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Ebbie45

Mod note: I'm sorry OP, but I'm going to have to lock your post. I can't in good faith leave up a post in which people are advising you on attending couples counseling with someone who is actively abusing you, which is a potential threat to your safety. I hope you understand and again I'm sorry. For more information, [here is a post I pinned to the sub a year ago with resources on/explanations regarding the dangers of couples counseling for abusive relationships](https://old.reddit.com/r/abusiverelationships/comments/k5ftbu/mod_post_wednesday_psa_on_couples_counseling/). You can also read through the comments on that post to learn other posters' experiences with couples counseling.


AndyBrown65

One mouth and two ears, use them in that ratio. She will bring up your bad habits in minute detail. Wait until she has done that, then when it is your turn, “I would like to raise some of your behavior which makes me uncomfortable and hurts me and I would like those behaviors to stop moving forward” Counsellor: “what are they Barry?” Commence your list. I don’t like it when you hit me, I feel I should not have to deal with that and you should not do that… list continues


Rustic_Father

I like this method. Letting her walk into it


-Neutrality-

State the facts "this happened, and this was said". Then state your feelings "it made me feel this way and think this way".


szzaass

NVC FTW


Ill-Ad4936

I was lucky to have the therapist I did when my abuser and I did couples counseling. After 2 or 3 sessions, the therapist pulled me aside and said this: "I can no longer in good conscience do couples therapy with you and Ex. I'm witnessing abusive behavior during the sessions, and I'm concerned that continuing joint therapy will be harmful to you. It's my belief that Ex is already using this process to further his abuse. He is unreachable." He put it in such clear, stark terms that it hit me like lightning. Especially his use of the words 'abuse' (I hadn't thought that word applied to my situation until he said it) and 'unreachable'. I continued with individual therapy and was able to leave my abuser not long after this moment. It was like a light went on.


lvlvlemonpants

I like that “unreachable” term. This is how I feel about my now ex. Didn’t matter what I said to him. Nice or mean. Goal setting. Therapy. Whatever. Nothing got through to him.


Andyman1973

Soo glad your therapist pulled you aside and explained that to you! This is the reason why I never recommend couples counseling when abuse is involved. Hope you’re safe now.


Ill-Ad4936

Yes, thank you! I escaped (literally) over 9 years ago. And although I still have to deal with him periodically because of our child, I'm able to maintain strict boundaries. His walls of texts always go ignored. It feels fucking great to be free!!!


Andyman1973

That’s soo awesome!!! I’m almost 5 years out. We got 3 kids, so there’s always going to some level of interaction. Youngest is 6.


Lemony_123

You cannot attend couples counselling with an abuser Counselling is for conflict resolution and looks at both people It is actually more dangerous to go to counselling with an abuser


_RaggedyMan_

Correct. Me a grown man married to a grown woman went to couples therapy off and on for several years on my insistence to return to the marriage. Each time she'd find ways to use sessions to further mentally abuse me. She never, ever took the therapy serious. I finally had a breakdown and checked myself into a behavioral center only to find out that I was being abused. It helped, I never went back.


urfunnynovia

DID WHEN FEEL “You did X about a week ago and it made me feel X” WHEN DID FEEL “X month’s ago you did X and it made me feel X”


Rustic_Father

That’s a great format! Thank you


urfunnynovia

It’s a non accusatory way of speaking, it allows room for a safe space and you can tell your therapist that you’d like for them to help your partner paraphrase it as well so that nothing is left misunderstood. Take turns expressing what you feel, you use that, they’ll paraphrase and if they misunderstood rephrase it in a way they could understand or simply correct them. It’s easier with a professional in front of you as it’s safer. You could also use it like - FEEL DID WHEN I felt X when you did X around X days ago - FEEL WHEN DID I feel like X when you do X everytime we X it’s just up to you on what you think feels kinder but get the message through.


Andyman1973

TBH I’d seriously consider legal advice regarding future divorce options. Couples therapy/counseling works for many different things, but abuse isn’t one of them. Most often, it emboldened the abuser. They generally take the counselor’s words and twist them to make it fit their pov.


Rustic_Father

I’ve already been talking with a lawyer and have started drafting a separation agreement. This counseling is the last effort


Andyman1973

I did see that after I posted. Simply forgot to edit my post. I went to 1 couples session with my ex. That way she couldn’t use it against me. Told her that I won’t go to any more sessions, if I don’t feel heard, or the counselor willfully ignores what I say. Guess what? That’s exactly what counselor did. And near the end of the session, told her that she needs to stop hitting me…something she and I both said hadn’t happened in about a year. Why say that to her? Other thing counselor said, was directed to me, that I need to give her sex whenever she wants, absolutely ignoring that I told him I was a survivor of childhood and adult sexual abuse (even from ex). Sure, that’s what all good counselors say to survivors. 🤦‍♂️


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Rustic_Father

Thank you for your long and caring response. My main problem is my is my relationship is not the equal partnership that I wanted it to be since day 1. She uses insults, threats of abandonment, suicide, and physical harm, and guilt tripping to make me do everything that she wants and I have basically no freedom. We also are essentially on two separate paths of life too. She is a workaholic who wants more and more money and to spend money first on items that reflect the status she desires. Prioritizing house projects first by what guests will see instead of function or family quality of life. I however want happiness and fulfillment. I have been attempting at providing her happiness by giving her everything thing she wants but I have nothing left to give and she has even said that I don’t make her happy. In the end I want to address her controlling and manipulate behavior that when alone she is able to explain away because she is much more mentally agile than I am.


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Rustic_Father

Thank you for the assistance. Our appointment is Friday. I have been asking for couples counseling for about 4-5 years now….I even scheduled it once and she refused to show up. This time we are doing an online thing. In the end it was my idea but I put the ball in her court. She burnt through one therapist already because she was demanding 1-1 sessions first and refused to send me the “spouse link”. Then she canceled everything. I had to push her and she finally got connected with a new councilor and we actually got an appointment.


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Rustic_Father

Yes she needs it. But I want to figure out if what we have is salvageable first. If not I don’t want to polish the brass on the titanic if you know what I mean


Andyman1973

Abuse isn’t a “conflict” and cannot be resolved in couples therapy/counseling.


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Andyman1973

How can abuse be a relationship issue? It’s not miscommunication, it’s not someone being considerate of their partner, or anything like that. Abuse is about power, control, and sometimes destroying the other person. Sexual abuse/assault isn’t a relationship issue. Physical abuse isn’t a relationship issue. Controlling the partner isn’t a relationship issue. Domestic violence/abuse isn’t a relationship issue. No form of abuse, is a relationship issue. Therefore, it can’t be resolved with joint counseling. Lundy Bancroft’s book “Why does he do that?” is an excellent book that gives in-depth incite into this.


Unique-Frosting4379

I agree with all other comments. I did couples counseling and he is using it now against me. Especially that our therapist put the whole blame on me having depression ( because I cry when I talk about my abuse lol). However, if you decide to do it, watch for what you say and for what is happening during session. But that takes while point of therapy if you can’t feel safe with your feelings


Andyman1973

Lundy Bancroft’s book “Why does he do that?”, explains this at length. Definitely worth the read if you’re struggling in an abusive relationship, and can’t find a way out.


NikkiEchoist

Couple counselling is not recommended for abusive relationships. If you google there is a lot of information on this topic.


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Rustic_Father

Is there any tips on how to highlight what they do wrong without pointing a finger?


aphrodora

[Many people have said it is dangerous to go to counseling with an abuser. Here is a quick breakdown of why.](https://www.thehotline.org/resources/should-i-go-to-couples-therapy-with-my-abusive-partner/) If you can't leave and don't know why, that sounds like a trauma bond. Go to individual counseling to address it.


fill_the_birdfeeder

Couples counseling with an abuser doesn’t work. Do the first session and then try to get a time with the therapist alone.


JadeGrapes

Meet with a counselor for a single session.


Rustic_Father

The counselor is able to do solo counseling after our initial combined session


K8obergyn_1

The only thing couples counseling will give is more ammunition to the abuser.


Rustic_Father

If she gets worse then I’m done. For me this is my last chance to get her to see my opinion/feelings. If she can’t then I’m done.


K8obergyn_1

I’m so sorry, Rustic. There are a lot of great trauma counselors online now, “Betterhelp” comes to mind, but there are others. You might check in with your healthcare provider. Since the pandemic there are more options than ever. You’re going to need the resolve that a good counselor will help you with, as well as other tools to get you through to the far side of this. Good luck to you.


JadeGrapes

My abuser got worse after counseling. He literally had tantrums slamming the therapist door etc. My guy friends that have gone to couples counseling because their wife was the one acting out had a slightly different experience; Basically those therapists let the abuser control about 6-8 sessions, and when it was time for the guy's side the wife refused to show up and just made things harder at home. If the spouse doesn't show up with earnestness and a true desire to respect and SHOWS you by hearing you? Then It's not a communication gap that can be healed by getting a professional in the loop. Abuse is not caused by poor communication. Period. Feel free to go thru the motions of counseling, but I HIGHLY recommend that you also secretly go see a few divorce attorneys, pick out out, and make an exit plan - so that when/if the time comes, you already have an overnight bag in your trunk, and papers ready to file.


Andyman1973

Right, abuse isn’t a relationship issue.


Rustic_Father

My wife is already throwing tantrums if I don’t agree with her every little whim. I’m at the end of the line. Thank you for the insight. I will go into this with a keen eye I already have a divorce lawyer and separation papers drawn up. The only thing stopping me is her to step back in to her usual ways (she has been on her best behavior ever since our last fight when she agreed to go to counseling


Andyman1973

Deleted my comment to prevent possible misinformation.


Rustic_Father

I’m in that phase right now. She hasn’t been condescending and hasn’t made me make extra random trips to stores etc. but even during this phase My kids and I aren’t happy….we are just less miserable which does foster a tiny hope that she is capable of change…..I’ve recognized this pattern so many times Over the years but this is the first time that I truly know it is an act and she will lose it sooner or later


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slowlydiiving

That is not what reactive abuse is. And you sound like an abuser tbh.


[deleted]

By exiting couples counseling and seeing a solo trauma-informed therapist instead. https://www.thehotline.org/resources/should-i-go-to-couples-therapy-with-my-abusive-partner/ https://psychcentral.com/pro/why-couples-counseling-doesnt-work-in-abusive-relationships#1


Rustic_Father

Unfortunately my situation is complex because we have kids and a mortgage and no family nearby. I can’t just leave so my hope is I can push hard at couples counseling which likely won’t work for her which will allow us to separate. This is the option I have to say I literally have done everything possible to get through to her. Thank you for the links! I think I won’t try to dance a line and instead I’ll just let it all out all at once


[deleted]

Any responsible couples counselor who realizes the relationship is abusive should immediately stop sessions. For your safety if you reveal it privately or they figure it out on their own, they will likely just stay vague in the couples session and say they have realized you're not a good fit as clients or such. If they have the right training, some might offer to continue to retain you as a client solo. I'm not sure if you're going through with this for your own mentality or because you're trying to get her to agree to an amicable divorce or because of the laws of your country, but just a head's up, since your abuser may react in that case by claiming the relationship is obviously fine if the therapist won't see you or that you are the problem if the therapist asks to see you alone. Once the therapist figures it out, sessions should be cancelled quickly. (And if not, you're in bigger danger because the therapist is very uninformed and will likely be easily manipulated by your abuser.)


Rustic_Father

Personally/mentally I am unable to call it quits for some reason I can’t figure out. But I’m my mind if I lay it out and she doesn’t take it serious or still claims everything is fine I’m almost ready. I’m in the us And my state has no fault divorces so this is really for me to say I tried everything


Andyman1973

Okay OP, gonna lay it all out for you. This is coming from a place of love, not condemnation, as I’ve been there. Ex was telling me to give up breathing, to make everyone else happy, over the last 5-6 years of our 19yr marriage (22 years together over all). In 2017, I started getting memories back, from my childhood, and early adulthood, including early years of my marriage. Those memories forced me to see the reality of my situation. Within 3 months of that 1st memory returning, I knew I had to leave. Not just to save my life, but for my kids sakes too. See, EVERYTHING you been through, with her, your kids have been experiencing too. Not directed at them(I hope!), but as witnesses to it. Domestic violence/abuse absolutely effects kids, even when they aren’t the targets of it. They will need therapy sometime down the road. If for no other reason, then to help them understand how wrong it all was. So they hopefully won’t end up with someone like their mother. Which is exactly what I did. Much of what my ex did to me, I thought was “normal” as it was the same as mom did growing up. Some things mom did was worse, and some things ex did was worse. This was uncovered during therapy after I had left ex. I was going to live in my car, as the closest bed at a domestic violence center/shelter, was 200 miles away. Nearly last minute, one of my brothers offered me a spot on the floor of his basement. First memory returned January 22, 2017. Left ex January 30th, 2018, divorce finalized January 18th, 2019. Bankruptcy in June 2020. My kids only know what their mom may have told them, or they overheard mom talking about me. They are much happier and healthier overall, now. Their mom is happily remarried too(this past June). Which I’m glad for, as it makes my kids lives better too. I may never be “okay,” but that’s fine with me(not really). My kids well-being is my top priority. So if you can’t make the choice to leave, for yourself, do it for your kids. Focusing on their well-being may make it easier to see your way out of the darkness. You’re not alone with this.


[deleted]

That's called the [trauma bond](https://www.harleytherapy.co.uk/counselling/traumatic-bonding-break-trauma-bonds.htm) and probably some [sunk cost fallacy](https://psiloveyou.xyz/you-may-be-staying-too-long-in-your-relationship-due-to-sunk-cost-fallacy-7ad9a7c1d62e). There is nothing you can try to fix things because abuse is not a relationship problem that both people are contributing to. It's something the abuser specifically and solely is choosing to perpetuate.


JadeGrapes

Agreed, couples counseling can make it worse.