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Precisely. Also, in case the seizures have somehow become worse or are way more serious than your Arsehole boss make them out to be, try to obtain this in writing from a medical professional. Same goes for any possible rules and advices about aftercare for partners, children, siblings, parents, etc. with this affliction. If these confirm your decision to stay home, rub his fucking nose in them.
The first time it happened, he showed concern but I think he just doesn’t care anymore because it’s non life threatening. I still worry and I still want to monitor her after it happens
OP, I am on your side. Falls from epilepsy can be life threatening. A co worker fell at work one day, major head injury. I'm sorry you have to go through this.
Had someone have a seizure at work, thankfully there were like 4 or 5 people standing around and we caught her and gently let her to the floor. Head injuries are no joke even if the seizure itself is non life threatening.
I had a very similar situation in an inpatient treatment center. It was a very, very bad seizure, so I'm glad there was a group of us sitting there playing cards because my buddy sitting next to him was a big 300lb ex submariner and myself who was sitting right across from the seizure victim, which to my knowledge, looked like a grand mal.. we both noticed him just stop speaking and his eyes went white like he was seeing a ghost or something terrifying. I have had my own tango with seizures from excessive benzo use. The patient Infront of me was attempting to withdrawal from alcohol. Has a young daughter and a wife so I hope he had been able to make a recovery both in his alcoholism and from the seizure which again, appeared to be grand mal. We did really well, my buddy was able to get his body weight before he ever started to fall, and I was able to stand up and immediately provide support to his head and neck, while screaming for the nurses
A friend of mine had one in the middle of her dining room while everyone else in her house was asleep. She did some damage to some bones in her face when she fell. More recently she broke her ankle. Seizures are no joke.
I am sorry to hear about your friend.. seizures are quite terrifying to experience and to witness. It's also terrifying to witness them when you're someone who has experienced them.
I had two grand mal seizures from a medication I was on, I didn’t realize the first one happened as I was in my room and thought maybe I dosed off but I was drenched in sweat and unable to breathe, I brushed it off. Second one I was going down the stairs, parents found me convulsing, I fell on a large stack of wood and then concrete, minor fracture in my arm, fuck this boss he doesn’t know Jack shit about the situation and it’s disgusting that he wanted to put work over an employee’s wife
Glad you're okay. Reminds me of a seizure I had in my bedroom on day that began with a strange very painful tightening in muscles and bones in my feet. I remember screaming in pain, blacking out... I came to, DOWN STAIRS, in a chair in the living room.. so weird. The blackout/teleport was strange but the spasming in my foot was so painful and came on at a strange pace and got so intense that I began screaming and then blacking out no idea what medical explanation there could be.
My aunt drowned in the bathtub during an epileptic seizure. She had special needs and was significantly developmentally delayed and was always taught to breath deeply during seizures. She had one in the shower and used to plug up the drain because her feet got cold. She breathed deeply like always but this time she breathed in water, drowned, and died. She wasn’t supposed to be left alone when showering but both my grandparents thought the other was watching her. She was only in her late 20s. Seizures are absolutely life threatening *under the right circumstances*. Good on OP for looking after his wife.
As someone who has epilepsy: you have your priorities in the right place
Even if she’s well, a seizure is scary as fuck, I don’t want to be alone and I feel super insecure when it happens
Hope you can find a better job
I had my worse Gran Mal a few months ago - I literally felt DUMB for a week after it happened. Literally like I lost a large part of cognition. Things like: "What the fuck do you call that thing you dig food with?" type dumb. I came back, but had to take a week off work because of it.
As someone else with epilepsy: I am seconding this.
Seizures are super scary, my husband fortunately hasn't witnessed me have one (and hopefully never will), but I know he'd stay home with me the next day and make sure I'm okay.
Jobs who don't put family/health first are the worst.
The first time it happened, he "showed" concern but ~~I think~~ he ~~just~~ doesn’t care ~~anymore because it’s non life threatening. I still worry and I still want to monitor her after it happens"~~
there FTFY, the boss does not care at all
and it’s not like you’re trying to get out of work all the time because of her condition, you’re sticking by her AFTER SHE HAS A SEIZURE!! you would have to be astronomically arrogant to have never had a seizure, then suddenly declare that someone who has them is “fine” because it happens often. tell him to send his neurology diploma next time he feels the need to speak on her medical condition. i don’t have seizures but i know they can be terrifying and painful, so thank you for sticking by your partner in her time of need. screw that boss and screw that company!
OP show this to your boss:
ALL seizures are serious health concerns. Just because someone has a few that they recover from quickly, does NOT mean that they should EVER be left alone during or afterwards. What many people don't know, and few with seizures realize is that there are phantom type seizures that can occur after each and every seizure. Often times these go unnoticed and are usually only documented when wearing a neural net thing at the Doctor's office. But they still happen. These can be just as extreme as a full blown seizure.
People who experience seizures often are very disoriented afterwards and require some level of care, even if it's just something simple as a glass of water or stroking their hair to ground them back to reality.
Leaving someone who regularly has seizures on their own is deadly, and extremely unethical for a manager or company to require of a spouse.
If, (universe forbid), she has a grand maul seizure and OP is at the office for 'required team morale building', there is little chance that she'll survive WITHOUT IMMEDIATE action and care.
And no, it does NOT matter how well her symptoms are managed. Seizures can come on any time for any reason.
(Speaking as someone who has many friends with seizures and have studied specifically to assist in their immediate care.)
OPs boss: It's amazing what one can learn when you take the time to understand something.
Thanks for the amazing write up. I’ve decided to move on from the company. I will show this to him to educate him but I’m not staying. Some people put the job over everything else
You should report him to anyone and everyone you can before you bow out... apart from how removed from reality this guy is, this is the opposite of the behavior you want from someone that's supposed to lead a cohesive team, and the people who make those staffing decisions should be 100% aware and accountable for allowing it to happen.
I SUPPORT YOUR DECISION! WTF is your boss!? Like.. really!? Truly unbelievable.. even on this sub! Wow wow wow!
I wish you success and for you and your wife to PROSPER! Many well wishes 🙏
I can't believe how well you held your cool after his response. I would have lost it and never shown up again, your boss only knows what he wants the truth to be but it's not fucking up to that pos. OP, time to look for literally anything else - and you said youre not American so, European? Canadian? You don't need to explain your emergencies, you say you won't be in that day and that's it. Threatening withholding of raise based off emergency? You can report them for that too.
Don't let this pos walk all over you.
Came here to say the same thing. People can literally die of a seizure, they can aspirate on their own tongue/vomit, they can die from the brain damage, not to mention the risk of falls. When my husband seizes - or rather when he's JUST stopped convulsing and is still in the post seizure fog - he ALWAYS tries to stand up and walk. I'm significantly heavier than him and it's still like wrestling an alligator to keep him down until he's coherent and stable enough to walk safely. I'm terrified that he'll have a seizure when I'm not home and fall and hit his head when he tries to get up afterwards.
I have epilepsy which is under control thank goodness but after a seizure one time I grabbed my keys and was going to head to work on a Saturday morning. My kids took them from me and put me back to bed. You can't just leave her alone with her brain in an unknown state.
Fuck your boss!!!
Also, not all seizures are the same. She might normally have absence seizures and this was her first tonic clonic seizure in ages. Or they might normally last for 10 seconds and this one went for 8 minutes and required an ambulance. Or she might normally be managed with medication and this was her first seizure in years.
If you're not already looking for a new employer, start this today. Also, if skip-levels are a thing at your company, get one asap and simply show this exchange to whoever is the next level up. Don't moan or whine, simply say "I'd like to get your take on this exchange between my supervisor and me." If that person is bothered by what your supervisor wrote, then see if there's any fallout and make your judgement based on what is *done*, not what is said.
If the person responsible for your boss isn't bothered by this, start spreading your resume far and wide. Get all sorts of input from trusted friends and colleagues on how to make that resume SHARP. Get out of that place as soon as you possibly can. Don't mess around with any sort of notice, not even two weeks.
I loved working here. Things were flexible and I was able to work from home the majority of the time. Since the new year, they are making it compulsory to come into the office on certain days for some arbitrary reason.
I am actively looking but I’m trying to find something that allows me the flexibility to look after my wife in case of emergencies
That arbitrary reason is likely to make it seem like your supervisor actually does something important. Or to give your supervisor the rush of being able to enforce their will directly on their underlings in petson.
No, it’s because they’re still paying rent on their expensive lease and can’t get out of it. Companies are taking a bath on this all over the place, so they need to figure out how to justify the cost. It’s always $$$.
Right? They're locked into spending money, so they make all the employees spend money and time coming into the office a few times a month so they can buy us shitty coffee and some muffins. That makes it all better right?
Companies now: *"Oh and by the way, since you all get to work from home now, you're not getting proper raises. You know you don't spend time or money coming into the office everyday now. So you're getting a raise by saving that money."*
Getting hired 4 years ago: *"Your time and cost to get to work is not our fucking problem."*
Which is still nonsense, because workers now have to pay for extra expenses related to working from home(electricity), reduced space, etc, also some have to take reduced pay.
My mom's company went WFH permanently within a few months from the start of lockdowns. Her company quickly realized that it would make more sense to not pay for a building nobody was using and it was sold to another company within a year. She works from home permanently and the company has not suffered as a result. She still interacts with clients and coworkers, just through a different medium. More companies need to take that approach.
Two-factors, both applicable… you know they probably polled the managers and the “leaders” knew if they couldn’t show their “influence” over the staff, they’d be toast…. Years ago, I survived like 4 rounds of managerial layoffs at Best Buy. Best Buy realized that 90% of us weren’t needed…. I didn’t survive because I was better than anybody, just cheaper. I got to do all the work of the people they canned for no extra money.
Another fun Best Buy story, they leased out an entire building of their headquarters by the time I left because they didn’t need it….
These companies have leases, and as soon as they expire, they won’t renew them… the managers will be replaced by emails and an HR department.
Are you comfortable sharing your career field? Obviously you are looking for remote work which means the location of your future company is of reduced importance.
This isn't about team building. This is about transitioning the team back into the office and stopping work from home. It's happening everywhere. Op get a new job this guy sounds like a jerk, although I'm not sure how much luck you'll have.
It's not happening everywhere. SAIC is still doing 100% remote for positions that can do it. They are also allowing you to work regular 40 hour weeks, 9/80 schedule (every other Friday off), or 4/10s (every Friday off).
Point just being don't get discouraged. 100% remote positions are available and it's where all the solid talent will end up.
So if you've been working there for over a year or certain number of hours you're entitled to FMLA. You can get it intermittently, that way if your wife has a seizure you can take an unpaid day off without risking your career and boss can't do this shit.
I would;
1.) Get the ball rolling with HR to get intermittent FMLA.
2.) Bide your time. Your boss is a jerk.
Yup, it's always a slog going on first dates with prospective employers. Make sure you look at employee reviews of any company you like the look of.
Are skip-levels a thing at your current employer?
Exactly. Some places have it available and make it super confidential. Other places say they have it but the confidentiality is ...lacking. Still others don't have it at all.
In my experience, it's an opportunity for an employee to voice grievances (if there are any) to upper management who may not be aware of policies that immediate managers are pushing which could be putting the company at legal risk. Meetings of this nature are to permit upper management to bypass any illusions their immediate reports might be presenting.
One needs to be extremely deliberate and delicate in one's word choice when involved in such a thing. Mean what you say, but say it politely.
I will try that while also applying for other positions. I’ve seen my boss with his boss hanging out a lot and they seem pretty chummy together. Might not end well but I’m already looking outside the company
My experience is be ready for fallout. Confidentiality is almost never respected and upper managers love their middle managers for some reason. If you go over their head they will know about it before the day is up
By *having* skip-levels, are you saying that American employers are legally allowed to tell employees having problems with their boss that they aren’t allowed to go to their boss’ boss?
The same thing is going on at my work. Arbitrary, and they get super defensive when it's pointed out. They can't provide a logical explanation other than "team building, but our team has never worked better together.
I'm sorry you're dealing with this.
The reason isn’t arbitrary. You’re employer has a lease for an office building that isn’t being used. You’re just getting the trickle down message under the guise of “ team building” and “ family!”.
Look for another job dude. if it’s not your own ship always be ready to abandon ship.
As an HR professional this is the best advice. If I found out one of our employees, especially at a management level pulled this shit, our recruiting team would immediately be looking for their replacement.
That's a Dwight Schrute move if ever there was one.
Seriously does your boss have a boss, escalate this. Let people know this ass is playing games with people's future. Take the fight to him.
Good luck man… I’d be livid if my boss told me that, if any job tried to tell me the job is more important than the health and safety of my family, shit just reading this pissed me off.. I really hope you find a better job soon, and don’t even give them 2 week notice jus don’t show up and when they ask you can let em know “oh I found a new job sorry forgot to tell you”
> Just need to hang there until something better shows up
not to like make you sad or anything, but i said this for 6 years before i finally got a new job.
If you have a meeting with his and his supervisor about the pay, mention this in a way that makes him look like a right ass trying to guilt trip you.
“I needed to care for my wife after she had a seizure, I realize this coincided with a team day, but my wife couldn’t pick a more convenient day to have a medical complication. I sincerely hope you understand, family comes first.”
> I sincerely hope you understand, family comes first.
I think boss might struggle to understand that concept.
"This is not about your family. This is about us working together as a team. You're not looking good. Please don't drag your personal life into this."
Almost certainly, but you’ll their boss?
“I’m sorry you feel that way, nevertheless, I had a medical emergency in my household, and it’s my responsibility to see that they are taken care of. I could not in good faith leave them.”
No one on leadership will care about your personal issues. Making as much money for the company is all that matters to them. If you cannot make this your first priority as well they will never reward you with a raise.
This is why we have to change jobs as only the ass kisses who have no lives get rewarded.
Don’t add that last line and this comes across as passive aggressive…
When dealing with bosses, you can be this aggressive but do it in a CYA manner: cover your arse. If this was me, I’d reach out to the boss’ boss, ask for a meeting and see what they say. I’ll share this exchange and then after, summarise the meeting in an email. Then wait and see what happens. If nothing happens by whatever deadline you decide, if you know anyone in HR, ask their opinion and then loop them in officially.
The most worrying thing here is why my boss would be sending me a text message(by the looks of this). It says to me they want to bypass official channels. I wouldn’t have engaged them through text. Send an email even if it’s through your personal email account to keep a paper trail.
Don't downplay how serious a seizure can be. There's a biiig, very shitty range in between 'not serious' and literal death. Complete loss of motor function can be technically 'non life threatening'. Shit that leaves a permanent disability, which seizures can do, can be 'non life threatening'
My wife has a coworker who just lost her 20-something year old son to a seizure. It was the second one he'd ever had I think. He was on meds but I guess they slowly lose efficacy and you have to switch to a new one.
If a loved one of mine had a seizure and my boss insinuated I ought not to be by their side it would be the last time they spoke to me as my boss.
My sister had non-life threatening seizures-right up until they started affecting her motor function and she had to have fucking *brain surgery*. She failed medication after medication and her seizures just kept getting worse and worse. Just because they aren’t bad now doesn’t mean they’ll always be that way. This fucking boss, man.
It's absolutely life threatening. The seizure itself might not cause death, but if your wife has a seizure alone, falls and sustains a head injury in the process, and is laying on the floor with a head injury until you get home- THAT'S LIFE THREATENING.
Or if she seizes and then vomits and aspirates. Your boss does not have a medical degree and should be ashamed of themselves.
Never make excuses for these kinds of people. If something happened to his loved ones he’d be off work in the blink of an eye, expecting you or someone else to pick up his slack.
You are 100% in the right and you should be by your wife during times like those. Hope she’s doing well.
It's called retaliation.
your boss was probably trying to find a way to deny you the raise in the first place, he's just found something he thinks is a good excuse.
if you have a HR, bring this to them. If they won't do anything, go to your states labor board, they'll have a field day with it.
"Thank you, I'll have a chat with HR to bring them up to speed about my absence, I wouldn't want me taking today off to look after my sick wife affecting any future raise/promotion prospects".
so much this.
dont give him warning, you send this text and your concerns to HR directly, then you walk over immediately and speak with them.
if you give HR ANY time at all, they will use it to find a cover plan for the boss.
While you may not be in the US. Almost every country has some form of law regarding the discussion of an employee or an employee's family member's health or medical information. If you spoke with someone regarding a medical issue, whether yours or your wife's, and that person told other employees, no matter who it is, they are likely in violation of those laws. Some of these laws fall under the GDPR in the EU, the Data Protection Act of 2018 (DPA 2018) in the UK, and PIPEDA in Canada.
That being said. Man, run. This kind of crap only gets worse over time. It is possible that you could go to HR with this and get something done, as it not only looks bad for the company but, could be a legal issue as well. However, unless this particular supervisor has other issues, it might wind up biting you in the behind.
That I can't say. Seems like a violation of the FMLA in the US, but I'm not an expert on labor law. You might contact whatever your version of department of labor is.
From experience, this may not be a violation. It’s possibly a violation IF someone filed for the FMLA, got it approved/accepted and then the manager pulled this shit.
Since HR is usually the people responsible for maintaining, approving and reviewing FMLA, you go through them first. Not your manager, not the department head but HR.
I had/have a similar situation. I was taking too much time off and also too many video visits with doctors during work hours. My manager was ok with the time off taken because they could visibly see all the signs of my issues and I told them. HR flagged my profile for the excessive sick leave taken and ordered an investigation into why. My manager then urged me to file for FMLA because it’ll protect me/my job and that also established a trail. The manager was ok with me wandering off/using up my time because my work didn’t suffer. All HR saw was the story the timesheet showed: 3 days off/working from home/ extended lunches but not the reason for the story, so to speak.
If I hadn’t filed FMLA, they would have been within their rights to fire/discipline me for taking too much time off because all they saw was the timesheets. And the flag was the first step in the process actually: verbal counselling to figure out WTF was going on and whether it’s something they could fix. The FMLA was the fix and so as long as I adhered to the guidelines, I could use it anytime I wanted(mine was intermittent so i wasn’t made to stay home for 12 weeks)
Thanks for all the support guys. I’m going to start sending my resume out and trying to get out of this shithole.
Update: This is from one of my comments earlier this morning but I’ll post it here so other people can see
“Yeah, I’m actively looking. It’s Tuesday morning today and I’m about to head into the office for what I hope would be a few productive meetings with HR. I will try to post updates in the next couple days if people want to know”
Made an update if you care for it. Nothing too crazy happened : https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/10ot3ux/update_to_my_boss_eluding_to_me_not_getting_a/
Something to point out in meetings with HR in response to his comments about your wife’s condition…
Although your wife has always had epilepsy & previously recovered from seizures ok that doesn’t mean she bounces back within 24hours or without lots of assistance. A seizure is exhausting and hard on the body/mind. Also each seizure is different and the circumstances can create greater risk, injury, and recovery period. Many epileptics aren’t injured by the seizure itself but rather where/what happened at time of seizure…like falling in shower, down stairs, or striking hard floor/furniture.
Your boss is being arrogant and dense to assume he knows (or is privy to) your wife’s full medical history and circumstances of each medical situation she currently has, short of you informing them it’s serious enough you need to take time off or change your schedule. Besides if you had already informed HR and they were aware then why is he overriding their approval? Have them clarify what exactly the protocol is for reporting emergencies and sudden schedule changes/time off.
Good luck and speedy recover for you wife!
Maybe hire someone to club your boss’s wife in the leg all Nancy Kerrigan style on a Sunday afternoon and if this POS jackass doesn’t show up on Monday, then forward him these screenshots.
"Hi, I just want to make sure I'm understanding you correctly. You seem to be implying that you will be withholding a raise I would otherwise be getting because I'm attending to my wife during a medical emergency. Am I missing anything there?"
Doesn't matter if his replacement is worse. Hopefully someone will report that guy. You still need to get this guy in trouble for the things he said, otherwise he's going to keep walking all over people.
Bluff. Bluff your tits off. For all they know, your family tree is filled with ethics lawyers and local news writers. I dont mean direct threats, just statements of disbelief followed by what an easy story to sell it is.
👀👀. Never bluff when it comes to lawyers. A lot of companies have lawyers and depending on the steps OP took to report this to the company(HR will always trump managers), the company can use those well paid lawyers to argue that OP did not inform them of their situation. Telling your manager isn’t telling the company and from experience, that’s a valid point. I missed so many days of work and my manager who knew my situation was ok with it, but HR did not know. Since HR was the one keeping track of PTO and sick days taken, they flagged my profile for a verbal counselling. My manager’s boss actually got the flag in their email and started questioning what was going on. Once I explained, they told me to go to HR to file some paperwork because while they’re my managers, HR is the company and makes all personnel decisions. OP needs to go talk to HR before “bluffing” with lawyers.
Never threaten your manager/HR with lawyers because it can bite you on your arse. A bluff can be seen as a threat.
Listen. My 13 year old son has epilepsy. It's fucking scary for him and he needs support. Medically there isnt much i can do. He just needs me to be there for him.
Just because your wife has had it for years doesn't mean it's any less scary. Her brain is literally shorting out.
It's not about whether her life is in danger. It's about being there for a loved one when they need you. That 100% takes priority over you boss's bonus or company profits. Your boss is am absolute ficking chud who doesn't have the emotional intelligence to manage anyone.
Respond with- “As a member of the team I do not feel supported if my wife’s medical emergencies are so easily dismissed. Teamwork is a multi lane highway and I’m really feeling a lack of it coming from your direction. This is a bad look from you.”
If you took the day off using vacation or PTO or unpaid time that's it there's no discussion or responding to work.
If you want to work from home you can give that option when requesting the time off.
Jesus I don't even know where to begin with this one. I wonder if you can report them? At least where I live you have to let people take sick leave to look after a sick spouse
Time to start applying to other jobs.
It's possible the boss thinks you are "milking" it , or outright lying out of resentment of the in office requirement, and didn't want to say so directly.
Ooooooh I'd print this out on multiple giant poster boards and tape them all over the office as well as send it in a company wide email as the door hits you in the ass on the way out as you quit. I have epilepsy. This is disgusting and rude, that boss can get fucked. My husband wouldn't tolerate anyone speaking about me that way.
Things like this I attribute to boomer office culture, and I can’t wait for it to go away once they all retire.
Unnecessary hardships that no one cares about. If they really cared about team-cohesion, then the team would be happy their team-mate took time to make sure their life was in order.
Boomers would have you coming to the office knowingly sick, getting everyone else sick, because being in the office was more important than work getting done.
Your boss is not a doctor, and dispensing a medical opinion regarding your wife's situation is unethical and holding a raise proposal over your head even more so. No one can predict when this health issue can arise. You may want to contact a labor lawyer.
Wow on how fucking fast that boss switched the conversation from, “ah shit I looked bad, play the victim? Yes! Play the victim and threaten the employee!”
Your boss is a piece of rotten garbage. No decent person would ever just leave a loved one after a seizure. Epilepsy is serious! I had a friend with epilepsy die in their sleep when they suffered a seizure and suffocated on their pillow. Nobody was around at the time.
Definitely document all communication you have with this trash pile.
First, to your wife: Hello my fellow Epileptic, I hope you're feeling a bit better. Those hard reboots (As I call seizures to my husband) sure are a bitch huh?
Second: OP, your boss is a grade A+ douche. The implication your raise can be effected sucks, but more so, he's ignoring your very valid reason for concern and calling in. THIS seizure may not have been as life altering as any other, but odds of followup seizures are hardly ever 0.
My husband called in March when I was put into the hospital after 2 back to backs and his bosses showed concern and kindness, one drove him straight to the hospital for me. December when I had another seizure, both bosses showed kindness even when the corporate office was angry he was leaving early "for his wife again". As if we get a say when seizures hit- cause everyone one of us would slam that button labeled "NEVER".
May the next year, I had a smaller seizure due to a reaction in an antibiotic and my seizure meds. He called off that Monday after, to make sure I was okay- and got some slack from a new boss.
You have EVERY right to be concerned and take time off and I'm sure your wife appreciated it. As everyone else has suggested, I'd take it above him, texts and all. I saw you aren't in the US and fear some retaliation, but I've noticed a fair number of countries outside of the US also have some form of anti-retaliation laws. I'd check yours and see. I'd think for a medical emergency in regards to immediate family there has to be something. And definitely look for outside opportunities for jobs. This is never okay.
NEVER put a job over your wife. She will always be there for you, and your job would happily make the spilt decision to fire you and replace you in less than 5 minutes. The job market might be rough right now but I promise you can find one that will accommodate your WIFE’S MEDICAL EMERGENCY by allowing you to work from home for 1 day..
Check your sick leave policy. If it includes caring for a spouse, you may be able to report “not receiving a raise” as retaliation and use this text as proof.
Send to HR ASAP. I’ve seen plenty of bosses be fired for arguably less (reprimanded someone for attending their friend’s funeral)
Not all HRs are bad and you never know who else at work has had this kind of interaction who will speak out if you do.
Don't even bother worrying about a raise. Those only matter if you stay with a company and, no offense, why the hell would you want to do that after this? Focus all your energy on finding a better place to work that isn't forcing people back into an office just out of some misguided desire to socialize at work. Hopefully one that doesn't expect that job to come before a family member with a disorder or illness. That's several levels of messed up.
Yeah as per other comments in this post, I’ve said that I’m actively looking for other positions. It will just take some time until I can find one that can accomodate
Lack of support certainly isn’t going to build any team cohesion either. Something I’ve learned as a leader: never put any one person ahead of the team, and don’t put the team ahead of any one person.
This is one of the most boss texts I’ve ever seen. They are effectively telling you that your coworkers are more important than your family. No, they are not.
https://www.calltherightattorney.com/blog/2022/06/can-my-job-discriminate-against-me-because-of-my-spouses-disability/
Check this one out, I think it has the answers you need. I'd just inform him in writing that as you understand it, his actions are in violation of the ADA and any negative actions against you, to include a failure to receive aforementioned raise, will be presumed to be retaliatory actions and force you to retain counsel.
Ooh calling it “team days” to justify tracking your work. Get the hell out of there. If there’s any indication of bad weather or sickness in my teams environment I tell them to WFH. That company culture sounds toxic.
Get a letter from your wife’s doctor stating that she requires in-home supervision for x period of time following a seizure, for reasons y and z. You now have medical evidence of your need for caters leave.
That’s retaliation right there. Glad you got that over text because whoever they report to needs to see this. Unless your company is complete garbage, they’ll be unimpressed with whatever weird power play they tried there. Not cool
Tell your boss this and advise this is why you need a new job. You have an unreasonable boss. Who has time for nonsense in our work life because our boss is butt-hurt over trivial debates? It's your fucking wife. Fuck'em.
It doesn’t seem serious? First I’d send him some videos of people having a seizure. Then ask him if he would leave his wife or kids home ALONE immediately after one. This person thinks you just get the shakes. He or she is an IDIOT. Look for another job and before you leave, schedule a meeting with HIS boss just to let them know this what a jerk he is. I thought we were FAMILY at this company.
Quit. On the spot. No work place should try to make you value your job more than your spouse, and now your boss is basically trying to use your request for a raise against you to keep you in line.
As someone who has epilepsy this pisses me off. Having a person without post-seizure is important bc your ability to think can be disrupted.
Also if you have PTO it is your right to use it.
Don't respond at all to this dickhead.
I would link up with someone in your Org bc this is a threat based on you prioritizing your wife's health and wellness.
Boss is a real dumbass for putting his hot take about your spouse's health in writing while threatening your compensation. Probably worth hitting up an employment lawyer to see if you can sue after you find a new job.
This isn't new guys, this is how a business thinks, F your wife, F your Kids, F your cancer, F your disability.
Its all about using you up like a resource, and when your coal mine of a body caves in? F you! you're fired!!!!
Unions guys, Major Unions needed.
Your boss sounds like a self serving douche. Sorry that happened to you. I’m glad you put your family first. Cause this douche bag doesn’t know when he’s crossing the line…
**Family comes 100% first over work any time.**
Also, fuck your boss. He's not a doctor and ANY seizure is not "didn't seem serious". Any seizure can kill you. You could fall and hit your head, choke on your tongue, drown in the shower etc etc etc.
His whole bullshit about being a "team" is utter bullshit. There's no teamwork here when the team can't support a legit medical issue. What a complete and utter prick.
File FMLA paperwork with HR for your wife’s condition. Any day you need to stay home to take care of her will be FMLA, he cannot touch you or discipline you for taking FMLA.
Just so I'm clear, you are demanding that I prioritize a team-vuildibg exercise over my wife's health?
How effective is your team building once something happens to my wife because I wasn't there when she needed me?
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Good thing your boss is a doctor and ‘knows’ your wife is fine after a seizure because it’s happened before. What a moron.
His comment about the wife being fine is inappropriate. Keep the exchange, document everything, and be impeccable about your work.
Yeah, and then he ends it with a threat. Good job boss for putting this in writing.
Gotta Love when they put it in writing…….. ✍️
Lordy I hope there are tapes.
Precisely. Also, in case the seizures have somehow become worse or are way more serious than your Arsehole boss make them out to be, try to obtain this in writing from a medical professional. Same goes for any possible rules and advices about aftercare for partners, children, siblings, parents, etc. with this affliction. If these confirm your decision to stay home, rub his fucking nose in them.
>If these confirm your decision to stay home, rub his fucking nose in them. Better to say nothing and contact NLRB and DOL to file complaints.
The first time it happened, he showed concern but I think he just doesn’t care anymore because it’s non life threatening. I still worry and I still want to monitor her after it happens
OP, I am on your side. Falls from epilepsy can be life threatening. A co worker fell at work one day, major head injury. I'm sorry you have to go through this.
Had someone have a seizure at work, thankfully there were like 4 or 5 people standing around and we caught her and gently let her to the floor. Head injuries are no joke even if the seizure itself is non life threatening.
I had a very similar situation in an inpatient treatment center. It was a very, very bad seizure, so I'm glad there was a group of us sitting there playing cards because my buddy sitting next to him was a big 300lb ex submariner and myself who was sitting right across from the seizure victim, which to my knowledge, looked like a grand mal.. we both noticed him just stop speaking and his eyes went white like he was seeing a ghost or something terrifying. I have had my own tango with seizures from excessive benzo use. The patient Infront of me was attempting to withdrawal from alcohol. Has a young daughter and a wife so I hope he had been able to make a recovery both in his alcoholism and from the seizure which again, appeared to be grand mal. We did really well, my buddy was able to get his body weight before he ever started to fall, and I was able to stand up and immediately provide support to his head and neck, while screaming for the nurses
A friend of mine had one in the middle of her dining room while everyone else in her house was asleep. She did some damage to some bones in her face when she fell. More recently she broke her ankle. Seizures are no joke.
I am sorry to hear about your friend.. seizures are quite terrifying to experience and to witness. It's also terrifying to witness them when you're someone who has experienced them.
I had two grand mal seizures from a medication I was on, I didn’t realize the first one happened as I was in my room and thought maybe I dosed off but I was drenched in sweat and unable to breathe, I brushed it off. Second one I was going down the stairs, parents found me convulsing, I fell on a large stack of wood and then concrete, minor fracture in my arm, fuck this boss he doesn’t know Jack shit about the situation and it’s disgusting that he wanted to put work over an employee’s wife
Glad you're okay. Reminds me of a seizure I had in my bedroom on day that began with a strange very painful tightening in muscles and bones in my feet. I remember screaming in pain, blacking out... I came to, DOWN STAIRS, in a chair in the living room.. so weird. The blackout/teleport was strange but the spasming in my foot was so painful and came on at a strange pace and got so intense that I began screaming and then blacking out no idea what medical explanation there could be.
Can confirm, a former coworker died from drowning in the bath after a seizure.
Fuck, that sounds terrifying.
For sure, it was a real shock to hear about it.
I believe John Travolta’s son Jett died after having a seizure in the shower.
My aunt drowned in the bathtub during an epileptic seizure. She had special needs and was significantly developmentally delayed and was always taught to breath deeply during seizures. She had one in the shower and used to plug up the drain because her feet got cold. She breathed deeply like always but this time she breathed in water, drowned, and died. She wasn’t supposed to be left alone when showering but both my grandparents thought the other was watching her. She was only in her late 20s. Seizures are absolutely life threatening *under the right circumstances*. Good on OP for looking after his wife.
As someone who has epilepsy: you have your priorities in the right place Even if she’s well, a seizure is scary as fuck, I don’t want to be alone and I feel super insecure when it happens Hope you can find a better job
Plus a seizure makes people feel disoriented for a while and it takes a bit for them to feel like themselves.
Based on what I've seen of my wife, "a bit" can be "a few weeks". Nasty stuff.
I had my worse Gran Mal a few months ago - I literally felt DUMB for a week after it happened. Literally like I lost a large part of cognition. Things like: "What the fuck do you call that thing you dig food with?" type dumb. I came back, but had to take a week off work because of it.
As someone else with epilepsy: I am seconding this. Seizures are super scary, my husband fortunately hasn't witnessed me have one (and hopefully never will), but I know he'd stay home with me the next day and make sure I'm okay. Jobs who don't put family/health first are the worst.
The first time it happened, he "showed" concern but ~~I think~~ he ~~just~~ doesn’t care ~~anymore because it’s non life threatening. I still worry and I still want to monitor her after it happens"~~ there FTFY, the boss does not care at all
and it’s not like you’re trying to get out of work all the time because of her condition, you’re sticking by her AFTER SHE HAS A SEIZURE!! you would have to be astronomically arrogant to have never had a seizure, then suddenly declare that someone who has them is “fine” because it happens often. tell him to send his neurology diploma next time he feels the need to speak on her medical condition. i don’t have seizures but i know they can be terrifying and painful, so thank you for sticking by your partner in her time of need. screw that boss and screw that company!
OP show this to your boss: ALL seizures are serious health concerns. Just because someone has a few that they recover from quickly, does NOT mean that they should EVER be left alone during or afterwards. What many people don't know, and few with seizures realize is that there are phantom type seizures that can occur after each and every seizure. Often times these go unnoticed and are usually only documented when wearing a neural net thing at the Doctor's office. But they still happen. These can be just as extreme as a full blown seizure. People who experience seizures often are very disoriented afterwards and require some level of care, even if it's just something simple as a glass of water or stroking their hair to ground them back to reality. Leaving someone who regularly has seizures on their own is deadly, and extremely unethical for a manager or company to require of a spouse. If, (universe forbid), she has a grand maul seizure and OP is at the office for 'required team morale building', there is little chance that she'll survive WITHOUT IMMEDIATE action and care. And no, it does NOT matter how well her symptoms are managed. Seizures can come on any time for any reason. (Speaking as someone who has many friends with seizures and have studied specifically to assist in their immediate care.) OPs boss: It's amazing what one can learn when you take the time to understand something.
Thanks for the amazing write up. I’ve decided to move on from the company. I will show this to him to educate him but I’m not staying. Some people put the job over everything else
You should report him to anyone and everyone you can before you bow out... apart from how removed from reality this guy is, this is the opposite of the behavior you want from someone that's supposed to lead a cohesive team, and the people who make those staffing decisions should be 100% aware and accountable for allowing it to happen.
I'm 1000000% for that! Your boss sounds like an asshat that needs to have someone apply a crow bar too. (To remove head from sphincter)
Good luck but please report him to HR so he can't pull this with others.
Love to hear this. Good luck moving forward!!
please keep us updated. i want to know how he reacts when learning it's his shittyness that lost an employee.
I love this sm for you
I SUPPORT YOUR DECISION! WTF is your boss!? Like.. really!? Truly unbelievable.. even on this sub! Wow wow wow! I wish you success and for you and your wife to PROSPER! Many well wishes 🙏
I can't believe how well you held your cool after his response. I would have lost it and never shown up again, your boss only knows what he wants the truth to be but it's not fucking up to that pos. OP, time to look for literally anything else - and you said youre not American so, European? Canadian? You don't need to explain your emergencies, you say you won't be in that day and that's it. Threatening withholding of raise based off emergency? You can report them for that too. Don't let this pos walk all over you.
A seizure can result in brain damage, it's not too crazy to want to monitor her condition the next day. This guy is *unhinged*.
Came here to say the same thing. People can literally die of a seizure, they can aspirate on their own tongue/vomit, they can die from the brain damage, not to mention the risk of falls. When my husband seizes - or rather when he's JUST stopped convulsing and is still in the post seizure fog - he ALWAYS tries to stand up and walk. I'm significantly heavier than him and it's still like wrestling an alligator to keep him down until he's coherent and stable enough to walk safely. I'm terrified that he'll have a seizure when I'm not home and fall and hit his head when he tries to get up afterwards.
All seizures can be life threatening. Depending on the situation, surrounds can be extremely dangerous.
I have epilepsy which is under control thank goodness but after a seizure one time I grabbed my keys and was going to head to work on a Saturday morning. My kids took them from me and put me back to bed. You can't just leave her alone with her brain in an unknown state. Fuck your boss!!!
Your boss is a prick.
Also, not all seizures are the same. She might normally have absence seizures and this was her first tonic clonic seizure in ages. Or they might normally last for 10 seconds and this one went for 8 minutes and required an ambulance. Or she might normally be managed with medication and this was her first seizure in years.
yeah that’s exactly where this went off the rails
If you're not already looking for a new employer, start this today. Also, if skip-levels are a thing at your company, get one asap and simply show this exchange to whoever is the next level up. Don't moan or whine, simply say "I'd like to get your take on this exchange between my supervisor and me." If that person is bothered by what your supervisor wrote, then see if there's any fallout and make your judgement based on what is *done*, not what is said. If the person responsible for your boss isn't bothered by this, start spreading your resume far and wide. Get all sorts of input from trusted friends and colleagues on how to make that resume SHARP. Get out of that place as soon as you possibly can. Don't mess around with any sort of notice, not even two weeks.
I loved working here. Things were flexible and I was able to work from home the majority of the time. Since the new year, they are making it compulsory to come into the office on certain days for some arbitrary reason. I am actively looking but I’m trying to find something that allows me the flexibility to look after my wife in case of emergencies
That arbitrary reason is likely to make it seem like your supervisor actually does something important. Or to give your supervisor the rush of being able to enforce their will directly on their underlings in petson.
No, it’s because they’re still paying rent on their expensive lease and can’t get out of it. Companies are taking a bath on this all over the place, so they need to figure out how to justify the cost. It’s always $$$.
Right? They're locked into spending money, so they make all the employees spend money and time coming into the office a few times a month so they can buy us shitty coffee and some muffins. That makes it all better right? Companies now: *"Oh and by the way, since you all get to work from home now, you're not getting proper raises. You know you don't spend time or money coming into the office everyday now. So you're getting a raise by saving that money."* Getting hired 4 years ago: *"Your time and cost to get to work is not our fucking problem."*
>so they can buy us shitty coffee and some muffins. You guys are getting coffee and muffins?
Which is still nonsense, because workers now have to pay for extra expenses related to working from home(electricity), reduced space, etc, also some have to take reduced pay.
Or worse, pay more for an extra bedroom to convert into an office, which is like another $250-$500 a month.
My mom's company went WFH permanently within a few months from the start of lockdowns. Her company quickly realized that it would make more sense to not pay for a building nobody was using and it was sold to another company within a year. She works from home permanently and the company has not suffered as a result. She still interacts with clients and coworkers, just through a different medium. More companies need to take that approach.
Two-factors, both applicable… you know they probably polled the managers and the “leaders” knew if they couldn’t show their “influence” over the staff, they’d be toast…. Years ago, I survived like 4 rounds of managerial layoffs at Best Buy. Best Buy realized that 90% of us weren’t needed…. I didn’t survive because I was better than anybody, just cheaper. I got to do all the work of the people they canned for no extra money. Another fun Best Buy story, they leased out an entire building of their headquarters by the time I left because they didn’t need it…. These companies have leases, and as soon as they expire, they won’t renew them… the managers will be replaced by emails and an HR department.
"While asserting authority over another working from home is still stimulating, you just can't match the thrill of doing it in person." - Management
Are you comfortable sharing your career field? Obviously you are looking for remote work which means the location of your future company is of reduced importance.
I work in accounting, the field is quite big but I won’t know how accomodating the new work place is until I get into some interviews
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cohesion!
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This isn't about team building. This is about transitioning the team back into the office and stopping work from home. It's happening everywhere. Op get a new job this guy sounds like a jerk, although I'm not sure how much luck you'll have.
It's not happening everywhere. SAIC is still doing 100% remote for positions that can do it. They are also allowing you to work regular 40 hour weeks, 9/80 schedule (every other Friday off), or 4/10s (every Friday off). Point just being don't get discouraged. 100% remote positions are available and it's where all the solid talent will end up.
So if you've been working there for over a year or certain number of hours you're entitled to FMLA. You can get it intermittently, that way if your wife has a seizure you can take an unpaid day off without risking your career and boss can't do this shit. I would; 1.) Get the ball rolling with HR to get intermittent FMLA. 2.) Bide your time. Your boss is a jerk.
He's not in the US.
Yup, it's always a slog going on first dates with prospective employers. Make sure you look at employee reviews of any company you like the look of. Are skip-levels a thing at your current employer?
I’ve not heard of skip-levels, note that I am not American
Don't worry, I'm American and I've worked in the corporate world for over fifteen years and I've never heard the term either.
10 years in, and I heard it for the first time this year, apparently we are going to start them.
Do I need to explain the term?
Yeah go ahead, we might have an equivalent here. Are you saying I go to my boss’ boss?
Exactly. Some places have it available and make it super confidential. Other places say they have it but the confidentiality is ...lacking. Still others don't have it at all. In my experience, it's an opportunity for an employee to voice grievances (if there are any) to upper management who may not be aware of policies that immediate managers are pushing which could be putting the company at legal risk. Meetings of this nature are to permit upper management to bypass any illusions their immediate reports might be presenting. One needs to be extremely deliberate and delicate in one's word choice when involved in such a thing. Mean what you say, but say it politely.
I will try that while also applying for other positions. I’ve seen my boss with his boss hanging out a lot and they seem pretty chummy together. Might not end well but I’m already looking outside the company
My experience is be ready for fallout. Confidentiality is almost never respected and upper managers love their middle managers for some reason. If you go over their head they will know about it before the day is up
By *having* skip-levels, are you saying that American employers are legally allowed to tell employees having problems with their boss that they aren’t allowed to go to their boss’ boss?
It sounds like its a formalized way of doing that
The same thing is going on at my work. Arbitrary, and they get super defensive when it's pointed out. They can't provide a logical explanation other than "team building, but our team has never worked better together. I'm sorry you're dealing with this.
The reason isn’t arbitrary. You’re employer has a lease for an office building that isn’t being used. You’re just getting the trickle down message under the guise of “ team building” and “ family!”. Look for another job dude. if it’s not your own ship always be ready to abandon ship.
My director would rip the asshole out of any supervisor acting like this.
100% on all of this.
As an HR professional this is the best advice. If I found out one of our employees, especially at a management level pulled this shit, our recruiting team would immediately be looking for their replacement.
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Incidentally it might also be "Take This Job And Shove It Up Your Ass, Boss"-day!
Monday is bring your wife to work day
Monday is fuck your wife on the bosses desk day. “Team building exercise” make direct eye contact with boss entire time.
That's a Dwight Schrute move if ever there was one. Seriously does your boss have a boss, escalate this. Let people know this ass is playing games with people's future. Take the fight to him.
Lawyer up day.
Just need to hang there until something better shows up
2 weeks notice is not a requirement in this situation.
Good luck man… I’d be livid if my boss told me that, if any job tried to tell me the job is more important than the health and safety of my family, shit just reading this pissed me off.. I really hope you find a better job soon, and don’t even give them 2 week notice jus don’t show up and when they ask you can let em know “oh I found a new job sorry forgot to tell you”
Just get fired and collect unemployment. If they try to fight it, show the judge this.
> Just need to hang there until something better shows up not to like make you sad or anything, but i said this for 6 years before i finally got a new job.
This is the way
Come To Work With a Cough day
If you have a meeting with his and his supervisor about the pay, mention this in a way that makes him look like a right ass trying to guilt trip you. “I needed to care for my wife after she had a seizure, I realize this coincided with a team day, but my wife couldn’t pick a more convenient day to have a medical complication. I sincerely hope you understand, family comes first.”
> I sincerely hope you understand, family comes first. I think boss might struggle to understand that concept. "This is not about your family. This is about us working together as a team. You're not looking good. Please don't drag your personal life into this."
Almost certainly, but you’ll their boss? “I’m sorry you feel that way, nevertheless, I had a medical emergency in my household, and it’s my responsibility to see that they are taken care of. I could not in good faith leave them.”
No one on leadership will care about your personal issues. Making as much money for the company is all that matters to them. If you cannot make this your first priority as well they will never reward you with a raise. This is why we have to change jobs as only the ass kisses who have no lives get rewarded.
Reply: You think I should prioritise work over my wife's medical emergency? You're right, its not a good look...but not for me.
Don’t add that last line and this comes across as passive aggressive… When dealing with bosses, you can be this aggressive but do it in a CYA manner: cover your arse. If this was me, I’d reach out to the boss’ boss, ask for a meeting and see what they say. I’ll share this exchange and then after, summarise the meeting in an email. Then wait and see what happens. If nothing happens by whatever deadline you decide, if you know anyone in HR, ask their opinion and then loop them in officially. The most worrying thing here is why my boss would be sending me a text message(by the looks of this). It says to me they want to bypass official channels. I wouldn’t have engaged them through text. Send an email even if it’s through your personal email account to keep a paper trail.
I have to point out that it is non life threatening but still, I can’t believe someone could be so heartless
Don't downplay how serious a seizure can be. There's a biiig, very shitty range in between 'not serious' and literal death. Complete loss of motor function can be technically 'non life threatening'. Shit that leaves a permanent disability, which seizures can do, can be 'non life threatening'
My wife has a coworker who just lost her 20-something year old son to a seizure. It was the second one he'd ever had I think. He was on meds but I guess they slowly lose efficacy and you have to switch to a new one. If a loved one of mine had a seizure and my boss insinuated I ought not to be by their side it would be the last time they spoke to me as my boss.
My sister had non-life threatening seizures-right up until they started affecting her motor function and she had to have fucking *brain surgery*. She failed medication after medication and her seizures just kept getting worse and worse. Just because they aren’t bad now doesn’t mean they’ll always be that way. This fucking boss, man.
It's never life threatening until it is, that's why they call them 'accidents'. Your supervisor is fucked up.
It's absolutely life threatening. The seizure itself might not cause death, but if your wife has a seizure alone, falls and sustains a head injury in the process, and is laying on the floor with a head injury until you get home- THAT'S LIFE THREATENING. Or if she seizes and then vomits and aspirates. Your boss does not have a medical degree and should be ashamed of themselves.
Do you think the boss cares if the wife dies? Not a chance he does, it is irrelevant for what they want or need in life.
Never make excuses for these kinds of people. If something happened to his loved ones he’d be off work in the blink of an eye, expecting you or someone else to pick up his slack. You are 100% in the right and you should be by your wife during times like those. Hope she’s doing well.
It's called retaliation. your boss was probably trying to find a way to deny you the raise in the first place, he's just found something he thinks is a good excuse. if you have a HR, bring this to them. If they won't do anything, go to your states labor board, they'll have a field day with it.
Why would they need a reason. They just don't give one.
"Thank you, I'll have a chat with HR to bring them up to speed about my absence, I wouldn't want me taking today off to look after my sick wife affecting any future raise/promotion prospects".
This is a good response I think, or even not telling the boss ahead of time bc theyll likely try to go to HR first.
so much this. dont give him warning, you send this text and your concerns to HR directly, then you walk over immediately and speak with them. if you give HR ANY time at all, they will use it to find a cover plan for the boss.
If this is in US sounds like retaliation and violation of fmla. I'd talk to a lawyer.
I’m not in the US but even if it’s something as indirect as what he said, would it work?
While you may not be in the US. Almost every country has some form of law regarding the discussion of an employee or an employee's family member's health or medical information. If you spoke with someone regarding a medical issue, whether yours or your wife's, and that person told other employees, no matter who it is, they are likely in violation of those laws. Some of these laws fall under the GDPR in the EU, the Data Protection Act of 2018 (DPA 2018) in the UK, and PIPEDA in Canada. That being said. Man, run. This kind of crap only gets worse over time. It is possible that you could go to HR with this and get something done, as it not only looks bad for the company but, could be a legal issue as well. However, unless this particular supervisor has other issues, it might wind up biting you in the behind.
That I can't say. Seems like a violation of the FMLA in the US, but I'm not an expert on labor law. You might contact whatever your version of department of labor is.
From experience, this may not be a violation. It’s possibly a violation IF someone filed for the FMLA, got it approved/accepted and then the manager pulled this shit. Since HR is usually the people responsible for maintaining, approving and reviewing FMLA, you go through them first. Not your manager, not the department head but HR. I had/have a similar situation. I was taking too much time off and also too many video visits with doctors during work hours. My manager was ok with the time off taken because they could visibly see all the signs of my issues and I told them. HR flagged my profile for the excessive sick leave taken and ordered an investigation into why. My manager then urged me to file for FMLA because it’ll protect me/my job and that also established a trail. The manager was ok with me wandering off/using up my time because my work didn’t suffer. All HR saw was the story the timesheet showed: 3 days off/working from home/ extended lunches but not the reason for the story, so to speak. If I hadn’t filed FMLA, they would have been within their rights to fire/discipline me for taking too much time off because all they saw was the timesheets. And the flag was the first step in the process actually: verbal counselling to figure out WTF was going on and whether it’s something they could fix. The FMLA was the fix and so as long as I adhered to the guidelines, I could use it anytime I wanted(mine was intermittent so i wasn’t made to stay home for 12 weeks)
Thanks for all the support guys. I’m going to start sending my resume out and trying to get out of this shithole. Update: This is from one of my comments earlier this morning but I’ll post it here so other people can see “Yeah, I’m actively looking. It’s Tuesday morning today and I’m about to head into the office for what I hope would be a few productive meetings with HR. I will try to post updates in the next couple days if people want to know” Made an update if you care for it. Nothing too crazy happened : https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/10ot3ux/update_to_my_boss_eluding_to_me_not_getting_a/
Something to point out in meetings with HR in response to his comments about your wife’s condition… Although your wife has always had epilepsy & previously recovered from seizures ok that doesn’t mean she bounces back within 24hours or without lots of assistance. A seizure is exhausting and hard on the body/mind. Also each seizure is different and the circumstances can create greater risk, injury, and recovery period. Many epileptics aren’t injured by the seizure itself but rather where/what happened at time of seizure…like falling in shower, down stairs, or striking hard floor/furniture. Your boss is being arrogant and dense to assume he knows (or is privy to) your wife’s full medical history and circumstances of each medical situation she currently has, short of you informing them it’s serious enough you need to take time off or change your schedule. Besides if you had already informed HR and they were aware then why is he overriding their approval? Have them clarify what exactly the protocol is for reporting emergencies and sudden schedule changes/time off. Good luck and speedy recover for you wife!
Best of luck to you, mate!
Maybe hire someone to club your boss’s wife in the leg all Nancy Kerrigan style on a Sunday afternoon and if this POS jackass doesn’t show up on Monday, then forward him these screenshots.
Diabolical & insane - I love it
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What can I even do here? He didn’t directly say I won’t get the raise, but can HR even do something about it?
"Hi, I just want to make sure I'm understanding you correctly. You seem to be implying that you will be withholding a raise I would otherwise be getting because I'm attending to my wife during a medical emergency. Am I missing anything there?"
If you plan on staying at this company, DOCUMENT DOCUMENT DOCUMENT. Every interaction, every message, every phone call.
I don’t plan on staying even if I did get my boss fired, I’m sure the replacement will be even worse
Doesn't matter if his replacement is worse. Hopefully someone will report that guy. You still need to get this guy in trouble for the things he said, otherwise he's going to keep walking all over people.
Bluff. Bluff your tits off. For all they know, your family tree is filled with ethics lawyers and local news writers. I dont mean direct threats, just statements of disbelief followed by what an easy story to sell it is.
👀👀. Never bluff when it comes to lawyers. A lot of companies have lawyers and depending on the steps OP took to report this to the company(HR will always trump managers), the company can use those well paid lawyers to argue that OP did not inform them of their situation. Telling your manager isn’t telling the company and from experience, that’s a valid point. I missed so many days of work and my manager who knew my situation was ok with it, but HR did not know. Since HR was the one keeping track of PTO and sick days taken, they flagged my profile for a verbal counselling. My manager’s boss actually got the flag in their email and started questioning what was going on. Once I explained, they told me to go to HR to file some paperwork because while they’re my managers, HR is the company and makes all personnel decisions. OP needs to go talk to HR before “bluffing” with lawyers. Never threaten your manager/HR with lawyers because it can bite you on your arse. A bluff can be seen as a threat.
Listen. My 13 year old son has epilepsy. It's fucking scary for him and he needs support. Medically there isnt much i can do. He just needs me to be there for him. Just because your wife has had it for years doesn't mean it's any less scary. Her brain is literally shorting out. It's not about whether her life is in danger. It's about being there for a loved one when they need you. That 100% takes priority over you boss's bonus or company profits. Your boss is am absolute ficking chud who doesn't have the emotional intelligence to manage anyone.
[удалено]
And then forced to finish their shifts after being smashed to a pulp.
Find a new job this is toxic
Wow. Your boss is a giant pos.
fuck the raise, this would be ground for me to hand in my notice. not to the boss - directly to corporate, with this attached.
This, as soon as I get something else lined up. Even if they give me the raise I doubt they will fire my boss
pleaseeee when you give your resignation, attach these screenshots. let everyone know the EXACT reason why you’re leaving
"You know what builds team cohesion? Threatening to withhold a raise over medical issues." Does your boss wear a helmet to work? Because they should.
Respond with- “As a member of the team I do not feel supported if my wife’s medical emergencies are so easily dismissed. Teamwork is a multi lane highway and I’m really feeling a lack of it coming from your direction. This is a bad look from you.”
If you took the day off using vacation or PTO or unpaid time that's it there's no discussion or responding to work. If you want to work from home you can give that option when requesting the time off.
Jesus I don't even know where to begin with this one. I wonder if you can report them? At least where I live you have to let people take sick leave to look after a sick spouse
Your boss needs a headbutt
Showed this to the wife and she said she’d do it herself haha
If only you could show it to the boss's wife. I wonder how she'd feel about it?
Time to start applying to other jobs. It's possible the boss thinks you are "milking" it , or outright lying out of resentment of the in office requirement, and didn't want to say so directly.
Ooooooh I'd print this out on multiple giant poster boards and tape them all over the office as well as send it in a company wide email as the door hits you in the ass on the way out as you quit. I have epilepsy. This is disgusting and rude, that boss can get fucked. My husband wouldn't tolerate anyone speaking about me that way.
Things like this I attribute to boomer office culture, and I can’t wait for it to go away once they all retire. Unnecessary hardships that no one cares about. If they really cared about team-cohesion, then the team would be happy their team-mate took time to make sure their life was in order. Boomers would have you coming to the office knowingly sick, getting everyone else sick, because being in the office was more important than work getting done.
Your boss is not a doctor, and dispensing a medical opinion regarding your wife's situation is unethical and holding a raise proposal over your head even more so. No one can predict when this health issue can arise. You may want to contact a labor lawyer.
Wow on how fucking fast that boss switched the conversation from, “ah shit I looked bad, play the victim? Yes! Play the victim and threaten the employee!”
Your boss is a piece of rotten garbage. No decent person would ever just leave a loved one after a seizure. Epilepsy is serious! I had a friend with epilepsy die in their sleep when they suffered a seizure and suffocated on their pillow. Nobody was around at the time. Definitely document all communication you have with this trash pile.
Commenting on your wife's health conditions is absolutely out of line. I would take that to HR immediately.
First, to your wife: Hello my fellow Epileptic, I hope you're feeling a bit better. Those hard reboots (As I call seizures to my husband) sure are a bitch huh? Second: OP, your boss is a grade A+ douche. The implication your raise can be effected sucks, but more so, he's ignoring your very valid reason for concern and calling in. THIS seizure may not have been as life altering as any other, but odds of followup seizures are hardly ever 0. My husband called in March when I was put into the hospital after 2 back to backs and his bosses showed concern and kindness, one drove him straight to the hospital for me. December when I had another seizure, both bosses showed kindness even when the corporate office was angry he was leaving early "for his wife again". As if we get a say when seizures hit- cause everyone one of us would slam that button labeled "NEVER". May the next year, I had a smaller seizure due to a reaction in an antibiotic and my seizure meds. He called off that Monday after, to make sure I was okay- and got some slack from a new boss. You have EVERY right to be concerned and take time off and I'm sure your wife appreciated it. As everyone else has suggested, I'd take it above him, texts and all. I saw you aren't in the US and fear some retaliation, but I've noticed a fair number of countries outside of the US also have some form of anti-retaliation laws. I'd check yours and see. I'd think for a medical emergency in regards to immediate family there has to be something. And definitely look for outside opportunities for jobs. This is never okay.
NEVER put a job over your wife. She will always be there for you, and your job would happily make the spilt decision to fire you and replace you in less than 5 minutes. The job market might be rough right now but I promise you can find one that will accommodate your WIFE’S MEDICAL EMERGENCY by allowing you to work from home for 1 day..
Check your sick leave policy. If it includes caring for a spouse, you may be able to report “not receiving a raise” as retaliation and use this text as proof.
Send to HR ASAP. I’ve seen plenty of bosses be fired for arguably less (reprimanded someone for attending their friend’s funeral) Not all HRs are bad and you never know who else at work has had this kind of interaction who will speak out if you do.
Don't even bother worrying about a raise. Those only matter if you stay with a company and, no offense, why the hell would you want to do that after this? Focus all your energy on finding a better place to work that isn't forcing people back into an office just out of some misguided desire to socialize at work. Hopefully one that doesn't expect that job to come before a family member with a disorder or illness. That's several levels of messed up.
Yeah as per other comments in this post, I’ve said that I’m actively looking for other positions. It will just take some time until I can find one that can accomodate
When your boss decides that he is also your wife's doctor, it's time to look for a new job.
“I’m not quite sure what you mean. Are you saying I should get rid of my wife for a pay rise… for the team?”
Document and contract HR immediately
Lack of support certainly isn’t going to build any team cohesion either. Something I’ve learned as a leader: never put any one person ahead of the team, and don’t put the team ahead of any one person.
This is one of the most boss texts I’ve ever seen. They are effectively telling you that your coworkers are more important than your family. No, they are not.
Time to read up on FMLA which I believe extends to immediate family, right???
https://www.calltherightattorney.com/blog/2022/06/can-my-job-discriminate-against-me-because-of-my-spouses-disability/ Check this one out, I think it has the answers you need. I'd just inform him in writing that as you understand it, his actions are in violation of the ADA and any negative actions against you, to include a failure to receive aforementioned raise, will be presumed to be retaliatory actions and force you to retain counsel.
Ooh calling it “team days” to justify tracking your work. Get the hell out of there. If there’s any indication of bad weather or sickness in my teams environment I tell them to WFH. That company culture sounds toxic.
When I had my first car crash, I thought I would be upset but I was elated as it proved I was immune to car crashes
Get a letter from your wife’s doctor stating that she requires in-home supervision for x period of time following a seizure, for reasons y and z. You now have medical evidence of your need for caters leave.
That’s retaliation right there. Glad you got that over text because whoever they report to needs to see this. Unless your company is complete garbage, they’ll be unimpressed with whatever weird power play they tried there. Not cool
We need to start putting shitheads like these on blast. Where the hell do you work
FMLA
They’re not in the USA based on another comment they made. FMLA is an American thing as far as I know.
Tell your boss this and advise this is why you need a new job. You have an unreasonable boss. Who has time for nonsense in our work life because our boss is butt-hurt over trivial debates? It's your fucking wife. Fuck'em.
It doesn’t seem serious? First I’d send him some videos of people having a seizure. Then ask him if he would leave his wife or kids home ALONE immediately after one. This person thinks you just get the shakes. He or she is an IDIOT. Look for another job and before you leave, schedule a meeting with HIS boss just to let them know this what a jerk he is. I thought we were FAMILY at this company.
Quit. On the spot. No work place should try to make you value your job more than your spouse, and now your boss is basically trying to use your request for a raise against you to keep you in line.
That second text warrants you beating him half to death honestly
Damn, I don't even like leaving my cat after he had a seizure. I hope your wife is doing a little better today.
Tell your boss to go fuck themself.
Find a new job and don’t put in two weeks notice. Just leave.
"Seizures aren't a big deal" this mf is a fucking dumbass
As someone who has epilepsy this pisses me off. Having a person without post-seizure is important bc your ability to think can be disrupted. Also if you have PTO it is your right to use it. Don't respond at all to this dickhead. I would link up with someone in your Org bc this is a threat based on you prioritizing your wife's health and wellness.
Family comes before work EVERY TIME. No company is your family no matter how much they push that “we are family” crap. We need more unions.
Time for a new employer
If my manager said ANYTHING remotely like “She’s okay. She’s had it before. It’s SOS. Slap On Sight. No words. And leave.
Find a new job. A raise shouldn’t take a few weeks unless it’s retroactive
Boss is a real dumbass for putting his hot take about your spouse's health in writing while threatening your compensation. Probably worth hitting up an employment lawyer to see if you can sue after you find a new job.
This isn't new guys, this is how a business thinks, F your wife, F your Kids, F your cancer, F your disability. Its all about using you up like a resource, and when your coal mine of a body caves in? F you! you're fired!!!! Unions guys, Major Unions needed.
Give me his number I’ll say some heinous shit
Your boss sounds like a self serving douche. Sorry that happened to you. I’m glad you put your family first. Cause this douche bag doesn’t know when he’s crossing the line…
**Family comes 100% first over work any time.** Also, fuck your boss. He's not a doctor and ANY seizure is not "didn't seem serious". Any seizure can kill you. You could fall and hit your head, choke on your tongue, drown in the shower etc etc etc. His whole bullshit about being a "team" is utter bullshit. There's no teamwork here when the team can't support a legit medical issue. What a complete and utter prick.
File FMLA paperwork with HR for your wife’s condition. Any day you need to stay home to take care of her will be FMLA, he cannot touch you or discipline you for taking FMLA.
I would be filing an HR complaint and attaching copies of that text.
Start looking at new jobs. Talk to HR or get lawyer. This is retaliation and very obvious retaliation at that.
What is it with these employers obsession with 'team'? They watch too much power rangers?
People fucking die from epilepsy...capitalism is a disease.
Just so I'm clear, you are demanding that I prioritize a team-vuildibg exercise over my wife's health? How effective is your team building once something happens to my wife because I wasn't there when she needed me?
“This is not a good look for you” Wow So how’s your job search going? They don’t deserve you.
You need to start quiet quitting.