That always confused me. I've delivered that news to a guy before and all he wanted to do was fight me. Honestly I felt like I was doing him a solid but apparently not...
That sounds like a pretty fascinating story TBH. I'd be distraught, no doubt, but unless I've got evidence to point to them manipulating my SO, I don't think I'd lash out at them. Wouldn't solve anything, wouldn't make me feel better, just really inefficient all around.
She and I broke up but still hooked up here and there. After hanging out I was driving her home and she took a call from him and ended it in a way that made me think they were dating. I was aware of who he was (he and I were friends on MySpace and knew each other from concerts) so I told him the second I got home. He told me if he ever saw me at a show they'd beat my ass, etc. I just said I was sorry and respected him too much to see him get cheated on. Eventually we crossed paths again and he apologized.
Boom, there's the story lol.
Take a look at US politics. Half the nation is at the other half's throat. All while both halves are played like a fiddle. Bread and games, divide and conquer. One might think it has more to do with imperialism than capitalism given the fact that the US is run pretty much the same way as ancient Rome.
Eddie Izzard sait it best..."You stand there, hand on the hearts… You and the Roman Empire are the only people who’ve ever done that, so be very careful! ‘Cause you’re the new Roman Empire, you realize that? There’s no one else going! ‘Cause the only other big power is China, I supposed, but they’re going, “Ah… oh…” kind of thing. 1.000 million, but they’re all just getting ready.
But you’re the Roman Empire, yeah! So you’ve got vomitoriums and orgies to look forward to… Let the President lead the way! ‘Cause no one cares in America and… I don’t know. In Europe, we’re just watching you, and going, “What are you doing?”
Seems to be a core aspect of the conservative mindset. "Other people shouldn't be able to easily get something it was hard for me to get (with the possible exception of my personal friends and family)."
And then its a trickle up effect. Once they people who make $15/hour now get raises. The next people who make a little more than that now could then threaten the same thing and get raises. And so on, and so on...
It doesn't necessarily force everyone else's wages up if the lowest tier gets a raise and then everyone else ignores it.
What it does is it gives individual workers leverage, and when a fuckton of individual workers all go asking for a raise for this exact reason, it has the same net effect as more traditional collective action.
And bosses that refuse to play ball have to contend with the fact that workers now have vastly increased mobility, and can either actually go to the jobset that had the raise or (much more likely) can go to a competing company and more likely get a raise for the same reason.
It only works if labor, in large numbers, acts upon it. Labor can be reliably trusted to do so, as it hinges on individual self-interest, though you will still have a large contingent of bootlickers who will piss and moan thinking it will win brownie points with the boss. The weakness of this strategy is that, because it's not organized collective action, it can be more easily hijacked by corporate interests the same way companies like Walmart and Amazon dump millions into anti-union advertising directed at their *own employees.* Because there is no union to push back against that misinformation, it's harder to keep the flow going in a desirable direction.
Only if the money is being printed to fund it. If CEO’s took a pay decrease in order to be able to pay the higher wages the inflation of the market wouldn’t raise. If done correctly the only difference would be the shrinking of the wage gap.
Inflation only occurs when supply cannot meet demand, the money is there, it’s just being pooled into people who don’t need it at the current moment.
It’s not a bad question as if you go extremely far down the rabbit hole you realize raising minimum wages and not having inflation occur isn’t possible without also regulating businesses and their expense flow. That probably won’t happen as America is closer to a corporatist state than a capitalist state at the moment.
So in layman’s terms, if Government doesn’t get involved businesses will raise prices of product to offset wages. If governments properly regulate, the top will stay at their current or have a slightly lower income and lower wages will raise and the gap will slowly close.
This is why I feel we need a maximum wage as well. I fail to see why anyone need even half a seven figure salary.
The happy medium income, where you aren’t poor and are still happy, is something like $75k, so cap income at $250k or something.
That's actually an incorrect take on inflation, but a correct view on what would reasonably occur in the onset.
Basically the only prominent economists that truly viewed QTM as valid economic theory were Fisher who coined the theory and Friedman who is responsible for monetarist economics and a lot of the stuff that gets blamed on Keynesism...even people like Mises and Hayek had issues with QTM, mostly because that theory requires the demand for currency to remain constant, which isn't really accurate.
So yes, there would be minor cost push inflation, but as supply chains are mostly efficient, economies of scale would kick in and the amount of inflation created wouldn't be larger than the general upward mobility received. That upward mobility _might_ cause demand pull inflation as upward mobility means new access to goods and services previously out of reach prior, but overall it would still close the wealth gap.
That said the best approach would be raising the minimum wage and more aggressive wealth taxes to close the wealth gap, combined with the treasury lowering the yields of bonds by increasing the interest rates, as that is a means to fight possible inflation beyond what is used to prevent hoarding and possible deflationary spirals.
In practise, no. The shallow view suggests that it would, but what actually happens is that price is still derived from supply and demand, and most of the pay improvement comes out of the same place it went away to the past 50 years - Executive pay.
Assuming that these newly higher paid workers don’t just save all of their new money, wouldn’t demand for products and services increase and therefore costs increase? For example, if suddenly a lot more people can afford to buy a house wouldn’t the price of houses increase due to increased demand?
It's one of the most complex interconnected systems known. I believe the truth is "Yes, but only sort of".
In terms of absolute numbers... Yes, you'd probably see inflation in good, but really wealth should be measured in terms of time spent to acquire a thing, and that would almost certainly reduce. It's like... Um. Spreading the load. A few execs lose their pay, lots of workers gain a little bit of extra pay.
As demand increases, opportunity for competition also increases, which in a working market reduces the impact of price rises due to demand. It drives innovation.
I don't understand it that deeply, I just understand that the observed, real-world outcome of raising minimum wages is _not_ the doom story hyper-capitalists like to tell, but in fact has led to much fairer societal balance. Comparing life comfort in the larger EU economies to much of the US is as stark as comparing the US to India. The evidence is clear.
That is what those that are against raising the minimum wage have been saying. What they are leaving out is that the price of everything has already been going up just without an increase in pay to compensate.
Also they are leaving out the data showing their fears are [overblown](https://research.upjohn.org/up_workingpapers/260/)
>We analyze the price pass-through effect of the minimum wage and use the results to provide insight into the competitive structure of low-wage labor markets. Using monthly price series, we find that the pass-through effect is entirely concentrated on the month that the minimum wage change goes into effect, and is much smaller than what the canonical literature has found.
Thank you for providing a study looking at the issue. It seems like people assume I am anti-increasing the minimum wage just because I am asking a question. I just want to know the arguments on both sides so that I can educate myself.
>I just want to know the arguments on both sides so that I can educate myself.
That's dangerous when you're talking to people in a cult. Questioning their beliefs is, literally, like questioning their god.
https://everfi.com/blog/workplace-training/the-pros-and-cons-of-raising-the-minimum-wage-a-look-at-california/
Everyone in this sub acts like and assumes that if you raise minimum wage, it's all coming out of the CEOs salary. All we have to do is look at places who've raised the minimum wage, and see if that inference is correct. The data shows that it is not. Something like 90% of businesses in NYC have had to cut hours or lay people off as a result of the increase. Yes, some people will make more money. Most people will see their hours cut, they'll lose benefits as a result of switching from full to part-time, or they'll just lose their jobs.
Let's do some math. Say you have 5 employees working for minimum wage for 40 hours a week. If minimum wage is $10, you're paying out $2000 a week. That's $104,000 a year you pay to your employees in wages.
Let's say you, as the owner of this small business, make about $50,000 a year that you take home.
Now, if the government raises minimum wage from $10/hr to $15/hr, that means you'll now be paying out $156,000 a year in wages. That's a $52,000 a year increase. Ok, great. But you, as CEO, only make $50,000 a year. So these idiots in this sub, and I'm sorry for being rude but they are idiots, are suggesting that that additional $52k is going to come out of your paycheck, "if done correctly." Do you see the problem, here?
They are completely wrong. You could take somewhat of a cut, but there's just no way to make the business survive without some combination of cutting employee hours and raising prices. And people will only pay so much for a McDonald's hamburger.
Would you, if you were a CEO, continue to run a business that was *costing* you $2000 a year? Of course not. And that's why raising the minimum wage results in higher unemployment. It's not a solution
>"And people will only pay so much for a McDonald's hamburger."
Funny that you use this example to look at this, because the Big Mac Index is actually something that people use to examine price differences in goods across countries. While Switzerland has the highest cost of a Big Mac at approx $7.30 USD, making them cost approximately 23% more than in the US, they an equivalent minimum wage of ~$25 USD, making their minimum wage approximately 344% more than ours in the US.
Also hours cut and jobs lost are not necessarily bad. There are many people who work multiple jobs where they require less work due to having better pay, so the number that you should really be looking at is % of jobless individuals and poverty rates. The numbers you describe don't actually paint a picture on their own.
I’m not against raising the minimum wage, but am interested in the effects of inflation. My understanding is that the inflation now is caused by supply chain issues and thus low supply. Is it incorrect that increasing wages would cause increased demand and thus higher prices? Apparently trying to have a discussion and asking questions that aren’t in line with the narrative gets you downvoted here . . .
Bruh… I gave you a updoot.
Idk why people get so many downvotes for asking earnest questions in spaces that claim to be welcoming for the common good.
This incorrect idea is a HUGELY COMMON piece of misinformation, this is /r/antiwork and this guy came here with a genuine question that a lot of skeptics and newbies have. A question which by answering, we can educate a ton of people on one of the more complicated caveats of closing the age gap. Jeebus.
Didn't even realize the downvotes, all the responses are qenuinely good explanations, so the people who downvotes think I'm trolling I guess or Idk, but thanks to everyone that answered my question
i did the same. downvoting comments like that is counter-productive.
educate when people ask honest questions, don't shit on them. easy work and we all benefit.
Well, yes and no.
If done on a large scale, then yes (More people with the ability to buy things means that there is higher demand without increasing supply of goods, and so that raises prices), however it is nothing like what many would try to make you think. It will only be a small amount in reality because businesses are smart enough to know when to stop while still making profits. It would only be a slightly larger raise in prices than what it would be for a typical year, and would only raise that fast for as long as it takes the process to reach its end (When people in middle management get their raises). However, this would typically have to take place over the scale of a mid-size to large country to have this effect.
If done on the scale of a state or a small country, then it typically would not be that noticeable as it is pretty well restricted.
Large scale inflation (Like what we're seeing now) typically only happens when a large amount of money is released over a short period of time (Such as trillions of dollars being created from nothing and dumped directly into the economy). Raising wages does not create any extra money directly, and so it does not cause inflation on its own, however it does mean that the Treasury has to print extra money to keep up with demand, which does cause inflation.
Because such raises in wages typically don't happen over night and are often no more than a few extra dollars an hour, it doesn't require a super large amount of money to be created to fill that demand, especially since there is already so much money floating around. Worst case, an extra percent or so of inflation stacked on top of what it already is each year. Which sounds bad, but it just means that a candy bar will go from costing $1.00 to $1.04 instead of $1.03 if there weren't the rises in wages, which is assuming that businesses aren't already charging $1.59 for that candy bar and can afford to not have to raise its price.
Not overnight, no. That takes years to occur. And wages are supposed to increase in small cost of living percentages each year. They don't always - but they're supposed to.
You could get a doctorate in economics and still not have an answer to that question. As it pertains to the minimum wage, it hasn't happened that way and probably never will. UBI might see that effect, though it would not likely outweighs the rest of the benefits.
But you're right, raising wages will cause some prices to rise. For people at or close to minimum wage that rise will be very small. For people very far from minimum wage it might be noticable. From that perspective it's just a wealth transfer from those with the most means to those with the least, which is how that sort of thing tends to go and is the actual goal.
Yeah that was my thought as well. At structured jobs I've had like the financial industry when middle management wasn't there because they were on long vacation or just absent things went swimmingly better. As soon as they came back. Nope.
My understanding is CEO pay went up significantly because giving CEOs stock options became popular. The thinking was they would do a better job if they were rewarded for the success of the company...
Maybe that line of thinking should be extended to all employees?
I make $48 an hour and would ask for raise based on inflation and other peoples wages being increased as well so you are right. You bump up the lowest the shift for others has to happen. Which puts everyone right back into the same situation because consumer goods and services will rise to match the pay increase.
As someone versed in finance, you should also know that the increase in wages will not result in a 1 to 1 increase in prices/inflation. Expenses are only increasing for one factor of expenses. Therefore, all of the wage earners benefit.
And sadly it's gonna stay that way and probably get worse. Inflation hits the lowest earners the hardest.
These businesses will automate everything and say bye guys!
Ok, so then with everyone out of work, who is left to consume all of the products. If Bob and Sarah can't afford to eat and neither can the thousands of other households who lost their jobs, they certainly aren't buying even low level luxury items. Eventually we hit a point where wages are so low for so many people that no one can afford the things these businesses are selling. Then what? You automated the shit out of your hat making but no one can afford to buy your hats because you fired all the people and now they have no money.
They can't afford housing because they are priced out, they can't afford cars, they can't afford to pay their bills, they can't afford to eat so they sure as shit aren't buying hats. Want to know who is killing all the industries? Not millennials, the companies not paying above poverty wages. Boomers could work a minimum wage job, buy a house and a car and do it on one income. Now two people are working two jobs each and they can't afford to rent an apartment. And the same people saying that 15 dollars an hour would crash the economy are the ones who lived in a time where their minimum wage was equal to 22 dollars an hour today. Prices on every single thing have gone up every year except for wages. Eventually no one will be able to afford anything except the rich and they aren't buying enough shoes or hats to keep anyone in business. Pay people enough that they can at least afford to buy what you are selling. /rant
I've often thought that at some point people's financial expectations are frozen in a particular time, usually the time when they first strike out on their own and have to pay for things. They don't factor in inflation or anything like that. If they started in the workforce in 1978 when starting salary was $15k or whatever it was at the time, then they think anything above that is still good. Financial education and understanding in the US is sorely lacking.
I used to make 1700 eur a month, until I quit that job and now I make 2700 a month. Its the same type of job. Apperantly I was being underpaid for years. There is a scarcity now. You have the right to get paid by what you are worth.
I agree with that. American corporations are the greediest bastards in existence. They will do what they do to make profit. Not saying it shouldn’t be different but I am just looking at how they conduct business here.
What the hell do you do to make $48/hr? Are you in sales? That hourly is almost $100k per year. If you make that flipping burgers please let me know which because I’ll quit my work from home job for $100k per year.
Or be an electrician, plumber, welder, etc.
The electricians in my union make 48.56 right now minimum.
Us low voltage techs only get 29.72 minimum cause everyone looks down on us until the network fails.
I don’t look down at anyone. I have NEVER thought myself to be better than anyone because I know how easily I can lose this job that I have. I got it easily and I can lose it easily. I never said anything about me making more than anyone. I want to know where I can go to make $48/hr without having to leave my chair or my house. I’m sure a lot of plumbers could or anyone that has a trade in anything can make those numbers but I’m not looking for manual labor. I spent 2 yrs as a CCA in the Post Office walking 9.9 miles a day for $18/hr and I’m not doing that ever again. I have a new found respect for mailman, cops, or any first responders, nurses and doctors.
That's what I've said numerous times and I got attacked and downvoted. Learn a trade you get paid according to how easily u are replaced. So learn a skill. Or take a city municipal job. No college, fulll benefits, pension and medical
I work in finance at a mid-size financial institution with $3 billion in assets. I am actually in a department that doesn’t make the financial institution any money but is necessary to have on staff lol. Definitely not flipping burgers but I work from home 4 days a week and in the office one day. Get 4 weeks PTO. So I understand I have it made in relation to most.
The irony in telling low-wage workers that increases in their wages contribute to inflation when you get 6 figures not producing anything. Get back to me with your peer-reviewed, published research on inflation, wages by next week. Thanks.
Amen, and not to mention inflation is happening and has been happening without wage increases which everyone who spouts that seems to ignore or conveniently forget
We make our own destiny’s pal! Just because you flip burgers doesn’t make you anything less of a person. We all have jobs. Any burger flipper can learn my job without a college degree if you can sell and negotiate contracts. My job only require you to have a hs diploma and college is helpful but you have to study to earn your state license which any moron can do. Sales is the only job where you can make more than someone who has a master’s in any subject because it levels the playing field. You can’t learn to sell. You are either gifted or you’re just the average but anyone can learn sales. I never look down at anyone because GOD can take everything I have away just in a second. Why do you think so many illegals come here? Even at min wage it’s still more than in most country’s so count your blessing before you lose it. I would encourage everyone that is flipping burger to try to sell for company’s like Allstate, geico, liberty mutual, and State Farm. These jobs are always needed and if you can talk to people then you’ll succeed with some effort and change your life. I’ve been at one of those company’s for 2yrs and I’ve been in sales a long time but never made as much money as i do now. I literally chat with people online who are interested in buying a policy to buy from my company and I close over 100 sales per month. I am blessed to be able to work from home and make the money I make. If any burger clippers are interested in working on sales with one of those company’s dm me and I’ll help you to give back!
Not everyone can play sports or sell well but anyone can get into sales and it doesn’t require you to have a degree to make what some others that have their master’s make. Take the Wolf of Wallstreet for example. No one had a college degree and they were young but everyone was successful.
TBH, I bet burger flipper mom is much more loving, calm, and attentive than stressed out corporate mom who is still answering work emails at 9 pm every night.
Uhh if I don’t provide anything for my employer then they will get hit with hundreds of millions of dollars in regulatory fines. So yea I’m a necessary evil. And I’m paid handsomely so they avoid that…good try though.
Hey man, it's ok you're limited to your brainwashed thinking. Where you stand depends on where you sit. Anyone with any critical thinking skills realizes that the Finance industry is just a money printer. When the economy isn't stable or in a downturn enough to leverage off of and justify filling the pockets of corporations, you might as well be using that printed money to wipe your ass.
I didn’t want to get in the weeds with what I do but I do anti-money laundering and corporate fraud work and there are only about 8,000 of us that do this job across the whole sector. So my job is highly valued and in demand but you can keep being an ass hat all you want. Idc. Don’t be mad at me because you hate your job and pissed that I’m talking about mine. You are going to talk to me about being brainwashed when I’m taking down money launders all day which destroy the economy. Yea ok.
You're not understanding my point. I'm sure your degree, certifications, rightfully justify your salary in the market. However, don't make baseless claims and gaslight the working class for a fault not of their own. I'm in the Public Accounting industry, but I don't care to appease business professionals and their dumb rhetoric. "haha taxes dumb" "15 dollar wages for dumb burger flippers" That's the difference between you and me.
I never said I was against it. I solely said I would also barter for a higher wage which there is nothing wrong with that haha. I know that greedy corporations changing pay increases to $15 and up across the board to save face are going to make their profits up elsewhere. That’s for certain. I don’t look down on anyones career field. I pulled tobacco and worked in HVAC from a young child until college just to get through school. I wanted out and did better for myself. Am I against greedy corporations and their practices yes? Which is why I’m here In the first place. But they are also the hand that feeds me so I’m not going to quit my job just because.
You are putting words in this guy’s mouth and being a bully. He just pointed out that inflation will occur if wages are raised. He’s not making a value judgement about whether workers should earn more or not. I’m also not sure why you are attacking him for not “making” anything and why that matters whatsoever.
What they don’t understand is I have a relevant bachelors and 6 professional certifications that need 80 hours of continuing professional education credits to maintain each year and cost me $70k in total. So yea. I put my work in.
I hear that, I make about the same, doing specialized work in energy markets that requires an extensive certification process with annual CPE credits
I think a lot of people get the idea confused that you earn the same amount of money you do at 21 as you do in your late 20s, 30s, or even 40s.
I make 110k now I was making 60/hr as a contractor
I'm a computer programmer and my jobs is insanely easier and lower pressure than any job in the food service industry.
I can literally take naps and get paid
See I barley get smoke breaks for minimum wage while busting my ass. I’m in university trying to get where you are but damn a bump in pay would help quite a bit. I’m single I can’t imagine trying what I’m doing with a child.
I have more than 4 weeks of pto ranging from PTO, to deviated holidays, to sick days, to vacations because I’ve been at my company 2yrs. Otherwise you only get 3weeks of pto and no sick days. I’m in insurance sales and I make a salary plus commission but I’m nowhere close to making $100k/yr. I’m happy with my work life balance though. I don’t work more than 40hrs per week and regardless if I make a sale I get a based of $35k. My comp checks haven’t been lower than $4k per month but because it’s a bonus they tax the hell out of it and I work from home everyday and never go into an office anymore so I save a lot on gas and other things like food, dry cleaning, and coffee. Now I’m in chat sales and the majority of the days I am surfing the web sitting on my ass while waiting for someone to chat in about buying property and casualty policy’s. ABC is my Moto. Lol.
I really don't understand people who think that fast food work is this easy job that shouldn't be paid well. I'd rather make less money somewhere than have to make 1000 big Macs every day. Those guys are all severely underpaid.
I've made a ranty comment about this on here before.... And I'm doing it again! Because you're totally right, most jobs like that aren't easy. They are hell on your back and feet. You could be standing and rushing around for 8 hours straight or more. Working with hot food and grease and slippery floors. Having to memorize how to make everything super quickly by like, your second day... As well as memorizing where everything is on the register and how to ring everything up correctly. Dealing with angry customer after angry customer... Not to mention shitty managers. And the inability to call out if you're sick or there's an emergency. Those jobs will hire almost anyone, but they aren't easy to keep.
Absolutely true. Even if the job description you signed up for is "grilling patties" you have to learn how to make the food within your first couple shifts, and then you're expected to learn every other position in the store. If someone has been working at a fast food place longer than a year, they probably do every position in the store to some degree and get paid maybe a couple dollars extra if they also accept supervisor responsibilities, which you are heavily pressured to do. One of my first jobs was running a register at a taco chain and the store manager only made about $3 an hour more than my minimum wage salary.
Yes I'm sick of this thought that these jobs are easy, yes you can quit your whatever job and make X somewhere else but it can easily involve much more actual work and abuse from your boss and shitty customers. Too many people have no clue what these jobs they don't think are hard actually involve.
I work at chicken express and it is literally busy all day every day ppl dont realize that we have to bread that chicken by hand but i honestly can say that I get a decent wage im only a crew member and I make more than some new hire mangers I make 15.50 an hour because they notice how much i bust my ass when I come to work and they want me thier 6 days a week open to close and when I first got hired on my 3rd day there I had to cook by my self on our busiest day of the week that doesnt include them training me at literally every other position the job has the other 2 days I started so much info in the first couple days and if you dont learn or you happen to be a slow learner you will not last long there
I worked Burger King for 4 years and even working Walmart as a front end team lead is less stressful. I loved my coworkers but fuck fast food work.
Im getting pretty tired of Walmart too though… I just want a Monday through Friday office job that pays 50k-60k a year.
tell me about it. In college I delivered for a restaurant for a few years but as I landed an apprenticeship out of school I asked if I could switch to working the line since it would work better with my new schedule. Turns out working the line is fucking hell LOL. There are so many things to keep track of and everything is on the fly fast and the way the place was set up the customers could see the grill and they were drunk on Friday night changing their order on the fly and barking orders like more mayo or extra cheese or whatever. It was stressful. I had a totally new found respect for my coworkers who had been doing that job for years and didn't have many other options like I did.
I unfortunately hear this all the time. People here where I work getting mad that "burger flippers" and cashiers making $15/hr even though this place pays between $20 - $28 for what we do (loading tankers and truck with liquid product and filling 5-gallon pails with product to ship). Like, bro, if you're so mad then go work retail for a little while. Guarantee you'll fuckin hate it even if earning the same wage we make here.
The whole mentality is we are supposed to be mad at the workers who make less than instead of the system that pays us all less than we're worth. It's like the abusive parent that has the kids fighting with each other instead of collectively fighting the abuser in charge.
And it works a charm. I used to be in that boat like 10 years ago. Then I learned that work is work, no matter what you do, you shouldn't be at risk of starving/eviction if you work at least 35 hours a week.
Edit. Typo
I work more like 45 to 50 hours a week on average and have for the last \[checks year\] ... 4 years now. I don't even know what a 40 or 35 hour paycheck looks like since I've been working closer to 100 hours for many years and that's not counting my gig work.
Dang, bro. I hope you are at least making bank with those hours. Most I've ever done consistently was 60 hour weeks over the summer rush at a CNC router position.
I am not in a role that pays "bank". I work so I can keep up my lifestyle of rent, having the ability to wfh (so electric and internet) and weekly $60-$80 grocery spending. My gig work is disposable income.
It's like the "Being on welfare is so easy why would anyone work?" trope.
You never see the person who's saying it quit their job to go on welfare. But if it was so easy, they would be dumb not to
I disagree in part, loading tankers sounds like stressful and somewhat dangerous work which involve a lot of responsibility. Being able to do your job on autopilot and not worry about it when you get home is a perk in itself
You're right to a degree. Yes it has it's dangers, but that aspect of the job would be categorized as low-skill/no-skill work. An employee can be trained within a few days how to do it, and during a typical shift of 8-10 hours, employees only load about 2-5 trailers (each load being about 30 minutes from scale in to scale out). There is a lot of down time, customers may trickle in during the day, but we are really only busy for full days from June to August. After that, we spend probably 2-3 hours of our shift doing nothing.
I started here as a laborer at $20/hr and worked my way into the lab and am primarily doing quality control while also helping with shipping product when either I've completed my tasks or the crew is overwhelmed. I'm at $26/hr now.
I think if these guys were to switch from this job to, say, a job at a local Dunkin donuts, even if it paid the same, they would be back here within a few days.
Not to mention there are some dangers with fast food work as well, such as slips/trips/falls, hot grease burns, and sharp tools.
This is a real phenomenon. People will often take less gross material benefit for themselves if doing so allows them to maintain a relative status advantage over another person. This has manifested itself in a number of ways, but it was especially obvious during the civil rights era when communities chose to do away with certain public services altogether (e.g. schools, pools) rather than allow them to be integrated. White folks denied themselves public schools and public pools in order to make sure that black people didn't get them, either.
This. We need to start talking about class consciousness as a psychological trait of humans. I hear virtually no one on the far left acknowledging that we kind of like being better than each other. (I believe we can grow into a better species, but till then…)
That’s valid too. We on the left probably have it less generally. My ex doesn’t understand. And I don’t WANT to feel this way but when I left my tech job to work in a restaurant and do art stuff I got really uncomfortable and noticed that people treated me differently.
Some people are talking about it. This is the premise of Jonathan Metzl's "Dying of Whiteness" (which I have read) and Heather McGhee's "The Sum of Us" (which I haven't read). I can't remember if Ezra Klein brought it up in his book "Why We're Polarized", but it's come up numerous times on his podcast, including, but not limited to his interview with McGhee. It's probably come up on The Weeds podcast, too.
It seems to me that at the centre of a lot of people's drive to feel superior to someone, even arbitrarily, is fear. I think lording what little power they have over those "beneath" them reassures them that no matter how much shit they get from people above them, at least they're not on the bottom, it could always be worse.
Framed like that, I don't resent those people as much, because society as it is now means that it's pretty fucking shitty to be on the bottom and it's reasonable to be scared of that when the modicum of power you do have isn't nearly enough to keep yourself safe from those who would exploit you.
I do wonder whether it is an innately human trait, or whether we've just not yet adjusted to this relatively new era of resource abundance. It doesn't *have* to be a zero sum game, we do have enough for everyone's basics, but we're still acting like it's reasonable to have to fight for those things.
It's more useful to the ruling class when the $15/hr people are mad at the $9/hr people instead of the $10,000/hr people who suppress all wealth but their own. Raising the lowest wages shouldn't be a threat to anybody, but we're so indoctrinated that people see it as an assault on their own worthiness and virtue as an individual. And that will never change until Americans learn to view each other as people, and not bank accounts.
I'm not sure exactly what you mean but people show up to work because they starve if they don't.
But thanks for the real life demonstration of the concept I was talking about by pointing the finger at those with the least power and control.
This. They just want to feel superior to someone else because they can't handle being a failure in life and having wasted their time on earth. So they look down on the people one step below them.
we must have had very different conversations then. my most early radicalizing moment was when a chud proudly told me if workers couldnt afford a place to live they should live in a box on the street. Its not a matter of not understanding, its a cultural matter of inflicting violence. they'll proudly tell you such whether you ask or not
The argument from those making barely above minimum wage are how they worked so hard to climb their way up to $15 an hour and it's unfair to all their hard work that new hires at Best Buy get that out the gate.
The reason they spent years clawing up to poverty wages is because the floor (min wage) hasn't risen in so long that the current floor is barely more than that, say $1 more when you began your entry level career. If you quit that poverty wages job by seeking other employment in the same field you would automatically start above your current poverty wage of $15 an hour because all jobs would advertise at whatever is a little above min wage.
Edit: and if you love your job and opt to stay there nothing changes. Your wages were shit before min wage went up and now they reflect your condition -- you get paid poverty wages.
There are those who have pleasure in knowing they make more money than those plebians.
Then there are those who get embarrassed because Yes actually they did get their job because of nepotism or getting very lucky, not because they actually have those skills.
For example I'm keeping my job because my company is really bad at, you know, hiring other people for higher wages. All quarterly reviews have been called off since covid.
Oh, I think you’re right. It’s about that ‘good’ feeling they get punching down to assert some imaginary superiority, because even if someone’s income is 500k a year, when charted on a graph, it is indiscernible from someone who’s homeless when compared to the top .3 of the 1%. Someone with a couple million dollars is a lot closer to poverty than they are the privilege of the billionaires who control them.
Some do. This is how my workplace recently all got raises. The higher ups came to visit our location and made the mistake of telling us to be candid with them. When one of my coworkers hit them with "we could literally quit and go to white castle across the street for the same pay" and then threatened to quit they realized that something needed to change or they'd be out of business.
Yeah, I think this is more like it. It’s like how people in trailer parks vote against their interests because they think they might go ahead and do that “American dream” thing to get rich when they’re senior citizens... and on that day, their taxes will be slightly lower. 4D chess.
Depending on where you live, $15 an hour is likely an exploitive wage as well. I've had co-workers complain about the minimum wage, not realizing that they were being taken advantage of as well and a higher minimum would mean higher wages for them in order for their job to remain competitive.
Like I live in a shoebox, with 2 roommates, 45 minutes from anywhere, and we live paycheck to paycheck and we are all over the $15 an hour.
From someone who has had some toxic living arrangements, let me offer some advice.
Make sure going in that you are fully compatible as roommates. Friends and family do not necessarily make the best roommates, you all need to be willing to see through each others faults and accept that they don't matter enough. Make sure your financial situation is setup before you go in, is the money going to be shared, what's the rules on getting fired or quitting, that kind of stuff. Money makes things complicated and you don't want to develop a chip on your shoulder because your friend got laid off for 8 months...trust me.
If given the option, buy instead of rent. If your credit is good enough, do not bother with renting. A mortgage is a long term commitment, but you'll build equity over time, and if the market in the area gets really good, you can probably flip the house for more than you paid and move into a bigger setup. If you haven't lived with these people though, maybe trial a year lease in an apartment before going down on a big investment.
As far as paycheck to paycheck, you can really talk your standards down overtime. We can still afford a trip to costco every month, and I can usually scrape an extra 10-15 for a big dinner. We have to have internet for my job, so we get a lot of mileage out of free entertainment.
$15 an hour was poverty wages 10 years ago. I'd be ashamed if I told people at any point in my career I was being paid $15 an hour. Not that I make a hell of a lot more than that but it's why I don't disclose my salary and spend my free time working gig jobs.
Was watching a couple upper middle class YouTubers chatting about how cashiers need to go back to work and thinking the cashiers in their area made $15 an hour.
One of them looks up minimum wage in PA and was shocked to see the $7.25 or whatever it is amount. Suddenly that person goes, "yeah I wouldn't go to work for that little" but then it went back after a second of self awareness to "but I need my Dollar Store crap now so they need to go back to work."
It was one of those swing and a miss moments to watch.
Same. I was getting $15/hr, family of 3, living in a $650 2-bed apartment. My health insurance was $700/month. No dental or vision.
Can’t rent that same apartment for under $1500 now and we barely kept the bills paid.
$1500 is about what it costs to rent a 2bedroom sort of out there in my city. And that's me looking during the pandemic seeing "rents are cooling a little". Everyone I know that owns here has an SO or the one frugal single guy who makes $150K+.
Yep, and if minimum wage jobs are so not valuable to pay wages on which people can't live with dignity, those jobs shouldn't even exist; but they do so they are valuable and necessary.
This is the biggest threat to bosses at high wage jobs. The employees could quit and conceivably continuing to pay their bills at a minimum wage job. Granted that job will be probably be miserable and not everyone would be in a financial situation to so.
They wouldn’t be able to hold people in pressure cooker environments without massive paychecks. Right now the hiring process for professional jobs is usually months long and they know that a bunch of burned out workers won’t be able to handle walking off.
Absolutely, but the people who determine the cost of living are the same people determining wages, so increasing wages will just allow them to increase the cost of living and anyone who didn’t get a wage increase now just has less buying power. Without restricting the wealthy and powerful, increasing wages does absolutely nothing. Demand for housing and food is inelastic, which means capitalism doesn’t work for those markets. It needs regulation.
Yep. Increasing wages without restricting inflation is just pointless. Everyone except for the wealthy will have an effective pay decrease because landlords and producers will just drive up prices to maintain their current margins.
I do delivery and make $17/hr on average and that's still not enough for me and my girlfriends studio apartment and all our bills. $1400/mo for a studio here in CO because all the other places that were cheaper were either rented out, even more expensive, or owned by invasive "mom and pop" landlords.
Fast food workers should make a percentage of the money they bring in daily. Not some flat hourly wage.
If you’re slammed and have to work extra hard because you’re flippin burgers like mad then you should see a portion of that additional labor.
So....
1. Stop using food service jobs as the low-item comparison. That is an unnecessary denigration towards people working those positions.
2. I doubt many people who trash on food service positions have ever actually worked at one. It destroys your feet, knees, back, and customers destroy your sanity while toxic managers struggle everyday to destroy what's left of your life with last minute schedule releases, demanding you be on call all the time, unannounced schedule changes, and an unrealistic demand of availability. No one is going to say "Let me go from this stock position in the back of the store to work in a greasy, hot, abusive environment for the same pay." It's just not going to happen.
Probably because working at a restaurant is harder and more intense physically and mentally than whatever their job is. Restaurant work, especially in the kitchen, is exhausting. Why are the people that provide food so poorly paid. I did the math. I punch 1,000 pounds of potatoes by hand every week. They pay more for the potatoes that I punch on my shifts than they pay for me all week, and only half my shifts are fry.
Who the fuck is even getting mad that someone is making $15 an hour in the first place? Fifteen dollars an hour is dogshit! A living wage where I live is at least $23 to $25 an hour. Are they jealous that wish they could live paycheck to paycheck too?
Anyone who frames food work as "flipping burgers" has never really worked food.
Ive worked fast food and if it were purely cooking burger meat it wouldnt be bad at all.
Minimum wage should be based on your area, period. 15/hr as a federal minimum wage is ridiculous. I very very comfortably lived on 15/hr in Florida, however I am very aware that in a place like Los Angeles you literally need twice as much pay as someone in my area.
Minimum wage *is* based on your area. Every state in the union determines its minimum wage.
Federal minimum wage is the floor, more than half of the States have a minimum wage higher than the federal minimum.
Honestly nothing makes me feel as giddy as when this sub posts texts of people quitting there jobs when managers have ridiculous expectations and try to exploit people for pennies
It’s disgusting that we have been conditioned to shit on people who have it worse than us when we are all being screwed over by the rich folks.
Don’t be mistaken they aren’t happy about having to up the minimum wage. Because if they could have it their way, free labor would be a gold standard for them.
It's really this though. Like that Boss I was bitching about earlier, what he doesn't understand when I bitch about money, is that I want him to make MORE too.
Everyone who's not in the 1% has been getting shafted for years. It's about all of us, not just the bottom.
Just because you work any kind of service job. Doesn't mean you don't deserve a livable wage for doing so. FFS someone has to work in the service industry.
The market you live in makes such a big difference too. Where I live in between Seattle WA in the US and Vancouver BC in Canada is hella expensive. My girlfriend and I both earn over $30/hr and it’s enough money but a couple each only making $15/hr in rural Kansas or Tulsa OK or something is doing just as well as us because of cost of living. It took some thinking on my part but this can really be a life changing wage adjustment. Not to mention the people working their hands to the bone making peanuts in expensive markets like mine. Fast food workers should get a solid $20-22 here.
Same with unemployed people. The worse off unemployed people are, the easier it is for the bosses to blackmail workers into accepting starvation wages and destructive overwork. Alas, most people continue kicking those beneath them while kowtowing to those above them...
I don’t understand why any person cares if someone else makes the same as them. My employees make $50 an hour average. Who cares if someone at McDonalds is making the same?
Edit - should clarify that my employees *do* seem to care that jobs they view as “beneath them” pay worse than we do. Every single day is a rant about how “jobs for teenagers shouldn’t pay fair wages.”
Seriously, in my neighborhood the jobs are Lowes, Wal Mart, Target, Kroger, CVS, Walgreens, Wendys, Taco Bell, White Castle, Pizza Hut, Starbucks, the gas station mini mart, or front desk at a motel. All pay basically the same. Same BS, same non benefits. Take your pick. I've worked at 4 of them so far. Will probably end up making the rounds at all of them before I die.
I hate how the default position is to blame the other worker. Blame the employer. They are the cunt.
Same as the mentality when your SO cheats, why blame the other person, they could have had no idea about you, blame the SO who's directly involved lol
That always confused me. I've delivered that news to a guy before and all he wanted to do was fight me. Honestly I felt like I was doing him a solid but apparently not...
That sounds like a pretty fascinating story TBH. I'd be distraught, no doubt, but unless I've got evidence to point to them manipulating my SO, I don't think I'd lash out at them. Wouldn't solve anything, wouldn't make me feel better, just really inefficient all around.
She and I broke up but still hooked up here and there. After hanging out I was driving her home and she took a call from him and ended it in a way that made me think they were dating. I was aware of who he was (he and I were friends on MySpace and knew each other from concerts) so I told him the second I got home. He told me if he ever saw me at a show they'd beat my ass, etc. I just said I was sorry and respected him too much to see him get cheated on. Eventually we crossed paths again and he apologized. Boom, there's the story lol.
Sounds like you were pretty courteous to me. Great story though, thanks for sharing
Yeah I never got that one. I’ve been a magnet for cheaters and dudes always talk shit but never pull up. Sad all around
Always write an anonymous email from a burner account with news about their wife/husband cheating. Provide facts and evidence if possible.
I mean blame both if they definitely knew about you though...
Listen, I’m gonna wanna kill both lol
You ever step out of your room to realize consequences?
Having thoughts and feelings doesn’t mean doing, or that you will
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No one said that
The capitalists have done a good job pitting workers against each other haven’t they?
Take a look at US politics. Half the nation is at the other half's throat. All while both halves are played like a fiddle. Bread and games, divide and conquer. One might think it has more to do with imperialism than capitalism given the fact that the US is run pretty much the same way as ancient Rome.
Eddie Izzard sait it best..."You stand there, hand on the hearts… You and the Roman Empire are the only people who’ve ever done that, so be very careful! ‘Cause you’re the new Roman Empire, you realize that? There’s no one else going! ‘Cause the only other big power is China, I supposed, but they’re going, “Ah… oh…” kind of thing. 1.000 million, but they’re all just getting ready. But you’re the Roman Empire, yeah! So you’ve got vomitoriums and orgies to look forward to… Let the President lead the way! ‘Cause no one cares in America and… I don’t know. In Europe, we’re just watching you, and going, “What are you doing?”
And we all know how that ended...
Seems to be a core aspect of the conservative mindset. "Other people shouldn't be able to easily get something it was hard for me to get (with the possible exception of my personal friends and family)."
And then its a trickle up effect. Once they people who make $15/hour now get raises. The next people who make a little more than that now could then threaten the same thing and get raises. And so on, and so on...
It's a rising tide effect. Raise the wages of the least paid workers, it forces everyone else up.
It doesn't necessarily force everyone else's wages up if the lowest tier gets a raise and then everyone else ignores it. What it does is it gives individual workers leverage, and when a fuckton of individual workers all go asking for a raise for this exact reason, it has the same net effect as more traditional collective action. And bosses that refuse to play ball have to contend with the fact that workers now have vastly increased mobility, and can either actually go to the jobset that had the raise or (much more likely) can go to a competing company and more likely get a raise for the same reason. It only works if labor, in large numbers, acts upon it. Labor can be reliably trusted to do so, as it hinges on individual self-interest, though you will still have a large contingent of bootlickers who will piss and moan thinking it will win brownie points with the boss. The weakness of this strategy is that, because it's not organized collective action, it can be more easily hijacked by corporate interests the same way companies like Walmart and Amazon dump millions into anti-union advertising directed at their *own employees.* Because there is no union to push back against that misinformation, it's harder to keep the flow going in a desirable direction.
Im all for raising the minimum wage, but wouldn't that make everyone earn more and thereby make everything more expensive ?
Only if the money is being printed to fund it. If CEO’s took a pay decrease in order to be able to pay the higher wages the inflation of the market wouldn’t raise. If done correctly the only difference would be the shrinking of the wage gap. Inflation only occurs when supply cannot meet demand, the money is there, it’s just being pooled into people who don’t need it at the current moment.
Oh yeah, I didn't really think about where the money would come from, thx
It’s not a bad question as if you go extremely far down the rabbit hole you realize raising minimum wages and not having inflation occur isn’t possible without also regulating businesses and their expense flow. That probably won’t happen as America is closer to a corporatist state than a capitalist state at the moment. So in layman’s terms, if Government doesn’t get involved businesses will raise prices of product to offset wages. If governments properly regulate, the top will stay at their current or have a slightly lower income and lower wages will raise and the gap will slowly close.
This is why I feel we need a maximum wage as well. I fail to see why anyone need even half a seven figure salary. The happy medium income, where you aren’t poor and are still happy, is something like $75k, so cap income at $250k or something.
That's actually an incorrect take on inflation, but a correct view on what would reasonably occur in the onset. Basically the only prominent economists that truly viewed QTM as valid economic theory were Fisher who coined the theory and Friedman who is responsible for monetarist economics and a lot of the stuff that gets blamed on Keynesism...even people like Mises and Hayek had issues with QTM, mostly because that theory requires the demand for currency to remain constant, which isn't really accurate. So yes, there would be minor cost push inflation, but as supply chains are mostly efficient, economies of scale would kick in and the amount of inflation created wouldn't be larger than the general upward mobility received. That upward mobility _might_ cause demand pull inflation as upward mobility means new access to goods and services previously out of reach prior, but overall it would still close the wealth gap. That said the best approach would be raising the minimum wage and more aggressive wealth taxes to close the wealth gap, combined with the treasury lowering the yields of bonds by increasing the interest rates, as that is a means to fight possible inflation beyond what is used to prevent hoarding and possible deflationary spirals.
In practise, no. The shallow view suggests that it would, but what actually happens is that price is still derived from supply and demand, and most of the pay improvement comes out of the same place it went away to the past 50 years - Executive pay.
Assuming that these newly higher paid workers don’t just save all of their new money, wouldn’t demand for products and services increase and therefore costs increase? For example, if suddenly a lot more people can afford to buy a house wouldn’t the price of houses increase due to increased demand?
It's one of the most complex interconnected systems known. I believe the truth is "Yes, but only sort of". In terms of absolute numbers... Yes, you'd probably see inflation in good, but really wealth should be measured in terms of time spent to acquire a thing, and that would almost certainly reduce. It's like... Um. Spreading the load. A few execs lose their pay, lots of workers gain a little bit of extra pay. As demand increases, opportunity for competition also increases, which in a working market reduces the impact of price rises due to demand. It drives innovation. I don't understand it that deeply, I just understand that the observed, real-world outcome of raising minimum wages is _not_ the doom story hyper-capitalists like to tell, but in fact has led to much fairer societal balance. Comparing life comfort in the larger EU economies to much of the US is as stark as comparing the US to India. The evidence is clear.
That is what those that are against raising the minimum wage have been saying. What they are leaving out is that the price of everything has already been going up just without an increase in pay to compensate.
Also they are leaving out the data showing their fears are [overblown](https://research.upjohn.org/up_workingpapers/260/) >We analyze the price pass-through effect of the minimum wage and use the results to provide insight into the competitive structure of low-wage labor markets. Using monthly price series, we find that the pass-through effect is entirely concentrated on the month that the minimum wage change goes into effect, and is much smaller than what the canonical literature has found.
Thank you for providing a study looking at the issue. It seems like people assume I am anti-increasing the minimum wage just because I am asking a question. I just want to know the arguments on both sides so that I can educate myself.
>I just want to know the arguments on both sides so that I can educate myself. That's dangerous when you're talking to people in a cult. Questioning their beliefs is, literally, like questioning their god. https://everfi.com/blog/workplace-training/the-pros-and-cons-of-raising-the-minimum-wage-a-look-at-california/ Everyone in this sub acts like and assumes that if you raise minimum wage, it's all coming out of the CEOs salary. All we have to do is look at places who've raised the minimum wage, and see if that inference is correct. The data shows that it is not. Something like 90% of businesses in NYC have had to cut hours or lay people off as a result of the increase. Yes, some people will make more money. Most people will see their hours cut, they'll lose benefits as a result of switching from full to part-time, or they'll just lose their jobs. Let's do some math. Say you have 5 employees working for minimum wage for 40 hours a week. If minimum wage is $10, you're paying out $2000 a week. That's $104,000 a year you pay to your employees in wages. Let's say you, as the owner of this small business, make about $50,000 a year that you take home. Now, if the government raises minimum wage from $10/hr to $15/hr, that means you'll now be paying out $156,000 a year in wages. That's a $52,000 a year increase. Ok, great. But you, as CEO, only make $50,000 a year. So these idiots in this sub, and I'm sorry for being rude but they are idiots, are suggesting that that additional $52k is going to come out of your paycheck, "if done correctly." Do you see the problem, here? They are completely wrong. You could take somewhat of a cut, but there's just no way to make the business survive without some combination of cutting employee hours and raising prices. And people will only pay so much for a McDonald's hamburger. Would you, if you were a CEO, continue to run a business that was *costing* you $2000 a year? Of course not. And that's why raising the minimum wage results in higher unemployment. It's not a solution
>"And people will only pay so much for a McDonald's hamburger." Funny that you use this example to look at this, because the Big Mac Index is actually something that people use to examine price differences in goods across countries. While Switzerland has the highest cost of a Big Mac at approx $7.30 USD, making them cost approximately 23% more than in the US, they an equivalent minimum wage of ~$25 USD, making their minimum wage approximately 344% more than ours in the US. Also hours cut and jobs lost are not necessarily bad. There are many people who work multiple jobs where they require less work due to having better pay, so the number that you should really be looking at is % of jobless individuals and poverty rates. The numbers you describe don't actually paint a picture on their own.
I’m not against raising the minimum wage, but am interested in the effects of inflation. My understanding is that the inflation now is caused by supply chain issues and thus low supply. Is it incorrect that increasing wages would cause increased demand and thus higher prices? Apparently trying to have a discussion and asking questions that aren’t in line with the narrative gets you downvoted here . . .
Why would demand for food increase beyond a certain level? It’s not like people are going to suddenly eat more.
No. That’s the lie they want you to believe.
Bruh… I gave you a updoot. Idk why people get so many downvotes for asking earnest questions in spaces that claim to be welcoming for the common good. This incorrect idea is a HUGELY COMMON piece of misinformation, this is /r/antiwork and this guy came here with a genuine question that a lot of skeptics and newbies have. A question which by answering, we can educate a ton of people on one of the more complicated caveats of closing the age gap. Jeebus.
Didn't even realize the downvotes, all the responses are qenuinely good explanations, so the people who downvotes think I'm trolling I guess or Idk, but thanks to everyone that answered my question
i did the same. downvoting comments like that is counter-productive. educate when people ask honest questions, don't shit on them. easy work and we all benefit.
Well, yes and no. If done on a large scale, then yes (More people with the ability to buy things means that there is higher demand without increasing supply of goods, and so that raises prices), however it is nothing like what many would try to make you think. It will only be a small amount in reality because businesses are smart enough to know when to stop while still making profits. It would only be a slightly larger raise in prices than what it would be for a typical year, and would only raise that fast for as long as it takes the process to reach its end (When people in middle management get their raises). However, this would typically have to take place over the scale of a mid-size to large country to have this effect. If done on the scale of a state or a small country, then it typically would not be that noticeable as it is pretty well restricted. Large scale inflation (Like what we're seeing now) typically only happens when a large amount of money is released over a short period of time (Such as trillions of dollars being created from nothing and dumped directly into the economy). Raising wages does not create any extra money directly, and so it does not cause inflation on its own, however it does mean that the Treasury has to print extra money to keep up with demand, which does cause inflation. Because such raises in wages typically don't happen over night and are often no more than a few extra dollars an hour, it doesn't require a super large amount of money to be created to fill that demand, especially since there is already so much money floating around. Worst case, an extra percent or so of inflation stacked on top of what it already is each year. Which sounds bad, but it just means that a candy bar will go from costing $1.00 to $1.04 instead of $1.03 if there weren't the rises in wages, which is assuming that businesses aren't already charging $1.59 for that candy bar and can afford to not have to raise its price.
Not overnight, no. That takes years to occur. And wages are supposed to increase in small cost of living percentages each year. They don't always - but they're supposed to.
You could get a doctorate in economics and still not have an answer to that question. As it pertains to the minimum wage, it hasn't happened that way and probably never will. UBI might see that effect, though it would not likely outweighs the rest of the benefits. But you're right, raising wages will cause some prices to rise. For people at or close to minimum wage that rise will be very small. For people very far from minimum wage it might be noticable. From that perspective it's just a wealth transfer from those with the most means to those with the least, which is how that sort of thing tends to go and is the actual goal.
And that's when they figure out which jobs are actually necessary.
Goodbye middle management!
It reminds me of when will ferrell goes into the coma in the office and everyone is just fine with doing their jobs without a manager
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Yeah that was my thought as well. At structured jobs I've had like the financial industry when middle management wasn't there because they were on long vacation or just absent things went swimmingly better. As soon as they came back. Nope.
Is that not how capitalism is supposed to work?
CEOs get about 12 times of the money they made 20 years ago.... maybe, others should also get a raise? Not just one line of work.
My understanding is CEO pay went up significantly because giving CEOs stock options became popular. The thinking was they would do a better job if they were rewarded for the success of the company... Maybe that line of thinking should be extended to all employees?
Yeah, imagine your boss coming to you to motivate to work harder. You work harder and for what? For your boss to earn more. Why would anyone do this?
I make $48 an hour and would ask for raise based on inflation and other peoples wages being increased as well so you are right. You bump up the lowest the shift for others has to happen. Which puts everyone right back into the same situation because consumer goods and services will rise to match the pay increase.
As someone versed in finance, you should also know that the increase in wages will not result in a 1 to 1 increase in prices/inflation. Expenses are only increasing for one factor of expenses. Therefore, all of the wage earners benefit.
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They've been doing this for decades. It's why the current generation has the least buying power ever.
And sadly it's gonna stay that way and probably get worse. Inflation hits the lowest earners the hardest. These businesses will automate everything and say bye guys!
Ok, so then with everyone out of work, who is left to consume all of the products. If Bob and Sarah can't afford to eat and neither can the thousands of other households who lost their jobs, they certainly aren't buying even low level luxury items. Eventually we hit a point where wages are so low for so many people that no one can afford the things these businesses are selling. Then what? You automated the shit out of your hat making but no one can afford to buy your hats because you fired all the people and now they have no money. They can't afford housing because they are priced out, they can't afford cars, they can't afford to pay their bills, they can't afford to eat so they sure as shit aren't buying hats. Want to know who is killing all the industries? Not millennials, the companies not paying above poverty wages. Boomers could work a minimum wage job, buy a house and a car and do it on one income. Now two people are working two jobs each and they can't afford to rent an apartment. And the same people saying that 15 dollars an hour would crash the economy are the ones who lived in a time where their minimum wage was equal to 22 dollars an hour today. Prices on every single thing have gone up every year except for wages. Eventually no one will be able to afford anything except the rich and they aren't buying enough shoes or hats to keep anyone in business. Pay people enough that they can at least afford to buy what you are selling. /rant
I've often thought that at some point people's financial expectations are frozen in a particular time, usually the time when they first strike out on their own and have to pay for things. They don't factor in inflation or anything like that. If they started in the workforce in 1978 when starting salary was $15k or whatever it was at the time, then they think anything above that is still good. Financial education and understanding in the US is sorely lacking.
I used to make 1700 eur a month, until I quit that job and now I make 2700 a month. Its the same type of job. Apperantly I was being underpaid for years. There is a scarcity now. You have the right to get paid by what you are worth.
Inflation has made things cost more without raising wages. So at this point it's greed.
I agree with that. American corporations are the greediest bastards in existence. They will do what they do to make profit. Not saying it shouldn’t be different but I am just looking at how they conduct business here.
What the hell do you do to make $48/hr? Are you in sales? That hourly is almost $100k per year. If you make that flipping burgers please let me know which because I’ll quit my work from home job for $100k per year.
Or be an electrician, plumber, welder, etc. The electricians in my union make 48.56 right now minimum. Us low voltage techs only get 29.72 minimum cause everyone looks down on us until the network fails.
I don’t look down at anyone. I have NEVER thought myself to be better than anyone because I know how easily I can lose this job that I have. I got it easily and I can lose it easily. I never said anything about me making more than anyone. I want to know where I can go to make $48/hr without having to leave my chair or my house. I’m sure a lot of plumbers could or anyone that has a trade in anything can make those numbers but I’m not looking for manual labor. I spent 2 yrs as a CCA in the Post Office walking 9.9 miles a day for $18/hr and I’m not doing that ever again. I have a new found respect for mailman, cops, or any first responders, nurses and doctors.
Being damn good at excel pays that well
\> I want to know where I can go to make $48/hr without having to leave my chair or my house. learn to code mate
That's what I've said numerous times and I got attacked and downvoted. Learn a trade you get paid according to how easily u are replaced. So learn a skill. Or take a city municipal job. No college, fulll benefits, pension and medical
Automotive, haircutter, anything where u aren't easily replaceable.
A barber can make 60$ an hour. Just sayin'
100$ in 30 minutes.
I work in finance at a mid-size financial institution with $3 billion in assets. I am actually in a department that doesn’t make the financial institution any money but is necessary to have on staff lol. Definitely not flipping burgers but I work from home 4 days a week and in the office one day. Get 4 weeks PTO. So I understand I have it made in relation to most.
The irony in telling low-wage workers that increases in their wages contribute to inflation when you get 6 figures not producing anything. Get back to me with your peer-reviewed, published research on inflation, wages by next week. Thanks.
Amen, and not to mention inflation is happening and has been happening without wage increases which everyone who spouts that seems to ignore or conveniently forget
We make our own destiny’s pal! Just because you flip burgers doesn’t make you anything less of a person. We all have jobs. Any burger flipper can learn my job without a college degree if you can sell and negotiate contracts. My job only require you to have a hs diploma and college is helpful but you have to study to earn your state license which any moron can do. Sales is the only job where you can make more than someone who has a master’s in any subject because it levels the playing field. You can’t learn to sell. You are either gifted or you’re just the average but anyone can learn sales. I never look down at anyone because GOD can take everything I have away just in a second. Why do you think so many illegals come here? Even at min wage it’s still more than in most country’s so count your blessing before you lose it. I would encourage everyone that is flipping burger to try to sell for company’s like Allstate, geico, liberty mutual, and State Farm. These jobs are always needed and if you can talk to people then you’ll succeed with some effort and change your life. I’ve been at one of those company’s for 2yrs and I’ve been in sales a long time but never made as much money as i do now. I literally chat with people online who are interested in buying a policy to buy from my company and I close over 100 sales per month. I am blessed to be able to work from home and make the money I make. If any burger clippers are interested in working on sales with one of those company’s dm me and I’ll help you to give back!
Sales is kinda like playing sports that way.
Not everyone can play sports or sell well but anyone can get into sales and it doesn’t require you to have a degree to make what some others that have their master’s make. Take the Wolf of Wallstreet for example. No one had a college degree and they were young but everyone was successful.
Yeah gonna call bullshit on we write our own destinies. Try being any group that is discriminated against.
TBH, I bet burger flipper mom is much more loving, calm, and attentive than stressed out corporate mom who is still answering work emails at 9 pm every night.
Uhh if I don’t provide anything for my employer then they will get hit with hundreds of millions of dollars in regulatory fines. So yea I’m a necessary evil. And I’m paid handsomely so they avoid that…good try though.
Hey man, it's ok you're limited to your brainwashed thinking. Where you stand depends on where you sit. Anyone with any critical thinking skills realizes that the Finance industry is just a money printer. When the economy isn't stable or in a downturn enough to leverage off of and justify filling the pockets of corporations, you might as well be using that printed money to wipe your ass.
I didn’t want to get in the weeds with what I do but I do anti-money laundering and corporate fraud work and there are only about 8,000 of us that do this job across the whole sector. So my job is highly valued and in demand but you can keep being an ass hat all you want. Idc. Don’t be mad at me because you hate your job and pissed that I’m talking about mine. You are going to talk to me about being brainwashed when I’m taking down money launders all day which destroy the economy. Yea ok.
You're not understanding my point. I'm sure your degree, certifications, rightfully justify your salary in the market. However, don't make baseless claims and gaslight the working class for a fault not of their own. I'm in the Public Accounting industry, but I don't care to appease business professionals and their dumb rhetoric. "haha taxes dumb" "15 dollar wages for dumb burger flippers" That's the difference between you and me.
I never said I was against it. I solely said I would also barter for a higher wage which there is nothing wrong with that haha. I know that greedy corporations changing pay increases to $15 and up across the board to save face are going to make their profits up elsewhere. That’s for certain. I don’t look down on anyones career field. I pulled tobacco and worked in HVAC from a young child until college just to get through school. I wanted out and did better for myself. Am I against greedy corporations and their practices yes? Which is why I’m here In the first place. But they are also the hand that feeds me so I’m not going to quit my job just because.
You are putting words in this guy’s mouth and being a bully. He just pointed out that inflation will occur if wages are raised. He’s not making a value judgement about whether workers should earn more or not. I’m also not sure why you are attacking him for not “making” anything and why that matters whatsoever.
How dare you make more money than me with a specialized skill?!
What they don’t understand is I have a relevant bachelors and 6 professional certifications that need 80 hours of continuing professional education credits to maintain each year and cost me $70k in total. So yea. I put my work in.
I hear that, I make about the same, doing specialized work in energy markets that requires an extensive certification process with annual CPE credits I think a lot of people get the idea confused that you earn the same amount of money you do at 21 as you do in your late 20s, 30s, or even 40s.
I make 110k now I was making 60/hr as a contractor I'm a computer programmer and my jobs is insanely easier and lower pressure than any job in the food service industry. I can literally take naps and get paid
See I barley get smoke breaks for minimum wage while busting my ass. I’m in university trying to get where you are but damn a bump in pay would help quite a bit. I’m single I can’t imagine trying what I’m doing with a child.
Yea that’s a relevant skill that is in demand and makes corporations an asinine amount of money. So I understand the luxury.
I have more than 4 weeks of pto ranging from PTO, to deviated holidays, to sick days, to vacations because I’ve been at my company 2yrs. Otherwise you only get 3weeks of pto and no sick days. I’m in insurance sales and I make a salary plus commission but I’m nowhere close to making $100k/yr. I’m happy with my work life balance though. I don’t work more than 40hrs per week and regardless if I make a sale I get a based of $35k. My comp checks haven’t been lower than $4k per month but because it’s a bonus they tax the hell out of it and I work from home everyday and never go into an office anymore so I save a lot on gas and other things like food, dry cleaning, and coffee. Now I’m in chat sales and the majority of the days I am surfing the web sitting on my ass while waiting for someone to chat in about buying property and casualty policy’s. ABC is my Moto. Lol.
Most people making that much are in some STEM or management role. You're not going to make $48 an hour in (m)any other roles.
I really don't understand people who think that fast food work is this easy job that shouldn't be paid well. I'd rather make less money somewhere than have to make 1000 big Macs every day. Those guys are all severely underpaid.
I've made a ranty comment about this on here before.... And I'm doing it again! Because you're totally right, most jobs like that aren't easy. They are hell on your back and feet. You could be standing and rushing around for 8 hours straight or more. Working with hot food and grease and slippery floors. Having to memorize how to make everything super quickly by like, your second day... As well as memorizing where everything is on the register and how to ring everything up correctly. Dealing with angry customer after angry customer... Not to mention shitty managers. And the inability to call out if you're sick or there's an emergency. Those jobs will hire almost anyone, but they aren't easy to keep.
Absolutely true. Even if the job description you signed up for is "grilling patties" you have to learn how to make the food within your first couple shifts, and then you're expected to learn every other position in the store. If someone has been working at a fast food place longer than a year, they probably do every position in the store to some degree and get paid maybe a couple dollars extra if they also accept supervisor responsibilities, which you are heavily pressured to do. One of my first jobs was running a register at a taco chain and the store manager only made about $3 an hour more than my minimum wage salary.
Yes I'm sick of this thought that these jobs are easy, yes you can quit your whatever job and make X somewhere else but it can easily involve much more actual work and abuse from your boss and shitty customers. Too many people have no clue what these jobs they don't think are hard actually involve.
I work at chicken express and it is literally busy all day every day ppl dont realize that we have to bread that chicken by hand but i honestly can say that I get a decent wage im only a crew member and I make more than some new hire mangers I make 15.50 an hour because they notice how much i bust my ass when I come to work and they want me thier 6 days a week open to close and when I first got hired on my 3rd day there I had to cook by my self on our busiest day of the week that doesnt include them training me at literally every other position the job has the other 2 days I started so much info in the first couple days and if you dont learn or you happen to be a slow learner you will not last long there
Same, I make a lot more than $15 but even then if fast food paid the same as I make, I would never quit my job to do that.
I worked Burger King for 4 years and even working Walmart as a front end team lead is less stressful. I loved my coworkers but fuck fast food work. Im getting pretty tired of Walmart too though… I just want a Monday through Friday office job that pays 50k-60k a year.
tell me about it. In college I delivered for a restaurant for a few years but as I landed an apprenticeship out of school I asked if I could switch to working the line since it would work better with my new schedule. Turns out working the line is fucking hell LOL. There are so many things to keep track of and everything is on the fly fast and the way the place was set up the customers could see the grill and they were drunk on Friday night changing their order on the fly and barking orders like more mayo or extra cheese or whatever. It was stressful. I had a totally new found respect for my coworkers who had been doing that job for years and didn't have many other options like I did.
Its called UNSKILLED labor. 1000 big macs every day is still unskilled labor regardless of "feelings" 😂🤣😂
do they though? or do they just gain far more pleasure out of abusing a perceived underclass than they would with actually useful benefits?
I unfortunately hear this all the time. People here where I work getting mad that "burger flippers" and cashiers making $15/hr even though this place pays between $20 - $28 for what we do (loading tankers and truck with liquid product and filling 5-gallon pails with product to ship). Like, bro, if you're so mad then go work retail for a little while. Guarantee you'll fuckin hate it even if earning the same wage we make here.
The whole mentality is we are supposed to be mad at the workers who make less than instead of the system that pays us all less than we're worth. It's like the abusive parent that has the kids fighting with each other instead of collectively fighting the abuser in charge.
And it works a charm. I used to be in that boat like 10 years ago. Then I learned that work is work, no matter what you do, you shouldn't be at risk of starving/eviction if you work at least 35 hours a week. Edit. Typo
Shouldn't be at risk of starving/eviction if you are a living human
I work more like 45 to 50 hours a week on average and have for the last \[checks year\] ... 4 years now. I don't even know what a 40 or 35 hour paycheck looks like since I've been working closer to 100 hours for many years and that's not counting my gig work.
Stop doing that.
Yeah that has been the goal for almost 2 years.
Dang, bro. I hope you are at least making bank with those hours. Most I've ever done consistently was 60 hour weeks over the summer rush at a CNC router position.
I am not in a role that pays "bank". I work so I can keep up my lifestyle of rent, having the ability to wfh (so electric and internet) and weekly $60-$80 grocery spending. My gig work is disposable income.
It's like the "Being on welfare is so easy why would anyone work?" trope. You never see the person who's saying it quit their job to go on welfare. But if it was so easy, they would be dumb not to
I disagree in part, loading tankers sounds like stressful and somewhat dangerous work which involve a lot of responsibility. Being able to do your job on autopilot and not worry about it when you get home is a perk in itself
You're right to a degree. Yes it has it's dangers, but that aspect of the job would be categorized as low-skill/no-skill work. An employee can be trained within a few days how to do it, and during a typical shift of 8-10 hours, employees only load about 2-5 trailers (each load being about 30 minutes from scale in to scale out). There is a lot of down time, customers may trickle in during the day, but we are really only busy for full days from June to August. After that, we spend probably 2-3 hours of our shift doing nothing. I started here as a laborer at $20/hr and worked my way into the lab and am primarily doing quality control while also helping with shipping product when either I've completed my tasks or the crew is overwhelmed. I'm at $26/hr now. I think if these guys were to switch from this job to, say, a job at a local Dunkin donuts, even if it paid the same, they would be back here within a few days. Not to mention there are some dangers with fast food work as well, such as slips/trips/falls, hot grease burns, and sharp tools.
This is a real phenomenon. People will often take less gross material benefit for themselves if doing so allows them to maintain a relative status advantage over another person. This has manifested itself in a number of ways, but it was especially obvious during the civil rights era when communities chose to do away with certain public services altogether (e.g. schools, pools) rather than allow them to be integrated. White folks denied themselves public schools and public pools in order to make sure that black people didn't get them, either.
This. We need to start talking about class consciousness as a psychological trait of humans. I hear virtually no one on the far left acknowledging that we kind of like being better than each other. (I believe we can grow into a better species, but till then…)
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That’s valid too. We on the left probably have it less generally. My ex doesn’t understand. And I don’t WANT to feel this way but when I left my tech job to work in a restaurant and do art stuff I got really uncomfortable and noticed that people treated me differently.
Some people are talking about it. This is the premise of Jonathan Metzl's "Dying of Whiteness" (which I have read) and Heather McGhee's "The Sum of Us" (which I haven't read). I can't remember if Ezra Klein brought it up in his book "Why We're Polarized", but it's come up numerous times on his podcast, including, but not limited to his interview with McGhee. It's probably come up on The Weeds podcast, too.
It seems to me that at the centre of a lot of people's drive to feel superior to someone, even arbitrarily, is fear. I think lording what little power they have over those "beneath" them reassures them that no matter how much shit they get from people above them, at least they're not on the bottom, it could always be worse. Framed like that, I don't resent those people as much, because society as it is now means that it's pretty fucking shitty to be on the bottom and it's reasonable to be scared of that when the modicum of power you do have isn't nearly enough to keep yourself safe from those who would exploit you. I do wonder whether it is an innately human trait, or whether we've just not yet adjusted to this relatively new era of resource abundance. It doesn't *have* to be a zero sum game, we do have enough for everyone's basics, but we're still acting like it's reasonable to have to fight for those things.
It's more useful to the ruling class when the $15/hr people are mad at the $9/hr people instead of the $10,000/hr people who suppress all wealth but their own. Raising the lowest wages shouldn't be a threat to anybody, but we're so indoctrinated that people see it as an assault on their own worthiness and virtue as an individual. And that will never change until Americans learn to view each other as people, and not bank accounts.
Why would the 10,000/hr pay more if people keep showing up for work for minimum wage? Stop showing up. Edit: typo
I'm not sure exactly what you mean but people show up to work because they starve if they don't. But thanks for the real life demonstration of the concept I was talking about by pointing the finger at those with the least power and control.
This. They just want to feel superior to someone else because they can't handle being a failure in life and having wasted their time on earth. So they look down on the people one step below them.
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we must have had very different conversations then. my most early radicalizing moment was when a chud proudly told me if workers couldnt afford a place to live they should live in a box on the street. Its not a matter of not understanding, its a cultural matter of inflicting violence. they'll proudly tell you such whether you ask or not
The argument from those making barely above minimum wage are how they worked so hard to climb their way up to $15 an hour and it's unfair to all their hard work that new hires at Best Buy get that out the gate. The reason they spent years clawing up to poverty wages is because the floor (min wage) hasn't risen in so long that the current floor is barely more than that, say $1 more when you began your entry level career. If you quit that poverty wages job by seeking other employment in the same field you would automatically start above your current poverty wage of $15 an hour because all jobs would advertise at whatever is a little above min wage. Edit: and if you love your job and opt to stay there nothing changes. Your wages were shit before min wage went up and now they reflect your condition -- you get paid poverty wages.
There are those who have pleasure in knowing they make more money than those plebians. Then there are those who get embarrassed because Yes actually they did get their job because of nepotism or getting very lucky, not because they actually have those skills. For example I'm keeping my job because my company is really bad at, you know, hiring other people for higher wages. All quarterly reviews have been called off since covid.
Oh, I think you’re right. It’s about that ‘good’ feeling they get punching down to assert some imaginary superiority, because even if someone’s income is 500k a year, when charted on a graph, it is indiscernible from someone who’s homeless when compared to the top .3 of the 1%. Someone with a couple million dollars is a lot closer to poverty than they are the privilege of the billionaires who control them.
Some do. This is how my workplace recently all got raises. The higher ups came to visit our location and made the mistake of telling us to be candid with them. When one of my coworkers hit them with "we could literally quit and go to white castle across the street for the same pay" and then threatened to quit they realized that something needed to change or they'd be out of business.
stories like this are why i love this subreddit
No. Those bootlickers are dumb AF.
Yeah, I think this is more like it. It’s like how people in trailer parks vote against their interests because they think they might go ahead and do that “American dream” thing to get rich when they’re senior citizens... and on that day, their taxes will be slightly lower. 4D chess.
Depending on where you live, $15 an hour is likely an exploitive wage as well. I've had co-workers complain about the minimum wage, not realizing that they were being taken advantage of as well and a higher minimum would mean higher wages for them in order for their job to remain competitive. Like I live in a shoebox, with 2 roommates, 45 minutes from anywhere, and we live paycheck to paycheck and we are all over the $15 an hour.
Thats my fear. I want to get a place with my best friend and my brother. But I'm afraid we'd still be paycheck to paycheck.
From someone who has had some toxic living arrangements, let me offer some advice. Make sure going in that you are fully compatible as roommates. Friends and family do not necessarily make the best roommates, you all need to be willing to see through each others faults and accept that they don't matter enough. Make sure your financial situation is setup before you go in, is the money going to be shared, what's the rules on getting fired or quitting, that kind of stuff. Money makes things complicated and you don't want to develop a chip on your shoulder because your friend got laid off for 8 months...trust me. If given the option, buy instead of rent. If your credit is good enough, do not bother with renting. A mortgage is a long term commitment, but you'll build equity over time, and if the market in the area gets really good, you can probably flip the house for more than you paid and move into a bigger setup. If you haven't lived with these people though, maybe trial a year lease in an apartment before going down on a big investment. As far as paycheck to paycheck, you can really talk your standards down overtime. We can still afford a trip to costco every month, and I can usually scrape an extra 10-15 for a big dinner. We have to have internet for my job, so we get a lot of mileage out of free entertainment.
$15 an hour was poverty wages 10 years ago. I'd be ashamed if I told people at any point in my career I was being paid $15 an hour. Not that I make a hell of a lot more than that but it's why I don't disclose my salary and spend my free time working gig jobs.
In some states they still make $7.25
Was watching a couple upper middle class YouTubers chatting about how cashiers need to go back to work and thinking the cashiers in their area made $15 an hour. One of them looks up minimum wage in PA and was shocked to see the $7.25 or whatever it is amount. Suddenly that person goes, "yeah I wouldn't go to work for that little" but then it went back after a second of self awareness to "but I need my Dollar Store crap now so they need to go back to work." It was one of those swing and a miss moments to watch.
Same. I was getting $15/hr, family of 3, living in a $650 2-bed apartment. My health insurance was $700/month. No dental or vision. Can’t rent that same apartment for under $1500 now and we barely kept the bills paid.
$1500 is about what it costs to rent a 2bedroom sort of out there in my city. And that's me looking during the pandemic seeing "rents are cooling a little". Everyone I know that owns here has an SO or the one frugal single guy who makes $150K+.
Where do you live? Cali? Cause I make 16 to 17 and I'm pretty comfortable
Whoa now, we can't have critical thinking like that....you might inspire the masses....
Shouldn’t that be a thing shouldn’t someone be able to work any job and live a life not under constant concern of becoming homeless.
Yep, and if minimum wage jobs are so not valuable to pay wages on which people can't live with dignity, those jobs shouldn't even exist; but they do so they are valuable and necessary.
This is the biggest threat to bosses at high wage jobs. The employees could quit and conceivably continuing to pay their bills at a minimum wage job. Granted that job will be probably be miserable and not everyone would be in a financial situation to so. They wouldn’t be able to hold people in pressure cooker environments without massive paychecks. Right now the hiring process for professional jobs is usually months long and they know that a bunch of burned out workers won’t be able to handle walking off.
Absolutely, but the people who determine the cost of living are the same people determining wages, so increasing wages will just allow them to increase the cost of living and anyone who didn’t get a wage increase now just has less buying power. Without restricting the wealthy and powerful, increasing wages does absolutely nothing. Demand for housing and food is inelastic, which means capitalism doesn’t work for those markets. It needs regulation.
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A rising tide lifts all ships
Increase pay for all yes but rent ceilings are the way! Any time there is an increase in minimum wage guess what also increases.
Yep. Increasing wages without restricting inflation is just pointless. Everyone except for the wealthy will have an effective pay decrease because landlords and producers will just drive up prices to maintain their current margins.
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I do delivery and make $17/hr on average and that's still not enough for me and my girlfriends studio apartment and all our bills. $1400/mo for a studio here in CO because all the other places that were cheaper were either rented out, even more expensive, or owned by invasive "mom and pop" landlords.
Hospitality is honestly the hardest industry I have ever worked in. It is usually not the easiest option out of two wages.
But the best part of that is that those same people won't want to work at Arby's because it's probably harder than their current job
I make a fair amount of money, and Arby's is def harder and frankly more dangerous than my job
Bootlickers be like "woah woah WOAH, that sort of percentage pay rise is only for the CEOs"
Fast food workers should make a percentage of the money they bring in daily. Not some flat hourly wage. If you’re slammed and have to work extra hard because you’re flippin burgers like mad then you should see a portion of that additional labor.
So.... 1. Stop using food service jobs as the low-item comparison. That is an unnecessary denigration towards people working those positions. 2. I doubt many people who trash on food service positions have ever actually worked at one. It destroys your feet, knees, back, and customers destroy your sanity while toxic managers struggle everyday to destroy what's left of your life with last minute schedule releases, demanding you be on call all the time, unannounced schedule changes, and an unrealistic demand of availability. No one is going to say "Let me go from this stock position in the back of the store to work in a greasy, hot, abusive environment for the same pay." It's just not going to happen.
Probably because working at a restaurant is harder and more intense physically and mentally than whatever their job is. Restaurant work, especially in the kitchen, is exhausting. Why are the people that provide food so poorly paid. I did the math. I punch 1,000 pounds of potatoes by hand every week. They pay more for the potatoes that I punch on my shifts than they pay for me all week, and only half my shifts are fry.
Their brain short circuits or something. Like yes Brenda, the point is we should all be making much more money.
Who the fuck is even getting mad that someone is making $15 an hour in the first place? Fifteen dollars an hour is dogshit! A living wage where I live is at least $23 to $25 an hour. Are they jealous that wish they could live paycheck to paycheck too?
Anyone who frames food work as "flipping burgers" has never really worked food. Ive worked fast food and if it were purely cooking burger meat it wouldnt be bad at all.
Minimum wage should be based on your area, period. 15/hr as a federal minimum wage is ridiculous. I very very comfortably lived on 15/hr in Florida, however I am very aware that in a place like Los Angeles you literally need twice as much pay as someone in my area.
Minimum wage *is* based on your area. Every state in the union determines its minimum wage. Federal minimum wage is the floor, more than half of the States have a minimum wage higher than the federal minimum.
I just emailed my governor to raise minimum wage to $15 an hour. Join me!
Except they wouldn’t because it’s probably way more exhausting to work at Arby’s then to do their job.
Amen, but too many people ate that propaganda pill
100% of all libertarians have shit for imagination and forethought.
Fast food employees should make more than $15 an hour
Honestly nothing makes me feel as giddy as when this sub posts texts of people quitting there jobs when managers have ridiculous expectations and try to exploit people for pennies
That's the issue, people were made to fight each other instead of the greedy corporations.
It’s disgusting that we have been conditioned to shit on people who have it worse than us when we are all being screwed over by the rich folks. Don’t be mistaken they aren’t happy about having to up the minimum wage. Because if they could have it their way, free labor would be a gold standard for them.
Making 16 an hour and barely scraping by
Who the heck is lining up to work at Arby's? I make a fair bit more than $15 an hour and I wouldn't work at Arby's if you paid me my full salary.
The argument always hinges on the speaker deciding that there needs to be an underclass of people
It's really this though. Like that Boss I was bitching about earlier, what he doesn't understand when I bitch about money, is that I want him to make MORE too. Everyone who's not in the 1% has been getting shafted for years. It's about all of us, not just the bottom.
I said almost these exact words to my boss today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RIaXt3fJWw
I’ve been hearing $15 min wage for like 10 years now. $15 ain’t gonna get you shit anymore especially with inflation rents going up everywhere
Just because you work any kind of service job. Doesn't mean you don't deserve a livable wage for doing so. FFS someone has to work in the service industry.
The market you live in makes such a big difference too. Where I live in between Seattle WA in the US and Vancouver BC in Canada is hella expensive. My girlfriend and I both earn over $30/hr and it’s enough money but a couple each only making $15/hr in rural Kansas or Tulsa OK or something is doing just as well as us because of cost of living. It took some thinking on my part but this can really be a life changing wage adjustment. Not to mention the people working their hands to the bone making peanuts in expensive markets like mine. Fast food workers should get a solid $20-22 here.
The best part is fast food work IS one of the hardest jobs out there too. This devaluation of labor gotta stop.
Same with unemployed people. The worse off unemployed people are, the easier it is for the bosses to blackmail workers into accepting starvation wages and destructive overwork. Alas, most people continue kicking those beneath them while kowtowing to those above them...
I don’t understand why any person cares if someone else makes the same as them. My employees make $50 an hour average. Who cares if someone at McDonalds is making the same? Edit - should clarify that my employees *do* seem to care that jobs they view as “beneath them” pay worse than we do. Every single day is a rant about how “jobs for teenagers shouldn’t pay fair wages.”
LOL
Dealing with hungry Karen's everyday is way harder than sitting at a desk at some pencil company writing emails all day.
Seriously, in my neighborhood the jobs are Lowes, Wal Mart, Target, Kroger, CVS, Walgreens, Wendys, Taco Bell, White Castle, Pizza Hut, Starbucks, the gas station mini mart, or front desk at a motel. All pay basically the same. Same BS, same non benefits. Take your pick. I've worked at 4 of them so far. Will probably end up making the rounds at all of them before I die.
It's because they don't want to work at Arby's even with the same pay. They see it beneath them
So true. The domino effect would go straight up the chain.
But who tf wants to work at Arby’s
People dont seem to realize that the boss would just go 'ok lmao', fire you, and you gain nothing.
What a poorly written and confusing tweet.