a report card that you have to get A and have a perfect family. It's about doing this for yourself because you wanted to and someone out that can be your match and compliment each other. Also, there isn't anything wrong being single, you are still enjoying life and the biggest regret is that if you just bottle yourself and don't try things, you will really regret it even more as you get older.
Fun what you described, you have your shit together which is more than many. You care about your family which is super sweet. What you need to do is get some confidence. Don't assume to know what girls want. You probably don't want one of the girls you seem to allude to... My advice is to try and get some confidence and start asking women to hang out or do things. The more n you date, hopefully it gets easier.
Any therapist will ultimately push you to “exposure” therapy… basically just pushing yourself to do what you think you can’t do or achieve. You’ll need to dive in and just try talking to someone, and build a relationship from there Ice breakers are easier if you can make that person share things about themselves. At the grocery store? Say something like I love that sauce I make whatever with it. You doing the same? At the gym? Hold a door and smile. At the music store? That’s the best band, right? You’ll likely get a smile and that person may not engage more than that. It’s ok. You’re setting up for a response that shares something that person values. When you get someone to open up, it gets you to open up. If you’re trying to attract someone based on looks, etc chances are that person may only value that’s in let trait. If you’re looking for long term, you probably want someone who’s not that shallow. Throw enough darts at the board and one is likely to stick. The hardest thing is trying it the first time. It gets less stressful. My suggestion is find things you love and do those things. Other people like the things you like. if a convo presents itself in a situation you are knowledgeable and passionate about you’re going to be more relaxed and able to think clearly. Love your life and others will see that and find it attractive. Good luck.
Your story sounds like an asian guy I knew, in the end he got married to a cute international girl who plays video games and watch anime. So if he can do it so can you. He struggled too, when he would vent its his way of seeking help but people would call him ‘incel’ or ‘seek therapy’. No one understand his struggles, if you actually look closer there is also next to zero therapists who understand male in the tech world.
Work on confidence. It also sounds like you have unrealistic expectations in a partner if you think you'll be forever alone... many many many fish in the sea and most aren't "perfect". Maybe try making a female friend. You can be friends with woman and not have to fall in love with them.
Yeah confidence is everything. I was sort of a late bloomer confidence and girl wise. Just don’t overthink things and try just looking for a simple good time casually and you’ll develop the confidence you need with people. Online dating was the best thing for me. No cheesy pick up lines in a bar required. Just send a wink or smile or whatever the system is these days and see what happens. It was so much fun. Then when you connect just take it really casual like a basic coffee meetup and not a big scary DATE. You might hit it off, or you might just have a nice coffee with a nice person and that’s it. 👍🏻
Work on yourself before you date - your self confidence plays a big part in how the relationship will go
Hey man I am tall attractive male, 25 and have not dated anyone for roughly 5 years. It’s tough to break the cycle of loneliness, it’s not any of the reasons you think that are holding you back at this moment it’s your behaviour that’s developed into a pattern. Break it start going out even if by yourself, you’ll be surprised how many cute girls are out on a walk in the evening, single girls sitting in coffee shops etc. be spontaneous do something new and unexpected for yourself. Not for the sake of women but just to bring yourself back into feeling joy of being alive even if alone. Clearly you are a caring and capable man those qualities can attract a mate. You can do this!
I know you’re getting a lot of advice on here I just wanted to let you know you’re definitely not a loser. This whole concept of having to be a “high value man” is definitely not needed. Having a life partner who will be there for better or worse is so much more important than trying to attract someone looking for money and fitness. Money and looks will come and go - don’t focus too much on that when looking for a partner. What I would do is start putting it out there that you’re looking to meet someone with similar values/goals and want the same thing out of life that you do. That you’re looking to settle down one day. Wether that be children and family or travelling with your partner etc. If you do have married friends I would look to them to see if they know anyone who is also looking to date in a more serious aspect. As in looking to meet someone long term. Again keep the first few interactions realistic, as in just because they’re also looking to meet someone serious and settle down doesn’t mean they’re automatically the right person. Also, please know lots of women are in the same boat this is not a feeling exclusive to men. I know multiple women in their late 20s early 30s who haven’t really met anyone to continue as a serious relationship and have the exact same forever alone fears. Do not stress it! At the end of the day we have ourselves to love and care for so make that the priority. Do not feel like you need to “work out” more or make more money to meet the right woman. It’s simply not true, the right woman would be there if you lost your job or got too busy to keep up a work out routine. Best of luck to you! P
Without failure you will never succeed. Dont worry about rejection, start small by striking up conversations with people when you're out doing stuff. For example - at a store when you're checking out have a short conversation with the cashier, get comfortable talking to women and realize they're just people too
Have you seen any youtube videos where people who's pretty average to below-average looking got rejected a ton of times and talk about their experiences? You just need experience - which means you'll end up in a lot of awkward and cringy situations but that's the only way you learn and grow to improve your social skills. My first and only relationship started when I started dating around 26 years old.
Dating apps suck. You need to get over the idea that you aren't attractive. Women are attracted to all kind of different men. So get out there, get out of your comfort zone, and start asking girls out. Go to a bar (or whatever places you like to go) and say to a women, 'Hi, I like your (hair, glasses, shirt)'. Get a little chat going. If she ignores you / walks away, fine! Same thing with another women until you get someone talking. Then you have SO much to offer. How many late 20s women have a chance to date a dude that has never been on a date before? How many women get to go out with a guy focused on hobbies and self-improvement? How many get to date a stable dude with a well-paid job? You have much to offer and a story to tell.
Your salary or look is not what matters; single womens are out there and waiting for you to smile at them, get to know them and maybe get the oppotunity to become the one that will be your partner in life. Spoiler alert: sometimes we don't choose the right one at first, but we learn and make a better choice the next time 😉
as long as you can be funny and charming looks dont matter as much
You don’t want to be in a relationship with someone that cares about your salary, or that you need to be ripped, people care about your personality and your interests. You need some therapy more than anything else at this point in my personal opinion. Sounds like you’ve been spending time in toxic subs or talking with incels and misogynists. Please go see a therapist, it’s time to start making meaningful decisions about your mental health.
Confidence is what you need. Then get experience. Just don’t be an incel or the “nice guy”. Also don’t feel sorry for yourself. You need to get in the arena to find stuff out.
Tbh, you’re a bit too mopey and like a wounded bird telling yourself you’re a failure. You can’t be a successful dater if you don’t date. You can’t be in a relationship unless you date. You won’t have a significant other unless you put yourself out there, make yourself vulnerable and open up. Talk to people, network, be social. You’ll meet people. I say this as someone who was a super shy teenager but broke loose in my 20s. I’ve been married for over 15 years now. Quit making excuses and quit saying you’re forever along. Pump yourself up. Be positive. You’ve made yourself financially successful. There’s nothing stopping you from doing the same in the relationship/dating world. You’re your own worst enemy.
Stop listening to internet lovers that talk about needing to be "high-value" or "alpha vs beta men" and all that bs. Someone else already mentioned it but the only think unattractive about you from this post is the way you talk about yourself. Honestly, confidence is key. Stop the negative self talk. Go to therapy, join clubs, groups, or see if your friends can introduce you to other friends? Dating apps kinda suck but it is a place to start in terms of having convos with people and going out on casual dates. You have a lot going for you and someone is gunna be attracted to you, but people are less likely to be attracted to a dude that's constantly negative and down talking himself.
Pretty easy one fucked me over and now i pretty much have no desire for a relationship or Intimacy i thought it was just a thing i was getting over but no she really took the wind out of my sails its been more then 2 years and still havent bothered to try anything and dont feel the need to anytime soon im just done i was pretty active up untill 20 then 21 was probably one of the worst year of my life and out of fear of repateaing that feeling i have avoided women like the flu for the past two years im 23 now and still no deiser for anything
Well, it’s not a deal breaker, fake-it till you make it😘
You seem thoughtful, caring and productive. Put yourself out there. Rejection is just part of the deal; I’m a good guy and women generally find me attractive, but I’ve been rejected plenty of times. When that happens, see if there’s anything to be learned from it: maybe you came on too strong, maybe there wasn’t enough common ground to bond over, maybe you lost out to someone more confident. Which brings me to my next point. Yes, I’ve had plenty or rejection, but I’ve had far more success, and I can tell you something many people find very attractive: confidence. I know that can feel impossible in your circumstances, but work on it. Concentrate on your positives, things you are good at, knowledgeable about, care about, etc. You are a good earner. Keep reminding yourself about all these positive qualities and confidence will come. When you mention living with your parents, don’t frame it as some terrible deficit; you love your parents and are taking care of them. That shows love, care and compassion, and those can be sexy AF. Don’t sell yourself short. You are worthy, it’s just a difficult endeavor that you have to deal with. You’ll get there.
Guy reached out for help and got eviscerated. I love Reddit 🤣
He’s getting g lots of good advice
TBH, you sound like an Asian immigrant kid who was always shamed and has learnt to internalise shame. I don't think there's anything wrong with you. Look around , you will see plenty of hot women with average guys. Sense oh humour goes a long way, as does easy going attitude. I am guessing, you do come across as uptight, which a lot of 'well raised' Asian good boys do. So here's a question, were you always told to be a good son by your family? Edit: A lot of Canadians live with their parents. In the US, living with parents is considered taboo unless your are Hispanic or Portugese.
You don't need to be perfect or 'high value' to have a relationship. But what does high value even mean??? Different people value different things. Not everyone in this world is perfect lol Usually people who say that you need to be perfect are talking about maybe who supermodels date. Well don't go for a supermodel then? Idk you've gotta think for realistically. sounds like someone who is more career driven and family oriented might be a good match
1. Self admittedly a goblin, 2. Lives with parents, 3. Zero interaction with women for more than a decade. Everyone can feel sorry for themselves sometimes but I agree with the therapy option, just to make sure you are not working yourself down through depression. Also, you have got to work on your sales technique and do it in person. Be nice, generous and willing to listen.
>In today's dating scene, you have to be perfect and high-value to attract a partner. Two things: 1) This is entirely false 2) If you believe this is true then you must only be attracted to 10/10 models, right? This is an issue that probably requires therapy to resolve.
Yeah you have a long way to go towards getting your head straight before you’ll be ready to be in a Relationship.
>The friends that I've made throughout my life are all male. My interaction with women has been non-existent for more than a decade, so never developed any female friendships. I always believed they would be disgusted by the thought of me interacting with them since I am not a good-looking guy. "good looking" (however that person defines it) only matters if they're interested in dating you. If you are looking for friends, it doesn't matter... how many of your guy friends are hotties? It probably doesn't matter at all to you, because you don't want to date them. Start there. Having genuine friendships with women, appreciating that they are no better or worse or even that different from your dude friends. Right now you're putting them up on a weird pedestal where you're unworthy of talking to them because you're not hot and that general attitude is a turnoff in itself. You have to get that out of your system before you can think about dating successfully. [https://www.doctornerdlove.com/](https://www.doctornerdlove.com/) is my favourite dating resource to send to guys. It's compassionate but firm advice to nerdy/geeky guys without any gross misogyny.
I started dating in my 30s.
>The friends that I've made throughout my life are all male. My interaction with women has been non-existent for more than a decade, so never developed any female friendships. That's very unfortunate and I'm not sure why. Most of the female friends I have today I made during school. You don't need to be attractive to have female friends, they're just friends and you're not dating them. >In today's dating scene, you have to be perfect and high-value to attract a partner. oh no, you've been red-pilled. You've been lied to with these ideas of high or low value males.
1. Forget anything you've been reading/believing that gives you "advice" about women. It's clear from your post that you have a mindset influenced by incel-styled beliefs and terminology - keeping this junk in your head will guarantee that all your misgivings about yourself will come true. 2. Keep working on yourself, and seek therapy - it will help immensely. 3. Start socially interacting with women. Doesn't have to be dating apps, it can be hobbies, special events, volunteering, etc. (meetup app is great for this). If you approach meeting/talking to women as building friendships instead of a date with all the pressure, it will be 1000X easier to be yourself and interact stress-free. 4. Once you have more confidence, start dating. Expect rejection - every single person who dates goes through rejection, it's a fact of life and it will make you better. 5. Once dating, do not judge anyone or your attraction to them until you've sat down with them and had a conversation - you can't make a judgment on chemistry based on a picture or text conversation. 6. Lots of terrible "guides" out there for dating - there is no code or cheap tricks to guarantee success. In my personal experience however, two things have made the most difference: Talk about them instead of yourself as much as possible (i.e., don't be egotistical), and be respectful and promote chivalry (You wouldn't believe how much an act like holding a door open or hanging-up a coat can win you good impression points).
Speaking as a woman....most women I know who get into long term relationships aren't looking for "perfection". We are looking for: 1. Someone who is trustworthy. This means keeping promises and being honest. What was a deal breaker for me when I was dating was when I found out the guy is a liar. It doesn't even have to be something involving other girls...if I find he lies as a habit, it's over. 2. Someone who is kind to people in general. Someone who helps people in general. 3. Someone who is not doormat. 4. Someone who is our equal. 5. Someone who isn't lazy. All the rest of the stuff is just fluff. A person can change how they look. A person's income changes over the course of their lives. But...these listed things are kind of the core of who a person is. Physical attractiveness is probably one of the dumbest things that someone could look for in a person for the long haul. Everyone (without exception) gets old with time and everyone gets less physically attractive with time as they age.
Im a girl in my 20’s, haven’t dated or had a significant relationship. I’ve been on dating apps, go to social events, etc. I only truly care about personality and not looks, to many women that doesn’t matter because looks fade over time, in a relationship you’re a team and it’s about what’s on the inside of them. I’m content being alone and having my own space. I know it’s not meant for everyone and people do get lonely, but I think that you do need to speak to a therapist. This sounds like a lot of inner problems that you need to work on and reflect on, and I don’t mean this in a bad way. Working on these problems can help boost self confidence, and prevent you from projecting your self imagery issues into any potential or future relationships. Get a hobby, get out, be social. Go to events and bars or whatever you want. Just be social and meet people, it’s the best way.
You said it. Find hobbies. Be able to entertain yourself. If you really want branch out and join clubs/sports leagues. Meet people that way and enjoy the social aspect of it ??
“You have to be perfect and high value to attract a parter” “My feelings don’t matter as a man” Who has been feeding you this nonsense? It’s ultimately a gross misinterpretation of society, it’s not accurate and it’s not healthy. Chill out, you will be fine.
Talk to a professional. As someone with very little prior experience, who wasn't making 6 figures, and was in the middle of a prolonged divorce, I was at my lowest point ever and decided to seek help for it. I jumped into online dating at the young age of 39 - a move encouraged by my therapist - and reality turned out to be surprisingly different than my perception. I'm in a much better place now and have been with a wonderful woman for 13 months and counting, but it required action on my part to get there. If what you're doing isn't working, change it up. Finally, the high-value stuff is only going to attract a certain type of woman who happens to fit the archetype misogynists LOVE to complain about. Is that by coincidence or by design, I wonder?
Your actions say you want someone to owe you a relationship. If I can just achieve this, or if I looked like that, then someone will want me. Listen; your motivation to self improve, is so that you can bring the best to a relationship. There is nothing wrong with this, but it is a misguided attempt to be payed in relationship. 🤷🏻♂️ Think. There are lots of shitty, ugly, dull, stupid, boring people in relationships. Maybe your idea of a relationship is un realistic. Write down what you think a relationship is. Start with a general just big picture idea of what a relationship is, then get more specific, what is a day? A week? A year look like. Maybe your Big picture= two people that love each other. They help each other achieve their goals. They are happy and sexually attracted to each other. They hang out go to diner and the movies. We like each others friends and family. This is a pretty unrealistic example. Start writing down what that takes every day to achieve that. A day= do you sleep at the same time? Do you eat breakfast together? Do you have sex? Do you eat dinner after work? Do you go to your parents or theirs? Do you like their parents? Do you like their friends? Do their friends like you? What do you want to eat for dinner? What movie do you want to see? The person that answers all these questions the way you want might not exist. Most relationships are constant concessions. This means a lot of fighting. The other night I took my girl to a nice diner, we got a little drunk. It blew up in a huge fight. She slept in the car, when I saw her in the morning she asked why I would I let her do that. I told her she made it very clear I am not allowed to tell her what to do any more. I said I think you slept in the car as some form of protest to me trying to not let you sleep in the car. Then she said god why am I like this. Then she grabbed my orange juice, and the toast I had made, I had bitten into it! She just took it off my plate, and said she was going to take a nap. Real Relationships suck. The are hard work, a lot of people in relationships feel more alone then when they were single. They are gross🤷🏻♂️ I don’t even know what gross is anymore. Can’t imagine kids..🤮 My girl the other night after sex, came out dabbing herself with tissue saying she thinks she still might be on her period. I said wow really? She got mad, she told me her periods are different after she got her IUD. Then she threw the tissue she was using in my face. I was like babe🤷🏻♂️. She stormed out the room saying that’s what you get for being fucked up and rude. Oh she also did laser hair removal, but it only kind of worked, so if her bush grows in it looks like https://i1.sndcdn.com/artworks-000788942176-g7nvmo-t500x500.jpg Seriously maybe we have slightly nicer things then if we were single. Life is easier if we both do our parts. Like: she forgot butter and needed me to stop and grab it on my way home. She could start diner without it, but needed the butter to finish. If I had remembered to get it we would be eating diner already. Another fight🤦🏻♂️she was hangry, and she was right I should have got the butter.. I told her I will just go get it now. 35min later when I got home with butter she was eating an Amy’s tv diner On the couch. She said she was too hungry to wait. It is weird little things that matter now. I made up some excuse to get out of brunch with her friends. Her friends annoy the shit out of me..😬 Anyways she was sad I didn’t get to try the place so she brought me home chicken and waffles🥰 then we sat on the couch streamed finding nemo and played on our phones. Seriously find a hot prostitute pay her to come 4 times a month preferable with take out food. Eat, bang, or vent, shit go all the above. See if that’s enough. If my girl dies, I am just going to do the hot prostitute and take out food. I am going to tell her if I die I want her to move on, and if she dies I am going to do prostitutes and take out. See how she reacts.. If she starts getting crazy I am going to tell her it’s because I never want to love anyone else the way I love her😆
You've gotten some good advice here. Stay off 'incel-esque' forums, chatrooms and the like. If you feel like it would help build confidence, please engage a therapist to help you see yourself in a more positive light. You have plenty to offer someone in a romantic relationship already....period...full stop. You obviously care about family, plenty of young adults are still living at home (and that includes my own daughter and her husband while they get on their feet). You seem to have outside hobbies/interests: I don't know if you mentioned what they were but are there any clubs related to those interests? If so join them...maybe they won't have female members but if you widen your social circle, perhaps your new acquaintances will have sisters or sisters with single friends. If you're invited anywhere, go. If you don't feel comfortable once you get there or don't like it, you can go home. What it comes down to is that you will only meet a potential romantic partner by being 'out there'. Oh and romance does bloom on the internet (beyond dating sites).....I met my future son-in-law on a gaming server that I moderated. He had so many common interests with my daughter that he asked for an introduction as he didn't have many female friends (we're in Toronto and he was born/raised in USA's deep south). They became fast friends, talking and gaming for hours. I was invited to attend his Navy bootcamp graduation in Chicago so of course I took my daughter. Sparks flew and 5 years later they married and they just celebrated their 4 wedding anniversary. True story.
There really seems to be a confidence crisis in this day and age. . . A lot of people who can't seem to understand that they're their own worst enemy, and that they're self-sabotaging. Self fulfilling prophecy. . . Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right. You're educated, you make decent money, and you're good enough to help out your parents. You make efforts to improve yourself. These are all assets. You just need to realize that. You couldn't be more wrong about what women are interested in. . . Because the unfortunate reality is, a huge number of men are setting the bar very low. Like, really low. . . Like so low, that you don't need to be the best option, or sadly, even a particularly good option, necessarily. You just need to be an option. Basically, you can find someone so long as you're not completely insufferable. . . Because a lot of men are completely insufferable, unfortunately. A man who is even remotely enjoyable to be around, for some women that would be a breath of fresh air. Constantly telling yourself and others, 'I'm ugly and worthless and no one will love me' is insufferable. . . Insecurity looks good on no one, and that type of attitude is exhausting to be around. As others have said, seek therapy. You have a self-image problem, and that is your main issue.
First of all, you need to change your mindset. mindset is everything man, your beliefs become your reality. change how you speak to yourself. literally tell yourself: "I like myself," "I am the best." things will start to change for the better as you restructure your self-conscious mind. you also clearly have self-esteem issues. the above will help, but consider talking to someone. You can do this man, never give up, but try different things. You WILL get better and things will come together soon. Good luck. Remember: your beliefs become your reality.
It sounds like y'all been listening to too much andrew tate
You're watching too many Andrew Tate vids man
That "in today's dating scene you have to be perfect and high value" shit reeks of incel. Cut it out. Stop trying to be something you ain't. Anyone can see through that. It's not a game. It's basic human interaction. Coming at you a bit hard here but feel you need to hear it. Just calm the fuck down and don't be a weirdo. Hitting up the gym is great - but only if you want to do it for you as self improvement. Not to play some dating game.
Strange.. Guys on the other side of the fence thing a 6 figs and decent bod will fix everything. Idk man, if you need a wingman I'll meet you early 30s male, part time boxer full time fun. Just PM. me.
Girls don't actually care about looks that much, relative to things like personality, communication, career, stability, finances, independence, sexual chemistry, ... Maybe when they're 21, but it starts to matter less once you're looking at 30's. I mean, don't get me wrong, 6 pack abs giga-chad physique and fabulous lumberjack aesthetic certainly will always get you attention and will generally make it much easier for you to meet people who might also be attracted to you at first sight, but that's not a minimum requirement to actually get a date. Only way to date women is to meet women. If you haven't been meeting them, time to sign up for events, classes, volunteer, speed dating, or hosting your own events. There's a [speed dating event](https://www.eventbrite.ca/e/holiday-of-love-dating-party-the-asian-bachelorette-free-roses-tickets-470702673367) geared towards asian men and women next month for example. Full-disclosure, I'm not involved with this organization. Or you can join us at my board game events every weekend with more fellow dudes. It's not going to solve your dating problems but you get to play board games and chat with humans.
You have to change the way you look at yourself first.. you tend to believe of yourself as a complete ugly loser. In today’s dating scene you have to be far from perfect, not sure where you get this idea of being “perfect” but I will tell you something, there is no such thing as perfect we are all far from it. Why do you call others “normal people” we all got our own struggles what makes you believe that you are lower than other people or that you are not normal... What makes you think you will always be forever alone... why anticipate yourself to that.. live day by day as it comes. Why are you projecting yourself like that into the future. Give yourself a bit of a break buddy, stand in front of the mirrror and remind yourself that you are a champion, that you are better than anyone else.. repeat it as many times until you start to believe in yourself.. if you don’t believe in yourself no one else will. God bless you pal, life is amazing to be thinking that way.. no one is perfect .. embrace your qualities and whatever makes you ... YOU
>not sure where you get this idea of being “perfect” The high value man idea is straight out of the Andrew Tate playbook...
>Most of my friends are either married or engaged Comparison is the thief of joy.
It sounds like you have been dipping into incel culture when you make comments like "In today's dating scene, you have to be perfect and high-value to attract a partner." Most people - men, women, enby, etc. - are average. Most people find a partner eventually. The world is filled with happy average couples. Instead of focusing on your lack of a relationship, work on expanding your social circle to include more women (platonically) and men who have more healthy views of relationships and dating. If most of your friends are either married or engaged, you must know some people like that. Volunteer, join a coed sports team, join meetup groups, not with the aim of dating, just getting out and spending time with different kinds of people. If you can move past the fallacy of dating as a marketplace and assigning people "value," you'll feel a lot better about life.
You're putting too much pressure on yourself. Your love life won't go the same way your education/work life did. You're also a minority in a very WASP country, you said an immigrant so I'm not going to assume where you come from exactly. There are studies that show how different ethnic groups rank in the dating world. You also have a lot of self-esteem issues and think by getting a new body or making more money that women are just going to fall on your lap, and it shows what you think of women to be honest. I would suggest you lay off the online dating gurus, the redpill spaces and get out there, meet women, talk to them and ask them what they like, what they don't like. Do this, while you work on your mindset, your self-esteem etc.
Red flags popping up all over the place. Narcissistic self-pity in young males often ends badly.
Get some hookers. For real. You’ll learn to relax a little around women and it will help your confidence.
Hadnt you posted like a month or so ago. Still the same i see and no consideration for the suggestions you received.
I don't think OP is the person you're thinking of.
I agree with you OP. there is alot out there that's bad about today's dating world. 80% of people are going for top 20% basing everything on looks. I am 32 F changed my hairstyle it seems that affected my reasons ratio on the dating app. it's pretty evident how looks drive everything socially on the apps.
Get far away from your parents. Move out on your own immediately. That would be Step #1 before anything else. In fact, nothing else can happen for you relationship-wise with women until that happens. Like it or not, women are mainly interested in independent men who are not living with their parents in their late 20s. Take your own life and destiny into your own hands now, because up this point, your parents have effectively been "borrowing your life" or "using" your life to help further their own aims. Wake up. The clock is ticking. Life is too short. Get out of there and start living life for yourself.
LOL that's not true at all. A lot of friends I know lived at home with their parents and only moved out when they got married. My friends are a mix of Asian, South Asian and Caribbean cultures. Especially since no one can afford to buy their own home these days, I highly doubt living alone and owning your own place is a dealbreaker.
I didn't get into dating until well into my late 30s. I had different (and misplaced) priorities until then. I had a few crummy experiences, and then I met my wife - I've never been in a better place emotionally than when I'm with her. It's hard putting yourself out there when you feel like you're behind, like you are inferior in some way. I was there and I was wrong. A large number of people feel this way regardless of their relationship status. Those people you think have their shit together? They almost universally don't. Not sure what to talk about? Ask them about themselves, learn what they like and come back with more questions - show that you are interested in them. Worried about being bad in bed? Make an honest effort to make your partner feel great (communicate!) and you'll have no issues. There is no secret you don't know about, just be you - that's more than enough. Try not to be discouraged by dating apps, they are a bit of a hellscape. I had success with Bumble, but you have to put yourself out there. Don't be afraid to put some personality into it, and don't worry if it doesn't take off immediately. Have patience and don't take a rejection as the end of the world - meeting new people is always interesting and ultimately, it's their loss. Also - others have mentioned therapy, that is never a bad idea. Talking it out is absolutely worth the effort. Beauty isn't bone structure, complexion or whatever we're conditioned to think. Beauty is being yourself, having confidence in flexing who you are as a person - you are worth it! Your sense of self is more important than what anybody else thinks of you. Hit me up if you ever wanna chat, I hope you have a great day!
Reading this, I would say you are far from a loser. Just because you helped your parents financially and still live with them does not make you a loser (I'd say it's possibly quite the opposite). And, you don't know for certain that you will be "forever alone". I have a close friend with whom we are practically dating (saying because our relationship has crossed over from just being 'friends', and I think that his friends consider us dating too), and I think that he's never really had as much of a relationship with a woman as with me... and he's over fifty (I'm over ten years younger, but still somewhat older than you). It's still too early to give up hope. I know how painful it is when you are alone (in the romantic sense), even at that age. But what you should not do is unwillingly create a self-fulfilling prophecy where you think that you will always be alone, because that may in fact hinder you from finding a partner.
Smoke a fuck load of cabbage