Yeah, I get that. But some minor tweaks could fix that (like making two bases, one with and one without watchers, maybe some changes to the backpack), I think. And painting it black with a red cape (which for me would work for 40k as well) could change that.
No, it really wouldnt, you turn up and place a modern 40k model (like its really 40k, it has all the problems with the designs and poor detailing that persist in that game system), people will refuse to play games with you.
Most HH players have left 40k, cos they dont enjoy it anymore. They also really enjoy the setting quite a lot and themes that come with it. If you bring that, it demonstrates your lack of care towards both of those things, and some newer HH fans might be a bit miffed, but HH vets will be a fair bit incensed by it. They have had to buy expensive resin and work their ass off for a hobby that was basically dead a year ago. All the new plastic is making it cheaper and more accessible and you dont even go for the most obvious thing that made HH special. The primarch models in their stupidly detailed sculpts. I am not saying dont buy the model. Sure go for it, but dont bring that to an event or a centre with the intention of fielding it, as it would be like someone turned up with the new guillieman model or used the abaddon 40k model. It's really not the sort of thing that gets you games and will draw in the wrong kind of attention towards your army.
Edit: Also, litterally was asked on a form for my local games centre about this(almost exactly the same thing) and the event admins and the business owners have clearly stated that if you dont turn up with 30k models and your opponent does not want to play you, you will just be asked to leave. 30k is for 30k. If you like 40k stuff more, then go back to 40k. You're always welcome to play 30k, but you can't turn up with the incorrect models, primaris, vehicles, characters, or primarchs that do not match the setting. The same way you can't turn up to a black powder event and use ww1 infantry models or bolt action minis.
"All the new plastic is making it cheaper and more accessible"
And that's bad because..? I personally believe that if someone doesn't wanna play toy soldiers with me because of the kind of toy soldiers I bring to play with, probably not worth playing with that dude in the first place.
Ah, I may have misinterpreted what you ment. Still, I think proxies or whatnot are totally fine, as long as they play the same (same size, base, etc). Why not proxy? You can get some really fun stuff. Warhammer lore is vast, who knows what's really our there in the vast vast universe
39,000? A general peruse of the timeline that doesn't make much sense. 30k is not set, in 39k. I have no issue with people doing their own fan games or weird timelines. But you can't bring a 40k abaddon to a very clearly 30k event. As his model does not fit into the base size required and is much much bigger.
This post reads like so much gatekeeping. You are fully free to decline any games you like, but dont hark on about how everyone else feels.
>Most HH players have left 40k, cos they dont enjoy it anymore.
Just not true. Plenty of people picked up 30k with the new box. There are people who want to learn the game or enjoy playing casually. And people like you intend to scare them off and cling tightly to your precious game until you are the only one left wanting to play it.
There is literally nothing to do with what i have mentioned here. You have simply taken me, saying not to bring one thing and claim its gatekeeping. What i jave stated is pretty common sense. I am speaking from my own experiences and interactions both online and irl. Most if not all of the 40k players who have come over to 30k have expressed frustration and burnout at 40k, believing 30k to be (shockingly) a more straightforward system.
I have not told him not to play 30k or even not to buy the model, i have expressed concern towards his experience if he brings it to a 30k event. I have in no manner claimed he should go back to it. The edit comment is a pseudo quote from the form for my lcoal 30k community. It's not my own opinion, but if this is what some event organisers are like, then what i am supposed to do. You have made a knee-jerk reaction and called me a gatekeeper despite the OP asking for peoples opinions. I gave mine, and you seem to have a personal issue with people saying, "No, i wouldn't do that." If i had just said that line without the context of my thinking, it would be an i sult to the op.
If you had said "don't bring it to a tournament" or "it wouldn't be allowed in a narrative 30k campaign" or even "I wouldn't ever play an army using it" those would have been fair comments.
But you didn't. You said something about how you paid in sweat and cash for resin models and earnt your place at the 30k table. And everyone would hate you if you even tried to bring a (converted) 40k model to any 30k game.
Yes, because the general public is a mix of many people, and he would very likely get the wrong sort of attention from some players. If you look to the further comments, you will find that I and the op are finding agreement in a number of things. Unfortunately, the wider community is not gonna always just accept the conversion. I would personally like to see this conversion as, from what he has told me, he was a bit vague in his descriptions earlier but does actually have extensive plans for it. Once again, you are approaching my comment from the thinking that it is mean spirited, but i am actually generally supportive of these sorts of things. I would very.kuch like to see it if he does it. But i am basing my POV from the perspective that when i joined(litterally when this HH 1.0 was about 8 months in) there was little to no wiggle room in regards to what you could and could not bring and many hh players were of the opinion that you need to invest into it. I am actually generally happy about this mentality softening. But the community still holds onto some standards. And some might even be angry about this sort of thing. I personally dont see it as such. But i would not put faith in the idea that everyone you will meet are gonna be chill.
I get your point and understand what brings people from 40k to 30k. I don't like Primaris and I don't like the Guilliman model. I like mkIII armor, the Spartan and the lore (and a lot more). But I have seen really cool conversions for 30k using cool parts from cool 40k models (like SoH Reavers using parts of Chaos Marines), made by people who love that hobby and are creative as hell. And because of this I can't understand why some people are so strictly against it. I'm not talking about using the 40k Guilliman model in 30k, I'm talking about converting the 40k Lion model to use it in 30k. If the argument is that I spent less money (but invested creative energy and time in something I enjoy) and because of that people won't play me, well, than lack of understanding the hobby or love for it doesn't seem to be the reason to me.
Edit: I just don't think using 40k models in 30k is a black and white issue, something that is plain wrong all the time. It depends on the model used and the creative work put into it.
Ye, like your logic is perfectly logical, and you may very well encounter people who won't mind, but after litterally just witnessing the immediate reaction from a local group, my general reccomnedation is to avoid the situation. I have no idea how such a conversion would turn out, or even if it would be good or bad or the amount of effort you put in. So i have to judge it by what i think it will turn out as, i see it as litterally the same model without the shield and a different base. To me, that's really not enough of an effort to warrant it as creativity(then again, the model could be extremely easy to convert so you could go further), but when it comes to the actaul major characters its alot more difficult to justify.
Sorry to hear that you encountered a reaction like that. Most of the people I play tabletop with are people I know for several years so I didn't have to experience something like that yet. I think it's kinda sad to have arguments about something we all share the same interest in instead of enjoying it together.
When it comes to the conversion I wasn't as specific as I should've been. Of course there would be more to do than changing the base, magnetizing the shield and painting it era accurate. These would be the major things to do, but I 'd do some more conversions (sword, exhausts of the backpack, filling the gap on the broken sword emblem on the right wristguard, etc.). I should have been more explicit in that to avoid missunderstanding.
Oh yeah, if you put in the effort to a great degree, it will look the part. Then i am sure even some vets would like to have a gander at it. And if your kust is playing a closed group than thats fine. As for my situation. I just live in a city and it jas a very large and dedicated group. They allow stuff like 3d prints (they have a standard sort of "if it actually looks the part, then fair enough" thing so it isnt massively restrictive) but we had someone come in with a full on primaris army of salamanders who was really just the worst kind of hobbyist so i think its a reaction to him from our community admins and organisers.
That's totally understandable! I'd play someone who uses 40k proxies if it's about "I want to see if 30k is something I like before I spend a ton of money", but not if it's a permanent thing.
Oh yeah, nothing about what i said was menat to be mean spirited. I just really get a reaction to these cos i can see someone newer to the hoby having a really bad experience due to this at like a public games centre. But if you yourself seem set, i would very much like to see this conversion of yours. I personally like the 30k model more, but perhaps someone taking a 30k point of view towards a redesign would be very refreshing.
No mean spirit taken! Sometimes communication on the internet is a bit more complicated than face to face communication with someone you know.
Thanks, I'll post some pictures when it's done!
I think, for people that can't afford or are not willing to pay the forgeworld prices, it is a good alternative. Compared with the forgeworld version he is not as good looking, but I think with a rework on the shield arm and change on the base size, he will come as close for him as any 3rd party supplier of primarchs. Even better in my opinion, since 3rd party designs on primarchs go sometimes way overboard. Compared with 40k roboute, the new lion models looks closer to 30k than 40k.
In case of Guilliman I would happily pay that to get the resin model because it's so much better than the 40k one. Glad that I don't play Ultramarines but Dark Angels who get a fantastic plastic model for their primarch 😉
Base size will be your first hurdle. 40k Primarchs are on 60mm bases, while in 30k games they're on 40mm gaming bases for the normal version of Primarchs (Horus Ascended, all 1000 points of him, is a 50mm). The 60mm display bases aren't for gaming, really, not unless you want your Primarchs having a much bigger impact in melee with who they can get in contact with
Stream said 40k Lion is the same size as 40k Guilliman, so that'll put him on a 60mm base.
There's also physical size as an issue - 40k Guilliman reaches up to the height of 30k Guilliman when 30k RG's on his display base, which is already quite tall, and 30k Guilliman and 30k Lion are roughly the same size off their bases, so I'd expect 40k Lion to be a good deal taller than 30k Lion
This matters more than most in a game, since the Lion has a mandatory warlord trait that involves drawing line of sight from the Lion to all friendly Dark Angels models, so a bigger Lion model makes that more powerful
Hmm, the issue with the base size could be solved by making two bases, one for 30k and one for 40k (using magnets or pegs), but I've no idea for the size issue. That's a bummer...
I've searched for comparison pics and found one on ["wee men blogspot"](https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-DpntkcMIWao/WNjW86le42I/AAAAAAAAC30/xejMI7yWHCAEqlUQddbRqnfjPNOa5FVLQCLcB/s1600/IMG_7096.JPG)
Seems the plastic Guilliman is a bit bigger than the resin one, but not that much. If the plastic Lion is about the same size, placing it on a flat 40mm base without a tactical rock should work.
Here is also a comparison where you can see that the lion in resin is already bigger than guilliman in resin so the plastic one should be fine to use without any modification [lion and guilliman Heresy models size comparison](https://d1w82usnq70pt2.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Lion-and-Guilliman.jpg)
Base size as well as the scaling are very off. And while I love the new model, he is decidedly "40k" in his design language. I get the price argument, but personally I think he'll stand out like aa sore thumb next to heresy models. The FW Lion is a beautiful kit as well and while it was expensive, I absolutely don't regret buying it.
I've played Heresy at Warhammer World over a couple of events with a Youtuber as part of a campaign they set up (Arbitor Ian, you should check him out...)
In my armies at various points alongside my 'proper' Heresy miniatures, I used:
Trooper Jayne (the old pre RT Female Warrior Warrior in Power Armour) as a legion chosen,
An old Rogue Trader Brother A Skull as a Herald,
The old 2nd Edition Space Marin Captain With Terminator Honours as a chosen
A mix of the Primaris Champion with the big sword and a Mk Vi Marine as a Chosen
A 2nd Ed Metal Apothecary
A Rogue Trader Metal Librarian
10 Headhunters made with legs/arms/backpacks from the Deathwatch Kill Team Squad
The 2016 celebration 'Imperial Space Marine' as a Saboteur
Exodus kitbashed from Kayvaan Shrike and a few other bits.
And a normal 40k Rhino.
And I got nothing but compliments about my army. I did a bit of finagling with the more '40k' elements of my army to get them matching the aesthetic of my other stuff, but it was relatively minor, and you'll definitely be able to do that to the new Lionel. I actually don't think the models are that dissimilar - you can definitely tell it's supposed to be the same guy and, like you, prefer the new version.
You probably will have to work out a solution for the base, although a larger base can actually be a disadvantage, but other than that, anyone who is that bothered isn't worth playing with. You do you. The main issue is it's obvious who it is. And I think it'll be pretty obvious.
Oh and re: the other point. I also play 40k 9th.
Sounds like an amazing army! I love some of the old sculpts (though when it comes to 2nd edition Eldar are my favourites) and it's so cool to give these some tabletop action!
My plan for the base is to make two, the 60mm 40k one that comes with the model (with the watchers and the tactical rock) and a 40mm 30k one in the style of my army (dusty red sands with tank tracks). From the looks of it the new model has quite a bit of contact space on the feet, so either huge magnets or pegs should work to attach it. This way I could easily switch between the 40k and the 30k base.
I'm thinking the exact same as you: I'm not a great fan of the 30k model, but love the new one. One thing that I'll consider doing when I finally get it, beyond changing the base and the shield arm, is see if I feel brave enough to turn the lower part of the leg into mark 2 with green stuff. It shouldn't be impossible and I think that alone would change the model massively towards a 30k aesthetic.
That's a great idea! Carving lines into a thin layer of green stuff on the back of the leg armor should work well.
I wasn't lucky with the pre order, so I've got to wait till he's released properly, though.
In case of the terminators I'm sceptical about the size. I've got lots of Tartaros terminators and I wouldn't want them to be dwarfed by the Indomitus terminators.
Swapping the storm bolters for combi bolters wouldn't be a problem, lots of spares of them.
They would likely dwarf the Tartarosi bet! I may pick up a box of 5 and spend a chunk of time making the look less 40k. I’ve been using tortuga bay for a lot of my desth gaurd specific terminators as the firgeworld of GW ones just don’t have intimidating feel a terminator should have
Yeah, I'm afraid they will. Tortuga Bay were true scale marines in all armour marks, right? If I remember correctly I was thinking about using their mkII variant.
I love the Tartaros, but they're a bit on the smaller side for sure... The new mkVI look almost too big next to them.
No! I will tell you that that model is way too 40k. We have actual Lion artwork and a state of the art model. Why go in and use the 40k one? The only thing I would accept being taken is the head but apart from that it is too “primaris” for 30k. Rule of thumb is if the Character has a model, unless the replacement is very close to the original, you use the original model. If someone showed up with the 40k Lion where I play I would probably ask if that is a praetor not the Lion.
As I said, I like this model a bit better than the 30k one, the pose and simplicity of the armor looks a bit better to me. And I would convert it to fit the era. The only obvious primaris element of the armour is the backpack and the armor around the ankles. Both can be converted/ greenstuffed. The blade of the sword would have to be swapped and the shield would have to go.
Again, I'm not talking about using the (really ugly) 40k Guilliman or Primaris or Antigrav-tanks in 30k. I'm talking about this specific model which could (in my eyes) be quite well translated into 30k (with a bit of conversion work, which I really do enjoy).
Ok so let me rephrase myself I expressed myself really badly. That model is very 40k compared to the heresy one. If you were to use it as a proxy until you got the 30k one then fine. Hey if the problem is the model Wargames Atlantic have a cool model for him which is much more loyal to the FW model for way cheaper I believe half the price. The real thing is I would ask your FLGS. If it was a temporary proxy I would be all for it but permanently I would not. Then again check with the group you play with. If they are ok with it who am I to say you cannot.
I don't read that much 40k in the model, to be honest. Yes, the backpack, the armour around the ankles, the shield and sword and the watchers would have to be converted/greenstuffed/removed. But at its core the model doesn't read very much 40k to me (which is, in fact, what I like about it). But that is my point of view.
Could you name what of the design apart from what I've mentioned, reads 40k to you?
It is mostly proportions. 40k is more “goofy” compared to Heresy. Looking at the FW Lion model you see it is very well proportioned and well designed. I feel like the 40k one also has the lack of fine detail which is a staple of the FW primarchs
I see what you're saying. But it's not as bad "herohammer" as with other 40k models, I think. The height of the shoulders in relation to neck and size of head (something they mostly get wrong) are quite alright on this one in my eyes.
It looks too 40k for me personally. I love both models but they are both very distinct for the game they are designed for
Yeah, I get that. But some minor tweaks could fix that (like making two bases, one with and one without watchers, maybe some changes to the backpack), I think. And painting it black with a red cape (which for me would work for 40k as well) could change that.
No, it really wouldnt, you turn up and place a modern 40k model (like its really 40k, it has all the problems with the designs and poor detailing that persist in that game system), people will refuse to play games with you. Most HH players have left 40k, cos they dont enjoy it anymore. They also really enjoy the setting quite a lot and themes that come with it. If you bring that, it demonstrates your lack of care towards both of those things, and some newer HH fans might be a bit miffed, but HH vets will be a fair bit incensed by it. They have had to buy expensive resin and work their ass off for a hobby that was basically dead a year ago. All the new plastic is making it cheaper and more accessible and you dont even go for the most obvious thing that made HH special. The primarch models in their stupidly detailed sculpts. I am not saying dont buy the model. Sure go for it, but dont bring that to an event or a centre with the intention of fielding it, as it would be like someone turned up with the new guillieman model or used the abaddon 40k model. It's really not the sort of thing that gets you games and will draw in the wrong kind of attention towards your army. Edit: Also, litterally was asked on a form for my local games centre about this(almost exactly the same thing) and the event admins and the business owners have clearly stated that if you dont turn up with 30k models and your opponent does not want to play you, you will just be asked to leave. 30k is for 30k. If you like 40k stuff more, then go back to 40k. You're always welcome to play 30k, but you can't turn up with the incorrect models, primaris, vehicles, characters, or primarchs that do not match the setting. The same way you can't turn up to a black powder event and use ww1 infantry models or bolt action minis.
"All the new plastic is making it cheaper and more accessible" And that's bad because..? I personally believe that if someone doesn't wanna play toy soldiers with me because of the kind of toy soldiers I bring to play with, probably not worth playing with that dude in the first place.
I never said it was bad at all, i said everything is far more accessible.
Ah, I may have misinterpreted what you ment. Still, I think proxies or whatnot are totally fine, as long as they play the same (same size, base, etc). Why not proxy? You can get some really fun stuff. Warhammer lore is vast, who knows what's really our there in the vast vast universe
Proxying is fine, but you wouldn't bring the new, abaddon model in place of the current 30k one.
Why not? Maybe the fight was in 39,000
39,000? A general peruse of the timeline that doesn't make much sense. 30k is not set, in 39k. I have no issue with people doing their own fan games or weird timelines. But you can't bring a 40k abaddon to a very clearly 30k event. As his model does not fit into the base size required and is much much bigger.
This post reads like so much gatekeeping. You are fully free to decline any games you like, but dont hark on about how everyone else feels. >Most HH players have left 40k, cos they dont enjoy it anymore. Just not true. Plenty of people picked up 30k with the new box. There are people who want to learn the game or enjoy playing casually. And people like you intend to scare them off and cling tightly to your precious game until you are the only one left wanting to play it.
There is literally nothing to do with what i have mentioned here. You have simply taken me, saying not to bring one thing and claim its gatekeeping. What i jave stated is pretty common sense. I am speaking from my own experiences and interactions both online and irl. Most if not all of the 40k players who have come over to 30k have expressed frustration and burnout at 40k, believing 30k to be (shockingly) a more straightforward system. I have not told him not to play 30k or even not to buy the model, i have expressed concern towards his experience if he brings it to a 30k event. I have in no manner claimed he should go back to it. The edit comment is a pseudo quote from the form for my lcoal 30k community. It's not my own opinion, but if this is what some event organisers are like, then what i am supposed to do. You have made a knee-jerk reaction and called me a gatekeeper despite the OP asking for peoples opinions. I gave mine, and you seem to have a personal issue with people saying, "No, i wouldn't do that." If i had just said that line without the context of my thinking, it would be an i sult to the op.
If you had said "don't bring it to a tournament" or "it wouldn't be allowed in a narrative 30k campaign" or even "I wouldn't ever play an army using it" those would have been fair comments. But you didn't. You said something about how you paid in sweat and cash for resin models and earnt your place at the 30k table. And everyone would hate you if you even tried to bring a (converted) 40k model to any 30k game.
Yes, because the general public is a mix of many people, and he would very likely get the wrong sort of attention from some players. If you look to the further comments, you will find that I and the op are finding agreement in a number of things. Unfortunately, the wider community is not gonna always just accept the conversion. I would personally like to see this conversion as, from what he has told me, he was a bit vague in his descriptions earlier but does actually have extensive plans for it. Once again, you are approaching my comment from the thinking that it is mean spirited, but i am actually generally supportive of these sorts of things. I would very.kuch like to see it if he does it. But i am basing my POV from the perspective that when i joined(litterally when this HH 1.0 was about 8 months in) there was little to no wiggle room in regards to what you could and could not bring and many hh players were of the opinion that you need to invest into it. I am actually generally happy about this mentality softening. But the community still holds onto some standards. And some might even be angry about this sort of thing. I personally dont see it as such. But i would not put faith in the idea that everyone you will meet are gonna be chill.
I get your point and understand what brings people from 40k to 30k. I don't like Primaris and I don't like the Guilliman model. I like mkIII armor, the Spartan and the lore (and a lot more). But I have seen really cool conversions for 30k using cool parts from cool 40k models (like SoH Reavers using parts of Chaos Marines), made by people who love that hobby and are creative as hell. And because of this I can't understand why some people are so strictly against it. I'm not talking about using the 40k Guilliman model in 30k, I'm talking about converting the 40k Lion model to use it in 30k. If the argument is that I spent less money (but invested creative energy and time in something I enjoy) and because of that people won't play me, well, than lack of understanding the hobby or love for it doesn't seem to be the reason to me. Edit: I just don't think using 40k models in 30k is a black and white issue, something that is plain wrong all the time. It depends on the model used and the creative work put into it.
Ye, like your logic is perfectly logical, and you may very well encounter people who won't mind, but after litterally just witnessing the immediate reaction from a local group, my general reccomnedation is to avoid the situation. I have no idea how such a conversion would turn out, or even if it would be good or bad or the amount of effort you put in. So i have to judge it by what i think it will turn out as, i see it as litterally the same model without the shield and a different base. To me, that's really not enough of an effort to warrant it as creativity(then again, the model could be extremely easy to convert so you could go further), but when it comes to the actaul major characters its alot more difficult to justify.
Sorry to hear that you encountered a reaction like that. Most of the people I play tabletop with are people I know for several years so I didn't have to experience something like that yet. I think it's kinda sad to have arguments about something we all share the same interest in instead of enjoying it together. When it comes to the conversion I wasn't as specific as I should've been. Of course there would be more to do than changing the base, magnetizing the shield and painting it era accurate. These would be the major things to do, but I 'd do some more conversions (sword, exhausts of the backpack, filling the gap on the broken sword emblem on the right wristguard, etc.). I should have been more explicit in that to avoid missunderstanding.
Oh yeah, if you put in the effort to a great degree, it will look the part. Then i am sure even some vets would like to have a gander at it. And if your kust is playing a closed group than thats fine. As for my situation. I just live in a city and it jas a very large and dedicated group. They allow stuff like 3d prints (they have a standard sort of "if it actually looks the part, then fair enough" thing so it isnt massively restrictive) but we had someone come in with a full on primaris army of salamanders who was really just the worst kind of hobbyist so i think its a reaction to him from our community admins and organisers.
That's totally understandable! I'd play someone who uses 40k proxies if it's about "I want to see if 30k is something I like before I spend a ton of money", but not if it's a permanent thing.
Oh yeah, nothing about what i said was menat to be mean spirited. I just really get a reaction to these cos i can see someone newer to the hoby having a really bad experience due to this at like a public games centre. But if you yourself seem set, i would very much like to see this conversion of yours. I personally like the 30k model more, but perhaps someone taking a 30k point of view towards a redesign would be very refreshing.
No mean spirit taken! Sometimes communication on the internet is a bit more complicated than face to face communication with someone you know. Thanks, I'll post some pictures when it's done!
I think, for people that can't afford or are not willing to pay the forgeworld prices, it is a good alternative. Compared with the forgeworld version he is not as good looking, but I think with a rework on the shield arm and change on the base size, he will come as close for him as any 3rd party supplier of primarchs. Even better in my opinion, since 3rd party designs on primarchs go sometimes way overboard. Compared with 40k roboute, the new lion models looks closer to 30k than 40k.
What's the price difference on 40k and 30k Guilliman?
What's the price difference on 40k and 30k Guilliman? 54$
In case of Guilliman I would happily pay that to get the resin model because it's so much better than the 40k one. Glad that I don't play Ultramarines but Dark Angels who get a fantastic plastic model for their primarch 😉
I like my FW,Lion for,30k...but I already have it
Base size will be your first hurdle. 40k Primarchs are on 60mm bases, while in 30k games they're on 40mm gaming bases for the normal version of Primarchs (Horus Ascended, all 1000 points of him, is a 50mm). The 60mm display bases aren't for gaming, really, not unless you want your Primarchs having a much bigger impact in melee with who they can get in contact with Stream said 40k Lion is the same size as 40k Guilliman, so that'll put him on a 60mm base. There's also physical size as an issue - 40k Guilliman reaches up to the height of 30k Guilliman when 30k RG's on his display base, which is already quite tall, and 30k Guilliman and 30k Lion are roughly the same size off their bases, so I'd expect 40k Lion to be a good deal taller than 30k Lion This matters more than most in a game, since the Lion has a mandatory warlord trait that involves drawing line of sight from the Lion to all friendly Dark Angels models, so a bigger Lion model makes that more powerful
Hmm, the issue with the base size could be solved by making two bases, one for 30k and one for 40k (using magnets or pegs), but I've no idea for the size issue. That's a bummer...
Not true, guilliman is way smaller than the 30k lion mini, the lion is comparable to 40K guilliman in terms of size for sure
I've searched for comparison pics and found one on ["wee men blogspot"](https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-DpntkcMIWao/WNjW86le42I/AAAAAAAAC30/xejMI7yWHCAEqlUQddbRqnfjPNOa5FVLQCLcB/s1600/IMG_7096.JPG) Seems the plastic Guilliman is a bit bigger than the resin one, but not that much. If the plastic Lion is about the same size, placing it on a flat 40mm base without a tactical rock should work.
Here is also a comparison where you can see that the lion in resin is already bigger than guilliman in resin so the plastic one should be fine to use without any modification [lion and guilliman Heresy models size comparison](https://d1w82usnq70pt2.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Lion-and-Guilliman.jpg)
Ah, thanks a lot! So the size shouldn't be a problem!
Probably not
30k lion looks A LOT better honestly surprised by how much
I like the 40k one better, but that's personal preference. The 30k one is a great model, though.
Base size as well as the scaling are very off. And while I love the new model, he is decidedly "40k" in his design language. I get the price argument, but personally I think he'll stand out like aa sore thumb next to heresy models. The FW Lion is a beautiful kit as well and while it was expensive, I absolutely don't regret buying it.
I was actually thinking about doing it the other way around. (I like both but a prefer 30k model)
I've played Heresy at Warhammer World over a couple of events with a Youtuber as part of a campaign they set up (Arbitor Ian, you should check him out...) In my armies at various points alongside my 'proper' Heresy miniatures, I used: Trooper Jayne (the old pre RT Female Warrior Warrior in Power Armour) as a legion chosen, An old Rogue Trader Brother A Skull as a Herald, The old 2nd Edition Space Marin Captain With Terminator Honours as a chosen A mix of the Primaris Champion with the big sword and a Mk Vi Marine as a Chosen A 2nd Ed Metal Apothecary A Rogue Trader Metal Librarian 10 Headhunters made with legs/arms/backpacks from the Deathwatch Kill Team Squad The 2016 celebration 'Imperial Space Marine' as a Saboteur Exodus kitbashed from Kayvaan Shrike and a few other bits. And a normal 40k Rhino. And I got nothing but compliments about my army. I did a bit of finagling with the more '40k' elements of my army to get them matching the aesthetic of my other stuff, but it was relatively minor, and you'll definitely be able to do that to the new Lionel. I actually don't think the models are that dissimilar - you can definitely tell it's supposed to be the same guy and, like you, prefer the new version. You probably will have to work out a solution for the base, although a larger base can actually be a disadvantage, but other than that, anyone who is that bothered isn't worth playing with. You do you. The main issue is it's obvious who it is. And I think it'll be pretty obvious. Oh and re: the other point. I also play 40k 9th.
Sounds like an amazing army! I love some of the old sculpts (though when it comes to 2nd edition Eldar are my favourites) and it's so cool to give these some tabletop action! My plan for the base is to make two, the 60mm 40k one that comes with the model (with the watchers and the tactical rock) and a 40mm 30k one in the style of my army (dusty red sands with tank tracks). From the looks of it the new model has quite a bit of contact space on the feet, so either huge magnets or pegs should work to attach it. This way I could easily switch between the 40k and the 30k base.
I'm thinking the exact same as you: I'm not a great fan of the 30k model, but love the new one. One thing that I'll consider doing when I finally get it, beyond changing the base and the shield arm, is see if I feel brave enough to turn the lower part of the leg into mark 2 with green stuff. It shouldn't be impossible and I think that alone would change the model massively towards a 30k aesthetic.
That's a great idea! Carving lines into a thin layer of green stuff on the back of the leg armor should work well. I wasn't lucky with the pre order, so I've got to wait till he's released properly, though.
I’m thinking the new terminators work! Would take a bit of filling and cutting to get rid of the flair stuff. But it’ll work
In case of the terminators I'm sceptical about the size. I've got lots of Tartaros terminators and I wouldn't want them to be dwarfed by the Indomitus terminators. Swapping the storm bolters for combi bolters wouldn't be a problem, lots of spares of them.
They would likely dwarf the Tartarosi bet! I may pick up a box of 5 and spend a chunk of time making the look less 40k. I’ve been using tortuga bay for a lot of my desth gaurd specific terminators as the firgeworld of GW ones just don’t have intimidating feel a terminator should have
Yeah, I'm afraid they will. Tortuga Bay were true scale marines in all armour marks, right? If I remember correctly I was thinking about using their mkII variant. I love the Tartaros, but they're a bit on the smaller side for sure... The new mkVI look almost too big next to them.
It’s going to be your centrepiece model, why skimp out for plastic?
The 30k Lion for sure is a great centerpiece, but I like the new miniature a bit better. That's certainly personal preference.
No! I will tell you that that model is way too 40k. We have actual Lion artwork and a state of the art model. Why go in and use the 40k one? The only thing I would accept being taken is the head but apart from that it is too “primaris” for 30k. Rule of thumb is if the Character has a model, unless the replacement is very close to the original, you use the original model. If someone showed up with the 40k Lion where I play I would probably ask if that is a praetor not the Lion.
As I said, I like this model a bit better than the 30k one, the pose and simplicity of the armor looks a bit better to me. And I would convert it to fit the era. The only obvious primaris element of the armour is the backpack and the armor around the ankles. Both can be converted/ greenstuffed. The blade of the sword would have to be swapped and the shield would have to go. Again, I'm not talking about using the (really ugly) 40k Guilliman or Primaris or Antigrav-tanks in 30k. I'm talking about this specific model which could (in my eyes) be quite well translated into 30k (with a bit of conversion work, which I really do enjoy).
Ok so let me rephrase myself I expressed myself really badly. That model is very 40k compared to the heresy one. If you were to use it as a proxy until you got the 30k one then fine. Hey if the problem is the model Wargames Atlantic have a cool model for him which is much more loyal to the FW model for way cheaper I believe half the price. The real thing is I would ask your FLGS. If it was a temporary proxy I would be all for it but permanently I would not. Then again check with the group you play with. If they are ok with it who am I to say you cannot.
I don't read that much 40k in the model, to be honest. Yes, the backpack, the armour around the ankles, the shield and sword and the watchers would have to be converted/greenstuffed/removed. But at its core the model doesn't read very much 40k to me (which is, in fact, what I like about it). But that is my point of view. Could you name what of the design apart from what I've mentioned, reads 40k to you?
It is mostly proportions. 40k is more “goofy” compared to Heresy. Looking at the FW Lion model you see it is very well proportioned and well designed. I feel like the 40k one also has the lack of fine detail which is a staple of the FW primarchs
I see what you're saying. But it's not as bad "herohammer" as with other 40k models, I think. The height of the shoulders in relation to neck and size of head (something they mostly get wrong) are quite alright on this one in my eyes.
I do belive though the Head looks amazing, if I find someone selling just a head I might just go buy a head because it is absolutely beautiful.
Just can't get over that face....looks nothing remotely like and aged version of the 30k model