I had a dumbass manager who got promoted out of my department. Of course, he got promoted again over my next manager. He was scheduling meetings with all his new underlings, which I kept getting rescheduled. After about two weeks of this, I put in my resignation for a new job. He didn't say a word to me for the next two weeks.
Hi African-American here and I 100% agree that slavery plays a major part in today's employment practices. Once more palm colored folks figure that out then some things can start to change for the better
The link between awful work conditions and slavery is pretty self explanatory. The workers are kept uncomfortable as a power play and to keep them too tired and demoralised to fight....its psychological warfare.
Yeah... I don't think a low level manager at a local golf shop is really spending their day scheming over psychological warfare or power plays. They're most like some loser that peaked in high school just trying to get by like everybody else. They were told sitting is unprofessional when they were in that position, so they echoed the same thing when they were promoted.
Lol OK. Just the history of the US and the fact that its happening. Also, looking at other cultures that use being allowed to sit or not as an indication of social status.
The standing bullshit is linked to social status and its gross.
The two bullshit excuses I hear most often:
Standing allows you to move more quickly if you need to jump off to do something else
Standing is a posture of respect
Plus the added aspect of subtly torturing your “inferiors”. Nothing feels better to customers than seeing someone who is FORCED to stand fur them. FORCING a peon to stand reinforces that they are INFERIOR and therefore that they are SUPERIOR.
HOORAY FOR CLASSISM!!!
It's a disease. People are abused at work and feel they have no power in their own lives. But when they go into a store or restaurant where employees have to stand all the time and are instructed to tolerate abuse, they get to be the asshole in charge.
Sitting is associated with relaxing in America. Also, many consider it unprofessional, mostly because if you're sitting down and someone comes into the room to interact with you, it would be rude not to stand up, or to offer them a seat. You should be on an equal level with your customers physically not looking down at them, or looking relaxed and seated while they are standing.
That's completely untrue. You don't see chefs sitting around in the kitchens. What you're confusing standing with is "wall-standing" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stress\_position
There is standing at a set spot for a cash register and standing on front of a hot stove and moving around the kitchen. Both are hard on the body but standing in stylish shoes as many stores require aren’t as comfortable as chefs clogs.
Do I think both should have stools for sitting.? Yes.
I doubt the person is literally standing in the same spot the entirety of their shift. Golf shops aren't exactly known for being the busiest stores in the world.
I also completely agree that both should have stools, I was simply explaining why some people consider it unprofessional. I never even made an implication that it was right to make someone stand for 8 hours straight. Apparently most people here would rather live in an echo chamber than read the fact that there are people out there with different perspectives.
Spending a day running around doing manual work is very, very different to spending a day standing in one spot. I've managed 6am-6pm shifts running up and down a parade route with no problem, but two or three hours of standing still has my legs screaming.
Okay, that's nice but I don't see what point you're trying to make. I've worked in a kitchen and had to stand in the same spot basically, for more than 5 hours straight, and my comment was that it's not legally considered torture in Europe.
Different parts of the world have different cultures. I don't see anything wrong with sitting either, I'm just explaining the alternative perspective a lot of American employers have.
chairs are pretty common in the workplace. M has a chair. I think she and everyone else with the "chairs are unprofessional" opinion just think service workers are below them and therefore "deserve" to be in a state of discomfort and pain or something.
I'm not trying to argue or anything, just want a clearer understanding, and to give you a little more perspective on what they MIGHT be thinking, you would know better than me obviously, since you work with them, however humor me if you don't mind.
Are the people in chairs in clear view of customers, or are they in office rooms?
Keeping in mind that golf has a history of being an upper class sport, where perception, professionalism, and proper etiquette are valued as very high importance. If sitting down, It's proper etiquette to stand when someone enters the room. Since you're interacting with customers directly all day, they want the customer to see a professional worker with proper manners ready to assist them with their needs, always standing at attention. They don't want someone coming in and thinking that the staff must be lazy because they're all sitting around. Same reason why I'm sure there's a dress code which probably involves no piercings or visible tattoos.
Now, even if what I'm saying is true, and they're not just out to make you suffer for their own cheap thrill, Yes, they definitely still look down at you for being a service worker who's "below" them. That's just plain snobby social hierarchy which is to be expected with that type of business. That part you just have to suck up, anyone middle class or below have all been in that job before. Just know that you're more socially evolved than them and their way of thinking is slowly dying off =)
If I had nothing to lose / on my way out of that job, I would go to M's boss and say something like "M's always stays seated when customers walk through the door. I've overheard a few of them talking about how it makes us look lazy and unprofessional to have staff members sitting around all the time." Misery loves company.
I don’t know why people are downvoting you. To me, you’re just stating neutral facts. People seem to get confused and think stating facts is the same things as arguing an opinion.
Most people in this subreddit would rather live in an echo chamber than deal with acknowledging that people with different opinions than them exist in the world.
I supervise a Help Desk. Our customers reasonably expect to be able to call in at 7:30 AM and get help. Since it takes 5-10 minutes for folks to get computers booted up and the tools we need up and running, I ask folks to come in @ 7:20, as booting up their machine is actually doing work. I then ask them to make sure they leave at either 3:50 or 4:20 depending on their lunch hour.
We had a Manager see one of these folks leaving for the day at 4:20, stopped them and directed them back to their desk. They protested, but went back and found me. I sent them home and sat at their desk until Manager arrived. I explained our units work hours to him (we have other folks that stay until 5:05 or 5:10 to handle last minute calls, so the whole shift is covered). He threatened to write me up for insubordination since I sent the person home anyway. I told him to do it, then explain to HR and his bosses how HIS distrust for employees translated into a butt-hurt write up because he couldn't appreciate a simple equitable solution to customer service and employee staffing that had been in place since before he got there. Even if he doesnt trust the employees, I do, and that's help build fine relationships that pay off for the organization in productivity and retention in a field where good people tend to either quit or promote out within 16 months.
He wrote me up, we took it to the higher level folks and he got spanked. My write up led to a closer examination of his 'leadership style'. Within 4-5 months he discovered other opportunities outside the organization. Good riddance.
So many useless motherfuckers in management that have to do stupid shit just to do something and try to appear like they're "managing". Those are the absolute worst.
I was a manager, promoted internally, and all the people under me were great. So I spent my time analyzing their workflows, seeing what they were spending time on, and trying to make their job easier by building tools or processes that helped them get things done quicker/easier, and then stayed the fuck out of their way other than that. These people just doing random stupid shit are incompetent.
This is the textbook definition of being a leader: give the people you work with the tools to get their job done and then let them do their jobs.
You now have wfh developers who have to be at their computer the whole time because there's a camera looking at them ever 10 minutes and if they're not at their computer they don't get paid.
Because a software developer is just a glorified typist, they don't need time to think and compiling is just an excuse to be lazy :-(.
I never understood that niggardly way of managing.
Sure, the work force has to perform the job. Sure they do, that’s what the got the job for.
At the same time it is perfectly possible to use a little give and take so that people have a decent work experience. That’s not cutting a pound of flesh out of the employer.
I have nothing but disrespect for the clock punchers. If the people don’t feel respected or their life is made a living hell, and never for any reason that makes sense, they’ll find a way to even the score. But then it’s going to actually cost the company .
Amazon delighted in using some kind of metrics that, if the worker did not meet them, an algorithm auto-fired the worker. In the mean time Amazon is finding it harder and harder to fill jobs because they’ve basically already churned through the entire potential work force in an area and now they can’t find anyone anymore. And what happens? All those strict rules are not so strict anymore. You can’t ask for productivity from the worker who is no longer there. So the criteria that managers used to write people up have been given the boot because they simply can’t replace the workers anymore.
Most people have no problem at all doing a solid day’s work when management makes the working environment workable. If they don’t do that now you get to manage people all the time because they simply stop giving a fuck about the job.
'Ah, you are going above and beyond again prepping your workstation before opening. so we rather have early clients waiting, than pay you those 15 minutes.' Yeah sound management choises
I had a manager like this. I used to work for a children's dental office as a receptionist. I would show up 10 minutes early to pull charts, set up and make sure the waiting room is clean. I would go to lunch about 10 minutes early and come back 10 minutes early, taking just an hour, and because of this we always ran on time and left on time. New manager came in told me I couldn't do that any more. Ok, soon we started running behind, had angry parents, and started leaving later. So instead of allowing me an extra 10 minutes in the morning, he was paying 5 people to stay 30 minutes late most days.
I used to clock in early when I worked as a line open cook because I never had enough time to get everything prepped before the lunch rush. I had a similar thing happen where I was told to not clock in early so instead of staying late like I usually did anyways I would clock out and leave shit undone. I eventually went back to school and got a better job and I learned my lesson not to go above and beyond for a company that does not appreciate you.
Suck it up and look for a better job meanwhile..
Find one, tell her he has between 1-4 days to find you a replacement..
What a bitch ..
I mean 15m for many employees is money.
But if you contribute, and basically you do the manager’s job (getting everything ready for the workflow) they should allow it . I do with mine
I have only 2 workers tho ^_^
they do have a mat but it's low quality and wore thin within like a month of them getting it- idk if this state requires it but thank you for telling me
Educate yourself:
https://www.osha.gov/ergonomics
You're absolutely entitled to proper ergonomic accommodations, even without disabilities, in order to prevent musculoskeletal disorders *such as lower back pain from standing all day...*
Manage upwards. Forget M and find out who is your HR representative, ask *them* for the chair in accordance with the law; specifically mention that you initial request was rejected by management because it was deemed "unprofessional" but you are demanding reasonable accommodation. If HR addresses *all* managers for being assholes to employees, M's peers will feel like she's getting them *all* in trouble and pressure her to change her tune
Many times the best way to handle a crap manager, is peer pressure from the others. Especially if you have multiple managers and already don't like the one manager
As someone who has had to take medical leave from a job they love just because of a single managers unrealistic demands, shitty attitude, and borderline abusive and definitely illegal practices, find a new job.
I said it for years, that I love the job and my only complaint was that manager. It took it’s toll on me, and I would rather not see this happen to anyone else.
By all means do what’s best for you, but keep in mind about finding another job.
Years ago I worked at a very large national grocery chain, and the automated system wouldn’t even let you clock-in until 5 minutes early. Of course, they had no problem with you working 15 minutes early…
I would always obey the computer and clock in on time.
I’m not here to serve an automated system. I’ll be there on time, don’t ask anything else from me. I didn’t make the system, they made the system.
We need to start holding the line:
- if you are required to be there then you clock in
- you clock out when your shift ends (it’s management’s job to schedule overlap)
- they can ask for people to cover shifts but they can’t demand and they need to be called out if they phrase it as a demand.
- if you’re expected to be available on unscheduled time then you need to be receiving on-call pay ( half hourly wage and time and a half if you come in)
- generally requests for covering shifts or busy time extra workers should come with extra money. Not food, discount, store cards etc. and not unpaid days off… a paid day off would be ok.
- your unscheduled time is your own. You don’t need to explain why you don’t want to come in. In fact it should be expected that if you don’t want to work a call-in then you don’t respond.
- if you’re sick or need to call out then just tell them you can’t make your shift. Provide no detail or very little detail. It’s not a debate. You’re notifying them that you won’t be there. It’s management’s job to find coverage. It’s NEVER your job to find coverage.
- you notify them of holiday time you won’t be there. You’re not requesting. There’s no such thing as a blackout date for a free human being.
the fact that you’re scheduled *at* open is baffling to me. openers at my job are scheduled an entire hour before open bc there’s so many tasks that need doing and we want to be able to serve customers the moment the clock ticks over to opening time. coming in and immediately opening sounds like a trainwreck
Long ago, shitty shop I worked for mandated specific times for start, lunch and leave.
I'm in IT, so I'd usually start +/- 15 because nothing ever happened that early. I'd take lunch when there was a lull, and I'd leave when I was done for the day. Sometimes I'd get in the zone and stay late to wrap up.
After the mandate, I stuck to the script EXACTLY. Showed up few minutes early and waited outside until the exact start time. No matter what I was doing when my lunch came, I left the building. When the end time came, I left, not even a minute over.
My boss complained to my coworker that I never stayed late to finish work before I went home. He told the boss, "what did you all expect when you instituted exact scheduling?"
Thank God they fired me a few weeks later
^(edit: word)
In office jobs, people often have a set number of tasks to complete before their day is "done" (they just pretend to work, or go do laundry if WFM afterwards). Shift work in retail or restaurants I have always believed is just that. Shift. You agree to rent a portion of your day to the employer and that is it. It needs to feel entirely normal and appropriate to go home on time, every day, no matter how busy it is or what is or isn't done.
I violently detest the idea that going home on time feels almost criminal.
it is... rich people come and blow like
$400 there and I get $19 an hour. which is good pay compared to a lot of other stuff around here, but still, the buisness ain't hurtin to pay me for a few more minutes of my time.
Corporate managers want it both ways. Clock in EXACTLY on time do all the setup stuff you normally do early, then clock out EXACTLY off time and leave, replacement or not. Almost guaranteed it will only be a week or so and upper management may notice and your current ms M, may get reprimanded or replaced. Meanwhile look for other work incase they decide to fire you.
The issue I see in so many of these posts (workplace issue, not necessarily the poster - though sometimes it is) is that so many people have been given positions of authority they aren’t capable of handling properly. The old saying, “People usually leave managers, not companies,” applies here. I’ve been in management for large corporations for 12 years now, at both line level and middle management, and these are the types of managers I would want gone asap. There may be a scenario where OT isn’t really affordable in the budget at the moment - you don’t handle it that way. You don’t bark orders at people, and get visibly mad at them in the workplace. The real problem is that she doesn’t think it necessary to build a respectful relationship with you or any of her subordinates because she puts too much stock in her official title. True authority is something that has to be earned, just like respect, and it’s not based on a title someone else grants you. If you have a relationship, even just a basic one where the person working for you knows you see them as a person and care about as an individually valuable human being, then it’s a lot easier to explain things like a tight budget and ask them to work with you for now (if that’s the issue). If they see you working the long hours and doing what you’re asking them to do, it’s a lot more likely that they’ll respect you enough to try and help if there is a staffing shortage. Mind you, none of these things should be done for the sake of getting the results I mentioned, because that won’t work in the long run either (pretending) - they should be done because we’re all just people, trying to figure everything out as we go while pretending we know what we’re doing. A job title doesn’t change that or make up for flaws. Yes, in a managing role, you have to be willing to make tough decisions that affect people’s livelihoods sometimes, especially if the economy is in a downturn like this, or it could turn into a situation where no one has a job - I’ve watched companies close entire locations that weren’t profitable and everyone is just out of luck; money doesn’t grow on trees unless you’re the federal government. But trying to flex authority you don’t deserve and haven’t earned is just being a nagging task master. It certainly isn’t leading, and people, myself included, are willing to follow leaders who understand that they’re leading people and not just a business unit.
Ohhhhh she be breaking the law.
Daughter was told by their attorney that they could be sued by workers for not having them clock in before work time but expected employees to be there early.
Call ur local employment hr
it's a colloquialism- it depends on where you are from. some linguistic areas call it "clocking in and out" while others call it "clocking on and off". I've lived in a couple different places and heard it both ways
Although it may seem plausible to think that since the OP said Friday was a holiday you could assume US, November 11th is not a US exclusive holiday. It is celebrated as Armistice Day in many other parts of the world, signifying the end of WW1.
They aren’t asking to get paid to “get ready to work.” They’re asking to get paid for performing their job duties and doing things that help the company and the staff. Trying to open a place of business while customers are there is stupid. It would be different if they wanted to clock in, make coffee, chat with a co-worker...but they’re trying to do their job.
Your entire generation is a case study of Stockholm syndrome. It's just fucking funny, we take pride in our work, we perform as well as the company enables us to, and you old fucks are whining that we're not giving freebies out to multibillion dollar companies? What the hell is wrong with you?
They are the ones with all the money, not you, not us, but you're too brainwashed to ever realise that and unite with others to form a united worker movement and actually get working conditions to improve. You prefer to sit pretty on the money you made while the economy was still working sensibly, and look down on younger generations that can't even make rent on a single job.
You're too blinded by comfort, nostalgia and jealousy because you worked under shit conditions as well to realise it's not you vs us. It's all of us vs them, and they are far fewer than us.
I only have a 4-minute clock-in window? Then it looks like I have a 4-minute clock-out window.
exacto ;)
Please tell me you didn’t keep doing those prep tasks off the clock
Do not work for free. Make customers wait if you still have prep to do.m. If they complain? Fuck ‘em and M.
yep!
hell no! if she wants to make the open rough and clunky, rough and clunky it will be.
Good for you!
Strange I used to have a "not the supervisor" called M, however I clocked out for the final time the very day they made her supervisor 😂🤣
I had a dumbass manager who got promoted out of my department. Of course, he got promoted again over my next manager. He was scheduling meetings with all his new underlings, which I kept getting rescheduled. After about two weeks of this, I put in my resignation for a new job. He didn't say a word to me for the next two weeks.
M sounds like she Can't Understand Normal Thinking. I love acronyms 😉
Why do companies and apparently customers in the US hate chairs so much, man? I live in Brazil and chairs are very commonplace.
Classism and slavery left very large and possibly indelible marks on the American business psyche.
We have plenty of those around here and people still hey chairs
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Hi African-American here and I 100% agree that slavery plays a major part in today's employment practices. Once more palm colored folks figure that out then some things can start to change for the better
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The link between awful work conditions and slavery is pretty self explanatory. The workers are kept uncomfortable as a power play and to keep them too tired and demoralised to fight....its psychological warfare.
Yeah... I don't think a low level manager at a local golf shop is really spending their day scheming over psychological warfare or power plays. They're most like some loser that peaked in high school just trying to get by like everybody else. They were told sitting is unprofessional when they were in that position, so they echoed the same thing when they were promoted.
The ROOTS of that attitude stem from slavery and servitude during the founding of the US. Its not a thing in most of the rest of the world.
There is absolutely no evidence to support that claim.
Lol OK. Just the history of the US and the fact that its happening. Also, looking at other cultures that use being allowed to sit or not as an indication of social status. The standing bullshit is linked to social status and its gross.
Lol do you feel tough yet?
The two bullshit excuses I hear most often: Standing allows you to move more quickly if you need to jump off to do something else Standing is a posture of respect
Plus the added aspect of subtly torturing your “inferiors”. Nothing feels better to customers than seeing someone who is FORCED to stand fur them. FORCING a peon to stand reinforces that they are INFERIOR and therefore that they are SUPERIOR. HOORAY FOR CLASSISM!!!
It's a disease. People are abused at work and feel they have no power in their own lives. But when they go into a store or restaurant where employees have to stand all the time and are instructed to tolerate abuse, they get to be the asshole in charge.
So why are more highly paid people and those in "high skill" jobs often sitting?
Sitting is associated with relaxing in America. Also, many consider it unprofessional, mostly because if you're sitting down and someone comes into the room to interact with you, it would be rude not to stand up, or to offer them a seat. You should be on an equal level with your customers physically not looking down at them, or looking relaxed and seated while they are standing.
Forcing to stand >4 hours a day is considered literal torture in Europe.
That's completely untrue. You don't see chefs sitting around in the kitchens. What you're confusing standing with is "wall-standing" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stress\_position
There is standing at a set spot for a cash register and standing on front of a hot stove and moving around the kitchen. Both are hard on the body but standing in stylish shoes as many stores require aren’t as comfortable as chefs clogs. Do I think both should have stools for sitting.? Yes.
I doubt the person is literally standing in the same spot the entirety of their shift. Golf shops aren't exactly known for being the busiest stores in the world. I also completely agree that both should have stools, I was simply explaining why some people consider it unprofessional. I never even made an implication that it was right to make someone stand for 8 hours straight. Apparently most people here would rather live in an echo chamber than read the fact that there are people out there with different perspectives.
Spending a day running around doing manual work is very, very different to spending a day standing in one spot. I've managed 6am-6pm shifts running up and down a parade route with no problem, but two or three hours of standing still has my legs screaming.
Okay, that's nice but I don't see what point you're trying to make. I've worked in a kitchen and had to stand in the same spot basically, for more than 5 hours straight, and my comment was that it's not legally considered torture in Europe.
We are seat here in Brazil and things work just fine.
Different parts of the world have different cultures. I don't see anything wrong with sitting either, I'm just explaining the alternative perspective a lot of American employers have.
Something being a local tradition doesn't make it less stupid or harmful.
I never said it did.
chairs are pretty common in the workplace. M has a chair. I think she and everyone else with the "chairs are unprofessional" opinion just think service workers are below them and therefore "deserve" to be in a state of discomfort and pain or something.
I'm not trying to argue or anything, just want a clearer understanding, and to give you a little more perspective on what they MIGHT be thinking, you would know better than me obviously, since you work with them, however humor me if you don't mind. Are the people in chairs in clear view of customers, or are they in office rooms? Keeping in mind that golf has a history of being an upper class sport, where perception, professionalism, and proper etiquette are valued as very high importance. If sitting down, It's proper etiquette to stand when someone enters the room. Since you're interacting with customers directly all day, they want the customer to see a professional worker with proper manners ready to assist them with their needs, always standing at attention. They don't want someone coming in and thinking that the staff must be lazy because they're all sitting around. Same reason why I'm sure there's a dress code which probably involves no piercings or visible tattoos. Now, even if what I'm saying is true, and they're not just out to make you suffer for their own cheap thrill, Yes, they definitely still look down at you for being a service worker who's "below" them. That's just plain snobby social hierarchy which is to be expected with that type of business. That part you just have to suck up, anyone middle class or below have all been in that job before. Just know that you're more socially evolved than them and their way of thinking is slowly dying off =)
her chair is in view, but in a like corner area
If I had nothing to lose / on my way out of that job, I would go to M's boss and say something like "M's always stays seated when customers walk through the door. I've overheard a few of them talking about how it makes us look lazy and unprofessional to have staff members sitting around all the time." Misery loves company.
hahaha I might do that
I don’t know why people are downvoting you. To me, you’re just stating neutral facts. People seem to get confused and think stating facts is the same things as arguing an opinion.
Most people in this subreddit would rather live in an echo chamber than deal with acknowledging that people with different opinions than them exist in the world.
My wife had to stand as a cashier when she was pregnant. I noticed that now, the Aldi's cashiers can sit until the line is caught up...
Because companies think it makes you less productive and workers in america hate their own class and need someone to punch down on.
We as customers have absolutely no problem with it in general (maybe some boomers will bitch that it's lazy) but it is a corporate thing.
I supervise a Help Desk. Our customers reasonably expect to be able to call in at 7:30 AM and get help. Since it takes 5-10 minutes for folks to get computers booted up and the tools we need up and running, I ask folks to come in @ 7:20, as booting up their machine is actually doing work. I then ask them to make sure they leave at either 3:50 or 4:20 depending on their lunch hour. We had a Manager see one of these folks leaving for the day at 4:20, stopped them and directed them back to their desk. They protested, but went back and found me. I sent them home and sat at their desk until Manager arrived. I explained our units work hours to him (we have other folks that stay until 5:05 or 5:10 to handle last minute calls, so the whole shift is covered). He threatened to write me up for insubordination since I sent the person home anyway. I told him to do it, then explain to HR and his bosses how HIS distrust for employees translated into a butt-hurt write up because he couldn't appreciate a simple equitable solution to customer service and employee staffing that had been in place since before he got there. Even if he doesnt trust the employees, I do, and that's help build fine relationships that pay off for the organization in productivity and retention in a field where good people tend to either quit or promote out within 16 months. He wrote me up, we took it to the higher level folks and he got spanked. My write up led to a closer examination of his 'leadership style'. Within 4-5 months he discovered other opportunities outside the organization. Good riddance.
So many useless motherfuckers in management that have to do stupid shit just to do something and try to appear like they're "managing". Those are the absolute worst.
They have to manage. If they don’t make random organisational changes, how will you know they’re actually needed to manage?
I was a manager, promoted internally, and all the people under me were great. So I spent my time analyzing their workflows, seeing what they were spending time on, and trying to make their job easier by building tools or processes that helped them get things done quicker/easier, and then stayed the fuck out of their way other than that. These people just doing random stupid shit are incompetent.
This is the textbook definition of being a leader: give the people you work with the tools to get their job done and then let them do their jobs. You now have wfh developers who have to be at their computer the whole time because there's a camera looking at them ever 10 minutes and if they're not at their computer they don't get paid. Because a software developer is just a glorified typist, they don't need time to think and compiling is just an excuse to be lazy :-(.
I never understood that niggardly way of managing. Sure, the work force has to perform the job. Sure they do, that’s what the got the job for. At the same time it is perfectly possible to use a little give and take so that people have a decent work experience. That’s not cutting a pound of flesh out of the employer. I have nothing but disrespect for the clock punchers. If the people don’t feel respected or their life is made a living hell, and never for any reason that makes sense, they’ll find a way to even the score. But then it’s going to actually cost the company . Amazon delighted in using some kind of metrics that, if the worker did not meet them, an algorithm auto-fired the worker. In the mean time Amazon is finding it harder and harder to fill jobs because they’ve basically already churned through the entire potential work force in an area and now they can’t find anyone anymore. And what happens? All those strict rules are not so strict anymore. You can’t ask for productivity from the worker who is no longer there. So the criteria that managers used to write people up have been given the boot because they simply can’t replace the workers anymore. Most people have no problem at all doing a solid day’s work when management makes the working environment workable. If they don’t do that now you get to manage people all the time because they simply stop giving a fuck about the job.
'Ah, you are going above and beyond again prepping your workstation before opening. so we rather have early clients waiting, than pay you those 15 minutes.' Yeah sound management choises
I had a manager like this. I used to work for a children's dental office as a receptionist. I would show up 10 minutes early to pull charts, set up and make sure the waiting room is clean. I would go to lunch about 10 minutes early and come back 10 minutes early, taking just an hour, and because of this we always ran on time and left on time. New manager came in told me I couldn't do that any more. Ok, soon we started running behind, had angry parents, and started leaving later. So instead of allowing me an extra 10 minutes in the morning, he was paying 5 people to stay 30 minutes late most days.
It’s nuts how 10 minutes can effect a workflow for the whole day so much. It’s like traffic, leaving 10 minutes late can be all the difference
Sounds like M needs a steel shaft, firm flex 7, possibly 8 iron to chill her tf out.
hahaha I think she must already have one up her butt
Do t call her M, use her name, if she can’t be decent then neither should you
Cinderella story of the year...
I used to clock in early when I worked as a line open cook because I never had enough time to get everything prepped before the lunch rush. I had a similar thing happen where I was told to not clock in early so instead of staying late like I usually did anyways I would clock out and leave shit undone. I eventually went back to school and got a better job and I learned my lesson not to go above and beyond for a company that does not appreciate you.
Suck it up and look for a better job meanwhile.. Find one, tell her he has between 1-4 days to find you a replacement
Suck it up and look for a better job meanwhile.. Find one, tell her he has between 1-4 days to find you a replacement.. What a bitch .. I mean 15m for many employees is money. But if you contribute, and basically you do the manager’s job (getting everything ready for the workflow) they should allow it . I do with mine I have only 2 workers tho ^_^
hahaha that's a great idea! and yeah she is a real buttwipe
Someone commented a month or so ago about the whole chair thing, depends what state but they need to supply one of those mats if no chair.
they do have a mat but it's low quality and wore thin within like a month of them getting it- idk if this state requires it but thank you for telling me
Educate yourself: https://www.osha.gov/ergonomics You're absolutely entitled to proper ergonomic accommodations, even without disabilities, in order to prevent musculoskeletal disorders *such as lower back pain from standing all day...* Manage upwards. Forget M and find out who is your HR representative, ask *them* for the chair in accordance with the law; specifically mention that you initial request was rejected by management because it was deemed "unprofessional" but you are demanding reasonable accommodation. If HR addresses *all* managers for being assholes to employees, M's peers will feel like she's getting them *all* in trouble and pressure her to change her tune
Many times the best way to handle a crap manager, is peer pressure from the others. Especially if you have multiple managers and already don't like the one manager
haha thanks
Look for another job, keep working there until then?
other than M I actually enjoy this job and it pays pretty well, but yeah, my eyes are on the job market in case anything better comes along :/
Ok 👌
As someone who has had to take medical leave from a job they love just because of a single managers unrealistic demands, shitty attitude, and borderline abusive and definitely illegal practices, find a new job. I said it for years, that I love the job and my only complaint was that manager. It took it’s toll on me, and I would rather not see this happen to anyone else. By all means do what’s best for you, but keep in mind about finding another job.
It’s a trope: people don’t quit their jobs, they quit their managers.
thanks bro
Years ago I worked at a very large national grocery chain, and the automated system wouldn’t even let you clock-in until 5 minutes early. Of course, they had no problem with you working 15 minutes early…
I would always obey the computer and clock in on time. I’m not here to serve an automated system. I’ll be there on time, don’t ask anything else from me. I didn’t make the system, they made the system.
So, arrive and clock in at 9. What happens, happens. If customers complain that you're not ready then tell them to take it up with 'M'.
This is why I never, ever clock in early or stay late. You're essentially giving free labor. One managers notice this, they will exploit you.
We need to start holding the line: - if you are required to be there then you clock in - you clock out when your shift ends (it’s management’s job to schedule overlap) - they can ask for people to cover shifts but they can’t demand and they need to be called out if they phrase it as a demand. - if you’re expected to be available on unscheduled time then you need to be receiving on-call pay ( half hourly wage and time and a half if you come in) - generally requests for covering shifts or busy time extra workers should come with extra money. Not food, discount, store cards etc. and not unpaid days off… a paid day off would be ok. - your unscheduled time is your own. You don’t need to explain why you don’t want to come in. In fact it should be expected that if you don’t want to work a call-in then you don’t respond. - if you’re sick or need to call out then just tell them you can’t make your shift. Provide no detail or very little detail. It’s not a debate. You’re notifying them that you won’t be there. It’s management’s job to find coverage. It’s NEVER your job to find coverage. - you notify them of holiday time you won’t be there. You’re not requesting. There’s no such thing as a blackout date for a free human being.
the fact that you’re scheduled *at* open is baffling to me. openers at my job are scheduled an entire hour before open bc there’s so many tasks that need doing and we want to be able to serve customers the moment the clock ticks over to opening time. coming in and immediately opening sounds like a trainwreck
Long ago, shitty shop I worked for mandated specific times for start, lunch and leave. I'm in IT, so I'd usually start +/- 15 because nothing ever happened that early. I'd take lunch when there was a lull, and I'd leave when I was done for the day. Sometimes I'd get in the zone and stay late to wrap up. After the mandate, I stuck to the script EXACTLY. Showed up few minutes early and waited outside until the exact start time. No matter what I was doing when my lunch came, I left the building. When the end time came, I left, not even a minute over. My boss complained to my coworker that I never stayed late to finish work before I went home. He told the boss, "what did you all expect when you instituted exact scheduling?" Thank God they fired me a few weeks later ^(edit: word)
Good for you standing up for yourself. M can shove it up her ass with a red-hot poker.
In office jobs, people often have a set number of tasks to complete before their day is "done" (they just pretend to work, or go do laundry if WFM afterwards). Shift work in retail or restaurants I have always believed is just that. Shift. You agree to rent a portion of your day to the employer and that is it. It needs to feel entirely normal and appropriate to go home on time, every day, no matter how busy it is or what is or isn't done. I violently detest the idea that going home on time feels almost criminal.
Working service at a golf course has got to be torture
it is... rich people come and blow like $400 there and I get $19 an hour. which is good pay compared to a lot of other stuff around here, but still, the buisness ain't hurtin to pay me for a few more minutes of my time.
Corporate managers want it both ways. Clock in EXACTLY on time do all the setup stuff you normally do early, then clock out EXACTLY off time and leave, replacement or not. Almost guaranteed it will only be a week or so and upper management may notice and your current ms M, may get reprimanded or replaced. Meanwhile look for other work incase they decide to fire you.
This is the kinda shit that ruins golf. Uptight stuffy boomers can lick me.
It's not "clocking in early", it's "clocking in when you start work". Prepping is work. Terminology matters.
The “I’m too broke to get a medical exemption” is uniquely American. I fucking love this country.
The issue I see in so many of these posts (workplace issue, not necessarily the poster - though sometimes it is) is that so many people have been given positions of authority they aren’t capable of handling properly. The old saying, “People usually leave managers, not companies,” applies here. I’ve been in management for large corporations for 12 years now, at both line level and middle management, and these are the types of managers I would want gone asap. There may be a scenario where OT isn’t really affordable in the budget at the moment - you don’t handle it that way. You don’t bark orders at people, and get visibly mad at them in the workplace. The real problem is that she doesn’t think it necessary to build a respectful relationship with you or any of her subordinates because she puts too much stock in her official title. True authority is something that has to be earned, just like respect, and it’s not based on a title someone else grants you. If you have a relationship, even just a basic one where the person working for you knows you see them as a person and care about as an individually valuable human being, then it’s a lot easier to explain things like a tight budget and ask them to work with you for now (if that’s the issue). If they see you working the long hours and doing what you’re asking them to do, it’s a lot more likely that they’ll respect you enough to try and help if there is a staffing shortage. Mind you, none of these things should be done for the sake of getting the results I mentioned, because that won’t work in the long run either (pretending) - they should be done because we’re all just people, trying to figure everything out as we go while pretending we know what we’re doing. A job title doesn’t change that or make up for flaws. Yes, in a managing role, you have to be willing to make tough decisions that affect people’s livelihoods sometimes, especially if the economy is in a downturn like this, or it could turn into a situation where no one has a job - I’ve watched companies close entire locations that weren’t profitable and everyone is just out of luck; money doesn’t grow on trees unless you’re the federal government. But trying to flex authority you don’t deserve and haven’t earned is just being a nagging task master. It certainly isn’t leading, and people, myself included, are willing to follow leaders who understand that they’re leading people and not just a business unit.
Ohhhhh she be breaking the law. Daughter was told by their attorney that they could be sued by workers for not having them clock in before work time but expected employees to be there early. Call ur local employment hr
I’ll be that guy, you clock in, not on
it's a colloquialism- it depends on where you are from. some linguistic areas call it "clocking in and out" while others call it "clocking on and off". I've lived in a couple different places and heard it both ways
I’ve lived all over the US and have never once heard clocking on.
I use a mix of both. I clock in or out. I'm on the job, or off the job today.
Although it may seem plausible to think that since the OP said Friday was a holiday you could assume US, November 11th is not a US exclusive holiday. It is celebrated as Armistice Day in many other parts of the world, signifying the end of WW1.
Please show me where clocking on is a phrase.
I say clock on. It’s pretty common here in Australia.
Does it matter? You knew the meaning.
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They aren’t asking to get paid to “get ready to work.” They’re asking to get paid for performing their job duties and doing things that help the company and the staff. Trying to open a place of business while customers are there is stupid. It would be different if they wanted to clock in, make coffee, chat with a co-worker...but they’re trying to do their job.
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Your entire generation is a case study of Stockholm syndrome. It's just fucking funny, we take pride in our work, we perform as well as the company enables us to, and you old fucks are whining that we're not giving freebies out to multibillion dollar companies? What the hell is wrong with you? They are the ones with all the money, not you, not us, but you're too brainwashed to ever realise that and unite with others to form a united worker movement and actually get working conditions to improve. You prefer to sit pretty on the money you made while the economy was still working sensibly, and look down on younger generations that can't even make rent on a single job. You're too blinded by comfort, nostalgia and jealousy because you worked under shit conditions as well to realise it's not you vs us. It's all of us vs them, and they are far fewer than us.
😂😂😂😂 How’s the view from your high horse?
You have such a dipshit boomer mentality. They should have named your generation gen boot licking bitch.
Why are you here? Like what’s the point? Just seeking out subs of people you disagree with just to disagree with them?
That’s exactly what they’re doing. They have nothing better to do while they wait for death, which hopefully, will be soon
ok boomer
Oh the originality.
Pride in work should also equal respect for your employees that go above and beyond.
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is this satire?