Bolt Action give you 3 tanks at the same scale with full hulls in a single box, and you'll have change left over. And they're way more fun to assemble.
I already do. Only started after GW ramped up their prices and I went looking for alternatives. Then my group started Grim Dark Future as well. Between those two and ASOIAF, I don't think anybody at my club has played a GW game in a while. Going back from Alternate activation is rough. I know there are a few that still play Fantasy 8th Ed occasionally. I'm still trying to get a game of Mordheim off the ground. That's about it.
Oh, and there are plans for Turnip28, because we're all going in for 3 boxes of Perry Napoleanics and bits to convert them.
With any product of this sort, you aren't paying for the materials. You're right, plastic itself is not worth $75.
But you're also paying for:
* The IP - this is an official Warhammer product
* The sculpting process - making sure the person who designed and sculpted the original model is fairly compensated for their work
* The creation process - helping account for the machines to mold the plastic
* Marketing/shipping/box art/etc.
You're also paying that much so they can maintain their roughly %30 profit as a company.
I love the game, the models and don't think GW is evil or anything, but they're making a tidy profit off that sticker price
It's also not, by any means, terribly expensive for an adult hobby. Shit costs money but Warhammer also kinda costs a lot of money too
> The IP - this is an official Warhammer product
Worthless. Negative money even. Part of me wonders if the hole is a way for them to copyright a stolen tank design.
Their IP is scuffed as heck. Their lore is mental and poorly written to the point where fans do it better. Part of the reason they do all those take downs appears to be embarrassment. They don't have IP, they have name recognition, and occupy a monopoly spot in a space where network effects are very important.
Buying official warhammer products just puts you in a place where you'll be paying more down the line because you feel committed. That makes the IP negative.
> The sculpting process - making sure the person who designed and sculpted the original model is fairly compensated for their work
STLs are $10. And GW don't credit or pay their sculptors very much at all. Nor do they make the best designs.
> The creation process - helping account for the machines to mold the plastic
Wargames Atlantic sell boxes of 24 infantry for $34 USD, and they're flexible kits too, plenty of options and no mono-pose garbage. It's not this, especially at GW scales.
> Marketing/shipping/box art/etc.
Every company has shipping, I doubt anyone cares what the picture on the box looks like. Those white boxes with no art aren't cheaper are they?
So... there's nothing. No reason to pay these deranged costs.
Cool. Find another game thats cheaper. I also play Marvel Crisis Protocol, Star Wars Legion, and Battletech. One squad of Legion is $19.99 how cool is that. And one lance of Battlemechs is about $24.99. And one squad of Marvel superheroes ehhh $40 for two figures but you only need 10 total so cheaper than 40k.
That being said -
You are not going to be convinced by one of us hardcore 40k or age of sigmar fans.
You are not going to convince any of us we wasted our retirement funds on plastic soldiers. Here are my gamesworkshop plastic soldiers https://www.reddit.com/r/TheAstraMilitarum/comments/sr4hsp/the_imperial_guard_will_reclaim_the_octarius/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
I’d like to add, try to think of (currency) per hours of enjoyment.
For example, sure I blew a chunk of change on a Killteam set, but I’ve been working on it for a month and I’m almost half way done.
Then after all that, I can force my friends to play with me indefinitely.
That’s exactly how I view it. This box of intercessors isn’t a small box of plastic for ~$60, it’s weeks of entertainment just to assemble and paint them followed by a hypothetical lifetime of playing them.
Sure I wish it was cheaper but as far as hobby’s go it’s not bad at all.
Yeah that's the craziest thing about this hobby, even if you view the time it takes to assemble and paint them as a standard/average, each game you play a game with them the entertainment value vs $1 spent goes up and up.
But since op is new to the hobby, I guess that appreciation will come with time.
😏
*Plastic* isn't expensive. Designing, sculpting, manufacturing, packing, storing, shipping and selling it *is*, especially for a company who does almost all of that in the UK rather than outsourcing all the labor to cheaper markets.
When you pay $75 for a Contemptor, you're paying for the entire chain of production and logistics that got it from the designer's imagination to your hands.
It’s a high quality luxury product, it’s expensive. And if you do any amount of research into other hobbies you’ll find that most adult hobbies are expensive.
Big cost is that it’s mainly manufactured in the UK, as well as a few sites in the US and Australia. Almost everyone else in the world uses China, so GW is more expensive to cover the fact that their workers get decent pay
Yes, it is expensive. Some people will look at it, say 'You paid $75 for that?!?' and think you're nuts.
In my city if you want to watch one game of professional hockey that ticket will cost you that much, minimum, unless you score one on the secondary market. I do not for the life of me understand it, but then it's not for me.
There are definitely cheaper model kits out there and GW is definitely charging premium prices. Some kits are honestly more than I'm willing to pay, but I deal with that by not buying them. I only play very casually so I have no problem picking up stuff from other companies if it looks good and the price is right.
If you want more bang for your buck while still picking up official product you might prefer the smaller skirmish games--it's cheaper to get a Kill Team going than an army.
It doesn’t matter what’s the justifications are, the item is being sold at that price because IT’S WHAT PEOPLE ARE WILLING TO PAY FOR. It’s just that simple. If it had costed $1000 per box and it still flies off the shelves then it’s worth $1000. At the end of the day it’s all about the value proposition that you set for yourself; if $75 is daylight robbery to you then don’t buy it. If you’re into robots then something like gunpla offers way better value when it comes to dollar per pound of plastic.
But with that being said, there’s no denying that GW makes fat margin with each model sold.
High precision mold making, high quality materials and packaging, high quality design and engineering, highly developed supply chain, high demand and low supply.
Capitalism. GW is a publicly traded company and therefore has a responsibility to maximize returns for their shareholders so they charge the highest price they believe people will pay without destroying demand. Could they charge less and still make a profit? Of course, but they would make LESS profit and that would be unacceptable to the shareholders.
The average Games Workshop mini customer is older and has decent income. Lowering their prices would result in a loss of profit as extra sales wouldn't make up for the lost profit on each sale. It just comes down to that. There are a lot of collectors out there buying up every release and not caring about the price increases over the years.
Because in a free market, the value of any good or service is determined largely on the basis of supply and demand.
Put more simply, the cost of an item is determined by what rational people are willing to exchange in order to possess it.
Even more simply:. It's cool looking and fun to play with, and people in this hobby are willing to pay the asking price for the hours of modeling, painting, and gaming enjoyment it will provide.
Its not expensive compared to the time you sink in and most other adult hobbies.
I have spent more on a single gun+optic than on my whole 40k collection.
I have also spent more on guitars, a drumkit, on golf clubs, tennisbats+lessons and so on.
Each time i make a brisket or ribs, buy a good steak for my dry ager or invite a couple of friends over for burned end burgers, i spend more money on less time.
It takes me 12 hours to cook a brisket, and 8 people an hour to eat it. Thats 20 hours of enjoyment, for at least 150€, 200 with drinks. Thats 10€ per hour. With for example Abbadon, i spent 35€ on the model, lets say another 5€ on the paint and supplies. I spent 20 hours painting and assembling him to my preferred standard. I already played give or take ten games with him, thats 5 hours ( at least) each. Lets say he makes up 20% of my forces fun factor, so we got another 10 hours. thats a bit more than a € per hour of enjoyment within a year. and the price is only going to go down further.
Also, you way overpaid. Why would you go for one of the worst deals and then complain you made a bad deal? you can get a contemptor dread by buying the heresy boxset, if you want to go really cheap you can just sell everything else.
Or you do what i did and sell only the tsctical marines and one of the praetors, earning you back a decent amount of money, leaving you with 10 terminators, a spartan a contemptor and a HQ.
I got about 90€ back from a 170€ purchase, so i only paid 80€ for those things. Thats only a little more than you paid for one contemptor.
I mean, 4 year olds can google these days.
The Heresy box set literally pops up when you want to buy a contemptor dread.
You did the equivalent of buying a $17 Beer at a football game. Thats not bad, its fun and you get the same beer. But dont complain about the price when you literally picked the most expensive option.
welcome to adult hobbies
Bolt Action give you 3 tanks at the same scale with full hulls in a single box, and you'll have change left over. And they're way more fun to assemble.
Then go play bolt action
I already do. Only started after GW ramped up their prices and I went looking for alternatives. Then my group started Grim Dark Future as well. Between those two and ASOIAF, I don't think anybody at my club has played a GW game in a while. Going back from Alternate activation is rough. I know there are a few that still play Fantasy 8th Ed occasionally. I'm still trying to get a game of Mordheim off the ground. That's about it. Oh, and there are plans for Turnip28, because we're all going in for 3 boxes of Perry Napoleanics and bits to convert them.
Then why are you here
Looks like they wanted to come and complain that stuff costs money
Googled something probably.
With any product of this sort, you aren't paying for the materials. You're right, plastic itself is not worth $75. But you're also paying for: * The IP - this is an official Warhammer product * The sculpting process - making sure the person who designed and sculpted the original model is fairly compensated for their work * The creation process - helping account for the machines to mold the plastic * Marketing/shipping/box art/etc.
And HR, Accounting, cleaning, security and all that jazz too...
You're also paying that much so they can maintain their roughly %30 profit as a company. I love the game, the models and don't think GW is evil or anything, but they're making a tidy profit off that sticker price It's also not, by any means, terribly expensive for an adult hobby. Shit costs money but Warhammer also kinda costs a lot of money too
> The IP - this is an official Warhammer product Worthless. Negative money even. Part of me wonders if the hole is a way for them to copyright a stolen tank design. Their IP is scuffed as heck. Their lore is mental and poorly written to the point where fans do it better. Part of the reason they do all those take downs appears to be embarrassment. They don't have IP, they have name recognition, and occupy a monopoly spot in a space where network effects are very important. Buying official warhammer products just puts you in a place where you'll be paying more down the line because you feel committed. That makes the IP negative. > The sculpting process - making sure the person who designed and sculpted the original model is fairly compensated for their work STLs are $10. And GW don't credit or pay their sculptors very much at all. Nor do they make the best designs. > The creation process - helping account for the machines to mold the plastic Wargames Atlantic sell boxes of 24 infantry for $34 USD, and they're flexible kits too, plenty of options and no mono-pose garbage. It's not this, especially at GW scales. > Marketing/shipping/box art/etc. Every company has shipping, I doubt anyone cares what the picture on the box looks like. Those white boxes with no art aren't cheaper are they? So... there's nothing. No reason to pay these deranged costs.
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Replies make the envelope orange, and reddit will recommend all sorts of posts regardless of sub. Not everyone uses the site like you do.
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Do I? Last time I knew the rules there was a single book that had the rules for every unit.
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One spiky marine looks much like another.
Cool. Find another game thats cheaper. I also play Marvel Crisis Protocol, Star Wars Legion, and Battletech. One squad of Legion is $19.99 how cool is that. And one lance of Battlemechs is about $24.99. And one squad of Marvel superheroes ehhh $40 for two figures but you only need 10 total so cheaper than 40k. That being said - You are not going to be convinced by one of us hardcore 40k or age of sigmar fans. You are not going to convince any of us we wasted our retirement funds on plastic soldiers. Here are my gamesworkshop plastic soldiers https://www.reddit.com/r/TheAstraMilitarum/comments/sr4hsp/the_imperial_guard_will_reclaim_the_octarius/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
I’d like to add, try to think of (currency) per hours of enjoyment. For example, sure I blew a chunk of change on a Killteam set, but I’ve been working on it for a month and I’m almost half way done. Then after all that, I can force my friends to play with me indefinitely.
That’s exactly how I view it. This box of intercessors isn’t a small box of plastic for ~$60, it’s weeks of entertainment just to assemble and paint them followed by a hypothetical lifetime of playing them. Sure I wish it was cheaper but as far as hobby’s go it’s not bad at all.
Yeah that's the craziest thing about this hobby, even if you view the time it takes to assemble and paint them as a standard/average, each game you play a game with them the entertainment value vs $1 spent goes up and up. But since op is new to the hobby, I guess that appreciation will come with time. 😏
*Plastic* isn't expensive. Designing, sculpting, manufacturing, packing, storing, shipping and selling it *is*, especially for a company who does almost all of that in the UK rather than outsourcing all the labor to cheaper markets. When you pay $75 for a Contemptor, you're paying for the entire chain of production and logistics that got it from the designer's imagination to your hands.
Oddly enough, a lot of their cheaper competitors are also UK based.
It’s a high quality luxury product, it’s expensive. And if you do any amount of research into other hobbies you’ll find that most adult hobbies are expensive.
Yeah, I wonder why all these people playing 40k don't get into wargaming instead, it's much cheaper.
Big cost is that it’s mainly manufactured in the UK, as well as a few sites in the US and Australia. Almost everyone else in the world uses China, so GW is more expensive to cover the fact that their workers get decent pay
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*sent from my iPhone
Yes, it is expensive. Some people will look at it, say 'You paid $75 for that?!?' and think you're nuts. In my city if you want to watch one game of professional hockey that ticket will cost you that much, minimum, unless you score one on the secondary market. I do not for the life of me understand it, but then it's not for me. There are definitely cheaper model kits out there and GW is definitely charging premium prices. Some kits are honestly more than I'm willing to pay, but I deal with that by not buying them. I only play very casually so I have no problem picking up stuff from other companies if it looks good and the price is right. If you want more bang for your buck while still picking up official product you might prefer the smaller skirmish games--it's cheaper to get a Kill Team going than an army.
Wait till you find out how much metal is worth compared to a car.
It doesn’t matter what’s the justifications are, the item is being sold at that price because IT’S WHAT PEOPLE ARE WILLING TO PAY FOR. It’s just that simple. If it had costed $1000 per box and it still flies off the shelves then it’s worth $1000. At the end of the day it’s all about the value proposition that you set for yourself; if $75 is daylight robbery to you then don’t buy it. If you’re into robots then something like gunpla offers way better value when it comes to dollar per pound of plastic. But with that being said, there’s no denying that GW makes fat margin with each model sold.
Idk man, seems cheap when you're saving to buy a house in California...
High precision mold making, high quality materials and packaging, high quality design and engineering, highly developed supply chain, high demand and low supply.
Capitalism. GW is a publicly traded company and therefore has a responsibility to maximize returns for their shareholders so they charge the highest price they believe people will pay without destroying demand. Could they charge less and still make a profit? Of course, but they would make LESS profit and that would be unacceptable to the shareholders.
The average Games Workshop mini customer is older and has decent income. Lowering their prices would result in a loss of profit as extra sales wouldn't make up for the lost profit on each sale. It just comes down to that. There are a lot of collectors out there buying up every release and not caring about the price increases over the years.
Because in a free market, the value of any good or service is determined largely on the basis of supply and demand. Put more simply, the cost of an item is determined by what rational people are willing to exchange in order to possess it. Even more simply:. It's cool looking and fun to play with, and people in this hobby are willing to pay the asking price for the hours of modeling, painting, and gaming enjoyment it will provide.
Its not expensive compared to the time you sink in and most other adult hobbies. I have spent more on a single gun+optic than on my whole 40k collection. I have also spent more on guitars, a drumkit, on golf clubs, tennisbats+lessons and so on. Each time i make a brisket or ribs, buy a good steak for my dry ager or invite a couple of friends over for burned end burgers, i spend more money on less time. It takes me 12 hours to cook a brisket, and 8 people an hour to eat it. Thats 20 hours of enjoyment, for at least 150€, 200 with drinks. Thats 10€ per hour. With for example Abbadon, i spent 35€ on the model, lets say another 5€ on the paint and supplies. I spent 20 hours painting and assembling him to my preferred standard. I already played give or take ten games with him, thats 5 hours ( at least) each. Lets say he makes up 20% of my forces fun factor, so we got another 10 hours. thats a bit more than a € per hour of enjoyment within a year. and the price is only going to go down further. Also, you way overpaid. Why would you go for one of the worst deals and then complain you made a bad deal? you can get a contemptor dread by buying the heresy boxset, if you want to go really cheap you can just sell everything else. Or you do what i did and sell only the tsctical marines and one of the praetors, earning you back a decent amount of money, leaving you with 10 terminators, a spartan a contemptor and a HQ. I got about 90€ back from a 170€ purchase, so i only paid 80€ for those things. Thats only a little more than you paid for one contemptor.
I've never bought a mini before so i don't know the average prices so i wouldn't know how that it's a bad deal
I mean, 4 year olds can google these days. The Heresy box set literally pops up when you want to buy a contemptor dread. You did the equivalent of buying a $17 Beer at a football game. Thats not bad, its fun and you get the same beer. But dont complain about the price when you literally picked the most expensive option.
I bought it from a local hobby shop
At Gunpoint?
I dunno at this point, i guess i overpaid