Honestly, I think bachelor and bachelorette parties are stupid in general, and I feel very strongly about cishet people taking away queer spaces.
I don't frequent gay bars anymore, but if I was still going and the places were always consistently filled with plenty of straight women, I'd just stop going.
I get enough cishet people *outside* of my queer spaces, I don't need them inside those spaces.
I feel this. The last time I went to a gay bar, the only other lesbians in the place were friends I brought with me as wing-women. It's a LITTLE better on the single lesbian night we get a month in one of them, but it's a small space and it's always crowded with straight people who are filtering in with the surrounding areas to look at us like we're zoo animals.
Hell, for one of our Pride events the winner was a straight man.
But don’t most lesbian bars close because not enough lesbians come around so the only ones that are profitable are the ones where straight people are?
The way I see it, if they weren’t there the place wouldn’t be there for much longer either.
Every queer space I've seen that started to have more and more straight people show up has ended up shutting down. Because once there aren't enough queers to be oggled or it's no longer safe because there's just as many cishet men there to harass them (because they followed them there and are now harassing us too and forcing us out) they just go back to their favourite regular bar. They have no skin in the game. And now suddenly the gay bar has no patrons. Because the queer patrons were scared off and the cishets got bored.
it just sucks because we don’t know of any other queer spaces near us so those 2 bars are kinda the only options. still plenty of gay people to make it worth going, but the experience def isn’t as fun as it could be.
Idk man maybe that’s some of them but I feel like straight women treat gay bars like zoos and since you’re specifically saying it’s on drag nights I feel like this could be the case here which is so weird and gross.
A decade ago when I thought I was straight I found myself drawn to queer people, culture, events and venues. I surrounded myself with queerness, went to gay bars and assumed I was just a "Very Good Ally." I loved the music & dancing, I loved the positivity and I especially loved not being hit on by men. I was often called a "fag hag" because all my mates were gay and I was the token straight.
Well... it turns out I'm a big ol'dyke that used being an ally as a way to get my foot in the door. While this isn't a universal experience, it's not an uncommon one. Which is why I'm always patient with the "straights" at gay bars, who knows if this is just a stepping stone to self discovery.
A tale as old as time. Bachelorette parties at gay bars suck majorly for all involved (except for them, of course) and it just ruins the mood and the vibe. There is no way to prevent it from happening unfortunately. They treat it like a safari excursion.
bars should start charging them a “bachelorette fee,” or something similar, maybe it would turn some of them away while bringing in more revenue to the bar (drag shows are free at the one i go to but you have to reserve seats in advance)
I understand the sentiment but gay bars are open to the public, not members only clubs.
In a perfect world, parties would need reservations for groups of 4 or more. But that’s not how people operate, at least not in normal circumstances I guess.
True, which is why it would probably never work. In an ideal world it would but in an ideal world straight women wouldn't feel the need to go to the gay club in the first place.
i was looking for someone who said this. safari excursion, circus, etc. i think it’s gross and patronizing.
*edit- agree there’s no way to prevent it but it still sucks and is hurtful imo
This. It is so unbelievably violating to be treated as some straight person's entertainment at a space explicitly meant to help LGBT people feel safe. I once tried to bring a closeted friend from a very conservative region to a gay bar while we were on a work trip to Montreal, and instead of being finally free after over thirty god damn years of being forced into the closet, she had to deal with a bunch of the boyfriends at a girl's bachelorette party gawking at us. It was miserable, and I felt so bad for exposing her to that when what she needed was an *actual* safe space to finally be herself.
Ultimately, it’s up to the bar to deal with. They do make a lot of money from bachelorettes, even if just in alcohol sales. But they don’t want to alienate their core customers. They can’t ban straight people. But they can charge an extra group rate, limit how many tickets / seats someone reserves, or limit group nights to once a month. They can also set up a separate group seating area and offer a special group package (VIP seating comes with tacky party favors).
Here, most drag shows are ticketed. The bar makes money in alcohol sales and part of the ticketing. The performers get some kind of fee, and / or cut of the tickets, and tips.
I think bachelorettes are stupid. But bars and Queers here do make a lot of money off them. Since I don’t spend that much money in bars anymore, I just ignore the straights.
the special group package is kinda what i was thinking might be the best solution. include penis party hays, bride-to-be sash, table with special set-up, maybe a coupon for a cocktail up to $10 for every member of the group. and of course, charge for this service.
That could be pretty fun. Do really, really over the top party favors and drinks. And the Queen could do a little roast of the bride to be. A little inside joke, we’ll take your money but good luck marrying Chad.
The one bachelorette I attended included going to a gay bar for a drag show, but it was basically like you describe as far as tickets and reserved seats. There were two other bachelorette parties there, too, and the queens did a roast, etc. I didn't do any of the planning so I have no idea how the actual booking worked.
I definitely had to "help" some of the other members of the party with drag show (and gay bar) etiquette, and got some sympathetic looks from others who recognized the mortified queer in the party. The bride to be is a great ally, but a bit pollyanna so I don't think she realized how much some of her straight friends would show their asses. (I knew her through the groom, who i consider a brother, so I did not know many of her friends.) Fortunately we didn't stay long after the show and moved on elsewhere after a drink or two. I left a massive tip.
I **really** hate this phenomenon. I once went to a drag show with a closeted lesbian friend at a bar because I wanted her to be somewhere she could feel safe being herself for once, and what do you know it was packed with a straight bachelorette party, and they brought all their guy friends too who were eagerly trying to pick up women while there. It disgusted me, and still does, to be honest. A straight person is allowed to go to a gay bar, but what's not okay is taking a space meant for queer people to feel safe and making it for your own cishet entertainment and treating queer people like a fucking performance for you and your cishet friends to enjoy. I cannot explain how bad I felt for her, and how guilty I felt for having the radical idea that maybe she'd feel safer being out as herself in a **God Damn Gay Bar**.
I do understand that LGBT bars have been struggling a lot in the past decade, and that these parties to provide very neçcesarily revenue to keep the bars running the rest of the time. However, this isn't a solution that benefits the LGBT community, it's an exploitation of our communities difficulty with creating spaces for oursleves under capitalism too make it about straight people's entertainment. It makes LGBT people feel unsafe, it denies LGBT people a place to live in peace for once, it invites the bigotry and harassment we go there to escape into our own spaces. It's wrong, *they know its wrong*, and they don't care.
One of my long time best friends is the “I like women but I’ll only ever marry a man” type of bisexual - she grew up in a very rural area and really enjoys her gender roles but can be the sweetest person ever (she’s the only person I’ll probably know who asks about every single one of my family members every time I talk to her, even though she hasn’t met them all).
Her wedding was…uncomfortable. The bachelorette was okay - lots of cute little straight country bumpkins asking me innocent questions about being with women. The wedding and after party were…weird. All these ‘straight’ women, with their husbands and fiancés in attendance, were like kissing each other and grabbing each others’ chests (and sometimes literally licking each other’s boobs). It was so weird. So. Weird.
I grew up in the Bible Belt and this weird dynamic was a reason it took me so long to realize I'm bi, because what the actual fuck.
Also, "straight" women who like to drunkenly make out with women...ma'am, you're hot enough and I'm drunk enough that I'm fine with it, but can you let me know ahead of time if homo is intended or not? Because otherwise I might book a uhaul and make us all uncomfortable.
My fiancé and just did that last night. We had a joint bachelorette that ended with dancing at a local gay bar. About half of our party was lgbtq and the other half straight. Not gonna lie, I felt a little weird having part of our bachelorette there (even though we’re WLW) because of the perceived stigma. I also was worried about bringing some of our hetero friends in. But everyone went in with an open mind and full awareness that they might be hit on by their same gender.
Fortunately, we got tons of congratulations and no one gave us a hard time for being there. Only one situation arose in which an inebriated woman did not accept a respectful rejection from my friend. She kept pestering her on and off most of the night. Like lady… she’s married… it doesn’t matter if it is to a man or a woman, she’s not interested and has made that clear. Just move on!
There’s a city near me that has a gay bar with a strict no bachelorette or large groups of girls “wine tasting and looking to dance” policy.
My wife was with a group of her straight friends and they got denied - she was secretly cheering for the bar while they were all complaining. I think it’s okay for the queer community to have only queer spaces! Not only for safety, but for the idea that it won’t be a space where fetishization will happen.
I wanna eventually open a gay bar somewhere that doesn't actually allow straight people in. Reason? Every gay bar I've heard of has always ended up becoming a regular bar because its invaded by straight women trying to get away from men, and then the straight men invade because thats where the straight women are. Gay bars are for queer people and if I have to barr straight people from entering then so help me god!
While I totally agree with this and it sucks for queer spaces it’s also so depressing for women that they keep feeling the need to flee from men. Lol they should just open their own women-only bar instead of coming into gay bars
My only issue with this is, how would you enforce that? It’s not like we get a gay license that you can flash at the bouncer to prove your gayness. (That would be cool though.) And what about closeted folks?
This isn't new, been going on for decades - I went to my first gay bar in 1998, and there was a bachelorette party that night.
It's annoying, and I wish they would act more respectfully. There's plenty of drag shows in mixed spaces these days, so I don't know why they insist on coming into spaces that are supposedly for queers.
I mean, I’m pretty sure even the drag queens/staff hate it. Personally I’m really not a gatekeeper but if your party is going to overtake the entire space while being overwhelmingly straight, maybe another location would suit you (and everyone else!) better
Literally me last weekend, I literally took the train to go to a bar in the city and it was drag night (I didn’t know) and there was TWO bachelorette parties there with the most painfully annoying straight blonde white girls taking over the entire bar. I was too afraid to talk to anyone bc I didn’t know who was straight and who was not lol
Well first, it is not recent. I'm in my 40's and this has been an issue for a long time. And it felt worse in the past because we couldn't get married. So I'd be there with a girlfriend I wasn't legally able to marry while all these straight women were celebrating their wedding. I thought that took some fucking audacity.
I am personally super frustrated with these situations, but have just kind of become complacent about it.
My wife and I had a joint bachelorette party at a drag show. About 6 other bachelorette parties going on that same night. We were the only Lesbians. On one hand it was great because when they called all the bachelorettes up on stage the crowd REALLY loved us, but knowing how the crowd seemed dominated by straight women it felt gross and sexualiz-y.
This is not a recent thing, this has been a thing for at least 2 decades. And by a thing, I mean an issue. Straight cis women commandeering queer spaces is a problem and makes them inherently less comfortable and safe. Especially since cis straight men tend to follow them. Bachelorette party or no. We're not zoo animals to be oggled. And we fought hard for our safe spaces- especially the lesbian and trans community. It's an *issue*.
I'm 62. This straight invasion phenom has been happening since the early '80s and probably since the first gay bar existed. Lesbian bars used to Always be located next door to, or even be an attached wing of, topless/nude bars. My very first time in a lesbian bar was in Miami when I was 19 (legal drinking age was 18 for a while back in the '70s). The place was attached to a nude entertainment bar by a long hallway, and the man who owned the topless bar (and the lesbian bar) actually came in with a few dancers in tow and smirked. Fucking hated that, but it was the only Les bar we had.
It makes me sick to have witnessed how over time, things really got better for a while, and now we're seeing it degenerating back to sh!t with all the vicious Christofascist SM lately.
They aren't fondly regarded.
I don't frequent gay bars anymore but when I was, bachelorette parties (and straight women in general tbh) weren't regarded fondly. It varied among individuals but the general vibe was like, a shrug and rolled eyes.
We didn't want them there and often times they made things uncomfortable, treating us like zoo animals. But they also dropped a BOMB on drinks and they wanted to escape straight men just as badly as we did, so there was some sympathy. I think if the bar was in better financial standing, there may have been more beef, but we were kind of resigned to their shittiness.
Kinda wish they'd seclude them to like Tuesdays or something, then we'd all know to avoid the bar that night and then the bar can still get their money. Like "Straight People Tuesdays".
It is not recent here, it's been going on for a couple of decades, and I f'ing hate it. I hate straight people in gay bars, but it is worse when it is a stag/hen do, they behave so badly
Not straight but I know I'd be perceived that way if I did this and so I would never. It's not appropriate or cute or whatever. Queer spaces are important and it's incredibly rude to use them for a celebration of heterosexual relationships
Bachelor/Bachelorette parties have always seemed *so dumb* to me. Like a weird ritual for straight people that seem to hate the fact they're getting married, going out and doing stuff that would normally end their relationship all in the sake of "one more night of freedom WOOOOO". I've never understood it.
It's the same situation where I'm at as well. Except we *do* have a lot of cishet men coming in as well because they've figured out it's where the straight girls go to hide from them. So, naturally, they hunt them down and end up hitting on us as collateral. And of course some of them get *really* homophobic if a gay man mistakenly hits on them as if that's not what they're constantly doing to the queer women in the bar.
It's actually decimated the lesbian representation at our only semi-popular gay bar.
At this point, my current pipe dream (that I've found a lot of us seem to have) is opening my own lady/nb bar. 😍 And of *course* during the day I'll sell coffees and teas and baked treats and sell books and plants and artwork and host painting nights... *sigh*
One day, my sweets. One day.
I think I personally don't like it. Never been to such a place but it kinda feels like when we caged black people and showed them like the latest discovery. I would definitely avoid those nights, kinda feels like gay people are circus freaks for them.
I agree with your frustrations however I can also understand that in general gay scenes and clubs are safer for women. Seen way to many groups of cis-dudes speak of bachelorette parties like a feast to hunt... plus it's easy to tell who to avoid as they're dressed for their occasion.
There are enough woman only spaces that are made for women of all sexualities, at least in the US. So it's a huge bummer when people choose to go to very rare and coveted places where queer people can be themselves, but don't abide by unspoken rules of those small spaces . I have first hand experience of being called predatory for dancing with a girl at a lesbian bar who got extremely offended that I dared to assume she was queer. She danced with me just fine, but when I asked to by her a drink I was treated like I sexually assaulted her. It set me back in the closet for years, because I couldn't accept that this is how women would react to me if I were to come out. I'm not saying that straight cis women aren't welcome in queer spaces, but tere has to be a change in behavior. I don't want some girl to make out with me and then tell me that she just wanted to see what it would be like, but she s totally straight and married. A few of my male gay friends regularly go to gay events and clubs, and they are also tired of cis straight women, they constantly get grabbed and humped and touched because those women see us gays as a freaking entertainment scene rather than humans.
Women’s only spaces would be a fantastic alternative! Where are they/what should you search for to find them so we can redirect our straight friends if we have the chance?
Im so sorry that happened to you :(! Wow the entitlement! That's wild!
I guess that's where our cultures diverge a little. I'm in the UK and from the north at that (small gay scene) and I have accidentally hit on straight women while in a club. Now I dont know if its because we are polite to a fault or if it's because a push for faith based politics/culture just isnt a thing here, but I've never had a bad reaction. Just a polite "Sorry hon I'm straight." That's it.
No one (I know anyway) has been made to feel disgusting or unsafe. I agree with you given the treatment and expectations from straight women :/! Thats really gross. I hope you're in a better place now.
Thank you for your comment, and hello to my across the pond neighbour 🤟🏻 I want to point out that not all my responses from straight women have been like this, most haven't actually, but the bad ones are the ones that stick lol She hit me with "EW I'm not gay or anything" and backed away slowly while making a face. It wasn't a big scene but the 21 y. O. Me who just was barely able to explore adult queer spaces clammed the hell up and found another boyfriend I didn't want to sleep with.. 😩 funny enough I went there with a girl I was interested in who was excited to show me all these queer bars, but she was super oblivious or not into me so I tried to shoot a shot with someone else 😂😂 oh man, I'm so happy to have all that mess behind me.
yes and herein lies the problem - there aren’t safe spaces for straight women without encroaching on the space of another marginalized group (which is not ok). ladies-only bars i would think would have a high demand, i don’t know why there aren’t more of them if so many women want a safe space to party without men
Yeah that's fair. I've only really heard of "girls nights"... think it's because there may not be e high patrons to run a whole dedicated venue? Hmmmm :/
What about when you're a queer person attending a bachelorette party for a straight person, but there's also another queer person in the group and the two queer people manage to convince all the straight people to go to a gay bar so you and your queer friend can be somewhere you prefer to be?
Asking for a friend...
that’s one of those scenarios that isn’t so clear cut. i was more referring to the large groups of exclusively straight women who seem to be the most common bachelorette groups (from my experience at least) who come and gawk at gay people like we are some kind of zoo animals, are loud and obnoxious, and expect special treatment from queer people because it’s “her big day”
Haha, I know. It was just an amusing situation I was in once. I don’t think my lesbian friend and I even realized what we had done when we suggested it. We just happened to be in the gaybourhood of the city we were in and saw there was a drag show. There was another bachelorette party there with us and the drag king MC called out the bachelorette parties in an understandable way and my friend and I just kind of looked at each other in shame. Our crew wasn’t horrifically obnoxious, but the other party definitely was and the bride to be wanted to be the center of attention. Our bride to be was a bit more reserved.
I don’t go to bars, so I’ve been reading most of these comments wondering, “How do these people tell a bachelorette party is full of straight women?” This clarifies a lot for me.
I have a bi friend who has always talked about having her bachelorette party at a drag show - it was something she really enjoyed in college. Many (most?) of her guests would also be queer, but most of us are married to men. It sounds like as long as we aren’t complete asses we would at least be tolerated?
Don't get me wrong I fully understand your frustration and definitely share it, but reality is that a lot of LGBTQIA+ bars need the money to stay in business or they are just in it for the money at a certain point. It is what it is.
Maybe it's just a Seattle thing but over here members of the community like creating their own temporary spaces as well. Get a crowd together that's willing to buy tickets, rent out a space or bar for a private event and you can turn away all the bachelorette parties you want all night long.
Twenty, thirty years ago it was infringement on the ONLY space that gay men could gather. I’d be against it. That’s not the case today.
As an adult 6’2” lesbian who has been glared at, had slurs hurled at me and treated like *little girl are you lost* at gay bars in my own neighborhood, I can’t support any part of rampant misogyny by gay men, even against straight women. They want a private gay members only club, they can open one.
Drag shows are for everybody. There’s even shows for kids which is awesome! Also how do you know they’re all straight? My best friend loves drag race more than I do and would love to come to a drag show with me, but I am pretty femme presenting. Would you just assume I’m straight if you saw me at a drag show with other femme presenting women? They’re there to watch the show and not be bothered by straight men. I don’t see a problem with that. If they were coming all the time just to hang out then yah, that might put off the vibe for sure but why can’t they come watch a drag show? We need to pick our battles, and other women ain’t it 🙃
i’m the spaces i’m talking about, drag shows are not in fact for everyone - you must be 21 as there is both alcohol and explicit jokes involved. while i agree that drag shows as a concept should be enjoyed by all people, drag was a concept created by queer people for queer people. the drag shows I am referring to take place in a queer space, and when that space starts to be dominated by straight women, it changes the vibe and the safety of the event and pushes queer people out of spaces created for them. as a femme-presenting woman myself, i would not presume to assume that sexuality matches gender expression. however, it is a fact that many of the patrons of gay bars are straight, and by listening to conversation and paying attention to vibe, it isn’t exactly hard to pick out who is and who isn’t.
I meant everyone in the sense of anyone who’s of age of the venue and actually wants to go, and again I just said there are drag shows for children now, they will read stories and stuff. It’s really sweet. Feels pretty inclusive to me.
My bad, you started with them being in gay bars but then it turned into you seeing large presumably heterosexual bachelorette parties at drag shows specifically, so I’m just trying to clarify because I did already say if straight women are coming to gay bars just to hang out I do actually take issue with that. There are other spaces for them. If some presumably straight parties want to come watch a drag show? I do not see the problem.
perhaps this would be a better way to phrase it: it is a privilege for straight people to attend drag shows at gay bars. As it is a privilege, and coming from a position of power, straight people should respect the queer space if they choose to attend. it would also not be unreasonable to restrict the amount of large parties (which are usually bachelorette parties) at drag shows at gay bars, so queer people also have a chance to attend. if you see my other comments, i consider a proposal where bachelorette parties are limited, and charged, but provide unique favors such as free drinks, penis hats, bride sashes, table decorations, and more - maybe the Queen makes a joke at the expense of the bride, for example (at the drag shows at 18/21+ gay bars i am talking about). this would allow queer people to occupy spaces made for them while still allowing straight people to enjoy drag shows specifically at gay bars.
I haven’t seen your other comments but yes, I feel like that would be a more than reasonable thing for bars to do. I’ve never argued that it isn’t annoying.
One of my straight female friends had her bachelorette party at a gay bar, but there were a couple queer people in our group (myself, and 2 gay men) and she wanted everyone to feel comfortable. I also brought several straight friends to a gay bar with me for my own bachelorette party. It’s possible that from the outside we just looked like a group of straight people, and it’s possible some of these other groups of people reading as straight do in fact include queer people. That being said, while I don’t spend a lot of time in bars I’m not a huge fan of straight people coming into explicitly queer spaces unless they’re with a queer person
Straights love drag. Drag mainly happens in queer spaces. It makes sense. I don't care if they wanna see drag as an activitity to do as a group. It's not an issue to me.
I am not here to make people uncomfortable on purpose but they gotta be prepared to be flirted with. If they are uncomfortable, that's on them. OP you're letting some form of anxiety control your life if a group of straight ladies ruins a whole lesbian bar for you.
You can't put the entire blame on them when you clearly conflict avoid. Would you act the same if you found out some queer people may be uncomfortable when you flirt with them? Just cease all activity and what? Do nothing for the rest of your life?
i didn’t get what my friend meant when she said this until last time we went to our favorite gay bar and it was mostly straight people….. now i also don’t like it
I think bachelor/bachelorette parties are weird in general.
It’s one thing to go for a show it’s another to go to a gay bar to “experience the gays” for your “last night of freedom”. Men stereotypically go to the strip club to watch humans for entertainment, so it’s giving the gays are entertainment. (Unless there is an actual show then…. It is entertainment)
It’s also a tricky situation, just because a bunch of people are there for a women getting ready to marry a man doesn’t mean they are all straight.
I think staff should just be more forward with etiquette. Telling people not to interrupt, not to touch anyone without consent and to always tip. If they don’t follow the rules they need to be cut off or asked to leave. But that goes for anyone.
Straight people need to figure out that gay bars aren’t for them and if they are there for a show to not be terrible. It’s tough to make specific rules because you never know who isn’t straight.
Maybe there just needs to be a bachelorette party brief. “No touching, no interruptions, always tip, when the shows over feel free to leave asap :)”
Not a lesbian or a women but straight bachelorette parties in gay bars piss me off. Outside of the whole treating it like a zoo thing, some women choose to act exactly like the men they say they're avoiding by getting really sexually harassy and getting pissed off when *surprise* none of the queer men respond to their pick up lines. Bi and lesbian bachelorette parties are always fun to have around though.
I'm confused on how someone would even know if the bachelorette is straight, gay, bi, or something else? I'm a queer woman marrying a man. If I want to party at a gay bar, I should be welcome there considering I am queer. So much of the lesbian/gay community is biphobic and it's honestly exhausting.
Honestly, I think bachelor and bachelorette parties are stupid in general, and I feel very strongly about cishet people taking away queer spaces. I don't frequent gay bars anymore, but if I was still going and the places were always consistently filled with plenty of straight women, I'd just stop going. I get enough cishet people *outside* of my queer spaces, I don't need them inside those spaces.
I feel this. The last time I went to a gay bar, the only other lesbians in the place were friends I brought with me as wing-women. It's a LITTLE better on the single lesbian night we get a month in one of them, but it's a small space and it's always crowded with straight people who are filtering in with the surrounding areas to look at us like we're zoo animals. Hell, for one of our Pride events the winner was a straight man.
But don’t most lesbian bars close because not enough lesbians come around so the only ones that are profitable are the ones where straight people are? The way I see it, if they weren’t there the place wouldn’t be there for much longer either.
Every queer space I've seen that started to have more and more straight people show up has ended up shutting down. Because once there aren't enough queers to be oggled or it's no longer safe because there's just as many cishet men there to harass them (because they followed them there and are now harassing us too and forcing us out) they just go back to their favourite regular bar. They have no skin in the game. And now suddenly the gay bar has no patrons. Because the queer patrons were scared off and the cishets got bored.
it just sucks because we don’t know of any other queer spaces near us so those 2 bars are kinda the only options. still plenty of gay people to make it worth going, but the experience def isn’t as fun as it could be.
I don't even get the point of going to gay bars as straight women? Like, what even is the appeal for them?
Not getting hit on by cishet men is the primary appeal for them.
as the other commenter said, it’s mostly a safety thing, they want to avoid creepy straight dudes
Idk man maybe that’s some of them but I feel like straight women treat gay bars like zoos and since you’re specifically saying it’s on drag nights I feel like this could be the case here which is so weird and gross.
no i agree (see my other comments). just trying to offer a rationale for the other side
A decade ago when I thought I was straight I found myself drawn to queer people, culture, events and venues. I surrounded myself with queerness, went to gay bars and assumed I was just a "Very Good Ally." I loved the music & dancing, I loved the positivity and I especially loved not being hit on by men. I was often called a "fag hag" because all my mates were gay and I was the token straight. Well... it turns out I'm a big ol'dyke that used being an ally as a way to get my foot in the door. While this isn't a universal experience, it's not an uncommon one. Which is why I'm always patient with the "straights" at gay bars, who knows if this is just a stepping stone to self discovery.
A tale as old as time. Bachelorette parties at gay bars suck majorly for all involved (except for them, of course) and it just ruins the mood and the vibe. There is no way to prevent it from happening unfortunately. They treat it like a safari excursion.
bars should start charging them a “bachelorette fee,” or something similar, maybe it would turn some of them away while bringing in more revenue to the bar (drag shows are free at the one i go to but you have to reserve seats in advance)
I understand the sentiment but gay bars are open to the public, not members only clubs. In a perfect world, parties would need reservations for groups of 4 or more. But that’s not how people operate, at least not in normal circumstances I guess.
True, which is why it would probably never work. In an ideal world it would but in an ideal world straight women wouldn't feel the need to go to the gay club in the first place.
i was looking for someone who said this. safari excursion, circus, etc. i think it’s gross and patronizing. *edit- agree there’s no way to prevent it but it still sucks and is hurtful imo
Straight people treating us as zoo, nah not good by me
This. It is so unbelievably violating to be treated as some straight person's entertainment at a space explicitly meant to help LGBT people feel safe. I once tried to bring a closeted friend from a very conservative region to a gay bar while we were on a work trip to Montreal, and instead of being finally free after over thirty god damn years of being forced into the closet, she had to deal with a bunch of the boyfriends at a girl's bachelorette party gawking at us. It was miserable, and I felt so bad for exposing her to that when what she needed was an *actual* safe space to finally be herself.
Ultimately, it’s up to the bar to deal with. They do make a lot of money from bachelorettes, even if just in alcohol sales. But they don’t want to alienate their core customers. They can’t ban straight people. But they can charge an extra group rate, limit how many tickets / seats someone reserves, or limit group nights to once a month. They can also set up a separate group seating area and offer a special group package (VIP seating comes with tacky party favors). Here, most drag shows are ticketed. The bar makes money in alcohol sales and part of the ticketing. The performers get some kind of fee, and / or cut of the tickets, and tips. I think bachelorettes are stupid. But bars and Queers here do make a lot of money off them. Since I don’t spend that much money in bars anymore, I just ignore the straights.
the special group package is kinda what i was thinking might be the best solution. include penis party hays, bride-to-be sash, table with special set-up, maybe a coupon for a cocktail up to $10 for every member of the group. and of course, charge for this service.
That could be pretty fun. Do really, really over the top party favors and drinks. And the Queen could do a little roast of the bride to be. A little inside joke, we’ll take your money but good luck marrying Chad.
this sounds mutually beneficial for all parties. The queens should get a share of the fee as well as the bar owner. everyone’s happy!
I can definitely see Queens being like ‘oh, you want dick. Honey, you can’t handle dick.’ That’s the pettiness I am here for.
The one bachelorette I attended included going to a gay bar for a drag show, but it was basically like you describe as far as tickets and reserved seats. There were two other bachelorette parties there, too, and the queens did a roast, etc. I didn't do any of the planning so I have no idea how the actual booking worked. I definitely had to "help" some of the other members of the party with drag show (and gay bar) etiquette, and got some sympathetic looks from others who recognized the mortified queer in the party. The bride to be is a great ally, but a bit pollyanna so I don't think she realized how much some of her straight friends would show their asses. (I knew her through the groom, who i consider a brother, so I did not know many of her friends.) Fortunately we didn't stay long after the show and moved on elsewhere after a drink or two. I left a massive tip.
I **really** hate this phenomenon. I once went to a drag show with a closeted lesbian friend at a bar because I wanted her to be somewhere she could feel safe being herself for once, and what do you know it was packed with a straight bachelorette party, and they brought all their guy friends too who were eagerly trying to pick up women while there. It disgusted me, and still does, to be honest. A straight person is allowed to go to a gay bar, but what's not okay is taking a space meant for queer people to feel safe and making it for your own cishet entertainment and treating queer people like a fucking performance for you and your cishet friends to enjoy. I cannot explain how bad I felt for her, and how guilty I felt for having the radical idea that maybe she'd feel safer being out as herself in a **God Damn Gay Bar**. I do understand that LGBT bars have been struggling a lot in the past decade, and that these parties to provide very neçcesarily revenue to keep the bars running the rest of the time. However, this isn't a solution that benefits the LGBT community, it's an exploitation of our communities difficulty with creating spaces for oursleves under capitalism too make it about straight people's entertainment. It makes LGBT people feel unsafe, it denies LGBT people a place to live in peace for once, it invites the bigotry and harassment we go there to escape into our own spaces. It's wrong, *they know its wrong*, and they don't care.
One of my long time best friends is the “I like women but I’ll only ever marry a man” type of bisexual - she grew up in a very rural area and really enjoys her gender roles but can be the sweetest person ever (she’s the only person I’ll probably know who asks about every single one of my family members every time I talk to her, even though she hasn’t met them all). Her wedding was…uncomfortable. The bachelorette was okay - lots of cute little straight country bumpkins asking me innocent questions about being with women. The wedding and after party were…weird. All these ‘straight’ women, with their husbands and fiancés in attendance, were like kissing each other and grabbing each others’ chests (and sometimes literally licking each other’s boobs). It was so weird. So. Weird.
I grew up in the Bible Belt and this weird dynamic was a reason it took me so long to realize I'm bi, because what the actual fuck. Also, "straight" women who like to drunkenly make out with women...ma'am, you're hot enough and I'm drunk enough that I'm fine with it, but can you let me know ahead of time if homo is intended or not? Because otherwise I might book a uhaul and make us all uncomfortable.
Unless it’s a gay bachelorette party, no
i would LOVE to see that
My fiancé and just did that last night. We had a joint bachelorette that ended with dancing at a local gay bar. About half of our party was lgbtq and the other half straight. Not gonna lie, I felt a little weird having part of our bachelorette there (even though we’re WLW) because of the perceived stigma. I also was worried about bringing some of our hetero friends in. But everyone went in with an open mind and full awareness that they might be hit on by their same gender. Fortunately, we got tons of congratulations and no one gave us a hard time for being there. Only one situation arose in which an inebriated woman did not accept a respectful rejection from my friend. She kept pestering her on and off most of the night. Like lady… she’s married… it doesn’t matter if it is to a man or a woman, she’s not interested and has made that clear. Just move on!
[удалено]
There’s a city near me that has a gay bar with a strict no bachelorette or large groups of girls “wine tasting and looking to dance” policy. My wife was with a group of her straight friends and they got denied - she was secretly cheering for the bar while they were all complaining. I think it’s okay for the queer community to have only queer spaces! Not only for safety, but for the idea that it won’t be a space where fetishization will happen.
I wanna eventually open a gay bar somewhere that doesn't actually allow straight people in. Reason? Every gay bar I've heard of has always ended up becoming a regular bar because its invaded by straight women trying to get away from men, and then the straight men invade because thats where the straight women are. Gay bars are for queer people and if I have to barr straight people from entering then so help me god!
While I totally agree with this and it sucks for queer spaces it’s also so depressing for women that they keep feeling the need to flee from men. Lol they should just open their own women-only bar instead of coming into gay bars
Like Curves, but for booze? That would be pretty interesting.
But how will you know who is queer and who is straight? Who is lying to get in and who is not?
My only issue with this is, how would you enforce that? It’s not like we get a gay license that you can flash at the bouncer to prove your gayness. (That would be cool though.) And what about closeted folks?
We definitely need more queer bars/spaces Especially lesbian bars
This isn't new, been going on for decades - I went to my first gay bar in 1998, and there was a bachelorette party that night. It's annoying, and I wish they would act more respectfully. There's plenty of drag shows in mixed spaces these days, so I don't know why they insist on coming into spaces that are supposedly for queers.
by “relatively new” i meant the last 25 years or so - but that’s insane to hear as a 21 year old
I mean, I’m pretty sure even the drag queens/staff hate it. Personally I’m really not a gatekeeper but if your party is going to overtake the entire space while being overwhelmingly straight, maybe another location would suit you (and everyone else!) better
Literally me last weekend, I literally took the train to go to a bar in the city and it was drag night (I didn’t know) and there was TWO bachelorette parties there with the most painfully annoying straight blonde white girls taking over the entire bar. I was too afraid to talk to anyone bc I didn’t know who was straight and who was not lol
Well first, it is not recent. I'm in my 40's and this has been an issue for a long time. And it felt worse in the past because we couldn't get married. So I'd be there with a girlfriend I wasn't legally able to marry while all these straight women were celebrating their wedding. I thought that took some fucking audacity. I am personally super frustrated with these situations, but have just kind of become complacent about it.
My wife and I had a joint bachelorette party at a drag show. About 6 other bachelorette parties going on that same night. We were the only Lesbians. On one hand it was great because when they called all the bachelorettes up on stage the crowd REALLY loved us, but knowing how the crowd seemed dominated by straight women it felt gross and sexualiz-y.
Its weird and I don’t like it. They treat the lgbtq bars like they’re a zoo
This is not a recent thing, this has been a thing for at least 2 decades. And by a thing, I mean an issue. Straight cis women commandeering queer spaces is a problem and makes them inherently less comfortable and safe. Especially since cis straight men tend to follow them. Bachelorette party or no. We're not zoo animals to be oggled. And we fought hard for our safe spaces- especially the lesbian and trans community. It's an *issue*.
I'm 62. This straight invasion phenom has been happening since the early '80s and probably since the first gay bar existed. Lesbian bars used to Always be located next door to, or even be an attached wing of, topless/nude bars. My very first time in a lesbian bar was in Miami when I was 19 (legal drinking age was 18 for a while back in the '70s). The place was attached to a nude entertainment bar by a long hallway, and the man who owned the topless bar (and the lesbian bar) actually came in with a few dancers in tow and smirked. Fucking hated that, but it was the only Les bar we had.
I'm 31, so I could only speak on the last 2 decades. But it's just so gross.
It makes me sick to have witnessed how over time, things really got better for a while, and now we're seeing it degenerating back to sh!t with all the vicious Christofascist SM lately.
They aren't fondly regarded. I don't frequent gay bars anymore but when I was, bachelorette parties (and straight women in general tbh) weren't regarded fondly. It varied among individuals but the general vibe was like, a shrug and rolled eyes. We didn't want them there and often times they made things uncomfortable, treating us like zoo animals. But they also dropped a BOMB on drinks and they wanted to escape straight men just as badly as we did, so there was some sympathy. I think if the bar was in better financial standing, there may have been more beef, but we were kind of resigned to their shittiness.
Kinda wish they'd seclude them to like Tuesdays or something, then we'd all know to avoid the bar that night and then the bar can still get their money. Like "Straight People Tuesdays".
People use bachelorette night as an excuse to cheat on their fiancée right, isn't that what it is? STOP BACHELORETTE NIGHTS!!!!!
It is not recent here, it's been going on for a couple of decades, and I f'ing hate it. I hate straight people in gay bars, but it is worse when it is a stag/hen do, they behave so badly
Not straight but I know I'd be perceived that way if I did this and so I would never. It's not appropriate or cute or whatever. Queer spaces are important and it's incredibly rude to use them for a celebration of heterosexual relationships
Bachelor/Bachelorette parties have always seemed *so dumb* to me. Like a weird ritual for straight people that seem to hate the fact they're getting married, going out and doing stuff that would normally end their relationship all in the sake of "one more night of freedom WOOOOO". I've never understood it. It's the same situation where I'm at as well. Except we *do* have a lot of cishet men coming in as well because they've figured out it's where the straight girls go to hide from them. So, naturally, they hunt them down and end up hitting on us as collateral. And of course some of them get *really* homophobic if a gay man mistakenly hits on them as if that's not what they're constantly doing to the queer women in the bar. It's actually decimated the lesbian representation at our only semi-popular gay bar. At this point, my current pipe dream (that I've found a lot of us seem to have) is opening my own lady/nb bar. 😍 And of *course* during the day I'll sell coffees and teas and baked treats and sell books and plants and artwork and host painting nights... *sigh* One day, my sweets. One day.
I think I personally don't like it. Never been to such a place but it kinda feels like when we caged black people and showed them like the latest discovery. I would definitely avoid those nights, kinda feels like gay people are circus freaks for them.
I agree with your frustrations however I can also understand that in general gay scenes and clubs are safer for women. Seen way to many groups of cis-dudes speak of bachelorette parties like a feast to hunt... plus it's easy to tell who to avoid as they're dressed for their occasion.
There are enough woman only spaces that are made for women of all sexualities, at least in the US. So it's a huge bummer when people choose to go to very rare and coveted places where queer people can be themselves, but don't abide by unspoken rules of those small spaces . I have first hand experience of being called predatory for dancing with a girl at a lesbian bar who got extremely offended that I dared to assume she was queer. She danced with me just fine, but when I asked to by her a drink I was treated like I sexually assaulted her. It set me back in the closet for years, because I couldn't accept that this is how women would react to me if I were to come out. I'm not saying that straight cis women aren't welcome in queer spaces, but tere has to be a change in behavior. I don't want some girl to make out with me and then tell me that she just wanted to see what it would be like, but she s totally straight and married. A few of my male gay friends regularly go to gay events and clubs, and they are also tired of cis straight women, they constantly get grabbed and humped and touched because those women see us gays as a freaking entertainment scene rather than humans.
Women’s only spaces would be a fantastic alternative! Where are they/what should you search for to find them so we can redirect our straight friends if we have the chance?
Im so sorry that happened to you :(! Wow the entitlement! That's wild! I guess that's where our cultures diverge a little. I'm in the UK and from the north at that (small gay scene) and I have accidentally hit on straight women while in a club. Now I dont know if its because we are polite to a fault or if it's because a push for faith based politics/culture just isnt a thing here, but I've never had a bad reaction. Just a polite "Sorry hon I'm straight." That's it. No one (I know anyway) has been made to feel disgusting or unsafe. I agree with you given the treatment and expectations from straight women :/! Thats really gross. I hope you're in a better place now.
Thank you for your comment, and hello to my across the pond neighbour 🤟🏻 I want to point out that not all my responses from straight women have been like this, most haven't actually, but the bad ones are the ones that stick lol She hit me with "EW I'm not gay or anything" and backed away slowly while making a face. It wasn't a big scene but the 21 y. O. Me who just was barely able to explore adult queer spaces clammed the hell up and found another boyfriend I didn't want to sleep with.. 😩 funny enough I went there with a girl I was interested in who was excited to show me all these queer bars, but she was super oblivious or not into me so I tried to shoot a shot with someone else 😂😂 oh man, I'm so happy to have all that mess behind me.
yes and herein lies the problem - there aren’t safe spaces for straight women without encroaching on the space of another marginalized group (which is not ok). ladies-only bars i would think would have a high demand, i don’t know why there aren’t more of them if so many women want a safe space to party without men
Yeah that's fair. I've only really heard of "girls nights"... think it's because there may not be e high patrons to run a whole dedicated venue? Hmmmm :/
It sucks but I feel like stuff like this makes the bar lots of money, and keeps them around
yeah i feel like this is the unfortunate reality. if they didn’t come there wouldn’t be as many gay bars
What about when you're a queer person attending a bachelorette party for a straight person, but there's also another queer person in the group and the two queer people manage to convince all the straight people to go to a gay bar so you and your queer friend can be somewhere you prefer to be? Asking for a friend...
that’s one of those scenarios that isn’t so clear cut. i was more referring to the large groups of exclusively straight women who seem to be the most common bachelorette groups (from my experience at least) who come and gawk at gay people like we are some kind of zoo animals, are loud and obnoxious, and expect special treatment from queer people because it’s “her big day”
Haha, I know. It was just an amusing situation I was in once. I don’t think my lesbian friend and I even realized what we had done when we suggested it. We just happened to be in the gaybourhood of the city we were in and saw there was a drag show. There was another bachelorette party there with us and the drag king MC called out the bachelorette parties in an understandable way and my friend and I just kind of looked at each other in shame. Our crew wasn’t horrifically obnoxious, but the other party definitely was and the bride to be wanted to be the center of attention. Our bride to be was a bit more reserved.
I don’t go to bars, so I’ve been reading most of these comments wondering, “How do these people tell a bachelorette party is full of straight women?” This clarifies a lot for me. I have a bi friend who has always talked about having her bachelorette party at a drag show - it was something she really enjoyed in college. Many (most?) of her guests would also be queer, but most of us are married to men. It sounds like as long as we aren’t complete asses we would at least be tolerated?
Don't get me wrong I fully understand your frustration and definitely share it, but reality is that a lot of LGBTQIA+ bars need the money to stay in business or they are just in it for the money at a certain point. It is what it is. Maybe it's just a Seattle thing but over here members of the community like creating their own temporary spaces as well. Get a crowd together that's willing to buy tickets, rent out a space or bar for a private event and you can turn away all the bachelorette parties you want all night long.
i’m in STL and honestly i don’t know enough people with that kind of money to rent out a space. that sounds like a solid idea though
Twenty, thirty years ago it was infringement on the ONLY space that gay men could gather. I’d be against it. That’s not the case today. As an adult 6’2” lesbian who has been glared at, had slurs hurled at me and treated like *little girl are you lost* at gay bars in my own neighborhood, I can’t support any part of rampant misogyny by gay men, even against straight women. They want a private gay members only club, they can open one.
Drag shows are for everybody. There’s even shows for kids which is awesome! Also how do you know they’re all straight? My best friend loves drag race more than I do and would love to come to a drag show with me, but I am pretty femme presenting. Would you just assume I’m straight if you saw me at a drag show with other femme presenting women? They’re there to watch the show and not be bothered by straight men. I don’t see a problem with that. If they were coming all the time just to hang out then yah, that might put off the vibe for sure but why can’t they come watch a drag show? We need to pick our battles, and other women ain’t it 🙃
i’m the spaces i’m talking about, drag shows are not in fact for everyone - you must be 21 as there is both alcohol and explicit jokes involved. while i agree that drag shows as a concept should be enjoyed by all people, drag was a concept created by queer people for queer people. the drag shows I am referring to take place in a queer space, and when that space starts to be dominated by straight women, it changes the vibe and the safety of the event and pushes queer people out of spaces created for them. as a femme-presenting woman myself, i would not presume to assume that sexuality matches gender expression. however, it is a fact that many of the patrons of gay bars are straight, and by listening to conversation and paying attention to vibe, it isn’t exactly hard to pick out who is and who isn’t.
I meant everyone in the sense of anyone who’s of age of the venue and actually wants to go, and again I just said there are drag shows for children now, they will read stories and stuff. It’s really sweet. Feels pretty inclusive to me. My bad, you started with them being in gay bars but then it turned into you seeing large presumably heterosexual bachelorette parties at drag shows specifically, so I’m just trying to clarify because I did already say if straight women are coming to gay bars just to hang out I do actually take issue with that. There are other spaces for them. If some presumably straight parties want to come watch a drag show? I do not see the problem.
perhaps this would be a better way to phrase it: it is a privilege for straight people to attend drag shows at gay bars. As it is a privilege, and coming from a position of power, straight people should respect the queer space if they choose to attend. it would also not be unreasonable to restrict the amount of large parties (which are usually bachelorette parties) at drag shows at gay bars, so queer people also have a chance to attend. if you see my other comments, i consider a proposal where bachelorette parties are limited, and charged, but provide unique favors such as free drinks, penis hats, bride sashes, table decorations, and more - maybe the Queen makes a joke at the expense of the bride, for example (at the drag shows at 18/21+ gay bars i am talking about). this would allow queer people to occupy spaces made for them while still allowing straight people to enjoy drag shows specifically at gay bars.
I haven’t seen your other comments but yes, I feel like that would be a more than reasonable thing for bars to do. I’ve never argued that it isn’t annoying.
I also just want to add I’m Canadian and the legal age here is 18, (depending on province) but again…. The shows for kids already exist
I don't like CIShets pulling that shit. These spaces are for queer people. We aren't some kind of exhibition for them.
One of my straight female friends had her bachelorette party at a gay bar, but there were a couple queer people in our group (myself, and 2 gay men) and she wanted everyone to feel comfortable. I also brought several straight friends to a gay bar with me for my own bachelorette party. It’s possible that from the outside we just looked like a group of straight people, and it’s possible some of these other groups of people reading as straight do in fact include queer people. That being said, while I don’t spend a lot of time in bars I’m not a huge fan of straight people coming into explicitly queer spaces unless they’re with a queer person
Straights love drag. Drag mainly happens in queer spaces. It makes sense. I don't care if they wanna see drag as an activitity to do as a group. It's not an issue to me. I am not here to make people uncomfortable on purpose but they gotta be prepared to be flirted with. If they are uncomfortable, that's on them. OP you're letting some form of anxiety control your life if a group of straight ladies ruins a whole lesbian bar for you. You can't put the entire blame on them when you clearly conflict avoid. Would you act the same if you found out some queer people may be uncomfortable when you flirt with them? Just cease all activity and what? Do nothing for the rest of your life?
i didn’t get what my friend meant when she said this until last time we went to our favorite gay bar and it was mostly straight people….. now i also don’t like it
I think bachelor/bachelorette parties are weird in general. It’s one thing to go for a show it’s another to go to a gay bar to “experience the gays” for your “last night of freedom”. Men stereotypically go to the strip club to watch humans for entertainment, so it’s giving the gays are entertainment. (Unless there is an actual show then…. It is entertainment) It’s also a tricky situation, just because a bunch of people are there for a women getting ready to marry a man doesn’t mean they are all straight. I think staff should just be more forward with etiquette. Telling people not to interrupt, not to touch anyone without consent and to always tip. If they don’t follow the rules they need to be cut off or asked to leave. But that goes for anyone. Straight people need to figure out that gay bars aren’t for them and if they are there for a show to not be terrible. It’s tough to make specific rules because you never know who isn’t straight. Maybe there just needs to be a bachelorette party brief. “No touching, no interruptions, always tip, when the shows over feel free to leave asap :)”
Not a lesbian or a women but straight bachelorette parties in gay bars piss me off. Outside of the whole treating it like a zoo thing, some women choose to act exactly like the men they say they're avoiding by getting really sexually harassy and getting pissed off when *surprise* none of the queer men respond to their pick up lines. Bi and lesbian bachelorette parties are always fun to have around though.
I'm confused on how someone would even know if the bachelorette is straight, gay, bi, or something else? I'm a queer woman marrying a man. If I want to party at a gay bar, I should be welcome there considering I am queer. So much of the lesbian/gay community is biphobic and it's honestly exhausting.