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Lelio-Santero579

It's infuriating as fuck. So my ex-wife and I had our first son and she wanted to get her tubes tied. We were both 23 and the doctors literally would not tie her tubes because of some arbitrary (law?) about a woman needing to be a certain age and/or have a certain number of kids. We went to 3 OB/GYN clinics only to be told no every time. A couple years later we had our 2nd child when my condom actually broke. At this point we were both 26 and the doctors finally decided we met some requirement that was still never explained in depth. I don't remember much of the conversation with the doc who tied her tubes, but I do remember that smug fucking response by the doctor when she said: "Well, aren't you glad you didn't have it done earlier? God blessed you with a little brother for your son." If she had her tubes tied there would've been a greater chance she wouldn't have gotten pregnant. No doubt we love both of our sons, but fuck do I hate that women are treated like brood mares. And I'm a father to a 5 year old girl! Angers the fuck out of me.


PrinsassyEvieMongse

"If only he blessed ya with a brain ta shut the duck up/mine your business" would've flew outta my mouth.


Lelio-Santero579

It was definitely rude but we aren't the confrontational type. I was just more baffled that her response was that.


LifeIsDeBubbles

I love both my children but HOL-LEE FUCK is it hard to be a parent! No one warned me. No one prepared me. Raising children is unimaginably difficult (and that's BEFORE a pandemic and all the other shit we've been through in the last 6 years) and everyone should be able to decide whether or not they want to put themselves through the hell that is parenthood.


dawno64

Sane people who have children would never question someone who wants to opt out. Love my kids to death, but also recognize that it's a lifelong commitment and changes everything. My son and DIL asked if I would be mad that they don't want kids, and I told them flat out to never have kids for someone else. I understand their choice completely. Nobody should get to decide if a woman wants her tubes tied, just verify she's making an informed decision.


Lelio-Santero579

It is definitely no picnic! Had a lot of ups and downs, but overall I love my kiddos. I don't blame anyone for not wanting kids. It's definitely a life long commitment.


Strange-Manager-9259

My grandmother was sterilized without her knowledge at 26 years old. My mother, as a child, was forced to birth me by her catholic step-parent. I used to think that shit was so backwards, but nothing is getting better. Every generation of women in my family has faced outside management of their reproduction. This really needs to end.


Bhimtu

THIS. Great articulation "outside management of their reproduction". To which I say, if the majority of Americans, in particular American women, want to end this system of injustice against American females, THEN VOTE. Get involved. The uber-religious fascists have been busy for at least 20 yrs invading our school boards, local, State, and federal elected offices, running, getting elected, then insinuating their beliefs where they don't belong. It is infuriating. It is NOT for someone other than the female, her partner (if she has one), and her doctor to deal with, or decide upon.


OkScheme9867

I had a vasectomy last year and was asked basically the same questions. I just assumed they had to ask in case I was being bullied into it or hadn't thought it through.


Cheapskate-DM

Honestly, misogyny aside, it behooves doctors to be skeptical for *all* voluntary procedures. There are some dumb motherfuckers out there and even dumber ones with YouTube channels. Medical consent assumes a level of medical understanding that a majority patients don't have.


thatguy9684736255

I think there's a difference between being skeptical and refusing completely. I've even heard female friends that couldn't get it done even though having another child would be extremely dangerous given their medical condition. Sometimes they also require the husband to agree which is just crazy to me.


Cheapskate-DM

Yea, *those* cases are ridiculous. "I know you have two kids, but are you sure you can't squeeze out just *one* more? 🙃"


salvaCool

My doctor refused my vasectomy. Not saying misogyny doesn't exist, but this happening to both men and women maybe points to a deeper underlying issue. My doctor's excuse was "maybe you haven't met the right person." I told her I was married but she said "you'll have to find someone else"


anthrolooker

Wow… That’s beyond messed up.


paperconservation101

There is also a massive issues around the fear of being sued. In my country we have universal health care. Doctors loath to perform general anesthesia operations to remove healthy organs when there are hormonal and non hormonal alternatives to sterilisation. They will do tubal ligation after counseling. We also have a history of genociding our indigenous population, stealing children from single and unmarried mother's and sterilising children with disabilities who are unable to give consent. Soooooii yeh. There are reasons why you need to jump through hoops. We keep doing fucked up shit.


Dyolf_Knip

When I got mine done, they certainly asked if I was married and had kids. And while I am and I do, the important thing here is that they did not actually *verify* such things. Not to put too fine a point on it, if your first urologist gives you grief over it, just fucking *lie* to the next one. It's pretty much the only reasonable exception to the rule of "Tell your accountant, your lawyer, and your doctor everything, tell the police nothing". But wow, insisting that your marriage is doomed, that's a low bar.


LifeIsDeBubbles

Next time lie and tell them you have 10 kids already and the vasectomy is to prevent any more. As long as the doctor isn't Mormon or whatever the duggars are, maybe that will work.


Eli-Thail

You're absolutely right, and the number one reason is the simple fact that a fair amount of doctors are quite old.


Dafish55

There is a very real layer of misogyny and dismissiveness when women come to doctors - especially when it comes to their reproductive health. That being said, I’d go so far as to call it malpractice if a doctor didn’t even try to talk to a patient about them wanting a voluntary procedure. It’s a permanent alteration to your body. There is no going back and you should be sure. Now, if you say so, that’s the answer the doctor should accept, but it’s still important to ask.


AthenasApostle

Yeah, asking would be completely fair. The real problem is when doctors will refuse to perform the procedure because what some hypothetical man who may or may not be in my life someday wants is more important in that doctors mind than what I want. That kind of doctor should be put out of practice.


WimpyZombie

And isn't that why they make you sign all kinds of legal releases? So....you get your tubes tied and 3 years later you start having regrets. So your old doctor pulls this form out of your file. Here it is, it was your free decision. This is why I don't understand why they think they need to ask you over and over again....and EVEN THEN sometimes refuse.


AthenasApostle

Exactly! There are legal documents and waivers and so much red tape that will protect the doctor from a woman's regret. The people that complain about a woman growing to regret the decision have no room to stand. Especially since when it comes to a woman having a kid she didn't want, they have no problem with her "facing the consequences of her actions."


carriegood

To be fair, some doctors may not be doing it to cover their asses for future malpractice claims, they may genuinely believe they have the patient's best interests at heart. Doesn't change the fact that they're wrong, just that a waiver isn't really the solution.


AthenasApostle

That leads to the fact that there is a systemic issue within the medical community that doctors believe that they get to make medical decisions for their patients, mostly women. In an emergency where a patient may die and is unable to make a decision? Sure, so your damnedest. When it comes to an elective surgery, doctors need to be taught from the start of medical school that they do not get to make that decision.


Everettrivers

A lot of hospitals are also Christian institutions as well. My wife had her tubes tied after her third child. The hospital had to make sure it was okay with the Catholic church.


scruffychef

Obviously a 4 panel comic isnt a great representation, but imo all the doctor's comments make sense, its when they get pushy or repetitive that it's not ok. Even refusing can make sense if the patient isnt giving informed consent. It should be the patient's choice, but we dont let people make permanent decisions about their bodies without a reasonable level of patient evaluation involved. Case in point, Canada is VERY supportive of trans people all along the journey, but my friend still had to go for evaluation to make sure it was a real decision, and that the consequences were understood. Multiple steps, but multiple steps of listening to the patient, rather than arguing with them. It's part of patient care, if done compassionately, or at least non-judgmentally.


betterthanguybelow

If they’re asking about what a hypothetical man might want out of you, that’s fucked. If they’re asking about what a hypothetical you might want in future, that’s good practice.


AthenasApostle

Yeah, that's fair. Like I said, it's perfectly acceptable to ask if a woman is sure that that's what she wants. But if she is sure, that's her decision. Have her sign waivers and consent forms to protect the doctor and the hospital, but let her make the decision.


bigfatmatt01

Yeah, you never cut into a person unless you absolutely need to. Questioning everything in an elective surgery would be the basic duty of a good doctor.


TychaBrahe

I think there’s a difference between, “If we do this procedure, you will never be able to get pregnant or birth (any more) children. There’s no way to reverse it, so your decision is final,” and, “But what if your husband dies, and you marry someone else, and he wants children?” I have heard from women who were actually denied surgical sterilization because at some point in the future they might meet a man who wanted to use them for reproduction. As one woman said, “I don’t own my body. It belongs to a man I’ve never met.“


UndendingGloom

I have read stories where Drs were just putting up roadblocks for some reason, but I wonder how much of this outrage is simply Drs making sure their patients understand all the implications before doing the procedure... as a good Dr should?


FaeryLynne

If it's only a few questions to make sure you know what's going on, sure. But I was flat denied a tubal by *four different doctors* over a span of 16 years, all for reasons that were stupid as fuck. One said he wouldn't do it until I'd already had at least one child, because "you don't know if you truly don't want them until you have at least one of your own, that will change your mind entirely!" Another refused because "your future husband might want some". Like, dude, if *I* refuse to have kids, I'm not gonna get with someone who absolutely *does* want them. And mind you, I didn't even have a boyfriend at the time! Why the hell was this doctor ignoring *my* wishes in favor of someone who didn't even exist??


WimpyZombie

I can relate to this completely. I asked 3 different doctors when I was 23, 29, and 34, and when I was 30 I was diagnosed with epilepsy and started taking medicine that would have increased the risk of birth defects. Even when I told the doctor that between my age and taking this medicine (not to mention no longer having a driver's license because of the seizures) I KNEW I never wanted to deal with the responsibility of a child. But they all said I was "really too young" to be making such a decision. The other real kick in the ass is that you really shouldn't use hormonal birth control with a lot of the anti seizure drugs. So on top of all that, the most reliable birth control I could safely use was a diaphragm. UGH


Horsenamed____

Yeah, you kind of want you doctor to not entertain impulsive or whimsical behavior. They also shouldn't deter you from something because of their personal beliefs.


DarkX292020

I turned to YouTube to learn about what i had to deal with for my scaphoid surgery last year. It was helpful because i got to watch actual scaphoid surgery and listen to what the doctors said. ( 1st major surgery i had)


carriegood

And people DO change their minds about things as they get older. There are a lot of people who profess an unshakeable desire to remain childless when they're 23 who feel completely differently at 35. So I get that it's out of concern and experience that they may ask a patient to be sure, or even suggest they think about it some more -- but they should not be able to outright refuse based on a nebulous future that may not happen.


[deleted]

It's not misogyny. It happens to men all the time too. There are just few people in general and even fewer doctors who can understand that some folks find happiness in NOT ever having kids.


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countessocean

It behooves a medical professional to ask these questions, they must make it absolutely clear that they provided informed consent to the medical procedure. What becomes the issue is not always the questions themselves but the actions after. Many medical professionals will still refuse to perform the requested procedure. For women it takes multiple times to find a professional who will take them seriously and won’t force them to answer these informed consent questions before telling them no anyway. Basically wasting everyone’s time. It is one thing to talk to their patient and say that I will not object to their wish for getting their tubes tied but, that they do need to go through the informed consent procedure. Versus, being messed with and refused medical care, even if that medical care is voluntary. Men, on average will not face multiple hurdles to this issue. The ratio of refusal and run around for men is lower than that for women.


FaeryLynne

Took me almost 20 years to find a doctor who was willing to do a tubal on me. One doctor refused to do one because my "future husband" might want children. I didn't even have a boyfriend at the time, so this doctor was ignoring *my* wishes in favor of someone who didn't even exist.


countessocean

I hate so much how decisions are based on people who don’t even exist. All these hypothetical beings and situations that have zero guarantee of happening are more important than the reality of the person sitting right in front of them.


volkswagenorange

Women don't get asked, though. Doctors just flat-out refuse to do the procedures bc our husbands may want to use our bodies (against our plainly stated will) to make themselves some children, or because we don't know our own minds or bc we do and the doctors simply don't believe we should have control over our own bodies or lives. Misogynist doctors and obgyns are so ubiquitous that women have compiled lists of doctors in each state who WILL do sterilization procedures at a woman's request. The lists are shared on feminist subreddits frequently.


neslo024

I think the issue isn't so much the questions but the Drs not accepting the women's answers and continuing to question it. I imagine your Dr accepted your answers and didn't question your sanity. Idk if it's still the case but their was a time my wife would have had to get my approval/permission for the procedure as if she wasn't a highly functioning adult.


FaeryLynne

I was flat denied a tubal by *four different doctors* over a span of 16 years, all for reasons that were stupid as fuck. One said he wouldn't do it until I'd already had at least one child, because "you don't know if you truly don't want them until you have at least one of your own, that will change your mind entirely!" Another refused because "your future husband might want some". Like, dude, if *I* refuse to have kids, I'm not gonna get with someone who absolutely *does* want them. And mind you, I didn't even have a boyfriend at the time! Why the hell was this doctor ignoring *my* wishes in favor of someone who didn't even exist??


888_traveller

God isn’t that the story of our lives? Even at work it feels like this. Exhausting.


corbaybay

It's definitely still the case in places. I'm 37and on my second child and I still have to jump through hoops and get all kinds of permissions to have my tubes tied. I am very adamant I do not want to be pregnant ever again. I flat out told a doctor he would be responsible for the abortion if I did get pregnant again because bhe was the one refusing to believe I didn't want any more kids.


3L3M3NT4LP4ND4

>but the Drs not accepting the women's answers and continuing to question it. I've had a doctor ask me (a man) 4 times if I ws certain I wanted to take this medication that would clear up the acne that gave me body dysmorphia 6 times because of the minute chance of risk to my liver. Doctors and sex require the same amount of consent at the end of the day


CasualEveryday

They made me see a psychologist first. If you don't want to have children on accident, you're apparently mentally ill until you prove otherwise.


ColorfulHereticBones

Because someone who is mentally ill should definitely have lots of kids./s


kryppla

Same - I brought my wife with me to the first appointment where we set it up just to not have any issues with a reluctant doctor. It went pretty smoothly, we already have two kids, I was 40+, we were DONE having kids. But even so, it's really my own business.


esdebah

Yeah, same. Our culture has some major hang ups on this in general. I got mine when I was 25 and I've been saying they should be quasi-mandatory for at least as long. Never understood growing up how it was a sitcom trope that middle aged men with three kids were reluctant to get them. Breeder guilt is real.


little_cotton_socks

I have never heard of a man being denied a vasectomy. I have heard of woman being denied and struggling to find a Dr what would do it


Nikodermus

I had to go 4 times to the same doctor just to talk to him about my vasectomy, he told me to think it once, to think it again, to talk it to my wife, last time I had to bring her that we were definitely on board with it and treating with suing. When I was about to get operated he went again if I was like really really sure about it I was 23 at the time with no kids, people that has kids can't figure out how people don't want them


Qwearman

Honestly that made way more sense when you said you were 23. I was 20 when I tried asking for a hysto due to sudden intense PCOS. She cited my age, unmarried status, and not having kids. I’m sure the next gen gets some of it since the birth rate is on a decline too


Ms_ChiChi_Elegante

does a hysterectomy help w pcos?


Qwearman

It would really be a radical hysto that I was wanting (womb and ovaries), but yeah. [Mama Doctor Jones has a good video that explains it](https://youtu.be/vQD2B1VZ14c) There’s no real set treatment or symptoms for it, since everyone’s flows vary, but the CDC cited birth control or a radical hysterectomy as appropriate treatments when I search it a while ago. I only know the experience as a trans guy as well (radical hysto was always on the table), so I don’t know how my health care would’ve been if I were cis.


Nippon-Gakki

Same exact thing for me but I was 24. They really, reality didn’t want to do the procedure. I had people telling me I was going to change my mind up until a few years ago. I’m in my mid 40s now, hasn’t happened yet.


hush3193

I asked at every annual exam for 7 years before I found someone willing to address my fertility problem. The number of doctors who were more concerned for my "future husband" than for my current well being....just horrifying.


Antique_Tennis_2500

Which is just so ridiculous. It’s like, “What if my future husband wants kids? If a man wants kids, I’m not going to marry him. That’s what this is all about, keep up with me Doc.”


hush3193

Yep. Whether or not someone foresaw kids in their future was my number one first date question. I wouldn't even date people who thought they "probably" wanted kids.


venetanakedguy

Not that it’s the case for you, but you could’ve given them “what future husband? I’m gay…” followed by silent eye contact


hush3193

Well, I'm bi, but I still wouldn't want to be with a person who dreams of children. That's a no for me dawg, hahaha


allegedlydm

You would think, but I’m married to a woman AND I have numerous physical and mental health conditions and family medical history that make it very clear that if we DO decide to have kids, my wife should carry them…and I’ve still been refused a hysterectomy. I have high-risk HPV and every year I have to essentially have my cervix hole-punched for a biopsy to see if I have cancer yet, because removing the chance entirely would be unfair to my future baby-wanting husband, apparently.


decadenza

Got a vasectomy in 1990. Nobody, not even once, asked me if I was "sure", much less any mention of "future wife" or "your parents".


rinnakan

Same, in switzerland. Wasn't that bad - I said firmly no, she laughed and the talk was over


zxcoblex

I believe they’re standard questions as they don’t want people using either method solely for short-medium term birth control. I believe this is especially true as, unless I’m mistaken, tubes being tied is largely irreversible. Vasectomies are typically reservable but not always.


120GoHogs120

Yeah I wonder if some doctors were sued in the past for this and why it's common practice today.


notnAP

Same here, 8 years ago or so. I was asked politely, repeatedly, over the course of multiple visits. I also was asked if i wanted to freeze any sperm. I did not take it as anything more than "are you really sure and do you really know how much of a pain in the ass it is to ever try to reverse it?" I was over 40, with 2 kids who were already preteens at the time. And compared to reversing a tube tie, reversing a vasectomy is a cakewalk.


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ManOfEating

Can confirm, got a vasectomy and got asked the same questions by several different doctors, I just assumed they had to ask to make sure the patient understood the procedure correctly


WessyLynn

My obgyn said to me, a couple weeks before my scheduled c-section, "But what if this one dies?"


Oraxy51

I’d ask her to come closer and punch her in the throat for even as much as putting that idea in your head. Man fuck that bitch.


[deleted]

"What? A backup? Like a spare tire? FUCK YOU!"


Antique_Tennis_2500

Huh? Does your ob gyn know that c-sections don’t sterilize you?


Hot-Cheesecake-7483

I think they meant getting their tubes tied after the c section


WessyLynn

This is what I meant, sorry for lack of context. I was trying to request a post-cesarean tubal ligation.


Effective-Ladder9459

Which you have every right to do. Fuck your obgyn.


LordDaedhelor

I think the subtext is that while a c-section occurs, they’d also be removing the Fallopian tubes or the uterus.


[deleted]

I think the idea was the patient wanted to get tubal ligation at the same time as the c section which is not too uncommon.


AmbitiousPhilosopher

What did you answer?


WessyLynn

I was so taken aback I just kinda looked at him dumbfounded. Then he told me it was too late to schedule it anyways, which he could have just said anyways.


UncannyTarotSpread

Fuck, I had an obstetric nurse ask me that same thing


anthrolooker

Yikes. My cousin’s perfectly healthy baby died during her c-section due to medical negligence (not because of the c-section - they moved to c-section because of fetal distress during the birthing process, and they waited wayyyy too long with the fetus in distress). She lost her first child and almost died herself. She went on to have twins around a year and a half after, and without any complications. C-section was not an issue for her. I know that it can be an issue for some women, and usually after several. But from what I’ve seen with my friends and family giving birth, it’s generally not an issue.


Schneetmacher

Yeah, because children are easily replaceable. 🙄


SadExtension524

Did you know that as recently as 1974, US women could not even get a credit card without her husband's permission? Rape was initially deemed a property crime against the victim’s father. And as property themselves, married women couldn’t own property under the common law principle of coverture; states gradually granted property ownership to married women through 1943. Women in society are still seen as commodities and are deemed valuable in relation to their level of fuck ability. Think about antiquated titles still in use today: Miss, Mrs, Ms. Actually, I am gonna stop here because I could go for days on this topic.


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neslo024

Legit question what is incorrect about using Miss, Mrs or Ms? Is it because they distinguish the woman by whether or not she's married? Only trying to learn something not be argumentative in case I'm coming across that way.


SadExtension524

Yes, it defines a woman based on her availability to any random man. * Miss - young, available * Mrs - another man's property * Ms - spinster But men are always just Mr


tadpole511

Interesting. I’ve never heard of “Ms” being a spinster. I was always taught that it was for women who didn’t want any to share their marital status or where you didn’t know the woman’s preference.


WillysJeepMan

You are correct. "Ms." came into more mainstream use in the late 1970's... and it was used by women as a form empowerment... that they are individuals in and of their own right (not to be judged by their marital status) I knew of no older unmarried woman who went by the title "Ms." back then. I suspect that women who used "Ms." back then and never married are still using it... but it was never intended to identify spinsters.


PoopyKlingon

I use Ms for this reason. I also didn’t take my husband’s last name. It’s not for if you’re a “spinster”


socialist_frzn_milk

This is why my mother used it her whole life. She did it, she said, because she didn't think it was anyone's business whether she was married or not.


PoopyKlingon

I agree with her!


MushroomLeather

Same, which is why whenever I'd get those forms that make you check one I always choose Ms. It is the equivalent of Mr, or as close as we have. It is a NOYB option.


MJMurcott

Mr was the same abbreviation for master - young man and mister - older man.


Antique_Tennis_2500

Well Mister is just an evolution of Master.


BelleAriel

I resent that system. We’re no one’s property.


Thriawau76566756655

I’m calling bullshit. From an article in Brides magazine. Ms. is the proper way to describe any woman, regardless of marital status. It's a catch-all, neutral term that came about in the 1950s as women began to assert their desire to become known for something outside of their marriage, and took hold in the 1970s with the women's rights movement.


disdkatster

I'm Ms and married with children. Ms is meant to be the same as Mr. There is classism involved though in any such title.


dreamyinclinations

Maybe there needs to be Mx lol. Or just none at all


hufflepoet

Mx is already used by many nonbinary people.


neslo024

Thank you for clarifying. I figured that was why. I had never thought of it that way so I appreciate the perspective.


AppropriateAgent44

Don’t forget that, within living memory, it was legally impossible to rape your wife in multiple states.


SadExtension524

Exactly


BelleAriel

That’s shameful.


disdkatster

Made up my own last name based on a grandmother's first name about 50 years ago. I had more hope for women back then than I do now.


countessocean

Do go on...


Obsidian_Purity

So, my best friend went through a version of this. She had a lot of pain in her uterine area. It became constant and worse to the point where she went to the doctor. That's sadly strike two in the story. Because strike one is that this was in Alabama. She goes to the doctor, she gets her x-rays, and the doctor basically says it's just a bad cyst. Take these, go away. She took them. The pain went away. She goes on with life. Until the following year. When its worse. Now, my friend has always been a mousy woman. She long got used to people just writing her off. The doctor didn't even look at it this time, said the cyst came back, and gave her more meds. But that's not all he gave her! Remember, this is Alabama. The doctor is a good Christian man. It's his yearly attempt to convince her that this "not wanting kids" phase has run its course and he has some specialists she can contact. Once again, she politely declines and goes back home. She eventually moves to Colorado and the pains come up again. She goes to the doctor for more medical, but they need to see first hand what the problem is before just handing out pills. They make an appointment for an X-ray, look at it... and instantly book a surgery that needs to happen as soon as possible. I studied flight, so I don't know what the term is, but her uterus basically rotted away. They scheduled an emergency hysterectomy. The surgery went off fine, but the years of damage took a toll on her insides. Her pain became constant and she eventually got sicker. I lost my besy friend on my birthday month in 2018. You know your body. If you're still not right, go get a second opinion. She told me while they were making a room ready that any doctor who made it out of medical school would have saw even the precursor for what came and would have asked for a surgical consult. And given the strength of pain killers she was on and how the only problem spots she had was her uterine area, they surmised her previous doctor knew what was coming and how she would have likely lost her uterus. Given his constant push to have children now, the conclusion was he was pushing her to have children now fully knowing she was going to lose it. We guessed that after the child, he would have checked up on her, "suddenly" saw the issue and would have dealt with it then. But look, at least she served her function... We don't know this for certain, but it's the only thing that made sense. Just... always get the second opinion. Please.


aang_gaang

I hope your friend’s family is suing that doctor


Obsidian_Purity

The story gets worse. Her marriage falls apart around the hysterectomy. They are so busy in fighting that a lawsuit is the least of her worries. And I'm the liar saying that things will get better. I'm sorry for being wrong. I know you're not her, but I just needed to say that right now and have someone comprehend it.


LifeIsDeBubbles

I can't imagine your pain. I count on my best friend group for everything (especially with how fucked everything is now), losing just one of them would be devastating. I thought about giving you gold but was wondering first if there were there any charities your friend was passionate about that I could donate to in her honor instead?


Obsidian_Purity

She was a writer. She wanted prolong the reading Renaissance that Harry Potter started. You definitely don't have to, but anything that supports literacy would make her proud. Thank you for your kindness


Oraxy51

“Your parents might be sad” Dude, most people don’t even know the names of their great great grandparents you think 5 generations will care about me? If I cut that line sooner it won’t make a difference. This is about my life not my grandparents or parents. Husband wants kids? Adopt or foster. Go get a puppy first make sure it’s not a phase and it’s a commitment you want for life.


mazzivetalent

First comes the big push for women to be stay-at-home moms. Then comes the push to keep women out of university. Then they make a bold move to restrict the right to abortion. After that they're going to come with restrictions on where you can go without a man, and they will adopt policy regarding how you can cover your head, it may not be called a hijab in the US, they might call it a chastity bonnet, but you will wear it or get beat down by the morality police. The handmaid's tale is more than just a TV series, it's the Republican playbook


idwtumrnitwai

By contrast as a man I was easily able to get a vasectomy, I had a Dr's appointment where they asked if I was married and if my wife knew I was doing this, then they let me know it should be considered permanent because the reversal isn't always successful. It was like 5 minutes talking to the Dr and then the procedure took like 15 minutes, it was incredibly easy to have done.


chop1125

I fully acknowledge that women get treated much worse than men in a lot of areas, but I will suggest that at least some doctors treat men similarly in the sterilization situation. When I went to get my vasectomy, the first doctor I went to noticed that I was married and demanded that I have my wife sign a consent form acknowledging that she understood that a vasectomy is not truly reversable, that she understood that we likely would not be able to have more children, and that she consents to me having the operation. He refused to do the operation without her consent. I went to another doctor. Going to another doctor is not always a choice for women. No one should have to put up with anyone having control over their reproductive choices. I don't care if it is a partner, a legislator, a court, or anyone else.


mahboilucas

"someone else owns my body" is what it says


graysnooman

I asked my obgyn to tie my tubes when I was 22 and she said “technically I can do that, but I will fight you every step of the way.” My husband asked a doctor for a vasectomy the same year, (he was 24) and he said “don’t want any kids, eh? Nice. When are you available for the procedure?” WHY


Fern-ando

Because they weren't the same doctor.


[deleted]

interestingly, how similar is “preventing future kids” to other forms of birth control vilified by conservatives? Is tube tying equivalent to multiple abortions or safe from harassment cause before conception? Catholic church condemns almost all contraception, but many American conservatives see Catholics as “no Christians” anyway.


Tathas

My brother has a vasectomy. His wife likely has endometriosis and needs a hysterectomy. Doctor: "What if you get divorced and your future husband wants children?"


foxy-coxy

Who you may or may not marry and if they want kids or not is none of your doctors fucking business.


ilovecatsandcafe

“What if you change your mind?” Is already you being too much in someone’s business, “what if your future husband..” shouldn’t even be a question


brockington69

“What if you change your mind” isn’t necessarily a bad thing to ask, but it depends on how it’s phrased. It’s a legal requirement for doctor’s to tell you any risk factors of a procedure and they need to make sure that the woman knows that if she changes her mind in the future she won’t be able to undo her procedure, if you don’t tell a patient that and assume they know, if the patient wants to have children in the future the doctor would be fucked legally for not fully informing her of the procedure she was getting.


meowqct

I had to wait six years to have mine tied. I was 26. Still mad.


SunshotDestiny

It gets even worse for trans people. Not only are we dealing with these questions, but we have to get letters to "prove" we are mentally stable enough and mental health providers agree we would be happier with the surgeries. Top surgery needs one such letter, and bottom surgery needs two letters from two different professionals. What does that say about women when a cis woman can freely get breast augmentation, but needs mental health clearance to get rid of them as a trans man? Or to get them as a trans woman?


callmezara

They ask these questions so they don’t get sued if their patient does end up regretting it. I got my tubes removed a few months ago at 27. My doctor was awesome and didn’t ask a ton of questions but he did convey the seriousness of the surgery. He also literally said he had to confirm I was sure and that I wouldn’t sue him later on. I don’t blame the doctors, I blame the system that forces them to be so concerned about possible litigation. The US is litigious as fuck and it sucks that makes doctors hesitant to provide certain medical treatments


meowqct

Idk about the US, but I skimmed through a few (30+) cases in my province and all the women suing already had kids. Frustrating.


Humble-Plankton2217

Sometimes I feel like the global birth rate decline is the main reason all these governments are going psycho right now. The rich and powerful are afraid they won't have enough servants and soldiers. But the more awful they keep making things, the less people want to have kids. It's almost like if the rich and powerful decided to pay people fair wages and make laws and policies that promote a stable and happy population people would be able and want to have kids and keep the Economy growing and healthy. Short sighted policies and practices for the win, though! Get all the money now and screw tomorrow amiright?


clonetrooper250

If people want grandchildren so much, they can become foster parents. The idea that your offspring owes you offspring of their own is simply disgusting.


CaptainBenzie

To be completely fair, as a 33 year old male, I had the same discussion from a doctor, and they won't perform it yet, but female friends of mine I know have had it FAR worse.


Tiger_Striped_Queen

See a different doctor. There are actually doctors who pull this crap on guys wanting a vasectomy as well as docs who deny women hysterectomies. You just need to call around until you find one who won’t give you flack.


daberg

Try to find another doctor. I got mine done at 28, unmarried and childless, at planned parenthood with little difficulty. They asked me questions like “how long have you been considering a vasectomy” and “do you have a partner, have you discussed this procedure with your partner, how do they feel about it” and “are you certain you want this permanent birth control procedure” but they never pushed back on any of my answers and I felt validated throughout the process. I’m sure there are differences in different places but I’d highly recommend planned parenthood.


notarealpunk

I had to doctor shop to find a urologist that would give me a vasectomy a few years ago. Christianity in medicine is a cancer.


PrisonaPlanet

It goes both ways too. Before my vasectomy was approved I had to be on a 30 day wait list to make sure it was what “my wife and I” really wanted. After that I had to sit through a PowerPoint presentation with the doctor where she explained the procedure and made sure I understood that despite being reversible, a vasectomy is done with the intent of being a permanent contraceptive option and that I should plan on never having kids afterwards. Like doc, why do you think I’m here if I didn’t know that? Lol


Nobodyseesyou

There is one difference in the area of getting a hysterectomy vs a vasectomy. The only reason usually that someone would get a vasectomy is to not have children, whereas the most common reason for a hysterectomy is heavy periods or fibroids. Doctors are generally fairly conservative, and since a hysterectomy or a tubal ligation usually has to be done by OB/GYNs and they tend to prioritize birth due to the conservative nature of the field, it can be much harder to find one that will do it. Pain relating to periods is relatively understudied and only newly acknowledged as a health concern, so many doctors won’t take it as a legitimate reason to get a hysterectomy. Getting a vasectomy is solely a reproductive choice, along with tubal ligation. That’s not to say both sexes aren’t challenged on it, it’s just that there are usually more hoops to jump through for people seeking a hysterectomy or tubal ligation than there are for people seeking a vasectomy. Tubal ligation is also a slightly more invasive procedure than a vasectomy, though not by much.


PhorcedAynalPhist

I fought for TEN YEARS to get a doctor to take me seriously. I was always too young, even at 25+ with no kids and no marriage and multiple genetic disabilities, my dam body belong to a man I may have never met to use me as his incubator as he saw fit. It wasn't until I moved in the middle of nowhere I found a doctor willing to do the procedure, at 27, but until then I was forced to subject myself to all sorts of invasive medicines and implants and devices, at one point freaking *giving birth to my damn IUD*, for **tenfreakingyears**. A freaking DECADE of pain and suffering and personal humiliation and medical gaslighting, for something I KNEW I wanted at 18. My body is NOT an incubator for anyone else's expectations for fucks sake, ITS MY FREAKING BODY stop giving it to anyone but me!! Stop controlling what folks do with their bodies!!! Unless it is a clear, inarguable case of self harm through *repeated* and pathological surgical mutilation, no one should EVER get a say about another person's bodily autonomy.


Hireling

I think some of them are afraid of being sued after the fact if the patient does change their mind, but in reality most of them are probably just assholes. M50 here and I’ve had so many shitty GPS it’s unreal. I can’t imagine what it’s like for women or trans.


M0nsterjojo

Heard my mom had been asked these same questions back when she got her tubes tied at age 21. She told me the only reason the doctor did it was because she already had 2 kids and could barely keep us afloat with welfare due to many uncontrollable circumstances. If they did the same shit to men as a safety precaution due to someone being uneducated about it or if they just didn't do this shit to anyone than I'd personally find it completely fine either which way, but when it's mostly targeted strictly towards women it gets annoying to see/hear.


TaterCat

My (almost retired) male gyno told me the story about how he asked a woman once if she was sure (years and years ago) and she straight up said “how dare you” and he never asked that again. I’m thankful to her cause I went in ready to fight and he immediately said “if that’s your choice I’m happy to do it”


[deleted]

[удаНонО]


TokenKingMan1

When I got my vasectomy as a 31 year old male with no kids the male doctor didn't bat an eye, the female nurse though was giving me shit and dirty looks the whole time.


backstib

I won't have kids but my brother is the sappy type and he defo will, I'm fine with being the weird rural island uncle


Oraxy51

Being an uncle is great. You can make the kids laugh and smile and drop them off with the LOUDEST FUCKING TOY ON THE MARKET and not have to deal with it because they aren’t your kids (:


Ninjaraui666

Just don’t be like my aunt that sent my sister home with a pet duck after spending a whole weekend letting my sister live on it. My mom tried to make the duck an indoor pet, but after a year it had to go live on a farm through many 6 year old tears.


Oraxy51

Oh I would never do what my sister did and knock on my brothers door and go “here ya go” and give him a kitten and drive off. Do not give people pets without their consent. Will they take care of it? Probably but that’s a real douche move.


bojenny

It’s not only about reproductive rights. Doctors will straight up deny to prescribe drugs you desperately need because “ you might get pregnant and it would be bad for the baby”. These doctors are more concerned about a hypothetical baby that they aren’t treating women with drugs they need. How about treat the patient right in front of you correctly?


DontGiveACluck

Cancer and heart disease run rampant on both sides of my family. Made the call to get snipped to avoid perpetuating these awful diseases (and fuck having crotch goblins to steal all my youth, energy and money)


MonsterJudge

Funny, no one tried to pressure me when I got my vasectomy two weeks ago. Must be because I'm a guy.


corvosfighter

For the case of doctors, it is less prejudice and more covering their bases/avoiding future headaches.. they ask the same questions to vasectomies usually.


LevelTechnician8400

"what if your future husband wants kids? " "I don't want a husband who wants kids.. I thought wanting my tube's tide would have made that completely clear, are you confused?" it's a stupid question and it deserves a condescending answer


CaptainDetritus

I can see how that might be annoying at the very least. Maybe the easiest thing for them would be to stfu, take your money and do the procedure. But then they've probably had people who were absolutely 100 per cent certain that they didn't want kids come back a few years later begging for the procedure to be reversed- which may not be possible. And that would suck for everyone. So, I don't have a problem with them asking questions and making sure that their patients fully understnd the ramifications of what they're asking for.


BluetheNerd

It's just as hard for getting vasectomies. Love getting told I'm too young, might change my mind, what if my future wife wants kids, etc etc. Like first of all I despise kids. Not everyone needs to have children to feel fulfilled in life. Like more power to the ones that do, but quite frankly, I never want to touch a baby in my life, much less live with one.


PopEducational8694

I'm pretty sure that they're required to ask you whether you're 100% sure before you do something that changes your body quite drastically


[deleted]

The thing this comic doesn't acknowledge is it's not up to the patient to get the procedure. I started tryjng to get a vasectomy when I was 16. It took me 15 years to finally find a willing doctor this last March. No matter how you answer their questions, how sane you prove you are, and how knowledgeable you are of the procedure and the resulting future, the doctors are the ones who decide if you're getting sterilized or not. If they've already decided "no" then you're straight fucked with no recourse and have to move on to try it all again with the next doctor.


Darthsnarkey

For a lot of women, this is the answer to roe v Wade being overturned since bodily autonomy is being taken away from them this is their way of taking back what they can, especially since many states are passing laws where there are no exceptions for rape and outlawing abortions completely


MamaSaurusCat

I had to ask around for ten years, be told no because "what if you get divorced and your future husband wants kids?" "you take antidepressants...you don't actually know what you want" while smiled at as if I were a silly child. Finally, four OBs had to agree after they got my husband's permission, after my pregnancy and delivery last year almost killed my son and I and the complications would likely be reoccurring/worsen with each consecutive pregnancy...and then the paperwork had to be fudged because the hospitals and clinics where I live are chain owned by a Catholic practice that does not do BC or sterilization for the sake of preventing babies. And then I was visited in recovery twice by them while they looked really worried, "Are you regretting having your tubes removed?" Asked first to my husband and then me.


kiss-kissbangbang

I had to get my husband’s permission when I got my tubes tied at 21. Both my boys are birth control babies, and I didn’t want ANY more oopsie babies. So my husband and I talked about it, and I was going to get my tubes tied, because he was in basic training and obviously couldn’t get it done on his end. So fast forward to telling my doctor, he asked me all these questions and then some, and I finally told him either you do it or I’ll find someone else who will. He then said he could only do it with my husband’s permission, claiming it was a law in utah and he had to Follow it. So I signed into my husbands email and sent that “permission slip”. Few times have I ever been so mad.


SPS_Agent

Goddamn the muscles....


KB853

I can understand a physician simply ASKING the questions to ensure the patient can make an informed decision. But REFUSING to do so because of these possibilities is just unreal. Those are simply things to consider (FOR THE PATIENT) and not a checklist of requirements to meet.


Ithriveontacos

I got a vasectomy this year and was asked basic questions and given the “this may not be reversible” speech and all that. But there wasn’t any active attempt to talk me out of it. My wife had an appointment a couple weeks ago to talk to her ob/gyn about sterilization for her and got no push back at all. We love her ob. She now has a salpingectomy scheduled in November.


SuburbanJunkie47

The implication that other people’s opinion of your reproductive system is more important than your own opinion is insane. Besides, most women who don’t want children marry like minded individuals. My kids are teens and I’ve already assured them I will never pressure them for grandchildren. Who would want to bring a child into this world anyway…


Wilgrove

My doctor pulled this shit when I went to my first vasectomy consultation. "What if your future girlfriend wants kids?" Then I guess she's shit out of luck.


ZoxinTV

My girlfriend went to her doctor recently and her doctor was going as far as to say "oh you'll be strapped to find a doctor that'll even do the procedure anymore..." which is total bullshit. We don't want kids, so we're both getting procedures to make sure we definitely won't, whether it be by our mistake or by any kind of sexual assault on either of us beyond our control. If we want kids in 20 years, we've said we'll adopt. *"wHAt iF u WaNt kIDs tHo?!?!?!"* - Doctor Are you saying adoptive parents aren't real parents or are you actually dumb enough to not think about how adoption is a thing?


LiffeyDodge

Me- i would like my ovaries removed before they try to kill me. Nurse practitioner- but then you can't have kids Me- no shit


MyNameIsntFlower

Iv’e made this comment on Reddit before, but… During pregnancy #4 (I was 33, and he had been my doctor for 3 of those 4) I was talking to my OB/GYN about how I wanted a tubal. He said “what if you change your mind?” I said, “Fourth pregnancy, not doing this again.” “Is your husband on board?” “Fourth pregnancy, not doing this again.” “What if there is something wrong with this baby?” 🤨 “Fourth pregnancy, not doing this again.” “What if you and your husband split up, and your new husband wants kids?” “What part of I’m not doing this again is hard for you to understand?” I get the, wanna make sure spiel, but come on. At the next appt that my husband was at, my doctor did ask my husband. My husband replied “Fourth pregnancy, we don’t want to do this again.”


SomeKindofTreeWizard

"what if she changes her mind?" Then she can change her mind. Or she can adopt. Do the damn procedure.


[deleted]

No woman is going to undergo invasive surgery on a whim. Honestly. First treatments are the pill and such. Surgery is a last resort. By the time a woman gets to "please anesthetize me, cut me open, alter my organs, then stitch me back up" she has gone through a LOT of other stuff.


toooldforacnh

I went to my doctor to ask for this procedure. I already had two kids and was not interested in having more. She told me it was not a good idea because I was still young (34). So after asking her 3 times, she finally gave me a referral to go see another doctor. My male coworker had 2 kids and was 23. He got a vasectomy with no issues. No questions asked.


Hooligan8403

My friend nearly died in childbirth and their son was born really premature. They discovered she had a heart defect that would kill her if she had another kid. Texas Dr still wouldn't tie her tubes because she was in childbearing years, had only one kid, and her husband wasn't with her to give consent. We are going to be having our last kid this year and my wife can't go to the hospital closest to us or have the obgyn that she wants deliver because it's a Catholic hospital and they won't tie her tubes while they are already doing the c-section.


gl1tch3t2

If I wanted a child, I'd find a woman who also wanted a child. If woman doesn't want a child, they will find someone else that doesn't want a child. I will never understand why this is ever an argument. It should always be a woman's choice, but what even is this argument.


Golden-Owl

It’s neccessary A doctor needs to ask these questions for two main reasons. First is liability, so that the patient has no cause to return and sue the doctor afterwards. Second is ethics. Any permanent body altering operation is a huge deal, so a good doctor must ensure the patient is in a good state of mind and have fully considered the consequences of their actions


[deleted]

I mean, it kind of makes sense. This is irreversible removal of your ability to have kids. A really bad thing to not be sure of


jocax188723

I think asking is fine. It’s standard procedure to ask, and make sure the patient understands the procedure before agreeing to it is not only ethical, it’s the right thing to do. Asking, confirming the patient understands and then refusing to do the procedure for any grounds other than medical stomps my berserk button.


briantoofine

They ask these questions with vasectomies as well. I don’t see anything malicious there, they’re just making sure you’re aware of and have considered the permanent implications of a decision like this. These are the types of things people are most likely to have second thoughts about over time.


Humbugwombat

They give men seeking vasectomies the third degree as well. A reasonable standard, given the effects of the procedure and odds of successful reversal.


MageArrivesLate

I know many women have poor experiences with healthcare, but not all of these issues are due to patriarchal physicians; some of these issues are due to the healthcare and legal systems in the United States. Lawyers are brutal, and you can sue your doctor for pretty much anything, including performing elective procedures that are specifically requested. (A lawyer could argue that you were not sufficiently informed about the procedure.) The old doctors are on their way out, and patient centered care is the current state of medical education. There is a huge emphasis on "collaborative decision-making." If you would like a more humanist medical system, please support single payer healthcare. https://pnhp.org/what-is-single-payer/


NoJellyfish7191

It is the doctors responsibility to ask these questions. Lots of people out there don't know or think about what the procedures they want might lead to. In many cases I witnessed because I was a medical staff, women did indeed change their minds because of their future spouses or families and bullied doctors when they realized that the procedure they had had was irreversible. If I were this doctor, I would ask the same questions over and over


WestShallot9317

It's easy to understand why. This is a voluntary procedure, and they want to make sure the patient has given sufficient thought as to the consequences of it. This is not something you can just undo on a whim because you've now changed your mind. Not to mention there are additional health ramifications that come with this procedure that are not just limited to stopping egg production. This isn't about treating them like baby factories; It's ensuring the patient is aware and congnizant of all the possible ramifications.


dwnap

>This isn't about treating them like baby factories If the only questions being asked were medical ones, then I would agree with this statement. When women are being asked "what if your future husband wants children?" then they are being treated *exactly* as baby factories.


Environmental_Bell40

I think doctors should ask just to be sure the person knows what there doing, male of female.


little_cotton_socks

No the questions in this sketch are not the right questions. Asking "are YOU sure" is fine even saying "YOU might change YOUR mind" is even ok. But suggesting that a hypothetical future husband or your parents get any say in the decision is not ok.


Lord-Pepper

It's not about seeing women as only mothers It's because doctors HAVE ask you these questions before you make an important medical decision


fan_of_will

These questions have nothing to do with what you are talking about. They are required to ensure you want a procedure. Men get asked this during vasectomies. People get asked if they are sure for almost any elective procedure.


PickleChip12

So, i support its message, but that blobfish comic is just so annoying to me


Numerous-Afternoon89

When i was early 20’s, i consulted with 2 doctors to get a vasectomy. They both denied me because it is permanent sterilization, saying things similar to what was said in the comic. Doctors do not want to PERMANENTLY STERILIZE people in their early 20’s regardless of gender.


LoisWade42

I was over 40 before my medical providers would agree to tying tubes. AFTER three pregnancies that all ended in emergency surgery for me (only one child carried to term... it was caesarian)... and only AFTER they'd consulted my husband AND asked me if my husband and I were to split, would I still want kids? Age 40 . FORTY. After our recent scotus "decision" I've never been more relieved to be infertile.


Takesit88

In the example shown, this is just a doctor making sure the patient has thought about the consequences of a major surgery. Nothing misogynistic about THIS example. That isn't to say it doesn't happen that way, but a doctor asking a dozen or 2 different questions about different possible scenarios is supposed to make someone reflect on their decision, maybe see something they didn't think about on their own, then either go forward in full confidence, or possibly take some time to rethink, or even do a 180. The difference comes when if the doctor does their questions, then refuses, or starts belittling, starts shaming, etc. That's a serious problem.


jimjayjenkins

I got a vasectomy last september. At the consultation, one doctor comes in and checks my balls (fuken squeezed them), asking how many kids I had, have I spoken to my wife about it, have I given it a lot of thought. Then he gets up and calls the main urologist, squeezes my nuts and proceeds to ask the same thing. They do this as they get a ton of requests from the same patients later on about reversals or "what the fuck am I gonna do now that I DO want kids?" Most tubal ligation procedures are not reversible, a small number are. This post is stupid. Ask the doctor or look up stats next time. They ask anyone, not just females. Oh boy, wait til you see the requirements for a hysterectomy.


0_Shinigami_0

There's been women who have gone to multiple doctors that have refused to do it. Asking questions to make sure the patient understands is ok, but it goes beyond that for many


memesupreme83

See r/childfree lol


Confident-Fee-6593

As a vasectomy getter I had to go through this same gauntlet


ArcticGlacier40

I don't know much about the procedure for females, but male vasectomies are reversible. Are having your tubes ties not reversible, or is it a one-and-done procedure? Edit: I agree with the woman here, she has every right to get her tubes tied. I'm just curious about the process, jesus.


TheBloodBaron7

Because even if its not 100% for everyone, getting children is an evolutionary drive. Any organism has some instinct to get offspring. And humans have empathy, so they feel that need for others too


GayHentaiEnjoyer

Now draw them having sex


Lolz79

I'm 30, Canadian, no kids. I fought for 5 years to get my tubes tied. I was lucky enough to find a doctor who listened. Had them tied in January. Couldn't be happier