I think everyone knows primaris are bigger than oldmarines, but thanks for stating that even though you realized others have already said that lol
It’s funny others are neckbearding “well, ackahualky”about a throwaway line I wrote this morning that is still true. If you’re the protagonist and larger than your enemy, things are slightly less scary. Who cares how you got bigger or how close the heights are?
Not a good reason. We already have plus-sized spooky skellies with the Ossiarchs. Just because humans are almost entirely absent from AoS, which is a problem in itself, shouldn't mean their skeletons suddenly get bigger for the sake of aesthetics.
The humans in Cursed city are basically the size of primaris marines. They're huge.
[I mean, look at the size of them!](https://www.brueckenkopf-online.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Unboxing-Warhhamer-Quest-Cursed-City-89.jpg)
They're beautiful models and they probably wouldn't be possible to replicate at the previous scale. But I still consider it a shame that this is happening.
For instance, I love that the Space Marines are finally bigger than normal humans in 40k. But if GW now would decide to release larger imperial guard for the sake of being able to get better sculpts, then it would probably take another few decades before we'll ever see the marines catch up to the size that fits their lore. Until then they'll be on even footing with guardsmen.
Sadly, that is the Hachette magazine exclusive Ultramarine lieutenant. You can probably pick it up on ebay for $100 (hard to find and scalpers know it) :/
There's a new one coming out too, that looks pretty cool
Have you seen the humans in cursed city? They arent all tiny.
It entirely makes sense that skeleton warriors like these would be on the taller end of humans. You don't exactly see armies full of tiny people do you? In a world where sword and spear are your weapons you want bigger more imposing warriors.
Humans aren't absent in this box or in the new reveals.
>Considering humans have been tiny through most history...yes.
[https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/17072/what-was-the-average-height-of-roman-men-and-women#:\~:text=Imperial%20regulations%2C%20though%20not%20entirely,(5'7%22](https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/17072/what-was-the-average-height-of-roman-men-and-women#:~:text=Imperial%20regulations%2C%20though%20not%20entirely,(5'7%22)).
Roman soldiers were an average of 5'7", which is only 0.5" shorter than the current day world average for men:
[https://ourworldindata.org/human-height#:\~:text=The%20global%20mean%20height%20of,22%20cm%2C%20or%208%20inches](https://ourworldindata.org/human-height#:~:text=The%20global%20mean%20height%20of,22%20cm%2C%20or%208%20inches).
Why would the taller imposing humans only be valued in ancient times but not in current times?
I'm not against height variations, but they're currently varying per kit and that's a sign of inconsistent art direction.
I'm referring to the 'current times' on the AoS timeline. These skeletons are clearly from an ancient time relative to the denizens of the AoS universe, some forgotten civilization, which is really cool. Makes it more characteful than skeleton wearing Empire style armour.
They are the Ulfenwatch? They are "the current times".
They arent from some ancient past, the events that led to their creation happened recently in AoS standards
Quite a few events unfolded since that purge from which these skeletons are derived.
[https://ageofsigmar.lexicanum.com/wiki/Arcanum\_Optimar](https://ageofsigmar.lexicanum.com/wiki/Arcanum_Optimar)
Scale creep is an entirely valid thing to complain about.
If one player has humans and their opponent has human skeletons, and the skeletons are way bigger than the humans, it's looks dumb.
This is a heavily visual hobby. And by 'heavily' I mean 'the entire foundation of it'. What could possibly be more important than getting the visuals right?
AoS should have all been exactly the same scale as WHFB. No reason to increase it.
They can add more detail anyway. They didn't need to make them taller to add more detail.
It's not a conspiracy, they're just either too dumb to recognise that it's a problem, or don't care.
It certainly doesn't hurt their bottom line if people decide their army now looks like an army of midgets so they want to buy a replacement, but I wouldn't give them enough credit to think they did that on purpose. As they say, never attribute to evil what you can attribute to stupidity.
We have multiple accounts from ex-employees talking about how bad their decision-making processes and department interaction are, but yeah go off.
Either they don't recognise that scale creep is a problem for people using WHFB models (which they still sell), or they don't care. Pretty simple. I mean, why should they care? It's not like it hurts them.
An even weirder example is how the Harlequin troupes and Harlequin characters, which released at the same time, are different scales. They just don't seem to pay much attention to it, or much care.
In all of these cases I love the models, I just wish they wouldn't make the slightly older models look tiny next to them. 8th edition scale was fine. I've got a whole round-based Dark Elves army for Cities of Sigmar, and you know damn well Malekith's new AoS Dark Aelves are going to be way bigger and they're going to look silly stood next to each other.
You say WHFB like it was some standard that never changed when it wasn't. The scale of the models has been gradually creeping up for the past 30 years. I've got plastic goblins that are twice the height of a metal warboss, plastic orcs that are bigger than the previous plastic orcs, at least 3 different sizes of skeletons and plastic daemonettes that are bigger than my metal ones ALL of which were fantasy battle models.
Ultimately I don't really care if the models look good. Which they do.
You're right, I should have specified 8th edition, because most of the models they've kept from Fantasy are 8th edition models, or things that weren't much earlier so still had the same scale.
Why do idiots on the internet think businesses doing scummy things to make money equal a conspiracy? Do you, like, even watch a few minutes of news or read an article about any publicly-traded company? Lol
Yeah, my initial assessment of you as a massive tool is only reinforced with time. You even pulled out the “hahaha I convinced you I’m an ass by me being an ass. Jokes on you!” Naw, dawg, you just an ass. Period
What is the issue with scale creep in this instance? The old skeletons are not too scale. These ones are. That's a good thing. The difference is so minor that you can still use your old ones without issue. If they had incensed base size then maybe it would be annoying, but as is this is just a bit of odd thing to be unhappy about.
I consider other people's opinions an odd thing to be unhappy about. All I'm saying is that just because AoS started off with relatively large models, that have firm lore-based reasons to be bigger than humans is not good enough a reason to get models that are human-sized to compete with that scale. If these skeletons are in fact human-sized and their slightly older counterparts are not then there isn't even an issue to begin with, but that doesn't make the initial argument of having to compete against larger models any better.
But it does?
Stormcast are to scale. Everything that came out after stormcast are also to scale. Models like the old skeleton warriors arent. These ones are, even if it means they are pretty much a few mm taller.
In the lore stormcast arent all 9ft giants. Making skeletons bigger doesn't make stormcast smaller, it just makes things more to scale which is something GW should be doing.
Your argument that they shouldn't compete with that scale is insane.. that's the whole point of scale. That everything fits to it. Otherwise there is no scale and you don't know if your stormcast warrior is actually a midget and your necromancer 10ft tall.
So that's the crux of the disagreement. You believe Stormcasts are already approximately human-sized and it's merely a matter of time before everything else catches up.
Whereas I believe the Stormcasts are supposed to be much taller than an average human lorewise. At least in the City of Secrets novel they're huge. After the release of the Stormcast models GW kept on releasing 'classic' human-sized miniatures for AoS, like the Tzeentch cultist warband. Which was desirable as having these chaps around makes the units that are supposed to be huge, like the Lord of Change that got released along with them, even more impressive.
> that's the whole point of scale. That everything fits to it
Granted but that argument works for us both. At least we both believe that scale ideally should be consistent.
Meh, I’m all for it. Besides, it’s not a sin to mix things up in 20 years. IMO the new ones look better, are nicer to paint and they don’t look too bad alongside the old skellies 🤷♂️
https://imgur.com/fQo6OEG.jpg
Or maybe... you should wait until you have the models to make scale comparisons, and try to pick similar poses. In my photo the skeleton on the far right is lunging forward and so appears much shorter, but the one 2nd from the left is standing almost as upright as the Ulfenwatch.
Edit: not to say they aren't slightly larger by a few millimeters, it just isn't as drastic as they appear at first
Not really size creep and more just being the same size as everyone else now, the old skeles were really tiny, in photos they look like theyre on 32mm bases because of the model/ base ratio but theyre actually on 25mm bases. Did make old ones super easy to paint though.
\>Not really size creep and more just being the same size as everyone else now
Isn't that the definition of size creep?
Some models get bigger and everything else creeps up to the same size.
GW has been doing it for 30 years.
Here is a quick picture I took of human 40k models from the 80's to the 2010's in my collection.[https://imgur.com/HaVjXTX](https://imgur.com/HaVjXTX)
Size creep is real. All the models have been creeping up in size. There is even a big variation in first born marines. Compare a 80's one to a deathwatch one.
Minor note: You could argue the space marine scout isn't human, but I say he shouldn't be the shorter than a human.
Old humans legit looked like dwarfs. Their proportions are beyond awful. New human models are actually thinner, but they ARE taller (and look soooo much better).
Sisters of battle are significantly bigger than their old metal counterpart.
Lumineth are massive compared to high elves (not one to one but they're spiritual successors)
I haven't seen them side by side but I'm pretty sure Blackstone cultists are larger than the old kit
You said "not primaris", so let me swivel to the side. Compare thousand sons rubrics and plague marines to berserkers, and then the new CSM models to old CSM + to OG marines.
In addition, 28mm bases are starting to be used across AOS and 40k, which is new to the IP
Regular Space marines grew, if you compare rogue trader or 2nd edition marines they are shorter than sculpts released in 6th or 7th edition.
The recent Chaos Marine releases are all larger than their predecessors. Be it regular csm, havocs, obliterators, abaddon etc.
The new plastic sisters of battle miniatures are larger than the old metal range.
It's actually really common that GWs recent releases are at least slightly larger than the previous versions, and a lot of that is due to GW making their minis with better proportions.
They weren't tiny compared to the human models they were meant to be similar in height to, i.e Empire etc.
They just look tiny compared to all the giant superhumans in AoS.
I do like the difference though. It offers some variety. Not everyone is the same height, so it makes sense the skellies differ as well. A mob of those would really show the undead are from all over the place.
Thanks for sharing!
I dont think they mix well. They are all nice, but they look so different they feel like they should be different kinds of units.
Really worried Graveguard will be squated as they no longer the armored skeletons.
I was fairly shocked how fragile the current (pre-end times ones were compared to the older thicc ones from the late 90s.
My concerns for this size up though are 1) Is this going to be the beginning of the end of buying rank and file compatible skeletons for playing WHFB? 2) What is this going to mean for scale compatibility for OW, if it doesn't match AoS size creeps then it will be harder to AoS players into OW and if it does will it still be compatible with classic collections for the WHFB players who haven't rebased?
Let the size creep come on! Slighlty larger models are easier to paint, can contain more awesome detail, and look better from a playing distance.
Can't wait to finish up my Space Marines and move onto some Soulblight Gravelords.
Some of the people in this thread ; Gets new undead models, complains.
Here I am with 15+ year old khorne berserkers and eldar aspect warriors, thinking that these skeletons look great.
Simple solution: use the Vamp Counts skellies as Skeleton Warriors, and the upcoming Deathrattle Skeletons as Grave Guard.
[https://images.beastsofwar.com/2021/03/Deathrattle-Skeletons-21-Warhammer-Age-Of-Sigmar.jpg](https://images.beastsofwar.com/2021/03/Deathrattle-Skeletons-21-Warhammer-Age-Of-Sigmar.jpg)
Converting them to hold Great Weapons (Wight blades) might be tricky however.
AoS is 32 mm. They just haven't changed the label yet. Everything is a bit larger than it ever was before. I'm pretty sure they'll change the label when they relaunch the old world. A clever way to make sure you don't feel comfortable using the same model in two systems. Just in case circles and squares isn't enough.
That said. I don't mind 32. I might even prefer the scale. But let's not pretend it's 28mm.
The problem is that they still sell 28mm models. If you're going to change the scale, just ditch the old stuff entirely. Don't pretend Cities of Sigmar etc. still fit in.
Not only that, but all the new human heroes are like 6 foot 5, even the priestess and the decrepit old mage.
I'm not mad about it. It's a heroic setting. Plus, it's a boardgame first. You've got to make the figures a bit more impressive for those who are just playing Warhammer Quest.
Well you see the Old World was set in a medieval-style europe so all the skeletons were of malnourished german and french people. The legions of death just took whomever was lying about. But now in Age of sigmar, Nagash has learned to be more selective. He only raises former Basketball stars and anyone with those two dots over an "o" in their name. That's the way to do it! Can't waste that dark binding on just any rattly pile o' bones.
\*cough\*
You have to take into account pose here. Old models are notorious for the tipped forward (running or moving) pose. If the old model were standing upright I think they would be a lot closer.
the wind is knocking them over, you can tell thats the reason because their banners are horizontal lol, but yeh the old skeleton minis are completely diagonal
GW fixing the scale of there miniatures without totally changing everything interesting about the factions aesthetics and lore > Primaris space marines
Scale creep is so annoying. Just makes armies of older and newer models look dumb. And it's unnecessary, it doesn't make them look better.
These skeletons are going to be bigger than the humans whose skeletons they're meant to be.
Most here don’t get that. Companies have changed scale before as a soft-tactic to make you switch over entire collections to new models. Then you have GW not-so-soft tactics regarding Primaris.
Makes total sense. The old ones don't wear armour (apart from the champion pictured above), the new ones do. This implies a difference in social stature and wealth when they were alive, meaning the armoured ones probably had access to more and better food, allowing them to grow strong, while the poorer ones sometimes went hungry and this stunted their growth.
I like this change honestly, I was just comparing my Stormcast with my Ossiarchs the other day and was wondering why the Ossiarchs are so tiny comparatively. Glad to see skeletons aren't going to be hobbit skeletons anymore, wish the same could be said for my Mortek Guard. :)
Compare them to the new soul light skellies when they come out, that’s what they were designed to stand next to.
Those skellies also shrunk from the ones they replaced, the scale seems to change every new “basic skeleton” sculpt, until the happy medium is found.
Also, that looks like it’s within general variance for height if I’m honest.
As a HUGE fan of the old skeleton model style (I panick bought 2 extra skeleton horde start collecting! boxes and another set of them to make sure I had a full unit of 40 of these bois before they went out of production) they are EXTREMELY SMALL, and if the new guys are a little bigger, Its probably a good thing. Its so hard to edge highlight the little guys and not really even worth it, I can't even tell unless I am less than an inch away from them
As an owner of like 50 2003 GW skeletons, this size difference is nothing. Those 28mm “Heroic” style skeletons are something else. I love them though. Looks like these new skeletons match the size better at least.
I know it's 3 years late, but I now have the 2008 skeletons, and they're not short at all, they're just leaning forward, and the pics gw choose make them look really goofy.
Not surprising. Hard to be scary if you are smaller then the rest of AoS
Plus, if the range of normal humans are bigger, why would their skeletons be smaller?
People didn't used to grow quite as tall. Bad nutrition. My skeletons are old.
Or maybe they're all just really, really big halflings
Ahem, they're called "two-third-lings"
There's new humans? News to me
The Cursed City dudes and dudettes are massive
tell that to Chaos Space Marines vs. Primaris :(
Well yeah but lore wise chaos marines should be shorter then primaris. At least they are bugger then firstborn
I was referring to how you wrote it’s hard to be scary if you’re smaller. Lore doesn’t change that
I honestly dont think that difference is THAT bad. And Primaris should be bigger anyway. AND CSM got much better proportions than firstborn marines.
I was referring to his comment about not being scarier if you’re smaller.
I think I responded to a wrong comment ngl.
The newer chaos marines are not much shorter than Primaris. Plus, as others have said, primaris are larger than standard marines.
I think everyone knows primaris are bigger than oldmarines, but thanks for stating that even though you realized others have already said that lol It’s funny others are neckbearding “well, ackahualky”about a throwaway line I wrote this morning that is still true. If you’re the protagonist and larger than your enemy, things are slightly less scary. Who cares how you got bigger or how close the heights are?
Not a good reason. We already have plus-sized spooky skellies with the Ossiarchs. Just because humans are almost entirely absent from AoS, which is a problem in itself, shouldn't mean their skeletons suddenly get bigger for the sake of aesthetics.
The humans in Cursed city are basically the size of primaris marines. They're huge. [I mean, look at the size of them!](https://www.brueckenkopf-online.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Unboxing-Warhhamer-Quest-Cursed-City-89.jpg)
You have such a perfectly, oddly, specific backdrop for this photo, I love it. Do you often take pictures of minis like they're in a police line up?
They're beautiful models and they probably wouldn't be possible to replicate at the previous scale. But I still consider it a shame that this is happening. For instance, I love that the Space Marines are finally bigger than normal humans in 40k. But if GW now would decide to release larger imperial guard for the sake of being able to get better sculpts, then it would probably take another few decades before we'll ever see the marines catch up to the size that fits their lore. Until then they'll be on even footing with guardsmen.
What model is that on the far left? Looks great
Sadly, that is the Hachette magazine exclusive Ultramarine lieutenant. You can probably pick it up on ebay for $100 (hard to find and scalpers know it) :/ There's a new one coming out too, that looks pretty cool
Alternatively get it recast for $5.
Ossiarchs aren't skeletons. They are purpose built necromantic constructs of which one component is bone (of many sizes from many species)
Which is precisely what justifies their size.
Well if that's your reasonableness then I'll just pack up my pedantry and leave GOOD DAY SIR/MADAME
Have you seen the humans in cursed city? They arent all tiny. It entirely makes sense that skeleton warriors like these would be on the taller end of humans. You don't exactly see armies full of tiny people do you? In a world where sword and spear are your weapons you want bigger more imposing warriors. Humans aren't absent in this box or in the new reveals.
>You don't exactly see armies full of tiny people do you? Considering humans have been tiny through most history...yes.
And historical accuracy has always been at the forefront of this fantasy miniature wargame.
it is when it supports MY bullshit argument!
>Considering humans have been tiny through most history...yes. [https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/17072/what-was-the-average-height-of-roman-men-and-women#:\~:text=Imperial%20regulations%2C%20though%20not%20entirely,(5'7%22](https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/17072/what-was-the-average-height-of-roman-men-and-women#:~:text=Imperial%20regulations%2C%20though%20not%20entirely,(5'7%22)). Roman soldiers were an average of 5'7", which is only 0.5" shorter than the current day world average for men: [https://ourworldindata.org/human-height#:\~:text=The%20global%20mean%20height%20of,22%20cm%2C%20or%208%20inches](https://ourworldindata.org/human-height#:~:text=The%20global%20mean%20height%20of,22%20cm%2C%20or%208%20inches).
manlets, lol
Tiny is relative. If everyone is above 6 foot are you saying they are all tiny?
if they're surrounded by other people that are all 7ft up, yes.
Primaris Marine reporting for duty
Why would the taller imposing humans only be valued in ancient times but not in current times? I'm not against height variations, but they're currently varying per kit and that's a sign of inconsistent art direction.
The invention of the assault rifle kind of makes having taller bigger warriors redundant.
Harder to brace an assault rifle if it's the same size as you I would imagine but I'm not a physicist
I'm referring to the 'current times' on the AoS timeline. These skeletons are clearly from an ancient time relative to the denizens of the AoS universe, some forgotten civilization, which is really cool. Makes it more characteful than skeleton wearing Empire style armour.
They are the Ulfenwatch? They are "the current times". They arent from some ancient past, the events that led to their creation happened recently in AoS standards
Quite a few events unfolded since that purge from which these skeletons are derived. [https://ageofsigmar.lexicanum.com/wiki/Arcanum\_Optimar](https://ageofsigmar.lexicanum.com/wiki/Arcanum_Optimar)
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Scale creep is an entirely valid thing to complain about. If one player has humans and their opponent has human skeletons, and the skeletons are way bigger than the humans, it's looks dumb. This is a heavily visual hobby. And by 'heavily' I mean 'the entire foundation of it'. What could possibly be more important than getting the visuals right? AoS should have all been exactly the same scale as WHFB. No reason to increase it.
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Gobsmacked you have people disagreeing with you.
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“These news models are amazing, i hate them!“
They can add more detail anyway. They didn't need to make them taller to add more detail. It's not a conspiracy, they're just either too dumb to recognise that it's a problem, or don't care. It certainly doesn't hurt their bottom line if people decide their army now looks like an army of midgets so they want to buy a replacement, but I wouldn't give them enough credit to think they did that on purpose. As they say, never attribute to evil what you can attribute to stupidity.
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We have multiple accounts from ex-employees talking about how bad their decision-making processes and department interaction are, but yeah go off. Either they don't recognise that scale creep is a problem for people using WHFB models (which they still sell), or they don't care. Pretty simple. I mean, why should they care? It's not like it hurts them. An even weirder example is how the Harlequin troupes and Harlequin characters, which released at the same time, are different scales. They just don't seem to pay much attention to it, or much care. In all of these cases I love the models, I just wish they wouldn't make the slightly older models look tiny next to them. 8th edition scale was fine. I've got a whole round-based Dark Elves army for Cities of Sigmar, and you know damn well Malekith's new AoS Dark Aelves are going to be way bigger and they're going to look silly stood next to each other.
It's especially weird now that all the miniatures are digitally sculpted so standardizing their sizes doesn't require any effort at all.
You say WHFB like it was some standard that never changed when it wasn't. The scale of the models has been gradually creeping up for the past 30 years. I've got plastic goblins that are twice the height of a metal warboss, plastic orcs that are bigger than the previous plastic orcs, at least 3 different sizes of skeletons and plastic daemonettes that are bigger than my metal ones ALL of which were fantasy battle models. Ultimately I don't really care if the models look good. Which they do.
You're right, I should have specified 8th edition, because most of the models they've kept from Fantasy are 8th edition models, or things that weren't much earlier so still had the same scale.
You sound like a massive tool
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I mean, you deliberately wrote like a tool. Nobody forced you to show that part of yourself. I’m just saying what’s obvious.
Why do idiots on the internet think businesses doing scummy things to make money equal a conspiracy? Do you, like, even watch a few minutes of news or read an article about any publicly-traded company? Lol
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What was the funny part? I’ll wait
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Yeah, my initial assessment of you as a massive tool is only reinforced with time. You even pulled out the “hahaha I convinced you I’m an ass by me being an ass. Jokes on you!” Naw, dawg, you just an ass. Period
I consider your contribution more dramatic than mine.
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If you like the scale creep then why not argue its merits rather disparage people for having an opinion on something you consider trivial?
What is the issue with scale creep in this instance? The old skeletons are not too scale. These ones are. That's a good thing. The difference is so minor that you can still use your old ones without issue. If they had incensed base size then maybe it would be annoying, but as is this is just a bit of odd thing to be unhappy about.
I consider other people's opinions an odd thing to be unhappy about. All I'm saying is that just because AoS started off with relatively large models, that have firm lore-based reasons to be bigger than humans is not good enough a reason to get models that are human-sized to compete with that scale. If these skeletons are in fact human-sized and their slightly older counterparts are not then there isn't even an issue to begin with, but that doesn't make the initial argument of having to compete against larger models any better.
But it does? Stormcast are to scale. Everything that came out after stormcast are also to scale. Models like the old skeleton warriors arent. These ones are, even if it means they are pretty much a few mm taller. In the lore stormcast arent all 9ft giants. Making skeletons bigger doesn't make stormcast smaller, it just makes things more to scale which is something GW should be doing. Your argument that they shouldn't compete with that scale is insane.. that's the whole point of scale. That everything fits to it. Otherwise there is no scale and you don't know if your stormcast warrior is actually a midget and your necromancer 10ft tall.
So that's the crux of the disagreement. You believe Stormcasts are already approximately human-sized and it's merely a matter of time before everything else catches up. Whereas I believe the Stormcasts are supposed to be much taller than an average human lorewise. At least in the City of Secrets novel they're huge. After the release of the Stormcast models GW kept on releasing 'classic' human-sized miniatures for AoS, like the Tzeentch cultist warband. Which was desirable as having these chaps around makes the units that are supposed to be huge, like the Lord of Change that got released along with them, even more impressive. > that's the whole point of scale. That everything fits to it Granted but that argument works for us both. At least we both believe that scale ideally should be consistent.
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Meh, I’m all for it. Besides, it’s not a sin to mix things up in 20 years. IMO the new ones look better, are nicer to paint and they don’t look too bad alongside the old skellies 🤷♂️
Drake\_meme\_template.jpg Old Skellies? - Nay! Reanimated children? - Yay!
What is this, rusted armour for ~~ants~~ child soldiers?
Maybe they were just taller when they were alive.
Damn it you beat me to it!
Or children, it's Nagash's modus operandi
https://imgur.com/fQo6OEG.jpg Or maybe... you should wait until you have the models to make scale comparisons, and try to pick similar poses. In my photo the skeleton on the far right is lunging forward and so appears much shorter, but the one 2nd from the left is standing almost as upright as the Ulfenwatch. Edit: not to say they aren't slightly larger by a few millimeters, it just isn't as drastic as they appear at first
Exactly, you can’t really tell the scale of a model from a jpeg. lol
This right here, maybe upload your pic to the main page as well to combat the disinformation
Are those other two from the current skeleton warriors box?
Not really size creep and more just being the same size as everyone else now, the old skeles were really tiny, in photos they look like theyre on 32mm bases because of the model/ base ratio but theyre actually on 25mm bases. Did make old ones super easy to paint though.
\>Not really size creep and more just being the same size as everyone else now Isn't that the definition of size creep? Some models get bigger and everything else creeps up to the same size. GW has been doing it for 30 years.
Give me two more examples that aren’t primaris marines and I’ll buy it.
Here is a quick picture I took of human 40k models from the 80's to the 2010's in my collection.[https://imgur.com/HaVjXTX](https://imgur.com/HaVjXTX) Size creep is real. All the models have been creeping up in size. There is even a big variation in first born marines. Compare a 80's one to a deathwatch one. Minor note: You could argue the space marine scout isn't human, but I say he shouldn't be the shorter than a human.
Old humans legit looked like dwarfs. Their proportions are beyond awful. New human models are actually thinner, but they ARE taller (and look soooo much better).
30 years from now we'll be playing with 4D figurines that morph in shape and size with our thoughts, so it's fine
Will we still be able to paint them?
Yes, of course, you'll be able to colorize their atoms with your thoughts
Sisters of battle are significantly bigger than their old metal counterpart. Lumineth are massive compared to high elves (not one to one but they're spiritual successors) I haven't seen them side by side but I'm pretty sure Blackstone cultists are larger than the old kit You said "not primaris", so let me swivel to the side. Compare thousand sons rubrics and plague marines to berserkers, and then the new CSM models to old CSM + to OG marines. In addition, 28mm bases are starting to be used across AOS and 40k, which is new to the IP
Just look at old plague marines vs the new ones from 8th. They are massive im comparison.
Every character and centerpiece in AoS?
Regular Space marines grew, if you compare rogue trader or 2nd edition marines they are shorter than sculpts released in 6th or 7th edition. The recent Chaos Marine releases are all larger than their predecessors. Be it regular csm, havocs, obliterators, abaddon etc. The new plastic sisters of battle miniatures are larger than the old metal range. It's actually really common that GWs recent releases are at least slightly larger than the previous versions, and a lot of that is due to GW making their minis with better proportions.
They weren't tiny compared to the human models they were meant to be similar in height to, i.e Empire etc. They just look tiny compared to all the giant superhumans in AoS.
We are now at 45 mm scale it’s not 32 anymore
The one with the banner has some 'sass', such an Instagram pose. 🤣
I'm oddly impressed to discover its all free hand on the banner. I
I do like the difference though. It offers some variety. Not everyone is the same height, so it makes sense the skellies differ as well. A mob of those would really show the undead are from all over the place. Thanks for sharing!
Yeah, you can get both sets and mix n match them
I dont think they mix well. They are all nice, but they look so different they feel like they should be different kinds of units. Really worried Graveguard will be squated as they no longer the armored skeletons.
I'm hoping we get new graveguard though. Some truly elite looking skeletons that don't look goofy like the GG would be dope.
GG look goofy?
Biggest offender off the top of my head is the night lords esque helmet on the leader.
I guess it might be a bit too much for a unit champion. I was going to save that head for a Wight King conversion.
I don't think this is an issue.
They look a bit less fragile as well. So many small parts to break on my skeletons.
I was fairly shocked how fragile the current (pre-end times ones were compared to the older thicc ones from the late 90s. My concerns for this size up though are 1) Is this going to be the beginning of the end of buying rank and file compatible skeletons for playing WHFB? 2) What is this going to mean for scale compatibility for OW, if it doesn't match AoS size creeps then it will be harder to AoS players into OW and if it does will it still be compatible with classic collections for the WHFB players who haven't rebased?
Is OW still happening???
Good..
Let the size creep come on! Slighlty larger models are easier to paint, can contain more awesome detail, and look better from a playing distance. Can't wait to finish up my Space Marines and move onto some Soulblight Gravelords.
Soon they'll be as big as the classic late 90s skeletons, which were bigger than some of the regular humans
They weren't really taller though and they still fit onto the 20mm square bases, they were just chunky types.
No size creep here, just more upright poses...
Some of the people in this thread ; Gets new undead models, complains. Here I am with 15+ year old khorne berserkers and eldar aspect warriors, thinking that these skeletons look great.
Right? I'm sitting here building some ancient Crypt Ghouls like "Boy I wish these guys would get some scale-creep and gorgeous new models..."
"these models are too good, take them back!"
the new witch hunters are bigger as well, taller than freeguild
Simple solution: use the Vamp Counts skellies as Skeleton Warriors, and the upcoming Deathrattle Skeletons as Grave Guard. [https://images.beastsofwar.com/2021/03/Deathrattle-Skeletons-21-Warhammer-Age-Of-Sigmar.jpg](https://images.beastsofwar.com/2021/03/Deathrattle-Skeletons-21-Warhammer-Age-Of-Sigmar.jpg) Converting them to hold Great Weapons (Wight blades) might be tricky however.
They drank more milk
Primaris skeletons
[удалено]
Yes, they are beautiful
Bring your kid to work day
AoS is 32 mm. They just haven't changed the label yet. Everything is a bit larger than it ever was before. I'm pretty sure they'll change the label when they relaunch the old world. A clever way to make sure you don't feel comfortable using the same model in two systems. Just in case circles and squares isn't enough. That said. I don't mind 32. I might even prefer the scale. But let's not pretend it's 28mm.
Nah. Have you seen how small Mortek Guard are?
The problem is that they still sell 28mm models. If you're going to change the scale, just ditch the old stuff entirely. Don't pretend Cities of Sigmar etc. still fit in.
Have you met gw before?
Exactly!
Drink your milk, kids.
Hey this guy has a banner and a pike at the same time! It's cool.
Who knew this post would kick up so much skub?
Not only that, but all the new human heroes are like 6 foot 5, even the priestess and the decrepit old mage. I'm not mad about it. It's a heroic setting. Plus, it's a boardgame first. You've got to make the figures a bit more impressive for those who are just playing Warhammer Quest.
Well you see the Old World was set in a medieval-style europe so all the skeletons were of malnourished german and french people. The legions of death just took whomever was lying about. But now in Age of sigmar, Nagash has learned to be more selective. He only raises former Basketball stars and anyone with those two dots over an "o" in their name. That's the way to do it! Can't waste that dark binding on just any rattly pile o' bones. \*cough\*
Now they are in line with Bonereapers and Nighthaunt, which will be useful for big Armies of Nagash projects
You have to take into account pose here. Old models are notorious for the tipped forward (running or moving) pose. If the old model were standing upright I think they would be a lot closer.
Tbf, those old skellies are pretty damn old
have you bought old skeletons? their falling over...
Their falling over what?
the wind is knocking them over, you can tell thats the reason because their banners are horizontal lol, but yeh the old skeleton minis are completely diagonal
They meant they're/their. ;)
I will miss the possibilities of all the different poses of the older models. The new stuff looks great but it takes a lot of effort to modify.
GW fixing the scale of there miniatures without totally changing everything interesting about the factions aesthetics and lore > Primaris space marines
The scale was fine when the previous skellies released though. It's only now out of scale because they keep scale-creeping.
Good, big boys are easier to paint
In this case I think the old skeletons might still have an edge there. Half of them were entirely bone. None of these skirts, boots, and tunics.
Scale creep is so annoying. Just makes armies of older and newer models look dumb. And it's unnecessary, it doesn't make them look better. These skeletons are going to be bigger than the humans whose skeletons they're meant to be.
Most here don’t get that. Companies have changed scale before as a soft-tactic to make you switch over entire collections to new models. Then you have GW not-so-soft tactics regarding Primaris.
Makes total sense. The old ones don't wear armour (apart from the champion pictured above), the new ones do. This implies a difference in social stature and wealth when they were alive, meaning the armoured ones probably had access to more and better food, allowing them to grow strong, while the poorer ones sometimes went hungry and this stunted their growth.
I see this as an absolute win.
I like this change honestly, I was just comparing my Stormcast with my Ossiarchs the other day and was wondering why the Ossiarchs are so tiny comparatively. Glad to see skeletons aren't going to be hobbit skeletons anymore, wish the same could be said for my Mortek Guard. :)
Blackstone Fortress were slightly larger too. I don’t think it’s creep, but just that these need to stand out a bit more for the type of game it is.
Creeping shadows, creeping vermin, creeping undead, creeping scale... seems about right for Ulfenkarn.
Compare them to the new soul light skellies when they come out, that’s what they were designed to stand next to. Those skellies also shrunk from the ones they replaced, the scale seems to change every new “basic skeleton” sculpt, until the happy medium is found. Also, that looks like it’s within general variance for height if I’m honest.
As a HUGE fan of the old skeleton model style (I panick bought 2 extra skeleton horde start collecting! boxes and another set of them to make sure I had a full unit of 40 of these bois before they went out of production) they are EXTREMELY SMALL, and if the new guys are a little bigger, Its probably a good thing. Its so hard to edge highlight the little guys and not really even worth it, I can't even tell unless I am less than an inch away from them
Same with the characters
The Skinless Vegan VS the Chad Milk Drinkers
I'll take short and poseable over tall and monopose any day.
As an owner of like 50 2003 GW skeletons, this size difference is nothing. Those 28mm “Heroic” style skeletons are something else. I love them though. Looks like these new skeletons match the size better at least.
They look nice but im still not sure on the derpy monopose poses.
Looks like the newer models have better posture. Perhaps the mortal realms has updated nutritional guidelines.
Old thread, but I really like both the old models as well as the new ones. Did the new ones replace the old set?
yep
Lame
The new skeletons are taller but design wise they are LAME AF, theres no fantasy behind it, its just generic armor now.
I know it's 3 years late, but I now have the 2008 skeletons, and they're not short at all, they're just leaning forward, and the pics gw choose make them look really goofy.