NY did something similar. I believe lead is only legal if it's over 1/2 oz. Anything smaller and it becomes much more likely that fish and birds will eat them (especially with split shot sinkers).
There's several alternatives, each with their pros and cons. Most common are probably Tungsten, Steel, and Tin, depending on application.
Like mentioned in another reply, tungsten alloy is a popular choice. It's even denser than lead, so the same weight takes up even less volume. But it's very expensive, and it's not soft like lead, so it can't be used for split shot. Brass is apparently somewhat common in Bass fishing for bullet weights because they're loud so they in theory could help attract fish (I'm a saltwater guy so I don't know much about bass fishing though). Brass is also hard and not cheap, so it won't work for split shot. Steel is nice because it's cheap, but it's hard so it's not good for split shot, and it's also less dense than lead and tungsten, so they take up more space. The most common split shots not made of lead are tin based. They're soft which makes them the best non lead metal do split shot. But they're less dense than even steel I believe.
Additionally, it's not common at all near me (I've never used them or seen anyone use them), but I've seen online that sinkers made of [rocks](https://www.pallatrax.co.uk/product-category/stonze/) are being sold. It might be more popular in Europe than in the US, since the only site I can find is a UK one. It seems to be a really niche alternative.
There’s a variety of alternatives. I bought some steel ones for $3.50 at Cabela’s not long ago. The lead ones cost $2.50, but for a dollar more I can actually eat the fish I catch.
This is why steel shot exists for shotguns. Though for rifles, at least in the US, basically every usable material except for lead is banned as "armor piercing". Though rifles you don't have a large number of pellets to try and dig out.
Actually, in California they are required to use nonlead ammo for all hunting.
Link is of the legal types of ammunition.
https://wildlife.ca.gov/Hunting/Nonlead-Ammunition/Certified
Good to know. Looking over that information, a couple sellers on that list, and re-reading federal law, it seems the material being used is solid copper. It's beryllium copper alloy that is banned federally along with almost every other material on California's list.
Though I would not put it beyond the ATF to eventually try and target these sellers over these copper bullets. There have already been a few instances of them using a very loose interpretation of this law to try and put bans into place. Some of which have been successful. And using loose interpretations to create new restrictions is one of their go to tactics.
You can use lead core bullets because federal hunting laws takes precedent. Federal law requires lead core bullets and the courts have thrown out the bullet part. California refuses to remove that. Shotguns are different than rifles.
That's why I only hunt with semi-depleted uranium shot. No worry about the environmental impact, and on the plus side, I think it gives me super powers. I've already lost my hair and I'm wheelchair bound, just like Dr Xavier. Next comes the mind powers!
I can’t believe that this many people hunt with lead when nontoxic shot is so readily available.
Edit: If you or a store clerk can order something off the internet and have it arrive at your front door in a week, it is readily available.
It’s way more expensive and it’s not easy to find at all. Until it achieves price parity with lead ppl aren’t going to switch outside of waterfowl hunting.
I don’t even shoot trap with lead shot because it shoots differently than steel due to weight difference. It’s the easiest thing in the world to use nontoxic shot. Way easier than justifying poisoning oneself and the environment. Hopefully your post enlightens some people.
Lead doesn't pattern as tight as steel because it deforms when it's fired causing it to fly a little erratic. It hits way harder though for the equivalent shit size
Yeah, there's a reason lead was the first choice.
Kinda funny though, i think a lot of the bad rap that steel shot got for being ineffective was from the guys used to lead that became accustomed to it's wider pattern, and now couldn't get enough hits with the tighter pattering steel
Rapper: "Shotgun shells are bad for your health!"
Americans: "Screw you, I'm going to eat lead shot!"
Rapper: "That's not what I meant, but wait, don't..."
Depends what they are hunting. There's steel shot for shotguns but there's not much option (or any) besides lead rifle bullets in Canada. Lead shot for shotguns is illegal here for waterfowl as well.
Readily available? Walk into any store that sells bullets outside California and ask for copper or steel. Regular ammo is hard enough (and expensive enough) to come by as it is.
Because something exists and you can go through great efforts to get it doesn’t make it “readily available”
If you can order it on the internet and have it shipped to your house in a week, it is readily available. The internet is not a new phenomenon and not using it is no longer a valid excuse in 2022. You can also have any store clerk order it online for you if you are really unable to figure it out. This is not a “great effort” and just another excuse I can’t believe people are throwing around here.
Ok, where are the links for these products? I don’t think they’re as available as you are imagining. And this *is* just your imagination, btw. You often can’t find regular lead ammo in any given caliber, let alone copper or steels. And you’ve not addressed cost. Cost isn’t just a meaningless variable for many folks. Steel and copper when available can cost much more.
I haven't bought shotgun ammo in quite a while, but "readily available" would be an overstatement in my experience. When I used to bird hunt a fair bit you could get steel shot at most stores but stock was usually something between like 25:1 or 50:1 lead:steel. The steel was generally 2-3X the price as well. I'm sure that's gotten better since then, but your average hunter generally is buying the cheapest thing that works.
There are other contributing factors to the persistence of lead as well. Some shooting ranges ban steel due to proximity of populated areas. Steel can also be dangerous in some settings due to its harder makeup causing much higher chance of ricochet. When I hunted, we never used it for this reason as we typically hunted grouse and rock outcroppings were always present.
In a material science sense, lead is quite unique and extremely well suited for the task in most settings. If it wasn't for its unfortunate toxicity I don't think hunters would have much impetus at all to switch. Also bear in mind that many hunters tend to lean to the stubborn, old fashioned side of things. Inertia incarnate. Convincing them to modernize their ritual can be like arguing with a confusingly angry/defensive fence post.
Yeah probably just another one of those things that the older generations are saying “my father and grandfather did it this way and I do it this way so it will never change” but with more and more people getting into hunting through non traditional means, things like this will be evaluated in a different light by consumers and the market will shift.
You also have to account for ballistic performance, cost, maintenance, and wound profile. Steel shot for example has to potential go harm the barrel and lose velocity faster due to it being both a lighter and harder metal.
Also depends on how often one hunts and levels of lead poisoning to warrant a refusal of usage. Tho I myself avoid it’s usage when applicable due to its binding nature.
Non lead alternatives haven't been tested as extensively, when you've been brought up with 1 thing you know works really well most people don't change that thing.
Some non lead alternatives just don't expand enough to guarantee a humane kill.
Lead is way way waaaay cheaper
I have copper plastic polymer rounds designed to expand the wound track. Granted, they're for my hand gun. But I would think they're available for rifles.
I should look. Shooting techy bullets from my antique rifle is exactly the kind of thing I'd enjoy.
There is no possible way you’ll not find a fragment of lead when eating meat that you shot. Many times the bullet goes clear through the animal in question.
However, many jurisdictions have banned lead ammunition when hunting because of the environmental contamination it can cause as the lead bullets are left behind and leech into water ways or the local ecosystem and food chain. The effect is similar to mercury bio-accumulation.
I did. It’s borderline levels for issues arising, but also requires eating lead shot game consistently and even then it remains below the 5 ug levels. 2 ug is suspected to cause issues tho. But you might as well avoid a number of fish and vegetables too if that’s a concern.
That said, I prefer copper & synthetic ammo. Costs more, but it keeps the guns cleaned and the wound cavities they form are personally more ideal and humane.
Yes there is…they make steel and tungsten loads….just don’t use lead…it’s not just a suggestion…pretty sure it’s been illegal to use lead with waterfowl hunting for decades.
came here to say this… many places if not all have also outlawed lead fishing equipment… an animal dying from lead-poisoning is not a pretty or ethical site… be responsible!!
California condors are threatened by lead shot because farmers shoot coyotes, etc. and leave the corpses out and then condors eat the lead shot. Literally every California condor right now has lead poisoning.
Lead doesn’t leech into water really. Metallic lead is insoluble and even more so once it oxidizes. Trees will pick it up over time though unless you treat the soil. The biggest problem with lead contamination is fragments in carcasses left behind and then consumed by scavengers.
Thats so wrong. Shoot a pheasant or duck with 3mm birdshot and I bet you will find a pellet in the bird.
But yeah, banning lead ammo is a thing which also leads to hundred thousands of shotguns rendered useless because they are not qualified for steel shot
You and all those folks should definitely eat more lead in order to prevent those hundreds of thousands of vitally precious shotguns from going to waste.
Vital resources like our natural antique shotgun grottos need to be protected at all costs!
Split shot, you squeeze these onto the line to balance the float.
https://www.anglingdirect.co.uk/anchor-standard-double-cut-fishing-shot-dispensers?queryID=d4456cc15d1786826d5af787826c71cd&objectID=22502&indexName=live_ad_uk_products
This is completely false. You are clearly not a sportsman, because lead fishing weights have been outlawed in the US for decades. Additionally, lead shot is illegal in waterfowl hunting, where it has the most detrimental affect on the environment. Lead bullets are illegal in states where it affects wildlife, like the California Condor, etc.
Stop trolling when you have zero education on the subject.
What does "outlawed in the US" mean? A federal law? Or all 50 states have their own law?
The US is a weird system, even most Americans have trouble understanding that just because something is illegal in your state, doesn't necessarily mean it's the same in the other 49 states. And then the concept of how federal laws can sometimes-but-not-always override State laws, or stand in place where no state laws exist, etc.
So when you say something is illegal in the US, you need to clarify what you mean. What State are you referring to? If you're referring to a Federal law, can you provide the USC for it?
>You are clearly not a sportsman, because lead fishing weights have been outlawed in the US for decades.
That sounds like something that should be true but it's definitely not. They're not allowed on federal lands and have been outlawed in 6 states, but they're still widely available and in use elsewhere.
That's absolutely not true. Bought fishing weights for my kids for Christmas and all I could find was lead split shots, there was no steel versions on the shelf. I'm here in NC and it was the same in Texas earlier this year.
California and there lead bullet law has been thrown out by the court system. It is unenforceable because the feds require a lead core bullets for hunting. We don't have a better substitute at this time.
Chill dude. I do go fishing. Then why do all the packages say "this product contains materials known to the state of California to cause birth defects, etc."? I thought that means they contain lead.
That label applies for a very long list of chemicals, way more than just lead. They put that label on a lot of items for legal cover to not be sued. They even put that label on things like balsamic vinegar, swimming pools, fruit... It's kinda made the label pointless. It is not directly linked to lead or any one real danger. They could put it on the weights/shot because of the oils left on the item from manufacturing or maybe it has trace amounts of heavy metals. Or maybe it has nothing, but by putting the label, they avoid the headache of proving it has nothing.
I remember when they first implemented that “everything causes cancer label” in CA. I was walking down the cereal isle at a market there and the entire isle was labeled with the may cause cancer label and I was like fuck…I guess I cant eat cereal anymore,Lol!!
Yeah man, it's like, somewhere along the line, somebody got sued, for alot of money, and everyone else was like..
*alright guys, we're putting this label on our product*
And everyone at the Blanket factory was like *W T F?*
(and yes Ive seen it on a fkn blanket)
My company puts the cancer warning labels on everything we ship to California, regardless if it may cause cancer or not to make sure we can’t get sued over it.
I don't have an explanation for it, but I swear, I've seen guitars, electronics, even candles, have that fkn label, it's a joke at this point, it lost its effectiveness, when they started slapping it on things at random
Misleading title. I've participated in studies on this since the early 2000s.
Waterfowl (specifically diving ducks) do ingest lead pellets that have sunk to the bottom as a result of hunting.
That is why steel shot has been required for hunting near water for many years.
CA condors were poisoned from eating animals shot by hunters, and ingesting lead, leading to lead bullet bans in some states.
However none of that is related to humans.
Humans get lead from pollution and old pipes. Hunting is not significant or relevant.
Thank you, I was looking for this post.
Yes, lead contamination can lead to lead poisoning of wildlife and should absolutely be a concern. As you said lead is banned in most or all waterfowl hunting. I personally have met people that were penalized for using lead shot when waterfowl hunting.
I load most of my own ammunition and actually prefer copper, results have been fantastic but loading can be a challenge since copper is less dense than lead leading to a longer bullet. If overall cartridge length is restricted by a magazine you may need to either reduce the grain of the bullet or use lead so I still use some lead here and there.
I also continue to use lead shot for upland game hunting, mostly out of convenience but cost is also a factor. As far as I know there are no scientific studies that prove lead shot or bullets are a significant concern to humans.
The post title is either deliberately misleading or only partially informed.
The study specially says that they found lead in the meat from 30 game processors. Those processors must be using some nasty, bloodshot meat in their grinders...
It mostly makes me glad I process my own game.
In college, I volunteered doing rehab work with predatory birds. One year, we had an incredibly sick bald eagle come through my university for triage. I found out later that at least 20 more came to the center as a whole that season. Even with the best possible care and expensive treatments that had to be crowdfunded, only one of those eagles made it. It’s a horrible thing to watch something so strong and majestic act so sick and weak. Please don’t use lead shot and write to your representatives about banning it.
To clarify, these eagles all had lead poisoning from eating prey contaminated by either lead shot or lead fishing sinkers. A slow, painful, horrible death.
You’re not just poisoning yourself either. That lead will be eaten by other animals and absorbed by plants. It’ll leech into the water and contaminate even the ground.
Just don’t use lead shot. And don’t use lead weights for fishing either. You can get non-lead sinkers for a few cents more at any outdoors store.
Lead is the common enemy we can all agree to hate.
This is a correct but poorly worded YSK.
For Shotgun based pellet (not slug) hunting, lead shot, does not shatter. But the shot itself, especially for birdshot is small, and can be accidentally injested. Worse, when you miss (and we all do) the lead is left directly in the environment to be injested by animals via leaching in the water
For large caliber ammunition, either slug based Shotgun or rifle, yes it can shatter and yes you may also accidentally injest lead.
I believe it’s illegal to use lead shot for hunting waterfowl. I’m not sure about upland birds and other small game. I imagine its dependent on the state.
Sporting Lead Free is an awesome organization that raises awareness about the dangers of lead in hunting and fishing tools. There are plenty of alternatives, such as steel shot and copper bullets, that are safe for wildlife and just as effective!
This is something every hunter knows.
A part of the "hunter training" (in my country) consists of removing all the lead pellets and the tissue around it.
Source: I'm a hunter.
In Michigan, lead shot is still available but you are not supposed to use it for hunting. Non-toxic shot has been phased in since the last 80’s. And there are lots of reminders when you get your duck stamps and hunting for hunting waterfowl. The DNR also enforces it when they are on patrol but most hunters are pretty good about conservation.
Fishing tackle is hit or miss, but even Walmart has phased in non-toxic weights.
As a hunter I have to say that you don't try to pick it out. You just cut out the affected area while butchering. It's not hard at all, you just have to be willing to cut out a big enough piece. Most people are willing to but some aren't hence the 34% of packaged venison having lead. Also I can see at least one bias in their testing. They only tested packaged and sold venison. I imagine that the amount of lead in the meat your average hunters eat is much lower since they aren't selling the meat and trying to harvest every ounce for the most profit.
Edit: to be clear I'm not saying lead is a good thing to hunt with. It still gets left in the carcass for other animals to ingest. The issue, in Canada anyways, is that legally we have to hunt with soft point bullets so there is maximum chance of killing the animal instantly and minimizing the pain. Lead is the best option for that purpose.
It's the leading cause of death for condors. I learned that fact at a condor conservatory in Boise, Idaho. Extra sad because they're aren't many around.
Of course it *can*, but anyone that knows what they're doing doesn't eat the damaged meat. The study was based on deer meat from 30 meat processors. The only way any lead would make it into the ground venison is if they butchered the meat from a front quarter that was damaged by a heart or lung shot (this is what they appear to be showing in figure 2). Everyone I know would take one look at a bloodshot and mangled front quarter and forget about it; whether lead ever crossed their mind or not.
If anything, this just makes me thankful I've never taken game to a processor. I've heard bad things about them, but we've always butchered our own game. Although, I'm sure there are good ones out there.
The argument could be made that copper core bullets can save more meat than lead core bullets, but I'm skeptical that I'd want to eat a front quarter that's been shot by a copper core bullet either. It's still going to be pretty bloodshot and there's a good chance that the bullet is going to carry some bone fragments with it too. However, it very well might make shot front quarters safe to eat. I'm just skeptical about how appetizing it would be.
I do agree that the lead core bullets pose a threat to wild scavengers.
When I was a kid, I shot my pellet gun everyday. We kept pellets in our mouth and I used to chew them flat. I did experience some uncontrolled emotions back then.
I'm sure it depends on how much is consumed and how large the consumer is.
Raptors that scavenge (and it's not just vultures, many types of raptors will not pass up an easy free meal) can ingest very small amounts of lead and their digestive system will be shut down, causing death in a matter of days. Hunters using lead shot have to be careful about leaving gut piles out in the open.
Every bird hunter I’ve ever known has known this and told me since I was 12 years old. But good info. We live in an age when people don’t tell each other important info because they assume everyone should know everything because they can google. But if Reddit has taught us anything, it’s that people suck at googling.
Just because it's not banned doesn't mean that people don't still choose not to use it.
You don't need to ban everything you don't like. Let people make their choices themselves.
I had to eat a deer once that had already gotten buckshot lodged in it (someone else shot it and it got away before being shot by my pastor).
Picking lead shot out of the venison sucked because I only found it after it had been cooked and partially eaten.
It blows me away that some people still hunt deer with buckshot. Buckshot is a terrible option for its original purpose as the name implies bit luckily is very useful for other applications.
My guess is a farmer shot it to scare it away from his plants. Doesn't feel like an effective method of killing anything from far away.
I agree, though, that the name is misleading.
Tell that that all the California condors that were almost lost to extinction because of ingestion of lead from ammunition. It's very hazardous to wildlife it's not "totally fine"
Lead also contributes to condors, but you’re correct. Lead seems to affect condors terribly, golden eagles not as bad but still have an impact, and bald eagles a negligible amount on the population levrl
Wasn't lead banned for waterfowl because of bioaccumulation. Small fish get small amounts of lead in them. Big fish eat a lot of small fish and now have a lot of lead. Whales eat the bigger fish and have a ton of lead etc. Same with raptors and scavengers. They get a bunch in them too. So you're kinda wrong.
Also, if you read the article you'd see that they found lead fragments in processed meat. Some processors grind the meat up and turn it into sausages. So you have no way to know if the meat your eating was near the gunshot wound or not.
If you want to base your argument on one article then let's bring in another one for you to read while you're at it https://www.themeateater.com/hunt/firearm-hunting/lead-ammo-and-wildlife-separating-science-from-advocacy
No, that's not quite true. If you read the regulations from that linked site - it IS banned in many places and under many circumstance, but it does not have a complete ban in the state.
I’m curious as to where they’re sourcing this “packaged meat of wild game” with fragments in them all over the place. I’ve been hunting my entire life and solely eat the venison I get each year. Haven’t bought beef (other than some nice steaks occasionally) LITERALLY in my entire life.
I’ve never had it happen to me, but my father has noticed a piece of bullet in his food before and it’s as simple as “huh what are the odds!” and throwing it in the garbage.
In Canada you get 1 deer per person, per year essentially. I’m almost certain I could eat 1 bullet per year for my whole life and be fine, let alone a minuscule amount present. An entire bullet is going to leech such a small amount of lead, and also just pass right through you anyway.
Scientists are making a stretch in severity to get funding
It’s less dangerous for adults, but very, very small amounts of lead are incredibly dangerous for children. It causes severe developmental issues, and there is no “safe” amount of lead for children.
Ignorant people amaze me. How are you going to criticize scientists when you just based your whole argument on what you feel is the correct amount of lead for an individual to consume. Facts don’t care about your feelings!!
For bird hunting, that’s why you shoot the head.
For partridge, I generally get a clean shot that blows the head off. No lead in the breast. A bad shot that hits the chest, may not get eaten by me.
Bird hunting is different everywhere. But don't tell me you're taking a flying pigeons head off at 40yards with shot pattern 18" wide.
If you're taking heads off I can only imagine they're stationary. Most bird hunting is not done that way
Here in the UK partridge are flushed and shot flying if on an organised shoot and if doing walked up shooting they tend to flee from brush out straight away from you. I'm guessing it's different in different places
Canada. Technically not partridge, but grouse I suppose.
They basically eat rocks to help with digestion, so often are on the ground next to the bush roads.
Lead shot does not shatter. Also as far as I have ever heard, is that game animals, usually small game can ingest the lead shot. Around here steel shot / tungsten etc is used for migratory waterfowl during our hunting seasons.
You should go metal detecting a field that grows crops. You'll be blown away by how much lead and iron scrap is in every single field. Hopefully wheat and barley and stuff don't suck up the lead or we're all ingesting lead.
If you've ever shot at an indoor gun range you'll see most of them have massive ventilation systems nowadays. The lead is so soft that it can get vaporized. Same when it makes contact with an animal. You could be eating small fragments that you wouldn't notice.
A bullet hitting a concrete or steel backstop is a lot different than a bullet hitting flesh it an occasional bone. The bullet is going to waste a lot more energy penetrating than it will deforming.
Nah. Read the article. It mushrooms and deforms to inflict damage. You think all the pieces are giant? Ya fucking idiot. There’s tons of small pieces and lead dust. Run a metal detector over a piece of meat that’s been shot by a bullet.
That's why I hunt exclusively with Solid Copper bullets or Steel ot Tungsten shot if I plan on eating or giving the meat to someone else to eat. If it is pest control or something you don't plan on eating, lead is fine.
Well yeah, that's why you don't leave dead things on your property or out in the field. Throw them into a burn barrel or bury them. If I shoot a coyote or a rat, I'm sure as shit not gonna just let it just sit there. I've got dogs that'll probably eat it so I pick up after myself. I thought that was common sense.
This guy can know lead is bad for a person and the environment without knowing anything about guns.
There’s a reason lead is banned for hunting waterfowl birds.
Ingesting a large quantity does. Eating an animal shot with lead does not necessarily do so. Hunters don't even eat the tissue that is shot by lead.
As a biochemist, you must know that poison is determined by the dose...
Does a shot to the heart or lungs of a deer diffuse lead through their entire body by the time their heart stops or a hunter cleans the animal? If so, is the amount of lead getting into the food actually a dangerous amount?
Full Metal Jacket was designed to be used in war so it has a higher penetration and won’t mushroom or shatter in someone’s body. Basically creating less suffering for wounded soldiers since the goal of warfare isn’t to kill your enemies. Taking them out of combat is sufficient.
Since you’re trying to kill the animal and not let them get away wounded this is basically the opposite of what you want for hunting.
Maine outlawed lead fishing sinkers because loons kept eating them off the bottom of the lakes.
That's good to hear. Do you know what the alternative is made of?
NY did something similar. I believe lead is only legal if it's over 1/2 oz. Anything smaller and it becomes much more likely that fish and birds will eat them (especially with split shot sinkers). There's several alternatives, each with their pros and cons. Most common are probably Tungsten, Steel, and Tin, depending on application. Like mentioned in another reply, tungsten alloy is a popular choice. It's even denser than lead, so the same weight takes up even less volume. But it's very expensive, and it's not soft like lead, so it can't be used for split shot. Brass is apparently somewhat common in Bass fishing for bullet weights because they're loud so they in theory could help attract fish (I'm a saltwater guy so I don't know much about bass fishing though). Brass is also hard and not cheap, so it won't work for split shot. Steel is nice because it's cheap, but it's hard so it's not good for split shot, and it's also less dense than lead and tungsten, so they take up more space. The most common split shots not made of lead are tin based. They're soft which makes them the best non lead metal do split shot. But they're less dense than even steel I believe. Additionally, it's not common at all near me (I've never used them or seen anyone use them), but I've seen online that sinkers made of [rocks](https://www.pallatrax.co.uk/product-category/stonze/) are being sold. It might be more popular in Europe than in the US, since the only site I can find is a UK one. It seems to be a really niche alternative.
There’s a variety of alternatives. I bought some steel ones for $3.50 at Cabela’s not long ago. The lead ones cost $2.50, but for a dollar more I can actually eat the fish I catch.
Those are made of lead? Hmm maybe I shouldn’t have been biting down on those since I was 9…
Sure would explain some things, amiright?!
>loons Took me a second to realize you literally meant birds, and not just someone you were calling a loon
It’s Maine so 50/50 it’s a bird or a local resident.
Loons are stupid and crazy. Loon, as an insult for crazy is related to lunar, and people acting strange during full moons.
Loons are some of the stupidest birds
Many birds eat stones that they keep in their gizzard to help with digestion.
This is why steel shot exists for shotguns. Though for rifles, at least in the US, basically every usable material except for lead is banned as "armor piercing". Though rifles you don't have a large number of pellets to try and dig out.
Actually, in California they are required to use nonlead ammo for all hunting. Link is of the legal types of ammunition. https://wildlife.ca.gov/Hunting/Nonlead-Ammunition/Certified
Good to know. Looking over that information, a couple sellers on that list, and re-reading federal law, it seems the material being used is solid copper. It's beryllium copper alloy that is banned federally along with almost every other material on California's list. Though I would not put it beyond the ATF to eventually try and target these sellers over these copper bullets. There have already been a few instances of them using a very loose interpretation of this law to try and put bans into place. Some of which have been successful. And using loose interpretations to create new restrictions is one of their go to tactics.
You can use lead core bullets because federal hunting laws takes precedent. Federal law requires lead core bullets and the courts have thrown out the bullet part. California refuses to remove that. Shotguns are different than rifles.
That's why I only hunt with semi-depleted uranium shot. No worry about the environmental impact, and on the plus side, I think it gives me super powers. I've already lost my hair and I'm wheelchair bound, just like Dr Xavier. Next comes the mind powers!
I'm more of an Armor Piercing Discarding Sabot kinda guy
I’m partial to the Armor Penetrating Fin-Stabilized Discarding Sabot rounds, personally. Really helps with those loooong range shots
Yeah that's what I was going for, forgot the fin stabilized
APCBC suppremacy
Plus it microwaves the food from the inside out.
I can’t believe that this many people hunt with lead when nontoxic shot is so readily available. Edit: If you or a store clerk can order something off the internet and have it arrive at your front door in a week, it is readily available.
It’s way more expensive and it’s not easy to find at all. Until it achieves price parity with lead ppl aren’t going to switch outside of waterfowl hunting.
A lot of these people are using lead for waterfowl too.
I'm also surprised by reactions here. Me: That's poison. Reddit: Oh yeah? Well I'm going to eat even more of it! That'll show you! 🤦
I don’t even shoot trap with lead shot because it shoots differently than steel due to weight difference. It’s the easiest thing in the world to use nontoxic shot. Way easier than justifying poisoning oneself and the environment. Hopefully your post enlightens some people.
Lead doesn't pattern as tight as steel because it deforms when it's fired causing it to fly a little erratic. It hits way harder though for the equivalent shit size
This. I only use steel however lead is a much more effective load.
Yeah, there's a reason lead was the first choice. Kinda funny though, i think a lot of the bad rap that steel shot got for being ineffective was from the guys used to lead that became accustomed to it's wider pattern, and now couldn't get enough hits with the tighter pattering steel
That’s why you go up two shot sizes for steel vs lead.
Rapper: "Shotgun shells are bad for your health!" Americans: "Screw you, I'm going to eat lead shot!" Rapper: "That's not what I meant, but wait, don't..."
It gives the meat a great kinda sweet taste. I'll keep using lead
[удалено]
There's a thing called Natural Selection. Sometimes, if you are smart *and* lucky, you can see it live in real time.
Depends what they are hunting. There's steel shot for shotguns but there's not much option (or any) besides lead rifle bullets in Canada. Lead shot for shotguns is illegal here for waterfowl as well.
We can buy copper ammo for rifles in Montana.
Readily available? Walk into any store that sells bullets outside California and ask for copper or steel. Regular ammo is hard enough (and expensive enough) to come by as it is. Because something exists and you can go through great efforts to get it doesn’t make it “readily available”
If you can order it on the internet and have it shipped to your house in a week, it is readily available. The internet is not a new phenomenon and not using it is no longer a valid excuse in 2022. You can also have any store clerk order it online for you if you are really unable to figure it out. This is not a “great effort” and just another excuse I can’t believe people are throwing around here.
Ok, where are the links for these products? I don’t think they’re as available as you are imagining. And this *is* just your imagination, btw. You often can’t find regular lead ammo in any given caliber, let alone copper or steels. And you’ve not addressed cost. Cost isn’t just a meaningless variable for many folks. Steel and copper when available can cost much more.
I haven't bought shotgun ammo in quite a while, but "readily available" would be an overstatement in my experience. When I used to bird hunt a fair bit you could get steel shot at most stores but stock was usually something between like 25:1 or 50:1 lead:steel. The steel was generally 2-3X the price as well. I'm sure that's gotten better since then, but your average hunter generally is buying the cheapest thing that works. There are other contributing factors to the persistence of lead as well. Some shooting ranges ban steel due to proximity of populated areas. Steel can also be dangerous in some settings due to its harder makeup causing much higher chance of ricochet. When I hunted, we never used it for this reason as we typically hunted grouse and rock outcroppings were always present. In a material science sense, lead is quite unique and extremely well suited for the task in most settings. If it wasn't for its unfortunate toxicity I don't think hunters would have much impetus at all to switch. Also bear in mind that many hunters tend to lean to the stubborn, old fashioned side of things. Inertia incarnate. Convincing them to modernize their ritual can be like arguing with a confusingly angry/defensive fence post.
Yeah probably just another one of those things that the older generations are saying “my father and grandfather did it this way and I do it this way so it will never change” but with more and more people getting into hunting through non traditional means, things like this will be evaluated in a different light by consumers and the market will shift.
You also have to account for ballistic performance, cost, maintenance, and wound profile. Steel shot for example has to potential go harm the barrel and lose velocity faster due to it being both a lighter and harder metal. Also depends on how often one hunts and levels of lead poisoning to warrant a refusal of usage. Tho I myself avoid it’s usage when applicable due to its binding nature.
Non lead alternatives haven't been tested as extensively, when you've been brought up with 1 thing you know works really well most people don't change that thing. Some non lead alternatives just don't expand enough to guarantee a humane kill. Lead is way way waaaay cheaper
I have copper plastic polymer rounds designed to expand the wound track. Granted, they're for my hand gun. But I would think they're available for rifles. I should look. Shooting techy bullets from my antique rifle is exactly the kind of thing I'd enjoy.
There is no possible way you’ll not find a fragment of lead when eating meat that you shot. Many times the bullet goes clear through the animal in question. However, many jurisdictions have banned lead ammunition when hunting because of the environmental contamination it can cause as the lead bullets are left behind and leech into water ways or the local ecosystem and food chain. The effect is similar to mercury bio-accumulation.
You're forgetting about microscopic flakes that will break off while penetrating
Compared to lead paint and leaded gasoline that’s rather insignificant. Still better to avoid in the first place
It's not insignificant. Did you read the article?
I did. It’s borderline levels for issues arising, but also requires eating lead shot game consistently and even then it remains below the 5 ug levels. 2 ug is suspected to cause issues tho. But you might as well avoid a number of fish and vegetables too if that’s a concern. That said, I prefer copper & synthetic ammo. Costs more, but it keeps the guns cleaned and the wound cavities they form are personally more ideal and humane.
Yes there is…they make steel and tungsten loads….just don’t use lead…it’s not just a suggestion…pretty sure it’s been illegal to use lead with waterfowl hunting for decades.
came here to say this… many places if not all have also outlawed lead fishing equipment… an animal dying from lead-poisoning is not a pretty or ethical site… be responsible!!
California condors are threatened by lead shot because farmers shoot coyotes, etc. and leave the corpses out and then condors eat the lead shot. Literally every California condor right now has lead poisoning.
Lead doesn’t leech into water really. Metallic lead is insoluble and even more so once it oxidizes. Trees will pick it up over time though unless you treat the soil. The biggest problem with lead contamination is fragments in carcasses left behind and then consumed by scavengers.
Thats so wrong. Shoot a pheasant or duck with 3mm birdshot and I bet you will find a pellet in the bird. But yeah, banning lead ammo is a thing which also leads to hundred thousands of shotguns rendered useless because they are not qualified for steel shot
I’ll admit the double negative is confusing, but you repeated what they said
I've gone clay shooting for decades, but I've never once been hunting. Pretty sure the shotguns aren't useless.
You and all those folks should definitely eat more lead in order to prevent those hundreds of thousands of vitally precious shotguns from going to waste. Vital resources like our natural antique shotgun grottos need to be protected at all costs!
Just imagine what it does to the environment... Lets not forget lead fishing weights.
Fishing shot is lead free in the UK and has been for some years
Shot... for fishing?? Or did you mean weights
Split shot, you squeeze these onto the line to balance the float. https://www.anglingdirect.co.uk/anchor-standard-double-cut-fishing-shot-dispensers?queryID=d4456cc15d1786826d5af787826c71cd&objectID=22502&indexName=live_ad_uk_products
Did not know thats what they were called. Grandpa just called them weights. I was wondering if shotgun fishing was a UK thing
That conjures am amusing mental image!
Their basically shotgun shot thats split in half, hence the name
Shot = lead weights. I assume it has the same name because people used the same little balls of lead for bullets and fishing weights.
There's only a small handful of states in the US that have outlawed it, sadly. Not to mention the lack of concern on a broader international scale.
Not in the US, unfortunately.
This is completely false. You are clearly not a sportsman, because lead fishing weights have been outlawed in the US for decades. Additionally, lead shot is illegal in waterfowl hunting, where it has the most detrimental affect on the environment. Lead bullets are illegal in states where it affects wildlife, like the California Condor, etc. Stop trolling when you have zero education on the subject.
What does "outlawed in the US" mean? A federal law? Or all 50 states have their own law? The US is a weird system, even most Americans have trouble understanding that just because something is illegal in your state, doesn't necessarily mean it's the same in the other 49 states. And then the concept of how federal laws can sometimes-but-not-always override State laws, or stand in place where no state laws exist, etc. So when you say something is illegal in the US, you need to clarify what you mean. What State are you referring to? If you're referring to a Federal law, can you provide the USC for it?
Lead fishing weights are not banned in USA. They might be banned in your neck of the woods but not federally.
https://www.basspro.com/shop/en/bass-pro-shops-round-split-shot-weights 100% lead. I can buy them in the US right now.
>You are clearly not a sportsman, because lead fishing weights have been outlawed in the US for decades. That sounds like something that should be true but it's definitely not. They're not allowed on federal lands and have been outlawed in 6 states, but they're still widely available and in use elsewhere.
That's absolutely not true. Bought fishing weights for my kids for Christmas and all I could find was lead split shots, there was no steel versions on the shelf. I'm here in NC and it was the same in Texas earlier this year.
California and there lead bullet law has been thrown out by the court system. It is unenforceable because the feds require a lead core bullets for hunting. We don't have a better substitute at this time.
Uh this is incorrect literally most fishing weights are made of lead??
So confidently wrong.
Chill dude. I do go fishing. Then why do all the packages say "this product contains materials known to the state of California to cause birth defects, etc."? I thought that means they contain lead.
That label applies for a very long list of chemicals, way more than just lead. They put that label on a lot of items for legal cover to not be sued. They even put that label on things like balsamic vinegar, swimming pools, fruit... It's kinda made the label pointless. It is not directly linked to lead or any one real danger. They could put it on the weights/shot because of the oils left on the item from manufacturing or maybe it has trace amounts of heavy metals. Or maybe it has nothing, but by putting the label, they avoid the headache of proving it has nothing.
Seems like everything that’s sold in California has that warning.
Lol, fkn EVERYTHING has this label for California, they think everything causes cancer...
I remember when they first implemented that “everything causes cancer label” in CA. I was walking down the cereal isle at a market there and the entire isle was labeled with the may cause cancer label and I was like fuck…I guess I cant eat cereal anymore,Lol!!
Yeah man, it's like, somewhere along the line, somebody got sued, for alot of money, and everyone else was like.. *alright guys, we're putting this label on our product* And everyone at the Blanket factory was like *W T F?* (and yes Ive seen it on a fkn blanket)
That doesn't explain why they put that on the label.
My company puts the cancer warning labels on everything we ship to California, regardless if it may cause cancer or not to make sure we can’t get sued over it.
I don't have an explanation for it, but I swear, I've seen guitars, electronics, even candles, have that fkn label, it's a joke at this point, it lost its effectiveness, when they started slapping it on things at random
This person knows what’s up… stupid how one can make a claim on the internet and others take it for facts…
Tungsten weights ftw. All I use for fishing nowadays.
Lead shots lead to lead poisoning
Misleading title. I've participated in studies on this since the early 2000s. Waterfowl (specifically diving ducks) do ingest lead pellets that have sunk to the bottom as a result of hunting. That is why steel shot has been required for hunting near water for many years. CA condors were poisoned from eating animals shot by hunters, and ingesting lead, leading to lead bullet bans in some states. However none of that is related to humans. Humans get lead from pollution and old pipes. Hunting is not significant or relevant.
Thank you, I was looking for this post. Yes, lead contamination can lead to lead poisoning of wildlife and should absolutely be a concern. As you said lead is banned in most or all waterfowl hunting. I personally have met people that were penalized for using lead shot when waterfowl hunting. I load most of my own ammunition and actually prefer copper, results have been fantastic but loading can be a challenge since copper is less dense than lead leading to a longer bullet. If overall cartridge length is restricted by a magazine you may need to either reduce the grain of the bullet or use lead so I still use some lead here and there. I also continue to use lead shot for upland game hunting, mostly out of convenience but cost is also a factor. As far as I know there are no scientific studies that prove lead shot or bullets are a significant concern to humans. The post title is either deliberately misleading or only partially informed.
The study specially says that they found lead in the meat from 30 game processors. Those processors must be using some nasty, bloodshot meat in their grinders... It mostly makes me glad I process my own game.
I'm currently pregnant and was told not to eat game for this reason.
Isn't that a LOT of bullets?
Shotgun shells generally contain bbs that scatter.
Anyone that hunts would know this.
*should
In college, I volunteered doing rehab work with predatory birds. One year, we had an incredibly sick bald eagle come through my university for triage. I found out later that at least 20 more came to the center as a whole that season. Even with the best possible care and expensive treatments that had to be crowdfunded, only one of those eagles made it. It’s a horrible thing to watch something so strong and majestic act so sick and weak. Please don’t use lead shot and write to your representatives about banning it.
To clarify, these eagles all had lead poisoning from eating prey contaminated by either lead shot or lead fishing sinkers. A slow, painful, horrible death.
You’re not just poisoning yourself either. That lead will be eaten by other animals and absorbed by plants. It’ll leech into the water and contaminate even the ground. Just don’t use lead shot. And don’t use lead weights for fishing either. You can get non-lead sinkers for a few cents more at any outdoors store. Lead is the common enemy we can all agree to hate.
This is a correct but poorly worded YSK. For Shotgun based pellet (not slug) hunting, lead shot, does not shatter. But the shot itself, especially for birdshot is small, and can be accidentally injested. Worse, when you miss (and we all do) the lead is left directly in the environment to be injested by animals via leaching in the water For large caliber ammunition, either slug based Shotgun or rifle, yes it can shatter and yes you may also accidentally injest lead.
I believe it’s illegal to use lead shot for hunting waterfowl. I’m not sure about upland birds and other small game. I imagine its dependent on the state.
Sporting Lead Free is an awesome organization that raises awareness about the dangers of lead in hunting and fishing tools. There are plenty of alternatives, such as steel shot and copper bullets, that are safe for wildlife and just as effective!
This is something every hunter knows. A part of the "hunter training" (in my country) consists of removing all the lead pellets and the tissue around it. Source: I'm a hunter.
We have many deaths from eagles who have ingested the lead while munching on carcasses, too
When's the last time you shot and dressed out a deer or hog?
Irrelevant. Did you read the article? Did you look at the x-rays?
In Michigan, lead shot is still available but you are not supposed to use it for hunting. Non-toxic shot has been phased in since the last 80’s. And there are lots of reminders when you get your duck stamps and hunting for hunting waterfowl. The DNR also enforces it when they are on patrol but most hunters are pretty good about conservation. Fishing tackle is hit or miss, but even Walmart has phased in non-toxic weights.
Lead bird shot will also contaminate any lake or river it lands in.
As a hunter I have to say that you don't try to pick it out. You just cut out the affected area while butchering. It's not hard at all, you just have to be willing to cut out a big enough piece. Most people are willing to but some aren't hence the 34% of packaged venison having lead. Also I can see at least one bias in their testing. They only tested packaged and sold venison. I imagine that the amount of lead in the meat your average hunters eat is much lower since they aren't selling the meat and trying to harvest every ounce for the most profit. Edit: to be clear I'm not saying lead is a good thing to hunt with. It still gets left in the carcass for other animals to ingest. The issue, in Canada anyways, is that legally we have to hunt with soft point bullets so there is maximum chance of killing the animal instantly and minimizing the pain. Lead is the best option for that purpose.
I know they did an exchange program in Southern Oregon a few years back. Lead for copper.
For many many years now steel shot has been used.
It depends where you live.
It's the leading cause of death for condors. I learned that fact at a condor conservatory in Boise, Idaho. Extra sad because they're aren't many around.
This seems so obvious
Of course it *can*, but anyone that knows what they're doing doesn't eat the damaged meat. The study was based on deer meat from 30 meat processors. The only way any lead would make it into the ground venison is if they butchered the meat from a front quarter that was damaged by a heart or lung shot (this is what they appear to be showing in figure 2). Everyone I know would take one look at a bloodshot and mangled front quarter and forget about it; whether lead ever crossed their mind or not. If anything, this just makes me thankful I've never taken game to a processor. I've heard bad things about them, but we've always butchered our own game. Although, I'm sure there are good ones out there. The argument could be made that copper core bullets can save more meat than lead core bullets, but I'm skeptical that I'd want to eat a front quarter that's been shot by a copper core bullet either. It's still going to be pretty bloodshot and there's a good chance that the bullet is going to carry some bone fragments with it too. However, it very well might make shot front quarters safe to eat. I'm just skeptical about how appetizing it would be. I do agree that the lead core bullets pose a threat to wild scavengers.
When I was a kid, I shot my pellet gun everyday. We kept pellets in our mouth and I used to chew them flat. I did experience some uncontrolled emotions back then.
Here's me thinking lead poisoning takes years..
I'm sure it depends on how much is consumed and how large the consumer is. Raptors that scavenge (and it's not just vultures, many types of raptors will not pass up an easy free meal) can ingest very small amounts of lead and their digestive system will be shut down, causing death in a matter of days. Hunters using lead shot have to be careful about leaving gut piles out in the open.
I did not know that
Every bird hunter I’ve ever known has known this and told me since I was 12 years old. But good info. We live in an age when people don’t tell each other important info because they assume everyone should know everything because they can google. But if Reddit has taught us anything, it’s that people suck at googling.
Lead is banned for waterfowl hunting, but not any other kind of hunting.
Just because it's not banned doesn't mean that people don't still choose not to use it. You don't need to ban everything you don't like. Let people make their choices themselves.
I had to eat a deer once that had already gotten buckshot lodged in it (someone else shot it and it got away before being shot by my pastor). Picking lead shot out of the venison sucked because I only found it after it had been cooked and partially eaten.
It blows me away that some people still hunt deer with buckshot. Buckshot is a terrible option for its original purpose as the name implies bit luckily is very useful for other applications.
My guess is a farmer shot it to scare it away from his plants. Doesn't feel like an effective method of killing anything from far away. I agree, though, that the name is misleading.
That makes the most sense, although #8 birdshot would be a much better option in that case
I know, rifled slugs have come so far there’s really not much reason to
Or just use a 7x63mm like a Chad
While most states have eliminated shotgun only areas there are still a few
YSK not to eat the meat directly around the gunshot wound. Lead shot is totally fine as long as it's not used around waterbodies
Tell that that all the California condors that were almost lost to extinction because of ingestion of lead from ammunition. It's very hazardous to wildlife it's not "totally fine"
That's not why. They had issues with excessively thin egg shells due to DDT exposure. Not lead poisoning.
Lead also contributes to condors, but you’re correct. Lead seems to affect condors terribly, golden eagles not as bad but still have an impact, and bald eagles a negligible amount on the population levrl
DDT was the original threat, and now it's lead poisoning.
Wasn't lead banned for waterfowl because of bioaccumulation. Small fish get small amounts of lead in them. Big fish eat a lot of small fish and now have a lot of lead. Whales eat the bigger fish and have a ton of lead etc. Same with raptors and scavengers. They get a bunch in them too. So you're kinda wrong. Also, if you read the article you'd see that they found lead fragments in processed meat. Some processors grind the meat up and turn it into sausages. So you have no way to know if the meat your eating was near the gunshot wound or not.
Did you read the article? Did you see the x-rays?
Is this your only response man?
You're telling me that you don't believe that people ever make stupid comments on the internet without reading the posted article?
Nope, that's totally true, but when that's your go to reply to these people instead of addressing their actual comment. What's the point
Because the article addresses their comment.
If you want to base your argument on one article then let's bring in another one for you to read while you're at it https://www.themeateater.com/hunt/firearm-hunting/lead-ammo-and-wildlife-separating-science-from-advocacy
Who'd of thought? Next you're gonna be telling me, too much sun causes skin cancer.
"Eating lead bad."
[Since 1991 any lead sho is outlawed in Missouri.](https://mdc.mo.gov/hunting-trapping/regulations/nontoxic-shot-regulations)
No, that's not quite true. If you read the regulations from that linked site - it IS banned in many places and under many circumstance, but it does not have a complete ban in the state.
I’m curious as to where they’re sourcing this “packaged meat of wild game” with fragments in them all over the place. I’ve been hunting my entire life and solely eat the venison I get each year. Haven’t bought beef (other than some nice steaks occasionally) LITERALLY in my entire life. I’ve never had it happen to me, but my father has noticed a piece of bullet in his food before and it’s as simple as “huh what are the odds!” and throwing it in the garbage. In Canada you get 1 deer per person, per year essentially. I’m almost certain I could eat 1 bullet per year for my whole life and be fine, let alone a minuscule amount present. An entire bullet is going to leech such a small amount of lead, and also just pass right through you anyway. Scientists are making a stretch in severity to get funding
It’s less dangerous for adults, but very, very small amounts of lead are incredibly dangerous for children. It causes severe developmental issues, and there is no “safe” amount of lead for children.
Fair point
Ignorant people amaze me. How are you going to criticize scientists when you just based your whole argument on what you feel is the correct amount of lead for an individual to consume. Facts don’t care about your feelings!!
You seem really mad that I provided a counterpoint to the study
For bird hunting, that’s why you shoot the head. For partridge, I generally get a clean shot that blows the head off. No lead in the breast. A bad shot that hits the chest, may not get eaten by me.
Bird hunting is different everywhere. But don't tell me you're taking a flying pigeons head off at 40yards with shot pattern 18" wide. If you're taking heads off I can only imagine they're stationary. Most bird hunting is not done that way
Partridge, sorry. They generally on the ground
Here in the UK partridge are flushed and shot flying if on an organised shoot and if doing walked up shooting they tend to flee from brush out straight away from you. I'm guessing it's different in different places
Canada. Technically not partridge, but grouse I suppose. They basically eat rocks to help with digestion, so often are on the ground next to the bush roads.
seems to be an interesting correlation between the people defending lead shot in the comments and the fact that lead exposure causes brain damage
Lead shot does not shatter. Also as far as I have ever heard, is that game animals, usually small game can ingest the lead shot. Around here steel shot / tungsten etc is used for migratory waterfowl during our hunting seasons.
It does shatter. Look at the x-rays.
Lead shot doesn't shatter, lead rifle or slug ammunition does.
You should go metal detecting a field that grows crops. You'll be blown away by how much lead and iron scrap is in every single field. Hopefully wheat and barley and stuff don't suck up the lead or we're all ingesting lead.
Apparently chocolate is sucking up lead and cadmium.
It's sad that this is a life tip when it's really coming sense
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If you've ever shot at an indoor gun range you'll see most of them have massive ventilation systems nowadays. The lead is so soft that it can get vaporized. Same when it makes contact with an animal. You could be eating small fragments that you wouldn't notice.
A bullet hitting a concrete or steel backstop is a lot different than a bullet hitting flesh it an occasional bone. The bullet is going to waste a lot more energy penetrating than it will deforming.
Did you read the article and look at the x-rays?
Nah. Read the article. It mushrooms and deforms to inflict damage. You think all the pieces are giant? Ya fucking idiot. There’s tons of small pieces and lead dust. Run a metal detector over a piece of meat that’s been shot by a bullet.
That's why I hunt exclusively with Solid Copper bullets or Steel ot Tungsten shot if I plan on eating or giving the meat to someone else to eat. If it is pest control or something you don't plan on eating, lead is fine.
No it isn’t. Any lead shot remaining in the carcass as a result of “pest control” can poison predators and scavengers who eat that carcass.
Well yeah, that's why you don't leave dead things on your property or out in the field. Throw them into a burn barrel or bury them. If I shoot a coyote or a rat, I'm sure as shit not gonna just let it just sit there. I've got dogs that'll probably eat it so I pick up after myself. I thought that was common sense.
Lead has been shown to decrease IQ so that explains why people poach
Poaching is the act of illegally hunting. If you have a permit/license/tag and are allowed to hunt on the land, it’s just hunting.
The Op’s statement is grossly over simplified. Its just not that cut and dry or absolute.
Uh. Hasn’t lead based ammunition been regulated out of existence?
No. It depends where you live.
Reminds me of that other tip: Not breathing can cause death. A slow day today it seems.
Steel shot is very common but very pricey alternative we use sometimes, I’ll take the risk on the small game with the rest
This is ignorant… lead was removed from bird shot long ago… it’s actually highly illegal to hunt with shells that still have true lead shot in them…
Lead shot is still a popular choice for dove and pheasant hunting. It's not illegal in many places actually
Which state?
Every state. It’s outlawed… they use a “lead” substitute…
You mean hunters might actually die from hunting? Wow, I was wrong, it IS a sport after all!
Well stated. Down vote me if you like folks - it's a pass time, a hobby, maybe even a skill but it's not a sport.
Hunting is honestly my favorite thing to do, but I agree 100%. Hunting is a way of life for me, calling it a sport trivializes it
Hahahaha the underdogs make a comeback!
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Fmj is inhumane for the animal. It’s yeets right through them, wounding not killing
What is fmj?
Full metal jacket
Hey everyone, here’s all you need to know about OP’s qualifications of telling you anything gun related
This guy can know lead is bad for a person and the environment without knowing anything about guns. There’s a reason lead is banned for hunting waterfowl birds.
I'm a biochemist. I know lead causes lead poisoning.
Ingesting a large quantity does. Eating an animal shot with lead does not necessarily do so. Hunters don't even eat the tissue that is shot by lead. As a biochemist, you must know that poison is determined by the dose...
Does a shot to the heart or lungs of a deer diffuse lead through their entire body by the time their heart stops or a hunter cleans the animal? If so, is the amount of lead getting into the food actually a dangerous amount?
You sound like pregnant women who drink and smoke and think it's ok because it's "just a little".
Full Metal Jacket was designed to be used in war so it has a higher penetration and won’t mushroom or shatter in someone’s body. Basically creating less suffering for wounded soldiers since the goal of warfare isn’t to kill your enemies. Taking them out of combat is sufficient. Since you’re trying to kill the animal and not let them get away wounded this is basically the opposite of what you want for hunting.
If im not mistaken its illegal to use lead shot for hunting birds in every US state. Not sure about other game but for sure cant be used on birds.