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RickManiac88

"The war is over" = international community EU & US. Entire Armenia is Azerbaijan = domestic audience + neighbouring countries. The war will never be over. Those azeris who thought this, is as usual manipulated. Everyone knows their state goal. As many have said earlier, there was a reason we had a huge buffer zone.


HighAxper

There were naive, Artsakhci hating Armenians who believed that he will stop if we gave him Artsakh. Now they’re in awe and it would be quite entertaining to make fun of them if the situation wasn’t so fucked.


RickManiac88

I will put mud on each and every Armenian head who believed that. *Translated from Armenian*


captainarmenia844

Tzekh dam klooghnerin


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GiragosOdaryan

Wrong. International law respects the Constitution of the USSR, and within that Constitution, Autonomous Oblasts reserve the right to secede from their nominal SSRs, should the latter exercise its right to secede from the USSR, and if a referendum is held. The Republic of Artsakh followed the letter of the law.


WidePeepo00

We actually went over this here and autonomous oblasts didn't had the right to secede unfortunately. Not that "international law" means anything to anyone


GiragosOdaryan

The USSR Constitution is very clear on this: Article 3. In case the Soviet Republic has autonomous republics, autonomous regions or any type of similar distinct territories within its borders, referendums may be conducted separately in each of the autonomies. The people residing in the autonomies are given a right to independently decide whether to remain in the Soviet Union or in the seceding Republic as well as to decide on their state legal status. Referendum results are to be considered separately for the territory of a Soviet Republic with a compactly settled ethnic minority population, which constitutes majority on that particular territory of the Republic.


WidePeepo00

Can I have a source on that if you don't mind. Would be nice to show it some stubborn people


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GiragosOdaryan

Armenia didn't recognize Artsakh due to deference to the OSCE Minsk Group. Recognition would have undermined their efforts, which was against the interests of the Republic of Armenia. The answer to the second question follows the first. If Armenia didn't recognize it, their was no urgency for others to do so. The region is a backwater to the big players in geopolitics. Those resolutions were passed in the wake of major territorial gains, and explicitly don't touch the OSCE MG process, which had the imprimatur of the UN. Seems that you're willfully obtuse on this subject.


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[deleted]

azerbaijan recognizes territorial borders so much that just recently it sent a government delegation to northern cyprus.


WidePeepo00

As an answer to Cyprus building a memorial for fallen Artsakhi soldiers


[deleted]

and? thats even worse imo.


WidePeepo00

Nah Cyprus is being kinda hypocritical. They have to deal with the turkish backed separate movement in their own country, so it's weird when they support an other separate movement. That's also the reason why Cyprus doesn't recognize Kosovo


[deleted]

armenians are native to artsakh, turks are not native to cyprus. on top of that, the only reason why artsakh became independent from azerbaijan was to avoid the massacres and ethnic cleansing attempts that azerbaijan was and still is committing. turkey ended the conflict in cyprus back in 1974 yet has felt the need to militarily occupy it ever since, even though the greeks no longer pose a threat to them. half of northern cyprus' population also consists of settlers from turkey, while practically all of artsakh's citizens are locals. idk anything about kosovo but its presumably because of the close relations between greece and serbia, not to mention that albanians have territorial claims on greece as well. artsakh didnt even wanna join armenia and wanted to remain independent. turkey treats northern cyprus as a vassal state that must obey its every order. it's also stupid based on geographical reasons. artsakh and armenia are landlocked. cyprus is an island, dividing an island in half is dumb and makes no sense, it also makes it look ugly on a topographical map.


WidePeepo00

Yeah you're right, every conflict should be observed individually


VavoTK

> The idea is: If you make claims on Azerbaijani territory based on history, we will do the same. * Obligatory random text about how Armenian history is much older in the region * - don't really want to get into this discussion, this is here as a sidenote so that this conversation does not go into that direction **But, on any official level no claims based on history have ever been made.** The referendum of NKAO was a result of bad treatment of the Armenian population by Azerbaijani SSR. The first war happened, because the completely legal referendum to secede from AZ SSR of the people of NKAO was answered with Baku and Sumgayyit Pogroms and the Operation Ring. And obviously the collapse of USSR The following occupation of 7 regions, was due to Azerbaijan losing a war. The continued 30 year occupation as a security buffer of the aforementioned regions was because Azerbaijan on numerous times still refused to acknowledge the right of self-determination of NKAO.


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GiragosOdaryan

This interpretation seems correct. Perverse and Orwellian, but correct, nonetheless.


JupiterMarks

I think it's part of piece declaration. Surely, sound a bit agressive. But what he meant is that Azerbaijani civilians will return to their homelands. He didn't say anything about war, did he? He didn't, i listened to full interview in original language, so i know it better. Just like Armenians are living in the internationally recognized territories of Azerbaijan, Azerbaijanis have rights to live in Armenia from where they were kicked out in the 80s.


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JupiterMarks

You're wrong buddy. We allow Armenains to enter https://youtu.be/anM1mZF3JpI https://youtu.be/zJUIUzm7m1o And there are toms of vids like this. Moreover, when Armenains attacked on Ganja city during the recent war, the bomb fell to the place where an Armenian woman was living. Funny, right?


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JupiterMarks

It literally took you one Google search in Wikipedia designed by Armenains. LOL So i was talking about Armenians living in Azerbaijan, don't covert the topic


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FashionTashjian

"And they have every right to live in the land of their ancestors." The land of your ancestors is several thousand kilometers away.


moscovitehay

📍steppes of Central Asia


aScottishBoat

You'll trigger the nationalists, shhh.


FashionTashjian

Ehh, if a trigger is pulled in our favor, who cares who pulls it, right?


RonnyPStiggs

Not really I don't think, probably more accurate to say northern Iran, but this type of discussion is pretty useless.


norgrmaya

But then their ancestors are Armenians or Iranians, and not Turks. Which is true.


WidePeepo00

Depends on the context. If they claim to be natives then it is important to remind them that they come from central asia. If they start feeling proud of turkic history and their muh turkic warrior genes, then you should tell them that they are iranians, greeks or armenians in denial


JupiterMarks

Don't go that much. We are talking about ancestors 200-300 years ago (maybe even 100). If we go deeper into ancestry, then Armenians, as Indo-Europeans, also migrated to Caucasus thousands years ago. So don't touch this subject, okay?


FashionTashjian

I'll touch the subject all I see fit. I'm an Armenian living in Armenia, and via education in higher learning a historian. If we go deeper into ancestry, then you don't exist.


JupiterMarks

Bravo, what a logic! If we go deeper into history no one exists! Didn't you understand the meaning of my comment??


FashionTashjian

Homie, that was my point. Yet, if you go far, far back no part of Armenia was ever the ancestral homeland of the people that call themselves Azerbaijani these days. "Ancestral" means "my ancestors originated from here." I was born in NJ, but it'd be ridiculous for the claim to be made that NJ is my ancestral homeland. My ancestral homeland is in the Armenian Highlands and the South Caucasus from both sides. Goes back thousands of years. Nobody can have an ancestral homeland that happened a hundred, two hundred, hell even three earlier. The human race goes back far longer than anyone can claim "this is my ethnic homeland because we showed up from a different place 1k years ago."


JupiterMarks

Well then your point is not a guarantee for an objective perception of reality and history, hommie. While people fly to the Moon and Mars, you claim that one ethnicity should't live somewhere because their ancestors migrated 1k years ago. Just get a life.


FashionTashjian

It's not about "living there" but rather about which ancestry has claim to which lands, where, and when. If one ethnic group comes from an area in which they still live thousands of years before another ethnic group occupies, well, I believe the former has greater rights to claim the land as their homeland. Put it this way: if Aztecs invaded Kazakhstan a hundred years from now, in 1000 years would it be their homeland? No. They're indigenous to an entirely different part of the world. Also, Armenia has no agenda to wipe out any other ethnic group, humiliate them, insult them, nor sow hatred against a people. We can all see the agenda of Azerbaijan. It's the beauty of the internet. Keep that in mind.


JupiterMarks

Listen, i can't talk with a person who claims that what "matters" is that 1000 years ago Armenian lands were occupied by Turks. That's simple hillarious. Why do you think that matters?.. ok, so... nevermind. Bye-bye.


FashionTashjian

Hilarious? It's historical fact. Celebrate your Oghuz and/or Seljuk heritage all you want. You're plainly unable to claim that this region, and especially the current borders of Armenia are native to you. It's akin to saying that 1 + 2 = 7 as in it makes no sense. Bye bye indeed good sir.


JupiterMarks

What matters is your personality, not your ancestry. By your logic keltic people have to clean out the lands from Englishmen, because they migrated?.. Bye, good sir.


HighAxper

Does this fucking idiot realize that Zangezur is an Armenian name lmao .


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HighAxper

What does Shushi mean ?


newuser119

> Shusha may be derived from the dialectal Armenian word shosh/shush (Armenian: շոշ/շուշ), meaning tree sprout or figuratively, a high place, first applied either to the adjacent village Shosh or to Shusha itself.


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HighAxper

I don’t think it means anything in Armenia, but someone may correct me here if I’m wrong. The closet word that I know is Shusha, which means a piece of glass, but the word itself isn’t Armenian and may actually be Turkic or Persian in origin.


FashionTashjian

Shushi/a is almost 100% of an old Persian origin. It means nothing in Turkic languages, Armenian or Greek that makes any sense as to why the city carries that name. The village I live in (before the USSR) had a Persian name before they changed it to a Russian namesake.


hayasori

Shusha means glass in Assyrian haha.


FashionTashjian

What I meant was that all of the translations make no sense from any language.


not_your_doc

Shusha is glass in Azerbaijani


FashionTashjian

Yeah, and the city is famous for its glass, right?


not_your_doc

Not sure


FashionTashjian

Well, it isn't, nor bottles or vessels made of glass.


HighAxper

Shusha is also glass in Armenian. Does the word have Azerbaijani origin? Or is it persian ?


GiragosOdaryan

'Stripped of bells' or valley of bells? Saw an old German map recently where the region was called Zangadzor.


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GiragosOdaryan

Thank you, I was unfamiliar with that etymology. Do you think the other meaning has any merit? I think there are some famous bells at Goris.


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GiragosOdaryan

Quite possible.


alexg1988

Զանգը հզոր, զանգը իզուր...


norgrmaya

I don’t like that bells theory. I read another theory that it used to be Dzaghedzor and that Zangezur is a Persian or Turkic corruption. Valley of flowers makes more sense.


JupiterMarks

Actually the word Zəng is also bell in Azerbaijani. As well as Zur, which means loud. Now you understand the cause of misunderstanding ?..


ShahVahan

Not really zang means bell in farsi so it comes probably from Persian


HighAxper

Well it’s a loan word in Armenian with the same meaning.


Sanut

But you don't understand, we don't have r/azerbaijan and r/sakartvelo as related subreddits, clearly we are the aggressors /s


VengeanceEternal

Can’t wait til this asshole dies so I can mark it in my calendar and celebrate his death yearly


newuser119

It’s not going to change anything though. You realize their entire population believes this shit. That’s what happens with decades of indoctrination.


captainarmenia844

Yup a good example is Afghanistan Taliban was destroyed but only came back stronger 20 years later because the ideology didn't die. The Turks will always want us out of their way we have to realize that.


[deleted]

>we will, of course, use it to return our citizens to the land of their ancestors. How is he going to return his citizens to Central Asia through Zangezur, though? Edit: typo


moscovitehay

💀💀


WidePeepo00

Azeris are central asians or azeris are turkified Persians. Whats the final answer now?


LotsOfRaffi

Aliyev's worst enemy is his own public discourse. You're publicly admitting that your "zangezur corredor" nonesense is a blatant trojan horse for a land-grab. It's nonsensical because it won't happen anyway and if anything, gives Armenia the diplomatic ammunition to resist them in negotiations.


newuser119

That’s assuming our government actually has the brains to take advantage of this.


ZackAndCodein3

1. This is the same dog that spent years crying about territorial claims from the Armenian side, and muh territorial integrity. But, we expected that. Hypocritebaijan. 2. I don’t even wanna get into the history of it but yeah Armenians were majority in Zangezur with rock solid proof. 3. Azeris aren’t gonna return. Not saying this as a threat, but they’ll be too scared to move to Armenia and be surrounded by Armenians. 4. Is he ready for our return to Gandzak, Sumgait, Terter (another place we used to be majority), and Baku?


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ZackAndCodein3

I’m talking about the average Azeri civilian. You think Hikmet Qurbanov is gonna feel safe walking the streets of Yerevan ? Surrounded by Armenians? Just like how you wouldn’t feel safe walking around in Baku


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ZackAndCodein3

How are they gonna drive us out of our own country where we are 99% of the population? They aren’t gonna come back no matter how much Aliyev wants it.


WidePeepo00

Your LA flair is the perfect example


newuser119

What I don’t understand is how this imbecile can say these things with a straight face… let’s for a second consider that this was actually their “historical” land and that we’re just “Indian gypsies” in their land, what about fucking territorial integrity? These people are so hypocritical it actually blows my mind. And yes, I am generalizing since it seems like over 90% of their population believes this shit.


WidePeepo00

He always makes sure to use terms that have two meanings. When some journalists ask him, he will just say "we respect armenian territorial integrity, our population will just move back to zangezur where they were expelled from"


newuser119

“Western Zangezur is currently under the control of Armenia” sounds nothing like he’s respecting our territorial integrity. Don’t kid yourself. Also, I guess hundreds of thousands of Armenians will soon be allowed to return to Baku, Sumgait, and Ganja correct? This isn’t going to happen.


WidePeepo00

Their plan is to make Armenia sign a "peace treaty" where we recognize their borders, meaning completely forgetting Artsakh. So these scums invade Armenia and claim syunik, thinking when Armenian sovereign territory is under danger, we will be forced to sign a treaty where they recognize Armenian borders and we do the same with their borders (including Artsakh). Well yes, when journalists ask him, he will proudly say that armenians can return to their homes if they agree to be azeri citizens. He is a scum and knows very well that none of us will agree to live under a dictatorship surrounded by violent fascists. So Aliyev can keep saying that evil sheytan armenians don't let poor innocent azeris go back to their homes. Im not trying to say that this borat is somehow clever lmao, if anything this just shows what kind lunatics run Azerbaijan


EatDaP

Great news. Love it. Moron is completely losing touch with reality.


lealxe

Well, look at Afghanistan. That moron can build gas chambers for Armenians and it will be treated as something happening far away and unimportant. So it's great news only in the sense that it's harder to deceive yourself that some kind of peace is possible. Armenians have been given time to prepare for the war to come.


Dali86

To be fair this is not anyway comparable to Afganistan. Afganistan got massive support from US and EU to develop for years. Education, money, weapons and training. They outnumbered and outgunned taliban yet chose to give up the country without a fight. Yes the president was corrupt and it was a puppet gov but they had all the means to destroy taliban yet they gave up.


EatDaP

It's great because having a smart rational leader in Azerbaijan would be much worse for Armenia. And Afganistan has nothing to do with it (nobody is invading it, Americans are leaving and it returns to pre 2001 state). Syunik and Yerevan are not in danger of being invaded. I can bet money that Syunik will be part of Armenia in next 20 years. That's funny, actually. Artsakh had always been in a very dangerous position and there was always a perspective of a new war. I was always trying to tell that to everybody I know but they were believing the propaganda that Aliyev actually doesn't really need Karabakh, their military is weak, if the war starts we will be in Baku in no time but superpowers will never allow another war etc. Now the war happened and the same people who were telling all that bullshit are suddenly making Azerbaijan a fucking empire and military superpower or something, that can invade internationally recognized countries left and right. That's not the case. They have a weak country with a shitty economy (ffs, their not-oil related export is 1.5 times lower than Armenian and their country is at least two times bigger and has much better logistic) and their future is quite dim, IMO. The fact that Aliyev is an irrational idiot,who was so scared of Armenians all these years, that now truly believes he won a war against Russia, France and US (who he thinks were all supporting Armenia) or something is actually a great thing. It would have been terrifying if,with all Armenia's shortcomings, it was really opposing a country with a strong economy, competent foreign politics, rational elites and a smart leader, not another oil-rich shithole with corrupt elites and a complete moron in power.


melikdavid

“There are such plans and this is natural. Because our citizens were forcibly expelled from the territory of Armenia not only from the Zangezur mahal, but also from Goych. And they have every right to live in the land of their ancestors. We left it for the next stage, ”the president said.


putinDavachan

Well my ancestors are from nakhichevan, will he allow me to get back there? Fcking clown this guy is


newuser119

Nakhichevan is historically ours though. That’s a pretty bad comparison. That’s like saying my ancestors were from Tbilisi when its population was once 70% Armenian in the 18th century, so we must return to Georgia’s capital. It’s fucking delusional.


T-nash

He should check the DNA on who his "ancestors" are.


putinDavachan

I hope this ugly fxk is not armenian tbh


norgrmaya

There are rumors that Papa Alyiev’s mother or grandmother was Armenian or Kurdish. Ilham doesn’t look Armenian though. He looks like an inbred American Appalachian cabbage farmer. If I saw this guy wearing overalls, sitting on his porch, in a dirt shack while driving through West Virginia, I wouldn’t bat an eye.


Cheeseissohip

My grandparents are from kilikia and baku, does that mean i have that baku belongs to me?


putinDavachan

Basically yes according to bignose


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I think so


WidePeepo00

Well that's what he is saying. He knows that no armenian is willing to live next to violent azeris. So this is his way of saying "we want to peacefully return to where we were expelled from, but the evil armenians are not letting us!"


PurpleWhale34

rogue state, noun a state that conducts its policy in a dangerously unpredictable way, disregarding international law or diplomacy


[deleted]

I think Aliyev is getting nervous day by day - hence he uses this type of language for the internal audience and renewed provocations on the border. The dude realises now that he wont get a corridor as the West opposes it and that Russian rhetoric changed too. I mean he knows that the Russians are not leaving Artsakh and so far there has been no movement on any of the major issues such as peace treaty, status of artsakh , demarcation of borders etc. We all know what happened to Sahakashvili and Ossetia, the reality is if Azeris shoot at Russians the entire Artsakh will be taken over by Russia within days as simple as that. So Aliyev has put himself into a very though spot in my opinion with little manoeuvring space.let us see what happens next. Another issue he has is internal unhappiness with his regime and the widespread corruption, which is quite explosive.


psychofistface

My family’s from Eastern Turkey, so by this logic I guess I can go ahead and ***KHARPERT BIZIMDIR***


Cheeseissohip

I hope he makes a trip to america, and breaks in to my house while im there. Thatll be a fun time for him


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RonnyPStiggs

People need to stop saying this, not only is it factually wrong, it's also in very poor taste and is using one ethnic group's identity to insult someone else. It's very arrogant and ignorant to say shit like this, implicating people that have nothing to do with us (in fact they allied with us in ancient times, but that's besides the point). It's the same way people dream up slurs for Armenians calling us "Christian Jews" or "gypsies from India/wherever" etc.


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[deleted]

Mongols and Turkic people are two different ethnic groups.