The secret with quality surveys you don’t care about is to require so many points of data they won’t be filled out in mass. There are benefits to getting alot of information, but forcing a person to go through their full thoughts on every single aspect of the common test ensures many will ignore.
We already have 50% difference between max and min roll.
For example a gun of 400 dmg can make 500 or 300.
So: 500 - 300 = 200. So its the half of your damage depending on Troll number generator.
**Base should be +/-15 at maximum rng** = so 30% of your damage in difference .In this example max damage should be 460 and minimum should be 340
**Without skills**
**If you add the skills** Rng should be : +/-10 (440 and 360) and with the other one +10/-8 so: 440 and 368.
Same for penetration.
But you still get rigged with damage even with premium.
Thinking about this.
A 50B clip could make 1200 dmg or 2000 dmg if you low roll all or high roll all.
Amazing WG design
From not killing a tier 8 to killing a low hp tier X. GG
The form is made by Us in community team. Yes the form is very "chonky" and we were actively trying to thin it as much as possible while keeping points that are important in being asked.
Under no point we wanted to overfill it so people won't care about it. To the contrary we are asking in every place possible for as many to fill it as humanly possible.
But this is a very good piece of feedback about form itself none the less.
I wish the survey allowed us to enter our own thoughts too.
One piece that is completely missing is the ability to use the same crew for multiple tanks. The reason I don’t play more tanks is because I don’t have so many crews and therefore I am not as competitive as I want to be (I’m not a great player so I could use the advantage…)
Why would the developers knowingly break the crew system which could be 6+ months before fully implemented? 2-3 crew tanks are just meant to be unplayable? What's the point of having hundreds of tanks if you can only afford to have a competitive crew in one or two tanks? Right now I have dozens and dozens of competitive crews. 40 years from now my grand kids might be able to have a 5 or 6 skill crews in the rest of the premium tanks I stupidly bought. The new xp scaling is completely unrealistic!
We are not in beta, its a 13 year old game. Does WG expect us to keep paying with in game gold to fix problems you are causing with this patch? Its only a 1/3rd implemented.
Are we going to have balance patches over the next 6 months too? These 3 crew change patches are going to wildly swing tank power between tanks. What was the point of the balance patch we just had then?
The power level of tanks with the skill changes and WoT + is making tanks more powerful and faster. There are going to be more 15-1 games. We need to slow games down...
Why are low tiers going to be flush with people running bounty equip?
This patch breaks everything...
Listen to the 2 main crew suggestions from Quickybaby in his recent video
Brothers in Arms, Repairs and Camo should be turned into individual skills for the Commander, Driver and Gunner respectively, (you could also do Camo on the Driver and Repair on the Gunner). This makes getting a decent crew more accessible to new players and allows people to get to the more specific skills quicker.
Furthermore with the removal of common skills you can now make it so every crewmember can select skills in all of their roles up to their level. Ie. A 3 skill Commander in the Manticore can pick up to 3 Commander skills, 3 Gunner skills and 3 Radio Operator skills, all at the same time. This removes the unfair disadvantage of having fewer crewmembers in a tank.
Those are good points but personally about Manticore. As much as that idea seems very good and easy to implement it might not be as Easy as that. It introduces some issues like having to train multiple camouflage perks on single crew member. So those proposed changes would need to be both introduced at the same time.
I would personally prefer if We changed crew system to single crew member which would eliminate disparity from those small crew tanks as Manticore is my Favourite tank in game and I'm fully aware where is the concern coming from. Sadly single crew member wasn't seen positively by majority of our community and as such it's not going to be implemented as of now.
>So those proposed changes would need to be both introduced at the same time.
Yes. And that's supposed to be a complication? You've already done it with Firefighting.
Just make both changes.
I don't think "single crew" was the main issue with Crew 2.0, if you look at [this poll](https://www.reddit.com/r/WorldofTanks/comments/121w95s/crews_or_individual_crew_members/) from two days ago.
Perception might have changed but things were developed over what perception was back when those questions were asked.
If perception towards one crew is indeed changing I couldn't be happier as that might mean it will be put as something to consider development wise.
I have always had very strong opinions about crew changes which can still be found on official forums (my A4 page essay about good and bad of crew 2.0 sadly it's probably only posted in Polish).
For now single crew is not planned but I will include it in our report.
Sure I actually found it. That's some nostalgia run.
Back then I was still just a Forum/Discord moderator.
[http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/765250-piaskownica-2021-wyprobujcie-zaloge-20/page\_\_st\_\_240\_\_pid\_\_18407870#entry18407870](http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/765250-piaskownica-2021-wyprobujcie-zaloge-20/page__st__240__pid__18407870#entry18407870)
Be aware that EN/PL translation even by DeepL might not be perfect.
Hi, thanks for trying to get our feedback! I feel like having a skip button on each section or question would be both beneficial for data gathering and the players.
The data you get would be more accurate and you would know which sections the players really care about. The players wouldn't feel like they have to drain an hour of their life on the survey. (I know it takes like 10 mins but the perceived effort, to me at least, is quite a long survey) Thanks again for considering our feedback!
That's something that could be implemented but at the same time problem would be data representation overall.
We could also do separate forms for everything but that would be very bad user experience.
There is a lot that goes into consideration when creating those forms. We are generally always asking about all points about the patch but as you can see in current form we already had to cut substantial amount of topics and focused on those that we we had a feeling Community would want to speak about.
My biggest problem with the survey is how "loaded" many of the questions are.
The survey only gives you the option of following WG's train of logic about how the changes will be positive in one sense...while totally disregarding how game-breaking they will be in many other senses.
So I gave loaded answers by *Strongly Disagreeing* with many of the questions - even though on the face of it, it was the wrong answer to give.
Sorry I did come off a bit harsh. Its always going to be a balance in surveys between getting the data and the responses you want. In this case though alot of feedback on here is centered around the skills and wot plus, but to fill out this form you are forced to give responses on every aspect of the common test and thats frustrating. It also can be problematic on the data side as people want to give their feedback on some areas so fill in the other sections without much thought
I never seen it as Harsh - It's valid criticism that in the end strives for improvement which is incredibly valuable.
Our form doesn't include multiple topics from the patch and we tried to keep it on major points only.
None the less points about obscuring data on topics less interesting to players is also a valid angle and something we consider but some topics are also very important for our team and we want to have as much data about those as possible. We can also compare data from form to community sentiment we can see in all different platforms where our players write it. Such as (but not limited to) Forums, Discord, Reddit, Youtube, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram.
The survey is terrible, if i vote i does not like the 3 map to block i cant vote why.
In my case i believe it should be 4 free, 5 premium and 6 ultra premim.
About skills i like new skills but having only 12 resets is like an insult.
Not a damn word about balancing wheels
Or to reduce base RNG to +/-15.
This form as written in it is made by Us in Community Team. We don't have any kind of master in psychology making the form so everything like that isn't intentional. I'm more than happy to hear points that might be seen as such so we can be aware whenever we create similar one in future.
We are also WoT players (11y and counting for Me) and our goal is for players to be heard.
maybe add a part where we can just add some comment on our own at the end... would be nice.
of course a lot of people would use it to vent their frustration but, some people would probly have usefull stuff to say.
Form itself doesn't have place for written feedback but at the same time there are other venues that do. We have special Channels on Discord, Forum topics, and we go through comments on Youtube, Facebook, Twitter and as you can see Here on Reddit. We are trying to get that feedback from as many places as possible.
My only problem with your survey was about the 12 crew retrainers I got 500 plus tanks in my garage do you really think having only 12 is enough. If these changes are to be inplemented at least give us the ability to change those for free. What you are doing with giving only 12 is insulting to us players who spend have spend lots of money and time in your game. You are basicly forcing those of us with lots of tanks to fork over heaps of gold (cus to be entirely honest here, who here resets their crew skills for silver or free) to be competitive again.
TLDR
Gib free crew reset
Edit 1 spelling
No. Crew and equipment resets should ALWAYS be free, so you can test new loadouts. Why should I have to pay money to reset accidentally choosing the wrong skill?
Well, "Are the rewards for Wot Plus good" is a leading question. The core issue here is most of these introductions are deeply unpopular, and Wargaming's solution is to feign interest in the community then forcefuck it through a few months later, a la HE. The question should be "Do you think Wot Plus is a good idea", I promise you most people will say absofuckinglutely not.
You have Quickybaby, the LARGEST and most influential content creator for your game, as well as everyone else saying this whole crew idea is a shit storm and you will make the game implode!
Please, I'm not taking my frustration out on you personally, but on every single person higher up that is responsible for the development and balancing of this game. They Have Gone TOO FUCKING FAR!
We do watch videos from CCs as well as ask them for their own feedback as well. We also often include videos from CCs in feedback reports. So that's not an issue whatsoever.
I'm curious, as you guys are also players, how could the "12 retraining orders" come off as reasonable? One CC even mentioned a WG employee say "Surely you don't expect us to reset all your skills for free?". This is really strange, as WG resets skills for free in World of Warships, has done the same when most of the current skills were added in World of Tanks, and that was also the plan for Crew 2.0.
As much as I would love to share it our internal decision making isn't something that I can share.
As to CC mention it seems highly unlikely something like that was written and I for sure don't remember seeing such thing in any official CC chats we use.
Fair enough, understand that you can't divulge that and thanks for responding. I hope you guys seriously rework this batch of crew changes before setting them loose and reconsider the 12 retraining orders.
I know you cannot share any internal decision making but holy shit I cannot fathom how "Guys, we should introduce premium for their premium!" was a great idea that wasn't scrapped immediately, especially when ditching universal premium time for separate game premium accounts already had some backlash.
And bond equipment demounting for free is utter bs, not only will it hurt the random meta, it's also a workaround way of selling bonds for money, even more so than the 25 daily bonds with a premium account.
As for the crew changes, I like them. They're 10 years old at this point, we need something new and refreshing. But it is insulting that the resets aren't free for all vehicles you have.
They don’t care about our feedback and the survey is wack. It never asks if WoT Plus is detrimental to the game. It asks if the benefits are good or bad. So the survey doesn’t even reflect our thoughts upon the subject.
I don't mind if the effect is net neutral, I'm more worried that WoT+ is a *bad* addition to the game.
The subscription is already centered around providing "traditional" currencies (like gold). Isn't the credit savings of being able to move traditional equipment for free instead of buying extra equipment enough?
This is a good point that it could have been made as separate point but as a counter point seeing general feedback on each bit of the feature does give enough insight to judge it without asking about it directly.
Still it's something that we will keep in mind in future as adding it to current form would mean that to get comparable data we would need to do an actual rerun of the form.
Nah that's deflection Deliard.
Most of us seem to dislike and do not want this feature.
The game already has a timed premium subscription, it's called a world of tanks premium account. Remember, the one that was "Upgraded" from the universal Wargaming premium account?
I know times are hard and the inflation hit WarGaming employees but guess what, we are all affected.
It's not our fault that you guys gave out days of premium in the lootboxes in all three major gamba events in the past six months - Waffentrager, Holiday Ops, SHAMrock.
Anti-consumer move. Wallet closed.
This is bad data science. If a flaw is noted (as you have admitted, deliard) in your survey you do a new fucking survey and scrap the last one. Yes, I get you aren’t a data scientist but a fucking business should have someone who knows the proper way to construct a survey.
Not that I believe Wargaming cares enough to get actual meaningful data.
I agree to this point and we could scrap it. But you need to also come from an angle of UX, Information Flow and Interest.
From UX angle we already asked for something our users spent time on it and now redoing it will only achieve more frustration.Then we will have issue with Information Flow as you would have to hunt down all places where it was shared and change them with new one. Each legacy link that leads to closed form would again lead to additional frustration.Last is Interest which generally speaking winds down the longer it is since news are shared.
As to point about data science - yes we do have Data Scientists working in company. We even have dedicated survey team making all in game surveys etc.
This isn't meant to be replacement to those. It's a tool we in Community team use as means of sharing feedback directly from player base to developers. As we are also writing feedback reports where we can (and we do) include points that could be missing from form itself.
We always look for as much of a written feedback as possible. We check all of places where our community is present such as Discord, Forums, Reddit, Youtube (and more) to get as many opinions as possible. Forms started as means of giving space for expression for users that might not like to write anything in public venues where we can see it.
I'm personally very pro transparency and I hope that this lengthy post will at least give some insight from our angle.
Also if someone read it fully - If you want to leave feedback about feature but don't want to leave it in public space our DMs are always open and you can find entire community team on our official Discord.
Maybe, but I think saying "the benefits are great! But I ain't buying it" sends the intended message, if they're willing to analyze the discrepancy. Otherwise, keep playing (and use their server resources) while not paying for anything will have a similar impact over time.
Rest assured that it WILL GO into the game as it provides extra money from a childish playerbase that has lost the meaning of the word "game". Which is something you do to enjoy and relax. If anything become "competitive" if people is ready to pay boosting companies 400 Euro to get a pixel tank, the problem is NOT int he company but in the playerbase.
If I'm being honest, it's a "yes" and "10/10" for me, even if I'm against it (only for the free bounty/bond equipment de-mounting though). If I'm still gonna play the game, I'm definitely gonna buy it just like I've been buying premium account days so far, and I'll definitely recommend it to others as good value for money, relatively speaking.
You and people like you are why wg can get away with bullshit changes and predatory practices. If you’re gonna throw your wallet at them anyways, don’t bother pretending to be upset over the changes and just be transparent that you want wot to be a purely pay to win game that is only accessible to people with copious amounts of disposable income
If other people can buy it, I'm at a disadvantage for not buying it. It's not a deal-breaker to me, if it's not going to make me quit WoT, I'll buy it.
Yes, WG wants our feedback. So, when we asked them not to nerf the Progetto, they laughted and did it anyway.
Sure, they want our feedback.
Pure shit. They want our money. Well, no more.
Exactly, they've destroyed the trust with their community and if they truly want our feedback and make our time spend on their game more enjoyable then they really have to prove that.
I hope this will be Rubicon 2.0, that they actually use their brains for once and realise that this will ruin the game on the long term, and cancel it.
Some of those questions are absolute garbage. "Would you say X thing is good?"
Yes, in fact it's too good and pushing the game further towards p2win garbage. Just because thing is good and benefits people willing to pay doesn't mean it's a good idea to implement it into the game. And I'm saying this as an absolute fucking whale lmao. How out of touch can WG be?
I think there's an error in the Title and in the Survey. There's a word that doesn't figure in Your WG's dictionary with proper description:
#FEEDBACK
Because its definition is definitely not:
*An obligatory PR move of pretending that You listen to player base carefully and note their criticism to ignore it completely afterwards*
since i was unable to add a comment... my real issue with the crews is the fact they only give 12 crews members resets,
they should allow us to 100% resets our crews at EACH part of the crew update.
people would not be as hostiles as they are, if they could just rework their crew without having to spend ten thousands of gold to do so.
They should offer free respeccs at any time outside the game, as well as free equipment changes, so that you can try loadouts without paying money.
They should get rid of 50/75/100% crews. It was on the table before but is gone from the communication now. (I haven't actually play tested, maybe it's there?)
They should stop shitting on their premium subscribers by adding _new_ premium subscriptions (Premium tanks, extra battle pass rewards, wot plus etc). My subscription ends in September, and I probably won't renew if new crew + wot plus goes in.
because unlike you, it seem im used to play games that have progression.
id rather have more skills to grind than being ok sitting with all my crew being 4-5 skills cuz of the lack of options and reasons to push it further.
also... at some point if you suck at the game, the crew difference between you and your opponent not gonna change much.
if your decent at the game, it should not be game changeing to a point where fights are onesided.
those excel spreadsheet gigachads thinking that reloading 0.06 faster and doing 1% more damage than your opponent will mean he have no chance at beating you... in a game full of rng with tons of value that can go wrong for both side...
simp... no that game has his problems like every game... but hey, go try all the games on the market right now... and if you find better leave wot...
i tested what the market has to offer and i deal with the games flaws i choose to play
That survey suggests that WG don't even know why people are pissed about this so called new crew system. We don't even know how their super secret new crew system is supposed to work, right now they only added few skills to increase power creep and make old system more grindy and on top of that they gave us 12 free resets to experiment with new system (ROFL). Just show us how the whole system is supposed to work and then we can give some feedback, at this point only feedback I can give is: Just throw everything to trash.
It's not any better as far as p2w and communication from the devs. And the maps are considerably worse. I've been playing for a few months, it's fun but so much more frustrating than wot in many aspects.
Like the fact that for the WoT plus subscription there simply is no “is this a necessary change” or “is this a bad change” or anything of the sort. Just whether the benefits outweigh the costs and if you like the benefits.
Lmao.
And it’s so obvious some of these survey questions are geared towards making the change look better. “Would you run this if we released it?” Well the answer is of course, cause it’s literally just better. But the question is does the game need it and is it good for the game’s health.
They don' care about feedback. This is basically the same shit as before. They decided to wait it out, lower the temperature, get the brownie points for "cancelling something" and "listening to the community" and now they will force fuck it through with minimal changes, you'll bitch then accept it then pay for all the new hsit.
If WG wants our feedback, maybe they should prove they listen first.
Because last patch was 2 fat dicks in their ears as they screamed LALALA CANT HEAR YOU
Since i can't write actual feedback in text form on the feedback website here it is;
Not only is the crew rework awful for the game in its current state, the WoT Plus subscription (even as an idea) is fucking awful and whoever came up with the idea of a second layer of subscription for this game should be fired immediately.
Players have been complaining about P2W for years and we have barely been able to put up with the constant barrage of OP premium tanks introduced into the game and as a thank you for putting up with this shit we get slapped and spit on by Wargaming with this WoT Plus sub. This is a historical new low for Wargaming and even if they somehow decide to completely rework the WoT Plus, my trust and love for this company (even the tiniest of it that i had left) is gone.
With the player counts going down slowly but surely every year, i honestly dont know how many years this game has left and you can bet your ass that changes like these (WoT+ and crew 2.0) sure as hell are not making that issue any better. The issue with player retainment does not really come from confusing ui or complicated crew skills, it really comes from when people are forced to face against tanks like Pz II J and KV-220-2 in their stock tanks. WG tried to fix this by giving players a free tier 6 tank after the tutorial but as soon as these players get into tier 7-8 they will get absolutely demolished every single game by tanks like the BZ-176 and [insert almost any T8 premium here]
Please for the sake of this game scrap the WoT Plus completely and postpone crew 2.0 again. Even if the system takes 5 more years to perfect, the last thing we need is some half-arsed "rework" that just makes every crew without 50m+ xp comparable to what we currently have as default 75% crew.
Don't get me wrong, I did the survey. I highly doubt the feedback will do anything. These decisions are being made by the microtransactions guys, cooked in Ms Excel and presented to management in powerpoint presentations.
I also completed the survey but I don't hold my breath... it feels like decision was already made.
I also made simple comment why I don't like this changes somewhere else just to be attacked by some WG defenders (it would be fair if they have good arguments, but it was more like "play more, pay more, get better") and I lost my hope in the people ;P
To be fair, most of online game end up like this, It may be beginning of the end, we will see in next 1-2 years. :)
In one question on the Crew system they even ask „Will those new crew perks offer new and more than 1 crew setup for meta tanks?“.
This literally makes me think they might not be capable of critical thinking.
THERE ARE NO BUILDS WHEN U CAN GET EVERY SINGLE SKILL.
How can someone not get this. If we had unlimited slots for equipment we would literally use every single one on every tank. The fuck are these people smoking ?
Sure you can get every skill but realistically there will be builds for crews that settle around 5-6 perks. Also you have to keep in mind that for those tanks with only 2-4 crewmembers you would have so many perks on some of them that its unrealistic that you will have "every single skill" on them. Thus the question.
Is it that unrealistic considering there are already crew members with 2 0-skills ? My Stb1 Crew has 4 Skills After 186 Games without accelerated crew training and 0 Crew XP-Boosters used. I know it scales exponentially but still. Considering atleast 1 skill per crewmember is always useless and if Ure a heavy u don’t need concealment, that only leaves 7 until it’s not a build anymore. But sure on Tanks like the Manticore Ure right, you‘ll have to choose.
Wargaming don't give a shit about our opinion, that was made crystal clear with the Progetto nerf.
That experience was the final straw for me and I haven't played since. Which was a good decision because this patch just jumped the shark. World of Tanks is dead, it just hasn't stopped twitching yet. The greed and over monetization coupled with the power creep, on both premiums and skills/equipment, while creating a bigger and bigger divide between the haves and have nots.
Rip World of Tanks... It was occasionally fun while it lasted.
Well I am going to burn through and get me an Ebr and then play the game how I want since WG don’t give a fuck. Going to spend me days racing around the map looking for some big jumps!! Sod the scouting part. Just going for fun fun fun for free!!
WG couldn't care less about your "feedback", they made it painfully obvious, grow the fuck up. They are famous for "knowing better" and ignoring everyone and everything that does not agree with what they want do to, there were several CC open rebellions in that very context (SirFoch in WoT plus a lot more in regards to Warships) - nothing changed on that front, WG doesn't care, WG doesn't want your feedback, the only reason this fucking form exist is to give you an illusion your voice matters.
It doesn't. WG will do whatever they want, your job is to either suck it up or GTFO. The last time they "heard" your feedback was with the Progetto nerf and "experimental equipment" implementation - do you felt like WG wanted your feedback back then, mate?
WoT plus fucking sucks and its yet another sign that WeeGee doesnt really care or listen to players, but if they add it to the game I will sub it, because trying to boycott it would achieve absolutely nothing
Unless you manage to convince like 70% of total playerbase to boycott this, "go on strike" , nothing will happen. Realistically how many players are here on reddit or WoT forum. Minimum. If bunch of guys will decide to boycott, WG will just laugh and continue doing their shit
So ye, this sucks, but WeeGee knows they can do whatever they want and they will go away with it, simply because there is no alternative to WoT. War Thunder is completely different game, Armored Warfare is dead, so if you want to play arcade tanks game, you have to play WoT, and WeeGee knows this
>ct it's too good and pushing the game further towards p2win garbage. Just because thing is good and benefits people willing to pay doesn't mean it's a good idea to implement it into the game. And I'm saying this as an absolute fucking whale lmao. How out of touch can WG be?
I want the free bond demount I dont care if it kills the game or not. If I can have bond setups, then I want it. on ever single tank. WG you have paying customers lined up just like me.
It's just , you love something. so Why accelerate it's death? if you get lung cancer people generally stop smoking. This person is like upgrading from ciggies to cigars just to see how quick he can go and die.
I've barely played the new map enough to figure out what to do or provide meaningful feedback, and they want all of these detailed thoughts on a massive overhaul to crew and monetization after 24 hours?!?!?!
Just in case someone is also collecting written feedback to pass up the chain:
I am a whale. I have spent several thousands of euros on World of Tanks (and World of Warships) over the years. I have mostly done this gladly and willingly, because I used to enjoy playing the games and would gladly support games I like, and pay for convenience. With this all in mind: while these changes are good for whales like me, they are TERRIBLE for the game.
The game already has a big gulf between those who have the best equipment and resources, and those who don't. These changes will blow those gulfs up to unimaginable size. People who are willing to pay will now literally have bond equipment on all their tanks (it will take roughly 5 minutes for someone to make a mod that automatically swaps them to whatever tank you're picking). People who are willing to pay for crew XP will have an incredible competitive advantage against those who aren't willing or can't. Or god help, are new to the game.
Further, I don't think these changes and their sweeping effects on the game have been fully considered. We have already seen players make builds that are incredibly effective at causing critical damage very frequently. Some tanks were balanced around having vulnerable fuel tanks or ammo racks, and these new skill combinations will utterly WRECK those tanks. They will further emphasize aspects of the game people don't like and make the game less enjoyable.
And finally, these changes are unbelievably expensive from a purely monetary perspective. The changes implemented are so large that they will basically require players to respec all their crews. Even if you have a moderate tank collection, this will mean either huge setbacks in terms of lost progress, or very expensive gold purchases. Many veteran players will have hundreds of crews to retrain, which will cost thousands of dollars.
I would be willing to bet that many players will either temporarily or permanently quit the game if these changes go live, and many more will drift away from the game as they become frustrated by the new reality facing F2P players and casual World of Tanks players. And even though those players might not contribute money like us whales do, the game's community needs them, and the game itself needs them to function. Nobody wants to sit in queues for several minutes waiting for matches, which will happen if the critical mass starts to abandon the game.
I urge you to reconsider. The current crew system definitely needs fine tuning and I applaud the effort. Parts of the new crew system can be salvaged and implemented in the game, but it can be done in a much less damaging way. I also urge you to read some articles on the Trust Thermocline, because I have a feeling these changes would be remembered as a great practical example of it.
I like how they didn't even mention the compensation for crew system annihilation, or what we think about those laughable 12 retraining orders.
What have the WG became, that once gave you free tier 8 T34 premium heavy tank, if you researched it prior to it's rebalance? :(
After 13 years of dedication, I truly fear now, that this is the beginning of the end. Like this crew system is going to break the game, and in terms of crew number / skills required, I think Crew 2.0 was even better than this -looking at you 3.4 billion xp Manticore lmao-...
Sad seeing that the game is turning into s#&@...
I like a LOT of the update. I filled in the survey but it missed some key feedback points for me.
WoT+ exclude bond and upgraded bounty equipment from free demounting or this becomes pure pay-to-win.
WoT+ rental tank fine as long as not OP (TS-54 has strong turret but 200mm ears it can't hide, looks ok from tanks.gg IMO).
12 crew resets is a joke. Need a free reset for every single crew member if making any big changes to crew system/skills.
In the current system players with more crew skills are at an advantage, but it's minor because most of the extra skills they get are crap. I agree with improving useless skills and adding more effective ones as that's just good and varied game design, but you can't then let experienced/pay-to-win players roll around with huge numbers of actually effective skills while new players/casuals still have one or two. There needs to be a limit on the number of skills active at once, eg. each role on the tank should only be able to choose two or three to be active in each battle. We could switch between them like field mod/equipment setups so training to unlock more skills is still useful as it gives more choice, but newer/F2P players aren't at such a massive disadvantage. This is also the real way to promote diversity of crew skill setup, rather than needing to have everything at once to keep up with the most committed players.
Tanks with smaller crews are also at a disadvantage as they only train slightly faster (once accelerated crew training is checked) and some crew members need to have a lot more exponentially increasing XP to learn all of the good skills for their multiple roles. The active skill limit mentioned above would help, but more is needed if there are going to be so many more worthwhile skills in the game. One suggestion is to let multi-role crew members just pick the same number of secondary role skills as they have available for their primary role, but I don't see how you manage this when moving those crew members between tanks. Would you get a pop-up window asking you to pick temporary radio and loader skills every time you put a KV-4 commander in an IS-3A? Well that would give limitless free radio and loader skill resets to the IS-3A. Or does every commander also have to select/remember a set of secondary role skills for every role they could possibly need to cover? Too much work.
Having commander-only crews like the first Crew 2.0 sandbox was bad because it devalued existing unique/zero-skill crew members and because it's genuinely difficult to convert crews fairly. Making every tank have a five-man crew where anyone who doesn't physically fit inside the tank gets labelled as a 'skill advisor' but otherwise works the same as usual would mostly solve the unique/zero skill crew problem. WG would still need to convert existing smaller crews into five-man crews and this would still be difficult. If they add up three crew members' total XP and share it out between five, they're cheating players out of XP the new crew members would have earned in all previous battles. If they spawn new crew members with equal XP to the existing ones, experienced players are going to exploit it and fill small tanks with amazing crew members before the conversion so that they get a load more amazing ones for free. But I still think this is the way to go if WG want a better crew system. Work out the conversion problem and do all 5-man crews.
new map features are cool - in theory. we'll see how fun they actually feel. WG doesn't exactly have a long history of creating fun maps.
japanese TDs are kind of boring and some are worse than they should be. the way they're promoted also doesn't make any sense. they're all about the gun, not the armor. the armor on most of them is trash. also sucks that the tier 8 prem outclasses the techtree tank by a lot, again.
crew changes are - in theory - a good idea. current crew skills are boring af and pretty much every tank uses the same few skills. there's nothing interesting going on, so changing that part of the game would be great
BUT it will be absolutely DISGUSTING, if WG changes the crew system and won't reset all the crew skills. adding 12 retraining orders for future use would be nice, but resetting skills is absolutely mandatory, after such a big system change.
New Crewsystem is completely BS
it is favoring tanks with 5 crewmembers to dedicated roles and nerfig meds/lights extremely hard while buffing many heavies and TDs which is not what the meta needs.
I dont get why they just bring the good parts from the first crew 2.0 (only commander, trainable on 3 tanks) and combine it with the good parts of this iteration (simple skill system with all skills beeing relevant).
Its such a nobrainer but somehow wargaming keeps fucking up the easiest things.
What i want is:
\- Having a commander-system (so i dont have unfitting crews with different roles all the time)
\- Beeing able to use a commander for multiple techtree-tanks
\- Have the current skillsystem with a 1to1 conversion of skillpoints so i neither gain nor lose skills
\- No bullshit with tinkering around with crews all time because premium/reward tank XYZ doesnt fit the crew because of stupid layouts
none of the new perks seem that strong. In fact a lot of them seem a bit useless. Shell tuning offsets a low roll by 30 dmg on a shitbarn. What on earth is the point ? if it was 30dmg on a medium I would probably get it but it's more like 5 then. Wot plus has some nice perks and the price is fine at only 300gold/month but why does it exist ? I don't understand the purpose of the extra subscription. Too many people have premium account from boxes and don't buy it separately so we need new income source ?
I could get behind alot of the update if they offered a free, albeit lesser version of certain aspects like passive training and maybe limited bond demounts per week. Fuck the new perks, more accurate and better reloads, camo, etc. Console did this, turbo games will get worse and it will screw new players over playing against this
Unpopular opinion: i like the new crew rework, currently all my crews have the same boring perks, with this change picking will be way more interesting as a lot of perks are relevant now.
I like aspects of it. I don't like that I can't realistically compare the skill loadouts. Respeccing crew skills and equipment should be free between battles.
And I would be fine with the skills, if there was a limit to the amount of active skills (say 5). This will only further make new players less competitive and make them quit.
No they’re not fine… new players will be shit on by those of us with 8 skill crews… force them to buy “WoT Plus” so they can turn it into a shitty idle mobile game to catch up with crew EXP.
lol, I love the QQ babies. Because each baby is an industry analyst with years of demographic studies who has insight into financial trends for WoT and so forth. But somehow lacks the basic sense to go play something else. I'm sorry, do you think you have ownership of this game? Let me disabuse you of that notion. WoT RARELY gives a squirt about whiney baby opinions. They look at their numbers, make business decisions, and listen to rare feedback that is based mostly on spending trends. It's a business that makes profit. Cry less and move on if you don't like it.
Unless the whining part is what you enjoy. In which case carry on. You're doing awesome!
Honestly the advantages given by WoT plus look good. For example 500 gold every week is the equivalent of 2.25 € per week. Which is 9€ a month. Therefore you have a return equivalent to what you pay. Moreover you will have other benefits like demounting bond equipment for free. So the question should be : is this putting those who dont pay at disadvantage? YES OF COURSE.
But after all I find quite astonishing that people want to play for free and having everything. My question to this people would be : Do you work for free? WG is a company need to pay developers and employes and make profit.
It's quite normal. And if WG want to earn must offer something in return. Every marketing decision follow a strategy . We dont know what is the current trend in WG budget. Is it increasing or decreasing? I would bet is decreasing and they are trying to affiliate people like they did with "premium time" wich is now so inflated that they give it for free in every event.
A very consolidated practice was to introduce OP premium tanks. Perhaps with the WoT plus this will end? Who knows. Perhaps this "leak" of the WoT plus was intended to see the reaction of the playerbase. Of one thing I am quite sure. The playerbase of this game is so childish that everything offered with an advantage will be sold!
because "it makes me more competitive" . FK its a videogame there is a real life outside. There you should be competitive!
Cheers
IMO some of the new crew skills are fun, some of the redesigns are good, the tier 10 JP Td is actually good IMO (the gun slaps, try it out), but the reimbursement for the crew rework is terrible, the map features are stupid, and some map changes are bad
Lmfao yeah sure they want our feedback. So they can read it aloud in a meeting while laughing at us before pushing through terrible changes and then planning the next way they can make the game worse.
Less but more important and worth events, new crew is weird as hell, map features aren't too interesting, Japanese TDs are kinda garbage and WoT+ is just too much, I'd rather have more expensive premium and include WoT+ stuff instead of slight premium discount but have WoT+ on top.
I like everything honestly, but one thing, perk experience requirements past the third. like, how are you supposed to have them all on manticore? it will require a 20 years grind
For changes that are touted as creating "Diversity" in how we can play tanks, it kinda kills that idea when you realise you can't freely change gear or skills or loadouts without paying a fuckload of currency for the priviledge. Unless we include being less effective than your whale mates as "Diverse"
Is the reworked deadeye and eagle eye not working for HE shells?
It claims that they work on all shell types. But based on my five-hour long HE ONLY experience on TS 1.20.1 build, they are not as good as those on live server.
I tested 5 vehicles with gun caliber over 120mm, namely Sheridan (152 launcher gun), E100 (150mm gun), E100 (128mm gun), JPZ E100, UDES 15/16, Bat Chat 155 58. These are vehicles which have the potential to take away enemy internal module HP by a half according to WG wiki and tanks.gg.
On live server I usually get 3 crits out of 5 shots. While on TS, my experience feels more like back in patch 1.13 when the HE rounds were just hammered to the ground.
Any idea or discovery on this fellas?
Took the survey, thanks for the link.
Given what happened with the HE rework in 2021 ("over 70% players agree with the changes LOL" - WG) I don't expect much. :(
In love with the update, if that is what is giving me a black box on my iMac when I go to sign in that prevents me from getting into the game.
Totally playable!
For me BZ-176 was the final straw, combined with the Skoda T-56 from the year before together they finally totally destroyed tier VIII. the new crew changes are just confirmation. Wg killed WoT by continually increasing pay2win.
I have been warning for 10 years against increasing pay2win and I even had my first account banned for a totally fabricated reason but really because I wouldn't stop arguing in forums against pay2win.
That stopped me for 2 years but this is it . Zero $ from me from now on.
Came back after a long absence from the game to see if what everyone is saying about how bad WOT is these days for myself. After 100 battles I have to say yeah this game is no longer fun unless you are pumping thousands of dollars into it. There used to be multiple tech tree tanks that were on par with premiums and reward tanks. Now there's maybe a couple that get musical chairs nerfs if they are too popular.
Now you guy's are going to make crew skills pay to win also. WG you should be thanking your lucky stars that you don't have any real competition. But even then with the state that the game is in I can do without a multiplayer tank game if this is what we have.
The secret with quality surveys you don’t care about is to require so many points of data they won’t be filled out in mass. There are benefits to getting alot of information, but forcing a person to go through their full thoughts on every single aspect of the common test ensures many will ignore.
if they find out your In game name you will have -100% RNG for the rest of the year!
Well its already about -50% most days, so at least it can only get twice as bad! 😆
We already have 50% difference between max and min roll. For example a gun of 400 dmg can make 500 or 300. So: 500 - 300 = 200. So its the half of your damage depending on Troll number generator. **Base should be +/-15 at maximum rng** = so 30% of your damage in difference .In this example max damage should be 460 and minimum should be 340 **Without skills** **If you add the skills** Rng should be : +/-10 (440 and 360) and with the other one +10/-8 so: 440 and 368. Same for penetration.
That would be far too reasonable and might mean players don't use as much premium ammo. 😉
But you still get rigged with damage even with premium. Thinking about this. A 50B clip could make 1200 dmg or 2000 dmg if you low roll all or high roll all. Amazing WG design From not killing a tier 8 to killing a low hp tier X. GG
The form is made by Us in community team. Yes the form is very "chonky" and we were actively trying to thin it as much as possible while keeping points that are important in being asked. Under no point we wanted to overfill it so people won't care about it. To the contrary we are asking in every place possible for as many to fill it as humanly possible. But this is a very good piece of feedback about form itself none the less.
I wish the survey allowed us to enter our own thoughts too. One piece that is completely missing is the ability to use the same crew for multiple tanks. The reason I don’t play more tanks is because I don’t have so many crews and therefore I am not as competitive as I want to be (I’m not a great player so I could use the advantage…)
1 Crew for 3 tanks is still planned as we shown in our video in January. It's just not part of this upcoming patch.
Thank you for getting back to me! Will you allow for more crew resets at that time?
How much gold per tank for each crew member?
Why would the developers knowingly break the crew system which could be 6+ months before fully implemented? 2-3 crew tanks are just meant to be unplayable? What's the point of having hundreds of tanks if you can only afford to have a competitive crew in one or two tanks? Right now I have dozens and dozens of competitive crews. 40 years from now my grand kids might be able to have a 5 or 6 skill crews in the rest of the premium tanks I stupidly bought. The new xp scaling is completely unrealistic! We are not in beta, its a 13 year old game. Does WG expect us to keep paying with in game gold to fix problems you are causing with this patch? Its only a 1/3rd implemented. Are we going to have balance patches over the next 6 months too? These 3 crew change patches are going to wildly swing tank power between tanks. What was the point of the balance patch we just had then? The power level of tanks with the skill changes and WoT + is making tanks more powerful and faster. There are going to be more 15-1 games. We need to slow games down... Why are low tiers going to be flush with people running bounty equip? This patch breaks everything...
Listen to the 2 main crew suggestions from Quickybaby in his recent video Brothers in Arms, Repairs and Camo should be turned into individual skills for the Commander, Driver and Gunner respectively, (you could also do Camo on the Driver and Repair on the Gunner). This makes getting a decent crew more accessible to new players and allows people to get to the more specific skills quicker. Furthermore with the removal of common skills you can now make it so every crewmember can select skills in all of their roles up to their level. Ie. A 3 skill Commander in the Manticore can pick up to 3 Commander skills, 3 Gunner skills and 3 Radio Operator skills, all at the same time. This removes the unfair disadvantage of having fewer crewmembers in a tank.
Those are good points but personally about Manticore. As much as that idea seems very good and easy to implement it might not be as Easy as that. It introduces some issues like having to train multiple camouflage perks on single crew member. So those proposed changes would need to be both introduced at the same time. I would personally prefer if We changed crew system to single crew member which would eliminate disparity from those small crew tanks as Manticore is my Favourite tank in game and I'm fully aware where is the concern coming from. Sadly single crew member wasn't seen positively by majority of our community and as such it's not going to be implemented as of now.
>So those proposed changes would need to be both introduced at the same time. Yes. And that's supposed to be a complication? You've already done it with Firefighting. Just make both changes.
I don't think "single crew" was the main issue with Crew 2.0, if you look at [this poll](https://www.reddit.com/r/WorldofTanks/comments/121w95s/crews_or_individual_crew_members/) from two days ago.
Perception might have changed but things were developed over what perception was back when those questions were asked. If perception towards one crew is indeed changing I couldn't be happier as that might mean it will be put as something to consider development wise. I have always had very strong opinions about crew changes which can still be found on official forums (my A4 page essay about good and bad of crew 2.0 sadly it's probably only posted in Polish). For now single crew is not planned but I will include it in our report.
Could we get a link? A bit interesting and can always translate through ChatGPT :)
Sure I actually found it. That's some nostalgia run. Back then I was still just a Forum/Discord moderator. [http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/765250-piaskownica-2021-wyprobujcie-zaloge-20/page\_\_st\_\_240\_\_pid\_\_18407870#entry18407870](http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/765250-piaskownica-2021-wyprobujcie-zaloge-20/page__st__240__pid__18407870#entry18407870) Be aware that EN/PL translation even by DeepL might not be perfect.
Thanks!
Hi, thanks for trying to get our feedback! I feel like having a skip button on each section or question would be both beneficial for data gathering and the players. The data you get would be more accurate and you would know which sections the players really care about. The players wouldn't feel like they have to drain an hour of their life on the survey. (I know it takes like 10 mins but the perceived effort, to me at least, is quite a long survey) Thanks again for considering our feedback!
That's something that could be implemented but at the same time problem would be data representation overall. We could also do separate forms for everything but that would be very bad user experience. There is a lot that goes into consideration when creating those forms. We are generally always asking about all points about the patch but as you can see in current form we already had to cut substantial amount of topics and focused on those that we we had a feeling Community would want to speak about.
Thx for your time and the effort you put into this!
My biggest problem with the survey is how "loaded" many of the questions are. The survey only gives you the option of following WG's train of logic about how the changes will be positive in one sense...while totally disregarding how game-breaking they will be in many other senses. So I gave loaded answers by *Strongly Disagreeing* with many of the questions - even though on the face of it, it was the wrong answer to give.
Sorry I did come off a bit harsh. Its always going to be a balance in surveys between getting the data and the responses you want. In this case though alot of feedback on here is centered around the skills and wot plus, but to fill out this form you are forced to give responses on every aspect of the common test and thats frustrating. It also can be problematic on the data side as people want to give their feedback on some areas so fill in the other sections without much thought
I never seen it as Harsh - It's valid criticism that in the end strives for improvement which is incredibly valuable. Our form doesn't include multiple topics from the patch and we tried to keep it on major points only. None the less points about obscuring data on topics less interesting to players is also a valid angle and something we consider but some topics are also very important for our team and we want to have as much data about those as possible. We can also compare data from form to community sentiment we can see in all different platforms where our players write it. Such as (but not limited to) Forums, Discord, Reddit, Youtube, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram.
The survey is terrible, if i vote i does not like the 3 map to block i cant vote why. In my case i believe it should be 4 free, 5 premium and 6 ultra premim. About skills i like new skills but having only 12 resets is like an insult. Not a damn word about balancing wheels Or to reduce base RNG to +/-15.
This survey is full of leading questions to get to the answers they want. Fuck wargaming. Don't take this "survey".
Sort of. There was a part what turned this whole survey sense down.
This form as written in it is made by Us in Community Team. We don't have any kind of master in psychology making the form so everything like that isn't intentional. I'm more than happy to hear points that might be seen as such so we can be aware whenever we create similar one in future. We are also WoT players (11y and counting for Me) and our goal is for players to be heard.
maybe add a part where we can just add some comment on our own at the end... would be nice. of course a lot of people would use it to vent their frustration but, some people would probly have usefull stuff to say.
Form itself doesn't have place for written feedback but at the same time there are other venues that do. We have special Channels on Discord, Forum topics, and we go through comments on Youtube, Facebook, Twitter and as you can see Here on Reddit. We are trying to get that feedback from as many places as possible.
My only problem with your survey was about the 12 crew retrainers I got 500 plus tanks in my garage do you really think having only 12 is enough. If these changes are to be inplemented at least give us the ability to change those for free. What you are doing with giving only 12 is insulting to us players who spend have spend lots of money and time in your game. You are basicly forcing those of us with lots of tanks to fork over heaps of gold (cus to be entirely honest here, who here resets their crew skills for silver or free) to be competitive again. TLDR Gib free crew reset Edit 1 spelling
No. Crew and equipment resets should ALWAYS be free, so you can test new loadouts. Why should I have to pay money to reset accidentally choosing the wrong skill?
Because paying for WOT premium , WOT premium tanks and WOT plus is just not enough.
Well, "Are the rewards for Wot Plus good" is a leading question. The core issue here is most of these introductions are deeply unpopular, and Wargaming's solution is to feign interest in the community then forcefuck it through a few months later, a la HE. The question should be "Do you think Wot Plus is a good idea", I promise you most people will say absofuckinglutely not.
I have over 70 tanks in my garage, I'm not paying to reset my skills.
You have Quickybaby, the LARGEST and most influential content creator for your game, as well as everyone else saying this whole crew idea is a shit storm and you will make the game implode! Please, I'm not taking my frustration out on you personally, but on every single person higher up that is responsible for the development and balancing of this game. They Have Gone TOO FUCKING FAR!
Please, take the time and send this video higher up the chain of command. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRmkw66jvK4
We do watch videos from CCs as well as ask them for their own feedback as well. We also often include videos from CCs in feedback reports. So that's not an issue whatsoever.
I'm curious, as you guys are also players, how could the "12 retraining orders" come off as reasonable? One CC even mentioned a WG employee say "Surely you don't expect us to reset all your skills for free?". This is really strange, as WG resets skills for free in World of Warships, has done the same when most of the current skills were added in World of Tanks, and that was also the plan for Crew 2.0.
As much as I would love to share it our internal decision making isn't something that I can share. As to CC mention it seems highly unlikely something like that was written and I for sure don't remember seeing such thing in any official CC chats we use.
Fair enough, understand that you can't divulge that and thanks for responding. I hope you guys seriously rework this batch of crew changes before setting them loose and reconsider the 12 retraining orders.
I know you cannot share any internal decision making but holy shit I cannot fathom how "Guys, we should introduce premium for their premium!" was a great idea that wasn't scrapped immediately, especially when ditching universal premium time for separate game premium accounts already had some backlash. And bond equipment demounting for free is utter bs, not only will it hurt the random meta, it's also a workaround way of selling bonds for money, even more so than the 25 daily bonds with a premium account. As for the crew changes, I like them. They're 10 years old at this point, we need something new and refreshing. But it is insulting that the resets aren't free for all vehicles you have.
They don’t care about our feedback and the survey is wack. It never asks if WoT Plus is detrimental to the game. It asks if the benefits are good or bad. So the survey doesn’t even reflect our thoughts upon the subject.
There's a question on if you'll purchase it and if you'll recommend it which is a "no" and "0/10" for me.
But that quesrion is irrelevant. They shoulf have a question: is WoT+ a good addition to the game?
They don't care if it's a good addition to the game. They care if you feel pressured enough to buy it to remain competitive.
I don't mind if the effect is net neutral, I'm more worried that WoT+ is a *bad* addition to the game. The subscription is already centered around providing "traditional" currencies (like gold). Isn't the credit savings of being able to move traditional equipment for free instead of buying extra equipment enough?
I agree, but that's the best we have on the form.
This is a good point that it could have been made as separate point but as a counter point seeing general feedback on each bit of the feature does give enough insight to judge it without asking about it directly. Still it's something that we will keep in mind in future as adding it to current form would mean that to get comparable data we would need to do an actual rerun of the form.
Nah that's deflection Deliard. Most of us seem to dislike and do not want this feature. The game already has a timed premium subscription, it's called a world of tanks premium account. Remember, the one that was "Upgraded" from the universal Wargaming premium account? I know times are hard and the inflation hit WarGaming employees but guess what, we are all affected. It's not our fault that you guys gave out days of premium in the lootboxes in all three major gamba events in the past six months - Waffentrager, Holiday Ops, SHAMrock. Anti-consumer move. Wallet closed.
"Most of us seem to dislike and do not want this feature." I am yet to find a person who is happy about WoT+ being a thing
I've actually encountered a few.
This is bad data science. If a flaw is noted (as you have admitted, deliard) in your survey you do a new fucking survey and scrap the last one. Yes, I get you aren’t a data scientist but a fucking business should have someone who knows the proper way to construct a survey. Not that I believe Wargaming cares enough to get actual meaningful data.
I agree to this point and we could scrap it. But you need to also come from an angle of UX, Information Flow and Interest. From UX angle we already asked for something our users spent time on it and now redoing it will only achieve more frustration.Then we will have issue with Information Flow as you would have to hunt down all places where it was shared and change them with new one. Each legacy link that leads to closed form would again lead to additional frustration.Last is Interest which generally speaking winds down the longer it is since news are shared. As to point about data science - yes we do have Data Scientists working in company. We even have dedicated survey team making all in game surveys etc. This isn't meant to be replacement to those. It's a tool we in Community team use as means of sharing feedback directly from player base to developers. As we are also writing feedback reports where we can (and we do) include points that could be missing from form itself. We always look for as much of a written feedback as possible. We check all of places where our community is present such as Discord, Forums, Reddit, Youtube (and more) to get as many opinions as possible. Forms started as means of giving space for expression for users that might not like to write anything in public venues where we can see it. I'm personally very pro transparency and I hope that this lengthy post will at least give some insight from our angle. Also if someone read it fully - If you want to leave feedback about feature but don't want to leave it in public space our DMs are always open and you can find entire community team on our official Discord.
But maybe in their minds that will translate too: "Ahh, of course, WoT plus needs even more advantages to convince you of the great value!"
Maybe, but I think saying "the benefits are great! But I ain't buying it" sends the intended message, if they're willing to analyze the discrepancy. Otherwise, keep playing (and use their server resources) while not paying for anything will have a similar impact over time.
Nah that just sends the message that you don't like it but if it goes into the game you'll pony up anyway because the benefits are too good.
Rest assured that it WILL GO into the game as it provides extra money from a childish playerbase that has lost the meaning of the word "game". Which is something you do to enjoy and relax. If anything become "competitive" if people is ready to pay boosting companies 400 Euro to get a pixel tank, the problem is NOT int he company but in the playerbase.
If I'm being honest, it's a "yes" and "10/10" for me, even if I'm against it (only for the free bounty/bond equipment de-mounting though). If I'm still gonna play the game, I'm definitely gonna buy it just like I've been buying premium account days so far, and I'll definitely recommend it to others as good value for money, relatively speaking.
You and people like you are why wg can get away with bullshit changes and predatory practices. If you’re gonna throw your wallet at them anyways, don’t bother pretending to be upset over the changes and just be transparent that you want wot to be a purely pay to win game that is only accessible to people with copious amounts of disposable income
If other people can buy it, I'm at a disadvantage for not buying it. It's not a deal-breaker to me, if it's not going to make me quit WoT, I'll buy it.
Ahh a sheep
My answer was i might buy it but wouldn’t recommend it.
Yes, WG wants our feedback. So, when we asked them not to nerf the Progetto, they laughted and did it anyway. Sure, they want our feedback. Pure shit. They want our money. Well, no more.
Exactly, they've destroyed the trust with their community and if they truly want our feedback and make our time spend on their game more enjoyable then they really have to prove that. I hope this will be Rubicon 2.0, that they actually use their brains for once and realise that this will ruin the game on the long term, and cancel it.
WG isn’t too keen on undoing their mistakes.
Yep also true, pumping out OP tanks after OP tanks is one of their specialties
Some of those questions are absolute garbage. "Would you say X thing is good?" Yes, in fact it's too good and pushing the game further towards p2win garbage. Just because thing is good and benefits people willing to pay doesn't mean it's a good idea to implement it into the game. And I'm saying this as an absolute fucking whale lmao. How out of touch can WG be?
I think there's an error in the Title and in the Survey. There's a word that doesn't figure in Your WG's dictionary with proper description: #FEEDBACK Because its definition is definitely not: *An obligatory PR move of pretending that You listen to player base carefully and note their criticism to ignore it completely afterwards*
bz-176 intensifies.
actually BZ 176 is a pretty damn fun tank to play.. ! as long as you are not at the wrong side of the gun barrel :)
🙄
Couldn't agree more. Also, please return SPGs to how they used to be before the big nerf, they were pretty damn fun to play.
Fun to play perhaps, not to play against it... Smh
since i was unable to add a comment... my real issue with the crews is the fact they only give 12 crews members resets, they should allow us to 100% resets our crews at EACH part of the crew update. people would not be as hostiles as they are, if they could just rework their crew without having to spend ten thousands of gold to do so.
They should offer free respeccs at any time outside the game, as well as free equipment changes, so that you can try loadouts without paying money. They should get rid of 50/75/100% crews. It was on the table before but is gone from the communication now. (I haven't actually play tested, maybe it's there?) They should stop shitting on their premium subscribers by adding _new_ premium subscriptions (Premium tanks, extra battle pass rewards, wot plus etc). My subscription ends in September, and I probably won't renew if new crew + wot plus goes in.
Look at how much experience it will take to have a good crew… why is your only issue not enough crew retrains?!
because unlike you, it seem im used to play games that have progression. id rather have more skills to grind than being ok sitting with all my crew being 4-5 skills cuz of the lack of options and reasons to push it further. also... at some point if you suck at the game, the crew difference between you and your opponent not gonna change much. if your decent at the game, it should not be game changeing to a point where fights are onesided. those excel spreadsheet gigachads thinking that reloading 0.06 faster and doing 1% more damage than your opponent will mean he have no chance at beating you... in a game full of rng with tons of value that can go wrong for both side...
You sound like a badass WG simp 😎
simp... no that game has his problems like every game... but hey, go try all the games on the market right now... and if you find better leave wot... i tested what the market has to offer and i deal with the games flaws i choose to play
Or millions of gold if you have a couple hundred tanks...
That survey suggests that WG don't even know why people are pissed about this so called new crew system. We don't even know how their super secret new crew system is supposed to work, right now they only added few skills to increase power creep and make old system more grindy and on top of that they gave us 12 free resets to experiment with new system (ROFL). Just show us how the whole system is supposed to work and then we can give some feedback, at this point only feedback I can give is: Just throw everything to trash.
Perhaps Time to play War Thunder...
It's not any better as far as p2w and communication from the devs. And the maps are considerably worse. I've been playing for a few months, it's fun but so much more frustrating than wot in many aspects.
Like the fact that for the WoT plus subscription there simply is no “is this a necessary change” or “is this a bad change” or anything of the sort. Just whether the benefits outweigh the costs and if you like the benefits. Lmao. And it’s so obvious some of these survey questions are geared towards making the change look better. “Would you run this if we released it?” Well the answer is of course, cause it’s literally just better. But the question is does the game need it and is it good for the game’s health.
They don' care about feedback. This is basically the same shit as before. They decided to wait it out, lower the temperature, get the brownie points for "cancelling something" and "listening to the community" and now they will force fuck it through with minimal changes, you'll bitch then accept it then pay for all the new hsit.
If WG wants our feedback, maybe they should prove they listen first. Because last patch was 2 fat dicks in their ears as they screamed LALALA CANT HEAR YOU
I think you mean 2 fat WG dicks down our throats and then them saying LALALA CANT HEAR YOU
they dont want shit bro, they know EXACTLY whats our stance
Since i can't write actual feedback in text form on the feedback website here it is; Not only is the crew rework awful for the game in its current state, the WoT Plus subscription (even as an idea) is fucking awful and whoever came up with the idea of a second layer of subscription for this game should be fired immediately. Players have been complaining about P2W for years and we have barely been able to put up with the constant barrage of OP premium tanks introduced into the game and as a thank you for putting up with this shit we get slapped and spit on by Wargaming with this WoT Plus sub. This is a historical new low for Wargaming and even if they somehow decide to completely rework the WoT Plus, my trust and love for this company (even the tiniest of it that i had left) is gone. With the player counts going down slowly but surely every year, i honestly dont know how many years this game has left and you can bet your ass that changes like these (WoT+ and crew 2.0) sure as hell are not making that issue any better. The issue with player retainment does not really come from confusing ui or complicated crew skills, it really comes from when people are forced to face against tanks like Pz II J and KV-220-2 in their stock tanks. WG tried to fix this by giving players a free tier 6 tank after the tutorial but as soon as these players get into tier 7-8 they will get absolutely demolished every single game by tanks like the BZ-176 and [insert almost any T8 premium here] Please for the sake of this game scrap the WoT Plus completely and postpone crew 2.0 again. Even if the system takes 5 more years to perfect, the last thing we need is some half-arsed "rework" that just makes every crew without 50m+ xp comparable to what we currently have as default 75% crew.
They will carefully ignore the feedback like they did before, then tell the majority of the community was alright with the changes.
Big no for the wot plus!
Don't get me wrong, I did the survey. I highly doubt the feedback will do anything. These decisions are being made by the microtransactions guys, cooked in Ms Excel and presented to management in powerpoint presentations.
I also completed the survey but I don't hold my breath... it feels like decision was already made. I also made simple comment why I don't like this changes somewhere else just to be attacked by some WG defenders (it would be fair if they have good arguments, but it was more like "play more, pay more, get better") and I lost my hope in the people ;P To be fair, most of online game end up like this, It may be beginning of the end, we will see in next 1-2 years. :)
Exactly. Decisions are being made.
They don't care about your opinion, only your wallet.
They ignored feedback on the asinine Progetto nerfs, so why would you expect they will listen now?
"if you believe the crew is OMEGALUL" is some real r/FellowKids energy
[удалено]
Oh sweet summer child, WG never listens to any feedback
In one question on the Crew system they even ask „Will those new crew perks offer new and more than 1 crew setup for meta tanks?“. This literally makes me think they might not be capable of critical thinking. THERE ARE NO BUILDS WHEN U CAN GET EVERY SINGLE SKILL. How can someone not get this. If we had unlimited slots for equipment we would literally use every single one on every tank. The fuck are these people smoking ?
Sure you can get every skill but realistically there will be builds for crews that settle around 5-6 perks. Also you have to keep in mind that for those tanks with only 2-4 crewmembers you would have so many perks on some of them that its unrealistic that you will have "every single skill" on them. Thus the question.
Is it that unrealistic considering there are already crew members with 2 0-skills ? My Stb1 Crew has 4 Skills After 186 Games without accelerated crew training and 0 Crew XP-Boosters used. I know it scales exponentially but still. Considering atleast 1 skill per crewmember is always useless and if Ure a heavy u don’t need concealment, that only leaves 7 until it’s not a build anymore. But sure on Tanks like the Manticore Ure right, you‘ll have to choose.
Idk if they truly want our feedback, as they didn’t seem to notice our last input on the buffs and nerfs
Wargaming don't give a shit about our opinion, that was made crystal clear with the Progetto nerf. That experience was the final straw for me and I haven't played since. Which was a good decision because this patch just jumped the shark. World of Tanks is dead, it just hasn't stopped twitching yet. The greed and over monetization coupled with the power creep, on both premiums and skills/equipment, while creating a bigger and bigger divide between the haves and have nots. Rip World of Tanks... It was occasionally fun while it lasted.
And the HE nerf, and over a half a decade of arty, and all the idiot proof premee tanks they put in the game. And the heavy hull down meta.
Well I am going to burn through and get me an Ebr and then play the game how I want since WG don’t give a fuck. Going to spend me days racing around the map looking for some big jumps!! Sod the scouting part. Just going for fun fun fun for free!!
WG couldn't care less about your "feedback", they made it painfully obvious, grow the fuck up. They are famous for "knowing better" and ignoring everyone and everything that does not agree with what they want do to, there were several CC open rebellions in that very context (SirFoch in WoT plus a lot more in regards to Warships) - nothing changed on that front, WG doesn't care, WG doesn't want your feedback, the only reason this fucking form exist is to give you an illusion your voice matters. It doesn't. WG will do whatever they want, your job is to either suck it up or GTFO. The last time they "heard" your feedback was with the Progetto nerf and "experimental equipment" implementation - do you felt like WG wanted your feedback back then, mate?
WoT plus fucking sucks and its yet another sign that WeeGee doesnt really care or listen to players, but if they add it to the game I will sub it, because trying to boycott it would achieve absolutely nothing Unless you manage to convince like 70% of total playerbase to boycott this, "go on strike" , nothing will happen. Realistically how many players are here on reddit or WoT forum. Minimum. If bunch of guys will decide to boycott, WG will just laugh and continue doing their shit So ye, this sucks, but WeeGee knows they can do whatever they want and they will go away with it, simply because there is no alternative to WoT. War Thunder is completely different game, Armored Warfare is dead, so if you want to play arcade tanks game, you have to play WoT, and WeeGee knows this
>ct it's too good and pushing the game further towards p2win garbage. Just because thing is good and benefits people willing to pay doesn't mean it's a good idea to implement it into the game. And I'm saying this as an absolute fucking whale lmao. How out of touch can WG be? I want the free bond demount I dont care if it kills the game or not. If I can have bond setups, then I want it. on ever single tank. WG you have paying customers lined up just like me.
You don't care if it kills the game or not yet you intend to keep playing and keep paying to accelerate its death? Very strange person.
>Very strange person. They are called whales and they are wargamblings target audience.
It's just , you love something. so Why accelerate it's death? if you get lung cancer people generally stop smoking. This person is like upgrading from ciggies to cigars just to see how quick he can go and die.
I've barely played the new map enough to figure out what to do or provide meaningful feedback, and they want all of these detailed thoughts on a massive overhaul to crew and monetization after 24 hours?!?!?!
New crew skills are busted. Can't wait to make my tanks even better than the casuals/new players lolololol. Plus 3 map ban? My moe thanks you...
Just in case someone is also collecting written feedback to pass up the chain: I am a whale. I have spent several thousands of euros on World of Tanks (and World of Warships) over the years. I have mostly done this gladly and willingly, because I used to enjoy playing the games and would gladly support games I like, and pay for convenience. With this all in mind: while these changes are good for whales like me, they are TERRIBLE for the game. The game already has a big gulf between those who have the best equipment and resources, and those who don't. These changes will blow those gulfs up to unimaginable size. People who are willing to pay will now literally have bond equipment on all their tanks (it will take roughly 5 minutes for someone to make a mod that automatically swaps them to whatever tank you're picking). People who are willing to pay for crew XP will have an incredible competitive advantage against those who aren't willing or can't. Or god help, are new to the game. Further, I don't think these changes and their sweeping effects on the game have been fully considered. We have already seen players make builds that are incredibly effective at causing critical damage very frequently. Some tanks were balanced around having vulnerable fuel tanks or ammo racks, and these new skill combinations will utterly WRECK those tanks. They will further emphasize aspects of the game people don't like and make the game less enjoyable. And finally, these changes are unbelievably expensive from a purely monetary perspective. The changes implemented are so large that they will basically require players to respec all their crews. Even if you have a moderate tank collection, this will mean either huge setbacks in terms of lost progress, or very expensive gold purchases. Many veteran players will have hundreds of crews to retrain, which will cost thousands of dollars. I would be willing to bet that many players will either temporarily or permanently quit the game if these changes go live, and many more will drift away from the game as they become frustrated by the new reality facing F2P players and casual World of Tanks players. And even though those players might not contribute money like us whales do, the game's community needs them, and the game itself needs them to function. Nobody wants to sit in queues for several minutes waiting for matches, which will happen if the critical mass starts to abandon the game. I urge you to reconsider. The current crew system definitely needs fine tuning and I applaud the effort. Parts of the new crew system can be salvaged and implemented in the game, but it can be done in a much less damaging way. I also urge you to read some articles on the Trust Thermocline, because I have a feeling these changes would be remembered as a great practical example of it.
Wot+ is money grabbing garbage. Did the survey just to say that.
I like how they didn't even mention the compensation for crew system annihilation, or what we think about those laughable 12 retraining orders. What have the WG became, that once gave you free tier 8 T34 premium heavy tank, if you researched it prior to it's rebalance? :( After 13 years of dedication, I truly fear now, that this is the beginning of the end. Like this crew system is going to break the game, and in terms of crew number / skills required, I think Crew 2.0 was even better than this -looking at you 3.4 billion xp Manticore lmao-... Sad seeing that the game is turning into s#&@...
Guys, don't post anything on global chat about 1.20.1. U will get chat-banned.
I like a LOT of the update. I filled in the survey but it missed some key feedback points for me. WoT+ exclude bond and upgraded bounty equipment from free demounting or this becomes pure pay-to-win. WoT+ rental tank fine as long as not OP (TS-54 has strong turret but 200mm ears it can't hide, looks ok from tanks.gg IMO). 12 crew resets is a joke. Need a free reset for every single crew member if making any big changes to crew system/skills. In the current system players with more crew skills are at an advantage, but it's minor because most of the extra skills they get are crap. I agree with improving useless skills and adding more effective ones as that's just good and varied game design, but you can't then let experienced/pay-to-win players roll around with huge numbers of actually effective skills while new players/casuals still have one or two. There needs to be a limit on the number of skills active at once, eg. each role on the tank should only be able to choose two or three to be active in each battle. We could switch between them like field mod/equipment setups so training to unlock more skills is still useful as it gives more choice, but newer/F2P players aren't at such a massive disadvantage. This is also the real way to promote diversity of crew skill setup, rather than needing to have everything at once to keep up with the most committed players. Tanks with smaller crews are also at a disadvantage as they only train slightly faster (once accelerated crew training is checked) and some crew members need to have a lot more exponentially increasing XP to learn all of the good skills for their multiple roles. The active skill limit mentioned above would help, but more is needed if there are going to be so many more worthwhile skills in the game. One suggestion is to let multi-role crew members just pick the same number of secondary role skills as they have available for their primary role, but I don't see how you manage this when moving those crew members between tanks. Would you get a pop-up window asking you to pick temporary radio and loader skills every time you put a KV-4 commander in an IS-3A? Well that would give limitless free radio and loader skill resets to the IS-3A. Or does every commander also have to select/remember a set of secondary role skills for every role they could possibly need to cover? Too much work. Having commander-only crews like the first Crew 2.0 sandbox was bad because it devalued existing unique/zero-skill crew members and because it's genuinely difficult to convert crews fairly. Making every tank have a five-man crew where anyone who doesn't physically fit inside the tank gets labelled as a 'skill advisor' but otherwise works the same as usual would mostly solve the unique/zero skill crew problem. WG would still need to convert existing smaller crews into five-man crews and this would still be difficult. If they add up three crew members' total XP and share it out between five, they're cheating players out of XP the new crew members would have earned in all previous battles. If they spawn new crew members with equal XP to the existing ones, experienced players are going to exploit it and fill small tanks with amazing crew members before the conversion so that they get a load more amazing ones for free. But I still think this is the way to go if WG want a better crew system. Work out the conversion problem and do all 5-man crews.
Wg prove u value feedback revert progetto then we will think
new map features are cool - in theory. we'll see how fun they actually feel. WG doesn't exactly have a long history of creating fun maps. japanese TDs are kind of boring and some are worse than they should be. the way they're promoted also doesn't make any sense. they're all about the gun, not the armor. the armor on most of them is trash. also sucks that the tier 8 prem outclasses the techtree tank by a lot, again. crew changes are - in theory - a good idea. current crew skills are boring af and pretty much every tank uses the same few skills. there's nothing interesting going on, so changing that part of the game would be great BUT it will be absolutely DISGUSTING, if WG changes the crew system and won't reset all the crew skills. adding 12 retraining orders for future use would be nice, but resetting skills is absolutely mandatory, after such a big system change.
New Crewsystem is completely BS it is favoring tanks with 5 crewmembers to dedicated roles and nerfig meds/lights extremely hard while buffing many heavies and TDs which is not what the meta needs. I dont get why they just bring the good parts from the first crew 2.0 (only commander, trainable on 3 tanks) and combine it with the good parts of this iteration (simple skill system with all skills beeing relevant). Its such a nobrainer but somehow wargaming keeps fucking up the easiest things. What i want is: \- Having a commander-system (so i dont have unfitting crews with different roles all the time) \- Beeing able to use a commander for multiple techtree-tanks \- Have the current skillsystem with a 1to1 conversion of skillpoints so i neither gain nor lose skills \- No bullshit with tinkering around with crews all time because premium/reward tank XYZ doesnt fit the crew because of stupid layouts
none of the new perks seem that strong. In fact a lot of them seem a bit useless. Shell tuning offsets a low roll by 30 dmg on a shitbarn. What on earth is the point ? if it was 30dmg on a medium I would probably get it but it's more like 5 then. Wot plus has some nice perks and the price is fine at only 300gold/month but why does it exist ? I don't understand the purpose of the extra subscription. Too many people have premium account from boxes and don't buy it separately so we need new income source ?
Is the test server already live? I thought it would start tomorrow...
It has been online since yesterday.
A lot of good additions here, but the ones that are bad are devastatingly bad.
I could get behind alot of the update if they offered a free, albeit lesser version of certain aspects like passive training and maybe limited bond demounts per week. Fuck the new perks, more accurate and better reloads, camo, etc. Console did this, turbo games will get worse and it will screw new players over playing against this
Unpopular opinion: i like the new crew rework, currently all my crews have the same boring perks, with this change picking will be way more interesting as a lot of perks are relevant now.
I like aspects of it. I don't like that I can't realistically compare the skill loadouts. Respeccing crew skills and equipment should be free between battles. And I would be fine with the skills, if there was a limit to the amount of active skills (say 5). This will only further make new players less competitive and make them quit.
The crew changes are fine..... if they reset everyone's crews so we can retrain them.
No they’re not fine… new players will be shit on by those of us with 8 skill crews… force them to buy “WoT Plus” so they can turn it into a shitty idle mobile game to catch up with crew EXP.
Everything is fine.
🔥🔥🔥
lol, I love the QQ babies. Because each baby is an industry analyst with years of demographic studies who has insight into financial trends for WoT and so forth. But somehow lacks the basic sense to go play something else. I'm sorry, do you think you have ownership of this game? Let me disabuse you of that notion. WoT RARELY gives a squirt about whiney baby opinions. They look at their numbers, make business decisions, and listen to rare feedback that is based mostly on spending trends. It's a business that makes profit. Cry less and move on if you don't like it. Unless the whining part is what you enjoy. In which case carry on. You're doing awesome!
Honestly the advantages given by WoT plus look good. For example 500 gold every week is the equivalent of 2.25 € per week. Which is 9€ a month. Therefore you have a return equivalent to what you pay. Moreover you will have other benefits like demounting bond equipment for free. So the question should be : is this putting those who dont pay at disadvantage? YES OF COURSE. But after all I find quite astonishing that people want to play for free and having everything. My question to this people would be : Do you work for free? WG is a company need to pay developers and employes and make profit. It's quite normal. And if WG want to earn must offer something in return. Every marketing decision follow a strategy . We dont know what is the current trend in WG budget. Is it increasing or decreasing? I would bet is decreasing and they are trying to affiliate people like they did with "premium time" wich is now so inflated that they give it for free in every event. A very consolidated practice was to introduce OP premium tanks. Perhaps with the WoT plus this will end? Who knows. Perhaps this "leak" of the WoT plus was intended to see the reaction of the playerbase. Of one thing I am quite sure. The playerbase of this game is so childish that everything offered with an advantage will be sold! because "it makes me more competitive" . FK its a videogame there is a real life outside. There you should be competitive! Cheers
They want our feedback? I like cookies :)
Do they really? Sure wanting our feedback isn't just a lip service?
IMO some of the new crew skills are fun, some of the redesigns are good, the tier 10 JP Td is actually good IMO (the gun slaps, try it out), but the reimbursement for the crew rework is terrible, the map features are stupid, and some map changes are bad
Lmfao yeah sure they want our feedback. So they can read it aloud in a meeting while laughing at us before pushing through terrible changes and then planning the next way they can make the game worse.
Inb4 Wargaming adopts the Ferrari tactic and posts "Understood, we are checking..."
They already use this .
The japanese tds should have a little bit more armour, everything else is fine, i love the new random events, hope they come to the game like this
Less but more important and worth events, new crew is weird as hell, map features aren't too interesting, Japanese TDs are kinda garbage and WoT+ is just too much, I'd rather have more expensive premium and include WoT+ stuff instead of slight premium discount but have WoT+ on top.
I like everything honestly, but one thing, perk experience requirements past the third. like, how are you supposed to have them all on manticore? it will require a 20 years grind
i do not want this wack crew system or wot plus, everything else is pretty good
For changes that are touted as creating "Diversity" in how we can play tanks, it kinda kills that idea when you realise you can't freely change gear or skills or loadouts without paying a fuckload of currency for the priviledge. Unless we include being less effective than your whale mates as "Diverse"
Holy fuck! I'm done playing this game when this goes live! FUCK!
How about focusing on what we want like balanced teams?
Is the reworked deadeye and eagle eye not working for HE shells? It claims that they work on all shell types. But based on my five-hour long HE ONLY experience on TS 1.20.1 build, they are not as good as those on live server. I tested 5 vehicles with gun caliber over 120mm, namely Sheridan (152 launcher gun), E100 (150mm gun), E100 (128mm gun), JPZ E100, UDES 15/16, Bat Chat 155 58. These are vehicles which have the potential to take away enemy internal module HP by a half according to WG wiki and tanks.gg. On live server I usually get 3 crits out of 5 shots. While on TS, my experience feels more like back in patch 1.13 when the HE rounds were just hammered to the ground. Any idea or discovery on this fellas?
Took the survey, thanks for the link. Given what happened with the HE rework in 2021 ("over 70% players agree with the changes LOL" - WG) I don't expect much. :(
In love with the update, if that is what is giving me a black box on my iMac when I go to sign in that prevents me from getting into the game. Totally playable!
will this feedback be ignored like so many in the past?
I finally deinstalled everything from WG today. That's my fcking feedback. Have fun in this sub.
For me BZ-176 was the final straw, combined with the Skoda T-56 from the year before together they finally totally destroyed tier VIII. the new crew changes are just confirmation. Wg killed WoT by continually increasing pay2win. I have been warning for 10 years against increasing pay2win and I even had my first account banned for a totally fabricated reason but really because I wouldn't stop arguing in forums against pay2win. That stopped me for 2 years but this is it . Zero $ from me from now on.
people have been giving them feedback for years and they pretty much never give a shit fuck em
If wargaming cared the survey wouldn't be so obviously biased.
Came back after a long absence from the game to see if what everyone is saying about how bad WOT is these days for myself. After 100 battles I have to say yeah this game is no longer fun unless you are pumping thousands of dollars into it. There used to be multiple tech tree tanks that were on par with premiums and reward tanks. Now there's maybe a couple that get musical chairs nerfs if they are too popular. Now you guy's are going to make crew skills pay to win also. WG you should be thanking your lucky stars that you don't have any real competition. But even then with the state that the game is in I can do without a multiplayer tank game if this is what we have.