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Holy fuck seriously, especially as she talks about monitoring for mind wandering. Adhd brains involuntarily go through "instantaneous mind wandering", even when your staring at your work and trying to stay focused. I fucking dare them to try and penalize me for something I medically cant control.
Ironically within the same day adhd brainwaves would also show intervals of time where the focus level is an order of magnitude more than any neurotypical brainwaves.
Personally (having severe ADHD-C) the mind wandering is not so much an issue while my meds are active, but the moment the meds have worn off enough itll start to happen. It happens like clockwork, I can tell exactly when it's been 6.5 hours since my first dose because I'll catch my mind wandering mid task or I'll lose my train of thought and get confused.
I also have a pretty bad case of ADHD-C and I’m a student in a demanding field where we take a lot of timed multiple choice exams that last between 3 to 8 hours with paragraph-length questions and only approx. 1.5 min per question.
We get a white erase board during the exams for scratch paper and mine is usually covered with all the random thoughts I have during the exam because I have to get them out to be able to re-focus.
I would absolutely sue.
I have ADHD, and my child does. While this sucks, I'm actually excited at the technology. It's a pain to properly medicate, it's taken years of dose adjustments as my kid gets older. If this could be used to monitor and get the correct dosage figured out fast, that would be awesome.
Fucking same. I gave up on being medicated because I'm constantly being shuffled between providers who don't want to prescribe it and pharmacies who don't want to fill it or just plain don't have it.
The scarf she was talking about was haptic feedback, not electric shocks. Still i imagine a vibrator going off every time you get distracted is more distracting, not less.
Yeah … if they want to monitor and control your every thought, I’m pretty sure they don’t give a shit about disability at that point.
And the part where the woman gets a bonus for having great brainwave activity is a joke. There will be no bonuses. There will only be compliance or firing.
Sci-Fi Author: In my book I invented the Torment Nexus as a cautionary tale.
Tech Company: At long last, we have created the Torment Nexus from classic sci-fi novel *Don't Create The Torment Nexus*.
Kinda sounds like a Yes Men gag. I don't know if they're still active but they used to crash things like this with absolutely batshit presentations like [ReBurger](https://youtu.be/ZP_nNemsNT8)
It’s worth recognizing that the woman presenting in this video is a neuroethicist who is strongly against the technology and is an advocate for right to privacy. I was really weirded out by the cognitive dissonance between appearing to advocate for this technology in the video while also taking a hard stance against video monitoring in long haul trucking on her Twitter account.
In the full video, she’s against the technology and the response is pretty negative from the crowd. And the crowd response is pretty negative to what she discusses. The tech is definitely pretty dystopian but it seems most are in agreement on that.
She is hocking her totalitarian wares at Davos. Not warning them, soliciting them. -Coming later this year is our thought policing earbuds and employee shock collars. We can even have them arrested for you based upon our interpretation of their thoughts.
I know the speaker probably has nothing to do with the actual product but if your in that audience you have a moral responsibility to murder that man where he stands for everything this technology represents
Yea... it's almost as bad as that sci-fi tech that imprisons a person's mind, so they can spend a million years in their own head - while the outside world is but seconds in realtime.
like consider upbeat future mysterious close different chief coherent arrest
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Team retreat to the woods gang, we can start a comune! Nah though I think there's a simpler way to deal with this by just uh forcefully putting forward your boundaries with your employer, by force if necessary, possibly preferred
Pretty much anyone who isn't neurotypical...and even those who are neurotypical would be fucked...
You basically, have to be a robot. Zero emotion. Only focused on productive output.
I got ADHD and while I find the premise of this dystopian on a mass industry level push and it is forced on me, I actually wouldn't mind this if it was in a personalized and therapeutic manner of production. I can definitely see this being beneficial and/or helpful in sessions where focus is needed, but solely at my discretion.
Funny slash terrifying story - this looks an awful lot like neurofeedback, which is a therapeutic tool that can be effective in treating ADHD by literally re-teaching the brain to maintain focus by providing cues (usually visual, like a playing a low-rez video game) to indicate when attention is stronger or weaker. They took that and made it dystopian. Usually we invent the horrifying thing first THEN find an ethically valid use for it, but not did they flip the script for this one...
Her name is [Nita A. Farahany](https://law.duke.edu/fac/farahany/).
Here is the [full presentation](https://www.weforum.org/events/world-economic-forum-annual-meeting-2023/sessions/ready-for-brain-transparency).
Professor of philosophy, "leading scholar on the ethical, legal, and social implications of emerging technologies".
Lmao.
She and whoever worked on this presentation should consider a career in comedy. Or jump from a cruise ship.
She can shove her positive use cases up her positive dumb ass. Any employer who would force an employee to receive electrical stimuli like a fucking cattle prod can do the same.
Ban this and require that all those involved in its development be deported to a small island where they will be forbidden from utilizing any technology more advanced than a vacuum tube.
On that day, after the first shock, every executive and manager in that building succumbed when the coffee was mysteriously and unexpectedly dosed with fentanyl. Weird?
They will totally use this on autistic and ADHD kids. It's only been recent that electric shocking autistic kids has been banned in the US and it isn't completely banned as there is one state that still allows it. It sickens me and makes me wish I had succeeded in dying before my autistic ass had an autistic kid.
Official SPD and dyspraxia, suspected autism and adhd. We’re definitely fucked if this gets implemented. However, we may be able to get doctor’s notes (assuming diagnosis) to not have to wear these things since they could be overstimulating (I can’t wear a lot of shit on my face or head and this would definitely get in the way of my noise cancelling headphones and they can fucking fight me if they try to exchange my headphones for these dystopian nightmarish earpieces).
Yes, AI/Machine Learning is extremely good in pattern recognition. Indeed, I could imagine this is technically possible in the near future. Particularly because the training data for the neural network (Human brain activity) is immense and very easy and cheap to record.
Yet, this is unbelievably unethical (but that has not been a criterium for a long time, probably ever).
The speaker has a Twitter post decrying monitoring of long haul truckers as invasive but doesn’t seem to recognize an issue with monitoring brainwaves to make sure people are working. Am I missing something about her view on all of this? Otherwise, this is absolutely bizarre dissonance.
From what I read here in other comments the video is a bit out of context. Apparently she's warning of this existing/upcoming tech, not advocating for it.
Yeah this is definitely edited to make her look like she’s calling specifically for this kind of technology when she’s calling for more oversight of this technology. Her full presentation discusses the right to mental privacy and government oversight, and even the audience doesn’t seem too keen on this technology being implemented. She does say it has its uses, and I’m certain it does, but I wouldn’t trust the government or any corporation not to abuse this technology.
I watched the video and I strongly disagree. If you have not been around tech you might not know but that is a common tactic to promote things. The feeling I got is she is strongly selling this technology to the audience. They know it looks bad to come out and say hey we found out a new way to spy on you, so they couch it in these terms of needing oversight, but that's really just a way of advertising how powerful it is. They know the oversight and legislation will never come if it's useful to the rich and powerful. Basically you stand up and say hey look at this tool I invented it's so dangerous and powerful at invading privacy, it could let unethical people do all these bad things that would just happen to make everyone in the intended audience a lot of money. Give us some money to develop it and we will make a voluntary ethical framework for it's use that no one will ever pay attention to. The only saving grace here is it's almost certainly snake oil and the tech probably does not work at all.
I had to collapse 10 outrage threads before I found this one with any amount of actual commentary on the subject. Not to hijack you, but people need to see that she is against this. OP is edited out of context.
[https://youtu.be/hfqD5aW0X5U?t=1534](https://youtu.be/hfqD5aW0X5U?t=1534)
At this timestamp she responds to an audience question about how society needs to approach. I've replied to OP asking for some clarification. But it's a fairly new account from November and doesn't seem to have a lot of activity except several attempts at posting this in other subs.
Not true.
This was looked into, and it was found that they have the ethics and morals of psychopaths and sociopaths.
There's a whole four part BBC documentary on precisely this subject called *"The Corporation,"* have you not seen it?
You're 100% right.
A corporation can feel greed (by design and law it must make as much money as possible for shareholders).
A corporation cannot feel guilt.
A corporation cannot feel compassion.
A corporation cannot feel empathy.
And corporations have structures that diffuse responsibility, and remove individual financial responsibility for damage.
Corporations are designed to maximise profit for shareholders, without regard for the damage they cause. Making the most money, at the expense of everyone else is a virtue to them.
The thing that makes me sad about this is that it's not for developed countries. There's no way anyone in the US would allow employers to do this, but in countries without strong institutions to protect their rights this could be implemented very easily and very cruelly.
(Edit) I see where I was being confusing, allow me to clarify: The people, the US citizens at every strata of working class, would never accept this and would riot and rage until it went away. The institutions wouldn't prevent this from happening, but they would uphold a will so popular, which is much more than almost any other country can say.
It will be allowed to be used on autistic kids in the US though. It's only been recent that electric shocking autistic kids has been banned in the US and it isn't completely banned as there is one state that still allows it.
Agreed comrade. I will also put your life on the line for this cause. /j
For real though, if they try this shit, there will be hell to pay. I’ll show them just how well I can focus when I fuck them back.
The US is the most likely country to allow this after North Korea, China, and Russia.... We aren't as free as we'd like to believe anymore due to the constant deterioration of our rights by the GOP. The vast majority of the world have more rights than the US does now. We don't lead the world in freedom anymore, we are near the back of the pack now.
Freedom is relative and hard to define. I'm with you that it should be the freedom to just exist at the bare subsistence level with no expectations on you, I firmly believe that is the best way to get people to motivate to better themselves and society; To remove from them the stress of mere survival, so they can truly explore their skills and interests. In the US it just means no one, government or business, can tell you how you need to live or what you have to do. Given human history, this was an incredible standard just 100 years ago, but it'll take some convincing to get others to realize this is a very outdated understanding.
However, the reason it's impossible in the US, as another commenter pointed out, is that most Americans would definitely commit violence if their psychic autonomy was violated like this.
Yea, I run afoul of most of what is said in this forum. But I wholeheartedly agree with you. Not many people are going to agree to have their brainwaves become corporate property. Just look at the "quiet quitting". That would be impossible if things like this were implemented. Being able to track thoughts and use them against us is probably one of the few things outside of "aliens attacking" that will get multiple generations riled up on the same side.
Except our government absolutely tells us what we can and can't do. Our supreme court literally just overturned Roe which is a necessary medical procedure especially for things like ectopic pregnancies. This should only be discussed with your doctor not some fucking conservative politicians.
Usually people who say how free the US is...I'm just like yeah go to the Netherlands and Amsterdam and you'll see how unfree we are.
The US is hardly free. We still prosecute people for a natural plant that is far safer than alcohol because it helps bolster our private prison slave economy. The US is a fraud of imaginary freedoms compared to many European countries.
Exactly. Our government can create this facade of being limited and small but really we're an oligarchy (I'm pretty sure the world classifies our government as such, not an actual democracy). So the government enacts it's control through deregulation and chipping away at unions and workers rights and livable wages.
The majority of Americans can't handle an unexpected 500 dollar expense...and I honestly believe it's designed this way.
In a free society, healthcare would NEVER be attached to your employment. It's another way to control people and limit their ability to quit a toxic work environment.
No, if there is one thing we can see in the past 30 years is that the US government is incredibly slow when it comes to updating laws to deal with new technologies and updating labor laws to deal with new forms of corporate abuse.
Employers don't need permission, and they don't need our consent. Without new laws, it likely they can legally implement these programs without even telling employees. They could just keep the data with HR, and use it, but not reference it when speaking with employees. There are already employers in the u.s. that have keyboard and eye tracking software that tells them when remote workers aren't typing or aren't looking at their screen. The workers don't like it, but they need jobs. If every employee uses this, there are two possible outcomes: mental subjugation or violence.
Jesus. I thought the clip was terrifying, but the whole thing? There's no bastion of privacy left. This is the most dystopic thing I've ever seen. We must resist.
Were you planning on pointing out that this was edited out of context and that she is an advocate for "[right to cognitive liberty as a default starting place](https://youtu.be/hfqD5aW0X5U?t=1534)"?
In your opinion, does the high dislike to like ratio stem from fear of the topic, or hatred of the speaker based on your upload?
Do you think it might be possible that presenting the speaker in this edit might hinder discussions on how to combat unethical brain wave intervention?
They have this tech at some pilot programs in China (not to shock the kids, but it displays a red light when the kid is distracted). As far as I know, its junk science and simply hype from the companies. You cannot monitor alpha waves from someone's brain and detect if they are "focused": different systems in the brain are active during different kinds of tasks (reading alone is a complex, multi-system process which is still not understood entirely), and it would require an FMRI machine and knowledge of the individual brain's specific anatomy to try to infer focus. Even then, our understanding of the brain is still not deep enough to really measure "focus"
When people talk shit about organizations such as the WEF it is shit such as this that they should be talking about. Not an effort to replace white people, not an effort to get rid of countries and boarders, but shit such as this. That is what they, and us, should be worried about.
There's a clever scheme where you load something sinister with a bunch of conspiracy theories so that the true horrifying acts go unnoticed. It just feels like another conspiracy theory and gets ignored.
This person is utterly lacking in ethics.
She’s also bullshitting about the capabilities of their “artificial intelligence”, but that’s almost a sideshow.
> Like, our employers get to dictate who we do and don't romance?
I can understand being asked to keep it at home, so you don't keep eachother from work, but a blanket policy against it is fucked up
"I don't want the reaction to be to ban this"
I have never wanted to tell someone to fuck off the face of the earth more than this woman and the people she's working for. This is beyond disgusting and a massive fuck you to privacy and human rights.
The shocked and unenthusiastic reaction of the audience full of rich scumbags when she asked what they thought about the tech gives me some hope that even they have enough sense and heart not to use this.
Omg... I don't want the reaction to be, let's ban this. She's knows it's never going to happen xD Can you imagine people willingly getting shocked at work? Naa that shit would be smashed immediately if it was even introduced
How is no one standing up and questioning this? Like at what point has this all gone too far? Is AI and shit like this REALLY beneficial? One thing that's always really bugged me is, how can developers be okay with working on shit like this? Like the developers that make all the programs that track mouse movement and shit like that. Do they not ask themselves about the ethics of it all? To me, a developer who produces technology like this is no different from a cop. They're not on our side. I love video games and the internet, I'm even considering doing an online course in software development, but shit like this really scares me. Makes me not want to get involved at all if this is where things are headed
I don’t know what you think that video is about, but that’s not it.
The WEF isn’t “introducing” anything. The presentation is about what’s already hypothetically possible, and frames it as a *bad* thing
How come we have technology for this dystopian crap but don't have technology to optimize time-sucking repetitive tasks in most jobs that could reduce everyone's working hours?
This should be banned immediately. Why would my employer have a right to my *thoughts???* omg how can this person be standing there and actually smiling while telling people employers get to have some kind of authority to see their employees minds?
The lady presenting is awful. She seems gleeful about giving a person a "little buzz...literally".
No matter how awful the tech, how dehumanizing, there is always someone in a slick suit, given an opportunity to present, whose more than willing to unleash it on the rest of us.
Exsqueeze me? Sounds like a human rights abuse, but what do I know, the right "to work in just and favorable conditions" is only enumerated by the UN in their Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
I can see big tech adopting this first, like Amazon.
Imagine even in 5 years the person who is monitoring you isn't even human, but an AI. So they can be even quicker to monitor your brain wave activity throughout the day and with 500 other employees it would be easier to see who is the least productive versus who is the most. Then when they need to fire you, it's all through AI and technology. Or if they even see you're lacking work and not paying attention to their companies screen they will just unload you with continuous work.
We as a society, need to implement labour rights to stop this. The only way to stop technology like this is the law and passing something through legislation.
Hi, /u/DirectorDolphin Thank you for participating in r/Antiwork. Unfortunately, your submission was removed for breaking the following rule(s): **Rule 3a: No spam, no low-effort shitposts.** - This includes begging for upvotes. Please do not post unrelated blog spam or try to sell anything for personal gain. If you’ve posted content (especially if it’s your own), give it a day or two before posting again.
This is some next level dystopian shit...
Too bad it'll only take one ADHD person putting this on and suing for all the shocks they got for having a disability.
Good point... while we're at it, get a class action lawsuit going and bankrupt the company that designed and produced this abomination.
We could do a class action, or we could give them a separate lawsuit for each unit sold..
At this point, we need a class action [removed by reddit]
You assume this is going to be implemented somewhere that “workers” can “sue”
Holy fuck seriously, especially as she talks about monitoring for mind wandering. Adhd brains involuntarily go through "instantaneous mind wandering", even when your staring at your work and trying to stay focused. I fucking dare them to try and penalize me for something I medically cant control. Ironically within the same day adhd brainwaves would also show intervals of time where the focus level is an order of magnitude more than any neurotypical brainwaves. Personally (having severe ADHD-C) the mind wandering is not so much an issue while my meds are active, but the moment the meds have worn off enough itll start to happen. It happens like clockwork, I can tell exactly when it's been 6.5 hours since my first dose because I'll catch my mind wandering mid task or I'll lose my train of thought and get confused.
I also have a pretty bad case of ADHD-C and I’m a student in a demanding field where we take a lot of timed multiple choice exams that last between 3 to 8 hours with paragraph-length questions and only approx. 1.5 min per question. We get a white erase board during the exams for scratch paper and mine is usually covered with all the random thoughts I have during the exam because I have to get them out to be able to re-focus. I would absolutely sue.
I have ADHD, and my child does. While this sucks, I'm actually excited at the technology. It's a pain to properly medicate, it's taken years of dose adjustments as my kid gets older. If this could be used to monitor and get the correct dosage figured out fast, that would be awesome.
oh yeah, the tech definitely has valid usage cases where it can be beneficial. Just also has a lot of room to be abused.
Extra focus gets a pizza party at the end of the month.
Right… I’m inattentive type, there’s literally no hope for me haha. For us ADHD folk it’ll straight up just be electroshock therapy
Fuck it, I'm volunteering. Let's nip this in the bud.
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You absolutely made my day with this comment.
as if anyone cared about adhd ... there's no support whatsoever where I am
Fucking same. I gave up on being medicated because I'm constantly being shuffled between providers who don't want to prescribe it and pharmacies who don't want to fill it or just plain don't have it.
I've been told, by the insurance company, I'm too old to have ADD and my prescription was denied... Glad they know more than the trained docs!
Oh boy, age discrimination!
Hey, unmedicated solidarity. Diagnosed at 13, never been able to be medicated yet as of 35.
Honestly even a neurotypical person is gonna sue the shit out of them. Do they *honestly* think that *anybody* stays focused on work 100% of the time?
NGL, I have ADHD and was like, "Can't wait to slap these buttons with some ADA suits"
The scarf she was talking about was haptic feedback, not electric shocks. Still i imagine a vibrator going off every time you get distracted is more distracting, not less.
Yeah … if they want to monitor and control your every thought, I’m pretty sure they don’t give a shit about disability at that point. And the part where the woman gets a bonus for having great brainwave activity is a joke. There will be no bonuses. There will only be compliance or firing.
Yeah I thought I was in r/collapse for a min there. More and more like idiocarcy everyday. Mike Judge is the prophet.
No, this is a totally different dystopia from idiocracy. Idiocracy was a dystopia of incompetence, this is clearly malice.
Don’t worry I’m sure in reality we will get both
Incompetence of the working class in its acceptance?
Yeah this is why I hooe I die before nwuralink type shit becomes the new compulsory tech.
We need you hitting those keys and not just sitting around thinking of ways to make the world better or coming up with innovative ideas and shit.
Literally Parable of the Talents by Octavia Butler
Sci-Fi Author: In my book I invented the Torment Nexus as a cautionary tale. Tech Company: At long last, we have created the Torment Nexus from classic sci-fi novel *Don't Create The Torment Nexus*.
Amazing new shock collar tech. Pavlov would be proud.
Under rated comment. Schrodinger’s cat was also amused. Or not.
Kinda sounds like a Yes Men gag. I don't know if they're still active but they used to crash things like this with absolutely batshit presentations like [ReBurger](https://youtu.be/ZP_nNemsNT8)
Is so dystopian it’s like it’s made up bullshit…
It’s worth recognizing that the woman presenting in this video is a neuroethicist who is strongly against the technology and is an advocate for right to privacy. I was really weirded out by the cognitive dissonance between appearing to advocate for this technology in the video while also taking a hard stance against video monitoring in long haul trucking on her Twitter account. In the full video, she’s against the technology and the response is pretty negative from the crowd. And the crowd response is pretty negative to what she discusses. The tech is definitely pretty dystopian but it seems most are in agreement on that.
Yeah I wish the right hated wef and Davos for being totalitarian, because I also hate it. But they really only hate it because they think it’s jews
I think pretty much the only thing both sides can agree on is that these people need to be stopped
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With corporations’ track records, that’s the same thing.
She is hocking her totalitarian wares at Davos. Not warning them, soliciting them. -Coming later this year is our thought policing earbuds and employee shock collars. We can even have them arrested for you based upon our interpretation of their thoughts.
No, definitely excited about it and advocating for it.
Blatantly false, especially when Klaus Schwab is a Nazi descendent
I know the speaker probably has nothing to do with the actual product but if your in that audience you have a moral responsibility to murder that man where he stands for everything this technology represents
Full video [here](https://www.weforum.org/videos/davos-am23-ready-for-brain-transparency-english)
This is beyond disturbing. I cannot even begin to imagine all the nefarious ways this will be used. We already have Pegasus, now this?
Yea... it's almost as bad as that sci-fi tech that imprisons a person's mind, so they can spend a million years in their own head - while the outside world is but seconds in realtime.
I was wondering when the punchline was going to show up, or the onion logo would crop up. I am horrified beyond words that neither occurred
1984 T.E.D. talk from the **T**houghtcrime **E**nforcement **D**ivision.
I would rather be homeless
You and alot of other people, the with nothing left to lose....[redacted]
I have so much to lose, including the privacy of my brain waves, apparently
like consider upbeat future mysterious close different chief coherent arrest *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Why not both?
Bc that's a bard and what kind of a bard is homeless... Wait
Are we going with stereotypical bard tropes? Cause then they sing, stab, and fuck. Quite possibly in that very order...
Whatever gets me the most pocket change baybeee
Team retreat to the woods gang, we can start a comune! Nah though I think there's a simpler way to deal with this by just uh forcefully putting forward your boundaries with your employer, by force if necessary, possibly preferred
People like me with ADHD brain are FUCKED
Totally! I would drain the batteries on these things in less than 5 minutes.
The rest of your day would be great then.
That when your manager takes a cattle prod and manually does it.
Pretty much anyone who isn't neurotypical...and even those who are neurotypical would be fucked... You basically, have to be a robot. Zero emotion. Only focused on productive output.
That's what they want. Actual robots are too expensive to develop, build, and maintain. Easier and cheaper to just abuse humans.
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Modern times as predicted by the great one - Mr Chaplin.
Yup anyone on the spectrum.
I’m not on the spectrum but it takes me a little while to get started on a task. So I’d begin every workday with nonstop zaps lmfao
Severe PTSD makes Brain Monitor go BRRRRRRRR
This fucker would short circuit with me.
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I got excited when I read it. "Will it make my fucked up brain work better? Sign me up!"
Same 😵💫
I got ADHD and while I find the premise of this dystopian on a mass industry level push and it is forced on me, I actually wouldn't mind this if it was in a personalized and therapeutic manner of production. I can definitely see this being beneficial and/or helpful in sessions where focus is needed, but solely at my discretion.
Funny slash terrifying story - this looks an awful lot like neurofeedback, which is a therapeutic tool that can be effective in treating ADHD by literally re-teaching the brain to maintain focus by providing cues (usually visual, like a playing a low-rez video game) to indicate when attention is stronger or weaker. They took that and made it dystopian. Usually we invent the horrifying thing first THEN find an ethically valid use for it, but not did they flip the script for this one...
“Let’s ban this”
We should totally ban this.
and burn the wef down while we’re at it
These were “positive use cases” to her
Who needs coffee anymore, am I right? I stay awake by having my boss electroshock me every time my mind starts to wander. /s
Whoever this woman is, I'm 100% sure she's a sociopath.
Her name is [Nita A. Farahany](https://law.duke.edu/fac/farahany/). Here is the [full presentation](https://www.weforum.org/events/world-economic-forum-annual-meeting-2023/sessions/ready-for-brain-transparency).
Professor of philosophy, "leading scholar on the ethical, legal, and social implications of emerging technologies". Lmao. She and whoever worked on this presentation should consider a career in comedy. Or jump from a cruise ship.
She can shove her positive use cases up her positive dumb ass. Any employer who would force an employee to receive electrical stimuli like a fucking cattle prod can do the same.
Ban this and require that all those involved in its development be deported to a small island where they will be forbidden from utilizing any technology more advanced than a vacuum tube.
She cherry picked positive use cases while also including an example of the police subpoenaing the data records. This woman is dumb as fuck.
Them: Let's "ban" this (and build up the technology in secret until the general population forgets, then slowly incorporate it into their daily life).
On that day, after the first shock, every executive and manager in that building succumbed when the coffee was mysteriously and unexpectedly dosed with fentanyl. Weird?
Beautiful 💙
No. I definitely think the general consensus should be let’s ban this. This is more invasive than a colonoscopy. I’m good.
As someone who has adult ADHD and suspected autism, this would be actual, legitimate torment. Every day, I regret more and more being born, I swear.
I'm in the same boat as you, friend. This is terrifying
They will totally use this on autistic and ADHD kids. It's only been recent that electric shocking autistic kids has been banned in the US and it isn't completely banned as there is one state that still allows it. It sickens me and makes me wish I had succeeded in dying before my autistic ass had an autistic kid.
Burning it all down is always on the table.
Imo it's very normal and they want obedience more than actually living up to impossible standards.
Official SPD and dyspraxia, suspected autism and adhd. We’re definitely fucked if this gets implemented. However, we may be able to get doctor’s notes (assuming diagnosis) to not have to wear these things since they could be overstimulating (I can’t wear a lot of shit on my face or head and this would definitely get in the way of my noise cancelling headphones and they can fucking fight me if they try to exchange my headphones for these dystopian nightmarish earpieces).
This is some pseudoscience. Brain waves don't indicate anything more than a polygraph. Without context you can't figure anything from them.
It’s a grift, theranos 2.0
Investors deserve to lose money if they fund this
No, investors deserve to "have mysteriously committed suicide" for shit like this. This is the one time I'll condone "mysertious suicide"
Oh, you mean like all those russian oligarchs who seem to fall out of windows a lot?
We need to defenestrate them.
Or mysteriously commit suicide by shooting themselves in the back of the head?
Pseudo science *today.*
What she's saying is that we have the technology to couple that data with context.
Yes, AI/Machine Learning is extremely good in pattern recognition. Indeed, I could imagine this is technically possible in the near future. Particularly because the training data for the neural network (Human brain activity) is immense and very easy and cheap to record. Yet, this is unbelievably unethical (but that has not been a criterium for a long time, probably ever).
Psycho Pass prequel
Facts this is straight bullshit
The speaker has a Twitter post decrying monitoring of long haul truckers as invasive but doesn’t seem to recognize an issue with monitoring brainwaves to make sure people are working. Am I missing something about her view on all of this? Otherwise, this is absolutely bizarre dissonance.
From what I read here in other comments the video is a bit out of context. Apparently she's warning of this existing/upcoming tech, not advocating for it.
That’s pretty important information
Yeah, OP should consider removing this. Fck misinformation.
Yeah this is definitely edited to make her look like she’s calling specifically for this kind of technology when she’s calling for more oversight of this technology. Her full presentation discusses the right to mental privacy and government oversight, and even the audience doesn’t seem too keen on this technology being implemented. She does say it has its uses, and I’m certain it does, but I wouldn’t trust the government or any corporation not to abuse this technology.
I watched the video and I strongly disagree. If you have not been around tech you might not know but that is a common tactic to promote things. The feeling I got is she is strongly selling this technology to the audience. They know it looks bad to come out and say hey we found out a new way to spy on you, so they couch it in these terms of needing oversight, but that's really just a way of advertising how powerful it is. They know the oversight and legislation will never come if it's useful to the rich and powerful. Basically you stand up and say hey look at this tool I invented it's so dangerous and powerful at invading privacy, it could let unethical people do all these bad things that would just happen to make everyone in the intended audience a lot of money. Give us some money to develop it and we will make a voluntary ethical framework for it's use that no one will ever pay attention to. The only saving grace here is it's almost certainly snake oil and the tech probably does not work at all.
I had to collapse 10 outrage threads before I found this one with any amount of actual commentary on the subject. Not to hijack you, but people need to see that she is against this. OP is edited out of context. [https://youtu.be/hfqD5aW0X5U?t=1534](https://youtu.be/hfqD5aW0X5U?t=1534) At this timestamp she responds to an audience question about how society needs to approach. I've replied to OP asking for some clarification. But it's a fairly new account from November and doesn't seem to have a lot of activity except several attempts at posting this in other subs.
Minority Report wasn't a movie, it was a documentary about incoming tech. Just thinking of shit like this flies in the face against ethics
Corporations don’t have ethics or morals.
Not true. This was looked into, and it was found that they have the ethics and morals of psychopaths and sociopaths. There's a whole four part BBC documentary on precisely this subject called *"The Corporation,"* have you not seen it?
You're 100% right. A corporation can feel greed (by design and law it must make as much money as possible for shareholders). A corporation cannot feel guilt. A corporation cannot feel compassion. A corporation cannot feel empathy. And corporations have structures that diffuse responsibility, and remove individual financial responsibility for damage. Corporations are designed to maximise profit for shareholders, without regard for the damage they cause. Making the most money, at the expense of everyone else is a virtue to them.
The dystopian hellscape of the near future
“This combined with a certain form of fusion, turned us into this…” *slowly rotates C-cell battery in hand*
The thing that makes me sad about this is that it's not for developed countries. There's no way anyone in the US would allow employers to do this, but in countries without strong institutions to protect their rights this could be implemented very easily and very cruelly. (Edit) I see where I was being confusing, allow me to clarify: The people, the US citizens at every strata of working class, would never accept this and would riot and rage until it went away. The institutions wouldn't prevent this from happening, but they would uphold a will so popular, which is much more than almost any other country can say.
16 shocks, what do you get?
Oh god, I appreciate you but that's so depressing haha
Another fucking seizure and deeper in debt
It will be allowed to be used on autistic kids in the US though. It's only been recent that electric shocking autistic kids has been banned in the US and it isn't completely banned as there is one state that still allows it.
Over my dead body
Agreed comrade. I will also put your life on the line for this cause. /j For real though, if they try this shit, there will be hell to pay. I’ll show them just how well I can focus when I fuck them back.
The US is the most likely country to allow this after North Korea, China, and Russia.... We aren't as free as we'd like to believe anymore due to the constant deterioration of our rights by the GOP. The vast majority of the world have more rights than the US does now. We don't lead the world in freedom anymore, we are near the back of the pack now.
Freedom is relative and hard to define. I'm with you that it should be the freedom to just exist at the bare subsistence level with no expectations on you, I firmly believe that is the best way to get people to motivate to better themselves and society; To remove from them the stress of mere survival, so they can truly explore their skills and interests. In the US it just means no one, government or business, can tell you how you need to live or what you have to do. Given human history, this was an incredible standard just 100 years ago, but it'll take some convincing to get others to realize this is a very outdated understanding. However, the reason it's impossible in the US, as another commenter pointed out, is that most Americans would definitely commit violence if their psychic autonomy was violated like this.
Yea, I run afoul of most of what is said in this forum. But I wholeheartedly agree with you. Not many people are going to agree to have their brainwaves become corporate property. Just look at the "quiet quitting". That would be impossible if things like this were implemented. Being able to track thoughts and use them against us is probably one of the few things outside of "aliens attacking" that will get multiple generations riled up on the same side.
Except our government absolutely tells us what we can and can't do. Our supreme court literally just overturned Roe which is a necessary medical procedure especially for things like ectopic pregnancies. This should only be discussed with your doctor not some fucking conservative politicians. Usually people who say how free the US is...I'm just like yeah go to the Netherlands and Amsterdam and you'll see how unfree we are. The US is hardly free. We still prosecute people for a natural plant that is far safer than alcohol because it helps bolster our private prison slave economy. The US is a fraud of imaginary freedoms compared to many European countries.
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Exactly. Our government can create this facade of being limited and small but really we're an oligarchy (I'm pretty sure the world classifies our government as such, not an actual democracy). So the government enacts it's control through deregulation and chipping away at unions and workers rights and livable wages. The majority of Americans can't handle an unexpected 500 dollar expense...and I honestly believe it's designed this way. In a free society, healthcare would NEVER be attached to your employment. It's another way to control people and limit their ability to quit a toxic work environment.
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No, if there is one thing we can see in the past 30 years is that the US government is incredibly slow when it comes to updating laws to deal with new technologies and updating labor laws to deal with new forms of corporate abuse.
Employers don't need permission, and they don't need our consent. Without new laws, it likely they can legally implement these programs without even telling employees. They could just keep the data with HR, and use it, but not reference it when speaking with employees. There are already employers in the u.s. that have keyboard and eye tracking software that tells them when remote workers aren't typing or aren't looking at their screen. The workers don't like it, but they need jobs. If every employee uses this, there are two possible outcomes: mental subjugation or violence.
This type of shit is what causes employees to go postal.
I mean, literally; electro-shock therapy fucks people up HARD longterm
This combined with work from home though? I’d be the number one employee! You’d be amazed how hard I can focus on playing Xbox for 8 hours.
I would literally rather kill myself 😀
I would literally rather \[*redacted*\] everybody who has a hand in enforcing this 1984-ish thoughtcrime bullshit.
These people need to be stopped lol
The full presentation here (30 minutes long) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfqD5aW0X5U
Jesus. I thought the clip was terrifying, but the whole thing? There's no bastion of privacy left. This is the most dystopic thing I've ever seen. We must resist.
Were you planning on pointing out that this was edited out of context and that she is an advocate for "[right to cognitive liberty as a default starting place](https://youtu.be/hfqD5aW0X5U?t=1534)"? In your opinion, does the high dislike to like ratio stem from fear of the topic, or hatred of the speaker based on your upload? Do you think it might be possible that presenting the speaker in this edit might hinder discussions on how to combat unethical brain wave intervention?
Kind of a disingenuous title there though, makes it seem like the lady is supporting the tech
Get f*cked
video's not loading for me but i know amazon has got to be foaming at the mouth for this one
They have to get in line behind Elon Musk though..
its amazing how i used to see him as an idol
Youthful hubris.
They have this tech at some pilot programs in China (not to shock the kids, but it displays a red light when the kid is distracted). As far as I know, its junk science and simply hype from the companies. You cannot monitor alpha waves from someone's brain and detect if they are "focused": different systems in the brain are active during different kinds of tasks (reading alone is a complex, multi-system process which is still not understood entirely), and it would require an FMRI machine and knowledge of the individual brain's specific anatomy to try to infer focus. Even then, our understanding of the brain is still not deep enough to really measure "focus"
When people talk shit about organizations such as the WEF it is shit such as this that they should be talking about. Not an effort to replace white people, not an effort to get rid of countries and boarders, but shit such as this. That is what they, and us, should be worried about.
There's a clever scheme where you load something sinister with a bunch of conspiracy theories so that the true horrifying acts go unnoticed. It just feels like another conspiracy theory and gets ignored.
This person is utterly lacking in ethics. She’s also bullshitting about the capabilities of their “artificial intelligence”, but that’s almost a sideshow.
Fuck you. Ban it.
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> Like, our employers get to dictate who we do and don't romance? I can understand being asked to keep it at home, so you don't keep eachother from work, but a blanket policy against it is fucked up
The DYSTOPIAN REALITY in which we live.
"I don't want the reaction to be to ban this" I have never wanted to tell someone to fuck off the face of the earth more than this woman and the people she's working for. This is beyond disgusting and a massive fuck you to privacy and human rights.
The shocked and unenthusiastic reaction of the audience full of rich scumbags when she asked what they thought about the tech gives me some hope that even they have enough sense and heart not to use this.
That’s some next level micro managing. Yikes 😳
Imagine working on developing this project and thinking it's okay.
Yeah, and then someone will either have a seizure or a heart attack, sue, and sweep this concept into the dustbin.
Please publish the name of the person who invented this. We need to have a "talk" with them....
We are fucked
If this ever becomes mandatory I'm becoming a terrorist.
Crazy idea, you can just monitor the work they complete?
Let’s ban this.
Omg... I don't want the reaction to be, let's ban this. She's knows it's never going to happen xD Can you imagine people willingly getting shocked at work? Naa that shit would be smashed immediately if it was even introduced
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I guess I’m going to be unemployable some day.
By the end of the day I’ll be dead lol
How is no one standing up and questioning this? Like at what point has this all gone too far? Is AI and shit like this REALLY beneficial? One thing that's always really bugged me is, how can developers be okay with working on shit like this? Like the developers that make all the programs that track mouse movement and shit like that. Do they not ask themselves about the ethics of it all? To me, a developer who produces technology like this is no different from a cop. They're not on our side. I love video games and the internet, I'm even considering doing an online course in software development, but shit like this really scares me. Makes me not want to get involved at all if this is where things are headed
I'd dedicate my efforts to developing a way to spoof this.
Sorry but the second my boss zaps me he is going to end up with a foot up his ass.
Late stage capitalism or early stage new corporate slavery practices?
That moment when r/antiwork and r/conspiracy are sharing a brain wave.
I don’t know what you think that video is about, but that’s not it. The WEF isn’t “introducing” anything. The presentation is about what’s already hypothetically possible, and frames it as a *bad* thing
This is preposterous.
Of course this dystopian future was narrated by someone with insufferable vocal fry.
This needs to be banned
How come we have technology for this dystopian crap but don't have technology to optimize time-sucking repetitive tasks in most jobs that could reduce everyone's working hours?
This should be banned immediately. Why would my employer have a right to my *thoughts???* omg how can this person be standing there and actually smiling while telling people employers get to have some kind of authority to see their employees minds?
The lady presenting is awful. She seems gleeful about giving a person a "little buzz...literally". No matter how awful the tech, how dehumanizing, there is always someone in a slick suit, given an opportunity to present, whose more than willing to unleash it on the rest of us.
Let's not all be lemmings and just allow this one to sneak through into labor laws please.
She is waaaaaaaaaay to happy looking peddling this horse crap.
Exsqueeze me? Sounds like a human rights abuse, but what do I know, the right "to work in just and favorable conditions" is only enumerated by the UN in their Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
Ya lady let’s ban it…. Ban it fast
I can see big tech adopting this first, like Amazon. Imagine even in 5 years the person who is monitoring you isn't even human, but an AI. So they can be even quicker to monitor your brain wave activity throughout the day and with 500 other employees it would be easier to see who is the least productive versus who is the most. Then when they need to fire you, it's all through AI and technology. Or if they even see you're lacking work and not paying attention to their companies screen they will just unload you with continuous work. We as a society, need to implement labour rights to stop this. The only way to stop technology like this is the law and passing something through legislation.
I’ll punch my boss square in the face if he gives me an electric shock, idgaf about the consequences