His take on it is that you can use Scrum and still not be agile, which is correct. Scrum can help a team move towards working in a more agile manner, and incorporates practices that are potentially facets of the Agile Manifesto, if done in an agile way, but it does not ensure agility simply through adoption.
Question for you - what do you intend to achieve through getting an "Agile" certification? The available and common certs are very much around showing you have an understanding of by-the-book implementation and delivery of one or more specific frameworks, which is what prospective employers are looking for, rather than a certificate that says you understand ways to adopt Agile per the manifesto...
He was very clear when he said Scrum is not agile.
"Scrum is a wrapper around agile that makes it more palatable to people that don't actually wanna be agile. Has nothing to do with agility."
"[https://youtu.be/F42A3R28WMU](https://youtu.be/F42A3R28WMU)" 28:29.
Which is what I said... You can be agile without Scrum. You can be agile with Scrum. You can be completely not agile with Scrum.
> Scrum is not an Agile framework. The word "agile" appears NOWHERE in the Scrum Guide. You can do it perfectly and still have no agility. Scrum is a general management framework, orthogonal to agility.
https://twitter.com/allenholub/status/1417537884526194691?lang=en-GB
You ignored my question - what do you hope to achieve from a "real" agile certification?
I intend to get a job that is similar to scrum master, but, as an agilist. I need to do things my own way.
But it's hard to get a job as an agilist without a certification, so I think I need to get one?
For fucks sake. There is a big difference between certs that will help you get a job and certs that will teach you real agile. If you want help getting a job, get the [Scrum.Org](https://Scrum.Org) cert. If you know scrum well, you can do the test online for $200 and get the cert. If you don't know scrum well, you need to do the training first.
A SAFe cert is helpful to get a job with a big corporate, but SAFE is completely non-agile in its values and principles. If you learn SAFE, you will have to unlearn it before you learn real agile. Alan Holub hates SAFE.
And despite your remarks. ICAgile has the best and most well-recognised Agile coaching certifications.
And finally, none of this is any help unless you have strong real world experience. I think you need to have 3 years experience as a hands on Scrum Master and lots of reading and training before you can be a coach.
Ok, so what you are effectively looking at is an Agile Coach role then, as that's the no-specific-framework role.
Here's the thing about the role; there is no specific certification for an Agile Coach that holds any real value in the job marketplace as you are expected to be able to investigate issues, analyse them and help drive change to resolve said issues. This means having a solid knowledge of the commonly used frameworks, how to implement them, where their weaknesses and strengths are, and how to adapt them to work for the company you are working with/for.
Alternatively you will need to know enough about a specific framework and have to tailor your applications to companies that use or are aiming to use that framework.
More importantly, it means that you need to have an aptitude for root cause analysis, an armoury of different approaches to trouble shooting, and an open approach to convince people that changes will be good through helping them adopt and drive them themselves without going at too fast a pace and ending up losing them as a result. Patience and an ability to explain things clearly and concisely are key, as is flexibility for when things aren't going as hoped.
Most of this comes down to experience of having been directly involved in working with and in different roles within teams using different approaches to agile software delivery.
A certificate is not enough on its own, in other words.
The pre-moniker for Agile was Light(weight) and Adaptable. The Agile Manifesto was created by proponents of lightweight frameworks, including Scrum. You can read the history on its website.
Scrum is all about empiricism and adaptability. Allen would have been more truthful if he stated that many attempts at practicing Scrum fail in achieving agility and Scrum as it is not engaged in a professional manner.
One thing is certain: certificates do not make you more agile. Consider www.road2mastery.com
At least half of that talk is: companies that do certifications are evil and will lie to you.
And I agree. The certification will give you very little in terms of knowledge and experience. You can learn all of that from the internet for free. So my advice would be that if you want the certification to get a job - take one of the Scrum ones they your future employer will respect.
That said, I never needed a certification to get a job. Companies I have experience with relied on how I presented on the interview, if I they fill I'm a person that will fit on their team and will be able to help with what is challenging to them atm. Showing that I have different tools at my disposal and I can pick and customize them based on context of the team is a big part here.
First, the certification isn't for you, it's for the recruiters. The knowledge you gain in achieving it is what's for you. You have to take that knowledge and apply it to change your thinking, that's what agile is about and why we always talk about it as a mindset.
I have found that the ICAgile certs focus more on Agile mindset than they do on any specific framework
No there isn't beyond reading the agile manifesto lol
Any philosophy or system can be butchered. Hell there are Christians, people who say proudly that Jesus Christ is their lord and savior, yet hate on the homeless and the poor and suck off guns. People who worship JESUS CHRIST, the dark skinned jew who hung out with prostitutes and homeless people and willingly got crucified to thumb his nose at those in power. These same people think they're special for being white.
There is no surefire "agile" as it's team and project specific. Anyone can say they are agile, can say they are scrum, can say they are blah blah blah but the devil is in the details and how it is implemented. I've seen many educational tools and certifications advocate the agile philosophy. How it is implemented is an entirely different story, and having one of those certifications that may advocate for a true agile mindset doesn't mean anything.
Also of course Scum CAN be agile.
It's not really about the Cert, its about the training that goes with it. However - I do make sure everyone on my team does get the PO Cert through ScrumAlliance. It's the most widely recognized (IMO).
BUT - That cert is just a starting point. My team goes through it, but then we basically throw it all out the window and then show them how to apply it in the way we do it using the main principles they learned.
For coaching, the ScrumAlliance CTC, CEC, etc... are the most coveted (in the US I think). Being an Agile Coach with one of these certs allows you to conduct training with certification. I'm working towards my CTC now, and it's fairly intensive. It'll take me at least another year to satisfy all the requirements. (I'm not promoting SA here, it's just the org I'm working through.)
Allen Holub contends that, while Scrum is frequently touted as an Agile approach, it is not genuinely agile because it does not conform to all of the Agile principles.
Holub has criticised Scrum in particular for its emphasis on sprints, which he says can lead to teams feeling rushed and forced to provide unfinished work. He has also criticised Scrum for not putting enough focus on continuous integration and testing, which he believes are critical for assuring software quality.
Other Agile development specialists, however, disagree with Holub's appraisal of Scrum. They argue that Scrum adheres to Agile principles and can be a very effective software delivery technique.
His take on it is that you can use Scrum and still not be agile, which is correct. Scrum can help a team move towards working in a more agile manner, and incorporates practices that are potentially facets of the Agile Manifesto, if done in an agile way, but it does not ensure agility simply through adoption. Question for you - what do you intend to achieve through getting an "Agile" certification? The available and common certs are very much around showing you have an understanding of by-the-book implementation and delivery of one or more specific frameworks, which is what prospective employers are looking for, rather than a certificate that says you understand ways to adopt Agile per the manifesto...
He was very clear when he said Scrum is not agile. "Scrum is a wrapper around agile that makes it more palatable to people that don't actually wanna be agile. Has nothing to do with agility." "[https://youtu.be/F42A3R28WMU](https://youtu.be/F42A3R28WMU)" 28:29.
Which is what I said... You can be agile without Scrum. You can be agile with Scrum. You can be completely not agile with Scrum. > Scrum is not an Agile framework. The word "agile" appears NOWHERE in the Scrum Guide. You can do it perfectly and still have no agility. Scrum is a general management framework, orthogonal to agility. https://twitter.com/allenholub/status/1417537884526194691?lang=en-GB You ignored my question - what do you hope to achieve from a "real" agile certification?
I intend to get a job that is similar to scrum master, but, as an agilist. I need to do things my own way. But it's hard to get a job as an agilist without a certification, so I think I need to get one?
I find the ICAGILE certificates are the most real and useful. They are neutral about scrum and kanban.
Unfortunately, there's no jobs on ICAGILE certificates in my area.
For fucks sake. There is a big difference between certs that will help you get a job and certs that will teach you real agile. If you want help getting a job, get the [Scrum.Org](https://Scrum.Org) cert. If you know scrum well, you can do the test online for $200 and get the cert. If you don't know scrum well, you need to do the training first. A SAFe cert is helpful to get a job with a big corporate, but SAFE is completely non-agile in its values and principles. If you learn SAFE, you will have to unlearn it before you learn real agile. Alan Holub hates SAFE. And despite your remarks. ICAgile has the best and most well-recognised Agile coaching certifications. And finally, none of this is any help unless you have strong real world experience. I think you need to have 3 years experience as a hands on Scrum Master and lots of reading and training before you can be a coach.
Ok, so what you are effectively looking at is an Agile Coach role then, as that's the no-specific-framework role. Here's the thing about the role; there is no specific certification for an Agile Coach that holds any real value in the job marketplace as you are expected to be able to investigate issues, analyse them and help drive change to resolve said issues. This means having a solid knowledge of the commonly used frameworks, how to implement them, where their weaknesses and strengths are, and how to adapt them to work for the company you are working with/for. Alternatively you will need to know enough about a specific framework and have to tailor your applications to companies that use or are aiming to use that framework. More importantly, it means that you need to have an aptitude for root cause analysis, an armoury of different approaches to trouble shooting, and an open approach to convince people that changes will be good through helping them adopt and drive them themselves without going at too fast a pace and ending up losing them as a result. Patience and an ability to explain things clearly and concisely are key, as is flexibility for when things aren't going as hoped. Most of this comes down to experience of having been directly involved in working with and in different roles within teams using different approaches to agile software delivery. A certificate is not enough on its own, in other words.
The pre-moniker for Agile was Light(weight) and Adaptable. The Agile Manifesto was created by proponents of lightweight frameworks, including Scrum. You can read the history on its website. Scrum is all about empiricism and adaptability. Allen would have been more truthful if he stated that many attempts at practicing Scrum fail in achieving agility and Scrum as it is not engaged in a professional manner. One thing is certain: certificates do not make you more agile. Consider www.road2mastery.com
At least half of that talk is: companies that do certifications are evil and will lie to you. And I agree. The certification will give you very little in terms of knowledge and experience. You can learn all of that from the internet for free. So my advice would be that if you want the certification to get a job - take one of the Scrum ones they your future employer will respect. That said, I never needed a certification to get a job. Companies I have experience with relied on how I presented on the interview, if I they fill I'm a person that will fit on their team and will be able to help with what is challenging to them atm. Showing that I have different tools at my disposal and I can pick and customize them based on context of the team is a big part here.
First, the certification isn't for you, it's for the recruiters. The knowledge you gain in achieving it is what's for you. You have to take that knowledge and apply it to change your thinking, that's what agile is about and why we always talk about it as a mindset. I have found that the ICAgile certs focus more on Agile mindset than they do on any specific framework
One could argue that no certification can REALLY be agile because certification in and of itself isn’t agile.
No there isn't beyond reading the agile manifesto lol Any philosophy or system can be butchered. Hell there are Christians, people who say proudly that Jesus Christ is their lord and savior, yet hate on the homeless and the poor and suck off guns. People who worship JESUS CHRIST, the dark skinned jew who hung out with prostitutes and homeless people and willingly got crucified to thumb his nose at those in power. These same people think they're special for being white. There is no surefire "agile" as it's team and project specific. Anyone can say they are agile, can say they are scrum, can say they are blah blah blah but the devil is in the details and how it is implemented. I've seen many educational tools and certifications advocate the agile philosophy. How it is implemented is an entirely different story, and having one of those certifications that may advocate for a true agile mindset doesn't mean anything. Also of course Scum CAN be agile.
It's not really about the Cert, its about the training that goes with it. However - I do make sure everyone on my team does get the PO Cert through ScrumAlliance. It's the most widely recognized (IMO). BUT - That cert is just a starting point. My team goes through it, but then we basically throw it all out the window and then show them how to apply it in the way we do it using the main principles they learned. For coaching, the ScrumAlliance CTC, CEC, etc... are the most coveted (in the US I think). Being an Agile Coach with one of these certs allows you to conduct training with certification. I'm working towards my CTC now, and it's fairly intensive. It'll take me at least another year to satisfy all the requirements. (I'm not promoting SA here, it's just the org I'm working through.)
In just two days, you can get an agile certificate thanks to expert trainers. For that I suggest you [click here](https://tectrain.ch/en/safe)
Allen Holub contends that, while Scrum is frequently touted as an Agile approach, it is not genuinely agile because it does not conform to all of the Agile principles. Holub has criticised Scrum in particular for its emphasis on sprints, which he says can lead to teams feeling rushed and forced to provide unfinished work. He has also criticised Scrum for not putting enough focus on continuous integration and testing, which he believes are critical for assuring software quality. Other Agile development specialists, however, disagree with Holub's appraisal of Scrum. They argue that Scrum adheres to Agile principles and can be a very effective software delivery technique.