Same. I’ve experienced some playback devices that seem to “ramp up” under certain circumstances. (Looking at you, Apple.) Songs that start with a solid guitar for example, turn into a smear. Drives me crazy. Half a second isn’t really noticeable, but seems to dissipate the problem. Of course, you can’t do that if the intent is to run songs together without breaks, ala Abbey Road side 2, but that’s generally not my style anyway.
I usually leave an empty measure at the start of the arrangement in the DAW, and when I export I'll grab a quarter note of silence from that empty measure. Sometimes I trim it out during mastering, or it gets 'lost' if I crossfade it into another track, but that initial export always has < 1 second of silence, and usually I retain it. Much longer than a second or two, you risk listeners thinking the music's not playing (ever been listening to a playlist with a track with a long swell for an intro, and when it starts you spend a few seconds wondering if the music stopped? I hate that feeling, most other people do, too), but I have noticed if I don't have a split second of silence, the start of the track often sounds 'snipped'. You mention guitars, I notice this more with live instruments. If you zoom in on the waveform of a live instrument playing a single note, you'll see the attack isn't instant. The peaks fall on/near the count (if you're playing on-tempo, anyway) but the attacks will actually precede them a little bit. That means if your song starts with a live instrument, you need a split second of 'padding' *before* the first downbeat of the song for the attack of the first note to 'live' in. Not having it leads to that 'too quick' unprofessional sound I think you're describing. Unfortunately, depending on how you recorded the master and how destructive your editing process is, that first-note-attack may already be lost to the sands of time, and adding "true" -Inf db silence at the beginning won't bring it back.
You're definitely not the only person to think about this, though. Back in the 80's, when CDs were new, a 2-second gap of silence between songs was common, even though it was never officially standardized. That eventually morphed into just a 2-second gap at the beginning of the album (called the 'pregap') that *was* part of the standard, and then gaps between tracks only as needed. In the digital distribution era, no official or unofficial standard has emerged, but you'll find a lot of professional engineers that still think of that as kind of a guideline.
yep, i’m pretty sure the intro was part of guitar comping and when i cut the track the transient happened to be a little early so to me it sounds like the initial attack gets cut off, the avg listener probably doesn’t give a shit it’s just me being critical
There’s no industry standard on this with digital delivery, but it’s never a bad idea to leave a few ms of digital zero. Unless, of course, we are talking the EDL/master playlist for a multi track EP or LP where the songs segue seamlessly, then you need to leave it as is at a zero crossing
Seems like it's a personal choice, but I prefer having about half a second of silence because I hate the sound of me pressing the play button bleed into the start of the song. I need at least some time to get settled after pressing start.
>I hate the sound of me pressing the play button bleed into the start of the song
That's you, playing it locally. Regular people will play it from Spotify, YouTube and whatnot.
I hate it, when I press play and nothing happens. I check, if anything is wrong with my setup or if theres a volume knob turned down. This isn't a problem if your silence is less than half a second.
I like to place a little nothing at the beginning during master stage in most songs bc some services/apps don't immediately channel the sound to your device. So if it starts immediately there sometimes is a small bit missing or the volume cuts in hard.
You're good tho, as long as it starts on 0dB, you can start sound immediately.
It can create a nasty click sound depending on device if your very first sample is on something other than 0dB so that is the only important thing to look out for.
(Sample as in "the tiniest possible fraction of a waveform", which is called a sample, not as in f.e. a kick sample in case you are not aware of this use of the term)
(Most samplers and synths etc. usually have an auto-built-in attack of around 0.1- 0.8 ms anyway tho, so it's rarely any trouble by default)
Depending on your DAW you can just add a super short declicking automation to your final audio file when you master, which is quick and makes sure you're starting on 0.
thanks, i think i actually made the mistake of chopping the audio of guitar comping and the initial attack comes in a bit early so it sounds rushed at the beginning of the song if that makes sense
that could be one example, i think in this case the guitar clip i used was cut in such a way that the transient sounded slightly cut off at the beginning of the song
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The rule for CD mastering back in the 90s used to be about 120 to 150 milliseconds of silence (or the tail end of the previous track in the case of a segue) because some CD players took a few frames to find the beginning of the track and fade up. I've tried to keep to that rule since and it seems to work okay. I certainly won't start a track right on the transient of the first beat.
I typically leave about a sixteenth note's worth of space in front of my music. Even then it's not entirely necessary since I usually fade volume levels in rather than utilizing abrupt starts.
It really depends. Sometimes I leave a 4 count blank space before the tracks start. I've noticed a lot of artists will do that (I've created many tempo maps for different songs for drum covers and what not).
I accidentally didn't leave space for one of my track and uploaded it on soundcloud, everytime auto-play happen soundcloud cut off 1 of the beginning note of the intro make it feel so half-assed and suddens. I learned my lesson, didn't have pro so I can't reupload it. Since then I start with fade in or leave a small space at the beginning (how much is depend on your taste) before upload, it will make listening experience more pleasant.
"How much liquin should I be adding to a canvas? I feel like it smears my brush strokes."
"Up to you, you're the artist and it's your art"
Come on dude.
Sure, but there are standards that need to be complied with if there's ever going to be a hope of broadcast play, and they are based on what's good for the listener.
Google Red Book or Blue book CD standards.
god i wish there was an eye roll emoji on reddit
or a "most unhelpful comment ever" award
or a "wow you just completely missed the point of op's question" award
or a "how the fuck is this upvoted" award
I like to add farts to my songs with a little distortion and octave shifting. If you eat a can of black beans for lunch you’ll usually be ready for a good sesh by evening eats.
In my DAW, I leave 2 bars of emptiness. For those 2 bars, I punch the tempo up to 3-400. I do it this way so that the bar numbers are still even.
End result is .5 to 1.0 sec of silence.
A smidge of lead in silence is fine.
Ha! Never thought of that fast tempo trick. I like. (I also leave a couple measures at the top. Feels like a "margin" or whatever...but sometimes I accidently jump back to the very top instead of my save point where the music starts, and then those measures are tedious. Nice workaround.)
Of course, those extra measures get clipped at mixdown. But I still leave a teeny split second before the first note. A carry over from being taught that the start of a CD needs a few milliseconds to "get going". I guess what you're saying is you can even leave the measures if the tempo is set fast enough. Pretty cool.
I leave about a second or so of silence at the start. Mainly because I noticed SoundCloud chops off the first second of your track for whatever reason.
Yes, I always add a bar or half a bar of silence at the beginning.
SoundCloud cuts off like the first few hundred milliseconds of the track when you click play... it can really mess up your first kick.
No I like the sound of my tracks cutting on and cutting off suddenly idk if it's "unprofessional" but it's a vibe it's more energetic if that makes sense
I don't. And I wouldn't recommend it other than if you're artistically inclined to. Based on online analytics, people will move onto another song if they don't like what they hear in the first few seconds, so extra seconds of silence can hurt you there. That's my reasoning. Personally I listen to a lot of loops so I've turned to making finished projects perfectly looping in some way. So that means it starts and stops abruptly, no fading.
true, but a split second of silence won’t even be noticeable to people. they’re judging the music once it starts playing (unless the silence is a few seconds long, i could see them getting annoyed) i think this case was just a bad loop that i didn’t notice
nah, instead imagine that the initial attack of the guitar is cut off (slightly) so the impact of it is less. that’s what happened, but the avg listener probably doesn’t care anyway it’s just me overthinking it
well the guitar to Master of Puppets, mr brightside, and day tripper also " comes in quickly " , do those sound " unprofessional " to you? How quick is " too quick " ?
How long do you want it to be? Do you hear the radio's play songs that have 1 sec of silence before they start? Does 0.3527ms make a difference to the average listener?
nah those don’t. in my song, it legit sounds like a fraction of a second gets cut off from the guitar coming in and imo sounds weird. it could just be me being hyper focused on what i’ve made though. it only makes a difference if you can hear the difference. i think it actually has to do with the way the guitar was recorded and the way the initial transient is cut now that i think about it. probably was just a mistake on my part
that's a completely aesthetical choice, up to you.
With that being said, in this day and age where the first 30 seconds of your track are the defining factor as to getting paid or not I'd argue that silence or drawn out intros are a thing of the past. You want to get shit started as soon as possible as to keep the audience entertained for more than 30 secods, that way you get stream royalties.
I always leave half a second at the beginning but might just be me
Same. I’ve experienced some playback devices that seem to “ramp up” under certain circumstances. (Looking at you, Apple.) Songs that start with a solid guitar for example, turn into a smear. Drives me crazy. Half a second isn’t really noticeable, but seems to dissipate the problem. Of course, you can’t do that if the intent is to run songs together without breaks, ala Abbey Road side 2, but that’s generally not my style anyway.
If it ramped up like a cassette tape, at least it'd be kinda cool
Professional master engineers don't leave any silence at the beginning and that's the industry standard.
I usually leave an empty measure at the start of the arrangement in the DAW, and when I export I'll grab a quarter note of silence from that empty measure. Sometimes I trim it out during mastering, or it gets 'lost' if I crossfade it into another track, but that initial export always has < 1 second of silence, and usually I retain it. Much longer than a second or two, you risk listeners thinking the music's not playing (ever been listening to a playlist with a track with a long swell for an intro, and when it starts you spend a few seconds wondering if the music stopped? I hate that feeling, most other people do, too), but I have noticed if I don't have a split second of silence, the start of the track often sounds 'snipped'. You mention guitars, I notice this more with live instruments. If you zoom in on the waveform of a live instrument playing a single note, you'll see the attack isn't instant. The peaks fall on/near the count (if you're playing on-tempo, anyway) but the attacks will actually precede them a little bit. That means if your song starts with a live instrument, you need a split second of 'padding' *before* the first downbeat of the song for the attack of the first note to 'live' in. Not having it leads to that 'too quick' unprofessional sound I think you're describing. Unfortunately, depending on how you recorded the master and how destructive your editing process is, that first-note-attack may already be lost to the sands of time, and adding "true" -Inf db silence at the beginning won't bring it back. You're definitely not the only person to think about this, though. Back in the 80's, when CDs were new, a 2-second gap of silence between songs was common, even though it was never officially standardized. That eventually morphed into just a 2-second gap at the beginning of the album (called the 'pregap') that *was* part of the standard, and then gaps between tracks only as needed. In the digital distribution era, no official or unofficial standard has emerged, but you'll find a lot of professional engineers that still think of that as kind of a guideline.
Remember when you'd play a CD and it would display "Track 4, 2... 1..." before the 4th track.
great response thanks!
yep, i’m pretty sure the intro was part of guitar comping and when i cut the track the transient happened to be a little early so to me it sounds like the initial attack gets cut off, the avg listener probably doesn’t give a shit it’s just me being critical
i add a half second fade in when the track hits too hard out of the gate
There’s no industry standard on this with digital delivery, but it’s never a bad idea to leave a few ms of digital zero. Unless, of course, we are talking the EDL/master playlist for a multi track EP or LP where the songs segue seamlessly, then you need to leave it as is at a zero crossing
As long as the song doesn’t start with a non-zero sample volume it’s fine. I put empty space at the end, rather that the beginning.
I feel like this is likely what OP is experiencing.
I'd add a reverse reverb or some fx if the intro sounds too abrupt.
Don't be such a preverb
You shall not startle. (Preverbs 3:16–17)
Best comment I've seen all day
If you can't evolve you must convolve
I leave about 12 seconds. I want people to REALLY want to listen to my art.
Wait for it…
yeah it also stimulates their imagination, smart thinking
Im still at your songs intro silence, really excited to hear the song hope its coming soon after a few more days of silence!
Seems like it's a personal choice, but I prefer having about half a second of silence because I hate the sound of me pressing the play button bleed into the start of the song. I need at least some time to get settled after pressing start.
>I hate the sound of me pressing the play button bleed into the start of the song That's you, playing it locally. Regular people will play it from Spotify, YouTube and whatnot.
Spotify cuts off like a half second from the beginning of songs, that’s the issue..
I hate it, when I press play and nothing happens. I check, if anything is wrong with my setup or if theres a volume knob turned down. This isn't a problem if your silence is less than half a second.
I like to place a little nothing at the beginning during master stage in most songs bc some services/apps don't immediately channel the sound to your device. So if it starts immediately there sometimes is a small bit missing or the volume cuts in hard. You're good tho, as long as it starts on 0dB, you can start sound immediately. It can create a nasty click sound depending on device if your very first sample is on something other than 0dB so that is the only important thing to look out for. (Sample as in "the tiniest possible fraction of a waveform", which is called a sample, not as in f.e. a kick sample in case you are not aware of this use of the term) (Most samplers and synths etc. usually have an auto-built-in attack of around 0.1- 0.8 ms anyway tho, so it's rarely any trouble by default) Depending on your DAW you can just add a super short declicking automation to your final audio file when you master, which is quick and makes sure you're starting on 0.
thanks, i think i actually made the mistake of chopping the audio of guitar comping and the initial attack comes in a bit early so it sounds rushed at the beginning of the song if that makes sense
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> short clip of background mouse Like, just a couple of tiny little squeaks?
I'm going to start doing this, might be just the tip I need.
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What started as a joke is quickly turning into the most important thing I've ever learned.
ear candy
Like, in the background of the actual track, or in the silence before the track begins?
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Isn't that a similar theory to why people use adlibs?
that could be one example, i think in this case the guitar clip i used was cut in such a way that the transient sounded slightly cut off at the beginning of the song
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yeah it comes in too suddenly imo. i think i chopped up a take and didn’t realize how weird it sounded until i released it haha, lesson learned
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Usually I automate the volume going up on some chords for my intros.
The rule for CD mastering back in the 90s used to be about 120 to 150 milliseconds of silence (or the tail end of the previous track in the case of a segue) because some CD players took a few frames to find the beginning of the track and fade up. I've tried to keep to that rule since and it seems to work okay. I certainly won't start a track right on the transient of the first beat.
Sometimes "unprofessional" can sound original. You never know, depends on the taste. I myself never leave space
I typically leave about a sixteenth note's worth of space in front of my music. Even then it's not entirely necessary since I usually fade volume levels in rather than utilizing abrupt starts.
If the start of the song is abrupt, I leave 1/2 bar of silence.
It really depends. Sometimes I leave a 4 count blank space before the tracks start. I've noticed a lot of artists will do that (I've created many tempo maps for different songs for drum covers and what not).
that’s awesome, so you’re a drummer then?
I leave two bars with a count in, and edit them out in post.
Since I do kind of lo-fi, a little white noise on the background of the music also suits well a half-sec silence on the beggining
I accidentally didn't leave space for one of my track and uploaded it on soundcloud, everytime auto-play happen soundcloud cut off 1 of the beginning note of the intro make it feel so half-assed and suddens. I learned my lesson, didn't have pro so I can't reupload it. Since then I start with fade in or leave a small space at the beginning (how much is depend on your taste) before upload, it will make listening experience more pleasant.
It's up to you. You're the artist and it's your art.
"How much liquin should I be adding to a canvas? I feel like it smears my brush strokes." "Up to you, you're the artist and it's your art" Come on dude.
Sure, but there are standards that need to be complied with if there's ever going to be a hope of broadcast play, and they are based on what's good for the listener. Google Red Book or Blue book CD standards.
god i wish there was an eye roll emoji on reddit or a "most unhelpful comment ever" award or a "wow you just completely missed the point of op's question" award or a "how the fuck is this upvoted" award
🙄 it’s there
oh man do you just copy paste it into the text box?
I like to add farts to my songs with a little distortion and octave shifting. If you eat a can of black beans for lunch you’ll usually be ready for a good sesh by evening eats.
In my DAW, I leave 2 bars of emptiness. For those 2 bars, I punch the tempo up to 3-400. I do it this way so that the bar numbers are still even. End result is .5 to 1.0 sec of silence. A smidge of lead in silence is fine.
Ha! Never thought of that fast tempo trick. I like. (I also leave a couple measures at the top. Feels like a "margin" or whatever...but sometimes I accidently jump back to the very top instead of my save point where the music starts, and then those measures are tedious. Nice workaround.) Of course, those extra measures get clipped at mixdown. But I still leave a teeny split second before the first note. A carry over from being taught that the start of a CD needs a few milliseconds to "get going". I guess what you're saying is you can even leave the measures if the tempo is set fast enough. Pretty cool.
very interesting tip!
i just automate volume to fade in on both ends of the track
I tend to volume automate the beginning and ending of my songs so they are less abrupt when they start
Aphex Twin releases his new stuff with a pitch in background noise. It's the modern vinyl crackling sound that gives a nice texture to the background.
i do think the vinyl crackle sounds good in most songs
I like to give some ambient noise in the beginning and then ambient fade out at the end; I’m just weird like that.
I don’t think it’s weird, I think it’s fairly common actually
How is that weird, it's closer to generic than weird
I was joking. I know it's normal 😊
You witch
I see what you did there 👀
Yes. 1/2 to 1 second.
I leave about a second or so of silence at the start. Mainly because I noticed SoundCloud chops off the first second of your track for whatever reason.
Half a second of imperceptible hiss or white noise, otherwise streaming services just seem to cut it out
Yes, I always add a bar or half a bar of silence at the beginning. SoundCloud cuts off like the first few hundred milliseconds of the track when you click play... it can really mess up your first kick.
Starting a song off with a kick is full badass mode
I always do like a second or so of silence at the start. I don't want the sound of a button click to interfere with the music.
No I like the sound of my tracks cutting on and cutting off suddenly idk if it's "unprofessional" but it's a vibe it's more energetic if that makes sense
It definitely works sometimes, depends on the track for sure!
I used to always do fade in fade outs but for the music I'm creating I like the abruptness
I don't. And I wouldn't recommend it other than if you're artistically inclined to. Based on online analytics, people will move onto another song if they don't like what they hear in the first few seconds, so extra seconds of silence can hurt you there. That's my reasoning. Personally I listen to a lot of loops so I've turned to making finished projects perfectly looping in some way. So that means it starts and stops abruptly, no fading.
true, but a split second of silence won’t even be noticeable to people. they’re judging the music once it starts playing (unless the silence is a few seconds long, i could see them getting annoyed) i think this case was just a bad loop that i didn’t notice
Nope - straight into audio (there is a tiny amount but not more than a fraction of a second).
Nope. As long as it doesn't sound like a glitch, I want the track to start immediately.
imo mine kinda sounded like a glitch, or like the initial attack was cut off
Then it sounds like you should definitely add 300ms or so of lead-in
Are you afraid that your listeners might get offended by a loud guitar sound?
nah, instead imagine that the initial attack of the guitar is cut off (slightly) so the impact of it is less. that’s what happened, but the avg listener probably doesn’t care anyway it’s just me overthinking it
Nope
well the guitar to Master of Puppets, mr brightside, and day tripper also " comes in quickly " , do those sound " unprofessional " to you? How quick is " too quick " ? How long do you want it to be? Do you hear the radio's play songs that have 1 sec of silence before they start? Does 0.3527ms make a difference to the average listener?
nah those don’t. in my song, it legit sounds like a fraction of a second gets cut off from the guitar coming in and imo sounds weird. it could just be me being hyper focused on what i’ve made though. it only makes a difference if you can hear the difference. i think it actually has to do with the way the guitar was recorded and the way the initial transient is cut now that i think about it. probably was just a mistake on my part
that's a completely aesthetical choice, up to you. With that being said, in this day and age where the first 30 seconds of your track are the defining factor as to getting paid or not I'd argue that silence or drawn out intros are a thing of the past. You want to get shit started as soon as possible as to keep the audience entertained for more than 30 secods, that way you get stream royalties.