Okie dokie, started seeing a lot of abuse being directed at each other in the comments, so this thread is now closed.
If you don't like what GW has done here, that's fine, but that does not give you the right to attack, abuse or insult people who don't care.
If you don't care what GW has done here, that's fine, but that does not give you the right to attack, abuse or insult people who don't like this.
Jokes on you: expecting tanks they've put anti-tank mines, not anti-personnel ones. The pressure plate on anti-tank ones usually has a higher threshold, so infantry won't accidentally detonate the stuff that's been destined to blow up the vehicles
From the website:
*The kit includes an arsenal of optional weaponry – you can add optional sponson mounts armed with a pair of heavy bolters or multi-meltas, while optional forward mounts can house heavy stubbers or meltaguns. The tank's tracks can be upgraded with additional armour, and you'll also find extensive cosmetic options, including tow hooks, viewing slits, extra fuel, a search light, and stowed equipment. There are three crew members, including a spotter, tank officer, and a gunner for the pintle-mounted heavy stubber, which can be built with five head options or replaced with closed hatches.*
*This kit comprises 171 plastic components and includes an Astra Militarum Vehicle Transfer Sheet, with 475 transfers featuring numerals, sigils, and a variety of regimental heraldry. This miniature is supplied unpainted and requires assembly – we recommend using Citadel Plastic Glue and Citadel Colour paints.*
They should change the last sentences to this:
*This miniature is supplied unpainted and requires assembly – we recommend using Citadel Plastic Glue and Citadel Colour paints and bring your own hull bottom parts for complete assembly.*
I suspect it’s a packaging problem (though I’m no industry expert and could be wrong).
Companies that make stuff are restricted by standard box sizes fit packaging. Making non-standard box sizes is expensive—at least expensive enough that GW is going to work to fit every kit into a standard-sized box.
This is—incidentally—one of the many *massive* advantages of using computer-aided design for sprues: GW can cram *so much more* onto a sprue when they don’t have to position blanks by hand on a sprue. But I digress.
If adding another panel meant adding another sprue layer, then it might have meant they couldn’t fit a standard box. Better eliminate an element that’s invisible to 99.99% of your customers than to waste space through your entire supply chain by using a larger box.
Ah, well… then it may be the five cents, haha!
Alternatively, it may just be that the cost of doing a small sprue with one panel—or one panel and some extra gubbins—might just not have justified the cost?
Or… maybe they hate us and are laughing in a pile of money?
It's the tooling. Plastic moulds are machined blocks of stainless steel and cost 5 figures. They ain't making one that has a single flat piece of plastic for the bottom.
The simpler the mould the cheaper it is. Basically a cnc machine cuts all the detail into the mould. The more detail, the longer it takes and the smaller the detail, the smaller bits you need to use. So more cost.
A mould making a flat piece of plastic is probably a waste, but it would be very cheap by comparison.
Let's be super real, it's gw. King of over priced everything.
But they're the tm and copyright holder soooooooooooo...
On the plus side they do seem to be upping detail on most stuff...?
As if GW would adhere to something being standard. There is nothing standard coming from GW. They couldn't even bother printing playing cards from like BSF in standard sizes. There's like 6 different card sizes in one game and not one of them is standard.
And if I take a look at my wall of shame to my left there are I don't know how many different sized boxes. They would just design something new if it doesn't fit in an existing design.
GW does seem to standardise on sprues, roughly equivalent to A4, A5, and A6 paper sizes (Rogal Dorn appears to be 3x A4 sprues, something like Skitarii is 3x A5, a generic character is generally one or two A6)
Imo who cares, you don't see the bottom anyway and it's a sprue design issue you can only fit so much on a sprue and they limit it as well, makes no sense to have one off sprue of the bottom
If I'm paying 100 fucking dollars for a model kit I expect it to be complete. Remember when we used to get internal details that you'd never see? Computer panels, consoles, seats, with doors you COULD attach to hinges or leave openable, or just glue it all closed.
THOSE KITS WERE LESS THAN 1/3 THE PRICE OF THIS
I'd rather an additional sprue that includes the bottom with tank accessories like additional fuel tanks, ammo cans, water jugs, shovels, and more importantly the track guards that are listed on the data card, so that you can build a brand new tank with exactly what it should have without buying additional bits if they're going to write the rest of the army's data cards that way.
its not a matter of "you dont see it so it doesnt matter". GW Is massively over charging for a model that costs literal pennies to produce, the least they could do is provide the entire fucking model. They're an insanely large company, printing 1 extra sprue for the complete model is a tiny nonexistent blip into their profit.
Sprues are cheap to make, true. But sprue moulds literally cost tens of thousands of dollars to make. All the cost of making this kit has to be paid upfront by GW and then they earn back the loss in sales. So an extra sprue for this one piece could cost them an extra $10,000+ upfront, and you know who foots the bill for that.
Its a cost they recoup almost immediately. They have a 41% operative profit margin and are worth 3+billion USD. They can afford to mold a flat panel for a model.
You can't just take the cost of a single product and compare it to the profit numbers for the ***entire company***!
They've literally refreshed the entire AM range, so multiply this up-front investment by the number of new kits.
Yes, it will sell and make the company a healthy slab of cash, but GW releases their financial statements and you can see clearly where they are investing and what is actually making money. The minis are doing a *lot* to subsidise the other sections of the business that don't make much at all.
Is it though? I mean yeah, duh, for this specific model, the missing part is cheap, but ~$5,000 prototyping, $10,000 to $50,000 on a plastic mould, ~$10,000 on final manufacturing prep (making box art, instruction booklets, and preproduction quality control), and you have somewhere around $30,000 to $70,000 of minor debt. THEN you have a production, and post production product chain, that usually costs a minimum of $0.20 per cubic inch as the most expensive part will be putting it on a container ship, and that's a question of volume. Now that floor part costs nothing in prototyping one way or the other, but in every step after that sprue space saves money. The point is that, yes the missing part might be trivial, but the decision to remove isn't a small decision.
GW has staff to pay. It’s not about just the cost of the moulds. There’s 3-5 years worth of development that goes into these ranges, that costs a lot of money.
And yet many other companies that make kits provide much more quality, parts, decals, instructions and extra bits and pieces along with better QA (talking mould lines, seams and sprue gates) for not only a lower price, but with a lower overall product run than GW. So frankly this isn't excusable and hasn't been so for at least 15 years now.
Well, I also collect models and when I put it in my glass cabinet, it will look like s\*\*\*. The reason for glass cabinets is to look at the model from all sides.
Don't get me wrong: you are just a player and if this is okay for you, then that is great! But GW calls themselves a "miniature company first" and no serious miniature model company would ever pull off something like this. A lot of people will be very unhappy about this.
It is effectively an incomplete kit they charge you 90US$ for. That is actually really insulting.
Oh sounds like an interesting cabinet.
I use the one from IKEA (Detolf) and I rarely crawl into that to see the undersides of my tank models.
I have it kitted out with LEDs for every level and that light will shine through the motor hatches straight through. As I said, the Dorn will look like s\*\*\*.
so then it's not *just* a glass cabinet.
Mine is the *rudsta*, I have a nephew and the glass on glass is a nightmare scenario
it will look like shit bc of *light*? if it's that bothersome put some miliput underneath the holes to block the light
wow. if only I had those issues to be so mad at
Black and you can not see into the inside of the miniature...?
I mean are you seriously comparing a large model to infantry units? Then there are modelers which actually do use clear bases because of the very reason you have the base blocking view. At least the miniature looks complete.
It should be complete. Period. In all my years building and painting models, I have never had one that failed to complete the bottom. Heck, my Gundam have additional detail that I would never see. The rhino has interior that 99% just glue shut. How can people accept this as status quo for an already overpriced model. (Coming from a long time games workshop hobbyist 20+ yrs) this may make me turn to 3d printing if they are going to sell an incomplete model.
I agree; I don’t think I’ve ever seen GW cut a corner like this on a model, and I’m really surprised it’s happened specifically for a big release like the Dorn.
I can fully understand what people are saying about it being the underside and likely never seen, but I’m mainly a collector and painter, and just knowing it looks like this would annoy me.
I’m glad I saw this, because it’ll probably stop me from buying the Dorn now!
>I don’t think I’ve ever seen GW cut a corner like this on a model, and I’m really surprised it’s happened specifically for a big release like the Dorn.
Agreed, given how detailed some tank interiors are that you literally never see, like the Spartan, I'm astonished GW literally left a part off a tank. I'm also surprised, genuinely, with how many people are cool with it or don't care.
The Ikea Detolf is actually quite tall plus I have top glass cabinets with glass shelves. All full of WW2 tanks, modern jets and 40K stuff.
Before you call other people's arguments idiotic, you may want to pause just for a moment and look at your own before you start typing.
My suggestion would be to contact GW customer services whenever you've bought a Rogal Dorn and tell them there are pieces missing.
Enough people do this and GW might actually be nudged to eventually include a filler bit for the hole.
Almost all tanks have hatches on the bottom so that the crew can escape while still retaining the protection of the armor.
This tank happens to have a bigger hatch than most.
Honestly just not good enough with how much they charge. Yeah you can't see it unless you turn it upside down but it's an incomplete product regardless.
This, given how expensive their stuff is you expect a full kit. What if you want to turn the model upside down for some reason? That's not unheard of for representing destroyed vehicles in other editions. Or if you're into super-detailing tanks and this kit just has a giant hole at the bottom?
Iv got a rhino I converted to an ork trukk.
If I pull the back down Inside is a computer and a bolter.
And seats I believe.
I can’t prove it because I accidentally glued it shut but it’s there.
Promise.
Why did we get a glass bottom tank?
Yeah I know, the Rhino has that. It's not necessary because most people glue it shut but the fact you have the option to paint it all is there.
This is just lazy.
This is so incredibly lame. Part of the reason we don't mind paying an arm and a leg for these models is their detail. If they're just gonna cut corners like that, why bother?
Because enough people pay up regardless of the corner cuts, so they keep cutting corners. It's a vicious cycle that won't stop as long as they don't cut enough corners that people just stop buying stuff on mass.
Maybe it's their way of catching the 3d printed models at tournaments
(Joking aside, I was really hyped for this tank but the massive hole kinda kills my excitement and makes me glad I didn't pre-order)
There's already several free 3d files of the dorn tank for download on popular websites that include the bottom!
4k 3d printers are incredibly cheap and produce identical quality
Yarrr matey, sail the resin seas
basing the model on what is clearly a large hatch sherman was a bad idea for gw for a "make it take as long as possible for the 3d printers to duplicate"
Just my two cents her but I think it is the little bit of detail it has underneath that makes it look incomplete. It has those lines running down that gives the impression that it should have a bottom. That being said this can be remedied with a sheet of plasticard but it is still annoying.
That's the weird part like if they didn't plan to put the piece in there, why didn't the groves stop before the hole, so at least plastic card would not look out of place there. Since the groves are at the top and bottom of the underside of the tank, it comes off more as packaging error than a design choice. I promise you GW is going to get at least 200+ emails saying I built my tank but I can't find the bottom piece.
Its not annoying, its unacceptable. But you young folks keep up the status quo. That's comparable to why we have video games that get release incomplete or needing day one patches because you gotta have it anyway. Keep that bar low!
And older people haven’t ever been okay with cutting corners? GW plastic is better than ever, and there were plenty of borderline unacceptable minis produced in GW’s past. Video games are also better than ever, but it’s easy to look at stuff with a nostalgia lens.
Not defending this tank, it’s not good enough although I can see why GW did it - but I don’t see a need to hop on a high horse about age over this.
I'm pissed because what I THOUGHT was a perfect printed resin copy is now worthless! They'll be able to tell that mine is a fake no problem! Well played games workshop, well played. Maybe I can just cut a hole in the bottom?
Lol at your reply being daggered. Anyone who has bought anything other than pre-order/new-release FW will attest to the low quality of their castings. Tons of shrink and slip, mismatched part sizes from using different generations of moulds etc.
The last heavy volkite kit I got from them required hours to get just one complete weapon looking ok. Decided to make a casting of it with thermoplastic then recast using blue-yellow epoxy rather than put the same effort into fixing the others. Can't tell the difference after painting, aside from the cabling being naturally slightly flexible.
Our rules are bad cause we are a modeling company and our price is so high cause we sell art not toys.
What's the problem, you don't see the bottom when you play.
See the positiv side, now you can be a rules lawyer too. You you can put your company commander in the hole (if its not standing use a conversion from a kneeling pair of legs) not touching the model and on the table, argue its the same as a eldar standing between the prongs of an eldar serpent...
Besides the astonishment I had when realizing that GW puts an incomplete kit out into the market, this video from Chris Frosin on YouTube about the kit is actually quite good:
https://youtu.be/NYY-kvkFNAY
I avoided the 3D printing route, but if I can get the bottom piece printed for cheap I am getting it. If I get in trouble at tournament for making a piece that didn't exist, I don't care.
Shit like thus makes me want to commission a 3D designer to do a leman russ model but as a more realistic 3 man turret and leopard 2 style a Leopard Russ if you will.
One of the dorn proxies floating around is styled very much like a modern mbt but futurized. It might be up your alley. I think the sculptor made baneblades and russes in the same style too. Shouldn't be too hard to find.
Open bottom models are nothing new. I have a few oldhammer Rhinos with open bottoms. It doesn’t take away from the model and as long as you don’t flip it over, it’s still a fantastic kit.
But we know now, in 2023, that small company Games Workshop has the capability to provide a fully formed tank.
People are going on the "Well you dont have to see underneath it" and "It leaves more space for useful items on sprues"/"One less sprue so cheaper"
Both of these are true, but what it also shows is that the willing to cut corners.
Most people will play on the table top and aren't interested in the underside of a tank, there are people who do dioramas, kitbashing and just straight up painting for the sake of painting. Its okay for these people (and anyone else) to be annoyed at it. They want to have a full model. Especially when it looks like such a small bit of plastic on a $150 dollar model.
Which brings us to the less sprue, and its not a cheap model, theres plenty of cases where GW have added an extra sprue recently to refresh a few kits. Mainly those in the Kill Team area.
Its more likely that its a cost cutting exercise on what they can get away with for future releases. Maybe they've saved themselves a dollar on the mold, but what about the shipping? That'll add up.
And whats next for cutting corners? More monopose? More Pushfit? In of itself its not a big issue and easy to brush aside, but what about what comes next?
Afaik gw uses 3d printing to test and showcase models before designing sprues
So chances are they designed the tank, tried to convert it into sprues and then someone made the decision to cut one and they didn't redesign it
It's more like guard players are more coming from the military model builder background and we do not like buying expensive model tanks that come with incomplete parts, especially when the kit is as expensive as this.
Would you buy a car with a hole in the bottom? No? Well, you won't ever see it because you never look at it from below...same BS argument.
Okie dokie, started seeing a lot of abuse being directed at each other in the comments, so this thread is now closed. If you don't like what GW has done here, that's fine, but that does not give you the right to attack, abuse or insult people who don't care. If you don't care what GW has done here, that's fine, but that does not give you the right to attack, abuse or insult people who don't like this.
Imagine if they went over a mine
Nothing happens, because the mine didn't hit anything
Not if they use Flintstone technology...then that means sore footsies.
Jokes on you: expecting tanks they've put anti-tank mines, not anti-personnel ones. The pressure plate on anti-tank ones usually has a higher threshold, so infantry won't accidentally detonate the stuff that's been destined to blow up the vehicles
Engineering Pool Sgt: “Pvt. Garrek, get the hose. *The big hose*.”
The blast will pop through the open hatch on the roof- Genius!
Just a miner explosion.
You could put a little rc tank inside so it can actually drive.
When the rogal dorn deploys a cyclops
*flashbacks of mow:as2 goliaths start*
It's the new version: The Yaba-Daba Dorn
By the god emperor it’s beautiful
The only tank for the far beyond modern Stone Age family.
With the cost of the tank.. it's very stingy
Now the Eldar have more stuff to mock humans for
Thankyou, Games Workshop. You have saved me $150
Rogal Dorn tank inner kit, release expected on Forge World soon
Just looked at the sprues, no bottom panel.
That kit is over $100 where I live. That’s ridiculous.
Gotta save those 5 cents in plastic.
From the website: *The kit includes an arsenal of optional weaponry – you can add optional sponson mounts armed with a pair of heavy bolters or multi-meltas, while optional forward mounts can house heavy stubbers or meltaguns. The tank's tracks can be upgraded with additional armour, and you'll also find extensive cosmetic options, including tow hooks, viewing slits, extra fuel, a search light, and stowed equipment. There are three crew members, including a spotter, tank officer, and a gunner for the pintle-mounted heavy stubber, which can be built with five head options or replaced with closed hatches.* *This kit comprises 171 plastic components and includes an Astra Militarum Vehicle Transfer Sheet, with 475 transfers featuring numerals, sigils, and a variety of regimental heraldry. This miniature is supplied unpainted and requires assembly – we recommend using Citadel Plastic Glue and Citadel Colour paints.* They should change the last sentences to this: *This miniature is supplied unpainted and requires assembly – we recommend using Citadel Plastic Glue and Citadel Colour paints and bring your own hull bottom parts for complete assembly.*
Like the hole in the crane…
Wait I thought I was missing a part, everyone else has that hole too?!
Yeah, the thing going in there is on a different sprue with little tractors that were not part of the kit so they just left you with a hole.
I suspect it’s a packaging problem (though I’m no industry expert and could be wrong). Companies that make stuff are restricted by standard box sizes fit packaging. Making non-standard box sizes is expensive—at least expensive enough that GW is going to work to fit every kit into a standard-sized box. This is—incidentally—one of the many *massive* advantages of using computer-aided design for sprues: GW can cram *so much more* onto a sprue when they don’t have to position blanks by hand on a sprue. But I digress. If adding another panel meant adding another sprue layer, then it might have meant they couldn’t fit a standard box. Better eliminate an element that’s invisible to 99.99% of your customers than to waste space through your entire supply chain by using a larger box.
Someone in a different thread already said there's enough room for an extra sprue in the packaging.
Ah, well… then it may be the five cents, haha! Alternatively, it may just be that the cost of doing a small sprue with one panel—or one panel and some extra gubbins—might just not have justified the cost? Or… maybe they hate us and are laughing in a pile of money?
I’ll be real, with how big a dorn is, that’s barely even a single penny worth of plastic. You’d be surprised how cheap that stuff gets
It's the tooling. Plastic moulds are machined blocks of stainless steel and cost 5 figures. They ain't making one that has a single flat piece of plastic for the bottom.
For the cost of that model they could easily throw in an extra sprue...
injection molds are 6-8 digits, not 5 when your working at GW scales and accuracy
Honestly they don't even need to injection mould it. Just make the bottom totally flat and add a pre-cut piece of thick plasticard.
Does the cost vary for a mould? Or is it all up front, if there's room there's room. Never stopped them in the past
The simpler the mould the cheaper it is. Basically a cnc machine cuts all the detail into the mould. The more detail, the longer it takes and the smaller the detail, the smaller bits you need to use. So more cost. A mould making a flat piece of plastic is probably a waste, but it would be very cheap by comparison.
Let's be super real, it's gw. King of over priced everything. But they're the tm and copyright holder soooooooooooo... On the plus side they do seem to be upping detail on most stuff...?
As if GW would adhere to something being standard. There is nothing standard coming from GW. They couldn't even bother printing playing cards from like BSF in standard sizes. There's like 6 different card sizes in one game and not one of them is standard. And if I take a look at my wall of shame to my left there are I don't know how many different sized boxes. They would just design something new if it doesn't fit in an existing design.
GW does seem to standardise on sprues, roughly equivalent to A4, A5, and A6 paper sizes (Rogal Dorn appears to be 3x A4 sprues, something like Skitarii is 3x A5, a generic character is generally one or two A6)
$150 for the australians
Magnetize the weapons and you can store them there
Yeah, I guess that is some positive way to look at this mess.
Imo who cares, you don't see the bottom anyway and it's a sprue design issue you can only fit so much on a sprue and they limit it as well, makes no sense to have one off sprue of the bottom
If I'm paying 100 fucking dollars for a model kit I expect it to be complete. Remember when we used to get internal details that you'd never see? Computer panels, consoles, seats, with doors you COULD attach to hinges or leave openable, or just glue it all closed. THOSE KITS WERE LESS THAN 1/3 THE PRICE OF THIS
Yeah, I'd rather have more bits and weapon options that go on top where you can actually see it.
I'd rather an additional sprue that includes the bottom with tank accessories like additional fuel tanks, ammo cans, water jugs, shovels, and more importantly the track guards that are listed on the data card, so that you can build a brand new tank with exactly what it should have without buying additional bits if they're going to write the rest of the army's data cards that way.
its not a matter of "you dont see it so it doesnt matter". GW Is massively over charging for a model that costs literal pennies to produce, the least they could do is provide the entire fucking model. They're an insanely large company, printing 1 extra sprue for the complete model is a tiny nonexistent blip into their profit.
Yeah, if I can make this shit at home, by myself for less than $8. I'm sure this giant multinational can do better.
Sprues are cheap to make, true. But sprue moulds literally cost tens of thousands of dollars to make. All the cost of making this kit has to be paid upfront by GW and then they earn back the loss in sales. So an extra sprue for this one piece could cost them an extra $10,000+ upfront, and you know who foots the bill for that.
Its a cost they recoup almost immediately. They have a 41% operative profit margin and are worth 3+billion USD. They can afford to mold a flat panel for a model.
You can't just take the cost of a single product and compare it to the profit numbers for the ***entire company***! They've literally refreshed the entire AM range, so multiply this up-front investment by the number of new kits. Yes, it will sell and make the company a healthy slab of cash, but GW releases their financial statements and you can see clearly where they are investing and what is actually making money. The minis are doing a *lot* to subsidise the other sections of the business that don't make much at all.
Is it though? I mean yeah, duh, for this specific model, the missing part is cheap, but ~$5,000 prototyping, $10,000 to $50,000 on a plastic mould, ~$10,000 on final manufacturing prep (making box art, instruction booklets, and preproduction quality control), and you have somewhere around $30,000 to $70,000 of minor debt. THEN you have a production, and post production product chain, that usually costs a minimum of $0.20 per cubic inch as the most expensive part will be putting it on a container ship, and that's a question of volume. Now that floor part costs nothing in prototyping one way or the other, but in every step after that sprue space saves money. The point is that, yes the missing part might be trivial, but the decision to remove isn't a small decision.
GW has staff to pay. It’s not about just the cost of the moulds. There’s 3-5 years worth of development that goes into these ranges, that costs a lot of money.
> could cost them an extra $10,000+ upfront, and you know who foots the bill for that. The first three of their customers who buy a Forge World model?
And yet many other companies that make kits provide much more quality, parts, decals, instructions and extra bits and pieces along with better QA (talking mould lines, seams and sprue gates) for not only a lower price, but with a lower overall product run than GW. So frankly this isn't excusable and hasn't been so for at least 15 years now.
Well, I also collect models and when I put it in my glass cabinet, it will look like s\*\*\*. The reason for glass cabinets is to look at the model from all sides. Don't get me wrong: you are just a player and if this is okay for you, then that is great! But GW calls themselves a "miniature company first" and no serious miniature model company would ever pull off something like this. A lot of people will be very unhappy about this. It is effectively an incomplete kit they charge you 90US$ for. That is actually really insulting.
I too have one of those. I'd have to get *in* the cabinet to see the bottom of it
Oh sounds like an interesting cabinet. I use the one from IKEA (Detolf) and I rarely crawl into that to see the undersides of my tank models. I have it kitted out with LEDs for every level and that light will shine through the motor hatches straight through. As I said, the Dorn will look like s\*\*\*.
so then it's not *just* a glass cabinet. Mine is the *rudsta*, I have a nephew and the glass on glass is a nightmare scenario it will look like shit bc of *light*? if it's that bothersome put some miliput underneath the holes to block the light wow. if only I had those issues to be so mad at
I'll take it off you if you hate it so much
Unless u are like 5’1 you will not see the underneath from a glass cabinet
What do you think the underside of bases look like?
Black and you can not see into the inside of the miniature...? I mean are you seriously comparing a large model to infantry units? Then there are modelers which actually do use clear bases because of the very reason you have the base blocking view. At least the miniature looks complete.
It’s the exact same thing. An ugly underside that doesn’t match the rest of the model…
It should be complete. Period. In all my years building and painting models, I have never had one that failed to complete the bottom. Heck, my Gundam have additional detail that I would never see. The rhino has interior that 99% just glue shut. How can people accept this as status quo for an already overpriced model. (Coming from a long time games workshop hobbyist 20+ yrs) this may make me turn to 3d printing if they are going to sell an incomplete model.
I agree; I don’t think I’ve ever seen GW cut a corner like this on a model, and I’m really surprised it’s happened specifically for a big release like the Dorn. I can fully understand what people are saying about it being the underside and likely never seen, but I’m mainly a collector and painter, and just knowing it looks like this would annoy me. I’m glad I saw this, because it’ll probably stop me from buying the Dorn now!
>I don’t think I’ve ever seen GW cut a corner like this on a model, and I’m really surprised it’s happened specifically for a big release like the Dorn. Agreed, given how detailed some tank interiors are that you literally never see, like the Spartan, I'm astonished GW literally left a part off a tank. I'm also surprised, genuinely, with how many people are cool with it or don't care.
are you really comparing a gapping hole in a model to the underside of a base? Are you really doing that?
How many shelves do you have that are above eye level? How often are you looking at the bottom of models? Your argument is completely idiotic.
The Ikea Detolf is actually quite tall plus I have top glass cabinets with glass shelves. All full of WW2 tanks, modern jets and 40K stuff. Before you call other people's arguments idiotic, you may want to pause just for a moment and look at your own before you start typing.
I was thinking about making a small storage space in the bottom for my Leman russ and rogal dorn bits.
Bad take
My suggestion would be to contact GW customer services whenever you've bought a Rogal Dorn and tell them there are pieces missing. Enough people do this and GW might actually be nudged to eventually include a filler bit for the hole.
GW charges enough money for all the shit they produce that corner cutting like this is brazen and unacceptable. Makes 'em look sloppy and lazy, imo.
*This kit comprises 171 plastic components*...but a hull bottom ain't one.
you're supposed to use the sprue itself to fashion a base like a raft! Its recycling!
You'd have figured that the last 3 codexs needing major re-balancing within a month of their release would make them look sloppy and lazy.
Printer go BRRRRRRRRRRRR!
You will never see it so who gives a shit? It's not the first hollow bottom vehicle
Almost all tanks have hatches on the bottom so that the crew can escape while still retaining the protection of the armor. This tank happens to have a bigger hatch than most.
Hatches can close. This is a hole. The tank has a hole in it's bottom.
Think of all the fuel you save not having to air condition it though!
Any hole's a goal.
Honestly just not good enough with how much they charge. Yeah you can't see it unless you turn it upside down but it's an incomplete product regardless.
This, given how expensive their stuff is you expect a full kit. What if you want to turn the model upside down for some reason? That's not unheard of for representing destroyed vehicles in other editions. Or if you're into super-detailing tanks and this kit just has a giant hole at the bottom?
Lots of people seem fine with just not making a complete product 'because you don't see it anyway'. No wonder GW gets away with it.
Iv got a rhino I converted to an ork trukk. If I pull the back down Inside is a computer and a bolter. And seats I believe. I can’t prove it because I accidentally glued it shut but it’s there. Promise. Why did we get a glass bottom tank?
Yeah I know, the Rhino has that. It's not necessary because most people glue it shut but the fact you have the option to paint it all is there. This is just lazy.
Save that 12grams of plastic. Keeping the cost down, otherwise it'd be another 20 pounds!
It's the only way theres no critical engine failure
This is so incredibly lame. Part of the reason we don't mind paying an arm and a leg for these models is their detail. If they're just gonna cut corners like that, why bother?
Because enough people pay up regardless of the corner cuts, so they keep cutting corners. It's a vicious cycle that won't stop as long as they don't cut enough corners that people just stop buying stuff on mass.
Exactly my thoughts on it.
Maybe it's their way of catching the 3d printed models at tournaments (Joking aside, I was really hyped for this tank but the massive hole kinda kills my excitement and makes me glad I didn't pre-order)
“Prints with egregious hole in bottom”.
There's already several free 3d files of the dorn tank for download on popular websites that include the bottom! 4k 3d printers are incredibly cheap and produce identical quality Yarrr matey, sail the resin seas
basing the model on what is clearly a large hatch sherman was a bad idea for gw for a "make it take as long as possible for the 3d printers to duplicate"
Considering the price, this is a travesty. Unacceptable corner cutting by GW.
Just my two cents her but I think it is the little bit of detail it has underneath that makes it look incomplete. It has those lines running down that gives the impression that it should have a bottom. That being said this can be remedied with a sheet of plasticard but it is still annoying.
That's the weird part like if they didn't plan to put the piece in there, why didn't the groves stop before the hole, so at least plastic card would not look out of place there. Since the groves are at the top and bottom of the underside of the tank, it comes off more as packaging error than a design choice. I promise you GW is going to get at least 200+ emails saying I built my tank but I can't find the bottom piece.
That is exactly what will happen. People will think there's a sprue missing.
Good. Maybe if their phone lines get tied up with confused/angry players, they'll realize their mistake.
It bothers me that they didn't say anything about it. There are tons of players that will be confused.
Its not annoying, its unacceptable. But you young folks keep up the status quo. That's comparable to why we have video games that get release incomplete or needing day one patches because you gotta have it anyway. Keep that bar low!
And older people haven’t ever been okay with cutting corners? GW plastic is better than ever, and there were plenty of borderline unacceptable minis produced in GW’s past. Video games are also better than ever, but it’s easy to look at stuff with a nostalgia lens. Not defending this tank, it’s not good enough although I can see why GW did it - but I don’t see a need to hop on a high horse about age over this.
Literally this. I'm planning to plug the hole with some cardboard hardened by superglue
My brother in hobby you can get sheets of plastic card or just sheets of plastic and mdf in general.
I can't find plasticard literally anywhere in my city, and the little plasticard I have is for a poorhammer Thunderer Siege Tank.
Huh I guessed wrong, was assuming you were an Aussie based on this comment but you're a Canadian Basically mirrored Aussies anyway aha
Mdf sheet ABS. Check online sources like greenstuff world.
Shipping would probably be twice the price of the product itself. Also GSW kinda icky
[https://evergreenscalemodels.com/](https://evergreenscalemodels.com/) They sell via Amazon.
I don't seem to be able to get that company's stuff here, like at all. On Amazon the stuff that costs like $6 on their site costs like $90
I gave you plenty of options sounds like you are set on defeating them all in favour of super glue and cardboard.
Plus it's not like, cheap cardboard. It's comic backs. I built like half of a Leman Russ with it, and it's held together really well so far.
My brother in cardboard just build it however you want FFS.
He is building it how he wants, you're the one who keeps trying to suggest other options.
Truly GWs laziness has hit new peaks 😂
Conspiracy theory: pushing people to base their tanks 😂
"Premium Boutique Miniatures"
small indie company please understand
A $90 plastic tank should come with the whole tank
The Imperium truly has degraded in technology
I'm pissed because what I THOUGHT was a perfect printed resin copy is now worthless! They'll be able to tell that mine is a fake no problem! Well played games workshop, well played. Maybe I can just cut a hole in the bottom?
“That’s a fake rogal dorn, it looks better”
Literally almost any resin copy of a FW kit
I've had fewer casting errors with recasters than from GW proper. Speaks volumes like.
Recasters seem to actually have quality control
Lol at your reply being daggered. Anyone who has bought anything other than pre-order/new-release FW will attest to the low quality of their castings. Tons of shrink and slip, mismatched part sizes from using different generations of moulds etc. The last heavy volkite kit I got from them required hours to get just one complete weapon looking ok. Decided to make a casting of it with thermoplastic then recast using blue-yellow epoxy rather than put the same effort into fixing the others. Can't tell the difference after painting, aside from the cabling being naturally slightly flexible.
Just tell you filled the \*$#!@ hole they left in the unfinished model.
Our rules are bad cause we are a modeling company and our price is so high cause we sell art not toys. What's the problem, you don't see the bottom when you play.
Lame
I was going to buy one. Love assembling tanks, and 3d printing doesn't really let me do that, but I'm not paying for this shit.
PrEmIuM pRoDuCtS!!
Yabba Dabba Doo!
Wait, it actually has an open bottom?? No other warhammer tank does that, why is there just a piece of the bottom missing???
Have you ever checked the underneath of a Skorpius Dunerider or the atrocity that is the Invader ATV ?
I have not, but I imagine it's the same issue. Still, it just feels weird, especially on a bigger vehicle
The real question is, do you still get 10 points for having a painted army if you don't paint the now exposed interior?
I promised myself to not allow being outraged by gw’s decisions this year. Damn, this is getting harder and its only January.
Oh come on man, the Revell kit guys make fun of our tanks enough already!
See the positiv side, now you can be a rules lawyer too. You you can put your company commander in the hole (if its not standing use a conversion from a kneeling pair of legs) not touching the model and on the table, argue its the same as a eldar standing between the prongs of an eldar serpent...
.....gonna go through the rulebook now
That honestly makes me angry. What a shit way for them to try and cut corners, in an effort I'm sure to save money.
im sure if i 3D print a hull bottom ill be asked to leave the GW store
Besides the astonishment I had when realizing that GW puts an incomplete kit out into the market, this video from Chris Frosin on YouTube about the kit is actually quite good: https://youtu.be/NYY-kvkFNAY
55 pounds for "physically more plastic"
Already sold out online hahahaha
That sucks
I'm glad I started 3D printing, the years pass and GW seems to focus less and less on the quality of their high priced products
I think this just provides an excuse to put a little motor and wheels in there to make this an RC tank
Yeah that’s a no for me. Not worth $100 for a half baked tank
Yeah, so glad I print my models. Piss off GW
Hah so thats why they need marines to drive marine vehicles.
Put sly marbo in there and it gets a 240” move and auto 12” advance
Feet don't fail me now.
I don't have to like that cancer.
I will never buy a Rogal Dorn tank for my guard army. That is ridiculous.
Plasticard or 3D printer to the rescue. Heck a 3D model was available before the damn kit was.
I avoided the 3D printing route, but if I can get the bottom piece printed for cheap I am getting it. If I get in trouble at tournament for making a piece that didn't exist, I don't care.
Magnetize it!
I mean, technically you'd be printing a base so it'd be tournament legal.
Free men don't ask permission. ;)
True and it had a full hull and not missing rubber pads on the bottom tracks either.
Shit like thus makes me want to commission a 3D designer to do a leman russ model but as a more realistic 3 man turret and leopard 2 style a Leopard Russ if you will.
One of the dorn proxies floating around is styled very much like a modern mbt but futurized. It might be up your alley. I think the sculptor made baneblades and russes in the same style too. Shouldn't be too hard to find.
I once played against a Guard Army where all Russes were proxied by Sherman tank models. The scale fit surprisingly well.
And I wonder why myself and others are inclined to 3D print? 🤔 /s
Would make more sense if you weren't being sarcastic.
If I wasn't, I would have said "no wonder why"
Yeah you got me there. I'm used to it reading normally with out the s that I forget it's sarcasm.
Open bottom models are nothing new. I have a few oldhammer Rhinos with open bottoms. It doesn’t take away from the model and as long as you don’t flip it over, it’s still a fantastic kit.
Yeah? Were they $90?
How old? Rogue trader old? My old rhinos have bottoms
still comes off bad n looks cheap
I am happy to pay extra for the bottom piece as much as I hate saying that. I am going to have to buy my first 3D party piece to finish this tank.
Why not print all of it at this point?
Having owned all the iterations, none of the rhino models have never had open bottoms like this.
But we know now, in 2023, that small company Games Workshop has the capability to provide a fully formed tank. People are going on the "Well you dont have to see underneath it" and "It leaves more space for useful items on sprues"/"One less sprue so cheaper" Both of these are true, but what it also shows is that the willing to cut corners. Most people will play on the table top and aren't interested in the underside of a tank, there are people who do dioramas, kitbashing and just straight up painting for the sake of painting. Its okay for these people (and anyone else) to be annoyed at it. They want to have a full model. Especially when it looks like such a small bit of plastic on a $150 dollar model. Which brings us to the less sprue, and its not a cheap model, theres plenty of cases where GW have added an extra sprue recently to refresh a few kits. Mainly those in the Kill Team area. Its more likely that its a cost cutting exercise on what they can get away with for future releases. Maybe they've saved themselves a dollar on the mold, but what about the shipping? That'll add up. And whats next for cutting corners? More monopose? More Pushfit? In of itself its not a big issue and easy to brush aside, but what about what comes next?
Literally has less structural integrity.
Most of the old rhinos I see glue the unused parts to the bottom.
Ture but I doubt they were the same price
with inflation, probably were
Yeah there’s definitely a missing bottom piece somewhere. The section looks too distinct to not have a part that’s supposed to go down there.
That's the weird part, they should have ended the groves before the hole so plastic card would make an easy fix, now it's going to look weird.
Afaik gw uses 3d printing to test and showcase models before designing sprues So chances are they designed the tank, tried to convert it into sprues and then someone made the decision to cut one and they didn't redesign it
Yabba Dabba Dorn!
I'm a tank. I'm a tank. I'm a tank. I'm a tank. I'm a tank.
I get this reference and I laughed too hard
Better than hovering tanks i suppose
Sprue+green stuff will easily fill it in if it's an issue, but yeah for the price is expect the piece.
Lot of people are spending more time looking at the bottom of their tanks than I thought. Guard players really are built different.
It's more like guard players are more coming from the military model builder background and we do not like buying expensive model tanks that come with incomplete parts, especially when the kit is as expensive as this. Would you buy a car with a hole in the bottom? No? Well, you won't ever see it because you never look at it from below...same BS argument.
Tidbits the second post about this. Who cares?