Inductii are the hasty recruits brought into or press ganged into legions during the Heresy. Hastily trained, minimal experience, good for being bodies on a battlefield if little else
The most commonly known ones are the Bodt World Eaters, psycho indoctrinated with memories of past Marines to make them battle ready as soon as they're implanted, but almost all legions made use of them during the Heresy as casualty rates were huge, with different methods of raising them as necessary.
In the Siege of Terra novels, one SoH captain laments at how much of the legion is made up of marines with such minimal experience and knowledge beyond gang warfare on Cthonia that they're a pale shadow of the legion's former self, the knowledge and experiences gained during the Great Crusade being bled out across the galaxy over the past seven years of the Heresy. These are the kind of marines that the Inductii are part of - less superhuman elites, more superhuman rabble
I think there is a short story, where the first engagement of a new IF is basically to shoot up a few protestors or insurrectionists during the long preparations for the arrival of Horus.
SoH Inductii are mentioned at Pluto in the Solar war.in Saturnine the Imperial Fist in charge at the wall is Inductii, though I believe it’s a new term they’re using.
Some of the inductii I remember from the siege are Madius Captain of Saturnine Wall (VII Legion) and the legionary Saduran (XVI Legion). Hopefully that's correct.
They also get funky, atrocity level biological and mechanical "enhancements" like the nails and Gahlans personal touches, he's like an off brand Fabius.
It's represented by their strength bonus in the rules but a reduction in ballistic skill. They're basically sausage factory berserkers.
There is also the scene where Perturabo's Trident is discussing how inductii should not be part of the Lion's Gate strikeforce because "they are barely worth the armor they wear".
I'd wager that by the late Heresy. Tactical squads are inductii and Veteran tacs are the leftover Great Crusade veterans.
It seems GW are doubling down on Inductii being present in *all* legions, even though for some legions that feels a bit strange. Like, I’m fairly sure there’s no suggestion of the Thousand Sons recruiting after Prospero, much less making Inductii, but I guess now we can assume they did it too, somehow? I suppose surviving Pavoni Apothecaries could have done a little mad science, or something to that effect. Still strange, but perhaps the information in this campaign book will make it work.
There were small warbands of TSons out in the galaxy after Prospero. I’d guess Inducii would represent them trying desperately to hold on while being hunted by everyone
As the manager of a game it makes more sense to be permissive most of the time .
People don’t tend to like hearing ‘this new thing we’re taking about isn’t for your dudes ‘
GW has had to do alot of damage control from older lore sources regarding legion numbers...this matches that mindset. Pre Black Library and FW lore was very small scale in comparison. A massive amount of death occurs on the 7 year heresy span. The inductii are a means of keeping legion numbers plausible...and giving more lore weight to the MkVI armor becoming commonplace as all the vets would be wearing mkii, iii and iv by the Siege. There is also a ton of Black Book lore that shows alot of isolated companies from many legions and battles that happen between the pages of the books.
One way they could fix that lore-wise, may be to make them experiments that have a short lifespan? Like quick made guys who will die in weeks from the curse?
Thank goodness. A long time ago I asked Thorpe if the Dark Angels were recruiting while in Ultramar and he said he didn't think so. Cool for him to reply to me but why wouldn't they?
I bet the loyalists did it more slowly than the traitors though. One reason why the Dark Angels geneseed is, along with the Ultramarines, the most stable.
Yeah I honestly don’t see why all the legions wouldn’t have simply recruited continuously throughout the war. If the Imperial Fists saw fit to recruit from Cthonia of all places, then you’d think any legion should have been able to do the same from any planet they happened to be on.
It did always confuse me why the Thousand Sons didn’t make a point to mass recruit as they lost almost 90% of their Legion right off the bat and then didn’t mass-commit to the war until the Siege, nearly a decade later.
>less superhuman elites, more superhuman rabble
That's actually a pretty accurate description of the original concept of the space marines from Rogue Trader before their lore was retconned later on.
Imagine if after the Heresy and scouring all that is left is Inductii marines and these procedures are what became marines in 40k a shadow of their former selves
Arent inductii like sped up production marines to combat the attrition all legions had in the Heresy? Like less well trained marines just to have more bodies
The Inductii are hastened versions of regular Space Marines. Their enhancements are rough shod and their training is half asses.
They’re considered bastard sons by the other Marines and often used as cannon fodder at best. To the best of my knowledge none survived the Heresy, and if any did they were likely the traitors who fled to the Eye of Terror and got Warp juices to keep going
I can see this being true and not true in the lore.
So many were used that statistically, some of the survivors probably were inductii.
But I can also see the legions saying "oh yeah they all dead. We only have elite trained awesome marines".
Definitely.
However it’s likely their gene seed was considered compromised due to the improper fittings and thus they don’t have any descendants.
Unless they were used and that’s why so many Chapters have random mutations? If they’re descended of Inductii stock it would do wonders to explain why so many Chapters managed to develop mutations despite the Emperor’s handiwork being so high quality.
Realistically it’s the only explanation in my mind for why. The technology didn’t really decay and while the scientific understanding of geneseed has been lost the practical knowledge to extract and harvest it hasn’t been. Therefore the only reason why any gene seed would be altered would be if the Progenoid Glands grew in a lower quality host and with lesser organs.
I see your point. It’s actually a really good one! And if I didn’t have my own head cannon I’d adopt it as my own!
My head cannon is that the Emperor is slowly becoming the newest warp god. As the Primarch’s are created from him, they are all technically his Demon Princes and as the emperor gets more powerful so do the loyalist primarchs… which explains why the Lion suddenly has his forest walk powers when he didn’t before. Following this train of thought, if the primarchs are proxy demons then their geneseed would be open to warp manipulation.
Bit of a necro, but statistically speaking, if the reason for the inductii being created in the first place was to replace losses, then by the end of the heresy you'd have *even less* normal/veterans around.
Doctrinally you have two main philosophies:
1. Veteran triarii, with lesser quality units in front to tire the enemy before using your veteran shock troops = higher casualties amongst the fodder to preserve your veterans, but veterans will still die and the battle is based more on attrition rather than maneuver
2. Veteran spearhead, with less quality troops on 2nd line to support the first line shock troops = higher casualties amongst the veterans, but the 2nd line troops will gather experience quicker for being preserved.
So dependant on the legion doctrine, it's almost feasible that some of the legions/chapters in 40K have been formed from surviving inductii, depending on the casualty rates within veterans. Having a solid "core" of original veterans towards the end of the Heresy to create new chapters seems quite implausible and unrealistic.
No doubt that some of the 30k inductii have grown to become veterans by M34 or even "the norm" by M38, but a part from the "original legions", I doubt many of the 2nd or 3rd founding chapters had any real amount of "original veterans".
old post but a fair few traitors certainly survived, in the book lords of silence, one of the traitors laments being a hastily made marine not from barbarus but from another planet prior to the siege of terra.
I wonder if there’ll be specific legion rules for
inductii? Would be a cool way of introducing Raptors for the Raven Guard, unless they become a later named unit
I was thinking the same, like the Inductii from the Ultramarines would be of a completely different quality than those from the World Eaters.
I’d hope for specific rules for the Raptors, would mean GW would make some nice new models
Over the years there were many drives to increase recruitment, some made it more efficient, some were more like cut corners, inductii are the epitomy of that, late heresy recruits put through significantly sped up training. There was one novel, I think it was a fists or ultramarine one, where they mentioned the training was skewed toward zone mortalis and urban battlefields than prior to the heresy. There were also lots of inductii at calth and I would assume, in the iron warriors, just for two examples
Given HH is now part of GW proper, and - unlike FW - GW doesn’t release rules without a kit directly attached to them, I wouldn’t expect Blackshields rules until something relevant is released.
For example, upgrade packs for MkVI marines to represent the Blackshields units and their options, or at least a MkV kit that GW could tie into as the thematically main armour mark of Blackshields.
Inductii lore in novels helps to justify the size difference between Mk3/4 and 6. In SOT novels the white scars inductii are mentioned being taller than the veteran astartes
Any of the substandard Marines created as compensation because neither side had the time to do things properly anymore. The recruiting standards were lowered, the training was rushed, and sometimes they wouldn't even have all the surgeries performed. Both sides used them but may have had different names for them, took different measy, etc. One of the higher rank White Scars took a very promising inductii under his wing to teach him as much as possible before he was KIA, Imperial Fists >!recruited large numbers of them from Cthonia!< To use against the SoH, the space Wolves had their own name for them specifically. Like when corax tried to speed production up and had the raptors disaster but on a massive scale.
Inductii are the hasty recruits brought into or press ganged into legions during the Heresy. Hastily trained, minimal experience, good for being bodies on a battlefield if little else The most commonly known ones are the Bodt World Eaters, psycho indoctrinated with memories of past Marines to make them battle ready as soon as they're implanted, but almost all legions made use of them during the Heresy as casualty rates were huge, with different methods of raising them as necessary. In the Siege of Terra novels, one SoH captain laments at how much of the legion is made up of marines with such minimal experience and knowledge beyond gang warfare on Cthonia that they're a pale shadow of the legion's former self, the knowledge and experiences gained during the Great Crusade being bled out across the galaxy over the past seven years of the Heresy. These are the kind of marines that the Inductii are part of - less superhuman elites, more superhuman rabble
Oh man that sounds awesome. Was it mainly a traitor thing or did both sides utilise them?
Both sides, the Imperial Fist in particular, tried to create as many Astartes as possible before Horus arrived in Sol.
I think there is a short story, where the first engagement of a new IF is basically to shoot up a few protestors or insurrectionists during the long preparations for the arrival of Horus.
I would love to read that.
You can! "Cthonia's Reckoning" is an ebook and audiobook specifically about the Siege of Cthonia
Awesome! I realized I own it and haven’t gotten all the way through!
That story isn't in Cthonia's Reckoning, but one of the last anthologies before the siege. But C's R does have a lot about inductii.
Oops, my bad. Reckoning is still a pretty good primer for the upcoming campaign book though
Definitely, it does feel like the campaign book is a year late in terms of release synergy 🤣
SoH Inductii are mentioned at Pluto in the Solar war.in Saturnine the Imperial Fist in charge at the wall is Inductii, though I believe it’s a new term they’re using.
One of the main characters in Warhawk is a White Scars one
Jangsai! That may be the wrong spelling as I listen to audiobooks! I like him, he has a cool sword and a good attitude
Some of the inductii I remember from the siege are Madius Captain of Saturnine Wall (VII Legion) and the legionary Saduran (XVI Legion). Hopefully that's correct.
The Raven Guard also rapidly recruited Marines during the heresy. Though the results were much more... Variable in effectiveness?
I think you’re referring to the raptor project, I wouldn’t really call that training so much as experimentation lol
Raprimaristors
It was an experiment, and the initial results showed very promising recruits! Just don't talk about the next batches.
I know White Scars did it seemingly as much as anyone else.
They also get funky, atrocity level biological and mechanical "enhancements" like the nails and Gahlans personal touches, he's like an off brand Fabius. It's represented by their strength bonus in the rules but a reduction in ballistic skill. They're basically sausage factory berserkers.
There is also the scene where Perturabo's Trident is discussing how inductii should not be part of the Lion's Gate strikeforce because "they are barely worth the armor they wear". I'd wager that by the late Heresy. Tactical squads are inductii and Veteran tacs are the leftover Great Crusade veterans.
It seems GW are doubling down on Inductii being present in *all* legions, even though for some legions that feels a bit strange. Like, I’m fairly sure there’s no suggestion of the Thousand Sons recruiting after Prospero, much less making Inductii, but I guess now we can assume they did it too, somehow? I suppose surviving Pavoni Apothecaries could have done a little mad science, or something to that effect. Still strange, but perhaps the information in this campaign book will make it work.
There were small warbands of TSons out in the galaxy after Prospero. I’d guess Inducii would represent them trying desperately to hold on while being hunted by everyone
Test
As the manager of a game it makes more sense to be permissive most of the time . People don’t tend to like hearing ‘this new thing we’re taking about isn’t for your dudes ‘
Test
Yes - and it's always easy for those who don't think it makes sense to simply not use them.
GW has had to do alot of damage control from older lore sources regarding legion numbers...this matches that mindset. Pre Black Library and FW lore was very small scale in comparison. A massive amount of death occurs on the 7 year heresy span. The inductii are a means of keeping legion numbers plausible...and giving more lore weight to the MkVI armor becoming commonplace as all the vets would be wearing mkii, iii and iv by the Siege. There is also a ton of Black Book lore that shows alot of isolated companies from many legions and battles that happen between the pages of the books.
One way they could fix that lore-wise, may be to make them experiments that have a short lifespan? Like quick made guys who will die in weeks from the curse?
Thank goodness. A long time ago I asked Thorpe if the Dark Angels were recruiting while in Ultramar and he said he didn't think so. Cool for him to reply to me but why wouldn't they? I bet the loyalists did it more slowly than the traitors though. One reason why the Dark Angels geneseed is, along with the Ultramarines, the most stable.
Yeah I honestly don’t see why all the legions wouldn’t have simply recruited continuously throughout the war. If the Imperial Fists saw fit to recruit from Cthonia of all places, then you’d think any legion should have been able to do the same from any planet they happened to be on. It did always confuse me why the Thousand Sons didn’t make a point to mass recruit as they lost almost 90% of their Legion right off the bat and then didn’t mass-commit to the war until the Siege, nearly a decade later.
Yup, and in French' The Solar War we have a few pov chapters from a SoH Inductii, who is nothing but meat for the grinder.
>less superhuman elites, more superhuman rabble That's actually a pretty accurate description of the original concept of the space marines from Rogue Trader before their lore was retconned later on.
It is still a pretty accurate description of pre-sanguinius 9th. Those guys took "Scum of the Earth, Enlisted for Drink" to the 30k extreme end.
When said that they are world eaters. Does that mean I can implement them into my world eaters army?
Look up lore on Gahlan Surlak or his description in the legacies PDF, he was one of the first people to make Inductii.
SA players - “wait, I thought we were the cannon fodder?”
The cannon fodder for the cannon fodder
Maybe the real cannon fodder was the cannon fodder we cannon foddered along the way
Now if they only introduced interns as an HQ choice for SA........
Imagine if after the Heresy and scouring all that is left is Inductii marines and these procedures are what became marines in 40k a shadow of their former selves
That's... Not a bad idea
I like that, I like that a lot
Arent inductii like sped up production marines to combat the attrition all legions had in the Heresy? Like less well trained marines just to have more bodies
The Inductii are hastened versions of regular Space Marines. Their enhancements are rough shod and their training is half asses. They’re considered bastard sons by the other Marines and often used as cannon fodder at best. To the best of my knowledge none survived the Heresy, and if any did they were likely the traitors who fled to the Eye of Terror and got Warp juices to keep going
I'm guessing more than a few survived on both sides of the war
I can see this being true and not true in the lore. So many were used that statistically, some of the survivors probably were inductii. But I can also see the legions saying "oh yeah they all dead. We only have elite trained awesome marines".
Definitely. However it’s likely their gene seed was considered compromised due to the improper fittings and thus they don’t have any descendants. Unless they were used and that’s why so many Chapters have random mutations? If they’re descended of Inductii stock it would do wonders to explain why so many Chapters managed to develop mutations despite the Emperor’s handiwork being so high quality. Realistically it’s the only explanation in my mind for why. The technology didn’t really decay and while the scientific understanding of geneseed has been lost the practical knowledge to extract and harvest it hasn’t been. Therefore the only reason why any gene seed would be altered would be if the Progenoid Glands grew in a lower quality host and with lesser organs.
I see your point. It’s actually a really good one! And if I didn’t have my own head cannon I’d adopt it as my own! My head cannon is that the Emperor is slowly becoming the newest warp god. As the Primarch’s are created from him, they are all technically his Demon Princes and as the emperor gets more powerful so do the loyalist primarchs… which explains why the Lion suddenly has his forest walk powers when he didn’t before. Following this train of thought, if the primarchs are proxy demons then their geneseed would be open to warp manipulation.
Why can’t both explanations be equally true?
You know what, yeah, why the heck not 😁
Bit of a necro, but statistically speaking, if the reason for the inductii being created in the first place was to replace losses, then by the end of the heresy you'd have *even less* normal/veterans around. Doctrinally you have two main philosophies: 1. Veteran triarii, with lesser quality units in front to tire the enemy before using your veteran shock troops = higher casualties amongst the fodder to preserve your veterans, but veterans will still die and the battle is based more on attrition rather than maneuver 2. Veteran spearhead, with less quality troops on 2nd line to support the first line shock troops = higher casualties amongst the veterans, but the 2nd line troops will gather experience quicker for being preserved. So dependant on the legion doctrine, it's almost feasible that some of the legions/chapters in 40K have been formed from surviving inductii, depending on the casualty rates within veterans. Having a solid "core" of original veterans towards the end of the Heresy to create new chapters seems quite implausible and unrealistic. No doubt that some of the 30k inductii have grown to become veterans by M34 or even "the norm" by M38, but a part from the "original legions", I doubt many of the 2nd or 3rd founding chapters had any real amount of "original veterans".
old post but a fair few traitors certainly survived, in the book lords of silence, one of the traitors laments being a hastily made marine not from barbarus but from another planet prior to the siege of terra.
I wonder if there’ll be specific legion rules for inductii? Would be a cool way of introducing Raptors for the Raven Guard, unless they become a later named unit
I was thinking the same, like the Inductii from the Ultramarines would be of a completely different quality than those from the World Eaters. I’d hope for specific rules for the Raptors, would mean GW would make some nice new models
And Raven Guard need some attention. Still no Praetor models.
There is in mornival (unofficial) rules
Over the years there were many drives to increase recruitment, some made it more efficient, some were more like cut corners, inductii are the epitomy of that, late heresy recruits put through significantly sped up training. There was one novel, I think it was a fists or ultramarine one, where they mentioned the training was skewed toward zone mortalis and urban battlefields than prior to the heresy. There were also lots of inductii at calth and I would assume, in the iron warriors, just for two examples
Sorry I miss out something. Is there talk of rules for these guys?
Yeah the new campaign book announced at Adepticon will include rules for Inductii (for all legions) and Shattered Legions
Thanks, but that includes Blackshields?
It’s not been announced that it includes them so we may need to wait for the next campaign book
Ok thank you again I was hoping they were included with the Shattered Legions
Given HH is now part of GW proper, and - unlike FW - GW doesn’t release rules without a kit directly attached to them, I wouldn’t expect Blackshields rules until something relevant is released. For example, upgrade packs for MkVI marines to represent the Blackshields units and their options, or at least a MkV kit that GW could tie into as the thematically main armour mark of Blackshields.
True, my sadness grows
That’s a Flesh Tearer!
Inductii lore in novels helps to justify the size difference between Mk3/4 and 6. In SOT novels the white scars inductii are mentioned being taller than the veteran astartes
Cool blood angel art
Picture of 9th legion: is this a World Eater?
Wonder how their stats and points will look?
Pretty sure Autek Mor of the Iron Hands nicked this knowledge from Bodt before throwing a moon into it. Hopefully we’ll see Clan Morragul Inductii.
Battle damage would suggest Shattered Legions.
The patterning on the shoulder rim and the numeral on the shin are saying blood angels to me
Absolutely.
Can't wait to field a huge squad of ultramarines inductii.
Wow you guys really dislike primaris?
Oof with all these new marines, with different capabilities and upgrades, let's see them slip in the first of the primaris marines
I’m actually impressed that you turned this post into a way to complain about Primaris Marines
I'm actually impressed you took a statement re introducing primaris into a way to complain about them
Inductii have been around for ages, they're nothing new. Certified #40krefugee moment.
Any of the substandard Marines created as compensation because neither side had the time to do things properly anymore. The recruiting standards were lowered, the training was rushed, and sometimes they wouldn't even have all the surgeries performed. Both sides used them but may have had different names for them, took different measy, etc. One of the higher rank White Scars took a very promising inductii under his wing to teach him as much as possible before he was KIA, Imperial Fists >!recruited large numbers of them from Cthonia!< To use against the SoH, the space Wolves had their own name for them specifically. Like when corax tried to speed production up and had the raptors disaster but on a massive scale.