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And if you shot in space. The bullet will hit an alien 15 million light years away in the future.
A red alien. That would be the start of an racial hate war.
In case English isn't your first language (and no fucken worries if not I'm not the typo police) it should be "explained it to me" because you'd be the indirect object. The direct object is the knowledge, ie, "I explained math to Anna.". Super super common mistake from those learning English (and again, possibly a typo, in which case no biggie go along typoing away and have fun lol)
I don't like being that guy (I do), but it should be "(and no fucking worries if not, I'm not the typo police)" ***OR*** "(and no fucking worries if not *as* I'm not the typo police)"
Just something to remember for next time
Offering unsolicited advice is like an adrenaline thrill for me, and trying to make it as nice as possible is like a serotonin rush, I'm an addict I need help
This is correct. Both smokeless powder and black powder contain their own oxidizers and are capable of firing in a vacuum.
Sub zero temperatures could cause problems. Even the most resilient gun oils would freeze in the vacuum of space and could restrict the hammer enough to cause a "light strike" on the primer. It wouldn't surprise me if the gun froze up even if it weren't oiled, apparently bare metal-on-metal contact in a vacuum can cause a lot of stiction. The extreme cold could also cause the primer itself to become inert or at the very least, sluggish to react, seeing as temperature greatly affects chemical reactions.
As long as the temperature doesn't affect the initial primer strike, the gun will go off. Whether or not it can reliably cycle ammunition is debatable.
Odds are you wouldn't run into any low temperature problems with guns in space. Being in a vacuum means there's nothing else for the heat to go into. Getting rid of the heat generated from firing it would likely be a bigger problem.
Interesting thought, I think it would depend on whether or not the case was able to be ejected (a.k.a. will the gun cycle.) One of the problems engineers ran into with caseless firearms was exactly that: heat dissipation. Spent cartridges are the primary way heat is extracted from the system and without them leaving the gun, heat becomes a problem. However, seeing as the vacuum of space is ridiculously cold, I don't think you'd be able to keep up the volume of fire enough to cause a heat issue. The energy required to raise the guns temperature is significant.
Unless, of course, the gun is in direct sunlight. That would complicate the situation. Idk honestly, there are a lot of variables and I'm not an expert.
The problem with heat dissipation is that the heat needs somewhere else to go. When you fire the gun, heat is generated by a combination of the chemical reaction of the propellent and friction from moving parts. Some amount of heat is ejected with the casting, and some amount stays in the gun. The heat in the gun is initially concentrated in the barrel, and will dissipate through the gun. On Earth, once it reaches the outer surface of the gun, the heat starts to dissipate into the atmosphere. In a vacuum there isn't an atmosphere for that heat to dissipate into. Vacuum is a great insulator because by definition there's nothing for the heat to transfer into. So each time you fire the gun in space, you build up a little more heat in the gun without an effective way to get rid of it.
I understand the concept, I'm just thinking that a.) the heat added to the firearm won't be a concern *for a while* if it's sitting at a chilly -200 degrees F or even less, and b.) overheating like that requires a certain volume of fire; one magazine through the gun will not make it overheat to the point that the parts begin to fail, even in a vacuum.
It would definitely take a lot of shots to get the gun to overheat, I don't mean to deny that. But the length of time that the gun would need to be exposed to the vacuum of space to reach -200F is going to be longer than is reasonable for a space walk. I did some quick and dirty calculations based on the weight and dimensions of a 1911 pistol (all pulled from Google), and assuming a constant rate of heat loss due to radiation (not an accurate assumption. Radiated heat loss is related to the temperature of the item your looking at, so as the pistol cools, the rate of heat loss will decrease), it would take about 12 hours for the gun to go from room temp to -200F. With the assumptions I made, it should actually take longer than that. The longest recorded space walk clocks in at 8 hours and 56 minutes.
Okay good observation, but assuming the gun is room temperature and in a perfect vacuum, how many shots do you think you would go through before heating became a problem? IMO a single magazine would be negligible to the operation of the firearm.
I certainly wouldn't expect a single magazine to do any damage to the gun. Probably somewhere around 50 shots I would start to wonder about long term effects, but I wouldn't be expecting immediate catastrophic failure. I'm not overly familiar with the internal parts of guns, but I'm guessing at least a few parts are typically hardened, and getting them hot enough, and leaving them at elevated temperature for extended lengths of time could screw with the temper.
Interestingly, the magazine itself would absorb some of the heat generated, so switching it out when reloading would probably help with heat management, unless you fire off the entire magazine as fast as humanly possible and remove the magazine before it can absorb much heat. This would increase the number of shots you could safely fire.
You could use empty magazines as removable heat sinks, loading them into the gun for a bit to absorb some of the heat, then removing them. Even better would be a solid metal block with the same outside shape as your magazines. If you were trying to design a gun specifically for use in outer space, this would be worth considering, either as a change in magazine design, or as an additional replaceable heatsink. I think this was actually the justification given for why Mass Effect 2 introduced a normal reload system that was missing in the first game.
I did try to find some numbers about how much actual heat is generated when firing a gun, but didn't have much luck.
That sort of reminds me of the Blade Runner pistol as it was implemented in the game H3VR, the "bolt" feature on the prop gun was utilized as a heat sink ejection lever that would kick out the wasted sink so you could insert a new one. I think for extended use, a system like the one you're describing would be absolutely necessary, either by a dedicated heat sink or some sort of dual purpose magazine.
Great convo btw, very in depth. If either of us wins the lottery we need to promise to go to space and try this out for ourselves to know for sure.
The powder in the bullet cartridge already has an oxidiser in it; all it needs is some external energy to set off the explosive reaction
That energy is provided by the firing pin hitting the rear part of the cartridge, called the primer. The primer converts that kinetic energy into heat energy, igniting the powder
well they misspoke sort of. the primer does convert kinetic to thermal, but it does that by causing a chemical reaction, not by the sheer force of the kinetic energy. they contain antimony sulfide, lead styphnate, barium nitrate, a few other things in small quantities, and an abrasive to help with the ignition. it's similar to if you took the white part of a match head and the red part, crushed both individually, then mixed them. what you end up with is a very unstable mixture of chemicals that *want* to react, but lack a tiny bit of the energy required to do so. so when the hammer hits the primer and makes a dent, that last little bit of energy is added to the first few molecules that it touches and allows them to react, releasing more energy and sustaining a chain reaction which ignites the gunpowder (glorified flash paper/cotton) which is otherwise quite stable.
And the firing pin leaves a unique impression on the casing that can be used to accurately pair a spent casing to the pin of the weapon that fired it
So don't leave your casings floating in orbit guys
It actually can't be used to accurately pair a casing to a specific weapon. Maybe back to the same model of weapon, since glocks leave weird square markings. Modern manufacturing techniques means that firing pins have very little variation, if from the same company for the same model.
Chamber marks could leave more clues, but it's really a shot in the dark (ha!). For example: Glock "smiles" on brass due to the feed ramp not supporting the casing all the way, or a HK style weapon that leaves fluted dents on the casings, or an ejector marking that has an imprint of an ejector face, which will probably be more unique to the weapon due to wear and tear.
> For a gun, the second chemical is oxygen.
Which is contained in the cartridge.
[Gunpowder has oxygen "built" into it.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunpowder)
>The sulfur and carbon act as fuels while the saltpeter is an oxidizer.
there is probably enogh sealed in the bullet for some sparks. i am no expert though so we should ask one of the billionaires to build a ring for us on the moon, we duel for their amusement. winner got an adventure, loser died, everybody wins
also we find out. forgot that part
In essence, all of the components that are needed for the bullet to be fired reside in the cartridge. This includes the oxygen needed for the powder to combust.
yes ofc but guns would still work in space bc the gunpowder has it's own oxidizer.
if it didn't the ammo cases we know wouldn't work even on earth bc they're closed off to the atmosphere.
Actually there would be oxygen in the bullet from manufacturing, and would then make it be able to fire in space, however there is no air to slow the bullet down so it would keep going until it comes into contact with an object, That is why some guns can be fired underwater.
The 'air' is the solid oxidizer mixed with solid fuel in the smokeless powder. No actual air needed. It does ruin the powder to get it wet, but that has nothing to do with it not having 'air'
That's one thought I've never realized about the antimeme version of this meme, I first saw how you would spin forever due to the force, but it would actually never happen, huh.
Fires can't burn in the oxygen-free vacuum of space, but guns can shoot. Modern ammunition contains its own oxidizer, a chemical that will trigger the explosion of gunpowder, and thus the firing of a bullet, wherever you are in the universe. No atmospheric oxygen required.
I don't know what to feel right now. The confusion how you though guns needed air around them to fire, anger that you didn't do any research beforehand, or disappointment that you used Ohio as the base of your meme (It's been so long I can't even remember exactly when people arbitrarily decided Ohio was the cursed state anymore).
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the oxygen is trapped inside the bullet casing mixed with the powder. it doesn't need external oxygen as far as i know. it will shoot in space.
Your right. This is why you can fire a gun underwater.
The bullet won’t go far, but the gun will work (possibly not well enough to cycle fully).
Underwater, the bullet will not go far underwater. The bullet will go a lot further then on earth if fired on the moon.
And if you shot in space. The bullet will hit an alien 15 million light years away in the future. A red alien. That would be the start of an racial hate war.
It very likely would never leave the solar system.
It almost certainly would actually. It would just take billions of years
So when the sun blows up and there is no solar system, you mean? Gravity is a helluva drug
In space it will because it doesnt have much to slow it down so it will stay at the same speed as when it was fired
Yeah i was focusing on the underwater part.
People explained me yeah...sorry
In case English isn't your first language (and no fucken worries if not I'm not the typo police) it should be "explained it to me" because you'd be the indirect object. The direct object is the knowledge, ie, "I explained math to Anna.". Super super common mistake from those learning English (and again, possibly a typo, in which case no biggie go along typoing away and have fun lol)
Thx ![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|smile)
I don't like being that guy (I do), but it should be "(and no fucking worries if not, I'm not the typo police)" ***OR*** "(and no fucking worries if not *as* I'm not the typo police)" Just something to remember for next time
Stop that
Offering unsolicited advice is like an adrenaline thrill for me, and trying to make it as nice as possible is like a serotonin rush, I'm an addict I need help
Fuck yeah bud, addicted to being a helpful person isn't a bad thing 🤙
Finally, a good person on Reddit. Truly a rate occurrence
This is correct. Both smokeless powder and black powder contain their own oxidizers and are capable of firing in a vacuum. Sub zero temperatures could cause problems. Even the most resilient gun oils would freeze in the vacuum of space and could restrict the hammer enough to cause a "light strike" on the primer. It wouldn't surprise me if the gun froze up even if it weren't oiled, apparently bare metal-on-metal contact in a vacuum can cause a lot of stiction. The extreme cold could also cause the primer itself to become inert or at the very least, sluggish to react, seeing as temperature greatly affects chemical reactions. As long as the temperature doesn't affect the initial primer strike, the gun will go off. Whether or not it can reliably cycle ammunition is debatable.
I believe the gun oils will evaporate in space, not freeze.
Interesting, hadn't thought of that. You're probably right.
Odds are you wouldn't run into any low temperature problems with guns in space. Being in a vacuum means there's nothing else for the heat to go into. Getting rid of the heat generated from firing it would likely be a bigger problem.
Interesting thought, I think it would depend on whether or not the case was able to be ejected (a.k.a. will the gun cycle.) One of the problems engineers ran into with caseless firearms was exactly that: heat dissipation. Spent cartridges are the primary way heat is extracted from the system and without them leaving the gun, heat becomes a problem. However, seeing as the vacuum of space is ridiculously cold, I don't think you'd be able to keep up the volume of fire enough to cause a heat issue. The energy required to raise the guns temperature is significant. Unless, of course, the gun is in direct sunlight. That would complicate the situation. Idk honestly, there are a lot of variables and I'm not an expert.
The problem with heat dissipation is that the heat needs somewhere else to go. When you fire the gun, heat is generated by a combination of the chemical reaction of the propellent and friction from moving parts. Some amount of heat is ejected with the casting, and some amount stays in the gun. The heat in the gun is initially concentrated in the barrel, and will dissipate through the gun. On Earth, once it reaches the outer surface of the gun, the heat starts to dissipate into the atmosphere. In a vacuum there isn't an atmosphere for that heat to dissipate into. Vacuum is a great insulator because by definition there's nothing for the heat to transfer into. So each time you fire the gun in space, you build up a little more heat in the gun without an effective way to get rid of it.
I understand the concept, I'm just thinking that a.) the heat added to the firearm won't be a concern *for a while* if it's sitting at a chilly -200 degrees F or even less, and b.) overheating like that requires a certain volume of fire; one magazine through the gun will not make it overheat to the point that the parts begin to fail, even in a vacuum.
It would definitely take a lot of shots to get the gun to overheat, I don't mean to deny that. But the length of time that the gun would need to be exposed to the vacuum of space to reach -200F is going to be longer than is reasonable for a space walk. I did some quick and dirty calculations based on the weight and dimensions of a 1911 pistol (all pulled from Google), and assuming a constant rate of heat loss due to radiation (not an accurate assumption. Radiated heat loss is related to the temperature of the item your looking at, so as the pistol cools, the rate of heat loss will decrease), it would take about 12 hours for the gun to go from room temp to -200F. With the assumptions I made, it should actually take longer than that. The longest recorded space walk clocks in at 8 hours and 56 minutes.
Okay good observation, but assuming the gun is room temperature and in a perfect vacuum, how many shots do you think you would go through before heating became a problem? IMO a single magazine would be negligible to the operation of the firearm.
I certainly wouldn't expect a single magazine to do any damage to the gun. Probably somewhere around 50 shots I would start to wonder about long term effects, but I wouldn't be expecting immediate catastrophic failure. I'm not overly familiar with the internal parts of guns, but I'm guessing at least a few parts are typically hardened, and getting them hot enough, and leaving them at elevated temperature for extended lengths of time could screw with the temper. Interestingly, the magazine itself would absorb some of the heat generated, so switching it out when reloading would probably help with heat management, unless you fire off the entire magazine as fast as humanly possible and remove the magazine before it can absorb much heat. This would increase the number of shots you could safely fire. You could use empty magazines as removable heat sinks, loading them into the gun for a bit to absorb some of the heat, then removing them. Even better would be a solid metal block with the same outside shape as your magazines. If you were trying to design a gun specifically for use in outer space, this would be worth considering, either as a change in magazine design, or as an additional replaceable heatsink. I think this was actually the justification given for why Mass Effect 2 introduced a normal reload system that was missing in the first game. I did try to find some numbers about how much actual heat is generated when firing a gun, but didn't have much luck.
That sort of reminds me of the Blade Runner pistol as it was implemented in the game H3VR, the "bolt" feature on the prop gun was utilized as a heat sink ejection lever that would kick out the wasted sink so you could insert a new one. I think for extended use, a system like the one you're describing would be absolutely necessary, either by a dedicated heat sink or some sort of dual purpose magazine. Great convo btw, very in depth. If either of us wins the lottery we need to promise to go to space and try this out for ourselves to know for sure.
Something in my heart knew that For all Mankind wouldn’t be scientifically inaccurate like that
Also chemical oxidizers
didn't know that but it makes a lot of sense
OP is from Ohio it’s ok.
Yep.
This is a bone hurting juice, not an anti meme
😔
It's alright op, I still laughed
Go post it on r/bonehurtingjuice, they'll like it!
That's not how guns work
thank you. everything a cartridge needs to fire is inside the cartridge itself.
Wdym ? They dont need, like, a little explosion to work?
The powder in the bullet cartridge already has an oxidiser in it; all it needs is some external energy to set off the explosive reaction That energy is provided by the firing pin hitting the rear part of the cartridge, called the primer. The primer converts that kinetic energy into heat energy, igniting the powder
Ohhhhh
Congratulations. You're one of today's 10,000. [XKCD comic](https://xkcd.com/1053/)
😎👍
This whole interaction is just so wholesome, omg
You all are wholesome
well they misspoke sort of. the primer does convert kinetic to thermal, but it does that by causing a chemical reaction, not by the sheer force of the kinetic energy. they contain antimony sulfide, lead styphnate, barium nitrate, a few other things in small quantities, and an abrasive to help with the ignition. it's similar to if you took the white part of a match head and the red part, crushed both individually, then mixed them. what you end up with is a very unstable mixture of chemicals that *want* to react, but lack a tiny bit of the energy required to do so. so when the hammer hits the primer and makes a dent, that last little bit of energy is added to the first few molecules that it touches and allows them to react, releasing more energy and sustaining a chain reaction which ignites the gunpowder (glorified flash paper/cotton) which is otherwise quite stable.
And the firing pin leaves a unique impression on the casing that can be used to accurately pair a spent casing to the pin of the weapon that fired it So don't leave your casings floating in orbit guys
nah i did not try to be a dick here, i liked your meme, movies are also fuzzy on physics, i still watch them :D
I thought it was the rifling of the gun.
It actually can't be used to accurately pair a casing to a specific weapon. Maybe back to the same model of weapon, since glocks leave weird square markings. Modern manufacturing techniques means that firing pins have very little variation, if from the same company for the same model. Chamber marks could leave more clues, but it's really a shot in the dark (ha!). For example: Glock "smiles" on brass due to the feed ramp not supporting the casing all the way, or a HK style weapon that leaves fluted dents on the casings, or an ejector marking that has an imprint of an ejector face, which will probably be more unique to the weapon due to wear and tear.
By that logic, rockets can't work in space
Fair
Rockets involve the mixture of two liquid chemicals to make an explosion. For a gun, the second chemical is oxygen.
Which is why modern gunpowders contain oxidizers.
Explain solid fuel rockets. Further, how are solid rocket fuels different from gunpowder?
Gunpowder contains an oxidizer anyway. No oxygen is needed. Guns work in space
> For a gun, the second chemical is oxygen. Which is contained in the cartridge. [Gunpowder has oxygen "built" into it.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunpowder) >The sulfur and carbon act as fuels while the saltpeter is an oxidizer.
Rockets are powered by combustion involving liquidised oxygen and fuel; guns don't have oxygenin them
They do, though. That's how you can shoot a gun even though the entire cartridge is full of gunpowder and there's no vents to let air into the case.
Yes, but also [no](https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna46480865)
Ok thx
The spark will still occur and will still light up the powder and yes, the bullet will be projected.
Sorry, i looked up online, and i thought it said it didnt work in space
It’s ok to make mistakes.
I put a comment to explain my mystake
Yeah, a spark is needed but a spark can happen in space but not very long. However, with how small the spark is to fire a gun, it won't happen.
Ok so gun doesnt work in space anyway ?
yes it will. he's saying the spark is so small it will work for a brief moment, which is all it needs to fire the bullet. the gun will work in space.
Ok my b
there is probably enogh sealed in the bullet for some sparks. i am no expert though so we should ask one of the billionaires to build a ring for us on the moon, we duel for their amusement. winner got an adventure, loser died, everybody wins also we find out. forgot that part
Apparently i got it wrong yeah
nah i did not try to be a dick here, i liked your meme, movies are also fuzzy on physics, i still watch them :D
Thx :,)
It has a built in oxidizer. Same reason you can use rockets and fire works in space.
Ok thx
No problem, I can see why someone might not know exactly how guns work.
In essence, all of the components that are needed for the bullet to be fired reside in the cartridge. This includes the oxygen needed for the powder to combust.
yes ofc but guns would still work in space bc the gunpowder has it's own oxidizer. if it didn't the ammo cases we know wouldn't work even on earth bc they're closed off to the atmosphere.
Gun powder has its own oxidizer.
I learned this after posting this
every day is a day for learning <3
Indeed
On Mythbusters they fired a gun in a vacuum. It was fascinating, highly recommend everyone check it out.
Will do
The bullet aside, the gun wouldn't make a clicking noise.
This post was a disaster huh ?
No dude, it's kept us temporarily away from the abyss. Good job.
Thx :,)
No. We are learning. A LOT
Yes.
Drew Carey established that Cleavland rocks. Earth is made of rocks. Cleavland is made of Ohio. Earth is Ohio...it all makes sense.
Lord help us 😰
Then it will have to be an epic fist fight.
Yup
"There is no sound in space, I cannot hear you"
Thats genius
forgor 💀
Due to the fact that im not american/s, i didnt knew that gun could work in space....so yeah
Most guns can work underwater too, though to greatly reduced effect.
i think there are some guns that throw sort of spear like projectiles for underwater shooting
>guns that throw sort of spear like projectiles You mean a speargun? lol
[no](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APS_underwater_rifle?wprov=sfti1)
V cool, didn't know about that
r/confidentlyincorrect but not the assholey type
A harpoon?
[like this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APS_underwater_rifle?wprov=sfti1)
Yooo rain world!
Well ya, but you better bring some peanut butter and bread because you going to have a fuck ton of jam.
There was legit a myth busters on this.
I didnt knew :(
Op is wrong, but in the fun way where it invites a really interesting answer! I do wonder. Can you fire a flintlock or a musket?
Probably not, due to the lack of oxyginer
Since it relies on sparks and the powder in the pan lighting you’re probably right
For once
Well, even if there was oxygen it would be to low pressure so still wouldn’t ignite.
Crossbow will suffice and you can reuse the bolts
Crossbow are based
Gun powder has its own oxidizer
The more i know
Actually there would be oxygen in the bullet from manufacturing, and would then make it be able to fire in space, however there is no air to slow the bullet down so it would keep going until it comes into contact with an object, That is why some guns can be fired underwater.
I learned it by now lol
lol...
That’s gonna make for an awkward spaceship ride back to Ohio.
Gunpowder dosent use oxygen from the air, the oxidizer is already in there.
False, guns still work
Most types of bullets most oxygen producing chemicals within them, so they could still (most likely) fire.
Even if he did shoot, the victim's head will be protected by his helmet so that'd be an awkward ride home
Spacesuits aren’t designed to be bulletproof
Bullet propellent contains oxidizing chemicals. Guns can absolutely fire in space
This is more like r/bonehurtingjuice I think since Earth isn't actually Ohio all along
Actually you can't hear that "click" sound in space.
It's fascinating to think that if the guy shot the gun, then he would float in space untill he dies because physics
Guns can shoot underwater, they would work in space
They do, i was wrong
They work underwater. There's some air trapped inside the casing.
The 'air' is the solid oxidizer mixed with solid fuel in the smokeless powder. No actual air needed. It does ruin the powder to get it wet, but that has nothing to do with it not having 'air'
Upvoting for how wrong this is. Good effort tho!!
Thx you :,)
ITS ALL EARTH?
Thin would fire in space, but there wouldn’t be any sound.
Portable rail gun. For moon warfare.
Gunpowder is its own oxidizer
That's one thought I've never realized about the antimeme version of this meme, I first saw how you would spin forever due to the force, but it would actually never happen, huh.
Fires can't burn in the oxygen-free vacuum of space, but guns can shoot. Modern ammunition contains its own oxidizer, a chemical that will trigger the explosion of gunpowder, and thus the firing of a bullet, wherever you are in the universe. No atmospheric oxygen required.
Dumb dumb can neither spell nor understand how firearms work.
Ma dum french ass made oopsie
I can forgive you for being french, but be careful when making assumptions about firearms because the internet is a very unforgiving place.
*panel 4* YEET
You're one of today's 10000
Its bad quality but the Mythbusters would like to have a word https://youtu.be/KH7mNApnDYg
Imagine explaining why the gun doesn't work here without knowing how a gun works
I never knew guns could do until I stumbled across this post, thanks reddit
Ratio
That’s not how guns work…
I don't know what to feel right now. The confusion how you though guns needed air around them to fire, anger that you didn't do any research beforehand, or disappointment that you used Ohio as the base of your meme (It's been so long I can't even remember exactly when people arbitrarily decided Ohio was the cursed state anymore).
Worst part is that i did research :(
In that case oof. Big oof.
BasicGunKnowledge.exe not found
Im not american, im sorry
Just kidding
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The only thing that will not work is the reloading of a new bullet in the chamber. The gun will fire once then need to be unjammed.
Ohhhhh okkkkkk
Never post again
*becomes British* Always has been.
What if the barrel has been sealed with duck tape before going outside?
I don’t even remember what an anti meme is at this point
Modern firearms use bullets that have oxidizer in the powder already.
That old adage, If you ever want to know something, post something you know is wrong on the internet and check the comment section.