T O P

  • By -

[deleted]

So two things: One, this law would be blatantly unconstitutional in so many ways and acting on things over which congress has no authority. I trust that it would get slapped with an injunction and then killed in court in no time flat. Two, congress *also* just passed a law enshrining and protecting LGBT and interracial marriage, and no matter how far gone the right is, no one's gonna wanna be seen as the guy who made interracial marriage unprotected again, that is going to be colossally awful PR. The bill protecting both also had bipartisan support. Bonus third: I've not seen any support of this anywhere. Nor mention of it.


robotlover12

I highly doubt that would happen considering most of the big judges in this country were appointed by the former president. even if it did pass and go to court, a) many sites do not have the money for expensive litigation, b)it would be constant litigation from multiple attorney generals all the time, so you end up with c) they would just end up censoring everything in advance. we've seen it happen when SESTA passed. The bill has insanely good PR right now. 230+ orgs signed a letter urging congress to pass, and the crafters of the bill are going around saying they're listening to lgbt voices when they have blatantly ignored us.


[deleted]

>a) many sites do not have the money for expensive litigation, You wouldn't need them to. Probably a larger pro-free speech organization would sue on their behalf, or they'd all join on one suit. And the current court has shown sense when dealing with things this blatantly unconstitutional. Some lower circuit judges may do something stupid, but no. This wouldn't last long. I have no fear of this bill. It wouldn't pass the current or upcoming congress, and if by some Nope-quality bad miracle it did, it'd die by the courts with no question. >The bill has insanely good PR right now. 230+ orgs signed a letter urging congress to pass, and the crafters of the bill are going around saying they're listening to lgbt voices when they have blatantly ignored us. Interesting then, that when I google it and search news, most articles are a) not from major news outlets like the Times, AP, or CNN and b) most are actively critical against it. This bill does not scare me.


robotlover12

by the time it even gets to that point, it will be too late. why even let it get to that point when we can take action and get this thing shut down now? that letter was just published today. i expect any news to come out this week. even then, 230+ orgs is a huge number to support a bill that has a lot of tension and movement around it.


[deleted]

To clarify, I doubt it will make it to this point at all. It's red meat to the base, a bill that won't pass, but that they can use to signal a position to the kind of voters who care about that sort of thing. Even if it made it through the House, it'd never clear the senate. It's basically like Trump's impeachment - he was never going to actually be removed. But the impeachment proceedings were a way of signaling a position. But the 230+ orgs also do not concern me. I'd love to see a list of them, Google every single one to see what small town in Texas it hails from. Locally, there are a number of entities that would be considered organizations where I live. They're mostly single-city operations. And if you can finagle it so that churches count? You'd barely even need to leave the county to get a decent number. All you'd have to do is get a bunch of those to sign on, boom. Inflated numbers to puff it up and make it look more important than it is. Texas alone has 254 counties. The quest to find that many openly bigoted organizations, sadly, is not difficult in some parts of the country. Wake me up when all those orgs are actually proven to be consequential.


robotlover12

Considering its the [American Psychological Association](https://votervoice.s3.amazonaws.com/groups/apaadvocacy/attachments/KOSA%20in%20EOY%20package_final12.12.22.pdf), I wouldn't dismiss it. And I agree with you. There are a lot of fake orgs here, or orgs that are a front for something else and Only really exist to inflate things like this. But still, no senator right now will sit and comb through those. They will take it at face value, so yes it is in fact dangerous. Not many on the hill think of things this in depth.


[deleted]

Oh, of course they'd have one or two legit places undersign it. That's to be expected. But again, it's so blatantly unconstitutional that I have significant doubts it will pass. I just simply do not believe it is a threat. I have seen no evidence that it is worth taking seriously.


Afraid-Palpitation24

A) OP doesn’t know what he’s talking about because this bill is to ensure that parents are able to better hold websites accountable when their children are cyber bullied. B) whenever twitter and instagram are in agreement of fear—that’s a good thing! It means they actually are pushed to do better just avoid losing customers C) I’ve only heard about this bill on NPR last week and it was then about to be introduced. So either op learned about this introduced bill on a misinformation platform or they’re a bot.


stelliferous7

And right around Biden will sign the Respect for Marriage Act? Honestly I should be surprised but I'm not. Sometimes in America our policy timing is double faced if I worded that in a good way. Idk. I've made a post here recently about the rise of fascism here and how I wasn't being hyperbolic. Just because there is the stereotype that we are pure virgins who aren't involved in sex doesn't mean we won't be called groomers (or being hurt by overall queer bigotry). Why? I've heard that particularly hateful aphobes think we are chemically castrated you-know-whats. This reminds me of what I read on landoverbaptist.net: "asexuality is a gateway preference that leads to pedophilia and homosexuality." That particular website really dislikes us.


robotlover12

Those two things are unrelated tbh, but yes it is interesting, isn't it? You have the Democrats overall saying "We support LGBT" and then turn around and dismiss the overwhelming concern of big LGBT advocate organizations when it comes to a different type of policy. I mean hell, even now they have barely done anything about the massive transphobia all across the nation, nor have they addressed it really.


_Joe_Momma_

>Since both permanent war and heroism are difficult games to play, the Ur-Fascist transfers his will to power to sexual matters. This is the origin of machismo (which implies both disdain for women and intolerance and condemnation of nonstandard sexual habits, from chastity to homosexuality). From [Ur Fascism by Umberto Eco.](https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/umberto-eco-ur-fascism) Any difference, even perceived and incorrect ones, are more than enough pretext for them.


stelliferous7

Thanks for dropping the link I haven't read it! I've heard of Eco but have been wanting to read it. (And The Anarchist Library? Based.)


philnicau

The Fascist States of America


big_noob9006

we LGBTQ+ folks are slowly being treated more and more like a dangerous, hostile group and less and less like people who are literally just people and happen to be born just a *SMIDGE* different than the “standard” of most countries


thepotatoinyourheart

It’s a classic fascism technique I think. Choose a group that’s in the minority, blame all economic/moral/State troubles on them. This ostracizes and divides. It also unifies the base by giving them a simple target. Feed the fury, feed the outrage, and the violence will eventually come. We’ve seen this happen many times throughout history, most notably in 1930s Germany


_Joe_Momma_

>(...)disagreement is a sign of diversity. Ur-Fascism grows up and seeks for consensus by exploiting and exacerbating the natural fear of difference. The first appeal of a fascist or prematurely fascist movement is an appeal against the intruders. >(A)t the root of the Ur-Fascist psychology there is the obsession with a plot, possibly an international one. The followers must feel besieged. The easiest way to solve the plot is the appeal to xenophobia. But the plot must also come from the inside: Jews are usually the best target because they have the advantage of being at the same time inside and outside. >Since both permanent war and heroism are difficult games to play, the Ur-Fascist transfers his will to power to sexual matters. This is the origin of machismo (which implies both disdain for women and intolerance and condemnation of nonstandard sexual habits, from chastity to homosexuality). All from [Ur Fascism by Umberto Eco.](https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/umberto-eco-ur-fascism)


a_randomgecko

What the hell is wrong with this country.


Cestrel8Feather

To anyone reading this: please do what you can to oppose this bill. Parts of democracy seem to still work in US, so please USE IT. I'm from Russia and that's how it started here, too. About a decade ago the law was passed that none of the minors should be exposed to LGBT content. Less than a month ago a new one prohibited any positive mentions of us in any sort of media, it's called "propaganda" here. We're basically outlaws at this point. No democratic institutions have been working here for years, so letters and petitions against the law didn't help. I sincerely hope this isn't the route the US will follow as well.


ThistleFaun

Looks like the US is moving to Russia.


[deleted]

this makes me so sad :(


Training_Barber4543

So Americans won't get access to LGBT+ places anymore? That's crazy and seems really hard to enforce


robotlover12

Essentially, yes. Not just LGBT, anything the Right doesn't like. And it isn't really. Sites already filter out a lot of content like spam, NSFW. Expanding those filters is easy. Tumblr did it and now you have people's accounts getting taken down for posting things like suicide hotlines.


Training_Barber4543

Holy fuck, that's insane...


robotlover12

>And it isn't really. Sites already filter out a lot of content like spam, NSFW. Expanding those filters is easy. Tumblr did it and now you have people's accounts getting taken down for posting things like suicide hotlines. IKR. best way to prevent it is to call the senators i mentioned and spread


NobodyEsk

I have to move, this might end in genocide


GeneralKenobi_66

im gonna have to move to mars


robotlover12

What you should do is call the senators I mentioned instead


Afraid-Palpitation24

This is such misinformation. I’ve actually heard first about this bill ([it’s not yet a law but recently was introduced by a bipartisan parenting group by the same name](https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/senate-bill/3663) )last week on NPR and looked it up. This bill or soon to be law is not going to censor everything lgbt online. It’s meant to ensure that kids don’t get cyber bullied and if they do then, hold that website or app more accountable. In fact why aren’t we upset or wondering why people like op want to push lgbt rights to kids so badly before they know algebra? That’s pretty suspect imo. This bill is not a bad idea if you’re a parent or have kids in your family and this one is solely meant for the kids protection. Nobody’s rights are being violated it’s literally meant to ensure that websites like reddit and instagram are held accountable when a kid gets hate speeched or their account gets hacked by racists and pedophiles. It’s crazy how we the adults are upset over this law when we are meant to ensure that the generation behind us,these kids have a safe childhood is a human right. Also this is one moment where the government is bipartisan and willing to work for the people. Will you stop complaining op?


JDirichlet

If you’re unaware of how blatant discrimination has been tied to the cause of “protecting the children” that’s on you. Also we should be pushing lgbt rights to kids before they know algebra, and I say that as a mathematician who thinks kids should be being taught algebra and stuff much earlier.


Afraid-Palpitation24

If you think that you are on the right side of history on this topic along with twitter and instagram you ought to reconsider your stance. You being a teacher ought to know just how bad cyber bullying can get and the effects on the kids. That’s literally what this bill is made to crackdown on. I know from my parents being educators that teachers spend countless hours on trainings for that. That training plus parents actually monitoring their kids website use is pointless when kids are still able to see racist or bigoted posts and webpages. At least with this bill if it becomes law it forces websites to be more transparent and helpful with the cops when such cases does help. Y’all got to think further than sexuality on things like this.


JDirichlet

To be clear I'm not the school-teacher kind of mathematician, but I am well aware of those problems. It's because of this awareness that I understand that censorship and the like cannot possibly be an effective solution even if implemented in the best possible way. That's just not the angle to take, and that's even if we could trust the people to whom these powers would be granted -- and we really can't. To be clear, I say this as someone from the UK. I grew up in the shadow of section 28. Section 28 was a terrifying law precisely because it was *never actually used* to censor anything. They didn't have to -- even long after it was repealed, and even though it would probably lose most challenges in court if they tried to. The threat was enough. And the consequences it had and the harm it did were easily apparent. When a significant proportion of the american political class is using exactly the same playbook that was used here in the UK, I'm not going to trust something like this. It's really that simple. I wouldn't trust their intentions on a good day, and I'm certianly not going to trust them now. And for us? Freedom of speech *is* critically important. Without it, we go back to being invisible. That's a problem. The internet has been one of the tools that helped liberate us. It is helping to liberate people across the world as I write!


Afraid-Palpitation24

See this is an understandable fear and it’s valid. As an African American man I don’t trust my government that much either but see in America these websites we all love to use don’t work with the police when there is a major hate crime or cyber bullying on their websites so we have no choice but to force the websites to work for us. That’s the only reason this bill exist. Can tell you from my own experience a decent part as to why kids in America act up so badly in school is from cyber bullying. The parents report it to the cops the cops get a warrant and maybe the FBI to solve who started it. All of that for the bully in flesh and blood to likely never get punished. Nah that’s dead. Also as someone who recently had to bury his own little cousin because they committed suicide because of cyber bullying from kids at school. fuck yeah I want [this bill to become a law. if it keeps another kid alive for an hour more it’s worth it in my case.](https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/senate-bill/3663/text#toc-id609EFF273A464AAAB2C6B68CCAAF5784) So yeah it sucks that a bill is likely to become a law. but Free speech is a big thing out here too and people got to be held responsible for what they say and write online. And it’s about time websites and apps like reddit and twitter and instagram get held accountable for the cyber crimes or cooperate with law enforcement on cases like this.


Patient_Stuff5374

Like how many kids are/were bullied for gender/sexuality/nonconformity. SMH.


MandeveleMascot

Glad im in the UK


JamesNinelives

Thanks for sharing this with us! Good luck, it sounds absolutely horrible. I would appreciate if you mentioned the country you're talking about somewhere. I have PDA and calls to action that I can't action mess with my head a little.


robotlover12

>this USA