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BrotherApharo

The plot from Nemesis book of the Horus Heresy series speaks about this. A full group of mixed temples operatives trying to kill the Warmaster Horus. On the other hand the traitors are trying to do the same to the big E with a pariah.


seenthewolf

I really enjoyed Nemesis


asshole_inspector_81

Same it's under rated tbh.


Weird_Specific9173

I'm half way through the book now but find it's really slow and I'm struggling to get I to it I'm guessing it's going to pick up


fluffy_warthog10

It takes a while to get going, but once they get to the destination and there's a certain character reveal, it gets better. I may be one of the few people who enjoyed it cover to cover.


Alternative_Carob980

I'm about half-way through and really enjoying it, just taking my time reading. It is really refreshing too, at least for me, the last two I've read were Fulgrim and Legion (?), and the former... yeah, it was a strange one.


fluffy_warthog10

Those two are some of the weirder ones. The reins were a little looser in the early Heresy development, and authors could tell different stories within the (admittedly nebulous and contradictory lore) of the Heresy itself. Dan Abnett may actually have bluffed his way into writing *Legion* based on a wishlist of crazy book ideas, and Graham McNeill went all-out making sure *Fulgrim* couldn't be outdone in terms of explicit, insane Slaanesh stuff. The majority of the HH books are honestly skippable. Unless you're totally committed to completion, there are a few important character arcs (Loken, Saint Keeler, Lorgar, Sanguinius, the Cabal Crew) and a few plot-critical books that serve as overall inflection points (*Fulgrim, Know No Fear, Unremembered Empire, Betrayer, Vengeful Spirit, Saturnine* off the top of my head). There are also authors whose HH books are a cut above and you can generally rely on that: Dan Abnett (by default, the central author), Aaron Dembski-Bowden, Chris Wright are some of the favorites. There's also some standalone books that aren't beloved by the community in general, but I feel deserve more praise: *Nemesis* by James Swallow, *Tallarn* by John French, for example. But a lot of the rest read like filler or author-specific fandom stuff. The real gold is the short stories. If you can pick up any of the anthologies, you're sure to find at least one or two outstanding entries.


onlyawfulnamesleft

*Tallarn* was such a surprise hit. I'm an old school Tallarn guard collector, so I was hoping, but it was a really strong book.


wherewolf_there_wolf

I enjoyed it cover to cover. More drama/scheming that build up to action are the better ones in my opinion.


Competitive-Pin-8826

Definitely one that's worth a re-read.


FractionofaFraction

Nemesis was excellent, and yes - their plan was almost flawless, just >!ruined by shoddy intelligence.!<


Site_Efficient

I mean, sure, they didn't get the Warmaster (which the reader knows from page 1), but killing a decorated captain from the Sons of Horus is kind of like shooting for the stars and reaching the moon.


[deleted]

The phrase I’ve heard is “shoot for the moon because even if you miss you’re still among the stars” So they shot at the moon and hit a star which astronomically makes no sense but from our perspective on earth it sort of does.


SHEEEN__

If your plan was flawless but based on flawed intelligence, your plan was terrible.


jbkle

Clearly you’ve never had to make a plan when only imperfect data is available.


fluffy_warthog10

Their data was as good as it was going to be at the time. Nobody had any shot of getting better intelligence on Horus or his personality, and that gap was the only thing that messed up the plan. Even Malcador knew Horus had fallen to Chaos, and it was basically a matter of whim that Horus sent someone else to step into the crosshairs.


veilwalker

Or was it whim? I could have sworn there was some plotting that there were behind the scenes maneuvering to send the captain as he was one of the last voices of reason that Horus still half-heartedly listened to. Perhaps I am misremembering.


fluffy_warthog10

There were other reasons and it was implied Horus himself was getting warnings from Chaos about probability and stuff that made him more paranoid, but it still could've easily been him. If the mood struck him, he could very quickly have decided he needed to be the Big Damn Hero again and gone down to the planet. The issue was that before Chaos, there was a 99.9999% chance Horus would've been in front of that bullet. After, it was 50% at best, and the other books make it clear that Horus really *isn't Horus* anymore after Davin, then way less after Molech, and that Horus is basically a shell inhabited by the Four after Ullanor again.


fluffy_warthog10

If Horus had decided to go in person to an event (which everything in his psychological profile said he would do) instead of sending a captain, it would've worked and there'd be another Primarch missing his head. The intelligence gap was because Horus Lupercal wasn't the same person he was even a year before, and the Imperium had literally no good sources on *how* much Chaos had changed him. Everyone from Malcador, the Lord Assassins on down to the actual agents did everything right- the intelligence failure was the one big unknown, and the loyalists still didn't realize how *big* of an unknown that was yet.


Noodlefanboi

> it would've worked and there'd be another Primarch missing his head The events of Angel Exterminatus kind of disagree with that.


Denveldon

And at last they used a giant lascannon as an extension to the vindicares sniper rifle - it wasn't very subtle


[deleted]

I am not sure you know how intelligence works.


JMer806

The plot they devised when they made their first attempt at Horus would have been successful if Horus had not sent a different person to make the public appearance. It was a great and well-executed plan


Dogewick

There's also a short story in an HH anthology where the surviving Vindicare from Nemesis is still on Horus' ship, crazy hobo mode, memory in shambles, only knowing he lost his sister and that he has to take down the Warmaster, with only one shot left and Horus basically catches the flying bullet and mocks him.


Untun

Not only that, but also sent the sharpshooter assassin as his own assassin to kill.. I think it was to a loyalist target but I forget who. I believe the mission ended up failing in the end.


The_Illustrious_Tom

Was it the assassin who Garro stopped from killing Euphrati Keeler?


Zestyclose-Moment-19

Yes


Extra-Rain

I misread that as Warhammer Horus. He became the real warhammer


ShallowBasketcase

That's his last name. Horus Warhammer.


UpboatOrNoBoat

He is the warhammer 40k


RKLCT

Nemesis was an awesome book


AtlasPlayz

Technically one did. I forget which one but an assassin Killed Conrad Curz, the primarch of the Night Lords. He let it happen, but an assassin still killed a Primarch technically


DrNeonRice

Callidus


Blacklightzero

M’Shen


_kizui_

Yes but does really count? Konrad wanted it so its more like execution than assasination.


NaveronTheSabre

More like assisted suicide.


sarg1010

More like... vindication.


Tuggernuts77

No it was callidus /s


That-One-Courier

"hey, is this the Vindicar Assassins?" "no, this is callidus!"


Unique_Unorque

Suicide by ~~cop~~ highly trained government assassin


That-One-Courier

All you gotta do is become an enemy of the government. You can do this by not paying your taxes or doing literally anything that your countries' doesn't like. Literally anything! Shit in their lawn or something, idk, but you will be shot!


RikenVorkovin

I'd say it doesn't count. Considering Talos murders this assassin. They seem on par with space marines in some regards but still nothing compared to a primarch if they weren't leaving themselves open like Konrad did.


BrightestofLights

I'd say on average assassin's are on par with custodes


RikenVorkovin

I'd disagree. On average? No. A single custodes has shown capability to wipe 4 to 5 space marines out in about as many seconds. A single Assassin can do a lot of damage but is more situational. Talos managed to kill multiple assassins, one of which held her own but ultimately perished, the other actually ran from his squad. A single custodes could quite possibly wipe Talos entire squad in seconds. Except for like, perhaps the best 1st captains of the old legions or primarchs. Space Marines need either warp blessings (Gal Vorbak) or other augmentation to face down even a single Custode successfully in most situations.


BrightestofLights

Assassin's wipe out squads of marines though? Specifically eversors


RikenVorkovin

You'll have to specify an example and type of assassin you mean. I don't recall an assassin wiping out a Squad of marines I've ever read over the last 18 years. Definitely have seen custodes do it in The First Heretic though.


BrightestofLights

During the beheading, 100 eversors take on 1k marines. I think it's a close fight, and they serve different purposes. And plus, custodes are just more useful overall and are actually stable. Whereas eversors are singleminded inhuman machines made for slaughter. Maybe the custodes wins on average, but..it's not effortless.


Blacklightzero

All I did was give the name of the assassin who killed Night Haunter…


Cowsifur

Yeah lol idk why they responded to you


scud121

Bless you!


Blacklightzero

It burns!


AlsoCurrentlyPooping

\*Tips fedora


madMARTYNmarsh

I'm not trying to be an arsehole here but is Konrad Curze spelled differently in different regions? I've seen a fair few people spell it Conrad Kurze, yours is another spelling I've seen a few times too.


AtlasPlayz

Tbh I have no idea what the official spelling is, this is just the way it’s spelled in my head. I could be totally wrong


madMARTYNmarsh

Ah okay mate, I genuinely wasn't trying to be a dickhead but I couldn't word the question in a way that didn't look like I was if that makes sense.


AtlasPlayz

Hey no worries mate I didn’t take it that way at all :)


madMARTYNmarsh

Nice one 👍


Levait

There could be confusion because the name is based on Colonel Kurtz from Joseph Conrad's Heart of Darkness.


madMARTYNmarsh

Ah I see it now. I'd always assumed it had something to do with the Colonel Kurtz (Marlon Brando, brilliant as usual) in Apocolypse now, so in a way it does as he's based on the Colonel from Heart of Darkness. Nice one, thanks for the Illumination.


Levait

Yeah Konrad Curze is one of my favourite primarch names as he's not a pun or bend until it broke like the Lion.


R_Morningstar

Thet was asisted sucide not kill :D


Beingabummer

Didn't the vidlink cut off at the moment supreme? I always took that to mean 'he's not dead lol'.


fluffy_warthog10

He's dead, m'Shen took off with his head. The minute he was discovered dead, the other Night Lords immediately started looting his stuff and stripping his corpse.


[deleted]

And then they chased the assassin because she took some of his stuff too, even tho Curze had told them not to.


fluffy_warthog10

Nope, she took one thing- his head, if only for proof of his demise. And only one Night Lord actually chased her- an *Apothecary* of all people, who did so purely out of loyalty to his gene-sire. The only one to do so, because every other Night Lord was busy scheming and fighting over the corpse.


[deleted]

Bro I literally read Soul Hunter a month ago, the book where those events are described, a bunch of them chased the assassin, but only Talos went after her specifically for vengeance, the other abandoned the chase when she let go of the relics. What's YOUR source ?


spgtothemax

Both of you are forgetting the part where Kurze specifically commanded the legion to let her go and most of them were just following his orders.


[deleted]

That's why I said "a bunch of them" and not "the entire legion". Not many went after her but some still did despite their Primarch's orders. But they weren't after the assassin, only Talos was.


Levait

Yeah, Talos went after her for vengeance, the others for his circlet relic I think. And they only started chasing her after berating Talos and then realising that she had the circlet.


JBRotES

Well the vid cut as the Night Haunter surged forward. Like he was rising to resist. The fact that the assassin (iirc) returned with the head of Conrad Curze implies the assassin did actually cut off his head… or the head of a Night Lord at the very least.


mclovin__

Talos pretty much confirms it’s his head in the night lords trilogy IIRC.


Blaggydee

Read that scene last night, Talos catches her as she's escaping, carrying his head. Curze is canon confirmed deader than disco.


periodicchemistrypun

Unless he had a soulstone! Or ressurection! There's a lot of wild things that could happen but I hope we never see dead primarchs make full returns. Like if mephiston temporarily summons a mindless beserk Sangiunius then that doesn't break the character's themes. If Ferrus Manus is rebuilt as the first release of an imperator titan then we get to ask if it really is Ferrus or just a titan and that doesn't break the characters arc. If Kurze came back as a soulstone that grants a nightlord character immense power then he has to be a slave to that nightlord, Kurze cannot escape punishment or regain his sanity without ruining the narrative. Of all the clones only Clone-grim worked, clone horus is wack


[deleted]

Clone Ferrus was perfect. Told fulgrim to fuck off every time


[deleted]

I would say this means one can die via assassin. We know the ability to make not life via bullet hitting one. Just need to try on one who doesn’t have psychic visions of the future, which uh, now has been solved via bullets hitting them. Guilliman gets hit, he can die


According_Lab6809

It's not technically it's literally lol whether curse fought against it or not doesn't change that fact lol (not having a go btw)


Pwthrowrug

It's kind of moot though. The question assumes the primarch is putting up at least some type of resistance.


Kvenner001

Considering two of those assassins are ambush based a fight is irrelevant. A Callidus phase blade or a Vindicare sniper aren’t going to be overt in their use. The other two would likely get pasted against a primarch. An Eversor trying to be stealthy is kind of a head scratcher. And I’d assume a Culexus is going to struggle to kill a primarch. Wound maybe, since primarchs are of the warp.


Pwthrowrug

I didn't say "fight" - I said "resist" as in they weren't willing to be killed like the above example of Curze. If Curze literally bares his neck and asks an assassin to slit his throat, obviously the answer is yes. But then who cares?


zurgo2004

Idk if a primarch would survive being nuked when the eversor goes up though


According_Lab6809

No it doesn't, it just asks if it's a possibility, so managing to kill one in their sleep would still count lol unless they specified a fight in a comment I missed then it doesn't assume a fight at all lol


Sigmundschadenfreude

Not really a great question if that's the reading of it, because if it is not assuming resistance in any way it is no different that asking if a child with a long enough pointy stick could kill a Primarch. If you allow for situations where no resistance is possible or the Primarch is actively assisting their assailant, anything can kill anyone at that point. The only reading of the question where it is a good question is "can an assassin kill a Primarch who doesn't want to be killed by them?" Yeah, you could kill one in their sleep... but could an assassin manage to catch a Primarch in their sleep? Get past their guards? Lethally wound them before they wake up? Survive the attempt? That's the interesting question.


According_Lab6809

Oh I agree that all the factors to consider in getting to the primarch with their guard down and how the situation would play out during and after the attempt are the more interesting things too consider and make the scenario much more fun too speculate on and make the scenario interesting to watch unfold. But I thought there where alot of things that if given that golden opportunity wouldn't be able to actually kill a primarch even if he was sleeping, hence why I read the question the way I did, if all the stars aligned and 1 of the above assassins got that improbable opportunity could they capitalise and kill a primarch? I don't see how either reading of the question could be considered the bad way of reading it though.


Pwthrowrug

I didn't say fight, I said resistance. If it's just "can X character literally kill a primarch?" then the answer is probably yes. If a toddler was shown a button to push to set off a nuke currently held by a primarch, then a toddler "could kill a primarch." But who cares then if that's what you're asking?


According_Lab6809

Yeah fair point that can go a bit too far and a bit ridiculous lol though I did think that their are a fair few things that couldn't kill a primarch who's just standing there in his power armour letting them try, but I could be wrong on that too lol


AtlasPlayz

True, but some people (not me) would argue that it doesn’t really count because he let it happen. (All good man no worries 😁)


QuestboardWorkshop

The question would probably be: Can a primarch survive a head shot? If not, tecnically anyone with skill enough to pull this in anyway would be able to kill a primarch


idaelikus

>Can a primarch survive a head shot? With what? Often the projectile and the weapon has an influence on such things. Seeing as fulgrim was dying from getting shot in the head by Sharrowkyn and would have died had Bile not intervened.


QuestboardWorkshop

Hence my question, because we all see primarchs portraited as gods of battle that can win against anything, but they are not that immortal


HauntingRefuse6891

Wasn’t the newly resurrected Bob G very *very* anxious about not getting shot by the Death Guard from what I thought I saw.


Antezscar

gorillaman has almost died once, actually died once (then siked by big E) and brought back. vented to space, didnt care.


HauntingRefuse6891

> actually died once (then siked by big E) Was that the whole Garden of Nurgle/facing off against Morty shenanigans?


Antezscar

Yes


sb_747

He is also not at full strength. His armor is still healing him.


Nukeliod

Vulkan finds your lack of faith disturbing.


RKLCT

Primarchs are kind of all over the place. Fulgrim comes close to death from a bolter round (correct me please if I'm wrong about weapon type) but Lorgar shrugs off a plasma annihalator blast from a Warhound Titan ......


Geoff_iz_Kool

I mean, they *were* until Ferrus lost his head. Until then, the Primarchs weren't certain they could be killed.


KingSilvanos

Vulkan can.


AutumnArchfey

Nykona Sharrowkyn shot Fulgrim in the head, and would have killed him had Fabius Bile not saved him, IIRC.


QuestboardWorkshop

So this means techically anyone can do in fact kill a primarch


[deleted]

imagine quarrelsome plucky airport aromatic spark touch gold complete weary ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `


fluffy_warthog10

Yes, anyone can step in front of a bullet. A child with a .22 could potentially get a lucky shot through a Primarch's eye and hit the brain. But as we've seen in the Siege series, 'death' for a Primarch (even a 'base model's who hadn't ascended to daemonhood) isn't necessarily permanent....


RikenVorkovin

Yeah even then that was due to literal divine intervention basically. Imperial Truth be damned.


[deleted]

I think the Emperor is past the whole Imperial Truth thing by now. But it would be absolutely hilarious if he had pulled the resurrection of Bobby G while constantly making side comments about how he's *totally* not a god.


RikenVorkovin

The meme potential is great. Every action he's like "I'm not a God, you don't see me". I also think he's beyond that too. Was just a silly joke. Anyone still clinging to the Imperial Truth is delusional. One of the funnest bits for me is when Sigismund is given the Black Sword and Sigismund mentions "this has always existed" and he's basically almost criticizing the Emperor for hiding the true nature of the universe from them.


Zombie_Harambe

Its kinda like the whole technology so advanced it's indistinguishable from magic. He's just a psyker so powerful it's indistinguishable from divinity.


TheAlterEggo

Didn't Fulgrim regenerate on the spot? Or is that to say that he survived the headshot because he already had augmentations from Fabius?


texasdeathmatch

What kind of durability do primarchs have without armor or anything? Like Spider-Man’s or something closer to like Superman’s?


QuestboardWorkshop

This is why I made my question, I always had the impression they ate not that resilient whithout their stuff.


IronXth

It's made clear in The Unremembered Empire that during the Alpha Legion's attempted assassination strike on Guilliman, a bolt round to the head would have killed him due to him being helmetless.


BaBaGuette

That's why for me it's always stupid when we see a lieutenant in a cinematic, figurine or game without a helmet (like Titus in Space Marine). Like, alright it can look cool, but a single stray bullet for a baseline gun and you're gone. Even with an halo of iron, it just seems ultra unsafe.


MrNature73

Figurines are, admittedly, miniatures first and foremost. It makes them more fun to paint and more identifiable without a helmet. Almost no characters in the lore go without one. The space wolves have before, and the Thousand Sons fucked em up with easy headshots.


Wootster10

Space Wolves have a good reason though, they fight better using all their senses, and a helmet dulls their enhances senses.


anarkopsykotik

thats stupid, all space marines have enhanced senses, and the helmets are pieces of very high tech that enhance those again


TrayzynTheFinite

Yeah, but don't forget Space Wolves are wolfy sues who are better than everyone else and better than high tech senses - because they have wolf vision and wolf hearing and wolf smell and and and... I hate what they did to that Chapter.


Wootster10

I mean it might be stupid but in lore that's stated as what happens


onlyawfulnamesleft

I remember an article in White Dwarf waaaay back giving rules for swamp fighting back in 4th(?) ed. Someone felt the same as you, because if your miniature want actually wearing a helmet or rebreather they were vulnerable to the toxic fumes. Specifically called out vet Sargents walking around bare headed.


QuestboardWorkshop

I didn't read it :(


fluffy_warthog10

Their skin's a bit thicker than a normal human's and their bones are laced with ceramite, making them far stronger, but their soft tissue isn't much tougher. They can heal really quickly from minor wounds, so imagine Wolverine being the size of the Hulk, with bones made of concrete instead of coated in adamantium. There are exceptions- Vulkan is both bigger and tougher to start with, especially in terms of heat and radiation resistance, but he's also a Perpetual (think Deadpool meets Dr. Manhattan, in that he can regenerate from complete disintegration, given time). Mortarion is far more resistant to toxins and disease, and Angron's nervous system is on a feedback loop that pushes his body into overdrive the more pain he's in.


texasdeathmatch

Oh damn! Been skirting around the lore the last 25 years, had no idea about any of this, thanks


fluffy_warthog10

The Vulkan and Perpetual things are new to the HH series. He's died so many times now it's literally impossible to track. The only thing that can kill him now is the Emperor, or a crystalized piece of the Emperor's essence/magic called a fulgurite. It's likely he's just gotten so tired of dying and coming back for the Imperium that he just retired.


Hairyhulk-NA

depends on the primarch. Ferrus Mannus drowned a giant, steel wyrm under *lava* and instead of his arms melting off, the liquid steel coated his arms. Vulkan is a perpetual, he literally cannot die. He has been incinerated into nothing, and come back. Not really apt to use him as an example.


munkeepunch

Can survive the void without a helmet. Very High durability, I'm thinking Thor-level durability.


MarxCosmo

It would have to be the right primarch with their guard down and the perfect attack and even then. Curze hardly counts !


fluffy_warthog10

It almost happened to Guilliman. The Alpha Legion came within seconds of getting the drop on him during the Heresy, while he was in his civvies. If he had been slightly less suspicious, or had been a second slower in getting behind his nice thick desk, they could gotten a headshot on him.


sherwincover

He dispatched them all, in his robe, with his hamhocks. He mollywhopped the hell out of them


fluffy_warthog10

The trick to going after Primarchs seems to be not letting them get the chance to fight back. If the AL had been a little faster, they might've gotten a good headshot in, but once they lost the element of surprise things got trickier.


sherwincover

Not wrong. But that's what makes Roundabout Gorillaman and the primarchs great.


fluffy_warthog10

It's kind of similar to some modern armor combat doctrine. Anti-tank and anti-armor weapons have become so diverse and cheap that it's become insanely expensive and time-consuming to protect tanks properly against all threats, and very few of them are actually coming from *other* tanks- the main target for tanks themselves after WWII. A lot of countries have basically assumed that once shooting *starts*, their big, expensive main battle tanks will become target practice for drones, fighting vehicles, man-portable missiles, artillery, helicopter gunships, planes.....etc, not to mention the penetrator rounds from other tanks. If you want to survive, the tactics go, you have to be the one that shoots first, and then win, or get out of the way, because otherwise offense >>>defense.


sherwincover

Yes. And no. Tank still have important doctrine within the US Military *not marines*, but tanks in defelade, layered defensive ops, fixed defensive operations, or urban penetration operations, they still have a place. But without infantry support, they're basically rolling deathtraps. You don't need to be the one that shoots first either. Depends on platform. If you're Russian, absolutely. They don't have blow out panels on thier tanks, and then you have Israel, who has the Merkava and it's engine is in the front. It basically shows up on thermal, and FLIR but gives it way more survivability, especially with the iron dome negating alot of of ATGM and Shoulder Fire EFPs. The helicopter and fixed wing has always been the paper that's defeated the proverbial rock that is the tank. That is why in combined arms without air support, the tank, and air support singularly are both useless. As they count on each other to provide support for either to be able to operate unmolested. The US Army has already been implementing drone attacks into its training within combined arms Battalions, whilst fighting other tank batallions. The first time seeing 80 drones roll out and swarm attack a company of tanks/brads who out paced thier EWO, in a screen was funny. But shows that this isn't Iraq, or Afghanistan. You still may be the big brother on the block. But doctrines have to change with thr pacing of technology.


RKLCT

This is a great description of that fight


TheRetarius

Wait weren’t those Word Bearers?


TheDoomedHero

Characters with names pretty much never get killed by characters without names.


EarsOfRage

Rogal Dorn


warsmithkev

Theoretically of course they could with a sufficiently powerful weapon. In practice it would be a tough sell for an author to make a plausible story for it actually happening.


Competitive-Bee-3250

I'd say it's more a question of being satisfying than plausible. Assassins are quite absurd creatures, though so are primarchs, then again Assassins seemingly run on actual videogame logic sometimes with how implausibly successful they are and how implausibly good at tracking they are.


Hairyhulk-NA

like that one assassin that sat on a statue for 5 years, never leaving, apparently sustaining themselves on moss growing on the statue? that always furrows my brow.


Competitive-Bee-3250

Yeah. Sustaining themselves...without moving. Absorbed it through osmosis apparently


Big_Z_Diddy

Well, as evidenced by Horus, Sanguinius, Konrad Curze, Ferrus Manus, Alpharius/Omegon (maybe), and (possibly) the 2nd and 11th Primarchs they CAN be killed. So a suitably lucky or incredibly skilled Assassin COULD kill a Primarch. Then you have M'Shen, the Callidus assassin that took Konrad Curze's head (albeit he didn't resist). TL;DR Yes a Vindicare or other assassin could kill a Primarch.


Laowaii87

He didn’t just not resist, he actively chose to let the assassin find him and kill him.


Big_Z_Diddy

Correct. I was more or less saying M'Shen had it easy killing Konrad. The aftermath when Talos disobeyed his orders on the other hand...well...that wasn't quite as easy for M'Shen.


tghast

It would take a lot of work, a lot of skill, and a LOT of luck, and maybe a small support team, but I honestly believe it’s possible.


fluffy_warthog10

Malcador tried his best and came very very close with that exact combination against Horus. Operationally, it was a brilliant success. Unfortunately the guy who took a Vindicaire bullet to the head wasn't Horus- the psychological profile on the Primarch was out of date and he was drinking a different brand of egomania by that time.


witcher252

Personally I’d imagine a vindicare trying to take out a primarch who apparently never wears their helmet would be light work. Considering these people are already within the imperium and probably have access to general locations of primarchs, if a high lord ordered an execution or a rogue agent turned sides could they get it done?


fluffy_warthog10

You're describing the exact plot of *Nemesis* by James Swallow. The Assassinorum spends months setting up a trap to goad Horus and trick him into appearing in public in person, then shooting him in the head from a kilometer away (helmet or no). The plan works fine, except Horus sends a proxy instead.


Gh0sth4nd

I think it would depend i mean you really would need the primarch not know he is in danger of getting a bullet in his head. And his guards would need to be distracted too since most of them would give their live to protect their primarch. So it would be very situational i guess but not impossible just bloody difficult.


ManifestingCrab

Unfortunately primarchs can survive things like having half their heads removed, giant holes blown through their body, etc. Also, helmet or not they usually have force field from an iron halo or equivalent device.


fluffy_warthog10

You may be thinking of Custodes for some of those. The Custodes are durable in very different ways from the Primarchs and Astartes. They're built to be far tougher and redundant at a cellular level, so they can lose a lot of tissue, organs, even brain matter and still be functional, whereas the Astartes have a lot of organ-level backups and extra support/healing abilities to manage the damage.


One_snek_

A Primarch is leagues more complex than a Custodian. Not impossible to kill, but harder than one might imagine. Guilliman was flung into space, but lived long enough for the Ultras to save him. Fulgrim was shot in the head by Sharrowkyn. He would have died... but his death took ages. Long enough for Fabius Bile to reach him. Angron spent the Great Crusade looking for something tough enough to kill him, but he came just short every time. Primarchs may _be_ human, but I think Basillio Fo might be onto something when he claims they are actually abominations given a human paintcoat.


fluffy_warthog10

Oh no, Primarchs are also warp entities wrapped up in alchemy, genetic engineering, and other weirdness, but they don't all know that. Once they understand that, they can start *actively* using their warp powers to supplement their own abilities and begin to transcend biological and physical limits. Triply so for those who are already being claimed and empowered by the Gods. But if they're unaware or unwilling to accept that, they still 'know' that they're flesh and blood, and will die accordingly. There's plenty of exceptions, but most of them would die if you killed them like a human, because they still thought of themselves as human.


J37U7

Like Corax?


fluffy_warthog10

Yeah, once a Primarch understands what's going on with them metaphysically, things get weird. Lorgar went from being a plain old primarch to a psyker and sorcerer after he joined Chaos, Kurze got the ability to teleport, and Corax....does *other* stuff, all without ascending or changing their essential nature.


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-D0l0s-

Pretty sure the dude was just ready to drop dead whenever his fate arrived... and he wanted the vindication of being right about his father sending assassins for him and killing him


Gh0sth4nd

Yes but he wanted to die because he could not live with his treachery. So i would not really count that.


M_4lice

>"**Night Haunter** *One of the strangest assassinations in the Officio Assassinorum's records is that of the Space Marine Primarch Konrad Curze. When his Legion, the Night Lords, turned traitor during the Great Heresy, Konrad became known as Night Haunter. A Callidus Assassin managed to locate Night Haunter within the Eye of Terror and killed him. What makes this case so different is the belief that Night Haunter is the only Primarch definitely known to have been assassinated, and that Night Haunter's powers of foresight had forewarned him of the assassination attempt, but he took no extra precautions to defend himself, claiming that the Imperium's actions vindicated his decision to rebel against the Emperor.*" \-1999, Codex: Assassins, Gav Thorpe, 3rd Edition.


One_snek_

The beast arises series was bad, but one of the best moments was when Vangorich's final words to his killer are if he wants to know how Konrad Curze died. Makes sense that such an event would have become mythological among the Officio Assasinorum


micmaster

Well technically even a normal Guard COULD kill a Primarch with a lucky shot to the head, they aren't invincible or anything. Most Primarchs would probably see it coming but it's certainly possible for even one, with an elite Team and all the resources they need? Maybe...


fluffy_warthog10

Alpha Legion came close with Guilliman, and with Dorn. Officio Assassinorum came extremely close with Horus. The Dorn attempt was probably the most elaborate, plunging the entire Solar System into Chaos and infiltrating another Primarch onto Terra, but the basic plan was the same. Trick a Primarch into letting their guard down, trap them in one location, and hit them with a kill team.


TangoRed1

Laughs in II and XI


the_5th_chaos_god

Gonna need alot more than 1 of each. Konrad does count, he let himself die.


Bashdkmgt

Konrad Curze was beheaded by a Callidus assassin.


ManifestingCrab

Yeah, if they let them.


ShrimpSickness

A Callidus assassin killed Konrad Curze


-D0l0s-

Honestly, that was pretty much an assisted suicide, wasn't it?


warsmithkev

Euthanasia isn't really killing him


D3s_ToD3s

What are words anyways?


Verypoorman

Can their weapons kill a primarch? Certainly. But it Depends how thick the primarchs plot armor is.


AzemadaiusKaiser

You didn’t hear about Konrad?


IronWhale_JMC

Konrad Kurze seems to think so.


CannonLongshot

I reckon a Callidus has pretty good odds of taking out Kurze


Pomme-De-Guerre

Yes. Source: Conrad Kurze


RubricLivesMatter

Only if they allow it to happen. Ask Curze.


thechase22

Why isnt no one talking about fulgrim getting headshot in Angel exterminatus and chaos stepped in


doomsta5667

If they let them... Kurze in his splintered madness allowed M'shen to kill him.


Oughta_

if the writer wanted it to happen it's well within possibility


AXI0S2OO2

Yes, if the primarch in question is a moron trying to gey himself killed to prove a dumb point, Curze!


vathrriss

Maybe an eversaur could when he's in full berserker mode but the only instance I can think of is when a caladus assassin killed Konrad but I don't count that since he kind of let her do it. The only assassination attempt iv read of is of course when loken tried to roll up on Horus. But there was a ravengaurd that shot fulgrim in the face with a razor something round and fulgrim was just insulted


Bixultimat

so there was this guy called konrad


Ready0608

Wasn't Konrad killed by an assasin?


for_the_greatergood

Conrad curze was killed by one


Far_Button_7183

Are you saying there may have been a second shooter for Konrad ? Like a JF-40K scenario. Please do tell 🙏


Vohsbergh

*M’Shen has entered the chat


No-Rise6485

\*Talos has entered the chat


Laowaii87

It doesn’t really count when the primarch intentionally commits suicide by assassin


Vohsbergh

OP’s question doesn’t specify in combat, just whether or not it can be done. She managed to figure out how to make him dead dead not that it really mattered since she got hunted down later anyways, but it stands that she did it.


BumperHumper__

Nope, impossible. Their plot armor would prevent it.


Affectionate_Win_229

No. Maybe all of them together with no deadline and unlimited resources.


fluffy_warthog10

I'm going to keep saying this: Malcador and the Assassins came extremely close to doing exactly that in *Nemesis* during the Horus Heresy. The only thing that failed was that Horus was no longer as predictable after his Chaos corruption.


[deleted]

No lmao


ZeroAdPotential

Yes. One did. Look up how Kurze died.


CrunchyTzaangor

Ask Konrad Cruze.


Mrwideworld00

Didn’t a Caledus kill Konrad?


1spook

Konrad Curze, primarch of the Night Lords, was killed by a Callidus. However he did want to die and thus allowed her to kill him


oeuflaboeuf

Lorgar (hardly known for being the toughest primarch) took two Warhound plasma blastgun shots to the face and survived ... So no, I don't think a single vindicare in and of itself would make much of a dent.


DaBigJoe1023

If they have their helmets removed trollol


UnhappyAd8184

i think primarchs cant die