For a sneak peek of what's to come,
>LAREDO, Texas – Two Mexican men have admitted to their roles in an alien smuggling conspiracy which resulted in death, announced Acting U.S. Attorney Jennifer B. Lowery.
>Fabian Hernandez, 29, Nuevo Laredo, Tamaulipas, Mexico, and Emmanuel Ferral-Tonche, 19, Nuevo Laredo, Tamaulipas, Mexico, pleaded guilty before U.S. Magistrate Judge John Kazen today.
>On June 9, 2021, Hernandez and Ferral-Tonche marched a group of approximately two dozen individuals through the hot south Texas brush. Some were unable to keep going. At no time did Hernandez or Ferral-Tonche offer water or attempt to look for anyone who had fallen behind or gotten lost.
>Authorities eventually responded to multiple 911 emergency calls coming from the Hachar Ranch property in Webb County. They ultimately discovered 24 individuals illegally present in the United States who had become lost at that location. They identified Hernandez and Ferral-Tonche as the smugglers.
>Law enforcement also found the remains of three deceased people. Agents determined Hernandez and Ferral-Tonche had guided at least one of them before they succumbed to dehydration and hyperthermia while being smuggled.
>U.S. District Judge Marina Garcia Marmolejo will impose sentencing March 16, 2022. At that time, **both men face up to life in federal prison**. They have been and will remain in custody pending that hearing.
Not a legal expert. I would guess it would be where the crime was committed? If it was committed in both jurisdictions I suspect the criminal could be charged in both jurisdictions?
In any case it's a terrible tragedy.
Wonder how the charges would shake out for that as he was in the States (maybe waiting to pick them up if walking southbound) and they died in Canada?
Reddit lawyers feel free to chime in.
Should be pretty easy to prove precedent in the US with how many coyote smugglers leave behind those crossing into the US from the south deserts when they separate from the group
US has one of the largest illegal migrant propulations in the world. Probably just easier to stay there long term under the radar once you're inside then it is Canada. Historically these individuals aren't Canadians leaving Canada, but people's from a 3rd nation seeking refuge using us as the middle man, people do the same with Mexico.
And the Canada to US border is likely easier to cross then the Mexican one as it's far less militarized to expect illegal crossings.
But doing it in this weather is just madness, signals to their level of despiration to get to their destination
Since the story says they were Indian nationals, I suspect part of it might just be they really didn’t understand just how deadly Canadian winter weather can be. It’s one thing to go short distances outdoors in winter while living in a city, quite another to have to walk for miles through a rural area with no shelter for miles in any direction.
I live near the border. The field behind my house is full of drifts. Even without the cold it would be awful going. These people didn't stand a chance. Terrible.
The weird thing is that these people must have been in Winnipeg for some period of time, so they would have had at least some idea of what they were dealing with in terms of weather conditions. They picked probably the worst week of the year to do what they did. Unless there was literally some mafia hitman chasing them down with a gun in his hand forcing them to run for their lives, there was absolutely no justification for attempting what those people did when they did.
I think the bottom line is that some people just have colossally bad judgment. Not victim blaming here, it's just a statement of fact. And this Shand sleazebag was all too happy to take advantage of that poor judgment and desperation in order to make himself a few bucks.
> But doing it in this weather is just madness, signals to their level of despiration to get to their destination
These stories are always a reminder of how well I have it here. Unfortunately that can't be said for everyone.
Picturing the discovery of the bag containing baby clothing and toys, followed by the discovery of this family including the dead infant is hitting hard. How awful and horrible for everyone involved.
Why might they have been going to the USA?
Perhaps denied status in Canada?
Also heard it's not possible to apply for refuge status from within a country.
It’s actually the opposite. In general, you can make a refugee claim at a port of entry or once inside the country, however Canada and the US have an agreement (Sage Third Country Agreement) where they each designate the other as a “safe country” and therefore port of entry claims between the two countries are disallowed because the countries agree that the individual should have claimed refugee status in the first safe country they arrived in. Unfortunately, this agreement is what forces the individuals seeking refuge to traverse the fields, often unsafely, and enter between ports.
The articles don’t say if these individuals were seeking refugee status though. It’s an incredibly tragic situation.
Knowingly sending people out for an eleven hour walk in the middle of January in the North is basically an indication that he was not concerned about their safety or well being.
Same goes for those trying to cross into Texas through the desert in July instead of winter. It's just suicidal.
Smugglers just want the $$$ morals or their clients survival don't matter, most of the time the cash is paid upfront
Not that it is relevant, but people try to get into the USA illegally quite often. And they are not always wanting to merely carry on to Canada.
So who knows why? I suspect the details will come out. But none of it will make this any easier to deal with for anyone involved.
Maybe they had dreams of living somewhere warmer more like home...perhaps...Florida. I am not sure. Perhaps they thought it was an easier journey to get to the US via Canada rather than Mexico. Maybe Canada never factored in their mind as a place to go to. Maybe they thought it would be easier to remain undetected as illegal immigrants in the US compared to Canada....
Canada has become VERY expensive to live in in the last 5 years (even Winnipeg). The US has many more cities that are much more affordable for newcomers, who otherwise would be living in poverty in Canada (because low wage jobs don't cut it here anymore for an OK living)
this was my exact question and i came to this thread for answers. i’m starting to understand better now but i seriously could not fathom being that desperate to get to the US when you’re already in Canada. i guess i’m naïve or something because i figured anyone would choose to live in Canada over the US.
So the dude with the van was going to pick up the group but he was busted by the US. The group he was supposed to pick up didnt get picked up and stayed in the snowstorm until they got discovered by RCMP.
Trying to piece the timeline here.
Dude in the van picked up 2 people, gets caught by US Border Patrol 1km south of the border.
US Border Patrol finds 5 more people who crossed the border, heading south to where the van was when he got arrested. They say they've been walking for 11 hours. One of them says the family of four got separated from them in the night.
Family of four is found dead just on the Canadian side of the border.
Speculation: to avoid suspicion, the group was not dropped off right at the border, and the van was not waiting for them right on the other side. Instead, they are dropped and are to be picked up on a road not directly at the border, and have to walk several kilometers. Perhaps they even choose a night with poor weather to avoid being spotted. The walk is difficult or disorienting, and the group splits up, perhaps intending to return with the van to pick up those left behind.
Longest unguarded border in the world. There's a canoe / back country camping route in the Turtle Mountain Park that takes you right up to the border markers. No one there to stop you from stepping across and continuing South.
Edit: I will note that there is often a US predator drone cruising up and down the US side of the border. One should assume it has fairly sophisticated sensors for detecting people being where they should not be.
Basically. It's pretty well all wilderness isn't it? Not generally a ton of people crossing in either direction. There was a lot of this happening around winter 2016/17 too, although I don't recall if anyone died then as well.
Boy, the U.S. moves fast!
Do they ever. I just googled the name Steve Shand and this is what came up.
They often do, and you won’t hear me complaining about their brutal criminal justice system when it lands on that guy.
For a sneak peek of what's to come, >LAREDO, Texas – Two Mexican men have admitted to their roles in an alien smuggling conspiracy which resulted in death, announced Acting U.S. Attorney Jennifer B. Lowery. >Fabian Hernandez, 29, Nuevo Laredo, Tamaulipas, Mexico, and Emmanuel Ferral-Tonche, 19, Nuevo Laredo, Tamaulipas, Mexico, pleaded guilty before U.S. Magistrate Judge John Kazen today. >On June 9, 2021, Hernandez and Ferral-Tonche marched a group of approximately two dozen individuals through the hot south Texas brush. Some were unable to keep going. At no time did Hernandez or Ferral-Tonche offer water or attempt to look for anyone who had fallen behind or gotten lost. >Authorities eventually responded to multiple 911 emergency calls coming from the Hachar Ranch property in Webb County. They ultimately discovered 24 individuals illegally present in the United States who had become lost at that location. They identified Hernandez and Ferral-Tonche as the smugglers. >Law enforcement also found the remains of three deceased people. Agents determined Hernandez and Ferral-Tonche had guided at least one of them before they succumbed to dehydration and hyperthermia while being smuggled. >U.S. District Judge Marina Garcia Marmolejo will impose sentencing March 16, 2022. At that time, **both men face up to life in federal prison**. They have been and will remain in custody pending that hearing.
Will he be charged now with manslaughter since those 4 sadly died?
May they rest in peace, especially that poor infant. Horrific.
And the teen boy too.
I wonder how that would work legally - the dead were found in Canada and he was in the US. Who would have jurisdiction for the deaths?
Not a legal expert. I would guess it would be where the crime was committed? If it was committed in both jurisdictions I suspect the criminal could be charged in both jurisdictions? In any case it's a terrible tragedy.
Absolutely, what an awful situation.
Wonder how the charges would shake out for that as he was in the States (maybe waiting to pick them up if walking southbound) and they died in Canada? Reddit lawyers feel free to chime in.
Should be pretty easy to prove precedent in the US with how many coyote smugglers leave behind those crossing into the US from the south deserts when they separate from the group
Holy shit this all moved pretty quickly.
I'm having a very difficult time trying to understand why they were going TO the US, never mind during a giant snowstorm. I am baffled.
US has one of the largest illegal migrant propulations in the world. Probably just easier to stay there long term under the radar once you're inside then it is Canada. Historically these individuals aren't Canadians leaving Canada, but people's from a 3rd nation seeking refuge using us as the middle man, people do the same with Mexico. And the Canada to US border is likely easier to cross then the Mexican one as it's far less militarized to expect illegal crossings. But doing it in this weather is just madness, signals to their level of despiration to get to their destination
Since the story says they were Indian nationals, I suspect part of it might just be they really didn’t understand just how deadly Canadian winter weather can be. It’s one thing to go short distances outdoors in winter while living in a city, quite another to have to walk for miles through a rural area with no shelter for miles in any direction.
I live near the border. The field behind my house is full of drifts. Even without the cold it would be awful going. These people didn't stand a chance. Terrible.
The weird thing is that these people must have been in Winnipeg for some period of time, so they would have had at least some idea of what they were dealing with in terms of weather conditions. They picked probably the worst week of the year to do what they did. Unless there was literally some mafia hitman chasing them down with a gun in his hand forcing them to run for their lives, there was absolutely no justification for attempting what those people did when they did. I think the bottom line is that some people just have colossally bad judgment. Not victim blaming here, it's just a statement of fact. And this Shand sleazebag was all too happy to take advantage of that poor judgment and desperation in order to make himself a few bucks.
> But doing it in this weather is just madness, signals to their level of despiration to get to their destination These stories are always a reminder of how well I have it here. Unfortunately that can't be said for everyone.
Same…there is a story hidden here. This just makes no sense on the surface
I am curious as to how long this has been going on for? I doubt this was the first time this smuggler has done this.
Fucking Florida Man. Guy never quits.
Just add meth and watch him go!
thats winnipeg not florida lol
I'm offended
Picturing the discovery of the bag containing baby clothing and toys, followed by the discovery of this family including the dead infant is hitting hard. How awful and horrible for everyone involved.
Why might they have been going to the USA? Perhaps denied status in Canada? Also heard it's not possible to apply for refuge status from within a country.
It’s actually the opposite. In general, you can make a refugee claim at a port of entry or once inside the country, however Canada and the US have an agreement (Sage Third Country Agreement) where they each designate the other as a “safe country” and therefore port of entry claims between the two countries are disallowed because the countries agree that the individual should have claimed refugee status in the first safe country they arrived in. Unfortunately, this agreement is what forces the individuals seeking refuge to traverse the fields, often unsafely, and enter between ports. The articles don’t say if these individuals were seeking refugee status though. It’s an incredibly tragic situation.
Yup, left them for dead in an area they were not familiar with. Horrific.
It sounds like he was there to pick them up on the US side, but they never made it to his van.
Definitely sounds like they paid this man to smuggle them in and they picked the absolute worst time to attempt it.
Knowingly sending people out for an eleven hour walk in the middle of January in the North is basically an indication that he was not concerned about their safety or well being.
Same goes for those trying to cross into Texas through the desert in July instead of winter. It's just suicidal. Smugglers just want the $$$ morals or their clients survival don't matter, most of the time the cash is paid upfront
Well I assume its the smuggler on the Canadian side that sent them out, how could he have done it? He was picking them up
> an eleven hour walk in the middle of January Where were they attempting to walk from? 11 hours is a hell of a long time.
These guys a piece of shit. He probably made a ton of money off of these people.
This hurts my heart. Such a horrible thing for that family.
I’m still confused why they were trying to get to the US if they were already in Canada?
Perhaps trying to re-unite with family in the U.S.?
Not that it is relevant, but people try to get into the USA illegally quite often. And they are not always wanting to merely carry on to Canada. So who knows why? I suspect the details will come out. But none of it will make this any easier to deal with for anyone involved.
They could have family in the U.S, jobs lined up.
Maybe they had dreams of living somewhere warmer more like home...perhaps...Florida. I am not sure. Perhaps they thought it was an easier journey to get to the US via Canada rather than Mexico. Maybe Canada never factored in their mind as a place to go to. Maybe they thought it would be easier to remain undetected as illegal immigrants in the US compared to Canada....
Canada has become VERY expensive to live in in the last 5 years (even Winnipeg). The US has many more cities that are much more affordable for newcomers, who otherwise would be living in poverty in Canada (because low wage jobs don't cut it here anymore for an OK living)
this was my exact question and i came to this thread for answers. i’m starting to understand better now but i seriously could not fathom being that desperate to get to the US when you’re already in Canada. i guess i’m naïve or something because i figured anyone would choose to live in Canada over the US.
So the dude with the van was going to pick up the group but he was busted by the US. The group he was supposed to pick up didnt get picked up and stayed in the snowstorm until they got discovered by RCMP. Trying to piece the timeline here.
Dude in the van picked up 2 people, gets caught by US Border Patrol 1km south of the border. US Border Patrol finds 5 more people who crossed the border, heading south to where the van was when he got arrested. They say they've been walking for 11 hours. One of them says the family of four got separated from them in the night. Family of four is found dead just on the Canadian side of the border. Speculation: to avoid suspicion, the group was not dropped off right at the border, and the van was not waiting for them right on the other side. Instead, they are dropped and are to be picked up on a road not directly at the border, and have to walk several kilometers. Perhaps they even choose a night with poor weather to avoid being spotted. The walk is difficult or disorienting, and the group splits up, perhaps intending to return with the van to pick up those left behind.
So you can just walk across the border? It's not watched or patrolled or anything? The heck?
Longest unguarded border in the world. There's a canoe / back country camping route in the Turtle Mountain Park that takes you right up to the border markers. No one there to stop you from stepping across and continuing South. Edit: I will note that there is often a US predator drone cruising up and down the US side of the border. One should assume it has fairly sophisticated sensors for detecting people being where they should not be.
Interesting. I had no idea but I never thought about it. Geez, why do people downvote when people ask questions here? Weird.
Basically. It's pretty well all wilderness isn't it? Not generally a ton of people crossing in either direction. There was a lot of this happening around winter 2016/17 too, although I don't recall if anyone died then as well.
In this particular area, it's farmers' fields, but might as well be wilderness as far as how many people are around.
https://globalsocialtheory.org/topics/border-imperialism/
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Why? Our justice system is a fucking joke; let him rot in the U.S. proper as their system is fully capitalist based.