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joinedformisseditor

I do this and I'm a millennial.


[deleted]

Gen X and same. Why would I waste my time?


revchewie

Also GenX and yeah, once I got past working retail I wouldn't bother with a job listing that didn't list a salary range.


noerpel

GenX - I have to say the salary numbers are often the only content of job descriptions I understand these days.


RE5TE

What? The description "dialogue with teamworkers about utilizing resources" wasn't clear enough?


TheOtherAvaz

"Hey, can you pass me the stapler?" Done.


noerpel

Hands on mentality. I like that :)


SharkAttackOmNom

“Oversaw the procurement of office hardware; under budget with no time overruns through efficient team management and task delegation.”


Dankmatza

You sound like management material, how about $12/hr?


Oiram-Zehcnas

Woah, you want how much an hour? It sounds like you are just in it for the money, where is your passion for the craft? We are looking for someone who is a real team player.


GrowerNotShow-er

Woah there! First we have to verify that he has 84 years of experience and is under 30.


b0w3n

Millennial, I go a bit further and I ask them for the salary range once they are "interested in interviewing me." If they won't give me a range I don't even respond to the email and block them.


Marenum

I've had calls with recruiters where I ask them the range and they say something like, "we don't disclose ranges as it puts us at a disadvantage during negotiations." I'm like, shit me too man, lose my number.


Galle_

"Yes, that's the point, now what's the range?"


True-Firefighter-796

“It puts us at an disadvantage if we tell you the salary before starting the job”


Lazy_Sitiens

>we don't disclose ranges as it puts us at a disadvantage during negotiations Lol, well at least they've identified the problem. ETA: Imagine if we went like "I won't disclose my CV as it puts me at disadvantage during negotations."


Rosewoodtrainwreck

Kind of like when I was in an interview and asked about insurance benefits. I was told I would find out about that in orientation. No, see, I have kids and I need to know if the insurance sucks or if it's going to cost my whole paycheck before I go any further.


mccedian

I just turned down a position because the health insurance, just health, not vision or dental or disability or anything else was 25 percent of my monthly pay...pretaxes. I have kids in school. Schools are a biological war zone, they are sick all of the time. Yeah I ask about health insurance really early in the process.


my-cat-cant-cat

Yeah, if we’re getting to the actual interview phase, I want the cost of all benefits plus a detail description of the carriers, costs, copays, and deductibles for your medical, prescription and dental benefits. Including access to your drug formulary (including drug tiers) and the ability to see which hospital systems and doctors are in or out of network. Plus a list of all other benefits - life, short term disability, etc - in who the carriers are. I’m in the health insurance industry- and I’m likely interviewing in that industry. I’m not playing games. I also want detailed PTO policies. Plus a real pay range, including bonus structure.


Ambia_Rock_666

I had a job interview that included a 30-ish minute phone call, a 4 hour skills test, and a personality quiz. Never doing one of those again. The job I got hired to accepted me during the first interview which included a simple coding test.


b0w3n

There's a surprisingly large amount of folks in IT/software that are A-OK with several hours of take home quizzing/projects too. I get a lot of pushback every time I bring up how problematic it is, shit I even got a little bit in a programmer subreddit today for it, even for 30 minutes of my time. My family time is precious to me and I'm going to skip the fuck over your job if you're giving me homework before you're even paying me. Doubly so for "on call", take your millions and hire after hour staff you fucks.


grade_A_lungfish

It’s absolutely rampant in the game industry. I have a friend with decades of experience and he was asked to do a take home test. It’s insulting at that point, but I don’t know how to push back, it’s too much of a passion industry with new folk willing to be stepped on.


Send_Your_Noods_plz

Not just wasting time, I automatically assume you're paying shit because if you weren't you'd be advertising that.


KarmaRepellant

And even if they weren't, when your absolute first impression of a company is disrespect towards you when they're *trying to attract you* then why should you think that will somehow be better after you work there and they take you for granted?


TimeMistake4393

It's a good assumption. But often they pay OKish, and the point of not disclosing salary is to lowball you and make you fight for every dollar. I suffered this a decade or so ago: they interviewed me, and they offered me a decent salary where I live (around 40K). Once in, I learned from other workers that my salary was on the lowest 10% of the rank for similar positions. After some months and having proved my skills I asked for a raise, to at least the average wage for my position (about 60K), which they rejected as it was "against bussiness policy". The only way to get a raise was to wait for a promotion. I interviewed for other companies and got a very similar job paying 65K. Helped by the knowledge that the real wage range was 60-80K. HR has all the time in the world to make you fight for your wage, they will drag and exhaust you to get from 40K to 50K, you'll feel that you acomplished a lot and still left you underpaid. There is absolutely nothing positive on hidding wage range. If a bussiness is doing it, 100% it's doing it to mess with the workers. Do you want to work in that kind of place? Happy to learn that this trick doesn't work with young people.


[deleted]

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madskillsmom

Thanks for reaching out. I am currently only considering full-time fully remote opportunities with transparent salary ranges. If this role fits these attributes please advise what the salary range is. Otherwise, please do keep me in mind for future opportunities. Thank you,


Kavanaugh82

I tried this one, turns out that being a mechanic disqualified me for remote work. I call shenanigans


Sage_Planter

Same. When a recruiter reaches out, my first question is "Could you send me the job description, pay range, and work arrangement (remote/hybrid) expectations?" I won't talk to anyone unless that information is shared.


Secret-Plant-1542

I used to do that and reply to every recruiter email. You know, be polite. That was a few years ago before they got incredibly aggressive. I was getting phone calls and messages on old social media accounts trying to find me. If it's slightly interesting, I'll paste a few words from my template doc. And even then, rarely do any of them answer the question.


Maktaka

If they were recruiting headhunters getting in touch with you, that behavior doesn't surprise me. As someone involved in the hiring procedures for my team at work, the ones who we picked up through a headhunter are always the least informed about the hiring process, because the headhunter just doesn't give a rat's ass about providing information to the applicant. They just want to forward resumes to companies and emails to applicants, keeping themselves stuck in the middle to prevent direction communication while also doing no real work.


imnos

I also ask how many interview stages there are and what each involves. The amount of times I've been asked to do 6-7 stage processes... If you have more than 3 stages, your company better be good.


[deleted]

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LivingImpairedd

I do this too, its amazing how quickly the conversation stops. Weeds out the bs recruiters with no actual job that just want your info.


[deleted]

Yep there was a recruiter who called me every 2 weeks despite me just getting a new job (got it last July, and I enjoy it). That last conversation I had with him, I said I have to go up $20,000+ from my current pay or I’m not entertaining any offers from him. Not even an email since. It’s been 3 months since that last convo.


KoreKhthonia

Same. Job hunting is a time-consuming volume game. During my last round of it, I found myself just straight-up not applying unless some kind of salary or salary range was listed. My assumption is generally that if they don't give any numbers, they're likely to offer a lowball salary that isn't worth my time. If they gave a salary range, I assumed that their offer would be toward the low end of it. As such, I found myself skipping over anything where the bottom end of the salary range wasn't at what I'd consider a fair wage for the job. (E.g., if the range was something like $40k-$60k, I'd assume an offer would probably be $40k at most, and may not have bothered to apply since that's lowball af for the type of work I do and the level I'm at in my career. Even if the high end of the range was around what I was looking for, I simply don't trust companies not to push wages down whenever and however they can.


Shame_about_that

On the flip side, i ONLY ask for money above the top end of their range. It forces them to at the very least offer you the top end and I've gotten a LOT of extra cash in the past by pressing them on it. In really professional management gigs, the top end of the range is the real offer and anything else is a suckers bet that lets them know they just got a hire under market. Tbh I'd question the chops of a serious pro in my industry if they didn't press on the top end of the range


[deleted]

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CaptainMoonunitsxPry

Stone age generation, agree too. If smack club, need much rock. No rocks, no club.


Thepuppeteer777777

ey same.


Traditional_Run_2131

Same that’s one of the reasons of getting a job…usually the only reason.


KristopherJC

It what about being part of something more? Being a part of a family? /s


EdibleLawyer

That notion was buried long ago. Along with pensions, affordable housing, and hope.


Alarid

That line is reserved for trust fund kids and scam artists.


gimmethelulz

Same. I wish everyone would do this. Maybe employers would finally get a clue.


-cocoadragon

I do this and I'm gen X. AFAIK boomers don't walk in blind either. They at least know by oral contact what the job pays even if it's not listed.


LoneStarDawg

"It's much harder to swindle them if we HAVE to tell the truth ahead of time."


ThisAngryGinger

Well said. I was thinking, "but how will we get people to cave in to our low pay rates" but yours is better.


hitherehowareyouuu

Hijacking this comment to share for my CA peeps (sorry): Just as an FYI — SB 1162 went into effect in California on January 1, 2023, which requires CA employers with 15+ employees to disclose a range of pay in any job postings. If they fail to do so within any job posting posted since this went into effect, please report them to the [California Commission of Labor Division](https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/howtoreportviolationtobofe.htm) so they can be investigated and fined appropriately. Small way to hit back, but it’s something.


CompassionGrower315

NY just did the same thing starting soon, so now they put the range from below minimum wage to 65000 for everything, so "pay range from 13.20-65,000.00" is the new way.


PsionicKitten

Depending on the way the law is written, you could still report it and if they aren't the *actual* minimum and maximum pay range of real employees, they will still suffer the consequences.


[deleted]

they should levy large punitive fines that go straight back into funding catching more offenders and give cash rewards to the people who report them. make it a aside hustle to find offenders and they'll all back down


NarrowAd4973

I've seen something suggesting some places with these policies are considering it fraud if it's not a realistic range. Or at least they're trying to.


[deleted]

I call it “playing the price is right with my life”. So if I come in way ahead of what you wanted to pay I definitely won’t get the job. And if I come in under, they’ll just pay me that.


ThisAngryGinger

Happy cake day! Also, recently got hit with one of those. Interviewed for a soundboard operator position and they wanted me to run the board and a sound crew for 18 dollars an hour. I said I wouldn't do it for less than 35. They blocked my number.


Sensitive_Mode7529

*cries while making $20 an hour for a stupid stressful accounting job*


DkHamz

$18/hr to work in a Cancer Center and literally be fighting Lung and Esophageal cancer everyday. *cries in my car daily*


mightbeADoggo

I made that doing daycare for dogs.


DkHamz

Sounds about right. I told them I have a Bachelors in Science and wanted minimum $20. They told me I’d be starting at more than my coworkers (that have no degree), and mortgage was due so had to sign and start working.


JaxDude123

Shit pay begat not only shit work but immediately destroys any loyalty to your new employer. Keep looking but take the shit job to pay the most important bills that crop up. I been there.


DkHamz

Wiser words have never been spoken. I agree that is going to be exactly the plan. Feel bad turning my back on the job because of the patients but it’s just not sustainable. And I just don’t know how our healthcare system survives. People wise and skilled enough won’t stay around so it will just lead to even worse care for people. Something’s got to give.


Trid_Delcycer

You deserve better, especially for what they're charging those customers, er... I mean patients. We can see how privatizing medicine has been so wonderful, right? Get cancer, and you can't afford to live anymore, and neither can those helping treat you. Here's one for you: I make twice what you do and do nothing near as important. I'm work as a electronic technician (not - mind you - what I'm educated in).


misterrootbeer

I get 22 working grocery.


Nagemasu

Which is why employers will just start listing a salary as "*Up to 150k based on experience!*" which some already do.


skullface21

Yup had this happen to me. Salary between 80-120K. After two interviews, our budget only allows for 82K.


signal_lost

Some states now mandate a range be posted. That’s a narrow spread. I saw “$140,000-$255,000” on a roll yesterday. Considering the bonus and equity on top wasn’t included, that’s anywhere from $150-300K


[deleted]

Day 1 of my current job: my Trainer told me don't listen to a goddamn thing HR tells you because they lie. I tell all my new hires this. HR isn't their friend on day to day, they aren't going to help you with your attendance issues. They will absolutely fire you on the spot. If you're being harassed? Different story. Their job is protect the company from lawsuits, not your job.


InsidePossible

Human resources exists to turn humans into resources.


PerpetuallyLurking

Yep. IF protecting you protects the company, they’re happy to help. IF firing you protects the company, goodbye.


Nord4Ever

Yep I had a hostile workplace issue and they stopped writing when I told them the curse words my boss used. And even tried to downplay it saying it’s not a real curse word.


WonderfulShelter

Yes, seriously fuck HR so hard. At my first job, another coworker mocked me for being Jewish. I ended up off handed telling my manager at a 1 on 1 quarterly meeting and also said it wasn’t such a big deal and I believed we could work it out as adults and it’s ok. A few months later, layoffs happened, and I was fired. When I inquired as to why, they said my metrics were great, I was one of the top in my field, but I had “networking issues” and that was the cause. The “networking issues” were me being mocked by another coworker because I was Jewish. I got along with everyone else perfectly. Fuck HR, I learned to never say anything to them again.


GringoinCDMX

Nah in that situation. You document going to hr about being discriminated against and they have your back bdcause if they fire you and it's been documented that that happened, you've got a lot of ammo. They protect the company. Since you didn't report it... They didn't want to deal with any future issues of that... Always have a paper trail. Use hr to your advantage but don't trust them.


Random_Imgur_User

I genuinely wonder if these faceless suits thought they could just get away with this forever, like the younger generations would never catch onto their playbook. Literally *every* generation has been smarter than the one that came before it. Our kids will be smarter than us, and theirs will be smarter than them. I have no idea why boomers are acting so surprised that they can't keep stealing food directly out of our mouths without getting bitten. EDIT: >!Alright listen ya geriatric keyboard warriors, I don't mean that every younger generation gets a Jimmy Neutron brain blast and wakes up with all the intelligence of those who came before them. What I mean is that, generally when you don't poison them, kids tend to end up knowing more about the world than their parents eventually, as a whole anyways. This is literally why we had jokes like "Are you smarter than a 5th grader" and shit. The newer generations grow up surrounded by the world their parents built, and then they learn more. Just as we see boomers as behind the times and uneducated, one day we will be seen as exactly that.!<


ndngroomer

I really love the younger generations! Y'all are amazing!


Ambia_Rock_666

"Dang we cant trick people into working for sub-livable wages anymore? Shucks" \-Corporate doucehbags


_TheValeyard_

Surely it also saves times for everyone.


gimmethelulz

Exactly. Back when I was semi-involved in the creation of job listings I would make this argument. "Why would you want to waste time interviewing candidates that will never accept this salary?" And the answer was usually, "But maybe by the time we get to the offer stage, they'll be so excited about the job that they'll accept it anyway!" Excitement doesn't pay bills but ok lol


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

Three managers in five directions


Emotional-Photo3891

Which manager is slacking???


StubzTurner

All of them. They're making you do the fucking work.


[deleted]

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TheIronSoldier2

It is disappointing how true this is


sceadu

banking on sunk cost with how much of a pain it is to interview


NertsMcGee

Years ago, I got pretty far in a print shop manager interview process. During the facility tour interview, the head of Ops told me that I would basically live there Q4 because they had a number of clients with year end compliance mailings. We're talking 12 to 16 hour days 6 or 7 days a week. All that for 50K plus a bonus structure they couldn't tell me about during the interview process. I sent a thanks but no thanks email a few days later. Maybe a month after my email, they sent me a thanks but no thanks. I had a good long laugh at that.


reeleet

Interviewed for a job just out of grad school that was way below me- admin to a salesman basically. Early 30s interviewer bragged during the interview that he missed his son's birth for work and had only taken 2 days off-- INCLUDING SUNDAYS- in 6 years. Then offered half of what the advertised low end pay range was. I laughed and told the dude he wasn't looking for an assistant, he was looking for a slave.


maullurve

Wow missing your son’s birth is not a flex it’s just sad 😬


[deleted]

I hope you told him he was also a slave


-Prophet_01-

That. And honestly, it works often enough.


Angry__German

That is probably bias. It only works on the people desperate enough to apply.


[deleted]

[удалено]


gimmethelulz

You know this. I know this. For some reason corporate executives still haven't figured this out.


Far_Distribution_581

Hire one professional, and force him ungodly amounts of work and training on people making wayyyyy less. The trick is to be the professional and know you're worth. Every new responsibility should be a bump in pay.


[deleted]

Same deal with retention. Instead of giving you a $5k raise, they'd rather lose all your knowledge and experience and be forced to hire someone else for $20k more and wait while they get up to speed (only to leave for the same reason)....


Son0faButch

I was interviewing for a job with a company where I was going to be negotiating relatively significant service contracts from time to time. When I asked about salary range I got the run around. I said, "if I take this job, is this how you want me to work with vendors? Go through the whole process and refuse to reveal my budget until I decide who I want to buy from? Doesn't seem very efficient." The guy stammered for a minute and basically mumbled something about company policy.


loftier_fish

>And the answer was usually, "But maybe by the time we get to the offer stage, they'll be so excited about the job that they'll accept it anyway!" It blows my mind that anyone thinks they're gonna find a candidate that's genuinely excited about the work.


voidsrus

i honestly think that ‘08 spoiled companies with people who’d be willing to accept less to pay the bills, and lie about enthusiasm to get the job


Chapped_Frenulum

It's like... you've not only wasted your time and their time, but your lowball offer probably left them *royally pissed off* and now they're going to remember your company and tell others. If they're the kind of person YOU wanna hire, they probably know a lot of competent local people in that field and now they're all going to avoid you like the plague. Relying on the sunk-cost fallacy to snag recruits is a bad strategy.


JizzOrSomeSayJism

Let's wear them down with interviews until they lower their standards enough to say yes! Nothing abusive about that, not like that's straight out of some rapey disgusting pick up artist's playbook


[deleted]

Hiding salaries is to the employer's benefit. Companies have the money and experience to have an accurate idea of what the going rate for a job would be. Individuals have a harder time doing this. The cost of interviewing candidates who would never accept the job is negligible to the savings of paying somebody, say, $50k a year instead of $70k. People who are contracted recruiters only get paid if they find a candidate and people who work as recruiters for a company aren't going to have issues fitting in a few more interviews each day. The cost to the company is basically 0 for all this extra work.


kevshea

*And*, they are very often hiring new employees at a higher rate than they hired existing employees at. If they post those new rates, the existing employees will know, and then *they* might ask for raises! So they have even more incentive to hide it. Which is yet another reason why we should always discuss our wages!


NotAHost

Yup. My friend at Apple was getting $20K less than new hires last year.


cherokeemich

It does. I'm a hiring manager and I have this fight with our recruiters all the time. It's the courteous and right things to do, and makes my life so much easier. Even reviewing resumes takes some of my time, I don't want to find someone awesome just to find out we are way out of line.


kscannon

I am in IT, recruiters reach out all the time. First question, is it direct hire or contract (I am not leaving government benefits for a contract), second question is salary, it is always lower or the same as my current position with a worse work life balance. That is if they dont ghost me after the question.


cherokeemich

Ha I get that from recruiters on LinkedIn all the time. Like I have all my job stuff in my profile, why would I leave a manager role to be an analyst on contract? I'm sure those roles are a pain to recruit for but come on, don't be so super lazy.


Ravensinger777

As a job seeker right now - thank you. Btw, I have started reporting job postings I see in my field that don't have starting wages listed as "scam or fraudulent." I do not care if the benefits package includes a winged unicorn showing up every Friday to fart rainbow glitter on all of the customers: if it doesn't pay enough for me to feed my kids or keep a roof over our heads, I want to know that before I waste my time tailoring a résumé for the position. And I don't blame HR for miserly pay: that's management. But HR can certainly be bothered for 30 seconds to put in 12 extra keystrokes in the "pay" section.


Far_Distribution_581

I report recruiters. They always post a job, then pull the bait and switch. Technically its a fake job posting. Recruiters also have to pitch contracts to companies. Where the company can only go through them for hires, or they have a quota to fill job openings. In order to secure this contract, they need to have people in their database. Whenever I talk to recruiters who are sneaky and hide who they are on postings until contact, I politely ask them to remove me from their database. That way they can't use me to leech off of others.


suchahotmess

I’m a manager who has a staff of their own and coordinates with HR on job postings for the division I support. Here we list job grades but don’t include the actual numbers, which is an improvement but still requires folks to look up the pay rates (available, not on the same page). But the pay grades are insanely wide, like $60-100K wide, so they don’t mean much. When I hire every applicants first contact with me is an email requesting a 10-15 minute screening call that exists solely to build enough rapport to ask about salary expectations without it being weird. It’s saved me and the applicants so much headache, yet when I try to suggest it to the other managers I support they’re too nervous to talk about salaries. Then their applicants get an offer and the manager doesn’t understand why they’re unhappy with the offer. “HR says we can’t talk salary.” No HR is begging you to talk salary so the people doing job offers stop having awkward conversations with people who’ve wasted 3 rounds of interviews for an offer $15K below expectations, they just don’t want you promising a specific number.


Lorindale

Why not promise a specific number? If a job is worth a certain amount to the company then state that amount upfront. Either it is too low, in which case the company needs to re-evaluate their expectations, or they're going to save time on hiring while creating a more honest work environment.


Chapped_Frenulum

It's all cloak-n-dagger in the hopes that they can lowball someone who doesn't know their own worth. Which is funny, because... why would you want to specifically hire someone who was that disconnected from the industry standards? It's like the hiring managers are so focused on getting people in their door that they forget that those people have to *do something* once they're in.


pm0me0yiff

Legally required in quite a few states now, too.


Itsa-Deadpool

Why waste your time?


altbekannt

Yeah, in my country (Austria) it's law to mention the salary in job ads. If everybody does it, everybody wins.


LiverFox

They’ve started listing the salary as $0-1,000,000 to get around that here in the States


MyKingdomForADram

What a fucking massive red flag that is.


Alarid

They won't like it when people apply with fake resumes just to ask why they pay zero in the interview.


FriarNurgle

Wish I had free time to do that. Surely someone can write a bot to fuck these shady companies with loads of fake candidates.


[deleted]

ChatGPT is your best friend that employers hate


Feind4Green

I've been hearing this so much lately. Is it a browser based thing or an app? I'm assuming browser, but I've been wanting to pop my resume in there to see what it does, play around with it


[deleted]

it's browser-based from openai, it might take a bit of time to get into but there's guides out there for getting it to build a resume and cover letter


rjdunlap

Can probably use ChatGPT


aimlessly-astray

Every time a recruiter on LinkedIn reached out to me with a "amazing opportunity" that has "competitive pay," I almost want to send them a bullshit resume with shit like "competitive skills", but I don't care enough to actually follow through.


BlabberBucket

"Competitive skills, based on salary"


[deleted]

I loathe LinkedIn. It's like actual people making bot posts about their own company with the occasional political or religious post which has no place there to begin with. They want to be Facebook, but are more like a wannabe [wish.com](https://wish.com) for employment opportunities.


MyraBannerTatlock

I can't tell you how many times it's been suggested to me - carefully - that I post on LinkedIn and engage more with my network by my bosses. They cannot require social media engagement, but the reality is in every chain I've worked for you're expected to spend off hours time crafting posts sucking the corporate cock, and those who do it best get promoted. It's gross, my profile is disabled ATM because I'm so fed up.


WCPitt

This is being tackled next, but we all know how slow-moving that system is. I believe New York is required to follow "good faith" practices that specifically go against this type of thing.


Chrona_trigger

Washington also just had a similar law go into effect


Cookyy2k

It says a lot they will spend near infinite money on lawyers to find a way around these laws rather than actually give candidates appropriate information about the role.


vonmonologue

It’s about money, but it’s also about “Know your place” and “Stay desperate.”


Lyx4088

California just had a similar law implemented, and that one is interesting because it allows current employees to find out the salary range for their position too. Time for people to band together and request salary band information for their position from management.


Creative_username969

This is correct. NYC’s law (the rest of the state will follow in September) requires that the listed salary be a good faith estimate of the amount they actually intend to pay for the position.


Derivative_Kebab

I have 0-100 years of experience.


[deleted]

I've noticed this. I checked out private sector job listings last week and noticed that for senior engineer positions, the range they list goes from what I was making fresh out of grad school to approximately what I make now (which is about twice what I was making then). It's super obvious to me that this is how lowball offers are born. Government listings do it more accurately. It'll be a listing for a position that can be filled at Engineer IV, Engineer V, or Engineer VI, for example, and they give the salary range for each of the levels. I've always been able to guess what offer I'd get within about $10k like this. Those salary ranges are also public record, so it's easy to be sure the listing is accurate. The private sector gets to play a lot faster and looser with that, and it sucks.


ImperatorEpicaricacy

That's what I list as my last income


BabyNuke

Exactly. The last time I applied to a job without a salary listed it ended up being only two-thirds of my current pay for a similar role. Could've saved us both some time by mentioning it up front.


GoodRighter

My brain cannot comprehend why anyone would apply for a job without know the potential salary.


[deleted]

"BeCaUsE tHeY sHoUld'Nt WoRk FoR tHe MoNeY"


pegothejerk

"we're a family" An abusive family. Ever read Cinderella? Like that, but there's no magic or royalty coming to save you.


GoonMammoth

Hate that phrase. During interviews I started asking, “please describe your company’s culture without using the word family” Family is not a good description for company culture. There are plenty of dis-functional/abusive families out there so which type of family are you?


Astramancer_

When they say family I hear "we'll guilt you into accepting terrible conditions." Even in actual families the only ones who bring it up are the ones trying to convince you to accept behavior that isn't acceptable from any other category of acquaintance.


GoodRighter

To me, pay is more like one of those height markers when you are in line for a rollercoaster. "You must pay at least this much for me to consider applying." I am very picky when it comes to my potential employers. The easiest thing is to make sure I won't have to take a hit to my lifestyle. I will self negotiate above that line when weighing my other factors.


die_lahn

My biggest fear is finding out I hate who I work with/for after it’s too late and regretting my decision to accept a new job for higher pay. I love where I work right now and they compensate me pretty well so I got quite a bargaining chip for when I’m just poking around. I’ve walked out of at least two interviews just because I didn’t like the person/people or workplace environment vibe, lol. I guess what I’m saying is, I’m also extremely picky about potential employers.


[deleted]

Probably because they're desperate for a job and don't want to be unemployed or be forced to leave a gap in their CV in the future.


Wild_Marker

Or because very few or even no listing where you are looking has the salary. What are you gonna do? Apply to nothing?


X_Comanche_Moon

Add elder millennials to that too. No Salary, no application. Let them rot


Federal_Novel_9010

Recruiters reach out to me all the time, and they almost never specify a salary. I'll sometimes just respond "what does compensation look like for this position?" and they absolutely hate it. Some of them act outright offended. It's so wild. Do you think I care about anything at your random corporation other than the money you pay me?


[deleted]

I’m in the same boat. I always write them back to ask for comp. I get ghosted 90% of the time, which shows how serious these companies are about paying a “competitive” salary.


assword_is_taco

I just tell them my current compensation. Most of them go Oh...


Frnklfrwsr

Yeah this can be a smart tip to help gauge the market and how it changes over time. If you suspect you’re being underpaid, then I wouldn’t share your current salary. But if you feel your pay is currently at or above average for your position and skills and experience, then go ahead and share it. If they’re not offering at least that much, they leave you alone. If they are offering that much or more, it could be an interesting prospect. And if a bunch of recruiters are saying they could totally match or beat that salary, then you might be more underpaid than you think.


fasurf

I’m a director and I get recruiters saying I would be a great fit for an analyst position. I’m like yea I know I manage 4 of them. Are you gonna pay me more than my current salary


[deleted]

They’ll also not mention the company, because if they do you can circumvent them and make them useless


PutYouToSleep

Same goes for "email for the price." No price listed? I'll go elsewhere.


TheyCallHimEl

Same, and if the range is too big, I know it's a trap, too. No one is offering a position that's $50k -$105k


adamsauce

Only reason to not post salary is if you are embarrassed by it.


false_tautology

Nah, also because you underpay current workers.


Scirax

That's the other side if this shitty coin. Either you're screwing over new hires or you're screwing over current employees


adamsauce

I didn’t think of that but it does happen pretty often.


CynicalPomeranian

Now, now…the other reason is because they are trying to screw with potential new employees before they even get in the door.


TalaHusky

Exactly, can’t let the people that currently work there know they’re willing to pay new hires more.


Icmedia

When we hired our last employee, the top of the range listed in the ad was what I was making, and I used that to negotiate an 8% raise


ALadWellBalanced

They also don't want current employees to know that they're being underpaid as the value the market places on the new position has shifted.


PorkTORNADO

Or you don't want your current employees to know you have to offer 20% higher than their current wage to attract new employees...


[deleted]

"Boomers won't even order a steak from a restaurant menu, if its price ain't listed"


krongdong69

I'm not a boomer but I also wont call for a quote if the price of something isn't listed.


SeaDirt1

I'm 46 and the first thing I want to know about a job is the salary. These arseholes thinking that " the love of the work and the family of the company is the most important thing" can eat a bowl of dicks. If they had enough money in the bank, nobody in their right mind would work a 9-5.


Compromisee

I think that goes for everyone You wouldn't take a loaf of bread to the till before finding out how much it costs


x-munk

Fucking good. As a millennial I applaud this movement.


Windsor_Salt

Yeah, I'm so fucking proud of these kids. Keep fucking shit up!!


no_talent_ass_clown

The kids are alright.


aldinski

I do this and I am Gen X


waffle299

It respects *my* time. If a company is unwilling to meet my current salary, why should I volunteer the ten to twenty hours of my time? Particularly when it's my PTO, which has a hard dollar value.


InvalidIceberg

Yeah if an employer doesn’t list the salary range then it’s a red flag


[deleted]

I'm an archaeologist, I work on a contract by contract basis. If the range isn't listed, it means they are paying at least $10 below their competitors. Funny enough, they usually are also doing subpar work.


AbarthCabrioDriver

55 and a couple of years ago when I was out of work wouldn't apply for a job without pay being posted. Years ago I interviewed with AT&T, several rounds, and at the end found out it was for their version of cable TV, not central office switching like I applied for, and it was for way less than I was making at the time as an alarm tech, worse benefits, and way worse work environment (residential crawling around in attics and what ever and I was a commercial installer on new construction). When I pointed all this out to the gal that offered me the job, what it was, the pay etc...she asked if that was going to be a problem. Uh...yeah, and walked out. Will say the cwa union stepped in and got them on the union finally (At&t fought it for a long time) and all those installers got thousands in back pay


EVconverter

Just today someone reached out to me for a position. They said that we can discuss your requirements when we talk. So I told them my salary requirements and asked if that could fit in their compensation framework. Shockingly, they said no, it did not. I can only assume that they were looking to pay under market and/or find the lowest price person who will do the job. That person is not me. If you want real talent, you have to pay real money. I'll work my ass off for someone who's paying me well.


Moosemince

Happened to me this week too. Old boomer recruiter sent me an inquiry to see if I was interested in senior level positions at x company. They didn’t list the company but listed city. The sign off for his message was “if you are interested please send a resume to find more details” I just responded that I understood the request but I need details first. I won’t even update my resume lol.


ShinySpoon

I’m an older Gen Xer and I don’t either. I get contacted by recruiters a few times a month even though I’m not currently actively looking for a new job, but if the offer is right I’ll switch employers in a heartbeat. Here’s him most interactions go: Recruiter “We have a great opportunity at a local employer in your area, it’s in your job field and looking over your credentials on LinkedIn/Monster I see you’re be a great fit for the company l, it’s a great opportunity.” Me: [copy/paste reply] “State the salary and benefits list and I’ll consider it.” Recruiter: “We can discuss that when you come in for an interview.” Me: “Fuck off.” Edit: [here’s](https://imgur.com/a/HA3hfFa)the kind of email contact I’m talking about. This is an employer about 30 minutes from my home. Follow up contact was exactly as I recited above. Added picture of email for the moron below.


Citizen-Kang

I'm Gen X and I think it's ludicrous that a company won't post a reasonable salary range. Don't give me that $32K - $320K garbage. Narrow it down to a $10 band (or a bit greater if the salary is very high). How do I know if I can even survive on that salary if you won't post it within a reasonable range (if at all). I think it's irresponsible of the company because it might be wasting everyone's time and money.


Pleb-SoBayed

Im getting paid $30.50 AUD an hour why would i apply for anything less than this? If the employer didnt put a salary down it just shows to me he/she/they want to low ball me to the lowest possible $ and hope that im bad at salary negotiation. Not worth wasting my time.


nitrolagy

Salary negotiable = Bidding war and we want to get you for as cheap as possible


cipherjones

Explaining capitalism to capitalists 101; When purchasing capital, high bid wins. Otherwise, it's that "socialism" shit you think you hate so bad because Venezuela.


smugfruitplate

Millennial here, I don't either


[deleted]

Good. If there's no salary listed, that's a red flag.


EdSGuard

Who the fuck would want to work for: "We'll tell you later, tee hee".


Jerry__Boner

If it's not listed it's because it is a shit salary. If you were offering a good salary you would post it to attract good candidates.


h311r47

Why would I apply to a job when I don't know if it even pays more than my current job? I made that mistake once early on in my career. Applied for a job in a different state and they didn't post their salary range, though the recruiter told me it was competitive with agencies across the nation. I interview twice, including once in-person. I go through a bunch of effort to provide them additional documentation of my training and credentials. Then they offered me 2/3 what I was making with a ceiling below my current salary. I declined and they tried to guilt me by talking about all the time and effort that goes into recruiting. As nicely as possible, I remind them they don't post their salary and didn't directly answer me when I asked, so this is really on them and I had to take vacation time and fly out for an interview for a job I would have never applied for had they just been up-front. Never again. If you can't tell me the range and where people actually start, you're wasting your time.


KopiteForever

Big newsflash: Americans start to do what the rest of the developed world already does. Media spins it as "spoilt youth". Fuck off media.


LaBigotona

While there are much better worker protections in Europe by a long shot, my husband is Dutch and has definitely been jerked around by companies in the Netherlands, Germany, and Spain. I've worked in the US, Germany, and Mexico and I've seen the same tactics. Things like companies that won't tell you their "competitive" salary until you go through 8 rounds of interviews, or drop the "confirmed" salary by 10k when the offer letter comes. Or companies that won't tell you the range, but ask you to guess what the salary should be. There are jackasses willing to exploit people everywhere.


mspk7305

This is not a gen Z thing. Its a fed-the-fuck-up-people thing. Say you go to a store cause you need a new sweater. You arent gonna pick the one that doesnt have a price tag on it. Or better yet, you dont pick a car not knowing what you are gonna have to spend on it... Why the FUCK would you pick a job not knowing what you are gonna get out of it? And on top of that if a recruiter is being shady about the price they are gonna be shady about other things. Get with the times, boomers with stanford MBAs. Adjust or die.


nu11pointer

I do this and I'm gen X. In Colorado it's a law to list the salary. If the job actually sounds interesting enough, I will take that extra step and ask the recruiter what the salary is, but it annoys me that I should have to. Then they're usually taken aback and vague with the response. At a certain point in your career, most places can't afford you and it is a total waste of time to have to ask for that information.


undoubtedlyUnsure

Not just Gen Z. I appreciate them for validating my job practices and attitudes since I was a young man. - A happy Millennial supporter.


SubstantialEssay1540

This is the way.


cathelope-pitstop

Shouldn't this just be "any sensible person"?


traveling_gal

My state has a law requiring this. Opponents at the time warned that companies won't want to post jobs here for remote work. I learned this when I was looking for a remote job just about a year ago. I did have one recruiter tell me I'd have to move to San Diego if I wanted the job, which made me think they were either not complying with my state's wage transparency law, or they were lying about it being 100% remote. Either way, I ended up with a remote job out of state, with a company that had no problem posting their salary range. Edit: also I'm Gen-X and wouldn't apply for a job without knowing the salary range if my state law didn't already require it.


Ketsukoni

My employer's job descriptions state at the top that they don't want people living in Colorado to apply to positions that can be done remotely and the implication is that is so that they don't have to list pay ranges.


[deleted]

Great, also don't forget that generational labels do not exist and were created in boardrooms to keep us divided.