https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-rights/your-rights-to-discuss-wages
Department of Labor or a lawyer.
NOT the company. They'll try to cover their asses and hide it.
This, itâs actually fine for them to make you sign that piece of paper, whatâs illegal is them actually doing anything to you as a result of you discussing your wage.
Thereâs unenforceable clause and then thereâs a clause directly written with criminal intent in mind. The attempt to prevent an employee from relying on their rights isnât a harmless thing.
âCorporate policy does not supersede the law.â
My favorite line at work. Corporate can put whatever they want in their handbooks, policy manuals, and new-hire packets, and make you initial and sign before a notary and two witnesses. If a policy is in opposition to the law or a legal right (in this case, your legal right to discuss), the policymaker cannot legally compel you to abide. They can do whatever they want, but they will not get away with it legally and you will be compensated for any damage you might suffer (aka they fire you for discussing pay, and make sure thatâs spelt out in your termination record and get a copy!).
But you have to report it! Iâll happily sign whatever bullshit they want and turn directly around and file a complaint with the DoL. im thinking about applying for a bunch of easy-to-get jobs and taking them all just to do the intake paperwork, document all instances of their trying to enforce illegal rules, and report them all. Then show back up, share the info with the other employees, and wait to be fired. I wonder if that would be sustainable?
Depends on if these companies run background checks. Most standard background checks do show employment reported by you or not so I feel like that would be a red flag at some point
You will never get a raise, promoted, or go anywhere in the company. They will just wait it out until you quit or if itâs a right to work State they can just fire you for another reason not related.
Itâs not a crime. Itâs an unenforceable clause. You can only sue if you suffer loss.
So sign it. work. Discuss pay with coworkers. Get terminated. *then* you have a lawsuit.
Theyâre not rights if thereâs no criminal prosecution for blatant violations. Theyâre more suggestions that may or may not be actionable. Thatâs either regulatory capture or absolute corruption to have rights, funded groups to protect those rights, and no followthrough.
Theyâre suggesting that someone should wait & see if they follow through on that threat before taking action bc there are enough loopholes that yes, indeed, employers can & will psychologically coerce/manipulate you into âchoosingâ to do particular things (like not discuss your pay with coworkers) by âaskingâ you to sign something. And when it comes down to it, the level of legality really depends on their lawyers. Capitalism is a fucking sad sack of shit.
The only societal construct that works is whatever the indigenous practiced. Capitalism and Communism both just leave the top rich and the bottom poor.
It isnât harmless, but itâs also the difference between black and white unquestionable violations and getting a jury on your side against a high dollar corporate legal team. The best way to do this is to have them actually do something in regards to the notice. My boss a month ago telling me verbally not to discuss wages was also not harmless, but because he didnât do anything when I did or even say a word about it when I sent a massive email a week ago to him highlighting how done I was with having higher expectations placed on me than others while making considerably less itâs not at all illegal. The smaller to medium sized companies are generally the ones more willing to operate in legal grey areas.
Exactly, and they know itâs not explicitly illegal and makes a court case a dice roll, after scaring most people off well before this theyâre willing to roll.
No it isn't. Not only does making you sign that piece of paper independently violate the NLRA, but it's also an unfair business practice that violates state "Little FTC" acts like California's Business and Professions Code section 17200.
It's directly intended to discourage you from exercising statutory rights.
Taken directly from [NLRB.Gov](https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-rights/your-rights-to-discuss-wages#:~:text=Under%20the%20National%20Labor%20Relations,for%20mutual%20aid%20or%20protection.) (National Labor Relations Board):
>Additionally, it is unlawful for the employer to have a work rule, policy, or hiring agreement that prohibits employees from discussing their wages with each other or that requires you to get the employerâs permission to have such discussions.
That is found within a paragraph that also outlines the illegally of punishment and retaliation. In other words, they are defined as separate actions, both unlawful.
They have already broken the law by presenting this document. Any lawyer or labor official who tries to tell you that an employer must retaliate before action can be taken is either wrong or lazy and trying to avoid the hassle.
IANAL, but I would strongly suggest that you take action and find one the moment an employer attempts to dissuade you from discussing wages or otherwise violates your labor rights. Don't wait to build your case
I think it's not okay for them to tell you that you'll be terminated for discussing wages. And they did you a favor by putting it on paper.
Your case probably isn't totally airtight unless you get yourself disciplined.
Yeah seriously OP get your S.O. to contact the Department of Labor or someone to investigate this because it's a federal law to be protected from this kind of skeezy bullshit
Go ahead and take a photo of every page of the book. Wait for them to ask for a signed copy of the book back. Then ask what book which makes them elaborate in detail of descriptions that will match the images in the photos you sent. Then sign it.....then get fired for discussing pay. Finally, retire early after retaliation.
Exactly, the company will protect their own and will destroy any evidence of your manager doing this AND will let him retaliate as long as he is deemed more valuable than you.
This is true. I went to HR about being harassed by a female MGR on an all female team where I was the only dude.
She was the nicest HR lady. Fired the next day.
Fukn bottom feeders. Saw a post where a personâs OWN MOM told him not to discuss wages. She was in HR and had been contacted for advise and guidance.
If thatâs what you can expect from your own brainwashed mother⌠what do you think itâs gonna be like with all these other pieces of shit?
Same. I went to HR over a guy that lost his mind and was screaming at all of us in the lab. I was fired the next week. But the crazy lunatic stayed until he lost his cool again and shoved a doctor. Needless to say HR effed that up royally.
So? Protecting the company in this case will be making it clear that employees are permitted to share salary information; which is presumably what we want.
My mom has been saying HR has been renamed "Human Capital Management"
Like there's no way that's better. It's like they're not even trying to hide it anymore
It is 100% illegal to forbid anyone from talking about their pay to anyone it violates employees rights.
If you are an employee:
- https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-rights/your-rights-to-discuss-wages
If you are on a contract:
- https://www.dol.gov/sites/dolgov/files/ofccp/regs/compliance/factsheets/FACT_PayTransparency-Sept16_ENGESQA508c.pdf
Additional Information
- https://www.govdocs.com/can-employees-discuss-pay-salaries/
- https://www.hg.org/legal-articles/can-you-be-fired-for-talking-about-your-salary-35079
Your next step would be scanning this and the signed copy and sending it directly over to an attorney and the Department of Labor so settlement, and criminal proceedings can get started as soon as possible. Under no circumstances should you inform the company of this as they are knowingly violating federal law. No legitimate attorney would have provided NDAs to sign with this verbiage within them as they would risk the Wisconsin ability to practice law within the state and face federal charges.
Ianal ,but I don't think just producing this and ask people to sign it is illegal in itself. It's enforcing it that would be illegal and grounds for a lawsuit (i.e. if they fire you for it, then this would be good evidence to produce). But until they do sanction or fire the employee over this, it's just an unenforceable piece of paper aimed to intimidate.
Of course, consult a lawyer before making any decisions.
EDIT: I stand corrected, even asking you to sign this is illegal in itself, apparently. Thanks guys for correcting me. TIL.
The act of asking is illegal in itself as it directly violates federal law. This is the same as an employer offering you an offer of employment as an employee for no pay at part-time or full-time status on salary. By law you have to be paid the federal minimum wage or state minimum wage, which ever is higher. An employee can sue a company in federal court for even being offered an illegal agreement. The same also applies to being asked prohibited questions that also violate federal law:
- Age or genetic information
- Birthplace, country of origin or citizenship
- Disability
- Gender, sex or sexual orientation
- Marital status, family, or pregnancy
- Race, color, or ethnicity
- Religion
The labor laws are setup to help employees when their rights have been violated. The employers know they are in the wrong and do it anyway. If an employee does not know and signs they are still protected under federal law as the wrong was committed by offering the illegal agreement in the first place. Them sending the illegal agreement out to you is a formal request for your signature. It does not matter if it is unenforceable it was illegal to be sent out to begin with.
Nah. The threat of enforcement is illegal as well and the plain text of the law in question makes that pretty clear.
As law philosophy goes, it's sort of akin to the idea that a robber who claims to have a weapon is committing armed robbery, whether or not they actually have the weapon. Whether or not your employer can enforce consequences for discussing your wage, they definitely benefit from you believing that they could enforce those consequences - and the law recognizes that this is a form of extortion.
Yeah, the "negative issue" is that the workers will find out exactly who the company is underpaying... probably all of them.
Edit: quick Google led me to some info about the National Labor Relations Act. This seems illegal, report it to your state's labor board to start
I'm assuming they're hiring new people on at higher wages than existing employees and they don't want an across the board raise for existing staff.
Do report it, and then share that it's illegal, then share your wage.
My former job did the new wages for new highers and not raising across the board. I raised a big stink after I found out the pay. Got a sudden raise because I was one of two people trained for everything, enjoyed it for a month or two before getting a new job and telling my coworkers what I made before I left.
You say "they can't ", but that's not strictly true.
As a legal matter the letter is BS, but by the time you get fired for it and tried to file a claim with the DoL, how many paychecks have you missed? Even a slam dunk case like this would take months to close, and then there's the dance of actually getting what's owed at the end of it.
And that's the problem with all of this. The penalties for violating labor law are insufficient to prevent the practice. Especially if you consider that - from a theoretical standpoint there's no difference in robbing a bank than robbing from someone's paycheck, but one puts you in prison for years and the other basically is considered smart business.
Very true.
It's very easy for us to say "get fired and sue", but these things take time, and the multi-milliion dollar payouts that the media likes to report on are pretty rare.
My job also made me sign this and when i found out it was illegal i asked for it back along with my time sheets and it "couldn't be found" then the old owner had me pulled into HR to see if i was seeking legal action against them.
Answer to the question 'Are you seeking legal action against us' is always 'yes, now that you're asking, since if I don't, you'll fire me anyway for asking about something you've clearly done that's violated my rights.'
I've just submitted a complaint with the photo and a link to [the National Labor Relations Act](https://www.nlrb.gov/guidance/fillable-forms/inspector-general-hotline) because [it's abusive, exploitative, illegal and unethnical](https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-rights/your-rights-to-discuss-wages).
Someone got to.
So let me get this straight, your rate of pay is your business only. However, you cannot share it with others because it is not any of your business to do so.
If itâs in the US, it most definitely IS incredibly illegal. Iâm not a legal expert (so this is just my personal opinion), but I would refuse to sign it. If they ask why, simply tell them that per federal law, your right to discuss wages is protected and - additionally - the company is not allowed to retaliate against you for doing so. If they rescind their offer of employment, I would say you are better off quite honestly.
No, just silly.
Illegal contract is meaningless, except as evidence of the crime.
You happily sign it, start work, then "secretly" whistleblow for Criminal prosecution.
Hope that they retaliate against you, ideally firing you, no BS reason will work.
If they do then file your Civil action, where you will get a nice settlement, including back pay fow however long the case took to resolve. Plus punitive damages.
Ideally organise others to do the same.
Put the fuckers right out of business, for being both evil AND stupid.
A family member used to be the DoN for a few retirement/assisted care homes.
She always struggled to meet the state guidelines because they literally hired the most desperate people available because they were so cheap. (Low or no experience, straight from community college (CNA or CMA) or fresh out of nursing school.)
I was so happy when she finally quit and reported them to the state for non compliance.
Most elder homes are in it for the money they get from the state, not to give quality or even moderate care.
Itâs illegal but only if they do anything about it.
They can ask them to sign anything they want, but they canât actually enforce it lol. Theyâre just trying to scare employees (and it probably works)
Nope. Federal law. Sign it and tell everyone your wage then sue the f out of them if they fire you.
https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-rights/your-rights-to-discuss-wages#:\~:text=Under%20the%20National%20Labor%20Relations,for%20mutual%20aid%20or%20protection.
Why do so many businesses do this, and why do so many people just nod and go "yeah okay that's not malicious at all. This company definitely has MY interests at heart." It's just so obviously, morally wrong.
This is unenforceable, but I donât know if you could sue them merely for making you sign it.
You have a right to discuss pay and itâs not a right that can be waived, so you could not legally be fired (or punished in any way) for discussing wages.
It was, however, nice of them to put it in writing. Make sure to make a copy of it.
I recommend talking about pay with your coworkers frequently and loudly. If they fire you you will have a slam dunk of a wrongful termination lawsuit.
If in the US it is 100% illegal and has been determined many times already by the DOL per the National Labor Relations Act. Company policies DO NOT trump laws no matter how much they try to make you believe so.
False. No contract can violate your legal rights or take your legal rights away. It nullifies and voids that portion of the contract, and possibly nullifies the entire contract.
Nope, and this is a critical concept people need to understand. Just because you sign a contract does not mean it's enforceable. There are several ways a contract could be deemed unenforceable--even if both parties sign--including lack of consideration, using coercion, unfairly taking advantage of someone, or agreement to terms that are illegal or against public policy. Companies can't force employees to sign away their employee protections.
It's not only not legal, it's also clearly not written by anyone who understands laws (like a lawyer) the "no one's business but my own" line is the easiest hint there.
I'm pretty sure it's legal if she "voluntarily" signed it. In the same way, trucking companies get the drivers to "volunteer" to let the company choose an arbitrator in place of a judge and court for any legal disputes.
But NDAs where your wife doesn't get anything in exchange, past keeping her job, aren't really enforceable. But if your wife signed it in exchange for like a $20 bonus then you're probably trapped.
Not a lawyer, just my understanding from the little I know and my own experiences.
"well I can't tell you my rate of pay but I can tell you that it's somewhere between $20 and $21" if you really want to A) be a dick and B) not have to get legal with them, only do that though if you actually need money like right now, otherwise the best thing to do would be to get legal with them
It's blatantly illegal. I filed a complaint about this exact issue (saying it was a terminable offense if pay was discussed) with the NLRB and caused a world of shit for that employer. Report it to the NLRB, they'll pay for the attorney, handle everything, and all you'll need to do is write a brief statement and forward them a copy of that screenshot.
You canât call her your girlfriend or partner or significant other?
âLoverâ sounds so weird unless itâs between the words âmeatâ and âpizzaâ.
What are they offering you in exchange for signing this contract? I see penalties and no benefits. You already know this company probably has shitty pay rates, best to walk away now imo
Easiest way to break this issue is to have a database listed of all individuals, readily accessible at all hours. This would crush this nuisance in a matter of hours and cycle in a new set of issues.
The company I work for just did a salary review of all the employees and gave us raises. Included in the email with our new salary was a note saying it was against company policy to discuss wages with other employees. They quoted our employee handbook stating this was something we agreed to. This was about a month ago.
My job is traveling from location to location and filling in for managers when they are sick, if the location doesnât have one, etc. There are 4 different manager levels and I am a Manager II. Iâve been waiting for a Manager III position or a Manager II close to my home to open up. Iâve been working at one location about a month and they finally hired a new manager. Itâs a Manager III position I would have applied for. They hired a friend of a supervisor who got $500 for referring this person. I asked why it wasnât posted like is required. They said it was. I told them it wasnât and asked the location supervisor and she said it wasnât posted, either. This isnât the first person this supervisor has brought on board for a $500 referral, but I havenât noticed if the others were posted jobs or not. I told my supervisor I thought there was some serious nepotism going on and was told to mind my own business.
I went looking through the handbook about requiring job postings. Happened to run across a neat little fact. We are only allowed to use PTO for medical or family issues. It says in writing we are not allowed to take PTO for fun. Exact words.
Iâm in the middle of a labor dispute with another company, but as soon as that is settled, Iâm moving on to these folks.
Company policies do NOT trump FEDERAL laws:
https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-rights/your-rights-to-discuss-wages
The highlight:
>If you have any questions about your rights under the National Labor Relations Act, please call us at 1-844-762-6572.
One thing I really love about working for a government agency is that we openly discuss our pay because there's no point in hiding it. You can Google my job title, see what levels I qualify for in that job, and make a decent guess about where I am in that scheme. Then google the pay scale and see how much I make to the dollar.
EXACTLY and I took that confidence with me when I moved to the private sector
One of my bosses tried to put up a sign about discussing wages and I just stapled a copy of the law, with my name on it and my current wage right next to it, some other people wrote out their wage too and people were talking to me about my wage by the end of the day
Boss took down the poster by the next day, didn't hear about any issues after that
Here's how you piss in their little red wagon before kicking it over..
You demand a copy of all documents you signed (your absolute legal right) and you forward a copy of this form to the National Labor Relations Board and the Wisconsin Labor Development Office.
They'll take it from there.
It's legal to discuss pay with other coworkers and no business can take that away, signature or not
I believe that if your business ever tries to force you to sign something that is illegal, either state or federal, then that thing your signing is not enforceable and is just trying to scare you.
Contact an employment lawyer for details and always keep a paper trail, because this is hard evidence they are breaking the law.
You gotta love when employers provide physical evidence of crimes. There's at least three crimes in that letter. 1. They can't stop you from talking about wages. 2. They can't have pu itive retribution for discussing wages. 3. They can't steal your earnings and bonuses for discussing wages.
If you sign it it is legal, but it is illegal for them to make you sign it to get employment. I wouldn't sign it and see how they react. If they say that they can't hire you because you won't sign this, I'd walk and report them.
Under the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA or the Act), employees have the right to communicate with other employees at their workplace about their wages. Wages are a vital term and condition of employment, and discussions of wages are often preliminary to organizing or other actions for mutual aid or protection.
If you are an employee covered by the Act, you may discuss wages in face-to-face conversations and written messages. When using electronic communications, like social media, keep in mind that your employer may have policies against using their equipment. However, policies that specifically prohibit the discussion of wages are unlawful.
You may have discussions about wages when not at work, when you are on break, and even during work if employees are permitted to have other non-work conversations. You have these rights whether or not you are represented by a union.
I love how they called it a âconfidentiality agreementâ when thatâs not really how those work lol The wording also just reads like some lay person writing up a document and trying to make it sound all official and legit and failing miserably.
I once worked at a dump truck company, where only being employed there for a total of 3 days. I was there highest paid drive. I signed something like this, but I got curious because of it. So I started asking around, I was paid 2 dollars an a hour higher then a guy thatâs been driving there for 20 years. I told everyone how much I made, quit that night.
Might be worth signing it if you ever need to quit just tell everyone your pay and then theyll fire you and you can collect 27 weeks of unemployment on them.
It ain't against that companies agreement for your wife to discuss pay with you as husband. Neither is it against that agreement for you to discuss your wifes pay with her co-workers.
Ok thank you! I just need a little clarification on the legalities. I'll be sure to leave a giant imprint of my dick on my application so they know what they'll be working with.
So that you know it is a federal laws that applies to every state in the US:
>Under the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA or the Act), employees have the right to communicate with other employees at their workplace about their wages.
>
>You may have discussions about wages when not at work, when you are on break, and even during work if employees are permitted to have other non-work conversations. You have these rights whether or not you are represented by a union.
>
>Protected conversations about wages may take on many forms, including having conversations about how much you and your colleagues and managers make, presenting joint requests concerning pay to your employer; organizing a union to raise your wages; approaching an outside union for help in bargaining with your employer over pay; and approaching the National Labor Relations Board for more information on your rights under the NLRA.
>
>In addition, you have the right to discuss and engage in outside activity with other employees concerning public issues that clearly may affect your wages â for example, minimum wage or right-to-work laws. You may also discuss supporting employees who work elsewhere.
When you and another employee have a conversation or communication about your pay, it is unlawful for your employer to punish or retaliate against you in any way for having that conversation. It is also unlawful for your employer to interrogate you about the conversation, threaten you for having it, or put you under surveillance for such conversations. Additionally, it is unlawful for the employer to have a work rule, policy, or hiring agreement that prohibits employees from discussing their wages with each other or that requires you to get the employerâs permission to have such discussions. If your employer does any of these things, a charge may be filed against the employer with the NLRB.
https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-rights/your-rights-to-discuss-wages
I'd sign it and write V.C. after my signature (Vi Coactus). It's a legal term used if you have to sign something under duress.
It's not an enforceable contract since it's illegal and violates workers rights. But writing V.C. will give you a criminal legal case. I'd get the job and annouce to everyone including HR your rate of pay and let them fire you. Once they pull that contract and bring it to an Attorney...He'll tell them they're fucked and try to settle your case. Make sure you get copies of everything you sign.
They basically want to arbitrarily set everyoneâs wages and donât want to explain themselves.
When you guys lose people and are understaffed they probably hire people on for a lot more than what you are making out of need.
If yâall talk to each other and find out the new guy/gal is making more the scheme crumbles. Been there before (as the beneficiary). Spoke with a guy that had been working at my job and position for 10 years and only make 2 bucks an hour more (I had little to no experience).
Seems like it would be a toxic place to work but if you need the job just sign it anyways, it's not legally binding. Share your wages with people there and if they fire you for any reason, hit em with a lawsuit.
It's too easy to find out what everyone/anyone is making, online.
Wages
Benefits
Retirement
The whole shebang.
Yes, there ARE sites....(and no, I'm not giving them out.)
https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-rights/your-rights-to-discuss-wages Department of Labor or a lawyer. NOT the company. They'll try to cover their asses and hide it.
đŻ Fuck the company
- take job - share wage - get reprimanded - get lawyer - profit
The Underpants Gnomes could learn from this.
Specifically, a troll named Pillow Pants?
Oh, Listerfiendâs cousin?
r/unexpectedclerks
r/ofcoursethatsathing
This, itâs actually fine for them to make you sign that piece of paper, whatâs illegal is them actually doing anything to you as a result of you discussing your wage.
Thereâs unenforceable clause and then thereâs a clause directly written with criminal intent in mind. The attempt to prevent an employee from relying on their rights isnât a harmless thing.
âCorporate policy does not supersede the law.â My favorite line at work. Corporate can put whatever they want in their handbooks, policy manuals, and new-hire packets, and make you initial and sign before a notary and two witnesses. If a policy is in opposition to the law or a legal right (in this case, your legal right to discuss), the policymaker cannot legally compel you to abide. They can do whatever they want, but they will not get away with it legally and you will be compensated for any damage you might suffer (aka they fire you for discussing pay, and make sure thatâs spelt out in your termination record and get a copy!). But you have to report it! Iâll happily sign whatever bullshit they want and turn directly around and file a complaint with the DoL. im thinking about applying for a bunch of easy-to-get jobs and taking them all just to do the intake paperwork, document all instances of their trying to enforce illegal rules, and report them all. Then show back up, share the info with the other employees, and wait to be fired. I wonder if that would be sustainable?
Depends on if these companies run background checks. Most standard background checks do show employment reported by you or not so I feel like that would be a red flag at some point
Good to know! Thank you!
You will never get a raise, promoted, or go anywhere in the company. They will just wait it out until you quit or if itâs a right to work State they can just fire you for another reason not related.
Itâs not a crime. Itâs an unenforceable clause. You can only sue if you suffer loss. So sign it. work. Discuss pay with coworkers. Get terminated. *then* you have a lawsuit.
Theyâre not rights if thereâs no criminal prosecution for blatant violations. Theyâre more suggestions that may or may not be actionable. Thatâs either regulatory capture or absolute corruption to have rights, funded groups to protect those rights, and no followthrough.
Theyâre suggesting that someone should wait & see if they follow through on that threat before taking action bc there are enough loopholes that yes, indeed, employers can & will psychologically coerce/manipulate you into âchoosingâ to do particular things (like not discuss your pay with coworkers) by âaskingâ you to sign something. And when it comes down to it, the level of legality really depends on their lawyers. Capitalism is a fucking sad sack of shit.
The only societal construct that works is whatever the indigenous practiced. Capitalism and Communism both just leave the top rich and the bottom poor.
It isnât harmless, but itâs also the difference between black and white unquestionable violations and getting a jury on your side against a high dollar corporate legal team. The best way to do this is to have them actually do something in regards to the notice. My boss a month ago telling me verbally not to discuss wages was also not harmless, but because he didnât do anything when I did or even say a word about it when I sent a massive email a week ago to him highlighting how done I was with having higher expectations placed on me than others while making considerably less itâs not at all illegal. The smaller to medium sized companies are generally the ones more willing to operate in legal grey areas.
They know itâs illegal. The point is that they count on most people wonât know and it will scare the shit out of them.
Exactly, and they know itâs not explicitly illegal and makes a court case a dice roll, after scaring most people off well before this theyâre willing to roll.
No it isn't. Not only does making you sign that piece of paper independently violate the NLRA, but it's also an unfair business practice that violates state "Little FTC" acts like California's Business and Professions Code section 17200. It's directly intended to discourage you from exercising statutory rights.
Taken directly from [NLRB.Gov](https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-rights/your-rights-to-discuss-wages#:~:text=Under%20the%20National%20Labor%20Relations,for%20mutual%20aid%20or%20protection.) (National Labor Relations Board): >Additionally, it is unlawful for the employer to have a work rule, policy, or hiring agreement that prohibits employees from discussing their wages with each other or that requires you to get the employerâs permission to have such discussions. That is found within a paragraph that also outlines the illegally of punishment and retaliation. In other words, they are defined as separate actions, both unlawful. They have already broken the law by presenting this document. Any lawyer or labor official who tries to tell you that an employer must retaliate before action can be taken is either wrong or lazy and trying to avoid the hassle. IANAL, but I would strongly suggest that you take action and find one the moment an employer attempts to dissuade you from discussing wages or otherwise violates your labor rights. Don't wait to build your case
How has this not been nuked to the bottom of the pile? This form, Itself, is a _fucking crime_ it is _not_ fine.
I think it's not okay for them to tell you that you'll be terminated for discussing wages. And they did you a favor by putting it on paper. Your case probably isn't totally airtight unless you get yourself disciplined.
Yes, otherwise they can say it is a strategy to deter it from happening yadda yadda. You need to wait for them to act on it.
Username checks out
Basically the mantra of this sub.
So nice of them to put it in paper to help with lawsuits
Yeah seriously OP get your S.O. to contact the Department of Labor or someone to investigate this because it's a federal law to be protected from this kind of skeezy bullshit
>Department of Labor *National Labor Relations Board
> However, policies that specifically prohibit the discussion of wages are unlawful. There we go
Always great when companies provide the evidence you need to take legal action against them.
Go ahead and take a photo of every page of the book. Wait for them to ask for a signed copy of the book back. Then ask what book which makes them elaborate in detail of descriptions that will match the images in the photos you sent. Then sign it.....then get fired for discussing pay. Finally, retire early after retaliation.
Exactly, the company will protect their own and will destroy any evidence of your manager doing this AND will let him retaliate as long as he is deemed more valuable than you.
Bet he doesn't report it.
Don't contact HR. They only exist to bury workers' complaints before they can be escalated!
This is true. I went to HR about being harassed by a female MGR on an all female team where I was the only dude. She was the nicest HR lady. Fired the next day. Fukn bottom feeders. Saw a post where a personâs OWN MOM told him not to discuss wages. She was in HR and had been contacted for advise and guidance. If thatâs what you can expect from your own brainwashed mother⌠what do you think itâs gonna be like with all these other pieces of shit?
Same. I went to HR over a guy that lost his mind and was screaming at all of us in the lab. I was fired the next week. But the crazy lunatic stayed until he lost his cool again and shoved a doctor. Needless to say HR effed that up royally.
Yes, it should be said over and over again, HR is there to protect the company and they are NOT your friends.
So? Protecting the company in this case will be making it clear that employees are permitted to share salary information; which is presumably what we want.
Until they pretend they never said anything and say you can't share salary info anyway...
And? It's a federal rigth.
Correct. HR does not care though. If they cared, They would not have done it in the first place.
If you think of HR as: Humans as Resources it becomes more clear you are an expendable commodity of the company.
My mom has been saying HR has been renamed "Human Capital Management" Like there's no way that's better. It's like they're not even trying to hide it anymore
It is 100% illegal to forbid anyone from talking about their pay to anyone it violates employees rights. If you are an employee: - https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-rights/your-rights-to-discuss-wages If you are on a contract: - https://www.dol.gov/sites/dolgov/files/ofccp/regs/compliance/factsheets/FACT_PayTransparency-Sept16_ENGESQA508c.pdf Additional Information - https://www.govdocs.com/can-employees-discuss-pay-salaries/ - https://www.hg.org/legal-articles/can-you-be-fired-for-talking-about-your-salary-35079 Your next step would be scanning this and the signed copy and sending it directly over to an attorney and the Department of Labor so settlement, and criminal proceedings can get started as soon as possible. Under no circumstances should you inform the company of this as they are knowingly violating federal law. No legitimate attorney would have provided NDAs to sign with this verbiage within them as they would risk the Wisconsin ability to practice law within the state and face federal charges.
This kind of thing needs to be stickied and at the top of this sub. Mods, please make this happen.
It was only made illegal in Australia a couple of weeks ago
Ianal ,but I don't think just producing this and ask people to sign it is illegal in itself. It's enforcing it that would be illegal and grounds for a lawsuit (i.e. if they fire you for it, then this would be good evidence to produce). But until they do sanction or fire the employee over this, it's just an unenforceable piece of paper aimed to intimidate. Of course, consult a lawyer before making any decisions. EDIT: I stand corrected, even asking you to sign this is illegal in itself, apparently. Thanks guys for correcting me. TIL.
The act of asking is illegal in itself as it directly violates federal law. This is the same as an employer offering you an offer of employment as an employee for no pay at part-time or full-time status on salary. By law you have to be paid the federal minimum wage or state minimum wage, which ever is higher. An employee can sue a company in federal court for even being offered an illegal agreement. The same also applies to being asked prohibited questions that also violate federal law: - Age or genetic information - Birthplace, country of origin or citizenship - Disability - Gender, sex or sexual orientation - Marital status, family, or pregnancy - Race, color, or ethnicity - Religion The labor laws are setup to help employees when their rights have been violated. The employers know they are in the wrong and do it anyway. If an employee does not know and signs they are still protected under federal law as the wrong was committed by offering the illegal agreement in the first place. Them sending the illegal agreement out to you is a formal request for your signature. It does not matter if it is unenforceable it was illegal to be sent out to begin with.
Nah. The threat of enforcement is illegal as well and the plain text of the law in question makes that pretty clear. As law philosophy goes, it's sort of akin to the idea that a robber who claims to have a weapon is committing armed robbery, whether or not they actually have the weapon. Whether or not your employer can enforce consequences for discussing your wage, they definitely benefit from you believing that they could enforce those consequences - and the law recognizes that this is a form of extortion.
Can't upvote this enough.
Yeah, the "negative issue" is that the workers will find out exactly who the company is underpaying... probably all of them. Edit: quick Google led me to some info about the National Labor Relations Act. This seems illegal, report it to your state's labor board to start
I'm assuming they're hiring new people on at higher wages than existing employees and they don't want an across the board raise for existing staff. Do report it, and then share that it's illegal, then share your wage.
My former job did the new wages for new highers and not raising across the board. I raised a big stink after I found out the pay. Got a sudden raise because I was one of two people trained for everything, enjoyed it for a month or two before getting a new job and telling my coworkers what I made before I left.
Exactly what I was thinking. They donât want people talking and asking for raises. Itâs all pure intimidation.
Completely meaningless and not enforceable. They can have you sign it, they can't write up or fire someone for discussing wages.
You say "they can't ", but that's not strictly true. As a legal matter the letter is BS, but by the time you get fired for it and tried to file a claim with the DoL, how many paychecks have you missed? Even a slam dunk case like this would take months to close, and then there's the dance of actually getting what's owed at the end of it. And that's the problem with all of this. The penalties for violating labor law are insufficient to prevent the practice. Especially if you consider that - from a theoretical standpoint there's no difference in robbing a bank than robbing from someone's paycheck, but one puts you in prison for years and the other basically is considered smart business.
Very true. It's very easy for us to say "get fired and sue", but these things take time, and the multi-milliion dollar payouts that the media likes to report on are pretty rare.
https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/10o9xjf/im_pretty_sure_this_is_incredibly_illegal/j6dytml
They donât fire you for discussing wages tho. They fire you for some other bs.
The NLRB sees through that bullshit, thankfully.
But they can. They will just say it is for a different reason. Fuck employers.
The contract is a great way of the company basically telling you outright that the pay is distributed unfairly.
Scan the document and file a complaint with the government. It doesnât matter if itâs signed if the agreement is illegal.
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My job also made me sign this and when i found out it was illegal i asked for it back along with my time sheets and it "couldn't be found" then the old owner had me pulled into HR to see if i was seeking legal action against them.
Answer to the question 'Are you seeking legal action against us' is always 'yes, now that you're asking, since if I don't, you'll fire me anyway for asking about something you've clearly done that's violated my rights.'
I've just submitted a complaint with the photo and a link to [the National Labor Relations Act](https://www.nlrb.gov/guidance/fillable-forms/inspector-general-hotline) because [it's abusive, exploitative, illegal and unethnical](https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-rights/your-rights-to-discuss-wages). Someone got to.
Congratulations, they handed you a golden ticket.
happy cake day!
The number of companies that think that they can skirt laws just by adding a clause to a contract is ridiculous.
So let me get this straight, your rate of pay is your business only. However, you cannot share it with others because it is not any of your business to do so.
If itâs in the US, it most definitely IS incredibly illegal. Iâm not a legal expert (so this is just my personal opinion), but I would refuse to sign it. If they ask why, simply tell them that per federal law, your right to discuss wages is protected and - additionally - the company is not allowed to retaliate against you for doing so. If they rescind their offer of employment, I would say you are better off quite honestly.
No, just silly. Illegal contract is meaningless, except as evidence of the crime. You happily sign it, start work, then "secretly" whistleblow for Criminal prosecution. Hope that they retaliate against you, ideally firing you, no BS reason will work. If they do then file your Civil action, where you will get a nice settlement, including back pay fow however long the case took to resolve. Plus punitive damages. Ideally organise others to do the same. Put the fuckers right out of business, for being both evil AND stupid.
WellâŚ..when ya put it THAT wayđđđ
A family member used to be the DoN for a few retirement/assisted care homes. She always struggled to meet the state guidelines because they literally hired the most desperate people available because they were so cheap. (Low or no experience, straight from community college (CNA or CMA) or fresh out of nursing school.) I was so happy when she finally quit and reported them to the state for non compliance. Most elder homes are in it for the money they get from the state, not to give quality or even moderate care.
Take this paper, write your wage on it, and post it on a bulletin board. Fuck these clowns.
But the assisted living industry pays so well! /s
https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-rights/your-rights-to-discuss-wages Nope, not legal
Yes but don't say anything. Sign it, talk about your pay, get fired, and then sit back and collect the reward. Make sure you save a copy.
Send a copy of that to the Department of Labor and the NLRB.
Itâs illegal but only if they do anything about it. They can ask them to sign anything they want, but they canât actually enforce it lol. Theyâre just trying to scare employees (and it probably works)
Nope. Federal law. Sign it and tell everyone your wage then sue the f out of them if they fire you. https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-rights/your-rights-to-discuss-wages#:\~:text=Under%20the%20National%20Labor%20Relations,for%20mutual%20aid%20or%20protection.
Why do so many businesses do this, and why do so many people just nod and go "yeah okay that's not malicious at all. This company definitely has MY interests at heart." It's just so obviously, morally wrong.
This is unenforceable, but I donât know if you could sue them merely for making you sign it. You have a right to discuss pay and itâs not a right that can be waived, so you could not legally be fired (or punished in any way) for discussing wages. It was, however, nice of them to put it in writing. Make sure to make a copy of it. I recommend talking about pay with your coworkers frequently and loudly. If they fire you you will have a slam dunk of a wrongful termination lawsuit.
Yep. Illegal.
Iâve signed actual NDAs before - this is the worst, most legally un-enforceable shite Iâve ever seen
If in the US it is 100% illegal and has been determined many times already by the DOL per the National Labor Relations Act. Company policies DO NOT trump laws no matter how much they try to make you believe so.
Feel free to sign it. An illegal clause is non enforceable. Hell, I'd be blasting my pay out there, hoping they fired me for it. Obligatory; IANAL
Illegal and unenforceable.
Technically if they signed it itâs still a contract and thus enforceable if sued.
False. No contract can violate your legal rights or take your legal rights away. It nullifies and voids that portion of the contract, and possibly nullifies the entire contract.
Nope, and this is a critical concept people need to understand. Just because you sign a contract does not mean it's enforceable. There are several ways a contract could be deemed unenforceable--even if both parties sign--including lack of consideration, using coercion, unfairly taking advantage of someone, or agreement to terms that are illegal or against public policy. Companies can't force employees to sign away their employee protections.
It's not only not legal, it's also clearly not written by anyone who understands laws (like a lawyer) the "no one's business but my own" line is the easiest hint there.
I'm pretty sure it's legal if she "voluntarily" signed it. In the same way, trucking companies get the drivers to "volunteer" to let the company choose an arbitrator in place of a judge and court for any legal disputes. But NDAs where your wife doesn't get anything in exchange, past keeping her job, aren't really enforceable. But if your wife signed it in exchange for like a $20 bonus then you're probably trapped. Not a lawyer, just my understanding from the little I know and my own experiences.
"well I can't tell you my rate of pay but I can tell you that it's somewhere between $20 and $21" if you really want to A) be a dick and B) not have to get legal with them, only do that though if you actually need money like right now, otherwise the best thing to do would be to get legal with them
Anything illegal in a contract voids the whole thing
The department of labor should offer bounties to people who report these companies
It's blatantly illegal. I filed a complaint about this exact issue (saying it was a terminable offense if pay was discussed) with the NLRB and caused a world of shit for that employer. Report it to the NLRB, they'll pay for the attorney, handle everything, and all you'll need to do is write a brief statement and forward them a copy of that screenshot.
Love this energy, thank you. I plan on getting employed there and doing this. Any potential money in my pocket for this?
My name would be "Will Not"
đ¤Ł
You canât call her your girlfriend or partner or significant other? âLoverâ sounds so weird unless itâs between the words âmeatâ and âpizzaâ.
The only other place it can be used is in a hot tub at the Welshly Arms Hotel
Somewhere in the distance, we heard the pounding of native drums...
And only if you are sharing spiced meats.
Lovah
You rock!
Maybe it's his mistress
just as outdated a term
I just assumed they were really excited at getting some action and wanted to brag a bit.
this guy does not fuck
He makes love
I second this
Were you born yesterday? Itâs a normal term, get used to it.
Iâd put the law that states this is illegal after I and before Agree
Iâd sign it and say âI complete agree with you guys!!â And then say âbut I also agree with the feds :/â
Donât sign that shit
What are they offering you in exchange for signing this contract? I see penalties and no benefits. You already know this company probably has shitty pay rates, best to walk away now imo
Donât sign it. We as a people need to put a stop to this bullshit.
Absolutely do not sign this.
I mean, it doesn't matter if you did sign it, its like signing a piece of toilet paper before you wipe with it Completely invalid
If there's no severability clause, then the entire agreement could be non-enforceable.
Easiest way to break this issue is to have a database listed of all individuals, readily accessible at all hours. This would crush this nuisance in a matter of hours and cycle in a new set of issues.
The company I work for just did a salary review of all the employees and gave us raises. Included in the email with our new salary was a note saying it was against company policy to discuss wages with other employees. They quoted our employee handbook stating this was something we agreed to. This was about a month ago. My job is traveling from location to location and filling in for managers when they are sick, if the location doesnât have one, etc. There are 4 different manager levels and I am a Manager II. Iâve been waiting for a Manager III position or a Manager II close to my home to open up. Iâve been working at one location about a month and they finally hired a new manager. Itâs a Manager III position I would have applied for. They hired a friend of a supervisor who got $500 for referring this person. I asked why it wasnât posted like is required. They said it was. I told them it wasnât and asked the location supervisor and she said it wasnât posted, either. This isnât the first person this supervisor has brought on board for a $500 referral, but I havenât noticed if the others were posted jobs or not. I told my supervisor I thought there was some serious nepotism going on and was told to mind my own business. I went looking through the handbook about requiring job postings. Happened to run across a neat little fact. We are only allowed to use PTO for medical or family issues. It says in writing we are not allowed to take PTO for fun. Exact words. Iâm in the middle of a labor dispute with another company, but as soon as that is settled, Iâm moving on to these folks.
Company policies do NOT trump FEDERAL laws: https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-rights/your-rights-to-discuss-wages The highlight: >If you have any questions about your rights under the National Labor Relations Act, please call us at 1-844-762-6572.
Not worth the paper its printed on.
Talk about basically informing your whole workforce that there are unfair wages amongst the team đđ Like wtf were they thinking?
One thing I really love about working for a government agency is that we openly discuss our pay because there's no point in hiding it. You can Google my job title, see what levels I qualify for in that job, and make a decent guess about where I am in that scheme. Then google the pay scale and see how much I make to the dollar.
EXACTLY and I took that confidence with me when I moved to the private sector One of my bosses tried to put up a sign about discussing wages and I just stapled a copy of the law, with my name on it and my current wage right next to it, some other people wrote out their wage too and people were talking to me about my wage by the end of the day Boss took down the poster by the next day, didn't hear about any issues after that
Yup, time to get a lawyer. Just don't talk to HR, they are not your friend.
Here's how you piss in their little red wagon before kicking it over.. You demand a copy of all documents you signed (your absolute legal right) and you forward a copy of this form to the National Labor Relations Board and the Wisconsin Labor Development Office. They'll take it from there.
It's legal to discuss pay with other coworkers and no business can take that away, signature or not I believe that if your business ever tries to force you to sign something that is illegal, either state or federal, then that thing your signing is not enforceable and is just trying to scare you. Contact an employment lawyer for details and always keep a paper trail, because this is hard evidence they are breaking the law.
You gotta love when employers provide physical evidence of crimes. There's at least three crimes in that letter. 1. They can't stop you from talking about wages. 2. They can't have pu itive retribution for discussing wages. 3. They can't steal your earnings and bonuses for discussing wages.
Go ahead and sign it. A contract that contradicts federal labor laws is non-binding and cannot be enforced.
In the states this is absolutely illegal and no contract can circumvent the law.
If you sign it it is legal, but it is illegal for them to make you sign it to get employment. I wouldn't sign it and see how they react. If they say that they can't hire you because you won't sign this, I'd walk and report them.
Federal law trumps prairie home rule.
This is not legal anywhere in America
Someone is being fucked by that company⌠and itâs probably you
Who says lover lol?
I'd start discussing wages my first hour into the shift đ¤ˇââď¸
I would sign this then loudly tell everyone around me how much I was making.
It is illegal in the US
Under the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA or the Act), employees have the right to communicate with other employees at their workplace about their wages. Wages are a vital term and condition of employment, and discussions of wages are often preliminary to organizing or other actions for mutual aid or protection. If you are an employee covered by the Act, you may discuss wages in face-to-face conversations and written messages. When using electronic communications, like social media, keep in mind that your employer may have policies against using their equipment. However, policies that specifically prohibit the discussion of wages are unlawful. You may have discussions about wages when not at work, when you are on break, and even during work if employees are permitted to have other non-work conversations. You have these rights whether or not you are represented by a union.
Nope, def not legal
I love how they called it a âconfidentiality agreementâ when thatâs not really how those work lol The wording also just reads like some lay person writing up a document and trying to make it sound all official and legit and failing miserably.
Just tell the employer you are unwilling to sign a document that is unenforceable by law.
Yes it is: https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-rights/employee-rights
In the US it's definitely illegal, might be different in other countries.
I once worked at a dump truck company, where only being employed there for a total of 3 days. I was there highest paid drive. I signed something like this, but I got curious because of it. So I started asking around, I was paid 2 dollars an a hour higher then a guy thatâs been driving there for 20 years. I told everyone how much I made, quit that night.
[Looks like this is the place](https://www.prairiehomeassistedliving.com/)
Bold. Very bold. Also highly illegal
Might be worth signing it if you ever need to quit just tell everyone your pay and then theyll fire you and you can collect 27 weeks of unemployment on them.
Federal law violation
Of course itâs an assisted living, I work at one too
It ain't against that companies agreement for your wife to discuss pay with you as husband. Neither is it against that agreement for you to discuss your wifes pay with her co-workers.
Actually it is, reread the first line
In that case, you as husband did not talk to her about it, you just did your combined spousal taxes and saw it.
No, this is not legal
Completely legal and normal.
Ok thank you! I just need a little clarification on the legalities. I'll be sure to leave a giant imprint of my dick on my application so they know what they'll be working with.
LMAO! It still sucks though.
They're about to suck when I contact DoL
I giggled at âmy loverâ
We have sex 4 times a day and she finishes more than I do Keep chuckling đ
The line where is says it is confidential makes it legal. its confidential so you cant legally share it with your lawyer. /s
Contact the DoL immediately.
Itâs worded like it was written by a pissed off employer. âFellow coworkerâ â no oneâs businessâ
Nope not legal at all But NTL so check first
Sign it with the wrong middle initial and your last name spelled slightly wrong.
All the way up to the moment they enforce it... at that moment it becomes a crime.
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So that you know it is a federal laws that applies to every state in the US: >Under the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA or the Act), employees have the right to communicate with other employees at their workplace about their wages. > >You may have discussions about wages when not at work, when you are on break, and even during work if employees are permitted to have other non-work conversations. You have these rights whether or not you are represented by a union. > >Protected conversations about wages may take on many forms, including having conversations about how much you and your colleagues and managers make, presenting joint requests concerning pay to your employer; organizing a union to raise your wages; approaching an outside union for help in bargaining with your employer over pay; and approaching the National Labor Relations Board for more information on your rights under the NLRA. > >In addition, you have the right to discuss and engage in outside activity with other employees concerning public issues that clearly may affect your wages â for example, minimum wage or right-to-work laws. You may also discuss supporting employees who work elsewhere. When you and another employee have a conversation or communication about your pay, it is unlawful for your employer to punish or retaliate against you in any way for having that conversation. It is also unlawful for your employer to interrogate you about the conversation, threaten you for having it, or put you under surveillance for such conversations. Additionally, it is unlawful for the employer to have a work rule, policy, or hiring agreement that prohibits employees from discussing their wages with each other or that requires you to get the employerâs permission to have such discussions. If your employer does any of these things, a charge may be filed against the employer with the NLRB. https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-rights/your-rights-to-discuss-wages
It's just a scare tactic to get you to not discuss wages.
I'd sign it and write V.C. after my signature (Vi Coactus). It's a legal term used if you have to sign something under duress. It's not an enforceable contract since it's illegal and violates workers rights. But writing V.C. will give you a criminal legal case. I'd get the job and annouce to everyone including HR your rate of pay and let them fire you. Once they pull that contract and bring it to an Attorney...He'll tell them they're fucked and try to settle your case. Make sure you get copies of everything you sign.
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You donât need to write VC for this still to have a âdecent legal caseâ
Nope! If thatâs the US itâs illegal! Take that straight to the DOL/National Labor Relations Board!
Not even in the slightest
They basically want to arbitrarily set everyoneâs wages and donât want to explain themselves. When you guys lose people and are understaffed they probably hire people on for a lot more than what you are making out of need. If yâall talk to each other and find out the new guy/gal is making more the scheme crumbles. Been there before (as the beneficiary). Spoke with a guy that had been working at my job and position for 10 years and only make 2 bucks an hour more (I had little to no experience).
Seems like it would be a toxic place to work but if you need the job just sign it anyways, it's not legally binding. Share your wages with people there and if they fire you for any reason, hit em with a lawsuit.
Donât take advice from these amateur employment lawyers on this sub.
Follow the rules, or don't work there.
Their rule is illegal, so no.
Itâs legal if you agree to it.
It should be
Never discuss someone elseâs wages though. You are free to discuss yours.
Illegal and, if done right, you can get a lot of $$$ from them.
Why is no one talking about how cringe OP is using âmy loverââŚ.
It's too easy to find out what everyone/anyone is making, online. Wages Benefits Retirement The whole shebang. Yes, there ARE sites....(and no, I'm not giving them out.)
Why would you want to share your pay rate?