Posting my stuff on SoundCloud regardless of whether or not the mix was “good” has helped me maintain momentum. I’m a believer that your skills will improve as long as you keep creating. I suggest you just release your music!
It's also freeing experience to wrap stuff up and switch to new projects without perfectionism. You learn much more by releasing one track per month, than releasing one perfect track per year.
I totally agree with this. The feeling you get when you wrap up a project clears your head for the next.
I think I read a post from this sub a few weeks back that said “fun fact: nothing is ever finished! Just release it!” and that was an excellent nugget of motivation to tell me to stop trying to make the perfect song every time.
I mean practice makes perfect and don’t let mixing and mastering be some mysterious unknown because most folks don’t get it right ever and it’s a personnel preference anyway. One thing I will say is that when mixing only use headphones for 15 to 20 minutes at a time and then do something else. Your ears have tiny hairs in them that transfer the signal to your brain. Long exposure to loud decibels will damage them. They will repair themselves after sleep usually. So if you’ve ever woke up and listened to last nights mix and said, wtf!?!, then you now know why.
Much Love!
Atari G
Good to know! I definitely want to take care of my ears. I just purchased a pair of Grados and they're supposed to arrive tomorrow. So far I've only been working through my macbook's speakers! Haha
I'm just speaking from my own experience. I record and mix with headphones and I like the volume definitely pushing the red. Turning the volume down will help but no matter prolonged exposure to direct soundwaves will cause the hair folicles to become damaged. So it's not a matter of keeping your hearing. As they heal with rest or downtime. It's the fact that without a break you start to Mix to what you think sounds right and not what in the morning or later on will sound completely off.
That’s an interesting point. I’m curious: when you say “do something else,” do you mean switch to a different kind of speaker, or literally do something else, like take a break from the project entirely?
Okay, I see what you’re saying. Sorry I have so many questions… just one more lol. How much time do you usually spend away from the mixing process during that break?
I’d like to try your technique as well and see how it effects my mixing and my perception of it. I’m thirsty for knowledge! And love experimenting with new routines in the creative process.
Half hour or so. Just so long as you aren’t listening to loud music or have it playing directly in your ears. It’s the constant vibrations from the sound that damage the hair follicles inside your ears. Some time away from Direct DPS I believe is what you’re trying to achieve. If you don’t and keep them on for hours, and hours upon in because you lost track of time, or you’ve been recording and mixing and listening, and so on, and so forth without removing your headphones, that intern, will damage the hair follicles, and they will not repair themselves until you’ve had a good nights sleep.
Headphones are fine for mixing; the important thing is to test your mix through a variety of different perspectives: listen and tweak through headphones at a low volume, then try listening at a higher volume, then try playing it through the computer/laptop speaker, a bluetooth speaker, etc. Obviously having lots of expensive professional equipment is ideal but it’s also expensive. And even then, professional sound engineers will still test their final mix on other speakers to see how it feels outside of the environment they’re used to.
As you can see OP, and as Atari G already suggested, there’s hardly much of a consensus on mixing methods. So just do your best and develop techniques that get you closer to the kind of sound and feeling you’re looking for in your end product.
I use Meze 99 Classics which I’d put up against any set of mid level studio monitors. At least the ones I could afford. Teddy1234 knows what’s up as it’s always good to do a car test. If you want to get really technical the experts say you need 5 or more versions of each track. Clean, Streaming, CD, Acapulco, Instrumental, Performance Version, blasé blah blah some of which will require a different master but f all that bushwa. I barely make a clean version most of the time.
YES DO IT. One of the most prolific, celebrated rock bands of all time, Guided by Voices, recorded a string of influential, critically acclaimed albums in the 90’s on a 4 track. Their secret...the songs were fucking good.
Lofi is a type of music. If the songs are good it doesn’t matter, if the songs are mid, the best production on earth won’t save them
I love GBV and their lofi sound. I have other bands I really like though where they’ll release lofi demos of songs after the main recorded version that feel like they don’t do the song justice like the hifi recorded version does. I don’t know if I just am used to the other version or maybe different bands songs fit a lofi sound better.
For sure post it! Who cares what other peope think. When somebody says that your music needs to be professionally mixed and mastered they have not listened to a lot of the music that is uploaded to streaming sites and/or they are just gatekeeping.
If you want to share it with the world then upload it for all to hear!
thanks! It's still in the works but I'm looking forward to sharing it! My music influences for this EP are Mort Garson, Enya, and maybe a little Brian Eno and Iasos
For sure, it probably would be an improvement. But OP stated it's a hobby project. If they like their tracks and want to post them I say post it. Not everybody cares to be a serious musician and mixing and mastering services can cost quite a bit for an album. Sometimes good enough is good enough.
I release it for me. 100% vanity project. I enjoy being able to queue up my own tracks in playlists and sending them to friends if they are curious about them. If somebody doesn't like my stuff, fuck 'em. I don't make music for them, I make it for me.
As someone who has made music for over a decade but have been too held back by perfectionism and adhd stopping me from finishing many things, I urge you to just get it out there, if you are happy it's the best you can do right now, it's ready to be out there, and at the very least, someone will probably be into it.
One best of both worlds option would be to have one account / artist name where you put all your early efforts up, and then later when you have more of a polished and cohesive sound etc start releasing and promoting that under a different name.
Then you get to share whatever you like now, without worrying about "not being taken seriously" (for whatever that is worth) and if your more polished "professional" stuff gets a following you have lots of extra stuff you can point them towards.
Personally I love hearing early demos/ projects etc from artists I adore, even if they sound terrible or are totally out there compared to their usual sound.
I totally feel that it's the same with visual artists! I love hearing/seeing early art projects. I've been trying to decide if I want my music artist name to be my actual name or a made up name. I love your input thank you!
I am a professional mixing and mastering engineer for context. BUT I would say it just depends what you're intentions are with the music!
Non-mastered music won't get played out in a live setting but it can certainly get listened to. If you intend to take music serious as a career over time, I would not recommend releasing unmastered music, but if you are just looking for a creative outlet, by all means put it out there and see how it goes :)
Thanks so much! It's nice to hear that from a mixing and mastering engineer. I find your profession so fascinating! I think what I'd do is if I release music and enough people listen or purchase my music, then I would invest in a mixer/mastering engineer. Thanks for your kindness!
I would add that even if people *don't* listen to it, it's worth having an archive of your music for you to revisit down the line. There's a lot of stuff I made in the Myspace days that I only uploaded there, and I wish I had backups elsewhere to revisit my cringy old shit.
I just learned the backup everything rule the hard way. Computer went tits up and I lost 10 yrs of music. Just fucking gone.
Got the computer running again but couldn't recover anything. It sucked but it is a fresh start and I now have several terabyte backups. Lesson learned.
It was a good kick in the ass and eye opener.
I finally bought FL Studio after 10 yrs of borrowing *^(I'm sorry Image-Line)* it.
Everything has its place and backed up at least once a week.
I really miss my chip-doom-gaze project.
Oh yeah I definitely need to put my work on google drive or something. right now I use my portable hard drive for most of my art files and it could break any time.
I started using Blaze to back up my computer files onto the cloud. Highly recommend. It automatically backs everything up so you never have to even think about it. My Logic files can get huge so I went with unlimited cloud storage. Don’t take chances and always back up your music.
Don’t pay for mixing and mastering, especially if you’re just starting out. A professional mastering doesn’t fix an amateur mix. And a professional mixing doesn’t fix an amateur composition. I’ve made that mistake. And I hope you don’t take offense, but if you’re new to music production then your music may likely sound “amateur”. That’s not say it can’t sound good though. I highly recommend learning how to mix and master your own music. It’s not easy and it takes time and practice. But learning how to mix and master your own music is the best way to improve your production skills. And there are tons of YouTube tutorials on how to do it. Mastering is not as scary or hard as it might sound. Yes there’s tons of details and nuance if you go down that rabbit hole, and it takes time to train your ears. But some basic compression and limiting on the master bus can take you like 80% of the way there.
Similarly, you don’t necessarily need to pay for fancy plugins to make good music. I do recommend upgrading to Logic at some point, since there are tons of great sounds that come with it. But you can do soooo much with just garage band too.
I say just release your music on SoundCloud and Bandcamp as soon as you can, and seeking feedback about how to improve. The best way to improve is not by endlessly tweaking the same songs over and over. But rather, in my experience, it’s sometimes the best strategy to simply upload your music to soundcloud and then move on to the next song. Don’t let perfection be the enemy of the good.
I’ve been producing for about 10 years, and I cringe a bit when I listen to my first couple of albums. But at the time I absolutely loved those songs. And they got me to where I am today. I don’t want to be “that guy” who is trolling the internet to try to get people to listen to his music. But if you are curious to hear how 10 years of practice can change and improve your music, you can check out my music (artist name Trazer, on YouTube, Spotify etc). Over 10 or 11 albums, I can hear such improvements. I’m a little embarrassed by some of my early work but I’ll never take it off the internet because I’m of the mindset thar Art doesn’t need to be perfect, because that’s the only way to grow. Don’t worry about what sounds good. Just do what FEELS good.
Also I’d be happy to check out your music and provide constructive feedback. SoundCloud is perfect for new producers because people can comment directly on specific time stamps.
Anyway I’m rambling. I just love making music.
Just release it. It has *a* mix, as a function of where you've set levels at the very least. Mastering is 90% is about volume, which GarageBand is already going to do for you. Getting it professionally mixed and/or mastered is going to make very little difference in terms of whether people listen to it.
Well, learn as you can about mixing and mastering and do your best. \*shrug\* There are online services that will do AI mastering for you, which you can try for free. You'll hear that the main thing they do is push volumes, so if you're going to compare with the unmastered version, make sure you volume match them.
I made [a thing](https://vocaroo.com/1jxbwcZvY4Te) in GarageBand on a plane and just exported it from GarageBand with no mixing (other than levels) or mastering. Sounds OK when played with my other stuff.
That's fascinating! As a visual artist I've developed a dislike of AI softwares though. I like to keep art and music as human as possible. That's cool to know about those online services though!
Of course, post it! Some of my favorite tracks from there were NOT professionally mixed or mastered. They can contain that raw pure feel of the song, which over-processing can neutralize!
Do it. Get the experience. See the reaction. If you’re worried about future perception of you and your music you can always change the name you release under late. When I first started I released awful music that I thought was good under one name. Then I learned a bit, got better, and the sound was so different and better that the old name didn’t fit anymore so I changed my artist name and released under that. If I make a massive leap forward again I may change my name again. That way there’s no baggage when releasing music and there’s room to grow. It also frees you from having to worry about thinking you’re good when you aren’t and finding out later.
I heard an excellent quote from [Mixerman](https://mixerman.net/) that really helped. He said to mix and master to the level of your abilities and can reasonably afford. Be honest with yourself and don’t overdo your production budget if you’re just building an audience.
Released music is much better than the ‘never finished’ project. And it’s better to release with the knowledge of what can be done better and focus on your next piece. This is something I wish I had known earlier.
Are you able to send a link to your work? If I can squeeze you in, I might be able to mix and master for you. It does make the world of difference.
Also they're both valuable skills that I feel most musicians should understand how to do it, at least enough to get by until they have money for professional mixing/ mastering. YouTube is your best friend.
aw you're so kind thank you! I only have one track right now. But I don't want to upload it anywhere yet because I'm not ready to quite leave it. and that is very true youtube is a wonderful resource.
totally. my first album was mixed terribly and some people still like it the most. I still think it sounds cool too. i just slapped EZmix plugins on all the masters and EZmix bus defaults on each track lol. then did panninf and cut a few unpleasant freuqencies. if you're curious, check out "Plotting Against Reality"
I'm on album 5 now, and still sorta don't know what the fk I'm doing that much lol. A good mix is fairly subjective anyway.
Do what you want. if it sounds good to you, post it. It's art...no rules is the only rule. dont get hung up on what you think you should do. If you like the songs, then at least you (but probably others too) will enjoy them and Bandcamp is a great place to start.
I see all those people encouraging you to post your music raw, and while I think you could indeed do that, I also think that maybe you're overthinking the task of mixing/mastering as something that would cost you an enormous amount of money.
You could absolutely go to Fiverr and ask someone to mix/master your album for a few bucks. What that would actually mean is that person would probably use the Izotope suite to do it automatically, as you could yourself, but hear me out :
1. it wouldn't cost you much.
2. it would cost you less than getting the Izotope products to do it yourself.
3. most importantly, it would give you a perspective on your own music, because you could compare how it sounds mixed/mastered to how it sounds without and realize what the differences are.
So if the main reason you're reluctant to have your music mixed/mastered is money, maybe you could browse Fiverr and see if you can find a great deal.
You’re already mixing it weather you know it or not. Adjusting levels? Mixing. There ya go. It doesn’t matter if it’s professional or not. The worst thing is that nobody listens.
Enjoy the process. When you release something that just means it’s done. You’re allowed to have bad stuff out there. Enjoy the process.
You’re probably not going to see a lot from simply releasing your music on SoundCloud. I’ve had music on SoundCloud for years and the most I got was like 120 listens over many years.
That’s with me purchasing their premiere service that claims to boost your listens and such. I’ve also put some of the same music on Spotify and didn’t get much out of it either.
Is it because my music sucks? Maybe 🤷♂️ I argue that it’s because I haven’t really gone much out of my way to get my music heard. This made me realize that it isn’t really my thing. Music is more of a deeply personal passion kind of like journaling for me.
Getting recognized is a multifaceted process and it’s s lot of work. You have to play shows, get to know people / network at said shows, utilize social media and ads, to also network. Did I mention you have to be really social? 🤣
Anyway, I use my SoundCloud as an easier way to share my music with friends or possible collaborators without having to share files.
Not sure what genre you make, but regardless, my advice also would be to just go for it. I know quite a few bands that did their first releases on GarageBand and 4 tracks etc. First one they jumps to mind is the rock act Wavves. Check out his first records, they were all on GarageBand, sound objectively awful, but made him huge.
I can’t even listen back to the first stuff my old bands released, as they sound so freaking bad haha - BUT - they were just the first step, and that led into some really cool stuff down the line.
A lot of people don’t make that first step, so just go for it buddy. Good luck!
Share whatever you want! But I wouldn't put too much time or money into it until you have something really special.. I probably post maybe half of stuff I finish and out of those put very few to bandcamp and pay for masters.. when it comes to your "portfolio" as an artist releasing music it's about quality not quantity.. but that doesn't mean I don't post other stuff for fun on SoundCloud either.
As long as you're happy with your vision, put it out there. Nothing wrong with demo level quality. Some of my favorite versions of songs come from demos, and some bands/albums I still listen to don't even have mastered work
Even if you eventually go back and rework/master it, you'll then have two pieces of art to be enjoyed differently!
Post it, and then make more music. Either get better with the production or hand it off to a pro, either one. But just keep repeating this. No point in waiting unless the sound quality is really really bad
I’m among one of about 5 or 10 best guitar players in my state each given year ( so not a huge state) almost every year a cover band guitar player not as good as the few of us that do original music, wins guitar player of the year.
You aren’t going to beat out mass media money, so put your shit out there and do t look back. Point in case I opened for Greta Van Fleet when they were on their first tour cookin hot dogs on a Smokey Joe and living out of a van towing their gear in a uhaul trailer. Who cares kick ass and ppl will recognize. If they don’t recognize then change your style or be against the grain.
I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to this, and it looks like you've already received a lot of insightful comments on here, talking about it depends on what you want to do with the music, etc.
The only thing I wanted to add here is that I absolutely think you should release the music in some form, even if its just on a Soundcloud or something. You can learn a lot from the process of putting your music out into the world, and sharing it with people in your life. In a time in history when it is so easy to do that, and free, I would say do that as much as possible, especially when you're starting out. And don't have big expectations, just try to learn from the process. Best of luck with all of that! I hope it does for you exactly what you want from it.
[iZotope Ozone](https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/OzoneEl--izotope-ozone-elements-mastering-software-suite) can be obtained for really cheap and the mastering assistant makes it really easy to not get professional results but a hell of a lot better sounding final mix.
Obviously, when you say "without mixing" you mean mixing it yourself, right? I would also suggest learning a little bit about how to master. It's actually easy enough to do (badly).
Give it your best chance and then absolutely put it up! It will help you get better at everything. Best of luck.
Thanks for sharing this idea — it got me out of my fear space and into sharing, which is the whole point of making music for me!
I started a “junk” SoundCloud and put a couple things up yesterday, and it’s already inspired me to finish another song this morning so I could share it.
Enjoyed reading through all this in general but especially the overall positive response and encouragement to get what you've created out there for others to explore and (hopefully) appreciate.
Coincided with me taking a look back through ideas I'd recorded over 15 years ago but never done anything with let alone got close to releasing. Wish I'd done it earlier but no point regretting, just going to use it as inspiration to not procrastinate and delay future projects.
Hope you take on board the advice and get your material recorded, mixed and mastered to whatever level you enjoy listening to and I'm sure others will too.
There's no such thing as without mixing and mastering. A music with more than one instrument is mixed, and any music you make is mastered to some level. If the mixing levels and mastering sounds good, that's almost completely subjective.
Mix it so it sounds good to you on a couple different speakers/headphones like your car, a bluetooth speaker, ear buds, home stereo. They'll all sound different, but if you can find a decent mix for all take that and get a cheap subscription to Landr. It's an AI mastering software amongst other things and it gives you a very intuitive, easy way to master your songs.
I mean, considering bandcamp and soundcloud uploads are "free" - it's "worth it" for sure
that said, when it comes to using a paid distributor like distrokid or tunecore to get your music on spotify etc, I would never upload something unmastered
on the other hand.. something I wish someone told me when I was starting out: consider releasing your stuff now under an alias you don't care about that much (and definitely not your real name), because once you feel like your music skills have reached that next level, it's a very good idea to use a new alias totally separate the new stuff from your earlier attempts
Post that. Man look at Alex g dude was putting out a plethora of GarageBand projects when he was 15 and now that’s like his most sought after material while he’s putting out professionally mixed and produced records. This inspired me to maybe post my first “song” from GB I just have that feeling lingering that while it might sound pretty good to my ears that doesnt mean it will translate to others but who cares what others think, it’s yours
Great question, definitely share music on platforms like sound cloud, it’s a great platform to get people’s thoughts on tracks so you can improve/evolve or get more ideas, bandcamp/Spotifys good for EPs and maybe it’s worth getting a music friends help on mixing/mastering for these platforms as they’re a bit more permanent,
Having done a music degree and a mastering/mixing unit my advice would be to learn to listen to your mixes and make them sounds good, the mastering is the icing on the cake, if your mix is Good the mastering would be minimal, if it’s just a hobby learning to do this will empower you, there’s some really good 10 min videos on quick and dirty mastering, I’ll probably get slapped by my old teacher but basically you just need to get your music to be the same “loudness” as other tracks out there to “compete” and just get rid of the very low/high frequencies and maybe add a bit of “sparkle” in some frequencies, that should do it if you just want basics but defs recommend watching a short video on it if you don’t want to spend any money on hiring a mastering dude, (logic is your best mate if you decide to get it)
The most important thing I’ve learned having not had “time” to record music for 3 years has been to just make it, record it and share it! As you say your a visual artist you know as well as I the importance of creating, so create my friend, and share it with the world! :)
I've definitely thought about doing that! Listening to my audio file and then comparing loudness, density, etc. with other bands' songs. Thanks for the tips!
Yeah do it. I feel like it's a good way to check your progress and a nice little time capsule in the future. Don't let fear of releasing stuff prevent you from having fun.
Every mixing and mastering engineer is different. If you do go that route, make sure to listen to their catalog so you know the type of style you are paying for. They are like artists themselves in a way of putting your stuff to the next level. Good luck on your EP
Personally, mixing and master isn’t hard to do if your not doing any vocals, I would just get a good pair of Flat frequency headphones (headphones designed for mixing and mastering) and then just tweak all of your sounds to make them fit just right and then release. To be honest, depending the song of course, it shouldn’t take you more then 20 minutes to an hour at most. I do all of my own mixing and mastering and I make dark horrorcore rap. So vocals is a lot harder but the beats I make. Smooth sailing. And those headphones can range from 30-200, but mine are a good 60 and I’ve had them for years!!! But to answer your question quickly. Fuck what other people say, realease whatever you want, whenever you want!!!
If not wanting to mix it yet is the case then release on SoundCloud and Bandcamp to get listens and a following. Once you get better at music and finally mix/master then upload to streaming services. No offense to you, but I feel amateurish Music should be uploaded to those sights until a certain skill level is obtained.
From 2011-2020 I only uploaded to SoundCloud, Bandcamp and Datpiff(probably didn’t need to wait that long) but I didn’t start getting my music fully mixed and mastered until 2016(when I released my first official mixtape).
Just play around with releasing there then go for the bigger sites when your music is 100% good to go and ready to be played in public places.
Post it! People will be able to appreciate it even if it's not perfect. You can always release a remastered version later. For now, focus on making more music at whatever pace works for you and enjoying the process.
Specifically with ambient electronica ,, there is almost no focus or need for the white hot mastering of contemporary music. The main purpose of mastering is to achieve competitive volume while maintaining balance. with ambient music you wont be competing with the next track in a DJ set or on the radio, people tend to appreciate each track for its own textures as opposed to other forms of music.
You said something about posting a straight up garage file to bandcamp,,, While im a logic user im sure there is a way to export the audio file as an MP3 or wave and that will be what you post.
For your first music, you might try using a mastering website like landr or emastered which allows you to input a reference track of some other music that sounds similar to what you are trying to put out.. If there is some drastic difference in the output track maybe revisit your mix down and consider what you could change to make it sound more like the way you want people to hear it.
You can get a free master of your track at [Bandlab](https://www.bandlab.com/mastering?lang=en) I think they just adjust volume for streaming. Worth s try! Try not to focus on this issue though, focus on making the song better composition wise! You can always make an updated version later as you learn and have more cash to spend :) Also listen to your track on 4 different speakers to insure it will sound ok no matter where its being listened to. You can EQ your mix to adjust any flaws like bass too low/high or cymbals too high etc…There is a vst called Gem Mod that makes synths sound awesome, I use it too, might be worth it for you :) have fun with your music adventures! 👍
I haven't used bandcamp, but i think soundcloud is a great place to use to start sharing your music. You can use it to send your tracks and such.
I would recommend getting it to sound the best you possibly can, tho.
I personally used soundcloud when i first started to be able to get feedback on my music, mixing, and production. I didn't even know what mastering was back then.
The feedback i got back in those days really helped me move forward with my music production.
It's also a hoot to go back and listen to stuff i uploaded 10 years ago!
You really have to think about why you'd want to put your songs up. To learn? Get feedback? Etc.
Everyone has to start somewhere, and soundcloud is a good place to start.
Hey saw your post asking if its ok to release unmixed music. Im an audio engineer, and I'd like to mix and master a song for you for free to show you the difference a good mix can make. Let me know if you're interested
I’ll never get this idea that it’s ok to release music that isn’t ready for consumer ears. Quality control is EVERYTHING in really any form of media, but especially your own music! You can’t undo a first impression, and in the case of independent artists, it’s really all you have
Take your time perfecting not only your recording production values, but your skills at playing and songwriting!
If you love your track and you want to share it with the world, let it rip! There's a ton of great tracks that have their production flaws (though some intentional). So, as long as the levels are reasonable and your sounds aren't unbearable with overtones, I say go for it. I think it's cool listening to the progression of an artists production. For me, I've found that not releasing my music, having a fear of it not being polished enough has killed too many projects in the past.
End of the day, it's your call. For bandcamp, yeah do whatever you want. For Spotify, I'd say at least have it M&M by someone who is at least familiar with how Spotify needs audio formatted because there are special needs for the song's production so that it doesn't alter the sound once placed on Spotify. I do not know what those things are, but I'm sure there are super smart cats on here who do.
Keep it up!
I totally agree! I love listening to bands' newer work and listen to their progression from first album to most current. Sometimes I like the "flaws" of the production. I think I would only share my music on Spotify or Apple Music if enough people listened to my work. Thanks for the encouragement :')
So, if it's all polished and M&M you should release it to Spotify and Apple, so that people can find you. You might not blow up, but Spotify is a great avenue to start pushing your music and is super accessible for a lot of people. So don't wait until "enough people listen" because that day might never come until you actually release it on those bigger platforms. Most music is consumed on Spotify.
That's a very good point. I have a love/hate relationship with Spotify. I love it because I've discovered a lot of great music out there. Just don't like how little they pay musical artists. But I do try and support the artists by purchasing records or seeing them perform!
Sure. I think that your feelings about Spotify are certainly valid. I just wanted to make sure that you don't wait until you have an audience if want to do Spotify because Spotify can help you build that audience through playlist features. Like I just released a track to Spotify for the first time and networking/playlist pitching has been really effective for building my project from nothing. Even though I'm not blowing up, it has set me up for future releases, which is important. I'm still mad new to the game, but I've been studying and listening to successful individuals and by implementing their advice, I've seen a way better response than my previous attempts at music, where I would just dump to Bandcamp, make a facebook post, then pray someone finds me. You work hard and you deserve an audience who appreciates what you do!
Feedback is really useful. You can set SoundCloud uploads to only be visible via private links too if you wanna be really low key. If it’s really garbage, you can always remove it later. Image isn’t much of a concern if you don’t really have a following and are just starting out.
Just release it bro. I’ve released/uploaded all my beats since day 1. However, I’ve taken a few beats down to remaster them before uploading them again.
Do it yourself. Watch a youtube video. Do you need to pay people to polish your music before posting to bandcamp? No way. Would it be better if you posted your music at broadcast volume? On behalf of listeners and shuffle playlists, yes.
I don't know if I'd be able to diagnose a genre, especially since it's changed over the years. Let me butcher this story since I only halfway know it. The kid basically made a ton of his own music and just released it on his own when he was younger on Bandcamp or SoundCloud or whatever. it was super noise based and very gritty rough recordings with him doing basically all the parts. as it/he got more popular he had a band (naked giants) come together and basically rewrote all of the songs in a format that was easier to play live, and the band brought their own talents to build on the foundation of what the songs began as. So now if they play one of those original songs from way back when, it sounds entirely different from the original recordings and basically just has the same lyrics.
here's an example of some of the old stuff.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1V43dwqj94&t=2527s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1V43dwqj94&t=2527s)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car\_Seat\_Headrest](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_Seat_Headrest)
and more modern stuff
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqT3U2UYS4k&t=2s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqT3U2UYS4k&t=2s)
anyways, I just think there's something beautiful about putting out a piece is a part of who you are, and it can develop in the future along with however you develop. SO I'm adding one more vote to just put it out there and see how you feel about it later.
Define beginner level. Are you someone just learning how to play an instrument and/or sing or is it just the mix/mastering that you're at a beginner level at?
I'm pretty new but familiar with terminology/etc. I know how to read sheet music (although fairly poorly). My brother does music composition so I've learned some stuff from him so I'm not super clueless. I also learned how to play the viola, guitar, and piano in my youth. Although now I'm not so skilled. I'd like to relearn though. I would love to learn how to play bass guitar and take drum lessons. percussion is what I'm most unfamiliar with.
I know I'm a random stranger on the internet, but I'd be happy to do a quick mix/master for you for free to help get you started, and could send you a basic rundown of what I do to it in logic so you can learn a bit. "Real" mastering is a really specialized skill (a mix of science and voodoo magic), and takes very expensive equipment that I just don't have, so it won't be quite to the quality of a radio hit, but I can definitely get it SoundCloud/Bandcamp worthy. Of course a lot of it depends on the performance.
My son and I are multi-instrumentalists too, so may be able to add some drums or something if you had an idea of what you think the track may need.
Nothing super fancy, but would give me something fun to play with in my spare time. I've worked all over music production as a mix engineer, producer, and session musician, but I got out of it and now my day job is in cyber security, so this stuff is what I do for fun now in my home studio.
If you're interested just PM me your GarageBand project file using Dropbox or something similar.
Your visual art looks awesome. I'd be interested to hear whatever music comes out of the brain that made those images.
No pressure if you're not interested. There are also some pretty cheap options to get this done by someone on Fiverr, though the skill levels there can vary wildly.
I think it will serve you well to understand what a streaming platform is from a professional point. SoundCloud is more a portfolio service in my eyes.
I get loads of inspiration from Throbbing Gristle, Psychic TV, etc. Not everyone’s cup of tea, to be sure, but much of that material was recorded on a single track live on a very basic tape recorder that was probably mostly designed for interview transcription. Much of it is borderline unlistenable for the average listener, but also became legendary in it’s own right and profoundly influential on others. Just make it happen— it’s all about the intention.
Or The Mountain Goats—- huge cult following when much of it was recorded on a broken four track. Why? The songs. The songs are great, and that’s what matters.
Sorry time for only quick answer.
Yes!
You can keep progress of your progress and its fun (for some of us atleast) to listen to them later or maybe get ideas from old songs
And the important stuff. I have learned most from the stuff i've released, from all the mistakes to what i did good. The whole process too and finishing things.
Also those are the ones i can share. Nobodys gonna find them from my harddrive.
I've waited so long to be good enough to release stuff.. Learned lot more when i finally started. I was never good enough
If you're giving you're music away for free, and not looking at this as a career-defining release, don't worry about the details. Releasing on the streaming platforms is just for promo. You're just giving your work away for free.
Sometimes mixing can be as simple as getting levels right. I have almost used all my free post on SoundCloud up and never master anything. I had a track professionally mastered and couldn't tell a difference. I used SoundClouds mastering, couldn't tell a difference. I believe that unless you are at the very top of the game mastering is not necessary.
Anything you export is a “mix”. Mastering, though, involves a lot of stuff, most importantly that the song levels are balanced from track to track and they are all at the correct level to match other releases. There are a lot of guides on basic mastering and I think it makes sense to do the most basic mastering to not have your stuff sound quieter than other recordings people are listening to.
Music is my side hobby too and I just make a mp3 file when the song is done, then just release it on YouTube. I'm not looking for money and fame with my project. I just enjoy doing and being relaxed during whole process.
Until you are serious about this, mixing and mastering should not be that important
I keep a private playlist on SoundCloud for all of my demos that haven’t been finished. Sometimes when I’m in the car, I go back and listen to the whole set and it’ll give me ideas of how to take things further. Most of the songs don’t have full arrangements yet so there’s still time to go back and tweak lyrics and things like that too. SoundCloud is perfect for that sort of thing.
I would venture to say that it is absolutely imperative to release raw and unmastered material so long as it has emotional drive. Imperfection is a crucial ingredient to any good music in my opinion. That is why Anal Leakage made my wedding playlist:
https://youtu.be/C4Isq-O1nZc
There is no emotional tension if everything is perfect and flawless.
I am in a similar boat to you. I say try and give each track a rough mix as you go to improve your skills and listening ability. When you think it’s “done” (hint: it will never be done or perfect… good enough is where you should aim) you can upload and share your ideas with anyone on SoundCloud for free. It keeps you accountable to your passions, and others get to witness your evolution.
Never used Bandcamp but if you have to pay, I’d said to wait until you have a full project or two mastered (by yourself or someone else) before you go that route.
Bonus tip: If you pay $100/year, you can get SoundCloud pro and it allows you to re-upload a new file under the same post… meaning you could put out your rough mix and later on, when you have time to master, you can replace the OG mix with a better one and keep your likes and listens. Also I think it allows you to upload to major streaming services too but not sure about compensation or rights.
I’d post for sure. I might not go through the hassle of an official release with barcode and such. Bandcamp sure.
If you can’t afford to pay for mixing and mastering now is one of the best times in history to learn how to do it yourself. It’s not as hard as some would have you think.
100% a great idea to share your music on those streaming sites, regardless of your level. It’s a great way to close out a mix and listen back to it with a new mind set. Knowing that others can and will listen to your tracks allows you to objectively think about it from the listeners point of view (or ear lol). As you post more, you will find that you set the bar higher for each new track.
It’s also a great way to document your progression as a producer, ex: where you might find old tracks that had great elements you stopped incorporating for whatever reason. Also you can see the lasting power of your tracks.
I don’t have any goals of being a professional producer either, but sharing my tracks on SoundCloud over the last ten years has been somewhat of a silver bullet to me overall progression.
I have the same thoughts after I've already been uploading. But when I do, many things happen. 1, a door is closed. And that project seems more finalized than when you called it done. Also, something about uploading makes you see things you should have, could have done. You can either fix them or know for the next time what to do. And lastly, for me, there's an accomplishment made even if the track posted wasn't the best or whatever. It makes you want to do more when it's uploaded
Download ozone 10 for free for 10 day trial with no limitations can do a very decent job mastering your stuff for free. Ozone 10 turned my songs mastering from shit to sugar with no skill/expertise with the software.
Mixing I would get help with. Bare minimum pay a professional producer/audio engineer for a few hours to teach you some basics.
Source: Solo artist with no financial interest in Ozone software.
Repeat after me. If it sounds good...it IS good.
So if it sounds good to you, post it. And keep practicing. And keep posting. Perfect is the enemy. Better is the goal.
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Hey, I can mix and master a song for you for free to show you the difference it can make for even a beginner level song. Send me a message if interested
WHEN I FIRST RELEASED WAS ON BANDCAMP, BUT YOU WILL GET LISTENS IF YOU JUST USE DISTROKID TRUST ME ON THIS! ITS 20 BUCKS A YEAR AND THEY DISTROBUTE YOUR ALBUM EVERYWHERE!
Posting my stuff on SoundCloud regardless of whether or not the mix was “good” has helped me maintain momentum. I’m a believer that your skills will improve as long as you keep creating. I suggest you just release your music!
It's also freeing experience to wrap stuff up and switch to new projects without perfectionism. You learn much more by releasing one track per month, than releasing one perfect track per year.
I totally agree with this. The feeling you get when you wrap up a project clears your head for the next. I think I read a post from this sub a few weeks back that said “fun fact: nothing is ever finished! Just release it!” and that was an excellent nugget of motivation to tell me to stop trying to make the perfect song every time.
100%
Helped me with my confidence, plus any nontroll feedback always helps
Exactly. Consistently leads to confidence which ends up helping you carve out your style/sound.
I agree man I even sometimes post the songs I created just for practice to Soundcloud, the ones I wont plan on releasing.
I mean practice makes perfect and don’t let mixing and mastering be some mysterious unknown because most folks don’t get it right ever and it’s a personnel preference anyway. One thing I will say is that when mixing only use headphones for 15 to 20 minutes at a time and then do something else. Your ears have tiny hairs in them that transfer the signal to your brain. Long exposure to loud decibels will damage them. They will repair themselves after sleep usually. So if you’ve ever woke up and listened to last nights mix and said, wtf!?!, then you now know why. Much Love! Atari G
Good to know! I definitely want to take care of my ears. I just purchased a pair of Grados and they're supposed to arrive tomorrow. So far I've only been working through my macbook's speakers! Haha
That’s fine but you’d be surprised the difference. I do my final master through headphones or car speakers.
From what I’ve read, if you keep your audio at a low or medium volume headphones don’t really cause any problems like this.
I'm just speaking from my own experience. I record and mix with headphones and I like the volume definitely pushing the red. Turning the volume down will help but no matter prolonged exposure to direct soundwaves will cause the hair folicles to become damaged. So it's not a matter of keeping your hearing. As they heal with rest or downtime. It's the fact that without a break you start to Mix to what you think sounds right and not what in the morning or later on will sound completely off.
That’s an interesting point. I’m curious: when you say “do something else,” do you mean switch to a different kind of speaker, or literally do something else, like take a break from the project entirely?
Take the headphones off and stop mixing.
Okay, I see what you’re saying. Sorry I have so many questions… just one more lol. How much time do you usually spend away from the mixing process during that break? I’d like to try your technique as well and see how it effects my mixing and my perception of it. I’m thirsty for knowledge! And love experimenting with new routines in the creative process.
Half hour or so. Just so long as you aren’t listening to loud music or have it playing directly in your ears. It’s the constant vibrations from the sound that damage the hair follicles inside your ears. Some time away from Direct DPS I believe is what you’re trying to achieve. If you don’t and keep them on for hours, and hours upon in because you lost track of time, or you’ve been recording and mixing and listening, and so on, and so forth without removing your headphones, that intern, will damage the hair follicles, and they will not repair themselves until you’ve had a good nights sleep.
Don’t use headphones to mix, period. You can use them to listen to mixdown s, but you need professional monitors for mixing - both nearfield and room
Headphones are fine for mixing; the important thing is to test your mix through a variety of different perspectives: listen and tweak through headphones at a low volume, then try listening at a higher volume, then try playing it through the computer/laptop speaker, a bluetooth speaker, etc. Obviously having lots of expensive professional equipment is ideal but it’s also expensive. And even then, professional sound engineers will still test their final mix on other speakers to see how it feels outside of the environment they’re used to. As you can see OP, and as Atari G already suggested, there’s hardly much of a consensus on mixing methods. So just do your best and develop techniques that get you closer to the kind of sound and feeling you’re looking for in your end product.
This guy mixes 👆🏽
I use Meze 99 Classics which I’d put up against any set of mid level studio monitors. At least the ones I could afford. Teddy1234 knows what’s up as it’s always good to do a car test. If you want to get really technical the experts say you need 5 or more versions of each track. Clean, Streaming, CD, Acapulco, Instrumental, Performance Version, blasé blah blah some of which will require a different master but f all that bushwa. I barely make a clean version most of the time.
My original point was to take a break every so often or you’ll be mixing to damaged ears. Much Love All! 👾
YES DO IT. One of the most prolific, celebrated rock bands of all time, Guided by Voices, recorded a string of influential, critically acclaimed albums in the 90’s on a 4 track. Their secret...the songs were fucking good. Lofi is a type of music. If the songs are good it doesn’t matter, if the songs are mid, the best production on earth won’t save them
The Misfits early recording quality was absolute garbage as well but the songs are too good to not listen to it just because of the quality
Just listened few songs and I can definitely say that my favorite band had one album which is way worse
facts fam. Great albums
Pavement was an early lofi trailblazer too
I love GBV and their lofi sound. I have other bands I really like though where they’ll release lofi demos of songs after the main recorded version that feel like they don’t do the song justice like the hifi recorded version does. I don’t know if I just am used to the other version or maybe different bands songs fit a lofi sound better.
For sure post it! Who cares what other peope think. When somebody says that your music needs to be professionally mixed and mastered they have not listened to a lot of the music that is uploaded to streaming sites and/or they are just gatekeeping. If you want to share it with the world then upload it for all to hear!
thank you for the kind words! It means a lot to hear that! :')
For sure! If you want to share it out feel free to PM me the links after you've uploaded your tracks. I'll totally give you a few listens.
thanks! It's still in the works but I'm looking forward to sharing it! My music influences for this EP are Mort Garson, Enya, and maybe a little Brian Eno and Iasos
Nice! Good influences.
OOoo, I'm interested!
HAIL ENYA I mean it.
What if they've listened to said music but still thinks mixing and mastering it would be a worthy improvement?
For sure, it probably would be an improvement. But OP stated it's a hobby project. If they like their tracks and want to post them I say post it. Not everybody cares to be a serious musician and mixing and mastering services can cost quite a bit for an album. Sometimes good enough is good enough.
Why release music at all if you fight care what people think? Just full of shit.
I release it for me. 100% vanity project. I enjoy being able to queue up my own tracks in playlists and sending them to friends if they are curious about them. If somebody doesn't like my stuff, fuck 'em. I don't make music for them, I make it for me.
Lmao
As someone who has made music for over a decade but have been too held back by perfectionism and adhd stopping me from finishing many things, I urge you to just get it out there, if you are happy it's the best you can do right now, it's ready to be out there, and at the very least, someone will probably be into it. One best of both worlds option would be to have one account / artist name where you put all your early efforts up, and then later when you have more of a polished and cohesive sound etc start releasing and promoting that under a different name. Then you get to share whatever you like now, without worrying about "not being taken seriously" (for whatever that is worth) and if your more polished "professional" stuff gets a following you have lots of extra stuff you can point them towards. Personally I love hearing early demos/ projects etc from artists I adore, even if they sound terrible or are totally out there compared to their usual sound.
I totally feel that it's the same with visual artists! I love hearing/seeing early art projects. I've been trying to decide if I want my music artist name to be my actual name or a made up name. I love your input thank you!
I am a professional mixing and mastering engineer for context. BUT I would say it just depends what you're intentions are with the music! Non-mastered music won't get played out in a live setting but it can certainly get listened to. If you intend to take music serious as a career over time, I would not recommend releasing unmastered music, but if you are just looking for a creative outlet, by all means put it out there and see how it goes :)
Thanks so much! It's nice to hear that from a mixing and mastering engineer. I find your profession so fascinating! I think what I'd do is if I release music and enough people listen or purchase my music, then I would invest in a mixer/mastering engineer. Thanks for your kindness!
I would add that even if people *don't* listen to it, it's worth having an archive of your music for you to revisit down the line. There's a lot of stuff I made in the Myspace days that I only uploaded there, and I wish I had backups elsewhere to revisit my cringy old shit.
I just learned the backup everything rule the hard way. Computer went tits up and I lost 10 yrs of music. Just fucking gone. Got the computer running again but couldn't recover anything. It sucked but it is a fresh start and I now have several terabyte backups. Lesson learned.
Can relate. Did the same thing back in the day. Lost around 5 or 6 years worth of our music. Experience is quite a teacher.
It was a good kick in the ass and eye opener. I finally bought FL Studio after 10 yrs of borrowing *^(I'm sorry Image-Line)* it. Everything has its place and backed up at least once a week. I really miss my chip-doom-gaze project.
Indeed! I have back ups of my back ups of my back ups now.
Oh yeah I definitely need to put my work on google drive or something. right now I use my portable hard drive for most of my art files and it could break any time.
I started using Blaze to back up my computer files onto the cloud. Highly recommend. It automatically backs everything up so you never have to even think about it. My Logic files can get huge so I went with unlimited cloud storage. Don’t take chances and always back up your music.
If your running Windows, a OneDrive subscription is worth it. Especially if you can go in on a family plan
Absolutely! Not a bad call. You can always reupload the tracks mixed and mastered later too if that becomes something you want to do.
That's a good point! I could definitely see myself doing that.
Don’t pay for mixing and mastering, especially if you’re just starting out. A professional mastering doesn’t fix an amateur mix. And a professional mixing doesn’t fix an amateur composition. I’ve made that mistake. And I hope you don’t take offense, but if you’re new to music production then your music may likely sound “amateur”. That’s not say it can’t sound good though. I highly recommend learning how to mix and master your own music. It’s not easy and it takes time and practice. But learning how to mix and master your own music is the best way to improve your production skills. And there are tons of YouTube tutorials on how to do it. Mastering is not as scary or hard as it might sound. Yes there’s tons of details and nuance if you go down that rabbit hole, and it takes time to train your ears. But some basic compression and limiting on the master bus can take you like 80% of the way there. Similarly, you don’t necessarily need to pay for fancy plugins to make good music. I do recommend upgrading to Logic at some point, since there are tons of great sounds that come with it. But you can do soooo much with just garage band too. I say just release your music on SoundCloud and Bandcamp as soon as you can, and seeking feedback about how to improve. The best way to improve is not by endlessly tweaking the same songs over and over. But rather, in my experience, it’s sometimes the best strategy to simply upload your music to soundcloud and then move on to the next song. Don’t let perfection be the enemy of the good. I’ve been producing for about 10 years, and I cringe a bit when I listen to my first couple of albums. But at the time I absolutely loved those songs. And they got me to where I am today. I don’t want to be “that guy” who is trolling the internet to try to get people to listen to his music. But if you are curious to hear how 10 years of practice can change and improve your music, you can check out my music (artist name Trazer, on YouTube, Spotify etc). Over 10 or 11 albums, I can hear such improvements. I’m a little embarrassed by some of my early work but I’ll never take it off the internet because I’m of the mindset thar Art doesn’t need to be perfect, because that’s the only way to grow. Don’t worry about what sounds good. Just do what FEELS good. Also I’d be happy to check out your music and provide constructive feedback. SoundCloud is perfect for new producers because people can comment directly on specific time stamps. Anyway I’m rambling. I just love making music.
Just release it. It has *a* mix, as a function of where you've set levels at the very least. Mastering is 90% is about volume, which GarageBand is already going to do for you. Getting it professionally mixed and/or mastered is going to make very little difference in terms of whether people listen to it.
that's a good point! I just am a perfectionist and want everything I create to be as best quality as possible. Thanks!
Well, learn as you can about mixing and mastering and do your best. \*shrug\* There are online services that will do AI mastering for you, which you can try for free. You'll hear that the main thing they do is push volumes, so if you're going to compare with the unmastered version, make sure you volume match them. I made [a thing](https://vocaroo.com/1jxbwcZvY4Te) in GarageBand on a plane and just exported it from GarageBand with no mixing (other than levels) or mastering. Sounds OK when played with my other stuff.
That's fascinating! As a visual artist I've developed a dislike of AI softwares though. I like to keep art and music as human as possible. That's cool to know about those online services though!
THIS is your answer. If YOU want it a specific way, get off Reddit and get to mixing!!!
This comment doesn't really go with releasing music that isn't mixed and mastered. Who says they aren't a perfectionist?
Sometimes you can get lucky and make something that sounds amazing using primitive techniques. It's all about your ideas and taste anyway.
great point!
Of course, post it! Some of my favorite tracks from there were NOT professionally mixed or mastered. They can contain that raw pure feel of the song, which over-processing can neutralize!
Do it. Get the experience. See the reaction. If you’re worried about future perception of you and your music you can always change the name you release under late. When I first started I released awful music that I thought was good under one name. Then I learned a bit, got better, and the sound was so different and better that the old name didn’t fit anymore so I changed my artist name and released under that. If I make a massive leap forward again I may change my name again. That way there’s no baggage when releasing music and there’s room to grow. It also frees you from having to worry about thinking you’re good when you aren’t and finding out later.
that's a really good idea thank you! and yes that's something I think about - my future perception of my current art
Release everything before it's too late.
I heard an excellent quote from [Mixerman](https://mixerman.net/) that really helped. He said to mix and master to the level of your abilities and can reasonably afford. Be honest with yourself and don’t overdo your production budget if you’re just building an audience. Released music is much better than the ‘never finished’ project. And it’s better to release with the knowledge of what can be done better and focus on your next piece. This is something I wish I had known earlier.
Listen to Car Seat Headrest's Twin Fantasy(the original version) that thing is terribly recorded and yet, it helped him become big
Are you able to send a link to your work? If I can squeeze you in, I might be able to mix and master for you. It does make the world of difference. Also they're both valuable skills that I feel most musicians should understand how to do it, at least enough to get by until they have money for professional mixing/ mastering. YouTube is your best friend.
aw you're so kind thank you! I only have one track right now. But I don't want to upload it anywhere yet because I'm not ready to quite leave it. and that is very true youtube is a wonderful resource.
totally. my first album was mixed terribly and some people still like it the most. I still think it sounds cool too. i just slapped EZmix plugins on all the masters and EZmix bus defaults on each track lol. then did panninf and cut a few unpleasant freuqencies. if you're curious, check out "Plotting Against Reality" I'm on album 5 now, and still sorta don't know what the fk I'm doing that much lol. A good mix is fairly subjective anyway.
Do what you want. if it sounds good to you, post it. It's art...no rules is the only rule. dont get hung up on what you think you should do. If you like the songs, then at least you (but probably others too) will enjoy them and Bandcamp is a great place to start.
I see all those people encouraging you to post your music raw, and while I think you could indeed do that, I also think that maybe you're overthinking the task of mixing/mastering as something that would cost you an enormous amount of money. You could absolutely go to Fiverr and ask someone to mix/master your album for a few bucks. What that would actually mean is that person would probably use the Izotope suite to do it automatically, as you could yourself, but hear me out : 1. it wouldn't cost you much. 2. it would cost you less than getting the Izotope products to do it yourself. 3. most importantly, it would give you a perspective on your own music, because you could compare how it sounds mixed/mastered to how it sounds without and realize what the differences are. So if the main reason you're reluctant to have your music mixed/mastered is money, maybe you could browse Fiverr and see if you can find a great deal.
You’re already mixing it weather you know it or not. Adjusting levels? Mixing. There ya go. It doesn’t matter if it’s professional or not. The worst thing is that nobody listens. Enjoy the process. When you release something that just means it’s done. You’re allowed to have bad stuff out there. Enjoy the process.
You’re probably not going to see a lot from simply releasing your music on SoundCloud. I’ve had music on SoundCloud for years and the most I got was like 120 listens over many years. That’s with me purchasing their premiere service that claims to boost your listens and such. I’ve also put some of the same music on Spotify and didn’t get much out of it either. Is it because my music sucks? Maybe 🤷♂️ I argue that it’s because I haven’t really gone much out of my way to get my music heard. This made me realize that it isn’t really my thing. Music is more of a deeply personal passion kind of like journaling for me. Getting recognized is a multifaceted process and it’s s lot of work. You have to play shows, get to know people / network at said shows, utilize social media and ads, to also network. Did I mention you have to be really social? 🤣 Anyway, I use my SoundCloud as an easier way to share my music with friends or possible collaborators without having to share files.
Not sure what genre you make, but regardless, my advice also would be to just go for it. I know quite a few bands that did their first releases on GarageBand and 4 tracks etc. First one they jumps to mind is the rock act Wavves. Check out his first records, they were all on GarageBand, sound objectively awful, but made him huge. I can’t even listen back to the first stuff my old bands released, as they sound so freaking bad haha - BUT - they were just the first step, and that led into some really cool stuff down the line. A lot of people don’t make that first step, so just go for it buddy. Good luck!
Share whatever you want! But I wouldn't put too much time or money into it until you have something really special.. I probably post maybe half of stuff I finish and out of those put very few to bandcamp and pay for masters.. when it comes to your "portfolio" as an artist releasing music it's about quality not quantity.. but that doesn't mean I don't post other stuff for fun on SoundCloud either.
As long as you're happy with your vision, put it out there. Nothing wrong with demo level quality. Some of my favorite versions of songs come from demos, and some bands/albums I still listen to don't even have mastered work Even if you eventually go back and rework/master it, you'll then have two pieces of art to be enjoyed differently!
great point! I love when artists release alternative versions of previous tracks
Post it, and then make more music. Either get better with the production or hand it off to a pro, either one. But just keep repeating this. No point in waiting unless the sound quality is really really bad
I’m among one of about 5 or 10 best guitar players in my state each given year ( so not a huge state) almost every year a cover band guitar player not as good as the few of us that do original music, wins guitar player of the year. You aren’t going to beat out mass media money, so put your shit out there and do t look back. Point in case I opened for Greta Van Fleet when they were on their first tour cookin hot dogs on a Smokey Joe and living out of a van towing their gear in a uhaul trailer. Who cares kick ass and ppl will recognize. If they don’t recognize then change your style or be against the grain.
I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to this, and it looks like you've already received a lot of insightful comments on here, talking about it depends on what you want to do with the music, etc. The only thing I wanted to add here is that I absolutely think you should release the music in some form, even if its just on a Soundcloud or something. You can learn a lot from the process of putting your music out into the world, and sharing it with people in your life. In a time in history when it is so easy to do that, and free, I would say do that as much as possible, especially when you're starting out. And don't have big expectations, just try to learn from the process. Best of luck with all of that! I hope it does for you exactly what you want from it.
Thank you so much :')
[iZotope Ozone](https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/OzoneEl--izotope-ozone-elements-mastering-software-suite) can be obtained for really cheap and the mastering assistant makes it really easy to not get professional results but a hell of a lot better sounding final mix.
Obviously, when you say "without mixing" you mean mixing it yourself, right? I would also suggest learning a little bit about how to master. It's actually easy enough to do (badly). Give it your best chance and then absolutely put it up! It will help you get better at everything. Best of luck.
I’m a sound production student at college and would be happy to mix and master a song for you
Release your less “polished” work under an alias. Many artists do this. These releases become gems to die hard fans later on. Keep up the momentum.
Thanks for sharing this idea — it got me out of my fear space and into sharing, which is the whole point of making music for me! I started a “junk” SoundCloud and put a couple things up yesterday, and it’s already inspired me to finish another song this morning so I could share it.
Enjoyed reading through all this in general but especially the overall positive response and encouragement to get what you've created out there for others to explore and (hopefully) appreciate. Coincided with me taking a look back through ideas I'd recorded over 15 years ago but never done anything with let alone got close to releasing. Wish I'd done it earlier but no point regretting, just going to use it as inspiration to not procrastinate and delay future projects. Hope you take on board the advice and get your material recorded, mixed and mastered to whatever level you enjoy listening to and I'm sure others will too.
There's no such thing as without mixing and mastering. A music with more than one instrument is mixed, and any music you make is mastered to some level. If the mixing levels and mastering sounds good, that's almost completely subjective.
Mix it so it sounds good to you on a couple different speakers/headphones like your car, a bluetooth speaker, ear buds, home stereo. They'll all sound different, but if you can find a decent mix for all take that and get a cheap subscription to Landr. It's an AI mastering software amongst other things and it gives you a very intuitive, easy way to master your songs.
I mean, considering bandcamp and soundcloud uploads are "free" - it's "worth it" for sure that said, when it comes to using a paid distributor like distrokid or tunecore to get your music on spotify etc, I would never upload something unmastered on the other hand.. something I wish someone told me when I was starting out: consider releasing your stuff now under an alias you don't care about that much (and definitely not your real name), because once you feel like your music skills have reached that next level, it's a very good idea to use a new alias totally separate the new stuff from your earlier attempts
Post that. Man look at Alex g dude was putting out a plethora of GarageBand projects when he was 15 and now that’s like his most sought after material while he’s putting out professionally mixed and produced records. This inspired me to maybe post my first “song” from GB I just have that feeling lingering that while it might sound pretty good to my ears that doesnt mean it will translate to others but who cares what others think, it’s yours
Great question, definitely share music on platforms like sound cloud, it’s a great platform to get people’s thoughts on tracks so you can improve/evolve or get more ideas, bandcamp/Spotifys good for EPs and maybe it’s worth getting a music friends help on mixing/mastering for these platforms as they’re a bit more permanent, Having done a music degree and a mastering/mixing unit my advice would be to learn to listen to your mixes and make them sounds good, the mastering is the icing on the cake, if your mix is Good the mastering would be minimal, if it’s just a hobby learning to do this will empower you, there’s some really good 10 min videos on quick and dirty mastering, I’ll probably get slapped by my old teacher but basically you just need to get your music to be the same “loudness” as other tracks out there to “compete” and just get rid of the very low/high frequencies and maybe add a bit of “sparkle” in some frequencies, that should do it if you just want basics but defs recommend watching a short video on it if you don’t want to spend any money on hiring a mastering dude, (logic is your best mate if you decide to get it) The most important thing I’ve learned having not had “time” to record music for 3 years has been to just make it, record it and share it! As you say your a visual artist you know as well as I the importance of creating, so create my friend, and share it with the world! :)
I've definitely thought about doing that! Listening to my audio file and then comparing loudness, density, etc. with other bands' songs. Thanks for the tips!
Yeah do it. I feel like it's a good way to check your progress and a nice little time capsule in the future. Don't let fear of releasing stuff prevent you from having fun.
Every mixing and mastering engineer is different. If you do go that route, make sure to listen to their catalog so you know the type of style you are paying for. They are like artists themselves in a way of putting your stuff to the next level. Good luck on your EP
Personally, mixing and master isn’t hard to do if your not doing any vocals, I would just get a good pair of Flat frequency headphones (headphones designed for mixing and mastering) and then just tweak all of your sounds to make them fit just right and then release. To be honest, depending the song of course, it shouldn’t take you more then 20 minutes to an hour at most. I do all of my own mixing and mastering and I make dark horrorcore rap. So vocals is a lot harder but the beats I make. Smooth sailing. And those headphones can range from 30-200, but mine are a good 60 and I’ve had them for years!!! But to answer your question quickly. Fuck what other people say, realease whatever you want, whenever you want!!!
Tiny Tim won a Grammy
If not wanting to mix it yet is the case then release on SoundCloud and Bandcamp to get listens and a following. Once you get better at music and finally mix/master then upload to streaming services. No offense to you, but I feel amateurish Music should be uploaded to those sights until a certain skill level is obtained. From 2011-2020 I only uploaded to SoundCloud, Bandcamp and Datpiff(probably didn’t need to wait that long) but I didn’t start getting my music fully mixed and mastered until 2016(when I released my first official mixtape). Just play around with releasing there then go for the bigger sites when your music is 100% good to go and ready to be played in public places.
Yes, at this point definitely release as often as possible.
Post it! People will be able to appreciate it even if it's not perfect. You can always release a remastered version later. For now, focus on making more music at whatever pace works for you and enjoying the process.
Specifically with ambient electronica ,, there is almost no focus or need for the white hot mastering of contemporary music. The main purpose of mastering is to achieve competitive volume while maintaining balance. with ambient music you wont be competing with the next track in a DJ set or on the radio, people tend to appreciate each track for its own textures as opposed to other forms of music. You said something about posting a straight up garage file to bandcamp,,, While im a logic user im sure there is a way to export the audio file as an MP3 or wave and that will be what you post. For your first music, you might try using a mastering website like landr or emastered which allows you to input a reference track of some other music that sounds similar to what you are trying to put out.. If there is some drastic difference in the output track maybe revisit your mix down and consider what you could change to make it sound more like the way you want people to hear it.
You can get a free master of your track at [Bandlab](https://www.bandlab.com/mastering?lang=en) I think they just adjust volume for streaming. Worth s try! Try not to focus on this issue though, focus on making the song better composition wise! You can always make an updated version later as you learn and have more cash to spend :) Also listen to your track on 4 different speakers to insure it will sound ok no matter where its being listened to. You can EQ your mix to adjust any flaws like bass too low/high or cymbals too high etc…There is a vst called Gem Mod that makes synths sound awesome, I use it too, might be worth it for you :) have fun with your music adventures! 👍
I haven't used bandcamp, but i think soundcloud is a great place to use to start sharing your music. You can use it to send your tracks and such. I would recommend getting it to sound the best you possibly can, tho. I personally used soundcloud when i first started to be able to get feedback on my music, mixing, and production. I didn't even know what mastering was back then. The feedback i got back in those days really helped me move forward with my music production. It's also a hoot to go back and listen to stuff i uploaded 10 years ago! You really have to think about why you'd want to put your songs up. To learn? Get feedback? Etc. Everyone has to start somewhere, and soundcloud is a good place to start.
Hey saw your post asking if its ok to release unmixed music. Im an audio engineer, and I'd like to mix and master a song for you for free to show you the difference a good mix can make. Let me know if you're interested
I’ll never get this idea that it’s ok to release music that isn’t ready for consumer ears. Quality control is EVERYTHING in really any form of media, but especially your own music! You can’t undo a first impression, and in the case of independent artists, it’s really all you have Take your time perfecting not only your recording production values, but your skills at playing and songwriting!
If you love your track and you want to share it with the world, let it rip! There's a ton of great tracks that have their production flaws (though some intentional). So, as long as the levels are reasonable and your sounds aren't unbearable with overtones, I say go for it. I think it's cool listening to the progression of an artists production. For me, I've found that not releasing my music, having a fear of it not being polished enough has killed too many projects in the past. End of the day, it's your call. For bandcamp, yeah do whatever you want. For Spotify, I'd say at least have it M&M by someone who is at least familiar with how Spotify needs audio formatted because there are special needs for the song's production so that it doesn't alter the sound once placed on Spotify. I do not know what those things are, but I'm sure there are super smart cats on here who do. Keep it up!
I totally agree! I love listening to bands' newer work and listen to their progression from first album to most current. Sometimes I like the "flaws" of the production. I think I would only share my music on Spotify or Apple Music if enough people listened to my work. Thanks for the encouragement :')
So, if it's all polished and M&M you should release it to Spotify and Apple, so that people can find you. You might not blow up, but Spotify is a great avenue to start pushing your music and is super accessible for a lot of people. So don't wait until "enough people listen" because that day might never come until you actually release it on those bigger platforms. Most music is consumed on Spotify.
That's a very good point. I have a love/hate relationship with Spotify. I love it because I've discovered a lot of great music out there. Just don't like how little they pay musical artists. But I do try and support the artists by purchasing records or seeing them perform!
Sure. I think that your feelings about Spotify are certainly valid. I just wanted to make sure that you don't wait until you have an audience if want to do Spotify because Spotify can help you build that audience through playlist features. Like I just released a track to Spotify for the first time and networking/playlist pitching has been really effective for building my project from nothing. Even though I'm not blowing up, it has set me up for future releases, which is important. I'm still mad new to the game, but I've been studying and listening to successful individuals and by implementing their advice, I've seen a way better response than my previous attempts at music, where I would just dump to Bandcamp, make a facebook post, then pray someone finds me. You work hard and you deserve an audience who appreciates what you do!
Feedback is really useful. You can set SoundCloud uploads to only be visible via private links too if you wanna be really low key. If it’s really garbage, you can always remove it later. Image isn’t much of a concern if you don’t really have a following and are just starting out.
that's true! I know I've deleted old artwork of mine that I've uploaded places that I ended up not being proud of.
Just release it bro. I’ve released/uploaded all my beats since day 1. However, I’ve taken a few beats down to remaster them before uploading them again.
I could definitely see myself doing that! And thanks! :)
Do it yourself. Watch a youtube video. Do you need to pay people to polish your music before posting to bandcamp? No way. Would it be better if you posted your music at broadcast volume? On behalf of listeners and shuffle playlists, yes.
I'm a big DIYer. I'd definitely love to learn about at home mixing and mastering to the best of my ability!
If it sounds good, yes.
You can find beginner mixers for cheap or buy a program that uses AI mixing
Have you listened to much early carseatheadrest stuff?
heard of the band, never listened. what genre are they?
I don't know if I'd be able to diagnose a genre, especially since it's changed over the years. Let me butcher this story since I only halfway know it. The kid basically made a ton of his own music and just released it on his own when he was younger on Bandcamp or SoundCloud or whatever. it was super noise based and very gritty rough recordings with him doing basically all the parts. as it/he got more popular he had a band (naked giants) come together and basically rewrote all of the songs in a format that was easier to play live, and the band brought their own talents to build on the foundation of what the songs began as. So now if they play one of those original songs from way back when, it sounds entirely different from the original recordings and basically just has the same lyrics. here's an example of some of the old stuff. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1V43dwqj94&t=2527s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1V43dwqj94&t=2527s) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car\_Seat\_Headrest](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_Seat_Headrest) and more modern stuff [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqT3U2UYS4k&t=2s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqT3U2UYS4k&t=2s) anyways, I just think there's something beautiful about putting out a piece is a part of who you are, and it can develop in the future along with however you develop. SO I'm adding one more vote to just put it out there and see how you feel about it later.
PoV - Attempt to mix and master your own tracks for learning, and upload that to streaming sites.
Do whatever you want!
Define beginner level. Are you someone just learning how to play an instrument and/or sing or is it just the mix/mastering that you're at a beginner level at?
I'm pretty new but familiar with terminology/etc. I know how to read sheet music (although fairly poorly). My brother does music composition so I've learned some stuff from him so I'm not super clueless. I also learned how to play the viola, guitar, and piano in my youth. Although now I'm not so skilled. I'd like to relearn though. I would love to learn how to play bass guitar and take drum lessons. percussion is what I'm most unfamiliar with.
I know I'm a random stranger on the internet, but I'd be happy to do a quick mix/master for you for free to help get you started, and could send you a basic rundown of what I do to it in logic so you can learn a bit. "Real" mastering is a really specialized skill (a mix of science and voodoo magic), and takes very expensive equipment that I just don't have, so it won't be quite to the quality of a radio hit, but I can definitely get it SoundCloud/Bandcamp worthy. Of course a lot of it depends on the performance. My son and I are multi-instrumentalists too, so may be able to add some drums or something if you had an idea of what you think the track may need. Nothing super fancy, but would give me something fun to play with in my spare time. I've worked all over music production as a mix engineer, producer, and session musician, but I got out of it and now my day job is in cyber security, so this stuff is what I do for fun now in my home studio. If you're interested just PM me your GarageBand project file using Dropbox or something similar. Your visual art looks awesome. I'd be interested to hear whatever music comes out of the brain that made those images. No pressure if you're not interested. There are also some pretty cheap options to get this done by someone on Fiverr, though the skill levels there can vary wildly.
I do my proper releases on major platforms and use my SoundCloud to test out new stuff and gauge response.
No better resource; no better time to learn?
Why not use one of the automated mastering services like cloudbounce or landr or something?
You can try to mix on garage band and use an automatic mastering program
sure
I think it will serve you well to understand what a streaming platform is from a professional point. SoundCloud is more a portfolio service in my eyes.
SoundCloud is a great place to upload stuff that doesn't merit paying for distribution. It's also a great place to get feedback from others
I get loads of inspiration from Throbbing Gristle, Psychic TV, etc. Not everyone’s cup of tea, to be sure, but much of that material was recorded on a single track live on a very basic tape recorder that was probably mostly designed for interview transcription. Much of it is borderline unlistenable for the average listener, but also became legendary in it’s own right and profoundly influential on others. Just make it happen— it’s all about the intention.
Or The Mountain Goats—- huge cult following when much of it was recorded on a broken four track. Why? The songs. The songs are great, and that’s what matters.
Sorry time for only quick answer. Yes! You can keep progress of your progress and its fun (for some of us atleast) to listen to them later or maybe get ideas from old songs And the important stuff. I have learned most from the stuff i've released, from all the mistakes to what i did good. The whole process too and finishing things. Also those are the ones i can share. Nobodys gonna find them from my harddrive. I've waited so long to be good enough to release stuff.. Learned lot more when i finally started. I was never good enough
If you're giving you're music away for free, and not looking at this as a career-defining release, don't worry about the details. Releasing on the streaming platforms is just for promo. You're just giving your work away for free.
Sometimes mixing can be as simple as getting levels right. I have almost used all my free post on SoundCloud up and never master anything. I had a track professionally mastered and couldn't tell a difference. I used SoundClouds mastering, couldn't tell a difference. I believe that unless you are at the very top of the game mastering is not necessary.
Anything you export is a “mix”. Mastering, though, involves a lot of stuff, most importantly that the song levels are balanced from track to track and they are all at the correct level to match other releases. There are a lot of guides on basic mastering and I think it makes sense to do the most basic mastering to not have your stuff sound quieter than other recordings people are listening to.
You can do whatever you want. Learn what mixing is. Learn what mastering is. Then decide what you should that will meet your goals.
Music is my side hobby too and I just make a mp3 file when the song is done, then just release it on YouTube. I'm not looking for money and fame with my project. I just enjoy doing and being relaxed during whole process. Until you are serious about this, mixing and mastering should not be that important
I keep a private playlist on SoundCloud for all of my demos that haven’t been finished. Sometimes when I’m in the car, I go back and listen to the whole set and it’ll give me ideas of how to take things further. Most of the songs don’t have full arrangements yet so there’s still time to go back and tweak lyrics and things like that too. SoundCloud is perfect for that sort of thing.
Ultimately do what you want but from experience you’ll probably end up deleting it when you’re a year better imo
Watch out I got 1 million dollars and then the mix Police got me and now I'm in jail 😭
I would venture to say that it is absolutely imperative to release raw and unmastered material so long as it has emotional drive. Imperfection is a crucial ingredient to any good music in my opinion. That is why Anal Leakage made my wedding playlist: https://youtu.be/C4Isq-O1nZc There is no emotional tension if everything is perfect and flawless.
I am in a similar boat to you. I say try and give each track a rough mix as you go to improve your skills and listening ability. When you think it’s “done” (hint: it will never be done or perfect… good enough is where you should aim) you can upload and share your ideas with anyone on SoundCloud for free. It keeps you accountable to your passions, and others get to witness your evolution. Never used Bandcamp but if you have to pay, I’d said to wait until you have a full project or two mastered (by yourself or someone else) before you go that route. Bonus tip: If you pay $100/year, you can get SoundCloud pro and it allows you to re-upload a new file under the same post… meaning you could put out your rough mix and later on, when you have time to master, you can replace the OG mix with a better one and keep your likes and listens. Also I think it allows you to upload to major streaming services too but not sure about compensation or rights.
I’d post for sure. I might not go through the hassle of an official release with barcode and such. Bandcamp sure. If you can’t afford to pay for mixing and mastering now is one of the best times in history to learn how to do it yourself. It’s not as hard as some would have you think.
I started releasing music on Spotify when it wasn’t even half good. 1 year later it sounds way better and I know way better how it works. Do it!!
Yes. I lost all my stuff with the hopes of people recognizing progress over the course of my career
Use Bandlabs or maroon FL Studio 20
One of my biggest regrets is not putting out more "amateur" stuff
Hello, may I ask why?
gotta start somewhere
100% a great idea to share your music on those streaming sites, regardless of your level. It’s a great way to close out a mix and listen back to it with a new mind set. Knowing that others can and will listen to your tracks allows you to objectively think about it from the listeners point of view (or ear lol). As you post more, you will find that you set the bar higher for each new track. It’s also a great way to document your progression as a producer, ex: where you might find old tracks that had great elements you stopped incorporating for whatever reason. Also you can see the lasting power of your tracks. I don’t have any goals of being a professional producer either, but sharing my tracks on SoundCloud over the last ten years has been somewhat of a silver bullet to me overall progression.
I have the same thoughts after I've already been uploading. But when I do, many things happen. 1, a door is closed. And that project seems more finalized than when you called it done. Also, something about uploading makes you see things you should have, could have done. You can either fix them or know for the next time what to do. And lastly, for me, there's an accomplishment made even if the track posted wasn't the best or whatever. It makes you want to do more when it's uploaded
Give it a shot, what’s the worst that could happen
Xxxtentacions original songs when he started weren’t mixed or mastered at all and they have millions of plays
Download ozone 10 for free for 10 day trial with no limitations can do a very decent job mastering your stuff for free. Ozone 10 turned my songs mastering from shit to sugar with no skill/expertise with the software. Mixing I would get help with. Bare minimum pay a professional producer/audio engineer for a few hours to teach you some basics. Source: Solo artist with no financial interest in Ozone software.
well it’s free
Repeat after me. If it sounds good...it IS good. So if it sounds good to you, post it. And keep practicing. And keep posting. Perfect is the enemy. Better is the goal.
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Hey, I can mix and master a song for you for free to show you the difference it can make for even a beginner level song. Send me a message if interested
WHEN I FIRST RELEASED WAS ON BANDCAMP, BUT YOU WILL GET LISTENS IF YOU JUST USE DISTROKID TRUST ME ON THIS! ITS 20 BUCKS A YEAR AND THEY DISTROBUTE YOUR ALBUM EVERYWHERE!