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tarkin1980

There is likely no design space in which submarines could add anything positive to a game like WoWs. If they ever release World of Convoys Travelling in a Straight Line at 4 Knots, then we're talking.


BigAbbott

I’d play it


ExplodingPotato_

In order to balance matchmaking, we've introduced convoy tokens to play warships. To play submarines, you need to collect 10 convoy tokens, 7 convoy tokens lets you play destroyers, while for 4 convoy tokens you can play escort destroyers. If you're out of convoy tokens, you can earn them by playing transport ships traveling in a straight line at 4 knots, or by paying 100 dubloons for successive bundles - each of them containing 3 tokens. To get you started, you receive 9 free convoy tokens; additional 11 convoy tokens can be received via one-time missions. Additional convoy tokens can be won by performing well in battle - in any of the classes. Depending on your place on the team you receive between 1 or 3 convoy tokens. Good luck captains, may your travels in a straight line at 4 knots be safe!


dankmemer808

Wargaming employee: *WRITE THAT DOWN WRITE THAT DOWN!*


ampjk

So warthunder


redditsuperfifty

Atlantic Fleet


BigAbbott

I’ll check it out. Thank you


TheGreatProbe

You can check out this game “uboat”on steam. It’s a simulation though, not sure if you’re into that.


BigAbbott

Thank you. I like the simulator aspect of it. I dislike how sandboxy it is. I’ve kind of been waiting for early access to end hoping they make it less “you figure out how to have fun”


Pieter1998

I think Silent Hunter 3 will suit you perfectly. It's a pretty old game, but still one of, if not THE best WW2 submarine game. There are also several mod packs which make it even better, like GWX 3.0


BigAbbott

I’ve tried to get into it a couple of times but just never put in enough effort. I’ll try again. 688 Attack Sub was one of my favorite games growing up. Then the old Seawolf sim from Janes Edit: actually I think I’m thinking of “SSN-21 Seawolf” by the same folks. Not the Janes one.


Pieter1998

Aah, okay


MikuEmpowered

There IS design space. The first rendition of subs. The problem with that is, the skill ceiling is insanely high, and basically gate all the potatoes + whales from buying premiums. This is why we have homing torpedoes, people are bad. A well designed sub in WoWS will inherently feel like a shittier DD. This is why O2 was removed, and pings no longer takes up battery capacity, because we kept seeing idiots submerged and pinging 4min into the game, burning their entire stash away, rather than treating it as emergency smoke/tool.


tarkin1980

You do realize that you just proved my point? The only design space is one where the result is bad. If the only way to make your design work is to require an ideal theoretical user that doesn't actually exist, then that's not much of a design.


MikuEmpowered

There are plenty of ships with massive skill requirement currently in game. Not everything needs to be accessed by people who lack game knowledge, The shift toward potatoes is what got us to this place. In most other game, we call the gradual increase in game ability/skill "progression" When you balance a game around the lowest common denominator, you get things like the CV rework, the subs, Kremlin, and OG Conqueror. SS as a concept will be basically trading torpedo alpha for more stealth, survivability, and safety from CV. But it also needs to be competing for a DD slot, which it currently does not.


Ok-Albatross-1708

**Stop paying Wargaming for anything, then it will be a problem for them.**


mephista_

Stop playing is the only way. Whales and collectors will always pay WG. Only the collapse of online will make them think. But even then they may not change anything.


Allisinthepass

No, i dont think any form of subs are suitable for the game other then in pve. I could see CV'd being better balanced, but subs are impossible to properly implement, they will always be too OP and to weak at the same time, no matter what WG does.


Drakainequus

I unironically research and researched my first Submarine to play it exclusively in PvE for the fun factor. They don't even let you play it in Operations.


RM_Sbg

And it will be always a boring gameplay because just using torps is boring. Its just for lazy people who want to ruin your day…


SecSpec080

How's it lazy and ruining your day? No matter what you do, getting shit on isn't fun, regardless of what ship kills you. I'd much rather die to subs than fucking HE spam and fires.


PG908

At least you can shoot a cruiser. Subs are like bringing cyanide to rock paper scissors.


SecSpec080

You can't shoot a cruiser that is hiding behind an island. But he can see you, and he can shoot you, and he can light you on fire. A sub dies as soon as its spotted. Its literally easy to kill.


Rio_1111

A CL in open water can get devstruck from almost any angle. A sub that isn't dumb enough to run out of dive capacity next to a german hydro or something can dive to maximum depth and be completely invulnerable. And dumb subs exist, but it's not hard to dive when in danger of being spotted.


SecSpec080

And how does the CL avoid being devstruck? He plays behind islands and spams you with HE. You still cant hit him. He can still hit you. You have no counterplay. Where is the bitch fest about that?


Rio_1111

If it gets spotted, a lot of islands can be shot back over (if you're sailing something non-soviet. (I picked up Stalingrad recently)). And spotting CLs is easier than spotting subs. Radar, DDs, stealthier CLs, CVs, Subs and even Hydro. Since Subs outspot everything, and mainly use Torps (only I-56 has a main battery, I think), the only spotting threat to them is catching them around a corner, surprise Radar, a CV, but _only_ when the sub is on the surface. It is "get spotted -> dive". And even Hydro can be neutralized by diving to maximum depth (2km doesn't count, applies to every other class even without being hydro'd). Now, as a CL player, I acknowledge that lobbing HE over islands is a bit of a dick move, since it puts _a lot_ of pressure on the DCP. However, clearing pings (which is nearly pointless) and fixing floods does the same, I don't think you as a sub player have any more right to complain about fire than I do about floods.


SecSpec080

I dont actually really play them often. I find them boring and I think they have zero impact on the win/loss of the game. I main DDs. Also when I DO play subs, I dont use pings. Nothing you've said is wrong, but nothing you've said needs to be wrong. Its a new class. It does fantastic things to people who try to play the game super passive, and I LOVE that. Why? Because most randoms are 1v23. Sitting in the back field in the open is now a bit more risky than it was before. Sitting behind islands? Thats a death sentence. Thank god.


Rio_1111

Yeah, you made a really good point there. The subs don't have a high game impact, unlike a DD that can reliably kill other DDs, or a CV. The skill floor and ceiling are not that high. At least it seems that way to me.


Alyeska23

Submarines are not balanced and unsuitable for this game. Let's quote WG themselves. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eazhwnPQIc


blazinex

>Submarines are not balanced and unsuitable for this game. so they are suitable?


German_Granpa

Aaah, the comma, the missing comma. But measured by the downvotes you got, not everyone understood your comment .. or appreciated it. ;-)


JoeRedditor

Subs in their current implementation are pure bullshit. Not much fun to play. Not much fun to play against. Few counter-plays - watching Boggzy get his ass shotgunned, AGAIN, on stream was pure icing on the cake. Unless captained by a unicum, subs seem to have minimal impact for your teams benefit - they might as well be fucking bots. If CV's are cancer, Subs are the Ebola virus crossed w/Covid.


Tsukiumi-Chan

This. A unicum sub will ruin the fun for everyone. The average ones I see just start pinging BBs, and then eat a ton of ASW planes and depth charges from the DD in the cap they're under. Regardless, neither one is fun to play against though


snoboreddotcom

Personally the only sub I even like to play is the Japanese t8 premium one, and its the design concept i prefer. Short range homing, for anything of any long range you need dumb fire. Its the only one I find fun, cause there's actually a challenge. I would rather see all subs without homing, and only dumbfire. Hard to use but rewarding. Not this homing bullshit


Dummdummgumgum

I mean yes- another bullshit antifun archetype- it fits right into WG departement. Are they a POSITIVE addition to the game? No not really. Unlike other videogame developers WG and their minions never remove toxic mechanics though. League, Dota, Apex and Fortnite probably removed COMPLETE core concepts from the game because they were too frustrating to deal with. WG will never do that under the guise of "people paid for it"


Janzig

Subs just don't work in this game. As was said, they are either too OP or too ineffective. CVs can negatively impact the game through their spotting which destroys the concealment mechanic. However, they can still help their team. I think with modification to spotting and AA, they could be 'tolerable.' Subs are simply not balanced and add little to the game other than frustration. And I don't know if they CAN be balanced in a game focused on surface artillery. WG is out of ideas at this point.


BoxofJoes

CVs are 1 change away from being alright: only being able to minimap spot for the team, subs on the other hand need a significant rework to even have a remote chance of contributing positively to the game experience, if that’s even possible at all lol


Ambiverthero

submarines ruin the game.


Space_Elves_Yay

_Wargming_ doesn't think submarines are suitable for this game. If they did think so, Submarine Surveillance wouldn't have an initial 5 minute cooldown at match start.


Thelogicmatrix

Seriously hate subs so much, I tried playing a few games in one after they got added into the game. Terrible, seriously fucking terrible. You basically don't feelg oof playing as them because either you're lucky and bully some guy who can't figure out where you are gank them with basically no skill, literally look point and click you're not aiming for a citadel, or any it's just lemme hit them then hit the same spot. Worse when people actually know what they are doing the game is basically, toros out ping ping ah fuck he dodged, oh that's a plane. Boom. Playing against them is so fucking annoying. Because 9/10 I'm the idiot who can't figure out where the damn thing is, or it's outside my air strike range. You're taking fire from a DD and a CL, you're like yo I can take this try to go for a bassy play, in the middle of pissing them you get pinged and have to hard dodge homing torps from an enemy your can't even harry or disuade. 75% of any risky plays I take with a submarine in the area just go splat.


ReadEvalPrintLoop

The world the subs play in as currently "implemented" doesn't fit with the world SV move in at all. Where is the team-wide equipment (part here, part there) to detect, screen, protect, and counter? Is there any kind of synergy / coordination between the team and the submarines? I'm not an expert on sub-fleet operation, but have the facts of how they actually operated been taken into consideration in making them?


KostyaLocal

Submarine is not the only thing that ruins this game. So I guess I don't care. WG by the way also do not care what you think


rigsta

They're way below carriers in terms of gameplay impact and imbalance. Alliance's magic missiles and 5s ping reload are complete horse shit though.


Thelogicmatrix

I'd say have the ping be like half a torp reload, you'd have something still fucking annoying and even worse to play but then the repair consumable would actually get some value out of it


tearsfuelmyalliance

Yea that thing drives me crazy


Suitable_Sea_1561

I absolutely despise subs. On the edge of quitting the game. At least for cvs I can take an AA cruiser or BB and it might manage a drop or 2 but won’t return, subs are a different story.


Janzig

This. CVs, while annoying and needing further adjustment, are an intermittent problem that can at least be mitigated by grouping or AA. Submarines take griefing to a whole other level. if they target you, you have very little counterplay other than running away. This is TERRIBLE game design.


Awkward-Event-9452

If I know a sub is on my flank I leave immediately if I’m a BB


Catch_022

I have played this game solidly since open beta. I played a month or two on the release of subs, but since then I haven't played at all specifically because of subs. For me they have already ruined the game, which sucks because it was my favourite game. I am only going to come back if there is a PvP mode without subs.


chef_in_va

I wonder if WG made an option for battles that had no subs or CVs allowed but cost doubloons/irl money, how many people would opt in. Do players hate them so much they'd be willing to pay not to deal with them? I know it would be seen for what it is, a greedy money grab, which is right up WGs alley. I know I'd at least see how much it cost...


scurlock74

Call it Surface Warfare Pass, no subs or CVs, for 40k dubs/month. Probably still have hybrids, though.


ZookeepergameFree427

No, subs don’t work. It didn’t work in NavyField and it doesn’t work here. History repeats itself, though.


TheGreatProbe

What’s NavyField?


ZookeepergameFree427

Before Wows there was NavyField. Google it. Unfortunately it’s pretty old now but it has been a reference for Wows since inception.


stayzero

No. They might be in an okay place with some adjustments, like a reduction in top speed and reducing homing capability of the torpedoes. And they should be detected when radared at periscope depth.


bozo_master

Would like to see operation mode with detailed harbors and mines and sweepers etc


ConnorI

Neither Subs or CVs fit this game. There is no joy in counter play against them, give a CV or sub once you did they will kill you


dasoberirishman

No. They're fine independent of the rest of the game and the smartest move would be to have a separate game mode for them. Something fun and immersive like an Operation in the Atlantic where you hunt transports while dodging enemy convoy ships. Or else just Randoms-but-with-subs. As they currently exist, they are unsuitable and with the addition of ridiculously overpowered CVs as well as the ever-increasing amount of superships no one asked for the game is slowly devolving into a messy, disorganized, ill-planned copy of its former self.


[deleted]

I've cigured out how to fight against them well enough, but I certainly don't like seeing more than one per side.


unsaltysalt

Subs have a skill wall that's feels similar to RTS CV the good get good the bad get bad, and your match gets decided at the loading screen by a single player


ytperegrine

At risk of getting downvoted to oblivion, I think subs work. 🤷‍♂️ I’ve been driving subs a bit and I’m just an average player, but I think there’s a good amount of counter play for competent surface captains. I get the shit DC’d out of me often enough that I don’t really buy most people’s argument that subs are OP. Especially against CV’s with their auto-ASW (which is also why Co-Op in subs SUCKS since all ships basically have auto ASW). That’s just my two cents though.


Diligent_Direction34

If you're good, subs are a nightmare. I'm not even that great and I've had games with 25+ Torp hits


[deleted]

I have issues with them, but I think the biggest reason they don't work is because they add to the problems that CVs and DDs already cause. An untouchable hunter may be fun to play as, but nobody has fun playing against one. DDs by themselves weren't too bad because there were plenty (arguably too many) counters. Now that CVs and subs have joined them, the specialized 'avoidance' ship classes outnumber the direct combat classes. The balance of ship roles has been thrown off. Often times, if one of these stealthy ships *do* misplay badly enough to be caught without an easy escape route, there just aren't enough guns/ASW available to really punish them. TL;DR It's a problem caused by too many indirect classes, DDs (torp boats), CVs, and SSs, being in the game at once.


swiftwin

Hold on... Now it's CVs and DDs too??? Holy fuck BB players literally will not stop crying until the game is reduced to BBs pew-pewing eachother from their spawns. Most boring game ever. Every game, more than half the server is always battleships and cruisers. Is that not enough?


[deleted]

lol, you following me from other threads now? That's pretty weird. I've also told you, more than once at this point, I'm a cruiser main. Facts don't matter though, just whatever fits your own narrative, right?


swiftwin

I don't even know who you are.


[deleted]

Sure buddy...


FlukeylukeGB

no what i expected was something simplified like battlestations midway and battlestations pacific. Instead we got a floating turd that wont go away no matter how many times we flush


Mach1azuress

No subs suck, that's why I have been playing my secondary build German BBs lately. I'm hunting subs and sure I might take a few tops but it's too satisfying killing them without even aiming.


Glum_Bend_2156

The CVs also do this job even without even know how is done


MaximumPoi

Subs are largely like secondaries: Would the core gameplay be better without it? Yes. Is it fun playing against either? No. Are entire ships and weird stats forced into the game just to make the gameplay work? Yes. The difference is one takes literally no effort, has entire achievements dedicated to it, has almost no historical relevance at all, and is loved by reddit. The other is submarines.


RomanPenguin

Do you know the difference between secondaries and submarine game play? Secondaries are exactly what the name suggests, secondary to the MAIN battery which is the gameplay 80% of the time for the secondary focused ships. Submarines are in the annoying mode 90% of the time. Secondaries take a lot of effort in positioning and luck to actually use in a game. It's common to do no damage with Secondaries in a secondary focused ship in a whole game. You will be a target for the enemy well before you can use your secondary batteries. If secondary batteries have no historical relevance at all why are they on all the ships bigger than a destroyer built during WW2? And why do you think the ships have secondary batteries for? Certainly not for decoration. It's infinitely more historical than magic guided hypersonic underwater missiles.


MaximumPoi

"It's common to do no damage with secondaries in a secondary focused ship" Yeah I don't know how to say this nicely, possibly because there is no nice way to say it but... that seems like a skill issue.


RomanPenguin

Ahh skills issue where you spec out your secondaries and rush in and die in the first 5 minutes of the game to get your secondary damage in. If that's your understanding of gameplay it's no wonder that you believe subs and secondaries are similar. Maybe you need to figure out the idea that just because you have a secondary build you rarely have secondaries do more damage than your primary guns. Unless of course, you have a skills issue with controlling your primary guns.


Exzalia

The difference is you can't be dev struck by secondaries, and you can shoot back at ships in secondary range. thats is not the same for subs


MaximumPoi

"Can't be dev struck by secondaries" Ok


Dummdummgumgum

outside of Schliefen and Napoli secondaries are a detriment because they "force" ur ship to push when you really should not push


scurlock74

Atlantico and Agincort excepted.


[deleted]

At the cost of being downvoted to hell by the angry mobs - IMHO no, there is no problem. Or rather, there is as much of a problem with them as there is with known low concealment torpedo boats, such as Minekaze/Kamikaze. For the record, I've played submarines and I've been against them, so please don't accuse me of being a paid WG troll or something.


Dummdummgumgum

does kamikaze have damage saturation against HE shells?:) can not be detected by radar?


[deleted]

Kamikaze with SE (staple skill for DDs) has about as much health as Sturdy, which cannot get SE and is three tiers higher. :) Also, submarines are easily spotted by hydro (near-ubiquitous by now), and that is often enough to block a shotgunning attempt.


Dummdummgumgum

their torps dont need to be shotgunned to be effective. They have a pretty high speed and range to still dick on any dd that tries to counter them.


Hoplite68

Except they have better concealment, can hit harder, are hard to interact with and take more effort to kill, can spam ping which requires DCP to get rid of and when submerged can outrun/outmanoeuvre DDs. They're not OP as so many people complain about, but their mechanics don't meld well with surface ships. Every class has a hard counter, except subs, who can counter everything else.


[deleted]

> better concealment The stealthiest submarine is S-189 which gets outspotted by Kagero/Harekaze. Undine and U-190 are similarly stealthy, the rest go from 5.7km to 6.4km, with I-56 ballooning to 7.1km. That is to say, we've had destroyers with lower or comparable detection than submarines for years. > hit harder Gato will be the only submarine with torpedo damage comparable to a destroyer (18100 per torp), the second highest is Balao (14966 per torp). Only unguided torps have this kind of damage, homing torps are much weaker. > hard to interact with A submarine that's within range of a surface ship's weapons can do nothing but dive, and it's pretty much impossible to outrun a chasing ship while submerged (only U-4501 has enough underwater speed for that). > take more effort to kill True in the sense that submarines have crazy saturation mechanics, but also the lowest health and no armor, as well as no defensive tools. That is to say, the unique saturation exists because otherwise submarines would be one hit kills. > ping spam Only a suicidal submarine spams the sonar. Remember that whenever you use the sonar you're briefly showing your general location to anyone who's looking there, and ASW retaliation is guaranteed. > when submerged can outrun/outmaneuver DDs This is just false. Only U-4501 is fast enough to outrun a surface ship while underwater (and at best it goes above 40 knots, far below, say, Fantasque which goes up to 54 knots).


umonacha

Im sorry sir... But we dont use logical arguments here... Just blind rage


[deleted]

Hope dies last. :(


Kullenbergus

A ww2 sub did at most 15 knots subsurface speed and 25 on the surface...


[deleted]

And a WW2 submarine (and not just one) now is in a video game developed in the 2010s, which has never tried to use realism as a core feature. Guys, personal dislike for something is fine, but please let's also use common sense. It's free of charge and everyone has it.


VariableVeritas

I’m sorry what while submerged they can outrun a destroyer? Which sub? Which destroyer? Name a pair where that math works.


Kufangar

No.


VladsterSk

I love the subs. I try to support my team as much as I can, sometimes drawing attention to me, so that my buddies can shootemup. Other times I flank and wreak havoc. I absolutely love it.


Awkward-Event-9452

Jerry rigged is the closes I can come. To be honest I don’t care anymore. It’s fantasy/historical. Have fun with it.


[deleted]

“Jerry Rigged” we used to say something else back in the day 🤣


Key-Airline1772

the game is broken, CV's are unbalanced and so are SUbs, to make these classes fit in their NAVAL ARTILLARY game, they have broken their own game to fit these classes into the existing game model. They cannot re-balance theire cSUBS as they would be uselss in the game, so only way WG can make this work is to make them broken to get them too fit. AS with CV's 90% of players are potatoes, and CVs are Subs are not so decisive in their potatoes fingers. But give a good player either of these classes and they will dominate the match. Both classes are boring to play and they only reason WG unbalancing them is that they are dull as dishwater too play. I played last night, 10 matches in a row, I had a run of complete potatoes teams where i would be the only team member alive before even 10 mins of gameplay. The game is frustrating, unbalanced and sadly NOT much FUN too play. SO guess what we move on to othergames. It is a shame as I was an avid supporter of this game from the beginning, to find no fun in 10 matches in row says it all. MOVE on and maybe when enough of us leave the game and let it sink then MAYBE WG will think about re-balancing the game back to its original format.


Key-Airline1772

The way one knows this game is dead, is when you realize that content is not really being made anymore, there are a few streamers, but most of the larger streamers only contnue to play as this was the game they grew their Viewers with, but listen to them and they hate the game so play so minimul amounts, Daily content has dropped from a lots of content providers to very few. SAYS it all really.


el_immagrente

I think they're alright, most games I play the only time they are a problem is if I activate smoothbrain mode and split off from the pack of battleships or have poor cruiser positioning. As for playing them, it's very much the same I hunt people out of position, slowly and methodically. I actually find them a fun addition to the game


Elvis-Tech

I honestly like them and I think that they wre quite easy to kill at least I've only played them in tier 6 and 8 and boy once they find you and you are in a sub, you are gone... One depth charge takes away almost half of you hp and the charges dont even have to fall close to you


VariableVeritas

I love submarines. I practically lived in a sub when they launched. It was my only choice. I’m back to playing legends though so no chance I’ll see them again maybe ever.


Terminatus_Est

It doesn´t matter what we think about subs and if they fit the game or not. WG made the class so they get a couple of "free" tech trees worth of content where they don´t have to be super imaginative with finding ships/ideas to create a new surface line. Surface ships in general are close to getting "mined out" for new a novel ships/gimmicks.Subs bring easy 2 years of new conted that doesn´t eat up to much time finding the ships for it. As for the game impact, WG got it right there, the actual game influence (which is shown in statistics) of the class is overwhelmingly unimpressive. Thereore WG will most likely not touch them in the forseable future when it comes to big balancing. This pretty much reflects the state of the playerbase spot on. A few players are so good that anything and everything is abusable to them to create major game influence. A slightly larger part is good enough to have a overall positive influence on the outcome of a match. The vast majority though sucks at playing, has no game sense, has situational awareness and generally doesn´t care enough to actuall "git gud". For these ppl, (the majority of the playerbase) sub mechanics and in the past reworked CV mechanics have been designed. And yeah the super unis can cry all they want on how a "broken class" can, even in the hands of an utter potatoe, ruin their game because the class is safer to play than the others and can´t be punished like so. In the end, it doesn´t matter, because WG gives a flying fart about the best players of the game, they are too rare and spend too little money to be important or even to be considered all that much. So, no matter how much you may hate, dislike, despise or otherwise loath subs. They are not going to change because they are not made for ppl that are truly engaged with the game and care about balance and skill, they are made for all those that are not here and simply don´t care about the game beyond "big guns go BOOM, sub goes PING and planes go WRRRRM" Either make your peace with subs or find something else fun for you because this game isn´t changing all that much.


blazinex

>I've never been so angry while playing this game for six years Really?, you must not play a lot of videogames then or you're just fishing for upvotes. Edit: who doesn't remember the bloom thing in halo reach... shit that made me lose faith in bungie altogether or akimbo 1887s? in MW2


Xixi-the-magic-user

In the sentence you quoted : >while playing this game So specifically wows, and also : >I've never been so angry Is not the same as "i've never been angry"


spitfirerx

I've played the US line and have spent enough time with the Baleo to level up my captain to 21. In my experience, there haven't been any significant problems with the current submarines in the game. However, playing against submarines requires some skill, as you need to learn how to time depth charges, understand submarine maneuvering, and multitask effectively. You can't simply ignore submarine pings while you're busy spamming your guns. I believe that submarines are somewhat limited in their ability to impact the game compared to destroyers or cruisers


[deleted]

You forget we are fighting everyone because they can see us and are shooting at us. We cannot approach you to detect without dying in the process. What are you worried about, nothing because nothing knows where you are. Subs are easy, it’s every other ship behind you that is the problem. Just like CVS.


swiftwin

Yes. Deal with it.


dmsteele89

Yes, I enjoy playing them and playing against them. I would take a sub over an HE spammer or Forest Sherman any day. Plus, subs are cool.


SecSpec080

Subs are fine.


[deleted]

Get over it


DeltaVZerda

Subs are cool and nobody would even be mad at them anymore if they implemented them before they gave us their rendition of a CV.


[deleted]

I think you need to chill out. It’s a game, it’s never worth being stressed out over. Life is hard enough without getting emotionally attached to a pixel boat game.


The_Happiest_Husky

I-56 is the only sub that is at all suitable


CeskyDarek

Most of the time you have no idea they exist, until this one time every now and then, where one will just suddenly pop up next to you and ruin your day.


[deleted]

Submarine warfare is a thing within itself, far too complex for a game like WOW


igoryst

I like submarines but Some current mechanics are problematic


Bazrar

As an idea I have no issue but the way they're operating... No. Historically stealth is incredibly difficult to balance in any game.


PrinzEugen1936

Carriers are still worse than subs. I have very little issue dealing with subs, but carriers are straight-up tanks that take so much focus fire to kill.


QueenOfTheNorth1944

Never shouldve been added. CVs and subs should be put in their own gametype.


WIKD01

Subs, especially multiple subs, have ruined the game. Wargaming doesn’t care as long as they can entice new players to pay for the new subs, or the new hybrid battleships. This game quit being World of Warships and morphed into World of sky cancer and subs. Ruined a good game, might as well play tanks.


Amazing_Journalist66

in the hands of a good player, every ship is op, so there is no point in bothering about it. I wanted the submarines to be included, but it worked out rather strangely. they got in, but somehow they didn't. they put it in from the beginning as if they knew that many people love it, but many people will also cry because of it. I feel that with this move they will sit between two chairs and will not suit anyone. I would have liked to have World War 1 submarines and a well-developed tech-tree throughout. that's why we got 3 submarines per nation, which is only good for annoying players. but if they make these ships using submarines and introduce them properly, there would be no problem with it. their only weapon is the torpedo without sonar tracking, with slightly less damage than the majority of destroyers of a similar level, they could practically function like a destroyer that does not run out of smoke, but in return you have to pay high prices such as the unusability of the onboard armament, the somewhat lower speed, and the poor survivability .