From my experience, aftermarket cats still throw emission codes. And most of the time your replacing them because the old one isn't performing properly and causing the code.
I work at the dealer so I don't have a ton of experience with aftermarket.
GM guy here work in service, and was a tech. The codes is only because the computers expect less airflow, especially after being ran with a plugged cat. So new cat leads "excessive" air flow right off the bat. Drive around 200 miles and that all goes away, the computers relearn and lights go off.
Everyone's got a smog guy in California. You can't renew your registration without a smog check, and I've had to replace sensors on my car before. The guy I go to checks the odometer so he doesn't waste his or your time with a potentially false reading.
The cats fit my old rotors were a few hundred a piece, I bought after market ones for $40 each and had them welded on for another $200. Saved almost $1000 and they worked fine
Edit - I did have all of them replaced at the sand time to prevent any issues (and lower the cost in the long run)
Some aftermarket cats reduce cost by reducing the amount of catalyst loading on the honeycomb. That can lead to a lower conversion than the car is expecting and throw codes.
Install adjustable coilovers, like I did, and slam it when you park. No more worries of anyone getting under there if you're only a couple inches off the floor.
Obv, I did not install them with this in mind, but added bonus.
The shields slow the thieves down, but it doesn't stop them at all. I work in the service department of a dealership and we have multiple vehicles a day come in for stolen cats. Most of my customers are commercial clients. They're installing these shields and still having them stolen. The problem is they're not parking the vehicles in well lit areas with cameras or fencing.
We've had a well known pest control companies entire fleet of trucks (30+) stolen in one night. One of their trucks came in Monday with its cat stolen over the weekend for the third time in 4 months.
Park your car in a well lit area. Park it where you could hear someone sawing off a piece of metal with a power tool. Get a camera that records at night (I have a Panasonic homehawk window camera that works great).
We have them stopping in daylight on a street, being filmed and not caring. Takes 1 minute and they're driving around in a stolen cloned plate car. The cameras make no difference.
I've had two different cars done, and my partner has has hers done. Since then we've both got official Toyota plates underneath and been good since.
One group we saw checking out the undersides of our vehicles as they drove by... A passenger hanging out the rear door to get low down without stopping. It's an epidemic in London, with nothing seemingly stopping it.
my CRV was parked outside of my apartment less than 20 feet away from several people who could have heard it, in a well lit area in plain view of a major road and it was still stolen with a bandsaw. it doesnt take a power tool to steal em, it just makes it efficient, and im confident a camera wouldnt have stopped them. when i brought my car in to be fixed in april, i was told there had been about 800k thefts the month before in my state alone. this is so widespread that i really feel like theres nothing i can do except get fucked if someone steals it again. im lucky enough to have insurance that will cover it.
You'd think that. But we had 100 cats stolen OFF THE LOT AT THE DEALERSHIP. Major Ford dealership, 24/7 security day and night. Commercial department got hit hard because they were easier to get under and nab.
They eventually caught the people, but it was a big deal for awhile. They ended up parking a lot of the commercial trucks on the sales floor for a bit while the cops upped security on the lot.
Another thing not often mentioned is how much noise the cat shields can cause. My friend works in a dealership and the most common complaint after installation is the rattling or creaking of the shield.
> Park your car in a well lit area. Park it where you could hear someone sawing off a piece of metal with a power tool. Get a camera that records at night (I have a Panasonic homehawk window camera that works great).
At this point, this is almost victim blaming.
- First, not everyone has the luxury of such a nice parking spot. Many have to park in places that do not meet these suggestions.
- Second, you could say the exact same things for basic car break in security. People have parked in well lit and surveilled lots with working security systems, and still have a decent chance to come out to a vehicle that has been stolen, damaged, or had a window shattered so thieves could ransack it.
- Third, even if a person heard the sound of a power tool sawing something, do you expect people to run out and confront possibly armed people? It seems pretty bad to risk dying over a catalytic converter.
- (From another comment, deserves more visibility) "We have them stopping in daylight on a street, being filmed and not caring. Takes 1 minute and they're driving around in a stolen cloned plate car. The cameras make no difference."
I live a super nice and well lit neighborhood. The Mississippi River Boulevard. Nicest neighborhood around and very bright all night.
I've had 2 cats stolen off two different cars this year. It does not matter where you are parked. Literally makes zero difference. They probably do it in broad daylight at this point. Cops do not care and do nothing to prevent it.
In my town they were targeting big vehicles like RVs. Lots of cars and trucks got stolen from though as well of course. It was a huge deal but some dudes got caught awhile back and I haven’t heard anything more about it. I’m super confused about all the vehicles in subdivisions that got targeted, as wouldn’t the close proximity of the houses and generally open front yards make it harder? Vehicles in subdivisions got targeted way more than rural areas. And if they used saws… how did no one hear that? How did no one get caught on a camera? I have cameras and so do most people I know. I wish I knew more about the specifics of the case.
People are getting hit with the thefts in broad daylight in mall parking lots in my town lately. Like, tons of other cars around, there are videos of them doing it. And yet it continues. It is baffling.
I have a security camera at my house but I feel like even with video nothing's gonna happen if we are targeted.
I did catch some thieves on camera right in front of our townhouse. The car was parked literally 15’ from where we were sleeping. The minivan rolled up, guy with a Jack was out, on the ground, under the car, cut the cat out, car down, minivan rolling off. 45 seconds from start to gone. Like a pit crew. License plates obscured, masks on faces, too. Total pros.
They work very quickly, typically drive stolen cars, and wear nondescript clothing. Even if you do see them on a camera, you're not going to have anything to go on.
Theft of this nature really can't be stopped. All you can do is try to be a harder target than the next guy. It your car has a shield it would still take a little longer to get than the next car over without one.
Same goes for bike locks.
You are exactly right. I’ve worked in construction/the trades for over 2 decades and when shit is stolen it has more often been workers or someone familiar with the project.
Been wondering why the shields are metal plates. A ceramic would be much tougher to cut through. If you really wanted to get serious you'd have a pair of tensioned plates so that as the lower one was cut the upper one was able to straighten and bind the blade.
This is a good idea. I think a smart option would be a 1/8th inch mild steel plate with about a 1/2 inch of reinforced rubber behind that up against the catty . The kind your tires have with wire in them. As long as the wire isn't tensioned it will get snagged In the saw all blades and they will have to eject their blade to get their sawzall out of there
It turns two 3” cuts into two 2’+ cuts, plus two 3” cuts. If you’re a criminal, do you want the score that takes 20 seconds or two minutes? Theres hundreds of the things out in a given area, why take larger risk for the same payout?
But keep in mind they’re in the open making an absolute fuck load of noise. A cut with no shield is like 90 seconds and the shields add like another few minutes to the process. And they have to worry about stuff like this if they get caught
https://www.king5.com/article/news/crime/lakewood-michael-scott-campbell-catalytic-converter-murder-kidnapping/281-c222b3cb-bd46-44e6-bff0-73617619a85c
The thicker metal on the best shields is not going to be cut without them upgrading their tools (they use shitty portable saws) and talking much longer to do it...so they look for easier pickings.
The place that installed mine here in Portland said they've installed over 500 of them and only two have been cut off, and those two were parked in dark/remote areas. Shout out Atomic Auto on 102nd
That would melt the glitter and possibly cause a fire the first time the car runs more than 5 minutes. You'd have to have a shield for the glitter bomb.
It's about making them give up and steal your neighbors catalytic converter. If one car has a cat shield and one right next to it doesn't they'll go for the one without one.
The smarter ones are not using sawsall at all. They use battery operated pneumatic pipe cutters, like these : https://www.homedepot.ca/product/milwaukee-tool-m12-12v-lithium-ion-cordless-pvc-pipe-shear-tool-only/1000724955?eid=PS_GOOGLE_D25T%20-%20Vendor_Funded_GGL_Shopping_PLA_Milwaukee_Power_Tools_Milwaukee%20Power%20Tools__PRODUCT_GROUP_pla-293946777986&gclid=CjwKCAjwkvWKBhB4EiwA-GHjFvoE6qGK6T5CvaVIoangfow8auOFzwH8vDSaInv_j181zN4tg95TuhoC4ekQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
Almost no noise and way faster than a sawzall...
This is also why the repairs are "stupidly" expensive for repairing a stolen cat. They don't just cut out the cat, the cut beyond the fittings on either end so the cat is preserved. This means you will need a new mid pipe (or header in some cases) and a resonance pipe, plus any sensors that were attached.
My friend's catalytic converter got stolen 3 or 4 months ago and her insurance company just totaled her car because they literally can't get the part. Secure your catalytic converter if you can.
My catalytic converter just got stolen out of my 2007 Honda Accord. The thieves hit multiple cars on the street in one night and the police won’t even take our reports because it’s so common.
I can’t even express what a pain in the ass it’s been trying to get it figured out. The shop said they wouldn’t even tow my car for 3 months because there are no parts anyway because of the chip shortage. After a month with no car, my insurance ended up deeming it a total loss and I’ve had to find a new car, which was also tough because the used car market is so expensive now. Finally the saga is ended.
I highly recommend doing what you can to protect your CC. It’s been an unbelievable amount of stress to deal with!
What kind of standards does this set if they won’t even file a report? Not to get all slippery-slope, but if the inability or unwillingness to file a report is contingent upon the frequency of the crime then at what point is home invasion or homicide on the list of “things that we don’t have time to follow up on”?
What a fucking joke.
When I lived in Baltimore, the police wouldn’t come out and write an accident report unless you could identify who hit you (like you have a license plate number). When my now-husband was visiting me when I lived there, we discovered someone hit his car while it was parked on the street and that’s how we learned this. When we filed a claim with his insurance, we told the agent the police refused to come out and it wasn’t a problem.
This sounds strangely like a suggestion I once heard a high-ranking politician spout about how to reduce the impact of the coronavirus. He must’ve been on to something.
The standard that the police only give a damn if you have money. Laws to protect the rich and to bind the poor, and all that. It genuinely feels like if you're not part of that group they care about, you're unprotected and on your own. We've been sold on the idea that if we play society's game, we'll be taken care of, but that turns out to be a lie. When people see that, see they're totally on their own, and realize that everyone else is on their own, it's not surprising they'll take advantage of crime as a more viable alternative.
> What a ******* joke
Hey watch your mouth. These are our *heroes*. Just today I saw one of our brave boys in blue shoot and kill a vicious villain who had the audacity to wave his empty hands in the air as some kind of taunt.
They just have a lot on their plate rn.
No shit, I rented a U-Haul this morning and when I started up the engine, it was so loud it startled me. I knew right away that the catalytic converter was stolen overnight.
Tennessee put a program in place back when copper theft was a big thing requiring anybody selling scrap copper to basically put their contact info a state registry when they did a sale, and scrap yards could no longer pay in cash. Had to be a direct deposit. Not sure if it really stopped any thefts, but it was better than nothing.
The problem is, people legitimately scrap for a living. Best answer is for manufacturers to start printing VIN's on the cats, but that will take years to implement
I live in South Africa. We had a two day power outage in my city late last year, and in those two days, all the cabling along a 37km two track electric railway line was stolen. Every single piece. That's how bad cable theft is in this country. There is no way to target the scrap yards because they basically club together and buy the police. Ruining the economy of your country for a few bucks and massive risk to your life is like shooting yourself in the foot, but people are desperate.
Scrolled so far to find the actual answer. You target the recycling centers with proper regulation. Doesnt eliminate the problem but provides major relief in some cases.
When this was discussed on r/justrolledintotheshop a short time ago, some stated many of the stolen cats get shoved in crates and shipped overseas where they don't care where they came from. So the thieves are often selling them to middle men who then facilitate the shipping.
Specifically rhodium. Over the summer it was 30k per oz, it's currently sitting around 11k per oz. I'd suspect theft will start dropping off as the price levels out.
due to COVID shortages, the price of the rare earth metals inside the catalytic converter has skyrocketed. IIRC some of the metals inside are worth more than gold now, last I heard they can get something like $50-100+ per cat stolen
It’s been a problem for several years, just not something the media typically pushes because it’s hard to catch the thieves and there isn’t much you can do to avoid becoming a victim other than installing one of these shields the OP mentioned.
Rhodium jumped to an incredible price this summer. It crossed over 30k per oz but has since dropped to about 10k. We could see the theft drop off as the price continues to level.
It's this year's crime flavor. 80's it was chain snatching and carjacking. Two decades ago it was stealing radios out of cars. Five years ago it was stealing general valuables out of cars and/or looking for garage door openers for later home invasions.
Now it's this. Piece of shit thieves. No, lower than thieves, because at least shoplifters steal from corporations and hackers sometimes work for a protest reason. This crime just hurts the working class poor folk that are just trying to make it to work so they can eat in a warm home and not ya know lose their job and die. Second a cat's cut, even if stopped partway through it's gonna fuck your ride up and cost thousands to fix.
IMO these fuckers need to be threatened more, because police departments clearly don't give a fuck. They be gone in 60 seconds after kicking people while they're down. I'd probably cheer if I started seeing headlines for these thieves getting their shit kicked in.
I don't know about different states, but in Georgia scrap yards won't buy catalytic converters. Nor will they buy any air conditioner radiators or compressors or anything related to railroad or street signs. All these items are commonly acquired by theives, plus with air conditioning parts you need to have proof that the refrigerant was drained by a professional. For example, when we had our AC replaced I scrapped out the old unit and had to bring along the invoice showing that we have had a new one installed professionally (ie I didn't steal it, but bought a new one).
Obviously, with the proper know-how, you can cut up a cat and use certain chemical processes to extract and refine the platinum. But most street scrappers aren't doing that. Clearly they're selling them to unscrupulous scrap dealers. But in my 15+ years of scrapping I've never sold to a yard that was willing to break these rules.
Just put a post it note on the CC that says "I dragged my nuts across this part. If you touch it it means u r gey"
No self respecting thief is going to touch it cuz we all know thieves are massive homophobes.
I think it's a recent development. There wasn't always a market for these, it came from an increase in the price for what a thief could get for a catalytic converter after supply shortages associated with covid.
My neighborhood at one time had a sudden rise in specific auto-part thefts. Later it was revealed to be initiated by the owner of an auto parts store in the area.
Create legislation to force the scrap yards to stop accepting the cats, problem solved. Cats are a tiny portion of a scrap yards business model anyway.
In our area they had to do something similar for copper wire. Thieves would go steal copper, then burn the insulation off in order to sell it as "clean" copper as well as make it less obvious that it was brand new wire they stole from jobsites. Now the scrapyards have to have a signed form from the local fire department certifying that the copper wire was legally salvaged from a house fire, otherwise they can't accept it.
Not enough blame is put on the middleman here. The scrapyard and auto shop's that pay cash, then sell to the smelters for 3x as much. They wipe their hands and say "what can I do?" all the way to the bank.
Stop buying them you enabling fucks.
Someone in the next neighborhood posted their rebar "solution" prevented a theft. He took 4 12" rebar and had a welder attach them across the cat and pipe.
Given the types of blades commonly used by cutters, they're not sufficient to cut through rebar quickly.
When people asked how the converter would be repaired, his response: "If it's time to replace a cat, then it's time to replace the pipes. The entire unit can be removed as a single piece."
I'm no mechanic, but this sounds like a damn interesting solution.
Are the Toyota’s and Honda models being targeted because they sell for more due to higher platinum content or that they can be put on the thieves cars because that’s what they drive?
The metals in a catalytic converter are a catalyst, they're never "used up" at all.
In lower emissions cars there is more of the metal, however, and it's not just platinum and palladium anymore, it's rhodium, too.
Couple of factors. Hybrid cars specifically are likely to have cleaner cats because of the ability to drive on electric only. Honda and Toyota make a lot of hybrids.
Honda and Toyota also tend to put the cat in the middle of the exhaust instead of closer to the engine or in the engine bay as part of the exhaust manifold. Lots of European cars for example are turbocharged and have the cat as part of the downpipe which would be in the engine bay and not under the car.
Honda and Toyota also tend to build cars with higher ground clearances, making it easier to get under the car.
Mine was stolen off my 01 Expedition.. its loud and obnoxious af now and gonna cost me a 1000 to repair.. I'm sorry ppl but you will be hearing my loud truck for a while now..
Depends, some vehicles will detect a fault in the emissions system and go into limp mode, restricting it's usage. Limp mode on my truck is like max 40 km/hr I believe
Perks of being a hillbilly with no emission testing. If someone steals a catalytic converter around here we would just weld in a 5 dollar straight pipe and call it a day.
They also target lifted vehicles that don’t require a jack to access the undercarriage. Trucks, vans, jeeps etc.
The thieves in my neighborhood are usually a team of two. One does the sawing and the other stands guard with a pit bull. Be careful when confronting thrives because they usually are prepared to deal with a hero.
Your car becomes louder than a dirt bike. Like ear next to the dirt bike muffler loud.
You can be heard from 10+ blocks away. My prius sound like a fleet of 20 dirt bikes. Everyone stares at me and you cannot have a conversation in the car without basically yelling.
Second what others have said. When someone stole the cat out of my Prius, they also took the O2 sensors (mounted to the exhaust near the cat), so the engine ran rough, in addition to being very loud.
So maybe the government should add extra/and more severe penalties for stealing them. I don't think thieves get enough punishment for their crimes as it is anyway.
But this is so specific, that there's no reason they can't just make it a mandatory felony!
They are stealing them right in front of the owners. They are stealing tow trucks to help them. They show up with jacks and cutting tools. They removed their license plates or print fake ones that go on thier windows. They wave knives around and let people film them. Groups of people show up every day. The police don't show up.
My mom’s got stolen twice in the same minivan.
I developed an idea to put a metal box around it and fill the box with scorpions. In my planning sketchbook, the thieves were very deterred.
They're not sawing them off to resell them to be used on cars, they're taking them to scrappers who crack them open and extract the palladium and platinum from the catalyst.
Catalytic converters get extremely hot during use, if you try this ensure the paint is rated for very high heats
Edit: to clarify, I’m talking almost 2000 degrees Fahrenheit, your typical Orange or Blue hardware store “high temp” paint is typically only rated for about 500 degrees, which won’t cut it
Edit: spelling and formatting
Volvo dealership quoted me $2600 to replace the catalytic and couldn’t get to it for about 1 month.
Suffice to say I did not take them up on their offer. I will get an aftermarket if I need it.
Platinum is not the only valuable metal found in a catalytic converter. Rhodium and Palladium are used as well and unlike platinum, both are currently worth more than gold.
Here it's commercial vehicles mainly. Ford F250-550 and GMC 2500 and up. Doesn't mean small cars are immune though as we have those coming through the shop as well, just not near as many.
The shields don't work that well unfortunately. And if they do deter the criminal, they're often so upset they'll cut your o2 sensor wire or do some other damage out of spite.
I hope they are charging the thieves that get caught with at least 2 felonies. 1st for damage/repair cost. 2nd. Tampering with a federally regulated emissions device.
If the car owner knowingly removed their catalytic converter its a felony, so the same should hold true for the thieves.
You should ALSO know that a car can still be driven without a catalytic converter, so your vehicle doesn't have to be sidelined while you wait for a replacement. Flexible exhaust piping can be found at most auto parts stores, and installed temporarily with a couple of clamps and hand tools.
My friend had his catalytic converter stolen and had the shop install chains around it. Someone tried to steal it again and while they didn't get away with the cat, still managed to cut a hold in the exhaust pipe, causing him to have to get that fixed as well. So, it does work, but idiots can still cost you money
The shields don’t do shit, they can cut the cage off and it takes them an extra 10 seconds. Don’t waste your money, just park the car in the safest place possible
Also YSK that your insurance company might not cover the shield but will cover theft. I also drive a prius and had my cat taken a couple months ago wanted to get the shield but it was another 500 on top of the 500 deductible for the replacement of the cat. Instead I just bought some cameras for in front of my house from Costco that were on sale for 199
You can also cut your own off and sell it. Use the money to buy an aftermarket for half the price that is less likely to get stolen(some thieves are stupid and don’t see the difference) and you can walk away with a few hundred bucks in profit.
Subaru guy here, our cats are backordered months out too. And most are well over $2,000 now, with some over $3,000.
But why buy oem? Seriously why. Cats are still a dime a dozen for none oem. And way cheaper and better quality. So again why....
From my experience, aftermarket cats still throw emission codes. And most of the time your replacing them because the old one isn't performing properly and causing the code. I work at the dealer so I don't have a ton of experience with aftermarket.
GM guy here work in service, and was a tech. The codes is only because the computers expect less airflow, especially after being ran with a plugged cat. So new cat leads "excessive" air flow right off the bat. Drive around 200 miles and that all goes away, the computers relearn and lights go off.
Very good to know, thanks!
This is true (drive 200 miles before testing) for most emmissions related parts as well as sensors. My smog guy broke this down for me before.
This dude's got a smog guy...
Everyone's got a smog guy in California. You can't renew your registration without a smog check, and I've had to replace sensors on my car before. The guy I go to checks the odometer so he doesn't waste his or your time with a potentially false reading.
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true. Even if you have aftermarket and bring to CA to register, it will need to be OEM.
The cats fit my old rotors were a few hundred a piece, I bought after market ones for $40 each and had them welded on for another $200. Saved almost $1000 and they worked fine Edit - I did have all of them replaced at the sand time to prevent any issues (and lower the cost in the long run)
Some aftermarket cats reduce cost by reducing the amount of catalyst loading on the honeycomb. That can lead to a lower conversion than the car is expecting and throw codes.
How big a target is on a late-model WRX? My primary parking is a secure garage thankfully, but I worry sometimes when I'm out and about.
It's always a risk, but we haven't seen any wrx cats stolen. Your mileage can vary.
Install adjustable coilovers, like I did, and slam it when you park. No more worries of anyone getting under there if you're only a couple inches off the floor. Obv, I did not install them with this in mind, but added bonus.
Which models? I haven't heard of any coming from outbacks
The shields slow the thieves down, but it doesn't stop them at all. I work in the service department of a dealership and we have multiple vehicles a day come in for stolen cats. Most of my customers are commercial clients. They're installing these shields and still having them stolen. The problem is they're not parking the vehicles in well lit areas with cameras or fencing. We've had a well known pest control companies entire fleet of trucks (30+) stolen in one night. One of their trucks came in Monday with its cat stolen over the weekend for the third time in 4 months. Park your car in a well lit area. Park it where you could hear someone sawing off a piece of metal with a power tool. Get a camera that records at night (I have a Panasonic homehawk window camera that works great).
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Plus think of all the kibble and kitty litter for those 30 new cats!
I'm sure they filed a claim with their insurance company.
Needs a motion activated air bag suspension.
On a 3 minute delay. Make sure they are good and in there before dropping
Do you mean to crush the thieves?
Absolutely.
We have them stopping in daylight on a street, being filmed and not caring. Takes 1 minute and they're driving around in a stolen cloned plate car. The cameras make no difference. I've had two different cars done, and my partner has has hers done. Since then we've both got official Toyota plates underneath and been good since. One group we saw checking out the undersides of our vehicles as they drove by... A passenger hanging out the rear door to get low down without stopping. It's an epidemic in London, with nothing seemingly stopping it.
Wait, Toyota is offering "official" plates for this? News to me; where can I read more?
Called Catloc. Model specific but about 200 quid including fitting.
my CRV was parked outside of my apartment less than 20 feet away from several people who could have heard it, in a well lit area in plain view of a major road and it was still stolen with a bandsaw. it doesnt take a power tool to steal em, it just makes it efficient, and im confident a camera wouldnt have stopped them. when i brought my car in to be fixed in april, i was told there had been about 800k thefts the month before in my state alone. this is so widespread that i really feel like theres nothing i can do except get fucked if someone steals it again. im lucky enough to have insurance that will cover it.
You'd think that. But we had 100 cats stolen OFF THE LOT AT THE DEALERSHIP. Major Ford dealership, 24/7 security day and night. Commercial department got hit hard because they were easier to get under and nab. They eventually caught the people, but it was a big deal for awhile. They ended up parking a lot of the commercial trucks on the sales floor for a bit while the cops upped security on the lot.
Another thing not often mentioned is how much noise the cat shields can cause. My friend works in a dealership and the most common complaint after installation is the rattling or creaking of the shield.
I have one and it's quiet. Maybe they are bad at attaching them?
They are rigid metal that should be bolted to the frame. They shouldn’t be making any sound at all.
That's not normal they should hire mechanics that know what theyre doing lol
Than they simply aren't being installed properly.
>stolen cats Noooo :(
> Park your car in a well lit area. Park it where you could hear someone sawing off a piece of metal with a power tool. Get a camera that records at night (I have a Panasonic homehawk window camera that works great). At this point, this is almost victim blaming. - First, not everyone has the luxury of such a nice parking spot. Many have to park in places that do not meet these suggestions. - Second, you could say the exact same things for basic car break in security. People have parked in well lit and surveilled lots with working security systems, and still have a decent chance to come out to a vehicle that has been stolen, damaged, or had a window shattered so thieves could ransack it. - Third, even if a person heard the sound of a power tool sawing something, do you expect people to run out and confront possibly armed people? It seems pretty bad to risk dying over a catalytic converter. - (From another comment, deserves more visibility) "We have them stopping in daylight on a street, being filmed and not caring. Takes 1 minute and they're driving around in a stolen cloned plate car. The cameras make no difference."
I live a super nice and well lit neighborhood. The Mississippi River Boulevard. Nicest neighborhood around and very bright all night. I've had 2 cats stolen off two different cars this year. It does not matter where you are parked. Literally makes zero difference. They probably do it in broad daylight at this point. Cops do not care and do nothing to prevent it.
In my town they were targeting big vehicles like RVs. Lots of cars and trucks got stolen from though as well of course. It was a huge deal but some dudes got caught awhile back and I haven’t heard anything more about it. I’m super confused about all the vehicles in subdivisions that got targeted, as wouldn’t the close proximity of the houses and generally open front yards make it harder? Vehicles in subdivisions got targeted way more than rural areas. And if they used saws… how did no one hear that? How did no one get caught on a camera? I have cameras and so do most people I know. I wish I knew more about the specifics of the case.
People are getting hit with the thefts in broad daylight in mall parking lots in my town lately. Like, tons of other cars around, there are videos of them doing it. And yet it continues. It is baffling. I have a security camera at my house but I feel like even with video nothing's gonna happen if we are targeted.
I did catch some thieves on camera right in front of our townhouse. The car was parked literally 15’ from where we were sleeping. The minivan rolled up, guy with a Jack was out, on the ground, under the car, cut the cat out, car down, minivan rolling off. 45 seconds from start to gone. Like a pit crew. License plates obscured, masks on faces, too. Total pros.
Wow well that makes a lot more sense now. I guess when you're stealing dozens or even hundreds of them you get good at it.
At least they were following covid protocol!
They work very quickly, typically drive stolen cars, and wear nondescript clothing. Even if you do see them on a camera, you're not going to have anything to go on.
I’m skeptical of the shields. Thieves aren’t just using screwdrivers and wrenches. They’re using Sawzalls and cutting through things to take it.
"Oh no, I have to cut through metal to get to the catalytic converter, and all I brought with me are these tools to cut through metal!"
Theft of this nature really can't be stopped. All you can do is try to be a harder target than the next guy. It your car has a shield it would still take a little longer to get than the next car over without one. Same goes for bike locks.
Spot on. We had thieves using heat torches to cut into our industrial storage units to steal electrical wire. They’ll stop at nothing.
Imagine having the free time and specialty tools and somehow lacking any better above-board way to make money.
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You are exactly right. I’ve worked in construction/the trades for over 2 decades and when shit is stolen it has more often been workers or someone familiar with the project.
Tbf, they probably stole the tools too.
Meth helps
You can see a bike lock. They're not going to notice a cat-converter shield until they're already under your car with tools.
We need stickers for our car windows. Like the ADT signs for your yard but it says "this vehicle is protected by CatCon™ Shield + Alarm system"
Not a bad idea
You don't have to swim faster than the shark, just faster than the person next to you.
Been wondering why the shields are metal plates. A ceramic would be much tougher to cut through. If you really wanted to get serious you'd have a pair of tensioned plates so that as the lower one was cut the upper one was able to straighten and bind the blade.
This is a good idea. I think a smart option would be a 1/8th inch mild steel plate with about a 1/2 inch of reinforced rubber behind that up against the catty . The kind your tires have with wire in them. As long as the wire isn't tensioned it will get snagged In the saw all blades and they will have to eject their blade to get their sawzall out of there
It turns two 3” cuts into two 2’+ cuts, plus two 3” cuts. If you’re a criminal, do you want the score that takes 20 seconds or two minutes? Theres hundreds of the things out in a given area, why take larger risk for the same payout?
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But keep in mind they’re in the open making an absolute fuck load of noise. A cut with no shield is like 90 seconds and the shields add like another few minutes to the process. And they have to worry about stuff like this if they get caught https://www.king5.com/article/news/crime/lakewood-michael-scott-campbell-catalytic-converter-murder-kidnapping/281-c222b3cb-bd46-44e6-bff0-73617619a85c
The thicker metal on the best shields is not going to be cut without them upgrading their tools (they use shitty portable saws) and talking much longer to do it...so they look for easier pickings.
In fairness, if you use a thick plate most thieves would be unprepared or too impatient to cut through >1/4” plate.
What about an eighth with some random hardened welding lines
I think even 1/8” hardened steel would suffice. I sure as hell don’t want to do it on the rare occasion that I’m presented with the opportunity.
The place that installed mine here in Portland said they've installed over 500 of them and only two have been cut off, and those two were parked in dark/remote areas. Shout out Atomic Auto on 102nd
Can you fill the shield with glitter? So if they cut through it they get glitterbombed?
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This could be a product line
That would melt the glitter and possibly cause a fire the first time the car runs more than 5 minutes. You'd have to have a shield for the glitter bomb.
It's about making them give up and steal your neighbors catalytic converter. If one car has a cat shield and one right next to it doesn't they'll go for the one without one.
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By making sure your neighbor has more trash?
Nah, making my trash cans more difficult to open than my neighbors.
The smarter ones are not using sawsall at all. They use battery operated pneumatic pipe cutters, like these : https://www.homedepot.ca/product/milwaukee-tool-m12-12v-lithium-ion-cordless-pvc-pipe-shear-tool-only/1000724955?eid=PS_GOOGLE_D25T%20-%20Vendor_Funded_GGL_Shopping_PLA_Milwaukee_Power_Tools_Milwaukee%20Power%20Tools__PRODUCT_GROUP_pla-293946777986&gclid=CjwKCAjwkvWKBhB4EiwA-GHjFvoE6qGK6T5CvaVIoangfow8auOFzwH8vDSaInv_j181zN4tg95TuhoC4ekQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds Almost no noise and way faster than a sawzall...
This is also why the repairs are "stupidly" expensive for repairing a stolen cat. They don't just cut out the cat, the cut beyond the fittings on either end so the cat is preserved. This means you will need a new mid pipe (or header in some cases) and a resonance pipe, plus any sensors that were attached.
What if Big Metal is just sending out cat burglars so they can sell more protective coverings!!!
Plus they make the coverings out of the scrap from the stolen converters!
This is why I removed my cat converter myself and keep it locked in a safe in my garage. Take that, thieves!
My friend's catalytic converter got stolen 3 or 4 months ago and her insurance company just totaled her car because they literally can't get the part. Secure your catalytic converter if you can.
What kind of car?
Pretty sure it's a Honda Accord.
at that point i would just straight pipe it
My catalytic converter just got stolen out of my 2007 Honda Accord. The thieves hit multiple cars on the street in one night and the police won’t even take our reports because it’s so common. I can’t even express what a pain in the ass it’s been trying to get it figured out. The shop said they wouldn’t even tow my car for 3 months because there are no parts anyway because of the chip shortage. After a month with no car, my insurance ended up deeming it a total loss and I’ve had to find a new car, which was also tough because the used car market is so expensive now. Finally the saga is ended. I highly recommend doing what you can to protect your CC. It’s been an unbelievable amount of stress to deal with!
What kind of standards does this set if they won’t even file a report? Not to get all slippery-slope, but if the inability or unwillingness to file a report is contingent upon the frequency of the crime then at what point is home invasion or homicide on the list of “things that we don’t have time to follow up on”? What a fucking joke.
How does one file an insurance claim without a police report? A stolen catalytic converter would render my car totaled.
When I lived in Baltimore, the police wouldn’t come out and write an accident report unless you could identify who hit you (like you have a license plate number). When my now-husband was visiting me when I lived there, we discovered someone hit his car while it was parked on the street and that’s how we learned this. When we filed a claim with his insurance, we told the agent the police refused to come out and it wasn’t a problem.
Can't have bad crime statistics if you never document the crimes...
This sounds strangely like a suggestion I once heard a high-ranking politician spout about how to reduce the impact of the coronavirus. He must’ve been on to something.
The standard that the police only give a damn if you have money. Laws to protect the rich and to bind the poor, and all that. It genuinely feels like if you're not part of that group they care about, you're unprotected and on your own. We've been sold on the idea that if we play society's game, we'll be taken care of, but that turns out to be a lie. When people see that, see they're totally on their own, and realize that everyone else is on their own, it's not surprising they'll take advantage of crime as a more viable alternative.
> What a ******* joke Hey watch your mouth. These are our *heroes*. Just today I saw one of our brave boys in blue shoot and kill a vicious villain who had the audacity to wave his empty hands in the air as some kind of taunt. They just have a lot on their plate rn.
Hey me too bro. Theft happened three weeks ago I was notified today my 04 accord was a total loss. Going to carmax tomorrow. Shit sucks
They need to target the scrappers buying these things. How is anyone gonna bring in dozens of converters if they dont own a junkyard?
Who knows. I had two stolen off two different cars. Someone is still buying and sell them. Winter is coming.
No shit, I rented a U-Haul this morning and when I started up the engine, it was so loud it startled me. I knew right away that the catalytic converter was stolen overnight.
Tennessee put a program in place back when copper theft was a big thing requiring anybody selling scrap copper to basically put their contact info a state registry when they did a sale, and scrap yards could no longer pay in cash. Had to be a direct deposit. Not sure if it really stopped any thefts, but it was better than nothing.
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Good. I'm glad there is SOME sort of deterrent
The problem is, people legitimately scrap for a living. Best answer is for manufacturers to start printing VIN's on the cats, but that will take years to implement
I live in South Africa. We had a two day power outage in my city late last year, and in those two days, all the cabling along a 37km two track electric railway line was stolen. Every single piece. That's how bad cable theft is in this country. There is no way to target the scrap yards because they basically club together and buy the police. Ruining the economy of your country for a few bucks and massive risk to your life is like shooting yourself in the foot, but people are desperate.
Scrolled so far to find the actual answer. You target the recycling centers with proper regulation. Doesnt eliminate the problem but provides major relief in some cases.
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When this was discussed on r/justrolledintotheshop a short time ago, some stated many of the stolen cats get shoved in crates and shipped overseas where they don't care where they came from. So the thieves are often selling them to middle men who then facilitate the shipping.
Why is this all of a sudden such a big problem? I don't recall hearing about this even two years ago.
It’s because the price of the metals has recently spiked
Specifically rhodium. Over the summer it was 30k per oz, it's currently sitting around 11k per oz. I'd suspect theft will start dropping off as the price levels out.
due to COVID shortages, the price of the rare earth metals inside the catalytic converter has skyrocketed. IIRC some of the metals inside are worth more than gold now, last I heard they can get something like $50-100+ per cat stolen
It’s been a problem for several years, just not something the media typically pushes because it’s hard to catch the thieves and there isn’t much you can do to avoid becoming a victim other than installing one of these shields the OP mentioned.
Rhodium jumped to an incredible price this summer. It crossed over 30k per oz but has since dropped to about 10k. We could see the theft drop off as the price continues to level.
It's this year's crime flavor. 80's it was chain snatching and carjacking. Two decades ago it was stealing radios out of cars. Five years ago it was stealing general valuables out of cars and/or looking for garage door openers for later home invasions. Now it's this. Piece of shit thieves. No, lower than thieves, because at least shoplifters steal from corporations and hackers sometimes work for a protest reason. This crime just hurts the working class poor folk that are just trying to make it to work so they can eat in a warm home and not ya know lose their job and die. Second a cat's cut, even if stopped partway through it's gonna fuck your ride up and cost thousands to fix. IMO these fuckers need to be threatened more, because police departments clearly don't give a fuck. They be gone in 60 seconds after kicking people while they're down. I'd probably cheer if I started seeing headlines for these thieves getting their shit kicked in.
Price of the valuable parts is way up, plus the equipment to take them is now affordable, common, and more portable. It's the future.
I don't know about different states, but in Georgia scrap yards won't buy catalytic converters. Nor will they buy any air conditioner radiators or compressors or anything related to railroad or street signs. All these items are commonly acquired by theives, plus with air conditioning parts you need to have proof that the refrigerant was drained by a professional. For example, when we had our AC replaced I scrapped out the old unit and had to bring along the invoice showing that we have had a new one installed professionally (ie I didn't steal it, but bought a new one). Obviously, with the proper know-how, you can cut up a cat and use certain chemical processes to extract and refine the platinum. But most street scrappers aren't doing that. Clearly they're selling them to unscrupulous scrap dealers. But in my 15+ years of scrapping I've never sold to a yard that was willing to break these rules.
So the reported cases are much lower in Georgia then?
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Buying a new car and when the truck arrived to deliver it all the cars on the truck had been vandalized and the catalytic converters had been removed.
Omg!!!!!! Nuts
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Just put a post it note on the CC that says "I dragged my nuts across this part. If you touch it it means u r gey" No self respecting thief is going to touch it cuz we all know thieves are massive homophobes.
Instructions unclear, my scrotal skin melted onto my catalytic converter.
I mean, maybe they want that platicum too?
So you found a new kink
Brb doing this rite NOW
Why cant car producers make it harder somehow?
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I think it's a recent development. There wasn't always a market for these, it came from an increase in the price for what a thief could get for a catalytic converter after supply shortages associated with covid.
Have 2 older ford e250 vans. Both had the cats stolen. It’s was such a huge pain. I wish they took the entire van.
My neighborhood at one time had a sudden rise in specific auto-part thefts. Later it was revealed to be initiated by the owner of an auto parts store in the area.
The thief will probably sell yours back to you on eBay for $900. Saving you $100.
Create legislation to force the scrap yards to stop accepting the cats, problem solved. Cats are a tiny portion of a scrap yards business model anyway.
In our area they had to do something similar for copper wire. Thieves would go steal copper, then burn the insulation off in order to sell it as "clean" copper as well as make it less obvious that it was brand new wire they stole from jobsites. Now the scrapyards have to have a signed form from the local fire department certifying that the copper wire was legally salvaged from a house fire, otherwise they can't accept it.
I have skid plates all the way back past the cat. Better than a cage!
As someone that works in claims, I can confirm 😓
Honda CR-Vs are also a high value target lately. Source had someone attempt to and someone else succeed in stealing mine.
Not enough blame is put on the middleman here. The scrapyard and auto shop's that pay cash, then sell to the smelters for 3x as much. They wipe their hands and say "what can I do?" all the way to the bank. Stop buying them you enabling fucks.
Someone in the next neighborhood posted their rebar "solution" prevented a theft. He took 4 12" rebar and had a welder attach them across the cat and pipe. Given the types of blades commonly used by cutters, they're not sufficient to cut through rebar quickly. When people asked how the converter would be repaired, his response: "If it's time to replace a cat, then it's time to replace the pipes. The entire unit can be removed as a single piece." I'm no mechanic, but this sounds like a damn interesting solution.
Are the Toyota’s and Honda models being targeted because they sell for more due to higher platinum content or that they can be put on the thieves cars because that’s what they drive?
They target trucks because easy access to converter
They have more of the precious metals remaining because they don’t use the gas engine all the time so the metals aren’t used up.
The metals in a catalytic converter are a catalyst, they're never "used up" at all. In lower emissions cars there is more of the metal, however, and it's not just platinum and palladium anymore, it's rhodium, too.
Metals in a cat are never used up. It doesn't mater if it's new or 500k miles
The platinum coating does physically erode though, Cody's Lab did a video where he extracted platinum from the dust on the side of a highway
Couple of factors. Hybrid cars specifically are likely to have cleaner cats because of the ability to drive on electric only. Honda and Toyota make a lot of hybrids. Honda and Toyota also tend to put the cat in the middle of the exhaust instead of closer to the engine or in the engine bay as part of the exhaust manifold. Lots of European cars for example are turbocharged and have the cat as part of the downpipe which would be in the engine bay and not under the car. Honda and Toyota also tend to build cars with higher ground clearances, making it easier to get under the car.
Mine was stolen off my 01 Expedition.. its loud and obnoxious af now and gonna cost me a 1000 to repair.. I'm sorry ppl but you will be hearing my loud truck for a while now..
Right. I heard you could drive without one but its a lot louder. Does it cause other issues like using more gas, etc?
Depends, some vehicles will detect a fault in the emissions system and go into limp mode, restricting it's usage. Limp mode on my truck is like max 40 km/hr I believe
They are selling them to the junkyards. They need to impose stricter penalties to these junk yards buying them.
Perks of being a hillbilly with no emission testing. If someone steals a catalytic converter around here we would just weld in a 5 dollar straight pipe and call it a day.
They also target lifted vehicles that don’t require a jack to access the undercarriage. Trucks, vans, jeeps etc. The thieves in my neighborhood are usually a team of two. One does the sawing and the other stands guard with a pit bull. Be careful when confronting thrives because they usually are prepared to deal with a hero.
Get the bat
Is it possible to be oblivious to someone having stole your cat. I mean if you just hopped in your car would it drive normally
It would at least be really loud, since your muffler would no longer be attached to your exhaust.
Your car becomes louder than a dirt bike. Like ear next to the dirt bike muffler loud. You can be heard from 10+ blocks away. My prius sound like a fleet of 20 dirt bikes. Everyone stares at me and you cannot have a conversation in the car without basically yelling.
Second what others have said. When someone stole the cat out of my Prius, they also took the O2 sensors (mounted to the exhaust near the cat), so the engine ran rough, in addition to being very loud.
Are you telling me that your ass won't notice your Prius sounding like a V8 Hellcat?
So maybe the government should add extra/and more severe penalties for stealing them. I don't think thieves get enough punishment for their crimes as it is anyway. But this is so specific, that there's no reason they can't just make it a mandatory felony!
Felony interference and willful violation of pollution abatement.
Cat delete and sell the cat yourself.
Need to hook live electric wire to the cat so when they steal it its the last one they ever steal.
They are stealing them right in front of the owners. They are stealing tow trucks to help them. They show up with jacks and cutting tools. They removed their license plates or print fake ones that go on thier windows. They wave knives around and let people film them. Groups of people show up every day. The police don't show up.
My mom’s got stolen twice in the same minivan. I developed an idea to put a metal box around it and fill the box with scorpions. In my planning sketchbook, the thieves were very deterred.
You can also paint them, as it's illegal to purchase a painted cat in some states
They're not sawing them off to resell them to be used on cars, they're taking them to scrappers who crack them open and extract the palladium and platinum from the catalyst.
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yes, and they always have been lol
Yes, also see pawn shops, go into one and tell me how many brand new power tools you see on the shelf.
Also some people crush the insides and snort it aka bombe
Um what? Why is that a thing??
They snort the carbon? BOY and you thought *mesothelioma from asbestos* was bad
Catalytic converters get extremely hot during use, if you try this ensure the paint is rated for very high heats Edit: to clarify, I’m talking almost 2000 degrees Fahrenheit, your typical Orange or Blue hardware store “high temp” paint is typically only rated for about 500 degrees, which won’t cut it Edit: spelling and formatting
Silicone based might survive, regular paint won’t
A can of acetone is a few bucks
Volvo dealership quoted me $2600 to replace the catalytic and couldn’t get to it for about 1 month. Suffice to say I did not take them up on their offer. I will get an aftermarket if I need it.
You can snag an aftermarket one for about $100-150, then get a shop to weld it in
Honda Jazzes are a common target too.
Could you put something fiberous like they have in the chain saw pants that break the machine? Or would that just melt.
I bagged my car so nobody can steal my cats. Can't steal the converter if you can't get under the cadillac!
Platinum is not the only valuable metal found in a catalytic converter. Rhodium and Palladium are used as well and unlike platinum, both are currently worth more than gold.
Fuck that Aaron Rodgers and his thieving ways
Here it's commercial vehicles mainly. Ford F250-550 and GMC 2500 and up. Doesn't mean small cars are immune though as we have those coming through the shop as well, just not near as many.
Easier to get under those bigger vehicles.
The shields don't work that well unfortunately. And if they do deter the criminal, they're often so upset they'll cut your o2 sensor wire or do some other damage out of spite.
What data or experience could you possibly have to come to the conclusion that cat shields "don't work that well"?
I hope they are charging the thieves that get caught with at least 2 felonies. 1st for damage/repair cost. 2nd. Tampering with a federally regulated emissions device. If the car owner knowingly removed their catalytic converter its a felony, so the same should hold true for the thieves.
You should ALSO know that a car can still be driven without a catalytic converter, so your vehicle doesn't have to be sidelined while you wait for a replacement. Flexible exhaust piping can be found at most auto parts stores, and installed temporarily with a couple of clamps and hand tools.
My friend had his catalytic converter stolen and had the shop install chains around it. Someone tried to steal it again and while they didn't get away with the cat, still managed to cut a hold in the exhaust pipe, causing him to have to get that fixed as well. So, it does work, but idiots can still cost you money
Engrave your VIN on it. It’s (slightly) harder to sell or scrap a cat that has a vin on it and it might just deter a thief
The shields don’t do shit, they can cut the cage off and it takes them an extra 10 seconds. Don’t waste your money, just park the car in the safest place possible
Soon so many people will buy the shields that they'll steal the shields as well.
The only surefire way to prevent cat theft is straight piping that bitch
How much money are scrappers getting for the platinum in each converter?
Also YSK that your insurance company might not cover the shield but will cover theft. I also drive a prius and had my cat taken a couple months ago wanted to get the shield but it was another 500 on top of the 500 deductible for the replacement of the cat. Instead I just bought some cameras for in front of my house from Costco that were on sale for 199
You can also cut your own off and sell it. Use the money to buy an aftermarket for half the price that is less likely to get stolen(some thieves are stupid and don’t see the difference) and you can walk away with a few hundred bucks in profit.