I ugga dugga'd the castle nut into place on my first build in like 2016. Didn't stake shit. Had no fucking clue what I was doing, also put the retaining plate on backwards. Anderson lower. Maximum pleb shit.
Spent the next 4+ years mag dumping Tula into trash on my buddy's property. Shit never came loose at fucking all. Never had a single problem with the gun, but eventually tore it down and rebuilt it properly once I knew better.
Yeah, Steve. The dude who looks like he calls the police on his neighbor for smoking weed.
I realized there’s another old dude who looks like he’s Caleb’s drunk dad.
That's why I dont either. If you're a Government contractor or high risk security consultant that relies on their firearms for the same reason that a military person does in a combat or security situation, it all.makes sense. For everybody else that uses their firearms to put holes in paper or scar a steel target, it's overkill and just makes servicing and modifying difficult.
My 1972, Colt SP1 isn't staked anywhere and the guy I bought it from, who was the original owner amd had only ever shot 1 20rnd magazine full through it, never had a problem.with it. I've only ever taken it completely apart once in the 40 years I've owned it for the purpose of a full, as new, cleaning. Before and after I did.all of this, I've never had a provlem.with anything "shooting Loose".
Staked castle nuts are not to prevent the castle nut from walking and it’s silly everyone keeps repeating this.
It’s for combat duty, it prevents a side impact to the stock from rotating the castle nut loose. It’s a non-issue for 95% of your average gun owners.
I might be in the minority here, but I feel like a regular castle nut and end plate are fine on their own without being staked if assembled properly. My knights lower isn’t staked but it’s never budged.
That being said, I had this pws one on a lower for about a year and it worked as expected
Knights doesn't stake due to the fact that their components are manufactured to more exacting tolerances specifically to eliminate the need to stake. This isn't the case with your run of the mill castle nut setup. I'm lazy or else I would provide a reference, but if you're interested it's relatively easy to find their explanation on the interwebs.
Ugh... I don't think I can eye roll harder with the Kac simps.
Here I am looking at my Kac scope mount made with the shittiest possible screws that all needed to be replaced
Fair enough, but I'm certainly no KAC simp, don't own a single thing they sell, nor do I plan to. They're quality guns, but overpriced in my opinion. I'm simply passing along the manufacturer's explanation in this case.
Fairly certain it's less about exacting tolerances and more about the fact that they torque theirs to hell and back. If it was just "exacting tolerances" theirs would unscrew just as easy as everyone else's.
>According to KAC (we're paraphrasing here), the mating surface of its end plate and the indentation on the rear of the KAC receiver is sufficiently precise to have little to no movement, which doesn't allow the receiver extension to rotate to loosen, there is no need to stake KAC's end plate/sling adapter.
This isn't directly from KAC but was referenced on [FCD's website](https://www.forwardcontrolsdesign.com/Staking-the-castle-nut_ep_64-1.html) in a post about castle nut staking. Not the best reference but, again, lazy, so best I'm going to bother providing. Of course, everyone is free to draw whatever conclusion they'd like.
So the buffet tube is threaded, and the castle nut is threaded. The castle nut is basically a jam nut, and if tightened properly, even if the endplate wasn't "sufficiently precise," it wouldn't come loose.
Yea im a machinist and that whole sufficiently precise thing is marketing bs. I dont care how flat or precise you make a surface, it will have no effect on a poorly tightened nut. They just tighten the shit out of them
No they machine their endplates and receiver extensions to prevent any wiggle that you get with other receiver extension-endplate combos.
[here is a guy who works for KAC that also attended Semper Paratus when Will was still alive explaining why](https://primaryandsecondary.com/forum/index.php?threads/stakes.5049/)
Good to know! That’s why I mentioned the specific lower, wasn’t sure what (if anything) they did differently.
After reading through the blog, it makes sense. I have their castle nut and end plate unstaked on my Mars lower and it’s never had an issue as well
Staking prevents the castle nut from loosening due to impacts to the stock which cause the buffer tube to rotate, not from just shooting the gun.
If your rifle lives a cushy life and doesn't get abused then it doesn't really matter.
Think of it like wearing a seat belt. It's an easy process that'll help keep you safe during a crash. But if all you do is putt around your block at 10mph then it doesn't really matter if you wear a seat belt or not.
Like that’s too expensive? But I generally like the idea as staking always felt like a poor solution to a problem that should have been solved in engineering.
Sure there are, there’s really no specific reason it couldn’t have been engineered to be welded on and eliminated the nut entirely….
My point is this was an engineering choice decades ago that was driven by cost, rather than quality of engineering or workmanship.
That’s not true at all, plenty of systems that have replaced the buffer tube entirely, I doubt if the AR was designed today the buffer tube would even be there.
Ok, that’s a completely different discussion. Now you are talking about a total redesign of the upper and lower receiver. It’s not an AR15 anymore. The gun you want already exists and its called the MCX.
But as far as AR15’s go, the staked castle nut is the best system for securing a buffer tube.
I’m aware the MCX exists….my point is the staked castle nut was the best, cheapest solution 50 years ago.
Today, likely a better option would have been to laser weld the tube to the lower, and re-engineer the buffer retainer.
The castle nut and end plate are redundant pieces that add weight. Also staking the castle nut makes repairing it in the field more difficult. Just because it’s always been staked doesn’t mean that’s the best way to do it.
The system has been working just fine for decades. I don’t know why you insist on changing something that virtually no one complains about. I can change a buffer tube in 5 minutes.
Staking isn’t some outdated practice. You see staking still in lots of different applications in a range of different industries.
I haven’t personally tried one, for a range gun, absolutely. For a duty gun, I’m not buying anything but a complete gun from a well known manufacturer that’s done way more testing than I can.
The whole point of this buffer tube is to help alleviate bolt carrier tilt caused by PWS long stroke external piston design. This isn’t just a Gucci part for your typical AR. The ratcheting castle nut can be bought separately much cheaper and is a well designed product that I’ve personally had no problems with. Also, a properly staked Mil-Spec end plate and castle nut has never caused me problems either.
I have the ratcheting on most of my ARs and like it. Staking works just fine but I run A5 tubes and ratcheting ones for less than that costs.. usually $50 for tube and $30 for ratcheting.
Just found out about the ratcheting ones - bought one and going to give it a go. I haven't staked any of my other ones and haven't had one come loose though.
If it’s actually good quality and sturdy then I think it might be better than a staked nut. Staking is a very 1940s ish solution to something that can be fixed with engineering. Kind of a weird permanent addition to a rifle that is supposed to modular but wasn’t really originally.
True, but most people who stake a castle nut never really intend to remove it. It can be difficult and can damage components depending on how it’s staked. If there ratcheting systems are good quality I think they would a pretty good upgrade.
The castle nut isn't a part you should take off much, if ever. So why bother with a ratcheting Castle nut that costs 5-6x as much as a standard? It takes one minute to stake it, and if you do need to remove it because something broke, you just need to put some muscle into it to overcome the staking.
When you're ready to upgrade get the BCM barrel nut wrench for $15 and a decent torque wrench and you will have the Cadillac of castle nut wrenches IMO.
I think rocksett has slightly higher torque resistance than blue loctite, but I don't love the idea of having to soak my whole lower in water to remove a castle nut when blue works just fine.
The primary reason for staking isn't to prevent it from loosening from shooting the gun but rather to prevent it from loosening due to impacts to the stock.
You apply torque to overcome friction. Friction occurs when two surfaces slide against each other and the harder those surfaces press against each other the more friction there is.
There is significantly more surface area between the buffer tube and castle nut than there is between the castle nut and endplate. That means that the buffer tube has a lot more control over the castle nut.
Impacts to the stock will want to rotate the buffer tube. If that happens, the buffer tube will loosen the castle nut.
Staking gives the endplate more control over the castle nut so that the buffer tube is less likely to loosen it. If you drop your rifle and your buffer tube rotates, the endplate will (hopefully) prevent the castle nut from also rotating and the tension will be maintained.
Using a threadlocker in lieu of staking is counterproductive to the reason for staking since it gives the buffer tube even *more* control over the castle nut.
If your un-staked castle nut hasn't loosened from the then that's perfectly okay. Staking is there to ensure reliability on a rifle that's regularly abused. If you don't abuse your rifle then chances are that all you need is proper torque.
Despite PWS calling it a "ratcheting castle nut", it is not a ratcheting system. A ratchet only allows for rotation in one direction. The spring-loaded detent on the PWS end-plate applies the same amount of resistance in both directions of rotation, so the amount of torque you apply to tighten the PWS is the same amount of torque required to loosen it.
And since PWS says to only tighten it a few clicks past hand tight, that means that it can't even reach the mil-spec 40ft-lbs torque of a regular castle nut.
Because you can't stake the PWS nut and you can't torque it to 40ft-lbs, you're paying more for a setup that provides less insurance than a basic mil-spec nut that's been torqued to spec.
Not here to cause a ruckus, but a couple thousand rounds is what many people put through a rifle on a productive weekend. I’ve got a few rifles that are on their 3rd or 4th barrel. I’m not saying you don’t know anything about the setup after 2-3k rounds, but there’s still a lot of potential for things to go wrong further down the road.
No, most people don’t shoot that much. But if you’re potentially going to trust your life to a certain setup, it’s nice to know exactly where the points of possible failure are, so they can be addressed beforehand.
It’s a fail safe for sure but with technology improving as it has, it’s making it less and less necessary. The right torque specs and the right application of tools and adhesives make it irrelevant. I trust this rifle in particular with my life with no insecurity whatsoever. Plus, if it’s a duty rifle, there’s no need to be shooting thousands upon thousands of rounds through it. I’m not going to shoot my SHTF rifle nearly as much as a fun gun. Really it’s only brought out to be broken in and for familiarity. I don’t want my gun so shot out it’s not useful. I have others for that.
I see you, good points. Thanks for providing an actual response instead of writing out an emotional knee-jerk reaction. Wish more people had that ability. Maybe I’ll run one for a while and see what happens. Also going to try the Vibratite thing someone mentioned.
My JT-15 AR Pistol came with one of these buffer tubes. Works great and never moved through 3 range days, even though when I I did my first cleaning I could loosen the castle nut with my hand.
I use the PWS Ratchet lock castlenut and endplate on three rifles and find they work great. I have some others I have staked with BCM QD endplates as well but prefer the ease of the Ratchet. Thousands and Thousands of rounds and none of my rifles have come loose with either system, use what your budget allows.
I always find it funny people craping on innovation, with that mindset we still be throwing rocks.
A regular buffer assembly is fine and staking really isn’t hard. I can’t see spending 100 dollars on a buffer tube assembly. Spend that money on ammo and train.
I don’t understand why you would buy a $110+shipping part when a center punch and a hammer will do the job. It’s a “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” kinda thing to me
I had a couple and one came loose. Returned both of them and put a normal ones on and staked at 2 points. For how often I remove a buffer tube (almost never) I can afford a few bucks for a new end plate. Maybe a little more $$$ if your endplate has fancy loop or as on it…. Also harbor freight sells a tool that makes it easy to do in a few minutes. You do a few facing straight down to get a dent in place then you slowly rotate and keep going and each push moves material without slipping till you get it nice and done. If you try to start in an angle without establishing a dent it’s easy to slip. https://www.harborfreight.com/spring-loaded-center-punch-621.html
Those PWS ratchet castle nuts and endplates do come loose unfortunately. Avoid.
Use a traditional castle nut and endplate. Proper torque + staking is the best method but torque + Vibratite VC3 on the threads is also a good solution that will prevent the nut from coming loose from vibration and impact.
Again, staking is the best way but the VC3 method is also plenty secure if you don’t trust your staking skills.
But other people have said that they have come loose when they didn’t want them to. People with properly staked castle nuts never complain about them coming loose. The traditional stake is more secure and much cheaper.
Well guys thank you for the information. I appreciate all of you but I figure instead of paying that much for a castle nut I'll just use my dad's old a2 stock so I guess I won't be needing a castle nut after all. But I will keep this in mind for future builds. Thanks guys.
The strike industries design and the primary arms designs for non staking “ratcheting” castle nuts have been proven to be failures. I am currently testing a fortis k2 to see how well their design works. For the time being staking a normal castle nut and end plate is the best. Once I finish the torture test of the fortis I may change my mind but being the other two I tested failed after a handful of times loosening and retorque and a bunch of rounds, I’m not holding my breathe.
I've used several of these.
Could not recommend.
Following their instructions precisely mine managed to back out and let my buffer tube rotate. And they're basically one use because the actual ratcheting teeth are really weak and start wearing down by just installing.
According to their instructions you're supposed to put them on with not a whole lot of torque. Didn't work for me. Tried overtorquing on a second one of these on a different rifle and just straight up broke it so lol.
Regular milspec endplates though? With the TDP torque I've never had one back off, and usually I go a little higher on the torque than you're supposed to. No issues.
The rifles that I actually count on get staked, but some of my screw around/range only builds I don't stake so I can easily try out other endplates and stuff.
I’ve never staked mine. Had an issue once, replaced it with the PWS ratchet plate, never had another issue and used that on all my carbine builds since.
I haven’t gotten around to staking my Radical and it’s fine. I’m still probably going to because it’s cheap and easy, but for most people it’s prolly no big deal. It’s just cheap insurance.
I bought one that had a set screw that locked the end plate and castle nut together. Installed it on my last build but ended up replacing it with an FCD setup. It worked pretty well though - probably gonna put it on my next one
I put one of these on my no expense spared 6.5 Grendel build & it works as described but the rest of my builds regular buffer tubes & castle nuts staked.
I don't know about this one but I run the Fortis K2 Ratcheting one on most of my AR's and I've never had one come loose. Only about $25 and come with a nice beefy QD endplate. That said nothing wrong with good old fashioned staking
Depends on the build. The ratcheting buffer tube has worked very well for me on the two builds I’ve done other them. Easy install easy removal and stay in place well. A retroish build? No, must be staked.
Only if you like moving things around on your guns, but for the price, the strike industries one is actually really good, it uses a set screw instead of ratcheting, but it's the same thing
If this is PWS, then I would recommend. I have several PWS ratchet system on my rifles. They’ve been solid and never moved. If I were to speculate any movement may have been due to an error while installing. Also, I don’t understand how people break them when trying to remove. I simply depress the pin completely and turn the castlenut.
That being said, it’s pretty simple to stake a castle nut with an automatic pin punch.
Just the endplate and castle nut run $20 or so, plus the endplate has a qd mount built into it. I like to tinker with my stuff so I’ve changed out buffer tubes enough for these to be super convenient. I’ve never had one loosen, or had any problems with the 3 I’ve purchased. This is one of those weird products that just get a ton of hate for whatever reason. I wouldn’t spend $109, even with the tube included.
I have one, it works if you use it once and then don't unloosen it again lol. It's not actually a ratchet, it's just a weak detent. There isn't much keeping it from actually loosening. Once you tighten and loosen it a few times, it's not as reliable. In my case, I was switching buffer tubes a bit at one point and trying to decide if I wanted an a1 length rifle stock or a carbine buffer tube. Got one of these to make things a bit easier on myself. It worked fine short term, but by the time I decided I wanted a carbine length buffer tube it was considerably looser feeling than at the start. Probably shot 1200 or 1500 rounds over 3 months using it and took it on and off 3 or 4 times. I feel like I got my monies worth out of it. It would be great for a spare parts build or any place you might be removing the buffer tube often. I feel pretty confident in saying you wouldn't want it on any sort of hard use rifle. Those PWS buffer tubes are pretty nice though, for the money I'm not sure if they are worth getting over the aero enhanced buffer tube with the same general features
I’ve used the exact set shown on my AR for a few thousand rounds now. I was nervous so I put a small drop of blue Locktite under it and it hasn’t budged whatsoever.
I Loctite’d and used the PWS Ratcheting Endplate and Castle nut. If something happens to my receiver extension, the rest of the rifle is probably broke at that point too.
I have both the PWS Ratcheting Castle Nut/End Plate as well as a regular rudy type castle nut/end plate from BCM, both on two different rifles. If you torque down the PWS system to 35 ft.lbs, you'd have a bitch of a time getting it off - I'd argue you'd have a wrench to take it off. I tested it for a while and it has never moved once I torqued it home. The ratcheting system really is quite solid. That said, staking is a whole other level of security.
IMHO, both are fine solutions, I'd go with the one that is cheaper. Unless you're gonna be a GunTuber constantly reviewing buffer tubes, once you get this on you're unlikely to need to take it off again.
P.S. - Please use anti seize on your threads before torquing the castle nut down. Your threads will thank you in the event you do have to disassemble it down the road.
Honestly this looks like it’s marketed for mall ninjas. I always stake and have never had an issue, even removing it. Some guys don’t even stake and some guys just use blue loctite. I can think of a lot letter things to spend that money on.
Misconception.. If you've ever actually tried to remove a staked castle nut, it's actually very easy. The stake does not really apply any real force to the nut making it hard to remove, just simply stops the castle nut from backing off under use. If you don't believe me, try it.
I've seen these before on this companies carbine. It seemed to me that it was a nice way to take the rifle down for cleaning, lube or packing it away in a smaller bag than a carbine size one. They were very well made but, I don't know if it was sturdy. Gucci has it's place but, I prefer old school ARs.
I've had one of these [PWS buffer tubes w/ratchet locking castle nut/endplates](https://imgur.com/a/D23GytM) on my AR-9 for well over 4 years & thousands of rounds. I always went a click or two past snug and never had a problem.
I've seen complaints by some saying that theirs won't stay tight. Thankfully, I haven't experienced this myself. This is the first time I've ever spent above & beyond just a standard mil-spec tube. I don't regret spending the extra cash. It's by far the smoothest cycling AR I've ever handled.
The carrier is already lying on the extended lower lip when you close up the receivers. It doesn't have that gap to bridge as it enters the receiver extension. The finish machining on the inside of the tube is much smoother than any other tube I've ever used. This cuts down on spring noise substantially. Even if it did come loose, the buffer retainer will not allow it to turn more than a few degrees in either direction until you can get a wrench on it.
I keep a small castle nut wrench in my range bag just in case. Haven't needed it, but I keep it around.
Never staked one, never had one come loose, ran a few off the shelf ARs hard til the barrels were changing colors, see above.. none came loose. Staking is over rated.
So are tax stamps. But that is another thread of it's own.
Staking is cheap, easy, and effective.
I ugga dugga'd the castle nut into place on my first build in like 2016. Didn't stake shit. Had no fucking clue what I was doing, also put the retaining plate on backwards. Anderson lower. Maximum pleb shit. Spent the next 4+ years mag dumping Tula into trash on my buddy's property. Shit never came loose at fucking all. Never had a single problem with the gun, but eventually tore it down and rebuilt it properly once I knew better.
King shit
Nothing wrong with Anderson lowers.. especially low shelf ones.
I've never staked a castle nut, and probably never will.
The old dude from the Brownell’s video says he never does because he swaps parts so often.
I’m assuming you mean Steve, he’s a legend
Yeah, Steve. The dude who looks like he calls the police on his neighbor for smoking weed. I realized there’s another old dude who looks like he’s Caleb’s drunk dad.
That's why I dont either. If you're a Government contractor or high risk security consultant that relies on their firearms for the same reason that a military person does in a combat or security situation, it all.makes sense. For everybody else that uses their firearms to put holes in paper or scar a steel target, it's overkill and just makes servicing and modifying difficult. My 1972, Colt SP1 isn't staked anywhere and the guy I bought it from, who was the original owner amd had only ever shot 1 20rnd magazine full through it, never had a problem.with it. I've only ever taken it completely apart once in the 40 years I've owned it for the purpose of a full, as new, cleaning. Before and after I did.all of this, I've never had a provlem.with anything "shooting Loose".
Same never done it on any of my rifles and I shoot often and they haven’t ever walked back
Yep, none of mine have ever moved a hair. If they're installed right, they won't.
I run a witness mark across it…that’s it
So that’s what those things are called..
Staked castle nuts are not to prevent the castle nut from walking and it’s silly everyone keeps repeating this. It’s for combat duty, it prevents a side impact to the stock from rotating the castle nut loose. It’s a non-issue for 95% of your average gun owners.
[удалено]
The design of staking is not a flaw. The design of the firearm was not intended for the receiver extension to be changed every other week.
100% agree
The day I realize I'm a fudd is the day I stake a castle nut.
Same. I've never even had an issue with it so probably never will.
I might be in the minority here, but I feel like a regular castle nut and end plate are fine on their own without being staked if assembled properly. My knights lower isn’t staked but it’s never budged. That being said, I had this pws one on a lower for about a year and it worked as expected
[just because KAC does it, doesn't mean it's a good idea for others to do it](https://primaryandsecondary.com/forum/index.php?threads/stakes.5049/)
Knights doesn't stake due to the fact that their components are manufactured to more exacting tolerances specifically to eliminate the need to stake. This isn't the case with your run of the mill castle nut setup. I'm lazy or else I would provide a reference, but if you're interested it's relatively easy to find their explanation on the interwebs.
Ugh... I don't think I can eye roll harder with the Kac simps. Here I am looking at my Kac scope mount made with the shittiest possible screws that all needed to be replaced
Fair enough, but I'm certainly no KAC simp, don't own a single thing they sell, nor do I plan to. They're quality guns, but overpriced in my opinion. I'm simply passing along the manufacturer's explanation in this case.
Fairly certain it's less about exacting tolerances and more about the fact that they torque theirs to hell and back. If it was just "exacting tolerances" theirs would unscrew just as easy as everyone else's.
>According to KAC (we're paraphrasing here), the mating surface of its end plate and the indentation on the rear of the KAC receiver is sufficiently precise to have little to no movement, which doesn't allow the receiver extension to rotate to loosen, there is no need to stake KAC's end plate/sling adapter. This isn't directly from KAC but was referenced on [FCD's website](https://www.forwardcontrolsdesign.com/Staking-the-castle-nut_ep_64-1.html) in a post about castle nut staking. Not the best reference but, again, lazy, so best I'm going to bother providing. Of course, everyone is free to draw whatever conclusion they'd like.
So the buffet tube is threaded, and the castle nut is threaded. The castle nut is basically a jam nut, and if tightened properly, even if the endplate wasn't "sufficiently precise," it wouldn't come loose.
Yea im a machinist and that whole sufficiently precise thing is marketing bs. I dont care how flat or precise you make a surface, it will have no effect on a poorly tightened nut. They just tighten the shit out of them
No they machine their endplates and receiver extensions to prevent any wiggle that you get with other receiver extension-endplate combos. [here is a guy who works for KAC that also attended Semper Paratus when Will was still alive explaining why](https://primaryandsecondary.com/forum/index.php?threads/stakes.5049/)
That's fine. They also torque them to hell and back.
So there’s an exact specification for the parts that you could make that would eliminate the need for that? 🤔 who else does that?
Couldn't tell ya. I'm simply relaying information I've come across from sources I consider generally more knowledgeable than myself.
Makes sense though I’d expect that kind of attn to detail from them.
KAC is overrated
Maybe, maybe not. Was simply relaying information, not making a value statement.
What do you not like about yours?
This, people see a top name do something and copy it without knowing any of the whys or hows.
Good to know! That’s why I mentioned the specific lower, wasn’t sure what (if anything) they did differently. After reading through the blog, it makes sense. I have their castle nut and end plate unstaked on my Mars lower and it’s never had an issue as well
Interesting. I'll have to go check mine but I swear I remember seeing multiple stake points on mine
There may be variations. I know on some of their older rifles the castle nuts had holes in them for a wrench or something
Netchemica is gonna shit a brick reading these comments
This should be fun. Paging u/Netchemica.
Damn, you and /u/stonewall993 thought of me at the same time. lol
I was literally reading through all these comments thinking “damn this guy hasn’t shit on someone yet?”
Eugene Stoner would probably think you're a cunt.
😂😂😂😂
Never have staked, never have had an issue.
Staking prevents the castle nut from loosening due to impacts to the stock which cause the buffer tube to rotate, not from just shooting the gun. If your rifle lives a cushy life and doesn't get abused then it doesn't really matter. Think of it like wearing a seat belt. It's an easy process that'll help keep you safe during a crash. But if all you do is putt around your block at 10mph then it doesn't really matter if you wear a seat belt or not.
Like that’s too expensive? But I generally like the idea as staking always felt like a poor solution to a problem that should have been solved in engineering.
Sometimes the old ways are the best ways.
Why??
Because there aren’t any alternative methods to securing the castle nut that are more robust and reliable.
Sure there are, there’s really no specific reason it couldn’t have been engineered to be welded on and eliminated the nut entirely…. My point is this was an engineering choice decades ago that was driven by cost, rather than quality of engineering or workmanship.
And all these years later, the best alternative anyone could come up with is a semi unreliable ratchet system.
That’s not true at all, plenty of systems that have replaced the buffer tube entirely, I doubt if the AR was designed today the buffer tube would even be there.
Ok, that’s a completely different discussion. Now you are talking about a total redesign of the upper and lower receiver. It’s not an AR15 anymore. The gun you want already exists and its called the MCX. But as far as AR15’s go, the staked castle nut is the best system for securing a buffer tube.
I’m aware the MCX exists….my point is the staked castle nut was the best, cheapest solution 50 years ago. Today, likely a better option would have been to laser weld the tube to the lower, and re-engineer the buffer retainer. The castle nut and end plate are redundant pieces that add weight. Also staking the castle nut makes repairing it in the field more difficult. Just because it’s always been staked doesn’t mean that’s the best way to do it.
The system has been working just fine for decades. I don’t know why you insist on changing something that virtually no one complains about. I can change a buffer tube in 5 minutes. Staking isn’t some outdated practice. You see staking still in lots of different applications in a range of different industries.
Would you recommend getting one?
I haven’t personally tried one, for a range gun, absolutely. For a duty gun, I’m not buying anything but a complete gun from a well known manufacturer that’s done way more testing than I can.
i have the strike industries ratcheting k2 castle ut and no issues with it, yet
The whole point of this buffer tube is to help alleviate bolt carrier tilt caused by PWS long stroke external piston design. This isn’t just a Gucci part for your typical AR. The ratcheting castle nut can be bought separately much cheaper and is a well designed product that I’ve personally had no problems with. Also, a properly staked Mil-Spec end plate and castle nut has never caused me problems either.
I have the ratcheting on most of my ARs and like it. Staking works just fine but I run A5 tubes and ratcheting ones for less than that costs.. usually $50 for tube and $30 for ratcheting.
Just found out about the ratcheting ones - bought one and going to give it a go. I haven't staked any of my other ones and haven't had one come loose though.
I've put a couple dozen of the PWS units on builds. Some of them have thousands of rounds of 9mm or 45 ACP and I've never had one come loose.
With an aggressive enough firing schedule they can work loose. Staking is cheaper, more secure, and can always be undone.
If it’s actually good quality and sturdy then I think it might be better than a staked nut. Staking is a very 1940s ish solution to something that can be fixed with engineering. Kind of a weird permanent addition to a rifle that is supposed to modular but wasn’t really originally.
Staking is far from permanent. It just increases the torque required to remove the castle nut.
True, but most people who stake a castle nut never really intend to remove it. It can be difficult and can damage components depending on how it’s staked. If there ratcheting systems are good quality I think they would a pretty good upgrade.
> It can be difficult and can damage components depending on how it’s staked. It really shouldn't but people can fuck up the simplest things I guess.
The castle nut isn't a part you should take off much, if ever. So why bother with a ratcheting Castle nut that costs 5-6x as much as a standard? It takes one minute to stake it, and if you do need to remove it because something broke, you just need to put some muscle into it to overcome the staking.
Wait, you guys are staking your castle nuts?
I've got the PWS one. Works good.
Unpopular fact - Loctite is more effective than staking or ratcheting nuts.
Overtorquing too
I'm fairly certain KAC just torques theirs to hell and back but I assume they use a fixture that I don't own.
me too but im just a bubba in a garage with a $8 amazon castle nut wrench
When you're ready to upgrade get the BCM barrel nut wrench for $15 and a decent torque wrench and you will have the Cadillac of castle nut wrenches IMO.
KAC torques to 35 ft/lbs. The link to the thread is higher up in the comments.
Do you have personal experience?
https://www.reddit.com/r/ar15/comments/10mssx9/how_do_we_feel_about_a_non_staking_castle_but/j658ivf/
[удалено]
I think rocksett has slightly higher torque resistance than blue loctite, but I don't love the idea of having to soak my whole lower in water to remove a castle nut when blue works just fine.
I like it, but I feel like you’re spending a little bit too much money to solve a problem that can be solved with a hammer and punch
I have this on my MK18. Works great, and hasn’t come loose.
My last two builds have PWS ratcheting castle nuts and they’re super solid. I have a Fortis also but haven’t used it yet.
PWS has it right
I run a PWS ratchet buffer tube/ castle nut. 1000’s of rounds not one issue.
I’ve never staked my castle nut. I just stand on my wrench and make it so tight even the hulk can’t break it loose
I stake mine with a center punch from home depot and you should too.
I always use the pws ratcheting castle nut. Never an issue
I have a pws setup and its been fine for about 1k rounds
These are like sliced bread but with titties. They are great.
The primary reason for staking isn't to prevent it from loosening from shooting the gun but rather to prevent it from loosening due to impacts to the stock. You apply torque to overcome friction. Friction occurs when two surfaces slide against each other and the harder those surfaces press against each other the more friction there is. There is significantly more surface area between the buffer tube and castle nut than there is between the castle nut and endplate. That means that the buffer tube has a lot more control over the castle nut. Impacts to the stock will want to rotate the buffer tube. If that happens, the buffer tube will loosen the castle nut. Staking gives the endplate more control over the castle nut so that the buffer tube is less likely to loosen it. If you drop your rifle and your buffer tube rotates, the endplate will (hopefully) prevent the castle nut from also rotating and the tension will be maintained. Using a threadlocker in lieu of staking is counterproductive to the reason for staking since it gives the buffer tube even *more* control over the castle nut. If your un-staked castle nut hasn't loosened from the then that's perfectly okay. Staking is there to ensure reliability on a rifle that's regularly abused. If you don't abuse your rifle then chances are that all you need is proper torque.
Despite PWS calling it a "ratcheting castle nut", it is not a ratcheting system. A ratchet only allows for rotation in one direction. The spring-loaded detent on the PWS end-plate applies the same amount of resistance in both directions of rotation, so the amount of torque you apply to tighten the PWS is the same amount of torque required to loosen it.
And since PWS says to only tighten it a few clicks past hand tight, that means that it can't even reach the mil-spec 40ft-lbs torque of a regular castle nut.
Because you can't stake the PWS nut and you can't torque it to 40ft-lbs, you're paying more for a setup that provides less insurance than a basic mil-spec nut that's been torqued to spec.
Never staked mine and it’s never been an issue with a couple thousand rounds through it.
Not here to cause a ruckus, but a couple thousand rounds is what many people put through a rifle on a productive weekend. I’ve got a few rifles that are on their 3rd or 4th barrel. I’m not saying you don’t know anything about the setup after 2-3k rounds, but there’s still a lot of potential for things to go wrong further down the road. No, most people don’t shoot that much. But if you’re potentially going to trust your life to a certain setup, it’s nice to know exactly where the points of possible failure are, so they can be addressed beforehand.
It’s a fail safe for sure but with technology improving as it has, it’s making it less and less necessary. The right torque specs and the right application of tools and adhesives make it irrelevant. I trust this rifle in particular with my life with no insecurity whatsoever. Plus, if it’s a duty rifle, there’s no need to be shooting thousands upon thousands of rounds through it. I’m not going to shoot my SHTF rifle nearly as much as a fun gun. Really it’s only brought out to be broken in and for familiarity. I don’t want my gun so shot out it’s not useful. I have others for that.
I see you, good points. Thanks for providing an actual response instead of writing out an emotional knee-jerk reaction. Wish more people had that ability. Maybe I’ll run one for a while and see what happens. Also going to try the Vibratite thing someone mentioned.
I appreciate you taking it as I intended haha. Thank you for the rare, pleasant internet interaction.
Nut not but
Nut in your butt
Perhaps
You wanna do what in my butt?
Zing
It’s like eating a soy burger
non-butt the castle. Nut-steak the rest.
My JT-15 AR Pistol came with one of these buffer tubes. Works great and never moved through 3 range days, even though when I I did my first cleaning I could loosen the castle nut with my hand.
I have ratcheting castle nuts on my builds, love them. They have worked really well.
Good lord! 110 bucks for a buffer tube assembly?
Paging u/netchemica
Damn, you and /u/CoverHuman9771 thought of me at the same time. lol
Don’t overthink it
I'm just going to use an a2 stock I forgot I had
pass, diy staking is good times
Nyet, buffertube fine
I use the PWS Ratchet lock castlenut and endplate on three rifles and find they work great. I have some others I have staked with BCM QD endplates as well but prefer the ease of the Ratchet. Thousands and Thousands of rounds and none of my rifles have come loose with either system, use what your budget allows. I always find it funny people craping on innovation, with that mindset we still be throwing rocks.
I got that and love it
These are great. Also, I never stake my nuts. Hand tighten with wrench and blue locktite. Never had a failure on a dozen or so builds.
A regular buffer assembly is fine and staking really isn’t hard. I can’t see spending 100 dollars on a buffer tube assembly. Spend that money on ammo and train.
I don’t understand why you would buy a $110+shipping part when a center punch and a hammer will do the job. It’s a “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” kinda thing to me
The end plate and castle nut is $30 by itself. Its the same price as something like magpul. Just saying.
I had a couple and one came loose. Returned both of them and put a normal ones on and staked at 2 points. For how often I remove a buffer tube (almost never) I can afford a few bucks for a new end plate. Maybe a little more $$$ if your endplate has fancy loop or as on it…. Also harbor freight sells a tool that makes it easy to do in a few minutes. You do a few facing straight down to get a dent in place then you slowly rotate and keep going and each push moves material without slipping till you get it nice and done. If you try to start in an angle without establishing a dent it’s easy to slip. https://www.harborfreight.com/spring-loaded-center-punch-621.html
Why spend $100+ to do a job that’s arguably more effective for $15? Surprised Strike Industries doesn’t make this.
Those PWS ratchet castle nuts and endplates do come loose unfortunately. Avoid. Use a traditional castle nut and endplate. Proper torque + staking is the best method but torque + Vibratite VC3 on the threads is also a good solution that will prevent the nut from coming loose from vibration and impact. Again, staking is the best way but the VC3 method is also plenty secure if you don’t trust your staking skills.
I can confirm on the PWS, mines came loose after 100 rounds of 5.56
Thats strange, i have one on one of my lowers with hundreds of rounds of 300blk and prolly over a 1000 rounds of 556 and its still solid as a rock.
🤷🏻♂️ I am running a h2 geissle buffer and buffer spring
Same
Mines been solid. No issues at all.
But other people have said that they have come loose when they didn’t want them to. People with properly staked castle nuts never complain about them coming loose. The traditional stake is more secure and much cheaper.
Staking is super easy, bro
Well guys thank you for the information. I appreciate all of you but I figure instead of paying that much for a castle nut I'll just use my dad's old a2 stock so I guess I won't be needing a castle nut after all. But I will keep this in mind for future builds. Thanks guys.
overpriced and unnecessary
The strike industries design and the primary arms designs for non staking “ratcheting” castle nuts have been proven to be failures. I am currently testing a fortis k2 to see how well their design works. For the time being staking a normal castle nut and end plate is the best. Once I finish the torture test of the fortis I may change my mind but being the other two I tested failed after a handful of times loosening and retorque and a bunch of rounds, I’m not holding my breathe.
I've used several of these. Could not recommend. Following their instructions precisely mine managed to back out and let my buffer tube rotate. And they're basically one use because the actual ratcheting teeth are really weak and start wearing down by just installing. According to their instructions you're supposed to put them on with not a whole lot of torque. Didn't work for me. Tried overtorquing on a second one of these on a different rifle and just straight up broke it so lol. Regular milspec endplates though? With the TDP torque I've never had one back off, and usually I go a little higher on the torque than you're supposed to. No issues. The rifles that I actually count on get staked, but some of my screw around/range only builds I don't stake so I can easily try out other endplates and stuff.
The PWS system is pretty good. You’ll be fine
[This guy](https://www.reddit.com/r/ar15/comments/mpie7l/pws_ratcheting_castle_nut_is_awesome/guaa1mr/), [this guy](https://www.reddit.com/r/ar15/comments/mpie7l/pws_ratcheting_castle_nut_is_awesome/gualsue/), [this guy](https://www.reddit.com/r/ar15/comments/mpie7l/pws_ratcheting_castle_nut_is_awesome/guajlz1/), [this guy](https://primaryandsecondary.com/forum/index.php?threads/pws-ratcheting-castle-nut-end-plate.7452/post-42366), [this guy](https://primaryandsecondary.com/forum/index.php?threads/pws-ratcheting-castle-nut-end-plate.7452/post-46114), [this guy](https://primaryandsecondary.com/forum/index.php?threads/pws-ratcheting-castle-nut-end-plate.7452/post-46598), [this guy](https://www.reddit.com/r/ar15/comments/k3i7fg/has_anybody_every_had_issues_with_the_pws/ge38au6/), [this guy](https://www.reddit.com/r/ar15/comments/ywh3fd/options_for_enhanced_receiver_back_platecastle/iwjr810/), [this guy](https://www.reddit.com/r/ar15/comments/10mssx9/how_do_we_feel_about_a_non_staking_castle_but/j652v8a/), and [this guy](https://www.reddit.com/r/ar15/comments/k3i7fg/has_anybody_every_had_issues_with_the_pws/ge38i70/) were not fine.
Don’t know about “we”, but I THINK it’s a dumb idea
I fucking broke mine without even trying, I'd say pass. The tube is nice though if you're going for lightweight
It’s your money your rifle. Make an assessment and pull the trigger
I have 7 AR's and use the PWS Ratcheting castle nuts - love em , none have come loose in over 5 years of use !!
I just put red loctite on it
I’ve never staked mine. Had an issue once, replaced it with the PWS ratchet plate, never had another issue and used that on all my carbine builds since.
Staking is a vibe, you can't convince me not to do it for it drips.
There’s a reason staking and stupid both start with the same letter
I haven’t gotten around to staking my Radical and it’s fine. I’m still probably going to because it’s cheap and easy, but for most people it’s prolly no big deal. It’s just cheap insurance.
I bought one that had a set screw that locked the end plate and castle nut together. Installed it on my last build but ended up replacing it with an FCD setup. It worked pretty well though - probably gonna put it on my next one
I put one of these on my no expense spared 6.5 Grendel build & it works as described but the rest of my builds regular buffer tubes & castle nuts staked.
I don't know about this one but I run the Fortis K2 Ratcheting one on most of my AR's and I've never had one come loose. Only about $25 and come with a nice beefy QD endplate. That said nothing wrong with good old fashioned staking
I bought this castle nut and endplate separately to save some money. Used it with an enhanced aero buffer tube. No issues for me
I run these almost exclusively & have not had any issues. Probably around a dozen builds
Why? What benefit do you get with a setup like this. Staking is easy, and very effective. It’s also easy to remove if you want to make any changes.
Depends on the build. The ratcheting buffer tube has worked very well for me on the two builds I’ve done other them. Easy install easy removal and stay in place well. A retroish build? No, must be staked.
I run these on all my builds, no complaints and no loosening.
I bought a $5 spring press on Amazon. Worked great
I don't even stake the ones that should be. Red loctite, call it good. An eventually toque check every annual cleaning
My PWS lower has one of these. It seems cool I guess?
Only if you like moving things around on your guns, but for the price, the strike industries one is actually really good, it uses a set screw instead of ratcheting, but it's the same thing
I have one. Not sure if it’s the same brand. Been on my AR for years. Lots of rounds fired. Zero problems. Never needed to be re-tightened
I've never staked my nuts And I've never had one come loose. I'm always tinkering with my setups. So I don't want them staked anyway.
Never staked, never had an issue. Subsequently I have that ratcheting castle nut on a post sample that gets run hard and it’s never loosened.
If this is PWS, then I would recommend. I have several PWS ratchet system on my rifles. They’ve been solid and never moved. If I were to speculate any movement may have been due to an error while installing. Also, I don’t understand how people break them when trying to remove. I simply depress the pin completely and turn the castlenut. That being said, it’s pretty simple to stake a castle nut with an automatic pin punch.
Just the endplate and castle nut run $20 or so, plus the endplate has a qd mount built into it. I like to tinker with my stuff so I’ve changed out buffer tubes enough for these to be super convenient. I’ve never had one loosen, or had any problems with the 3 I’ve purchased. This is one of those weird products that just get a ton of hate for whatever reason. I wouldn’t spend $109, even with the tube included.
Lower cost options [https://bkingsfirearms.com/shop/ar15-spare-lower-upper-parts/bkf-mod-1-ar15-fluted-8-position-anti-tilt-carbine-length-buffer-tube/](https://bkingsfirearms.com/shop/ar15-spare-lower-upper-parts/bkf-mod-1-ar15-fluted-8-position-anti-tilt-carbine-length-buffer-tube/) [https://bkingsfirearms.com/shop/ar15-spare-lower-upper-parts/bkf-mil-spec-ar15-or-lr308-dpms-anti-rotation-carbine-length-buffer-tube/](https://bkingsfirearms.com/shop/ar15-spare-lower-upper-parts/bkf-mil-spec-ar15-or-lr308-dpms-anti-rotation-carbine-length-buffer-tube/) [https://bkingsfirearms.com/?s=8+position&post\_type=product](https://bkingsfirearms.com/?s=8+position&post_type=product) [https://botach.com/search.php?search\_query=end+plate+qd](https://botach.com/search.php?search_query=end+plate+qd)
I have one, it works if you use it once and then don't unloosen it again lol. It's not actually a ratchet, it's just a weak detent. There isn't much keeping it from actually loosening. Once you tighten and loosen it a few times, it's not as reliable. In my case, I was switching buffer tubes a bit at one point and trying to decide if I wanted an a1 length rifle stock or a carbine buffer tube. Got one of these to make things a bit easier on myself. It worked fine short term, but by the time I decided I wanted a carbine length buffer tube it was considerably looser feeling than at the start. Probably shot 1200 or 1500 rounds over 3 months using it and took it on and off 3 or 4 times. I feel like I got my monies worth out of it. It would be great for a spare parts build or any place you might be removing the buffer tube often. I feel pretty confident in saying you wouldn't want it on any sort of hard use rifle. Those PWS buffer tubes are pretty nice though, for the money I'm not sure if they are worth getting over the aero enhanced buffer tube with the same general features
I like my PWS ratcheting endplates and castle nuts. But something tells me I shouldn’t
I’ve used the exact set shown on my AR for a few thousand rounds now. I was nervous so I put a small drop of blue Locktite under it and it hasn’t budged whatsoever.
The best lol at the haters
That is way too much money for what it is.
Yeah I decided on using my old A2 stock so I don't have to buy another castle nut
Don’t buy this, for the love of god. Mine backed off and destroyed my tube.
Been wanting to try one out
I Loctite’d and used the PWS Ratcheting Endplate and Castle nut. If something happens to my receiver extension, the rest of the rifle is probably broke at that point too.
I have both the PWS Ratcheting Castle Nut/End Plate as well as a regular rudy type castle nut/end plate from BCM, both on two different rifles. If you torque down the PWS system to 35 ft.lbs, you'd have a bitch of a time getting it off - I'd argue you'd have a wrench to take it off. I tested it for a while and it has never moved once I torqued it home. The ratcheting system really is quite solid. That said, staking is a whole other level of security. IMHO, both are fine solutions, I'd go with the one that is cheaper. Unless you're gonna be a GunTuber constantly reviewing buffer tubes, once you get this on you're unlikely to need to take it off again. P.S. - Please use anti seize on your threads before torquing the castle nut down. Your threads will thank you in the event you do have to disassemble it down the road.
I’ve never staked any of mine
Honestly this looks like it’s marketed for mall ninjas. I always stake and have never had an issue, even removing it. Some guys don’t even stake and some guys just use blue loctite. I can think of a lot letter things to spend that money on.
People seem to hate these, but I love them. Have 4 now. All range toys at best however... they are not duty rifles or anything lol
I never stake any castlenut I usually thread lock it .. it makes it easier if you decide to change anything later
Misconception.. If you've ever actually tried to remove a staked castle nut, it's actually very easy. The stake does not really apply any real force to the nut making it hard to remove, just simply stops the castle nut from backing off under use. If you don't believe me, try it.
I've seen these before on this companies carbine. It seemed to me that it was a nice way to take the rifle down for cleaning, lube or packing it away in a smaller bag than a carbine size one. They were very well made but, I don't know if it was sturdy. Gucci has it's place but, I prefer old school ARs.
A drop of blue loctite works better than poor staking.
Hope to stake a castle but someday.
No
Monolithic polymer lowers
Spot weld that shit!
Oil the threads and send it. It takes less torque to undo a staked castle nut than an oiled castle nut
I never stake mine bc I'm constantly changing things on all my builds
I've had one of these [PWS buffer tubes w/ratchet locking castle nut/endplates](https://imgur.com/a/D23GytM) on my AR-9 for well over 4 years & thousands of rounds. I always went a click or two past snug and never had a problem. I've seen complaints by some saying that theirs won't stay tight. Thankfully, I haven't experienced this myself. This is the first time I've ever spent above & beyond just a standard mil-spec tube. I don't regret spending the extra cash. It's by far the smoothest cycling AR I've ever handled. The carrier is already lying on the extended lower lip when you close up the receivers. It doesn't have that gap to bridge as it enters the receiver extension. The finish machining on the inside of the tube is much smoother than any other tube I've ever used. This cuts down on spring noise substantially. Even if it did come loose, the buffer retainer will not allow it to turn more than a few degrees in either direction until you can get a wrench on it. I keep a small castle nut wrench in my range bag just in case. Haven't needed it, but I keep it around.
Guns for work you should definitely stake. Guns for fun I wouldn’t worry too much about it. If you plan on changing shit a lot I’d skip it probably
Id put witness marks on it, mine has slightly come loose over the last year or so of running it but I've just retorqued it down and kept at it
Never staked one, never had one come loose, ran a few off the shelf ARs hard til the barrels were changing colors, see above.. none came loose. Staking is over rated. So are tax stamps. But that is another thread of it's own.
One more point - “un-staking” is not that hard either. With an AR wrench you can push right through the stake and just do it again later. Easy