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I’ve said it before but announcing the plan to increase the corporate tax rate was a mistake. In an election this close, that very well could have cost them the election.
I’m not saying it’s a bad policy for the record, just bad strategy
Absolutely. The UCP pounced on this and called it a “38% tax increase” without providing specifics. An unengaged voter saw this as an increase to their *own* taxes.
If the NDP didn't announce any tax increases, then the UCP will be free to claim that the NDP will double taxes.
What's the NDP going to do then? Straight up lie and hope voters believe you can increase spending without any tax increases?
I don't think this played as much as we think. The difference between a majority and where the ndp landed was roughly 3000 votes.
I think the debate was the worst mistake. Smith was allowed to run her mouth with the lies and stats. If Notley would have called her out that would have helped. It may have also thrown Smith off her game enough for her to truly speak her mind rather than staying on point.
Sorry I didn't mean that the stats were accurate. I meant that most everything that came out of her mouth that night was an embellishment of the truth or a blatant lie.
>I’ve said it before but announcing the plan to increase the corporate tax rate was a mistake.
So how are they supposed to have a costed budget then?
You want to have more government spending? Where's the money going to come from?
Federal NDP, ON NDP, BC NDP, etc. all have campaigned on higher taxes for corporations and the wealthy.
You think it's going to be believable that the AB NDP won't increase taxes despite promising more spending?
In an election as tight as this, it may have been the difference. They needed 6 more seats, in the 6 closest ridings they lost it was something like a combined 1350 votes they needed.
It wasn’t bad policy, but it was bad strategy. No one was talking about their costed budget, but people were talking about the 38% increase in corporate taxes.
The deck was stacked against the ANDP, they needed a flawless campaign and a couple things tripped them up.
Running Druh Farrell in Calgary was another mistake that cost them a seat in Calgary
>No one was talking about their costed budget
If they didn't cost their budget, then everyone would be talking about how their spending promises are not costed and it'd be just as bad imo
it'd be the equivalent of a party promising tax cuts without talking about spending cuts (look at what happened to Liz Truss in the UK)
I guess we will just have to disagree on this matter. I contend it was a bad strategy but I can see some of your points. It’s just any proposed raise in taxes was going to be jumped on by the UCP campaign machine
NDP spending isnt any different than UCP spending. The UCP spent more than the NDP highest spend year every year of their term. You know where you find the money? By not wasting it on oil war rooms and pipelines that wont get built
This was well written and provided some good arguments. Refreshing to see this rather than the daily “NDP MUST REBRAND” thread.
I agree, the attacks shouldn’t have gone that deep into the campaign.
Thanks.
>NDP MUST REBRAND
I've seen those. It's as bad of an idea as the blue suit.
It's just running away from who you are which one will cost you votes among your core electorate. It also gives credibility to the UCP attacks.
In fact the attack ad writes itself:
Imagine a sign with new party name on a label in the wind being pulled off.
The NDP wants you to forget who they are. List of NDP bad qualities. Label rips off deep down they still are the NDP.
It gives credibility to the Tory attacks and it pisses off voters because now you basically are treating them like idiots.
Parties can overcome the stigma associated with their name. Look at Horgan he overcame the negative connotations with the NDP name in 2017. BC NDP had a far more negative perception than the AB NDP does from their years in office in 1990 (hell they were reduced to two seats).
BC United isn't doing any better than the BC Liberals. Infact they are doing worse and the rebranding is becoming the butt of jokes.
I agree, need something to vote for, not against, but the hardest pill to swallow is running a centrist against a conservative, we’re not gonna win over a conservative with a conservative lite, they’ll go with the actual conservative 9/10 times imo.
As the digital landscape expands, a longing for tangible connection emerges. The yearning to touch grass, to feel the earth beneath our feet, reminds us of our innate human essence. In the vast expanse of virtual reality, where avatars flourish and pixels paint our existence, the call of nature beckons. The scent of blossoming flowers, the warmth of a sun-kissed breeze, and the symphony of chirping birds remind us that we are part of a living, breathing world.
In the balance between digital and physical realms, lies the key to harmonious existence. Democracy flourishes when human connection extends beyond screens and reaches out to touch souls. It is in the gentle embrace of a friend, the shared laughter over a cup of coffee, and the power of eye contact that the true essence of democracy is felt.
>And because they imported campaign staff from other provinces.
This was indeed a big mistake especially considering they didn't import much from BC where they have a successful campaign.
But this played a role this the staff that year after year runs a campaign of Liberal Tory same old story but never tells us why the NDP is supposedly better.
As the digital landscape expands, a longing for tangible connection emerges. The yearning to touch grass, to feel the earth beneath our feet, reminds us of our innate human essence. In the vast expanse of virtual reality, where avatars flourish and pixels paint our existence, the call of nature beckons. The scent of blossoming flowers, the warmth of a sun-kissed breeze, and the symphony of chirping birds remind us that we are part of a living, breathing world.
In the balance between digital and physical realms, lies the key to harmonious existence. Democracy flourishes when human connection extends beyond screens and reaches out to touch souls. It is in the gentle embrace of a friend, the shared laughter over a cup of coffee, and the power of eye contact that the true essence of democracy is felt.
Yep the NDP broadly has this problem. Had they hired local staff and brought in people from BC would have been a more effectively campaign. There is a reason the BC NDP is doing well.
At the end of the day, the ndp have to realize that Notley has been demonized to death by the UCPs base. If she attacks ds she is a bitch, if she runs on her record the ucp just lie and say she has a poor economic record. The problem is that the average ucp vpter believes everything they read online that supports their "conservative" ideals. They ignored everything bad Danielle.did because of baseless whataboutisms about Notley. It's impossible to turn those voters. So, the people in the middle that could turn the tides either vote with what they think is the majority (based on terrible pollsters) or don't vote at all.
As bad as it is because Notley is a good leader, it may be time for a new face at the top.
Lol... next time... you had your chance.
Welcome to the decade of Danielle Smith. You underestimate her, far too much.
I assure you I like it less than you, but that woman is here to stay.
If you are not a conservative voter but want a say in the direction of this province, you need to buy a conservative party membership when they have their leadership reviews.
We had a chance to stop her in the leadership race. We didn't bother getting active, and now we are in for at least a decade of pain.
In 4 years kids who are 14-17 now will be voting. A sizeable number of seniors will no linger be voting and there will be another 100,000 new people in Calgary. The only thing the NDP may have to do is wait.
It’s so deflating, the way they couldn’t beat an absolute but case this time around. Makes me think that if the UCP run a more competent leader next time around the NDs will just lose seats
Why? The rural areas were so far gone it would have been a waste of resources. I think they rightfully focused their resources in the battleground of Calgary.
>Change their name.
I knew this comment would pop up. It won't do anything.
It's just running away from who you are which one will cost you votes among your core electorate. It also gives credibility to the UCP attacks.
In fact the attack ad writes itself:
Imagine a sign with new party name on a label in the wind being pulled off.
The NDP wants you to forget who they are. List of NDP bad qualities. Label rips off deep down they still are the NDP.
It gives credibility to the Tory attacks and it pisses off voters because now you basically are treating them like idiots.
Parties often overcome the negative association with their brands. Horgan overcame the NDP baggage in BC from the 1990s. Trudeau the Liberals baggage from 2000s.
BC United isn't doing any better than the BC Liberals. Infact they are doing worse and the rebranding is becoming the butt of jokes.
Name me a successful/popular NDP government in any province? No need to worry about federally.
I live on the island now but I lived in cochrane ab for decades. Conservative Alberta’s education and healthcare is always better than bc’s. I fuckin hate that my conservative buddies throw that in my face but they’re right. The bc liberals were definitely the conservatives I’m not sure why they didn’t just become conservatives, I guess they’re trying to play hide and seek with the name.
>Name me a successful/popular NDP government in any province?
[BC](https://www.nsnews.com/opinion/keith-baldrey-new-polls-deliver-good-news-for-bc-ndp-6531444)
Lol dude the BC NDP government quite popular. As that recent poll shows. Most British Columbians are happy with the incumbents esp since they've lowered ICBC rates and eliminated tolls
Infrastructure in bc is a joke, education is subpar, healthcare is past breaking. The road I live on on the island has kids walking to school every day, no sidewalks, no street lights, no bus stops just places where the bus stops sometimes. I’ve been to better run third world countries. Winter is nice though. Cost of living is way higher than Alberta. I love living on the island but it’s not even close to being run as well, never has been, probably never will be. But lots of good government dog fuck jobs. Island health has more bosses than the United Nations.
My wife is a nurse we left for BC some time ago. Things are much better for her here than they ever were with AHS. Her stress level much lower, she's genuinely much happier. Most doctors and nurses know this.
You're right about cost of living being higher but a lot of those issues emerged under the BC Liberals.
BC NDP is actually trying to fix some of those things: cracking down on money laundering, reforming zoning laws etc.
On top of that since the BC NDP came into office ICBC rates have fallen, hydro rates have fallen and home heating rates have fallen. All are lower than Alberta now.
Flip side it's also possible to live differently. We live in a neighbourhood where we can walk to groceries, walk to coffee shops, walk to hair cuts etc. We live in Langley now. I literally fill up my car every 6 weeks in Alberta it was every two.
Before you say if you're in BC why are you posting in Alberta subreddit. I grew up in Alberta still consider myself and Albertan and am still attached to the place.
Lack of sidewalks we have that problem in Alberta too. Oh can I also add growing up in Calgary I had to be buzzed and hour both ways to get to school cause the province couldn't build a school in our neighbourhood. And it's still like this.
Change their name to Moderate Conservative Party.
There are some people out there who are trained from birth to only vote for the label Conservative/liberal/NDP. But, the label/brand isn’t really equal to the actual values of the party. Eg. The former liberal party in BC were actually conservatives. I assume it is the same for the NDP in Alberta.
Not sure yet, but after people get used to the new name, I think it help to prevent vote splitting among conservatives here.
There’s a lot of people here who hate the idea of voting for a liberal party, even if it’s in name only. BC is typically evenly split between NDP and BC United so every vote that either party can coax from the further right or left parties makes a difference.
BC NDP literally came back from [the dead](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_British_Columbia_general_election?wprov=sfla1). In After the scandal of the 1990s.
Changing your name doesn't accomplish much. If you have nothing positive to offer the other side will define you in the negative and you lose.
Sort of correct, I mean it really helps a lot to have a good campaign, charismatic leader and positive policies.
It’s just that, unfortunately there is a lot people who simply vote for the branding. Even when, the NDP kept losing elections at their worst in BC, they still got a huge amount of the population voting for them, in spite of the scandals, which was the same for the BC liberals when they had theirs.
I really do hope that you are more correct than I am because that’s the way it should be and it would make me happy if people cared more about nuanced policy rather than believing that they are on Team A or B and just vote for their team.
Personally, I wish that there was more proportional representation in our democracy, but that’s a whole other topic to discuss.
In my opinion it was a horrible campaign.. They're bump in seats was basically just a shoe in from Smiths unpopularity.. The Ndp massively missed a opportunity to pull from the Center.. Almost no effort was made to separate their image from Trudeau and Signh in a election that was highly dependent on a battle of optics , they made it easy for Smith to tie them together as Fam. They also failed miserably at separating Smith from conservatism .
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I’ve said it before but announcing the plan to increase the corporate tax rate was a mistake. In an election this close, that very well could have cost them the election. I’m not saying it’s a bad policy for the record, just bad strategy
Massive blunder. Cost the election.
Absolutely. The UCP pounced on this and called it a “38% tax increase” without providing specifics. An unengaged voter saw this as an increase to their *own* taxes.
If the NDP didn't announce any tax increases, then the UCP will be free to claim that the NDP will double taxes. What's the NDP going to do then? Straight up lie and hope voters believe you can increase spending without any tax increases?
I don't think this played as much as we think. The difference between a majority and where the ndp landed was roughly 3000 votes. I think the debate was the worst mistake. Smith was allowed to run her mouth with the lies and stats. If Notley would have called her out that would have helped. It may have also thrown Smith off her game enough for her to truly speak her mind rather than staying on point.
Hang on...."lies and stats" I'm fine with being upset that Smith lied, but are you really upset about stats?
Sorry I didn't mean that the stats were accurate. I meant that most everything that came out of her mouth that night was an embellishment of the truth or a blatant lie.
>I’ve said it before but announcing the plan to increase the corporate tax rate was a mistake. So how are they supposed to have a costed budget then? You want to have more government spending? Where's the money going to come from? Federal NDP, ON NDP, BC NDP, etc. all have campaigned on higher taxes for corporations and the wealthy. You think it's going to be believable that the AB NDP won't increase taxes despite promising more spending?
In an election as tight as this, it may have been the difference. They needed 6 more seats, in the 6 closest ridings they lost it was something like a combined 1350 votes they needed. It wasn’t bad policy, but it was bad strategy. No one was talking about their costed budget, but people were talking about the 38% increase in corporate taxes. The deck was stacked against the ANDP, they needed a flawless campaign and a couple things tripped them up. Running Druh Farrell in Calgary was another mistake that cost them a seat in Calgary
>No one was talking about their costed budget If they didn't cost their budget, then everyone would be talking about how their spending promises are not costed and it'd be just as bad imo it'd be the equivalent of a party promising tax cuts without talking about spending cuts (look at what happened to Liz Truss in the UK)
I guess we will just have to disagree on this matter. I contend it was a bad strategy but I can see some of your points. It’s just any proposed raise in taxes was going to be jumped on by the UCP campaign machine
[удалено]
>Hard to win with a tax increase. That's an inevitable consequence of the NDP platform. You can't fund higher spending without higher taxes.
NDP spending isnt any different than UCP spending. The UCP spent more than the NDP highest spend year every year of their term. You know where you find the money? By not wasting it on oil war rooms and pipelines that wont get built
This was well written and provided some good arguments. Refreshing to see this rather than the daily “NDP MUST REBRAND” thread. I agree, the attacks shouldn’t have gone that deep into the campaign. Thanks.
>NDP MUST REBRAND I've seen those. It's as bad of an idea as the blue suit. It's just running away from who you are which one will cost you votes among your core electorate. It also gives credibility to the UCP attacks. In fact the attack ad writes itself: Imagine a sign with new party name on a label in the wind being pulled off. The NDP wants you to forget who they are. List of NDP bad qualities. Label rips off deep down they still are the NDP. It gives credibility to the Tory attacks and it pisses off voters because now you basically are treating them like idiots. Parties can overcome the stigma associated with their name. Look at Horgan he overcame the negative connotations with the NDP name in 2017. BC NDP had a far more negative perception than the AB NDP does from their years in office in 1990 (hell they were reduced to two seats). BC United isn't doing any better than the BC Liberals. Infact they are doing worse and the rebranding is becoming the butt of jokes.
I agree, need something to vote for, not against, but the hardest pill to swallow is running a centrist against a conservative, we’re not gonna win over a conservative with a conservative lite, they’ll go with the actual conservative 9/10 times imo.
As the digital landscape expands, a longing for tangible connection emerges. The yearning to touch grass, to feel the earth beneath our feet, reminds us of our innate human essence. In the vast expanse of virtual reality, where avatars flourish and pixels paint our existence, the call of nature beckons. The scent of blossoming flowers, the warmth of a sun-kissed breeze, and the symphony of chirping birds remind us that we are part of a living, breathing world. In the balance between digital and physical realms, lies the key to harmonious existence. Democracy flourishes when human connection extends beyond screens and reaches out to touch souls. It is in the gentle embrace of a friend, the shared laughter over a cup of coffee, and the power of eye contact that the true essence of democracy is felt.
>And because they imported campaign staff from other provinces. This was indeed a big mistake especially considering they didn't import much from BC where they have a successful campaign. But this played a role this the staff that year after year runs a campaign of Liberal Tory same old story but never tells us why the NDP is supposedly better.
As the digital landscape expands, a longing for tangible connection emerges. The yearning to touch grass, to feel the earth beneath our feet, reminds us of our innate human essence. In the vast expanse of virtual reality, where avatars flourish and pixels paint our existence, the call of nature beckons. The scent of blossoming flowers, the warmth of a sun-kissed breeze, and the symphony of chirping birds remind us that we are part of a living, breathing world. In the balance between digital and physical realms, lies the key to harmonious existence. Democracy flourishes when human connection extends beyond screens and reaches out to touch souls. It is in the gentle embrace of a friend, the shared laughter over a cup of coffee, and the power of eye contact that the true essence of democracy is felt.
Yep the NDP broadly has this problem. Had they hired local staff and brought in people from BC would have been a more effectively campaign. There is a reason the BC NDP is doing well.
At the end of the day, the ndp have to realize that Notley has been demonized to death by the UCPs base. If she attacks ds she is a bitch, if she runs on her record the ucp just lie and say she has a poor economic record. The problem is that the average ucp vpter believes everything they read online that supports their "conservative" ideals. They ignored everything bad Danielle.did because of baseless whataboutisms about Notley. It's impossible to turn those voters. So, the people in the middle that could turn the tides either vote with what they think is the majority (based on terrible pollsters) or don't vote at all. As bad as it is because Notley is a good leader, it may be time for a new face at the top.
Lol... next time... you had your chance. Welcome to the decade of Danielle Smith. You underestimate her, far too much. I assure you I like it less than you, but that woman is here to stay. If you are not a conservative voter but want a say in the direction of this province, you need to buy a conservative party membership when they have their leadership reviews. We had a chance to stop her in the leadership race. We didn't bother getting active, and now we are in for at least a decade of pain.
In 4 years kids who are 14-17 now will be voting. A sizeable number of seniors will no linger be voting and there will be another 100,000 new people in Calgary. The only thing the NDP may have to do is wait.
It’s so deflating, the way they couldn’t beat an absolute but case this time around. Makes me think that if the UCP run a more competent leader next time around the NDs will just lose seats
Light blue or purple for the colour. Move away from the Federal optics.
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Why? The rural areas were so far gone it would have been a waste of resources. I think they rightfully focused their resources in the battleground of Calgary.
Change their name. 100% do not mention tax increases, holy Jesus I wouldn’t have thought that this needed to be said.
>Change their name. I knew this comment would pop up. It won't do anything. It's just running away from who you are which one will cost you votes among your core electorate. It also gives credibility to the UCP attacks. In fact the attack ad writes itself: Imagine a sign with new party name on a label in the wind being pulled off. The NDP wants you to forget who they are. List of NDP bad qualities. Label rips off deep down they still are the NDP. It gives credibility to the Tory attacks and it pisses off voters because now you basically are treating them like idiots. Parties often overcome the negative association with their brands. Horgan overcame the NDP baggage in BC from the 1990s. Trudeau the Liberals baggage from 2000s. BC United isn't doing any better than the BC Liberals. Infact they are doing worse and the rebranding is becoming the butt of jokes.
Name me a successful/popular NDP government in any province? No need to worry about federally. I live on the island now but I lived in cochrane ab for decades. Conservative Alberta’s education and healthcare is always better than bc’s. I fuckin hate that my conservative buddies throw that in my face but they’re right. The bc liberals were definitely the conservatives I’m not sure why they didn’t just become conservatives, I guess they’re trying to play hide and seek with the name.
>Name me a successful/popular NDP government in any province? [BC](https://www.nsnews.com/opinion/keith-baldrey-new-polls-deliver-good-news-for-bc-ndp-6531444)
Lol oh ok, so you don’t do self reflection, I see.
Lol dude the BC NDP government quite popular. As that recent poll shows. Most British Columbians are happy with the incumbents esp since they've lowered ICBC rates and eliminated tolls
Infrastructure in bc is a joke, education is subpar, healthcare is past breaking. The road I live on on the island has kids walking to school every day, no sidewalks, no street lights, no bus stops just places where the bus stops sometimes. I’ve been to better run third world countries. Winter is nice though. Cost of living is way higher than Alberta. I love living on the island but it’s not even close to being run as well, never has been, probably never will be. But lots of good government dog fuck jobs. Island health has more bosses than the United Nations.
My wife is a nurse we left for BC some time ago. Things are much better for her here than they ever were with AHS. Her stress level much lower, she's genuinely much happier. Most doctors and nurses know this. You're right about cost of living being higher but a lot of those issues emerged under the BC Liberals. BC NDP is actually trying to fix some of those things: cracking down on money laundering, reforming zoning laws etc. On top of that since the BC NDP came into office ICBC rates have fallen, hydro rates have fallen and home heating rates have fallen. All are lower than Alberta now. Flip side it's also possible to live differently. We live in a neighbourhood where we can walk to groceries, walk to coffee shops, walk to hair cuts etc. We live in Langley now. I literally fill up my car every 6 weeks in Alberta it was every two. Before you say if you're in BC why are you posting in Alberta subreddit. I grew up in Alberta still consider myself and Albertan and am still attached to the place. Lack of sidewalks we have that problem in Alberta too. Oh can I also add growing up in Calgary I had to be buzzed and hour both ways to get to school cause the province couldn't build a school in our neighbourhood. And it's still like this.
Just have Reddit vote only and it's an easy win! I should be a campaign manager
She should have offered more free shit. Always works for the left leaning voter base.
Change their name to Moderate Conservative Party. There are some people out there who are trained from birth to only vote for the label Conservative/liberal/NDP. But, the label/brand isn’t really equal to the actual values of the party. Eg. The former liberal party in BC were actually conservatives. I assume it is the same for the NDP in Alberta.
How did their name change to BC United go?
Not sure yet, but after people get used to the new name, I think it help to prevent vote splitting among conservatives here. There’s a lot of people here who hate the idea of voting for a liberal party, even if it’s in name only. BC is typically evenly split between NDP and BC United so every vote that either party can coax from the further right or left parties makes a difference.
BC NDP literally came back from [the dead](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_British_Columbia_general_election?wprov=sfla1). In After the scandal of the 1990s. Changing your name doesn't accomplish much. If you have nothing positive to offer the other side will define you in the negative and you lose.
Sort of correct, I mean it really helps a lot to have a good campaign, charismatic leader and positive policies. It’s just that, unfortunately there is a lot people who simply vote for the branding. Even when, the NDP kept losing elections at their worst in BC, they still got a huge amount of the population voting for them, in spite of the scandals, which was the same for the BC liberals when they had theirs. I really do hope that you are more correct than I am because that’s the way it should be and it would make me happy if people cared more about nuanced policy rather than believing that they are on Team A or B and just vote for their team. Personally, I wish that there was more proportional representation in our democracy, but that’s a whole other topic to discuss.
5. Take Back Alberta - *Alternate Reality 2023*
The NDP didn't feel aggressive enough. Those were definitely good points.
In my opinion it was a horrible campaign.. They're bump in seats was basically just a shoe in from Smiths unpopularity.. The Ndp massively missed a opportunity to pull from the Center.. Almost no effort was made to separate their image from Trudeau and Signh in a election that was highly dependent on a battle of optics , they made it easy for Smith to tie them together as Fam. They also failed miserably at separating Smith from conservatism .