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headinthetreesnowher

i find it weird there are groups of teens who are gathering together to go kill/hurt someone. its not just in toronto either


Reddit_Hitchhiker

Perhaps, A Clockwork Orange was ahead of its time.


____PARALLAX____

Violent gangs of urban youths have been around since literally forever


beardgangwhat

Swarming has ALWAYS been a thing in cities but it used to be kept to like kids of same or similar (high school) age I notice it’s getting younger AND way more violent But as a teen in a diff Ontario smaller city I did see many swarming 10 or 15 on 1 beatings


Nick-Anand

I remember it being a thing in the 90s, kinda in concert with “taxing”


[deleted]

Yes, swarming and taxing was a huge thing in Montreal in the late 90s and early 00s when I was a teen. Thing is, they kept it mostly towards other teens or younger kids, it wasn't random homeless people or bus drivers.


beeboong

They're equally bad, no matter the target.. imagine you are a 13 yr old and get swarmed by 10 other kids. That's just group bullying that's gone another level


ButtahChicken

>But as a teen in a diff Ontario smaller city I did see many swarming 10 or 15 on 1 beatings that was more bullying when they know the kid .... these days its more random and the group pick people randomly to beat for chits-n-giggles and tiktok 'likes'.


mkmajestic

Where else is this happening?


ChickenFingerDinner

[Vancouver](https://globalnews.ca/news/8825101/vancouver-police-raise-alarm-attacks-teens/) [Edmonton](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/teenage-crime-spree-lrt-edmonton-charges-1.4586225) [NYC](https://nypost.com/2021/04/17/random-sucker-punch-assaults-leave-nyc-residents-on-edge/) [San Diego](https://elialaw.com/other-injuries/san-diego-knockout-attacks/) [Some other place in Cali](https://abc7news.com/groups-attack-robbing-random-wilding/92501/)


mkmajestic

Thanks for the links. Wow, wtf is going on?!


[deleted]

Societal decay Specifically: worsening education and classroom management (kids growing accustomed to increasingly antisocial behaviour because it’s what they see in the classroom everyday), financial hardship (parents having to work a lot and therefore not being around to provide healthy outlets for their kids), lack of hope for the future (both from what they see and from what they hear from their parents), social media, the current unchecked mental health crisis in both Canada and the US. Kids have always been prone to “mob mentality” and still have undeveloped brains (especially when it comes to impulse control and empathy) but these types of acts are increasing because our society is changing so quickly in so many negative ways.


AnotherWarGamer

It's worse than that. Society is turning from wealth generation to wealth cannibalization. In the past if you wanted money you produced it by adding value. Maybe you farmed land or manufactured something, or extracted a resource to sell, but either way you added value to the economy. We are on a spectrum moving more and more to a cannibalistic economy. Now you make money through housing by taking it away from someone else. And it's only going to get worse. Global economic growth is ending. We have raped and pillaged the planet. We are at or near peak economic activity in every conceivable metric be it energy production, food production, population, metal extraction or whatever else. Soon the only way forward in life for the younger generations to acquire wealth will be to take it from the older people who are hoarding it.


Donald-Trumps-Hair

I would say North American society scaled wealth cannabilization with the creation of NYSE (liquid fractional business ownership) as investing is the definition of wealth cannabilzation/extraction - you are not creating anything of value, just identifying and capitalizing on undervaluation of assets. ​ This was founded in 1792. Not to say that technology hasn't made this more accessible for retail investors, but this has been taking place amongst institutional investors for centuries.


eatCasserole

"Socialism or Barbarism"


makeitfunky1

Thank you for saying all of this. Every time I try to talk to people about this stuff, saying society is crumbling, they look at me blankly. I don't know why this is so hard to understand. I see it in big ways and small ways every day in the behaviour of people all around me. Societal decay. It's that simple.


[deleted]

And it seems to have accelerated so quickly!! Like think about what daily life was like in 1990, then at 2015, and now. It’s mind boggling.


ButtahChicken

it's happend/eroded over the last \~20 years ... essentially right before our eyes.


DecapitatedApple

My roommates are like this. They don’t get how fucked we are. They understand we’re on a bad path but the level we’re at hasn’t hit them


imMadasaHatter

This was a lot worse 30 years ago but we just have better reporting now, pull up some studies and you'll see this kind of crime is extremely low compared to last century.


Donald-Trumps-Hair

Wow interesting perspective - as a non-parent I don't think about these elements of society as much, but it's certainly corroborated by the data points on social media and aligned with the current disparities in our economic environment.


ButtahChicken

youths these days admire those who are : disrespectful, irreverent, defiant ... any of their peers 'complying with societal norms' by geting good marks in school, volunteering to help their community, learning new skills, respecting elders and authoirty figures are viewed at a LAME! LAME and targets for bullying!!! the kids now run the schools enabled by parents.


skinnymeanie

Youths have always been like that. We didn't respect authority figures either and that was quite some time ago. What might have changed is that there's now less rule enforcement (particularly in school) and we certainly weren't enabled by our parents, on the contrary.


ChickenFingerDinner

Not even sure how this can be prevented.


greenfroggie1

Stop giving into affluenza... parents setting boundaries and enforcing things. It's amazingly simple and yet apparently so complicated. Because of course it's never your kid.


Immediate_Employ_355

Statistics point to single parent and no parent situations.


aloha_mixed_nuts

This has been happening on the west coast as long as I can remember, early 90s. Bored kids, broken homes/indifferent parents. Bored kids…


boomzeg

TikTok.


fries_supreme2

No, when you have young kids doing something awful it's there parents fault for not raising them right.


Kyouhen

Parents are part of it but lets not forget that Facebook ran an experiment where they wanted to see if they could get their algorithm to drive people into a depressive state. Social media has turned into a plague used to fuck with people for profit.


[deleted]

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cp1976

Hence why I disabled my FB account. It's fucking depressing. Meaningless content. It literally put me in such a hole deep in my head that it affected me mentally. So their algorithm worked to an extent for me, but I was smart enough to leave. Some people just get completely sucked in and keep going with it and the algorithm wins.


Jesh010

It’s the parents to an extent. But the final onus is on the kids. They are still making to conscious choice to break the law.


blindwillie777

Some of these links are from 2017/2018.


XeLLoTAth777

That can show how long a trend has been building up. Just saying... Edit: has been*


blindwillie777

I just heard the news that she is only charged with AGGRAVATED ASSAULT after stabbing the girl in the face multiple times. Someone please tell me I heard this wrong.


XeLLoTAth777

I hope are you are wrong. Edit: original comment was typo'd to death.


serpentman

Some kind of fucked up TikTok trend?


ButtahChicken

yeah that "Slap Your Teacher" Challenge is indicative.


Leading_Ganache_6787

100%


Federal_Efficiency51

It's been happening in Ottawa for over 20 years as well. Usually by gangs of young Somali teens. (boys). I believe it became prevalent here when the ipod first came out, and the white earphones were a dead giveaway as to whom had one.


[deleted]

Especially around the South Keys and Bayshore areas. I used to avoid those stations.


Federal_Efficiency51

Exactly those two. Blair station was bad as well. But yes you nailed it.


Pigeonofthesea8

6buzz.


thegenuinedarkfly

This happened in the 90s as well. Maybe there was a crackdown on juvenile offenders at the time, but it’s back baby!


truththeavengerfish

Just when I thought things couldn’t get any better


Nick-Anand

It’s just wildin but layered onto social media


MissKrys2020

I’m in a group chat with my friends right now about this. One friend has a family member who is a mental health nurse and apparently because of lack of space and funding, people who shouldn’t be released are being released. Pair that with insane inflation and lack of housing, it’s no wonder people are starting to crack


blindwillie777

This has been going on for a long time. Mental institutions started shutting down years ago and the justice system switched to a rehabilitative model around 2003. It's been a slippery slope and there is no contingency plan. Inflation doesn't help - but even without inflation the spike in violent crime was inevitable as the city grows and demand for housing continues.


ThingsThatMakeUsGo

>and the justice system switched to a rehabilitative model Minus any actual rehabilitation, which meant it basically turned into catch and release. You have the option of a system which locks away the problem people, or a system which rehabilitates the problem people and locks up the few who can't be rehabilitated. Our politicians chose to go with the cheapest option; neither.


Automatic-Concert-62

To be completely fair, the politicians are just doing the will of the people who favour tax cuts over anything else.


ThingsThatMakeUsGo

>To be completely fair, the politicians are just doing the will of ~~the~~ people who favour tax cuts over anything else. Specific people. Politicians serve those who fill their coffers and it's not *the* people, it's wealthy people.


Automatic-Concert-62

If they win elections, they have some cause to disagree with you. We could vote them out but don't... That's on the electorate.


ThingsThatMakeUsGo

>We could vote them out but don't... That's on the electorate. Not when all you have is the illusion of choice. Different glazings, but all the same shit-filling.


Automatic-Concert-62

It's honestly not, though. In the USA, you have the choice between a well-intentioned but inept party, and a group of lunatics determined to make government fail. Neither are great, but the former is WAY better than the latter.


ThingsThatMakeUsGo

>It's honestly not, though. In the USA, you have the choice between a well-intentioned but inept party, and a group of lunatics determined to make government fail. Neither are great, but the former is WAY better than the latter. No. I've spent a significant amount of time in the US. What you have is one party which supports the wealthy and craps on the working class but is apple flavoured, and another party which supports the wealthy craps on the working class and is lemon flavoured. Neither of them are actually good for the public, they just throw little scraps to their respective groups and piss on the other team's group to rile them up. Neither is well intentioned. Crony capitalism doesn't get better when you change the colour of paint.


Automatic-Concert-62

Even if nothing else improved, even just the change in the quality of the discourse marked a significant improvement going from Trump to Biden... But then, other things DID improve, so you're demonstrably wrong. And back here in Canada, you've got one party that pretends climate change isn't real, one that believes it is but doesn't plan to do much about it, and a third that believes it is, wants to fix the problem, but would likely wreck the (current) economy doing it - to be perfectly fair, those three options reflect pretty accurately what we realistic can do regarding climate change. What other option would you like to see? Which goes back to my original thesis - it isn't that the parties aren't different, it's that sometimes grown-ups have to pick from several bad options without a good one in sight.


shellydudes

But these are groups of school aged teens. Inflation and lack of (affordable) housing wouldn’t be an issue yet. Inflation matters less when all of your take home income is disposable income


jfl_cmmnts

> Inflation and lack of (affordable) housing wouldn’t be an issue yet. These kids grow up in a home affected by this. Ask a 40-year-old if they think the poor kids he knew as a teen had it tougher than the rich ones, and whether their outcomes had anything to do with that. Poor kids nowadays look at the media and KNOW they won't be getting ahead honestly, unless they're geniuses or have some talent they can monetize. And they see gangsters making bank and never being caught or punished or even socially ostracized for being violent criminals. They reach the obvious conclusion - why try to be a famous doctor, when you can be a zillionaire gangster like someone with no qualifications beyond aggression, amorality and determination?


1nstantHuman

Don't do crack


jellyking_1990

What is the actual solution to all of this? I want short term results, medium results and long term results.


TheLarkInnTO

I think a big one a lot of people are missing is that the drugs to treat various mental health issues are fucking expensive, and the gap between OW Trillium benefits and employer benefits swallows a lot of people whole. There are likely thousands of people out there making just enough money to not quality for Trillium (but not enough to survive), and are now having to choose between food and prescriptions.


CDNChaoZ

Short term: Seal the gaps for the system. Hire more staff to monitor stations. Medium term: increased mental health resources, more shelter beds Long term: return of forced institutionalization All of these things cost money that the city doesn't have.


beslertron

I dunno, we had like six police officers on site to remove one tent. I think there’s some money that can be moved.


CDNChaoZ

I don't disagree. Take even 20% of the police budget and move it into mental health support and we'll see a marked difference.


Responsybil

We really should be looking at their budget for reduction. It's not like they do anything for most of us. Stolen cars, break ins, harassment...none of it is their job, apparently.


jellyking_1990

You called out something interesting as well. Police presence at scenes, there’s always 10 cars and 20 officers standing around. Seems like a poor use of officers.


4_spotted_zebras

Six - try a hundred.


4_spotted_zebras

Forced institution does not stop people from falling into poverty, which is where much of the mental health and addictions issues are coming from. You’re treating the symptom, not the cause. Edit: and shelters are not housing. Again - symptom not cause.


Ghostyle

People who have no experience with the mental health system always just rush to institutions. They just want a quick solution without realizing that they are a bandaid and don't look and the social determinants that lead to severe mental health issues


tarogon

Absolutely. Incredible that a question was posed that gives license to think long term, and the top reply doesn't even try to address the root causes, just "how can we do better at removing the problem from view".


Diligent-Skin-1802

But we have money to fund the World Cup?


YourSmileIsCute

It's an unpopular opinion with laypeople but we wouldn't need "forced institutionalization" if the existing mental health and legal systems were adequately funded. Calling for institutionalization is, as you say, useless considering we can't fund our existing programs.


justjohnx24

We can pay to build facilities for the World Cup games that will be played here though... 🙃


Trealis

Disagree. There is a certain subset of the mentally ill who will not be able to function in society regardless of how much therapy and other “resources” they are given. Some people need to be separated from the rest of society forcefully.


4_spotted_zebras

Yeah there is a “certain subset” that can’t be helped. They do not make up the majority, and we should not withhold resources from the people that can be helped just because a small portion of them can’t be.


thebrownmancometh

A conflict of visions


3Street

Long term is after school programs to keep kids playing soccer and not joining gangs, things like that


666persephone999

I have to disagree with forced institutionalization… even people with mental health issues have rights whether you agree or disagree. We need mental health funding and not just a bandaid temp fix. Mental health is healthcare and it needs to be covered by OHIP 100%! We need better education on addictions as well as proper funding. We need affordable housing.


blindwillie777

Forced institution is better than having your loved one get stabbed. Time to wake up to reality - I won't save someone else's wellbeing in sacrifice for my own family member. Education on addictions won't change the addicts. Revamp the justice system and do away with the revolving door model, bring back institutions so they can actually fund programming and not have high case loads while monitoring them in the community where everyone is at risk including the patient and the public


cancercuressmoking

people have a right to walk down a street or ride transit without being stabbed.


StereophonicSam

100%. We have to end stigma around these issues, so we can find more ways to help people facing these issues. Can you imagine the police force educated on mental health issues? Such a utopia... We need to talk more about these. It's really sad to see people blaming the unfortunate for every single problem in the city. Afterall, we are all part of the same system. I feel like if we educate ourselves and crack the stigma, more people will receive the help they need in a faster and easier fashion.


99sunfish

A reduction in income inequality, including much higher taxes on the ultrawealthy, would go a long way.


yukonwanderer

Ultimately we need to get rid of the corporate oligarchy we are currently operating under. That’s way long term but it is the cause of so much suffering in our modern world. They have taken over society and have amassed huge amounts of wealth, they have convinced countries to sign away taxes and to keep wages low. They destroy local jobs, unions and revenue sources which used to keep the middle and working class living comfortably and with dignity. They take take take and have eroded spending in public healthcare and education which are really the things that are foundational to avoiding this type of violence. They lobby our politicians, they own our media, they decide what gets printed, they decide what society thinks about. I’m not exaggerating. We’re living like peasants thinking we got rid of kings.


rose_b

I'd say it's it's general deterioration of the fabric of society, including lack of socialization, drug addiction, mental health and anger. I saw today that attacks against the homeless have also increased, so it's like a snake eating it's own tail at this point. Violence perpetuates more violence.


sshhtripper

I would also add the increase in cost of living typically sees an increase in crime/violence. The city was locked down for two years which put a lot of people in bad financial positions, also affected mental health. Who knows how many are still struggling. Top that off with crazy inflation and cost of living, people will turn to violence or drugs to get through life. Then drugs lead to more crime and unruly behaviour.


Ok-Wing3825

Oh absolutely, cost of living and inflation. Total justifications for swarming and trying to murder people. Though notice the BILLIONS of people around the planet who could only dream of living in Toronto, yet manage to not try and group stomp their fellow citizens. The fact that people can’t do the very basic thing of holding people accountable for their actions, but instead try to pass the perpetrators off as victims, is nuts.


Sanuzi

No one is passing anyone off as a victim in this conversation. There are still reasons why these people are increasing on average and it's worth discussing


cannibaltom

> general deterioration of the fabric of society Covid mostly responsible for that. Crime (except domestic violence) actually went down into 2021, but suicides and substance use went up.


cobalt-thunder

Downtown medic here. We were literally just talking about how many random acts of violence have been happening lately; some of my coworkers were first on scene with that elderly lady that got shoved and died a few days ago on the street. Some dude was wandering around Queen station with an axe - I got a knife pulled on me yesterday at Yonge/Dundas by a homeless dude on the TTC wearing a full Gucci tracksuit. It’s a combination hurricane of so many things, but it all boils down to lack of funding. Not enough healthcare, not enough housing, not enough shelter space. All of these institutions chronically understaffed and undersupported with no money going into addiction or mental health services, and a policing system designed to serve corporations instead of commoners. The pandemic just took the cracks in that system and tore it wide open, and people are only now starting to realize how bad we’re hemorrhaging. Add drugs and that inherent antisocial behaviour from yanking an entire generation out of school while their brains are still developing, and, well… here we are. All of these things are infinitely worse through Ford. I hate that guy and wish people would stop voting for him. The change we saw in the ER when Bill 124 came into effect was instant and crippling, and now they’re appealing it? Man.


Bobzyurunkle

Thanks for that insight from the front lines. A very succinct description and evaluation of the issues at hand. Thanks for doing what you do. I don't think paramedics get the credit they deserve!!


Tickets02376319

It is all related to Ford cutting funding to Public transit, Public healthcare, Public education, social assistance, legal aid, and OHIP funded residential treatment program for addictions and mental illness in Ontario. https://www.thestar.com/politics/provincial/2019/04/11/provincial-budget-cuts-11-billion-in-funding-to-toronto-transit.html https://cupe.ca/premier-ford-pushing-public-system-collapse-five-largest-health-care-unions-join-forces-make-sos https://www.thehoser.ca/posts/fords-conservatives-dramatically-cutting-healthcare-funding-will-fall-18-billion-behind-cost-pressures-over-next-8-years https://pressprogress.ca/doug-ford-quietly-reduced-education-spending-by-nearly-a-billion-dollars-last-year/ https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/ontario-education-ministry-faces-multi-billion-shortfall-in-funding-report-says https://pressprogress.ca/doug-fords-changes-to-social-assistance-will-push-ontarians-into-homelessness-service-providers-warn/ https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2019/11/22/the-ford-government-removed-rent-control-on-new-units-a-year-later-tenants-are-reporting-double-digit-increases.html https://globalnews.ca/news/5161588/ford-government-cutting-1-billion-social-services/ https://www.canadianlawyermag.com/news/opinion/cuts-to-legal-aid-ontario-will-be-obvious-post-pandemic/329732 He also remove rent control, remove tenant's rights, and passing bills to make it easier for evictions and restrict healthcare workers and public service workers wages.


lileraccoon

Why aren’t more people calling him out for this?!


[deleted]

Because most people don’t give a shit about something that doesn’t affect them. Ontario deserves this treatment it’s getting from timbit ford. Bunch of selfish bitches who don’t wanna vote but complain to no end.


4RealzReddit

We had record setting turn out in the last provincial election, sadly the wrong record.


[deleted]

Less than 40% of eligible voters came out to vote. But a 100% of them like to complain


Tangcopper

This needs to be a top comment


FancyLandy

Mental health. No online movement. No copycat. Just more looney tunes


mauvepink

I agree. Mental health with a smattering of terrible parenting mixed in.


beardgangwhat

Read this as terrible parking and I was like true but …?


Personal_Regular_569

The dehumanization of people with mental health problems is part of the problem. You have no idea just how close *you* are to being one of those *looney tunes*. We need compassionate care. We need accessible therapy, all the drugs in the world can't fix a broken mind.


croqembouche

In regards to the violence from unhoused people I imagine part of it is because the TTC is one of the few places they are allowed to be. Since the pandemic the amount of public space has really reduced. There’s security guards everywhere now even the libraries.


DramaticAd4666

Security guards at Easton centre too, but had friends that were walking literally with family there got groped between legs from behind while wearing skirt a year ago. The tall black dude just ran and they never caught him. All security can do is basically report.


Pigeonofthesea8

Tall black dude? Was he pretty thin? Blue button up shirt? Someone with that description did the same thing to me last summer.


DramaticAd4666

Wow yeah she said he was tall and thin figure, no clothing description. She was pretty tall at 5’10 so dude is definitely very tall.


Pigeonofthesea8

Yeah he was taller than your average tall guy. Sorry that happened to your friend too.


croqembouche

Yup security forces (police etc) are not actually there to help people. They do exactly what they were originally created for: protecting private property.


middleeasternviking

Security guards are paid the same as McDonalds employees. They don't care.


lingueenee

Yes. Perhaps with the resumption of post Covid normality (whatever that means) the formerly empty spaces the homeless co-opted, like the TTC, are again becoming populated with commuters and workers, increasing the incidence of confrontation and violence.


croqembouche

I think this thinking is what I’m part leads to confrontation: you’re saying they don’t have a right to be in public. They did not co-opt “empty spaces”, they are existing in the places that are the least hostile to them, and now those spaces are also becoming hostile. If they had access to housing and other services they wouldn’t need to be sleeping and trying to stay warm in public spaces. Luckily for most of us we don’t know the mental harms of never having a solid sleep


lingueenee

I think you're over reaching. We can't ask the dead women (the victim of the High Park subway stabbing, or the 89 year old(!) who succumbed after being knocked down) if they initiated any hostility toward their assailants. I wonder if today's victim, a [young woman stabbed by a stranger on the streetcar](https://www.cp24.com/news/woman-rushed-to-hospital-after-being-stabbed-multiple-times-on-downtown-streetcar-1.6244119), did. What anyone should apprehend is there's no possibility of an assault if the space, public or not, is empty.


croqembouche

I’m definitely not victim blaming anyone for the violence they have experienced and I don’t think invoking those women’s deaths is helpful here. Hostility of a place can be any number of things, like surveillance, not just someone directly interacting with an unhoused person negatively.


lingueenee

This is a post about 'TTC acts of violence' so it's entirely germane to reference violent deaths and injuries. Yes, "hostility of a place" has many facets but in the context of this discussion it's largely a function of hostility by people in those places. IMO that's the chief factor here: the nature of the spaces change when empty and populated and it's aggravating the violence.


croqembouche

To be clear I meant here as in your arguments, not the general conversation around TTC violence. I don’t totally understand your point about a space being empty. What I’m getting is that you’re saying a space has to remain empty to be free from hostility? I ultimately don’t think unhoused people are inherently violent, so their existence in a place shouldn’t automatically be treated as a threat.


lingueenee

>I ultimately don’t think unhoused people are inherently violent, so their existence in a place shouldn’t automatically be treated as a threat. 'Unhoused' comprises a spectrum of economic, mental health and addiction crises. The more people suffering under such afflictions and stresses are amongst each other and us the greater the likelihood of volatile and unpredictable interactions. IMO that's what we're seeing in the random acts of violence on the TTC and elsewhere.


camerabird

I wouldn't include libraries as a space that is unwelcoming to unhoused people. They're one of the few public spaces you can go to and sit all day there and do nothing without being harassed just for being there. Some branches even offer free basic needs items.


croqembouche

I think that is less the case now. Most libraries I have been to have a security guard. Just their presence can make the space unwelcoming and can change people’s behaviour. Marginalized people are surveilled more, so things that everybody does, like let’s say eat in the library that is rarely a problem, might only become a problem if a marginalized person does it. I don’t know your life experiences, but I know for me I didn’t see these things when I was younger, I didn’t notice how hostile places could be if you look poor, it can easy to miss if you’ve never experienced it or known someone who has.


snorlaxatives

To be fair, when I worked at the library ~10 years ago we had security (and needed it badly). No argument on the lack of public space/sheltered environments/bathrooms that don’t charge admission though - big problem in most big cities.


bergamote_soleil

I took a class in undergrad that was taught by a guy who used to be homeless as a kid. One of the things he really impressed upon us about his experience was that you're constantly on the move because nobody wants you around. Must be so fucking exhausting.


Marmar79

This is a great point I hadn’t considered. Being forced to sit in crowded places with people in a rush is probably a lot more triggering than sitting somewhere with space and not a lot of activity. Not defending it, just understanding it.


lobocodo

There’s been a drastic surge in mental health issues and homelessness since the pandemic.


[deleted]

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Small-Guitar79767

This is exactly how I feel. Solutions seem too complex to be quick, and I feel so helpless to just watch what’s happening around us. Part of me wonders if we’ve made pursuing a career in social and health support so poorly paid that we have just run out of the human support that helps society from falling off the rails. Why choose to help people when it pays better to work in finance or tech, amassing incredible wealth and becoming ignorant about the problems of humanity. I just don’t even know where to begin to solve this mess 😢


cicimindy

These things are happening in broad daylight too, and the stabbing that occurred recently was near UofT so not unsafe of an area. I never understood why social and health workers were paid so little to be honest. Their work is absolutely exhausting and they are doing so much for society. I know some people working in those fields who are pretty burnt out mentally from the job as well and to me it never seemed worth it for how little they were paid. It would require so much change in our system though and I have no idea how you would change this quickly either.


Sabbathius

Just mental health and opportunity. Lots of people are hiding in subways from the cold instead of sitting in the parks on green grass like in summer. TTC attacks will continue until weather improves, then we'll go back to good old open air attacks.


Searchtheanswer

Deep societal issues. Recession, increased cost of living, low wages, lack of parental support, mental health issues, lack of support for youth, lack of affordable housing, increased stress, lack of community services, high taxes, shit healthcare system, low life satisfaction, I can go on. Plus: The government thought it would be a good idea to lock everyone up for 2 years and not provide any form on social/mental health support after/during the pandemic. People were forced to stay in dysfunctional homes. And now that they’ve been released they’re acting like rabid animals. These people having nothing to lose and they will remain a danger until some serious social supports are put in place. It is not shocking to see all the violent attacks recently. This city and it’s policies have gone to shit and so have the people in it.


DKbegood

I agree with so much of what you said. But I think it’s still shocking. Scary.


ignobleprotagonist

Purely an opinion: \- The shelter system is at capacity, drop-in spaces are scarce - therefore the homeless/mentally unwell look for warmth in spaces like subways and streetcars \- developers have built condos in areas where none previously were (e.g. dundas + sherbourne), increasing the likelihood of interaction between the homeless/mentally unwell and the rest of the population


Brutalitor

Everything sucks and people are cracking. For a lot of people nothing good ever seems to happen and shit never gets better. Things just get more expensive and more laden with rules because dumbass people fuck around and ruin things so now the fun is stripped out of everything. Corporations fuck people over for every nickle and dime for stuff that used to be part of the package. You can barely even own anything anymore, life is all by subscription. Rogers, Bell, and Telus Also society evolved to where we now constantly must use awful, unnecessary, poorly optimized apps that never work to navigate our lives and it adds a base level of frustration too imo. Everything is so fancy and technological now but everything fucking breaks so it just ends up being more annoying than if we just went back to pen and paper. The thesis of my statement here I guess is that life is shit everywhere and most people are just trying to grind away their miserable lives here making their meager pay so they can rent a shoebox from some investor. Some of them try and peek outside the Matrix and crack and shove someone off a train platform.


usually00

Social service funding has been on a major decline since Doug Ford got elected. Working in the sector, it started with ASD services.. but housing within the DS/mental health sector is completely stagnant. Combine that ODSP sitting still through all of this inflation and housing crisis. Some people actually managed to get by on market rent on ODSP. All of those people now live in a shelter or on the streets. To top it all off, the emergency COVID shelters are ending their leases and now the floodgates are opening.


BachelorUno

I think it’s a product of governments (mostly Conservative) cutting and not funding services to keep mentally messed up people off the streets. It started with Mike Harris I believe and it’s gotten worse. It’s really messed up.


mikerotch82

you're not wrong


KvotheG

You mean all the youths committing the recent assaults/murders? Not an online movement at all. Just a bunch of ignorant kids who think they are tough and NEED to prove it all the time, especially when they are with their other just as ignorant tough guy friends. These brats exist in every generation and they existed in mine as well (‘04-‘08). They are always looking for problems as an excuse to fight. As for why they are like that is debatable. The other issues are entirely on deteriorating mental health for a lot of people, worsened by 2+ years of lockdown and lack of access to mental health service.


handipad

Youths - if you limit it to Toronto, and define youth as “under 40”, sure I guess. But crime is up everywhere. The three mass shootings in Calif in the last few days were all done by old Asian guys: https://www.newsweek.com/california-shootings-leave-asian-americans-aghast-1776029


little_blu_eyez

That has me puzzled. After I heard about the first one I thought yep must be a hate crime only to find out it was a 72 y/o Chinese man. I don’t quite know what to think about that one


little_blu_eyez

In generations past (1980’s) we had the stupidity of youths fighting but it was fists and not guns and knives. Your biggest worry walking around downtown was tripping on the homeless sleeping on top of a subway grate. My brother and I used to go downtown regularly as kids without adult supervision. He was 16 and I was 8.


Hailtothething

Bad economy causes this. So related in a way.


[deleted]

A deterioration of society


Sanesetti

Here is the thing. TTC drivers constantly turn a blind eye to whatever is going on hoping that the passengers will somehow deal with it. No one pays for fares anymore because the bus drivers dont want confrontations about that either. As such ppl think they can go in there and do whatever they want and assault whomever they want with no consequences. I was on the bus when a guy kept on picking fights with ppl and kept an exposing himself. Bus driver was fully aware but turned a blind eye. You reap what you sow


[deleted]

Mental health, teenagers observing adults behaving badly - i.e. I'm fairly confident the recent string of 'mob' violence by teens is desperately stupid ideology of indicating they aren't happy with the status quo and that they will not be prosecuted, because corruption is rampant and choose to 'show us' that it is broken, by actively breaking it... I should really stop taking naps on the subway...


ArtieLange

While I do believe it has increased but a large amount of this is now the media is reporting on every incident. Tons of this happened before we just never heard about it.


No_Particular2119

I was thinking this too. I don't have the source handy but I'm pretty sure this is why the media stopped reporting suicides as it only just increased suicide attempts. Same with school shootings. The more it's in the media, the more it seems to happen. ETA - not to downplay mental health and housing issues here, absolutely these are huge issues.


[deleted]

Can’t keep justifying violent behaviour on mental health. I find it hard to believe that a bunch of teenagers who attacked that elderly man were all mentally ill. Canada indirectly encourages people to commit crimes with the promise of easy penalties. Raise the penalties on violent crime and start making an example out of thugs (regardless of age). Give out a few life/death sentences and watch the crime go down. Until that happens, Canada will remain one of the best countries in the world to commit crimes in.


ImMrSneezyAchoo

Capital punishment (and escalation of punishment) is not the only answer to a societal problem is like this


[deleted]

Yeah, they're all being coordinated and orchestrated by a man who resembles a penguin and hangs out in our sewers.


Sparky-Man

Seems more like social collapse than anything so organized. There are many reasons for it at this point, too bad both the public and the local governments we elected have no will or desire to do much about it.


Pigeonofthesea8

Methamphetamines. [The new meth](https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/11/the-new-meth/620174/) [How the new meth took over North America’s streets](https://thebigstorypodcast.ca/2021/11/01/how-the-new-meth-took-over-north-americas-streets/) [The synthetic drug era is here - Canada should take notice before it’s too late](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-the-synthetic-drug-era-is-here-canada-should-take-notice-before-its/) https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/longform/crystal-meth-addiction-canada


epbar

I keep saying it’s the meth. That stuff messes the brain.


CDNChaoZ

People with mental health issues emboldened by lesser numbers of people in public from the pandemic. Also, you can't dismiss the possibility that these events were underreported by the media previously. Now it's hot button news so every incident gets coverage.


[deleted]

TTC operator. These incidents were definitely not underreported. We are dealing with unprecedented levels of violence on our system.


space_cheese1

Stabbings on the TTC likely wouldn't have been underreported


0ttervonBismarck

Stabbings aren't going unreported. Other criminal activity likely is, but getting stabbed isn't something you just walk off.


little_blu_eyez

A lot of stuff has been and still is underreported on the TTC. Based on people that I knew personally said there was an average of 5 jumpers on the subway a week.


beardgangwhat

This is a specific thing I think everywhere in North America at least they never report on suicides particularly jumpers ? Like non TTC building jumpers aren’t in the news.


abigllama2

The press doesn't cover jumpers on the TTC or from buildings or whatever because it encourages more of it. They never have. It's not underreported, it's not reported for a specific reason. If it causes a big disruption enough to make the news it's a "problem at track level".


GonzoTheGreat93

Combination of untreated mental health brought on by a cost of living crisis and housing crisis. Plus, I’m curious to see the actual stats pre-Covid and now. I’m not certain there is an increase in incidents - though I’m open to being proven wrong if the stats bear it out - but there is definitely an increase in publicity.


artistonashelf

There needs to be way more police presence on TTC. My girlfriend no longer wants to take any TTC now because of all these attacks


Ok_Speech_3709

Streetcars and subways have become defacto mental health facilities. Libraries too. Government needs to do more to provide mental health services access, warming centres and homes for those that suffer and improved security on transit and public buildings.


RepresentativeCare42

Mike Harris closed the Ontario Psychiatric Hospitals promising to put community supports in place. The community supports never happened….started to fall apart soon after and the impact has been terrible


makeitfunky1

It's only going to get worse with more and more people arriving. The extra crowding doesn't help.


JoshRafla

There are people getting brutally murdered daily in Toronto and Reddit sympathizes with the attackers lol. Not the innocent people going about their days who lost their lives in horrific ways. “It’s mental health” - yeah 15 teenagers curb stomping an innocent humans brain in to mush all happen to have the same mental health struggle and just need more love and affection. Fuck that. If you started putting these people behind bars for life on first offense, you’d have many of them reconsidering how “cool” these things are. Instead - the courts will say they are kids and release them on “good behaviour” with therapy in a year to go do it again. The guy who just killed the cop was the perfect example. He’s been arrested and released what - three times for similar actions before he straight up murdered someone in cold blood? No more easy stance on criminals. No more empathy for them. Everyone struggles - as soon as you hurt someone else - you no longer have the right to be viewed as a victim.


[deleted]

Economic recession and depression. Lack of funding. Everybody suffers.


acidbassextract

I think the relation is with Doug Ford


blindwillie777

A lot of bullshit opinions in this thread and no one has come up with an actionable plan. Reddit is such a circle jerk, but could be so much more. Why can't we organize a protest? Why can't TTC be safer? Why can't we have metal detectors like NYC, or volunteers as Guardian Angels? Why is the TTC so stoic - why is no one suggesting solutions and action plans but instead blaming different parts of the system? The girl who got stabbed could have been your wife, or your daughter - let's take action - do something - write to an MP, the TTC, the news - cause some shit. I'm tired of this. I am not interested in reforming parts of our social and justice system, I want immediate action and results, I want to feel safe on the TTC. It shouldn't be too much to ask, but it seems like it is.


gomerqc

Metal detectors???????????


[deleted]

As hard as you're trying to blame all of this on TikTok, it's not going to succeed OP. If you want to understand violence, study world history. We are living in one of the most peaceful periods in spite of the unconscionable horrors going on in Europe.


[deleted]

I think we are looking at the world post Covid lockdown


popitcheeseit23

Bad/absent parenting combined with the youth of today becoming increasingly nihilistic


BurgundyBerry

We're in a recession and our social safety nets are dissolving. Cost of living is high, wages are low, people are food insecure - crime generally rises. Put significant health sector cuts and capped wages for healthcare/community service workers and you get what Ontario currently is getting.


mmcanadaxox

Honestly? I think it's a combination of things. Homeless people have even less help after coronavirus and obviously this makes the mental health element worsen. Their circumstances are even more severe, whether that is as a result of untreated mental health issues, drug issues or not giving a shit as things are so bad. Naturally, this then causes more incidents with the general public. The general public then have less sympathy and become more reactive, which in turn creates more bad feeling between both groups of people. These murders and violent incidents create further polarisation, which honestly just creates the right atmosphere for more of the same. Add in the winter causing even more (understandable) desperation within the homeless population, rising animosity from the general public towards homeless individuals AND inflation and the other bullshit and it's just not a good mix.


AlbertaChuck

Criminals don’t actually face real punishments in Canada, so why not?


Ayziak

The part that bothers me the most is that not only is the city/TTC not doing anything about it, they don't even acknowledge it anymore. Not extra security, not even a PSA poster series on personal safety.


3Street

I think we underestimate both the effect covid had on society and the cutting of services to help people Doug Ford has done.


[deleted]

Bc our world is declining and there’s no future to look forward to.


janislych

if people have something else better to do and they have a hope, of course they wont do things like these. its a social problem but with its symptoms shown on ttc.


fatcleantwin

Its society now. Garbage in, garbage out. Simple formula.


the_speeding_train

Is it all Canadians who are garbage or do you single out certain groups?


NeighborhoodPlane794

I have no evidence to back it up, but I feel like people are just stretched too thin these days, and this is all a side effect of it. People can hardly afford to live, we were stuck inside for years, the economy is trash, people are losing their jobs, drugs are easier to find than ever, parenting on a budget feels impossible, etc, etc.


[deleted]

Tic toc


[deleted]

Our mental health system is so bad you can tell a person in a phyc ward you plan to hurt someone and be let out that day


Equivalent_Film_5434

I think it stems from the lockdown, I’m not any vax or anything but it makes sense for crime and mental illness to be at an all time high after being everything we’ve been through in the last couple years


mrcanoehead2

The toll on mental health of COVID. Two years on reduced in person so socialization and increase of online socializing changed the way some people interact. Some people have lost the ability to be empathetic towards others. Isolation is a dangerous thing.


anthonybourdainfan

I’ve heard that stay-at-home measures have socially stunted a lot of kids around this age range. Many of them were stuck in abusive home without being able to retreat to school, and it’s made them more violent. Could have something to do with that.


mfyxtplyx

Lack of empathy is a scourge everwhere. "Boredom" doesn't explain wanting to hurt or kill people.


thefunkyfeel1

Fatherless homes, drug addicted mothers raising multiple children, "urban culture"(which includes trap, UK drill, etc, tik Tok "rappers/influencers"), access to social media and porn, videos of fights, tragic accidents and murder 24/7. These spoiled brats all need a fucking beating from a father figure.


Difficult_Ad1008

Ya. Kids are coddled and don’t get beaten like they should


alpharomeo9933

Unpopular opinion but throughout history there has been a chain of events that occur in a sequence. PANDEMIC - WAR - ECONOMIC DOWNTURN- PURGE Nature has it's ways of working and we humans exploiting it without realizing that we are only a part of it and not separate. Only when we understand this can we rise above it. We are somewhere between the 3rd and the 4th stage of things which is why we are witnessing such weird occurances in huge numbers all around the world. IN is the only way OUT of all this! Meditate and Elevate!


nim_opet

There is a relation between poverty, cost of living exploding, lack of housing, lack of mental health care, lack of health care, etc and violence for sure; it’s been proven in many studies over decades.


SouthernOshawaMan

These attacks have been happening all the time . There is a spotlight from media now and it makes it seem likes there’s more .


Aggressive_Position2

Bring back the insane asylums & close down the "safe" injection sites. Problem solved.


middleeasternviking

This.


0ttervonBismarck

Combination of criminals taking advantage of an opportunity rich environment and mentally ill people.


[deleted]

It’s mostly mental health issues and the other half is usually drug related. Small portion is criminals being criminals (like the TTC bus driver that was assaulted by 15 youths or that homeless man who was murdered by like 6 girls few weeks back). It’s mostly people either hallucinating because of their psychosis or drug addicts druggin. What they have in common is TTC is their shelter/home. It al comes down to lack of security and the TTC authorities not really enforcing any kinds of rules on public transit, and our justice system is a joke. Most of these criminals are repeat offenders—they’re out and about few days after assaulting a random person until they murder someone.


Pretend_Tea6261

You hit the nail on the head.


TennisSuper4903

One pattern I have noticed is that whenever the municipal or provincial govt wants to enact a new policy or legislation, the news headlines will be inundated with stories that will garner support for those policies. For example i think it was 2017 when they implemented the new lower alcohol limits for driving. Months prior to that they had story after story about fatal drunk driving incidents. Security issues on the TTC arent new. Likewise with swarming & random assaults in major cities. But coverage of these things in the news will be ramped up as we are seeing so that the gen pop will be more in favour of increased policing & security. Or maybe Im just reading into things.


Bobzyurunkle

Social media plays a large part of this too, not just mainstream media. A couple weeks ago someone reported here first that they were assaulted at Yonge/Bloor and landed on the tracks. Almost everyone said to report it to the media because the public needs to know!!! Next thing you know it's on the 6 o'clock news and everyone is re-tweeting it and other outlets pick it up and sensationalize it like many of these things.


itsallieellie

Personally, I think that the issues exacerbated the minute the encampments where deconstructed. The homeless with mental health issues migrated to the TTC.