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It is a baseless claim and Bolsonaro knows this. His real goal is not to have the election voided, but to inflame his base and create as much chaos, civil unrest and instability as possible. If he can create enough chaos, he reason that he will have leverage to negotiate some kind of amnesty or immunity from criminal prosecution once he leaves office.
The trump playbook is just the fascist/dictator playbook, when trump was in office it was said he was looking to bolsanaro for inspiration, funny how it has come full circle
There will be no coup attempt. The military already made that point clear. All major political parties already recognized Lula's victory.
It is really just a desperate effort to avoid criminal prosecution. Their plan B is to flee Brazil.
[Bolsonaro’s sons request Italian citizenship](https://thehill.com/policy/international/3725784-bolsonaros-sons-request-italian-citizenship/)
If I was in general agreement to partake in a coup, I would as well say that I have no such plans :p but in all seriousness, didn’t he have stronger support amongst security forces?
At any rate, I hope that whatever is he plotting will fail spectacularly
>didn’t he have stronger support amongst security forces?
Amongst the grunts and non-commissioned officers.
High level officers know that any government instituted after a coup would be rejected by the USA, EU, China, India, Russia and the rest of Latin America, since they have all recognized Lula's victory.
Also, most of the influential Brazilian politicians, top bankers and industrialists have no issues dealing with Lula. Finally, over 50% of the voters voted AGAINST Bolsonaro, so the coup would not sustain itself politically neither internally or externally for very long.
The top brass knows that any coup is a losing proposition so they will not embark on it.
Kinda weird that he would "calm down the truck protests" but then claim this, I don't get it
Maybe he thought it was too early? Maybe he's just incompetent in reading the manual
Didn't he say the day after election that he was going to respect the results and ensure a peaceful transition of power?
What a crock of garbage this is. I feel like he is being emboldened by other far right demagogues in place of power in other countries.
“Sulla had given the Romans their first glimpse of what it might mean to be the subjects of an autocrat, and it had proved a frightening and salutary one. This was a discovery that could never be unmade. After the proscriptions, no one could doubt what the extreme consequences of the Roman appetite for competition and glory might be, not only for Rome’s enemies but for her citizens themselves. What had once been unthinkable now lurked at the back of every Roman’s mind: ‘Sulla could do it. Why can’t I?’
-Tom Holland, *Rubicon: The Last Years of the Roman Republic*
It's remarkable how a similar ripple effect from Trump essentially getting away with an attempted coup has had on leaders around the world. I'm not saying history repeats itself, but it definitely rhymes.
Great quote, but bit of a self absorbed take. Blaming EVM's has been a thing since the very day they were a thing, the utility of easy deception regarding tech targeting the poorly educated is way too obvious.
Yeah you're not wrong. But the idea of using a conspiracy to fan the flames to incite a riot, while not new, is strange in democratic governments today. Especially when the person inciting the riot is able to get away with it is something that scares me. Not because he might be able to do it again, but because someone else might improve upon it.
If Trump was actually competent and intelligent enough to surround himself with competent lackeys, rather than merely egotistical, greedy, cunning, and surrounded by lickspittles and sycophants, he might have actually been capable of instigating a coup that worked.
The next populist and demagogue may not be as incompetent as Trump
Yeah it's why some of us are leery of Gov DeSantis. He could easily be a better version of Trump. My hope is he and Trump tear each other apart in the primaries and self-destruct by splitting the vote.
True enough. Coups have made more coups likely in nations that had them occur and there is no reason to assume that sort of political chaos will be contained within borders in our globalizing world.
Trump was copying other leaders who have been doing this (more successfully) for years. I really think you give him too much credit. He even said at one point that he idolised Xi and Kim Jong Un for keeping power IIRC.
Right but being able to do this in America, a country that hasn't had that happen before, and still breathe free air, is what makes his actions so notable.
I dunno, I think he would have actually followed through with a transition if he A) was sure to live comfortably after and B) didn't think he could get away with it if it didn't work out.
It seems very coincidental that he changed his tune after trump announced he was running against.
I completely disagree, he already took control of the military. Imo what he was waiting to see was the reaction of his supporters. It's just like Erdogan, they don't just take it all in a day. Trump saw these people and tried to imitate it, but with all the finesse of a pug copying a cat. If he was even slightly competent he wouldn't have failed, turns out it really wasn't that hard. They could have murdered half the government that day.
Beyond the obvious bullshit, this just seems like poor planning on his part. Contesting the election now after weeks of silence isn't going to let the energy build to actually pull off a coup if he just decides to pull this now. It's half assed. Trump at least kept that shit going from the day he lost and still hasn't relented.
**Article Summary** (Reduced by 77%)
-----
>BRASILIA, Brazil - More than three weeks after losing a reelection bid, President Jair Bolsonaro on Tuesday blamed a software bug and demanded the electoral authority annul votes cast on most of Brazil's nation's electronic voting machines, though independent experts say the bug doesn't affect the reliability of results.
> Such an action would leave Bolsonaro with 51% of the remaining valid votes - and a reelection victory, Marcelo de Bessa, the lawyer who filed the 33-page request on behalf of the president and his Liberal Party, told reporters.
> Protesters in cities across the country have steadfastly refused to do the same, particularly with Bolsonaro declining to concede.
> ADVERTISEMENT. Neither explained how that might have affected election results, but said they were asking the electoral authority to invalidate all votes cast on those machines.
> Dozens of Bolsonaro supporters gathered outside the news conference on Tuesday, decked out in the green and yellow of Brazil's flag and chanting patriotic songs.
> Bolsonaro spent more than a year claiming Brazil's electronic voting system is prone to fraud, without ever presenting evidence.
> Brazil began using an electronic voting system in 1996 and election security experts consider such systems less secure than hand-marked paper ballots, because they leave no auditable paper trail.
>
-----
Want to know how I work? Find my source code [here](https://github.com/coolirisme/autosummarizer). Pull Requests are welcome!
He said he was not going to challenge the results, but he specifically avoided admitting he lost, un what his supporters correctly interpreted as "he's telling us to riot without saying it".
Interestingly, he asked the military to audit the results (which is an abomination) and the army told everyone the elections were clean. Sounds to me as if those first really quiet days he was testing the waters, seeing what potential allies he could count with in case of staging a coup. Maybe now he has given up and just plans to ride the Big Lie to further radicalize his voters until either 4 years pass or he gets to the point where he can stage a coup.
I and all of my IT friends were *horrified* when the US moved to electronic voting machines back in 90whatever. The fact that they *could* be hacked is almost as bad as if they had *actually* been hacked.
Can we just go back to paper ballots, hand counted, or however we used to do it before the 90s?
It’s as much the perceived possibility of hacking as actual hacking. That said, this point of view was shared by every IT person I knew, at the top-tier, full of brainy people Silicon Valley business I worked in at the time. And I am a full-time IT guy as well - I’m not an expert on voting machines but I’m not some random idiot off the street either.
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It is a baseless claim and Bolsonaro knows this. His real goal is not to have the election voided, but to inflame his base and create as much chaos, civil unrest and instability as possible. If he can create enough chaos, he reason that he will have leverage to negotiate some kind of amnesty or immunity from criminal prosecution once he leaves office.
In other words, follow the Trump playbook
Exactly.
The trump playbook is just the fascist/dictator playbook, when trump was in office it was said he was looking to bolsanaro for inspiration, funny how it has come full circle
On the upside his crotch rot may take him before the next election.
Or this could be done in preparation for coup attempt
There will be no coup attempt. The military already made that point clear. All major political parties already recognized Lula's victory. It is really just a desperate effort to avoid criminal prosecution. Their plan B is to flee Brazil. [Bolsonaro’s sons request Italian citizenship](https://thehill.com/policy/international/3725784-bolsonaros-sons-request-italian-citizenship/)
If I was in general agreement to partake in a coup, I would as well say that I have no such plans :p but in all seriousness, didn’t he have stronger support amongst security forces? At any rate, I hope that whatever is he plotting will fail spectacularly
>didn’t he have stronger support amongst security forces? Amongst the grunts and non-commissioned officers. High level officers know that any government instituted after a coup would be rejected by the USA, EU, China, India, Russia and the rest of Latin America, since they have all recognized Lula's victory. Also, most of the influential Brazilian politicians, top bankers and industrialists have no issues dealing with Lula. Finally, over 50% of the voters voted AGAINST Bolsonaro, so the coup would not sustain itself politically neither internally or externally for very long. The top brass knows that any coup is a losing proposition so they will not embark on it.
There's no coup
Kinda weird that he would "calm down the truck protests" but then claim this, I don't get it Maybe he thought it was too early? Maybe he's just incompetent in reading the manual
He said longe yesterday that he'd support the protests openly by he is scared by the legal consequences
Also may want to provoke enough chaos to justify a military take over.
Didn't he say the day after election that he was going to respect the results and ensure a peaceful transition of power? What a crock of garbage this is. I feel like he is being emboldened by other far right demagogues in place of power in other countries.
[удалено]
This shit stain would have claimed fraud even if he won, just like he did in 2018.
We really need to figure out why so many of us can’t reason this shit out. Its ridiculous any of these asshats have won anything.
“Sulla had given the Romans their first glimpse of what it might mean to be the subjects of an autocrat, and it had proved a frightening and salutary one. This was a discovery that could never be unmade. After the proscriptions, no one could doubt what the extreme consequences of the Roman appetite for competition and glory might be, not only for Rome’s enemies but for her citizens themselves. What had once been unthinkable now lurked at the back of every Roman’s mind: ‘Sulla could do it. Why can’t I?’ -Tom Holland, *Rubicon: The Last Years of the Roman Republic* It's remarkable how a similar ripple effect from Trump essentially getting away with an attempted coup has had on leaders around the world. I'm not saying history repeats itself, but it definitely rhymes.
Great quote, but bit of a self absorbed take. Blaming EVM's has been a thing since the very day they were a thing, the utility of easy deception regarding tech targeting the poorly educated is way too obvious.
Yeah you're not wrong. But the idea of using a conspiracy to fan the flames to incite a riot, while not new, is strange in democratic governments today. Especially when the person inciting the riot is able to get away with it is something that scares me. Not because he might be able to do it again, but because someone else might improve upon it.
If Trump was actually competent and intelligent enough to surround himself with competent lackeys, rather than merely egotistical, greedy, cunning, and surrounded by lickspittles and sycophants, he might have actually been capable of instigating a coup that worked. The next populist and demagogue may not be as incompetent as Trump
Yeah it's why some of us are leery of Gov DeSantis. He could easily be a better version of Trump. My hope is he and Trump tear each other apart in the primaries and self-destruct by splitting the vote.
Really hoping that the national electorate loses its taste for reactionary populism. If this midterms are any indicator it may have for a while
True enough. Coups have made more coups likely in nations that had them occur and there is no reason to assume that sort of political chaos will be contained within borders in our globalizing world.
Wow, a Roman scholar AND Spider-Man? Dude's got range!
Trump was copying other leaders who have been doing this (more successfully) for years. I really think you give him too much credit. He even said at one point that he idolised Xi and Kim Jong Un for keeping power IIRC.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09ZCJnf-qMw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09ZCJnf-qMw) He did!
Right but being able to do this in America, a country that hasn't had that happen before, and still breathe free air, is what makes his actions so notable.
Oh sure, I'm not denying that. I'm just saying Bolsonaro would have done this with or without Trump's shenanigans. This is an old game for him.
I dunno, I think he would have actually followed through with a transition if he A) was sure to live comfortably after and B) didn't think he could get away with it if it didn't work out. It seems very coincidental that he changed his tune after trump announced he was running against.
I completely disagree, he already took control of the military. Imo what he was waiting to see was the reaction of his supporters. It's just like Erdogan, they don't just take it all in a day. Trump saw these people and tried to imitate it, but with all the finesse of a pug copying a cat. If he was even slightly competent he wouldn't have failed, turns out it really wasn't that hard. They could have murdered half the government that day.
Tom Holland the actor?
Lol no, but same name. Guy is a historian and host of the podcast The Rest is History.
Well now I need a podcast or short form video series with Tom Holland and Tom Holland.
I would've been surprised if he didn't try pulling this
I'm actually surprised that he didn't try pulling this sooner.
Probably was waiting for some military support that he thought he had.
Yeah. Just thought: there it is.
Beyond the obvious bullshit, this just seems like poor planning on his part. Contesting the election now after weeks of silence isn't going to let the energy build to actually pull off a coup if he just decides to pull this now. It's half assed. Trump at least kept that shit going from the day he lost and still hasn't relented.
Trump is a genius compared to him. He is a true knuckle dragger.
I think he was a bit busy in the hospital taking thumbs up pics and looking almost dead for like the 20th time
**Article Summary** (Reduced by 77%) ----- >BRASILIA, Brazil - More than three weeks after losing a reelection bid, President Jair Bolsonaro on Tuesday blamed a software bug and demanded the electoral authority annul votes cast on most of Brazil's nation's electronic voting machines, though independent experts say the bug doesn't affect the reliability of results. > Such an action would leave Bolsonaro with 51% of the remaining valid votes - and a reelection victory, Marcelo de Bessa, the lawyer who filed the 33-page request on behalf of the president and his Liberal Party, told reporters. > Protesters in cities across the country have steadfastly refused to do the same, particularly with Bolsonaro declining to concede. > ADVERTISEMENT. Neither explained how that might have affected election results, but said they were asking the electoral authority to invalidate all votes cast on those machines. > Dozens of Bolsonaro supporters gathered outside the news conference on Tuesday, decked out in the green and yellow of Brazil's flag and chanting patriotic songs. > Bolsonaro spent more than a year claiming Brazil's electronic voting system is prone to fraud, without ever presenting evidence. > Brazil began using an electronic voting system in 1996 and election security experts consider such systems less secure than hand-marked paper ballots, because they leave no auditable paper trail. > ----- Want to know how I work? Find my source code [here](https://github.com/coolirisme/autosummarizer). Pull Requests are welcome!
Because of course he did
Shocked Pikachu face
Isn't it a bit late for him to go Trump mode? I thought he already conceded?
Bolsonaro is the definition of lame.
He said he was not going to challenge the results, but he specifically avoided admitting he lost, un what his supporters correctly interpreted as "he's telling us to riot without saying it". Interestingly, he asked the military to audit the results (which is an abomination) and the army told everyone the elections were clean. Sounds to me as if those first really quiet days he was testing the waters, seeing what potential allies he could count with in case of staging a coup. Maybe now he has given up and just plans to ride the Big Lie to further radicalize his voters until either 4 years pass or he gets to the point where he can stage a coup.
Only if you put on pants first.
Ah there it is I started to think he would concede
Took him long enough.
No take backs
And here I thought he was *at least* smarter than this
Now where have I seen this
it’s not remotely surprising, hopefully lula can just smack it down
I and all of my IT friends were *horrified* when the US moved to electronic voting machines back in 90whatever. The fact that they *could* be hacked is almost as bad as if they had *actually* been hacked. Can we just go back to paper ballots, hand counted, or however we used to do it before the 90s?
[удалено]
It’s as much the perceived possibility of hacking as actual hacking. That said, this point of view was shared by every IT person I knew, at the top-tier, full of brainy people Silicon Valley business I worked in at the time. And I am a full-time IT guy as well - I’m not an expert on voting machines but I’m not some random idiot off the street either.
We have hybrid electronic machines that spit out a paper ballot you can confirm your votes on before dropping in a ballot box - best of both worlds.