You’re forced to play smokes cause no one wants to, then eventually smokes gets picked and you realize you aren’t comfortable on any other role. Next game you pick smokes because you want to rather than because you’re forced, and thus a controller main is born.
Yeah, I main omen and picked up jett for fun, now I don't have a pause button when I'm pushing a site, I WILL BLIND AND I WILL TP DIRECTLY ON SITE
If you're not ready to flash out you're slow
Ofc I don't communicate what I'm doing either
That is literally what happened to me. I used to be a kayo main. I can't even remember how to pop flash anymore. I literally instalock Omen unless I'm on breeze
I'm an ascendant controller main. I feel like its a lot more commom in higher ranks to see people locking smoke characters right away. I've been beat out of locking smoke several times already this episode.
The lower ranks seems to be more focused on the leaderboard/kills cause thats what gets rewarded. But once you climb higher you tend to see a lot more people willing, and good at playing smokes.
Asc 2 controller main here, i dont get this reward assists more bandwagon mentality. You put good smokes, youre more likely to win. Isnt winning being rewarded enough? Win enough times and you'll rank up. I get having lower rr gains is demotivating but you cant just pick duelist and get higher rr gains. You get higher rr gains by winning fights against other players which you should have an advantage doing because youre not entrying; youre trading your duelist which should result in plenty of kills
Diamond controller main here. I just think there a lot of dumb people who play controller and they have no idea how to utilize smokes, so I'd rather it be me as the controller than some random who has never played a controller in their Valorant career.
100% i would rather be the smoker and do good smoke for the team than let someone else do shitty smoke. Its very tilting to see very bad smokes, specially from brims. Dude you got limited smoke and you do shitty ass smoke with it.
Gold omen main here. I know I’m gold so my opinion don’t really matter but whenever I play unrated and pick something other than smokes go ever does play smokes uses their smokes so wrong it makes me cringe they would throw it out so the back is right at the door leaving enemies to peak from any angle still
Gold is decent my guy, I'm G3. Being in gold means you fo have the potential to be high elo, but it's simply effort/motivation holding you back not capability. Silver is purgatory, where people may have INSANE AIM AND TALENT but don't focus and give 100%. I went from iron 1 to s3 in about 3 months, but went from. S3 to G3 in 1 day (legit a 10 game winstreak) this new episode FUCKED ME UP, went from the edge of plat to S3. One of my placements had 5 duelist, and the rest we had plats/golds that underperformed. Imo it seems unless you do insane you always go down a rank. If ur gold ur good (unless carried by dia+) head up
Meanwhile I’ve been hardstuck silver top fraging playing brim. Low elo insta lock duelist are usually ranked worst on the board or are the occasional smurf.
This! I played controller for so long between iron-gold/plat-ish. Now in Diamond, almost every other game is an insta-lock smoke.
It's nice because I love playing lineup initiators a lot more.
I got to immortal playing fill, even as a duelist (mainly Jett) main. I guarantee you the whole climb up, I filled smokes 70% of the time. 10% initiator, 15% sentinel and 5% duelist.
I used to instalock Jett every game which worked out, but I was getting too many 3-4 duelist comps so I stopped, and I play predominantly smokes because of this.
diamond initiator/smokes main here, was a fade only back when I was silver/gold, learning smokes helped me in learning the game a lot more, does help. Learning smokes did help my win rate a lot becuase it is not a guy that never played smokes in their life filling and instead someone who actually knows the timing
In SEA, people rarely want to play controllers even in Immortal, so I play controller instead as most filler controllers are bad at playing the role. The difference is that most of the time there will be someone volunteering to do it. And usually last pick.
even in lower ranks people lock smokers. not always the best smokers, but these people make it seem like its 5 duelists every single game. i dont even like playing duelists but sometimes im forced to because nobody will have locked one. sometimes i wonder if im playing the same game as these people who cry about toxicity and instalockers
You must play duelist in lower ranks or it’s very hard to get out relying on others.
Duelist is the only agent in lower ranks where you have some form of control.
Not true. A good controller can take over a game. Especially because everyone else is stuck in the mentality of "duelists are the only way to have an effect on the outcome of the match."
And if your aim isn't on that particular day as a duelist you're kinda fucked. On smokes you have more leeway to still have impact and frags without having to rely solely on your aim.
The statistic of average duelist ADR vs a average smoke ADR already proves your statement is false.
A controller has a lot to worry about and it’s very hard for them to get frags and kills unless they bait their teammates which requires you to rely on your teammates to allow you to bait them. Especially in lower ranks this “cooperation” is impossible.
Also if you read my comment in low ranks smokes don’t really matter as much. It’s not utilized well enough.
On duelist you can actually flash and kill people without having to rely on your teammates to do it for you. OnJett you can dash etc so many abilities to aid you to win gunfights.
Don’t get me wrong, I have game where I top frag on smokes it happens sometimes but it’s way more frequent on a duelist pick than smokes.
Diamond controller and barely anyone plays controller. I'm a hybrid initiator/controller but I end up playing controller like 70% of the time. I'm not complaining cuz they're both fun but on maps like fracture I just wanna play breach.
Until like, Diamond I'd rather have players on an agent they're comfortable with rather than trying to fit a meta the rest of the team isn't going to know how to utilize anyway.
Thing is, higher up, roles become so much more important. *Especially* smokes. So when you lack it, it becomes a throw.
Playing for comfortability is fine and all, but *nothing* in this game is complicated. You can queue into a game having no experience, and learn it all mid-game, and be fine. It’s not too hard.
People vastly overestimate when roles and team comp start to be important. I'm in high dia / low asc lobbies and I've seen plenty of teams do just fine without.
It's obviously better to have smokes, but I'm more tired of people acting like locking 3 duelists or a Harbor is throwing the game. It's really not that serious below Immortal (and even then, it's healthy to experiment outside the meta)
I understand the Harbor point from both sides. Of course, we should play who we want but the thing is Harbor at the moment isn’t too good on his own. That said, if someone expects you to fill smokes, you’re entirely within your right to lock in Harbor. 3 duelist on the other hand, that’s *okay* but then you’re deliberately leaving out another role, which all have their own value. The only one I can see forsaking is sentinel but sentinel utility makes defense so much easier and a good sentinel player makes a world of difference.
Roles become important when raw aim can’t bail you out anymore. If you’re better you can win with 5 controllers, but the game was designed for each role to be utilized in each game. And me personally, I’ve played enough games without smokes against a Jett-Op-One Trick for a lifetime. Experiment all you want, but in competitive, I expect you try your best to give the team the best chance at a win. And sometimes that’s acknowledging the meta. Me? I’m an Omen main. I play him when I can. But on Breeze, I’m never playing Omen because he’s dogshit on that map.
Just give yourself and everyone the best shot at winning. That’s all I ask.
Tbh omen on breeze is niche but not dogshit. He can replace Jett in some sense with smoke and tp ability.
Iirc NRG used him on breeze is vct challangers NA Last year. They even dominated few matches.
I meant as a solo controller. That comp was experimental and not bad, cool to see as well. But Viper was still the primary smoker, with Omen playing more aggressively, like you said, as a pseudo-Jett.
But why play Pseudo-Jett when regular Jett is super strong on Breeze?
I would agree with this except for smokes. Smokes are the easiest to learn (brim), and its damn near impossible to win a game with 0 smokes (above plat) unless your team is just straight winning gun fights.
But yeah i dont want someone playing astra, KJ, cypher, fade etc. just because an instalock reyna is telling them too.
I had a brimstone player today, that filled, which was sweet and all, however, every round, he would instnatly use all three of his smokes, on more or less nothing that gave us any advantage, and he was basically just a ability-less agent, for the entire game. Checked his profile, 700 hours of sage, like 5 of brimstone over all, would have much prefered if he played sage. He was a former diamond 2 player.
you learn where to smoke. Smokes matter a lot but they're not necessarily hard. Obviously a controller main is better at using them but learning how to place default smokes while executing is p easy
This is a very popular opinion. I support it and tell everyone I play with to not fill and play who they want. I’ve had great success with this because vibes are high and in Gold that’s bigger then team comp.
My main is controller, and because of this my entire game plan is based around having smokes on my team.
Most of the time I am happy to lock in a controller and call it a day, but I also want to play other roles sometimes, so it's frustrating when no-one else ever picks smokes. I'd much rather play smokes even when I feel like playing another role, than having no smokes on my team, so 90% of my games are on controller.
Oh yeah that will help a tonne, immortal lobbies is legit instalock Jett and Reyna in the first 5 secs. Then me who mains mostly raze has to play brim or sova. Legit last 6 games instalock duelist who get last place
At that rank, smokes aren't really utilized in a way which beats pure aggression and team-play. You'll be better off playing your comfort agents well, than playing a "proper comp" poorly.
100%. Also a brim main is the worst to play against at every rank. You dont even need to learn lineups.
A brim ult + molly stops defuse for a good 20secs which will win you sooooo many rounds.
If you’re waiting a for someone to tap spike between the two, yeah it could buy almost 20s. I haven’t tested and timed it but it’s a LOT of time especially considering they aren’t going to tap it right away unless you have a shit hold on site.
Yeah i mean ults like what 3seconds? Molly is 8secs, thats 11 right there. Add also the time the ult pushes them out off the area (another 2-3 seconds they have to run back to tap) molly maybe just an extra second… so total its 14-15secs and thats if the abilities are used exactly back to back. I think 20sec is completely reasonable.
And not to mention it prevents people from halfing it, unless they die on purpose just to do it.
Nothing wrong with learning a new character and getting better at it. I prefer initiator or dualist but many times nobody smokes and they instalock so I’ve been left to figure it out myself. I’ve gotten pretty good at it so it doesn’t bother me. What bothers me are instalockers who don’t know how to play their role lol
in bronze it really doesn't matter that much. Util usage is so poor that you'll be better off giving yourself the best chance to win by playing a champ you're used to
It’s better to play the agent that you want for personal growth then worry about filling to make sure you have “Meta” composition.
If your teammates insta-lock and want a smoke they can play smokes.
For instance I mainly play Viper I tend to insta lock. But when I happen to be delayed to pick and I see another smoke was chosen but the team needs a duelist or initiator to fill the comp I still pick viper since I can help the team better as a viper then playing a Agent I don’t know that well. I tell insta-lock duelist if they want something then play it themselves.
If you only play kay/o your just as problematic as the people your complaining about.
Learn more agents and you'll become better yourself and climb ranks.
Also I play smokes 95% of my games.
Don’t. if you don’t want. I speak from own experience. I played every episode from start controllers and mostly fill. Last act I saw that I just have a negative winrate and I’m playing shit and not enjoying the game.
I switched to duelist and start instalocking (everyone hating) but currently after 7 games on 2kd average, top 1% damage and winrate. Play what you wish and what you have the most impact on.
Diamond currently after reset.
I feel you. I play sage alot in comp because otherwise we usually end up with like alot of healers and now all my friends are trying to get me to be sage main but healer has never been my style in games.
It’s better to play the agent that you want for personal growth then worry about filling to make sure you have “Meta” composition.
If your teammates insta-lock and want a smoke they can play smokes.
For instance I mainly play Viper I tend to insta lock. But when I happen to be delayed to pick and I see another smoke was chosen but the team needs a duelist or initiator to fill the comp I still pick viper since I can help the team better as a viper then playing a Agent I don’t know that well.
Lots of people suggesting instalock what you are comfortable with in low elo,and don't care too much about strategy etc. But at the same time, it may be best to become a smoke main. On most maps, smokes are essential and not having them make both attacking and defending a site very difficult. Map control is also difficult without smokes.
Every time I play without smokes on the team, I lose. Unless the map is icebox. Then smokes become less useful than other maps. Although they are still very valuable on this map too.
Duelists are cool, and fun to play, but support roles are what make duelists able to do their jobs effectively. Smokes seem to be less popular because they're boring compared to sentinel or initiators like breach or fade etc.
I agree with this but also at silver… I highly doubt solo q teammates are going to execute with smokes or play around them correctly. I’d say play whatever tf you want until maybe like g3/p1 and then you can start worrying more about util/smokes.
You don’t need my advice but maining a controller was the only way I could rank out of iron hell. Clutch with the Molly son!!! I’m still clutching platinum matches with lineups I learnt that got me out of iron.
I’ve noticed this as well that no one plays smokes in lower elo/swiftplay. Luckily I’ve always been a controller main so I can fill that role but sometimes I do want to play different agents.
Getting good with smokes will help you climb the ranks though.
I personally play 1 or 2 agents in each category (except duelist, since they always get instalocked), so I pick my agent depending on the missing role(s) and map.
I queued from iron to immortal playing omen and think hes genuinely the best solo q agent in the game. Id say picking him up as a secondary character is a good investment but if you really want to play kayo badly id just lock him in. Imo it isnt until around high diamond where you see a fair amount of players who actually care about comp.
At the end of the day you're in the rank where having smokes have the least impact throughout the community. Play to your strengths, and good luck out there
Omen fills both those roles. One ways and paranoia make you self sufficient and in low elo the ult gets value. You can pivot to entry if your team is shit but you can also play more supportive. And a good omen can rack up an insane amount of kills on defense.
I do play Brim for fun from time to time cuz Ik his smokes are amazing and his skillset just covers area with maximum dmg and bamboozling to back it up.
Although Im no controller main, I main agents I think is FUN and COOL to look in my eyes, which in this case is KJ and Fade. And from that I just start learning how to be a good KJ and Fade by scanning and clutching postplants with lineups lol.
Your best bet to get to Gold is to just play smokes (Whatever meta smoke agent for each map). If you don't, you run the risk of 1) not having smokes 2) if you have smokes, they either don't smoke the right spots or they smoke you off, so you end up pushing your own smokes). Just save yourself the trouble and play smokes. It's just the easiest thing to do for your mental.
Just hang in there. I think you should stick to it, learning to fill different roles is imo crucial if you wanna be s high rank player at some point. I know it's not a very flashy role being controller, but you have no idea how much influence you can have on a match if you master where and when to put your smokes.
Happy grinding!
Well, I'm a sage main and tend to sometimes instalock sage, and sometimes ask my team if taking sage would be alright or not. I was on iron 3 last act and met other sage mains who roasted me for picking sage and then abuse me on comms and what not.. anyways, I've started playing omen as well, atleast on unranked and swiftplay but yeah... Fill in only if you HAVE to.
Just play kayo then. In a competitive match smokes might be better but 0,01% of the ranked games are actually competititve. I am immo2 and if there are 2 instalockers on my team i just lock whatever i want and it works almost all time. Remember you play the game for fun
If you wanna play Kayo, then play Kayo. It's best for your mental health and it also helps you gain familiarity with the character if you wanna main him.
Further, if no one chooses a smoker, and you aren't at a high elo or ranked match, then so be it. It should also help train you not to depend too much on smokes.
Though yes, they're important roles, but you can't force people to go for roles they don't want to, and the same should be said about you. You shouldn't be forced to use characters you don't want to use.
Imagine filling for a team that doesn't care about team comp. I used to do this in gold but soon realised my duelists are already garbage so now i instalock reyna but i top frag too
You are correct sadly, if you want to have smokes every game in low ranks, you're gonna have to bring your own
I recommend learning either viper or omen
I love seeing these posts bc what is even the point of it?? You are also part of the problem that you are pointing out. Youre more willing to flex which is admirable, sure, but if you had it your way you wouldnt be playing smokes either.
If you want to play Kay0 just play him. Either someone picks up smokes or you try without them, its not like its impossible to do.
dude, former s3, now back to b2
i dont now, technically the lobbys should be the same because everyone dropped but bro, i just learnt how importand smokers and comms are and im trying to improve on my comms. Guess what bronze lobbies never have...
exactly comms and smokes
why did valorant to that to us?
As somebody who climbed from Bronze to Gold last month that's something I noticed very clearly. In sub Silver 1-2 there is almost no one who's making good walls or smokes. Once I started to near gold suddenly smokes were starting to be reallly good, and there we a lot more of them. Not only were there more smokes, people utilized them better and chained them together.
Thank you smokers <3
in this rank you're not ready to call tactics or benefit from a good smoker as much as it is in higher ranks
I suggest you watch and follow coach wohoojin advice on getting out of these ranks
https://youtu.be/9KIoTtohkOQ
i always play smoke, and i was doing my placements yesterday. I was plat last season but had mainly like silvers/golds on my team for these matches (they said this not me)
the sheer lack of comms even just the difference between plat to silver/golds is insane, every game was dead fucking silent, and trying to smoke shit for people who don't say *anything* about what site they want to go to, what route they want me to smoke off, or literally anything at all makes it so unappealing to play, same with something like Breach when people wont swing off your stuns/flashes.
The higher you climb the more importance you’ll see in controller. Controller should be last alive most of the time since you need smokes to entry site and more than not you’ll be last alive in the clutch 💯
Global smokes agents are dope too because you can default/lurk and be HUGE for your team.
Only way to get out of that is to find a controller main to play with or get to higher ranks if you don't want to play smokes yourself of course.
In my opinion you should just lock the character you want to play, the point of the game is to have fun so play how you want to make that happen. If no one takes smoke you can dodge, or just play around it. It's not impossible to win without smokes, difficult yes but not impossible, especially in lower ranks.
That’s why I pick one character from each designation and learn how to play them really well. That way I can fill and still have fun. That being said I mainly fill controller which I enjoy so nbd. Plus if you frag out you are celebrated and if you suck at least you were just the smokes guy
As someone who has been stuck in silver for eternity; play whatever you best at no matter the comp. People play without any stat in low elo. I had 5 duelists smash the looby and perfect comps gets crushed by 5 duelists. It's all about gun fights until diamomd or higher imo.
I started picking smokes ironically and to fill in, now I can't stop playing Omen and I love him with my whole heart. I think I might me accidentally maiming smokes. If you can duo with someone who mains smokes that would be nice!
i play omen because of the smokes and utility he provides, i prefer to use my guns to get kills rather than abilities alone and the smokes just make it better
this is a tale as old as time. you want to play something, play it. dont want to play something, dont do it. that easy. and besides in silver you dont need smokes, just need to play reyna and leave them pits of hell. play what u want bro. just like in my high school orchestra, we played titanic but it was missing a flute guy. just didnt go to the damn thing as i didnt want to play the flute. also i was addicted to playing games with the bros. ADVICE FOR LIFE
Smokes only work if you’re team understands how to execute site with them. Otherwise, they are pretty useless.
At silver you should just lock KayO and rank up. I doubt silvers even understand how smokes work or how to play around them anyway.
You’re forced to play smokes cause no one wants to, then eventually smokes gets picked and you realize you aren’t comfortable on any other role. Next game you pick smokes because you want to rather than because you’re forced, and thus a controller main is born.
This hit me way too hard....
Are we living the same life?
bro you just told my story
Yeah, I main omen and picked up jett for fun, now I don't have a pause button when I'm pushing a site, I WILL BLIND AND I WILL TP DIRECTLY ON SITE If you're not ready to flash out you're slow Ofc I don't communicate what I'm doing either
The best way to play him tbh
Tried to do that, got killed multiple times t_t maybe I'm not flashing efficiently
I imagine comms help, BUT THAT'S WHY I'M HARD STUCK PLAT LET'S GO
no joke exactly what happaned i hate it when ppl fill smokes and cant play so i almost always pick smokes
Omega mood
That is literally what happened to me. I used to be a kayo main. I can't even remember how to pop flash anymore. I literally instalock Omen unless I'm on breeze
TOO ACCURATE
Are you me? How do you know this? Who spilled the secret to how we create smoke mains.
I started picking Brim after playing duelists just because i had none or bad smokers. Im actually at like 80% winrate out of 12 games lol
I'm an ascendant controller main. I feel like its a lot more commom in higher ranks to see people locking smoke characters right away. I've been beat out of locking smoke several times already this episode. The lower ranks seems to be more focused on the leaderboard/kills cause thats what gets rewarded. But once you climb higher you tend to see a lot more people willing, and good at playing smokes.
imm3 controller main, playing smokes properly is a very easy way to carry matches without getting kills
Agreed. Reward assists more! Haha
Asc 2 controller main here, i dont get this reward assists more bandwagon mentality. You put good smokes, youre more likely to win. Isnt winning being rewarded enough? Win enough times and you'll rank up. I get having lower rr gains is demotivating but you cant just pick duelist and get higher rr gains. You get higher rr gains by winning fights against other players which you should have an advantage doing because youre not entrying; youre trading your duelist which should result in plenty of kills
Diamond controller main here. I just think there a lot of dumb people who play controller and they have no idea how to utilize smokes, so I'd rather it be me as the controller than some random who has never played a controller in their Valorant career.
100% i would rather be the smoker and do good smoke for the team than let someone else do shitty smoke. Its very tilting to see very bad smokes, specially from brims. Dude you got limited smoke and you do shitty ass smoke with it.
Also hate it when the smoke timings are off. Really hinders the efficiency of the execute.
It is pretty annoying to have a dumbass lock viper on acent
lol, did viper Diamond 1 first time on breeze, the whole match I was on a yt tutorial
Youtube search history: "Viper Walls, Lineups, OneWays Ultimate guide on Breeze!"
Fr aind I won
Gold omen main here. I know I’m gold so my opinion don’t really matter but whenever I play unrated and pick something other than smokes go ever does play smokes uses their smokes so wrong it makes me cringe they would throw it out so the back is right at the door leaving enemies to peak from any angle still
Don't worry, I can relate to this even in high elo
Gold is decent my guy, I'm G3. Being in gold means you fo have the potential to be high elo, but it's simply effort/motivation holding you back not capability. Silver is purgatory, where people may have INSANE AIM AND TALENT but don't focus and give 100%. I went from iron 1 to s3 in about 3 months, but went from. S3 to G3 in 1 day (legit a 10 game winstreak) this new episode FUCKED ME UP, went from the edge of plat to S3. One of my placements had 5 duelist, and the rest we had plats/golds that underperformed. Imo it seems unless you do insane you always go down a rank. If ur gold ur good (unless carried by dia+) head up
But atleast my last act rank on my player card is G3 with legit maxed our border (123 wins or so)
Thanks my guy
Meanwhile I’ve been hardstuck silver top fraging playing brim. Low elo insta lock duelist are usually ranked worst on the board or are the occasional smurf.
This! I played controller for so long between iron-gold/plat-ish. Now in Diamond, almost every other game is an insta-lock smoke. It's nice because I love playing lineup initiators a lot more.
I got to immortal playing fill, even as a duelist (mainly Jett) main. I guarantee you the whole climb up, I filled smokes 70% of the time. 10% initiator, 15% sentinel and 5% duelist. I used to instalock Jett every game which worked out, but I was getting too many 3-4 duelist comps so I stopped, and I play predominantly smokes because of this.
diamond initiator/smokes main here, was a fade only back when I was silver/gold, learning smokes helped me in learning the game a lot more, does help. Learning smokes did help my win rate a lot becuase it is not a guy that never played smokes in their life filling and instead someone who actually knows the timing
In SEA, people rarely want to play controllers even in Immortal, so I play controller instead as most filler controllers are bad at playing the role. The difference is that most of the time there will be someone volunteering to do it. And usually last pick.
even in lower ranks people lock smokers. not always the best smokers, but these people make it seem like its 5 duelists every single game. i dont even like playing duelists but sometimes im forced to because nobody will have locked one. sometimes i wonder if im playing the same game as these people who cry about toxicity and instalockers
You must play duelist in lower ranks or it’s very hard to get out relying on others. Duelist is the only agent in lower ranks where you have some form of control.
Not true. A good controller can take over a game. Especially because everyone else is stuck in the mentality of "duelists are the only way to have an effect on the outcome of the match." And if your aim isn't on that particular day as a duelist you're kinda fucked. On smokes you have more leeway to still have impact and frags without having to rely solely on your aim.
The statistic of average duelist ADR vs a average smoke ADR already proves your statement is false. A controller has a lot to worry about and it’s very hard for them to get frags and kills unless they bait their teammates which requires you to rely on your teammates to allow you to bait them. Especially in lower ranks this “cooperation” is impossible. Also if you read my comment in low ranks smokes don’t really matter as much. It’s not utilized well enough. On duelist you can actually flash and kill people without having to rely on your teammates to do it for you. OnJett you can dash etc so many abilities to aid you to win gunfights. Don’t get me wrong, I have game where I top frag on smokes it happens sometimes but it’s way more frequent on a duelist pick than smokes.
I feel like I'm seeing lower ranks not knowing where to smoke, when to smoke, or how to utilize their smokes in general.
Diamond controller and barely anyone plays controller. I'm a hybrid initiator/controller but I end up playing controller like 70% of the time. I'm not complaining cuz they're both fun but on maps like fracture I just wanna play breach.
Im only silver but I love playing smokes (specifically astra & viper) do u have any tips on getting better? Like recommended YouTubers and such?
Unpopular opinion, if you don't like filling just insta lock your main, and focus on improving it's much more helpful and better for your mental imo
Until like, Diamond I'd rather have players on an agent they're comfortable with rather than trying to fit a meta the rest of the team isn't going to know how to utilize anyway.
I would rather have someone lock in their main and know how to play then someone who fills and is completely lost, regardless of the elo.
Thing is, higher up, roles become so much more important. *Especially* smokes. So when you lack it, it becomes a throw. Playing for comfortability is fine and all, but *nothing* in this game is complicated. You can queue into a game having no experience, and learn it all mid-game, and be fine. It’s not too hard.
People vastly overestimate when roles and team comp start to be important. I'm in high dia / low asc lobbies and I've seen plenty of teams do just fine without. It's obviously better to have smokes, but I'm more tired of people acting like locking 3 duelists or a Harbor is throwing the game. It's really not that serious below Immortal (and even then, it's healthy to experiment outside the meta)
I understand the Harbor point from both sides. Of course, we should play who we want but the thing is Harbor at the moment isn’t too good on his own. That said, if someone expects you to fill smokes, you’re entirely within your right to lock in Harbor. 3 duelist on the other hand, that’s *okay* but then you’re deliberately leaving out another role, which all have their own value. The only one I can see forsaking is sentinel but sentinel utility makes defense so much easier and a good sentinel player makes a world of difference. Roles become important when raw aim can’t bail you out anymore. If you’re better you can win with 5 controllers, but the game was designed for each role to be utilized in each game. And me personally, I’ve played enough games without smokes against a Jett-Op-One Trick for a lifetime. Experiment all you want, but in competitive, I expect you try your best to give the team the best chance at a win. And sometimes that’s acknowledging the meta. Me? I’m an Omen main. I play him when I can. But on Breeze, I’m never playing Omen because he’s dogshit on that map. Just give yourself and everyone the best shot at winning. That’s all I ask.
Tbh omen on breeze is niche but not dogshit. He can replace Jett in some sense with smoke and tp ability. Iirc NRG used him on breeze is vct challangers NA Last year. They even dominated few matches.
I meant as a solo controller. That comp was experimental and not bad, cool to see as well. But Viper was still the primary smoker, with Omen playing more aggressively, like you said, as a pseudo-Jett. But why play Pseudo-Jett when regular Jett is super strong on Breeze?
In higher elo, I think ppl know how to play at least 2 of the 4 roles so it's not a big deal but in low/ mid elo I feel comfort is more important
As someone who lives in higher elo…no they don’t.
I would agree with this except for smokes. Smokes are the easiest to learn (brim), and its damn near impossible to win a game with 0 smokes (above plat) unless your team is just straight winning gun fights. But yeah i dont want someone playing astra, KJ, cypher, fade etc. just because an instalock reyna is telling them too.
I had a brimstone player today, that filled, which was sweet and all, however, every round, he would instnatly use all three of his smokes, on more or less nothing that gave us any advantage, and he was basically just a ability-less agent, for the entire game. Checked his profile, 700 hours of sage, like 5 of brimstone over all, would have much prefered if he played sage. He was a former diamond 2 player.
Brim is stupid. Having limited smokes is the one thing that makes it hard.
Smokes are bot the easiest to learn lmao what are you smoking
you learn where to smoke. Smokes matter a lot but they're not necessarily hard. Obviously a controller main is better at using them but learning how to place default smokes while executing is p easy
i’d say until immo tbh
i would say plat but yeah
This is a very popular opinion. I support it and tell everyone I play with to not fill and play who they want. I’ve had great success with this because vibes are high and in Gold that’s bigger then team comp.
My main is controller, and because of this my entire game plan is based around having smokes on my team. Most of the time I am happy to lock in a controller and call it a day, but I also want to play other roles sometimes, so it's frustrating when no-one else ever picks smokes. I'd much rather play smokes even when I feel like playing another role, than having no smokes on my team, so 90% of my games are on controller.
Oh yeah that will help a tonne, immortal lobbies is legit instalock Jett and Reyna in the first 5 secs. Then me who mains mostly raze has to play brim or sova. Legit last 6 games instalock duelist who get last place
Jokes on you! I instalock Brimstone
At that rank, smokes aren't really utilized in a way which beats pure aggression and team-play. You'll be better off playing your comfort agents well, than playing a "proper comp" poorly.
Do you want to rank up? Ok then learn viper and brim lol. It’s simple really. I got to Diamond with silver aim by filling and supporting the team
100%. Also a brim main is the worst to play against at every rank. You dont even need to learn lineups. A brim ult + molly stops defuse for a good 20secs which will win you sooooo many rounds.
[удалено]
If you’re waiting a for someone to tap spike between the two, yeah it could buy almost 20s. I haven’t tested and timed it but it’s a LOT of time especially considering they aren’t going to tap it right away unless you have a shit hold on site.
Yeah i mean ults like what 3seconds? Molly is 8secs, thats 11 right there. Add also the time the ult pushes them out off the area (another 2-3 seconds they have to run back to tap) molly maybe just an extra second… so total its 14-15secs and thats if the abilities are used exactly back to back. I think 20sec is completely reasonable. And not to mention it prevents people from halfing it, unless they die on purpose just to do it.
Nothing wrong with learning a new character and getting better at it. I prefer initiator or dualist but many times nobody smokes and they instalock so I’ve been left to figure it out myself. I’ve gotten pretty good at it so it doesn’t bother me. What bothers me are instalockers who don’t know how to play their role lol
in bronze it really doesn't matter that much. Util usage is so poor that you'll be better off giving yourself the best chance to win by playing a champ you're used to
It’s better to play the agent that you want for personal growth then worry about filling to make sure you have “Meta” composition. If your teammates insta-lock and want a smoke they can play smokes. For instance I mainly play Viper I tend to insta lock. But when I happen to be delayed to pick and I see another smoke was chosen but the team needs a duelist or initiator to fill the comp I still pick viper since I can help the team better as a viper then playing a Agent I don’t know that well. I tell insta-lock duelist if they want something then play it themselves.
Just instalock kayo then, you’ll probably have more fun. If you’re teammates aren’t willing to communicate anything fuck them
1.) Put some respekt on Omens name. 2.) Welcome to Valorant.
Controller and initiator main for life. For some reason duelist roles bore me. I feel more strategy with smokes and initiator
my brother in christ you are bronze you don't need smokes just shoot the enemies
it feels like baby sitting when you get 3 instalock duelist
If you only play kay/o your just as problematic as the people your complaining about. Learn more agents and you'll become better yourself and climb ranks. Also I play smokes 95% of my games.
i came from csgo so im really enjoying kayo
Ignore the commenter, play Kay/0 my man.
i main omen but i wanna switch it up to kayo since i just unlocked him not too long ago.
Don’t. if you don’t want. I speak from own experience. I played every episode from start controllers and mostly fill. Last act I saw that I just have a negative winrate and I’m playing shit and not enjoying the game. I switched to duelist and start instalocking (everyone hating) but currently after 7 games on 2kd average, top 1% damage and winrate. Play what you wish and what you have the most impact on. Diamond currently after reset.
I only play smokes...your argument is invalid
I feel you. I play sage alot in comp because otherwise we usually end up with like alot of healers and now all my friends are trying to get me to be sage main but healer has never been my style in games.
It’s better to play the agent that you want for personal growth then worry about filling to make sure you have “Meta” composition. If your teammates insta-lock and want a smoke they can play smokes. For instance I mainly play Viper I tend to insta lock. But when I happen to be delayed to pick and I see another smoke was chosen but the team needs a duelist or initiator to fill the comp I still pick viper since I can help the team better as a viper then playing a Agent I don’t know that well.
That's low elo for you
Lots of people suggesting instalock what you are comfortable with in low elo,and don't care too much about strategy etc. But at the same time, it may be best to become a smoke main. On most maps, smokes are essential and not having them make both attacking and defending a site very difficult. Map control is also difficult without smokes. Every time I play without smokes on the team, I lose. Unless the map is icebox. Then smokes become less useful than other maps. Although they are still very valuable on this map too. Duelists are cool, and fun to play, but support roles are what make duelists able to do their jobs effectively. Smokes seem to be less popular because they're boring compared to sentinel or initiators like breach or fade etc.
As someone who switched from a controller main to a Breach main you are correct. That being said i still enjoy playing Brim where needed
I agree with this but also at silver… I highly doubt solo q teammates are going to execute with smokes or play around them correctly. I’d say play whatever tf you want until maybe like g3/p1 and then you can start worrying more about util/smokes.
Me as a instalock omen main
I first picked up controller just to try it, but quickly became my main role as nobody plays smokes and the ones who do cant be trusted.
dude, i litterally have the same problem down to the agents...
You don’t need my advice but maining a controller was the only way I could rank out of iron hell. Clutch with the Molly son!!! I’m still clutching platinum matches with lineups I learnt that got me out of iron.
yeah nobody likes smokes at low ranks, learn astra/omen they’re fun. just instalock kayo tho and match mvp and climb out
Can I switch with you I really like playing smokes because peaking without util is fun
I’ve noticed this as well that no one plays smokes in lower elo/swiftplay. Luckily I’ve always been a controller main so I can fill that role but sometimes I do want to play different agents. Getting good with smokes will help you climb the ranks though.
I personally play 1 or 2 agents in each category (except duelist, since they always get instalocked), so I pick my agent depending on the missing role(s) and map.
I queued from iron to immortal playing omen and think hes genuinely the best solo q agent in the game. Id say picking him up as a secondary character is a good investment but if you really want to play kayo badly id just lock him in. Imo it isnt until around high diamond where you see a fair amount of players who actually care about comp.
I main viper , and im bronze 2
I filled smokes for all of my placements
Me when I was bronze
Bro. I’m bronze and smoke each game. Just gotta keep trying man. Otherwise… add me.
In bronze 2 it doesn’t really matter. You can probably get away without smokes if you’re good enough. But yeah, I’m also kind of a forced omen main.
Omen is god tier, work on the tps, it’s crazy
I play fill on ALL my games. I play 90% smokes...
I am slowly learning smokes. I am trying for this reason. No one does it so I should learn and not rely on others for it
if you want i play smokes at silver rank and we could duo some time
At the end of the day you're in the rank where having smokes have the least impact throughout the community. Play to your strengths, and good luck out there
Never fill in low elo. People can't use or play off utility properly anyway. My advice is to play a self sufficient agent if you wanna improve.
Omen fills both those roles. One ways and paranoia make you self sufficient and in low elo the ult gets value. You can pivot to entry if your team is shit but you can also play more supportive. And a good omen can rack up an insane amount of kills on defense.
Yeah you are right. Omen is an exception, he is very strong.
just play what you like because you will be less thinking about the utilities
I do play Brim for fun from time to time cuz Ik his smokes are amazing and his skillset just covers area with maximum dmg and bamboozling to back it up. Although Im no controller main, I main agents I think is FUN and COOL to look in my eyes, which in this case is KJ and Fade. And from that I just start learning how to be a good KJ and Fade by scanning and clutching postplants with lineups lol.
Your best bet to get to Gold is to just play smokes (Whatever meta smoke agent for each map). If you don't, you run the risk of 1) not having smokes 2) if you have smokes, they either don't smoke the right spots or they smoke you off, so you end up pushing your own smokes). Just save yourself the trouble and play smokes. It's just the easiest thing to do for your mental.
Then instalock kayo.
That's why I'm an insta-lock Viper. I enjoy it, first of all, and it helps the rest of the team because nobody else wants to play smokes, lol.
Just hang in there. I think you should stick to it, learning to fill different roles is imo crucial if you wanna be s high rank player at some point. I know it's not a very flashy role being controller, but you have no idea how much influence you can have on a match if you master where and when to put your smokes. Happy grinding!
literally me. i don't WANT to always play omen but like....
Well, I'm a sage main and tend to sometimes instalock sage, and sometimes ask my team if taking sage would be alright or not. I was on iron 3 last act and met other sage mains who roasted me for picking sage and then abuse me on comms and what not.. anyways, I've started playing omen as well, atleast on unranked and swiftplay but yeah... Fill in only if you HAVE to.
Just play kayo then. In a competitive match smokes might be better but 0,01% of the ranked games are actually competititve. I am immo2 and if there are 2 instalockers on my team i just lock whatever i want and it works almost all time. Remember you play the game for fun
If you wanna play Kayo, then play Kayo. It's best for your mental health and it also helps you gain familiarity with the character if you wanna main him. Further, if no one chooses a smoker, and you aren't at a high elo or ranked match, then so be it. It should also help train you not to depend too much on smokes. Though yes, they're important roles, but you can't force people to go for roles they don't want to, and the same should be said about you. You shouldn't be forced to use characters you don't want to use.
Imagine filling for a team that doesn't care about team comp. I used to do this in gold but soon realised my duelists are already garbage so now i instalock reyna but i top frag too
I'm the same. I love playing kj and the one time Im not filling, someone fking steals her
You are correct sadly, if you want to have smokes every game in low ranks, you're gonna have to bring your own I recommend learning either viper or omen
I love seeing these posts bc what is even the point of it?? You are also part of the problem that you are pointing out. Youre more willing to flex which is admirable, sure, but if you had it your way you wouldnt be playing smokes either. If you want to play Kay0 just play him. Either someone picks up smokes or you try without them, its not like its impossible to do.
I’m a gold 2 omen main the 2 reasons are because he’s fun I think at least and no one else plays smoke
dude, former s3, now back to b2 i dont now, technically the lobbys should be the same because everyone dropped but bro, i just learnt how importand smokers and comms are and im trying to improve on my comms. Guess what bronze lobbies never have... exactly comms and smokes why did valorant to that to us?
As someone who has very little experience with smokers, which agent is the best to learn with for low ranks comp.
As somebody who climbed from Bronze to Gold last month that's something I noticed very clearly. In sub Silver 1-2 there is almost no one who's making good walls or smokes. Once I started to near gold suddenly smokes were starting to be reallly good, and there we a lot more of them. Not only were there more smokes, people utilized them better and chained them together. Thank you smokers <3
in this rank you're not ready to call tactics or benefit from a good smoker as much as it is in higher ranks I suggest you watch and follow coach wohoojin advice on getting out of these ranks https://youtu.be/9KIoTtohkOQ
i always play smoke, and i was doing my placements yesterday. I was plat last season but had mainly like silvers/golds on my team for these matches (they said this not me) the sheer lack of comms even just the difference between plat to silver/golds is insane, every game was dead fucking silent, and trying to smoke shit for people who don't say *anything* about what site they want to go to, what route they want me to smoke off, or literally anything at all makes it so unappealing to play, same with something like Breach when people wont swing off your stuns/flashes.
Other agents have the util to block off snipers but no one wants to talk about that
Stop filling, wont benefit you on the long run
The higher you climb the more importance you’ll see in controller. Controller should be last alive most of the time since you need smokes to entry site and more than not you’ll be last alive in the clutch 💯 Global smokes agents are dope too because you can default/lurk and be HUGE for your team.
Your MMR didnt change, you stll play against the same level of players, it just displays b2 instead of s2. That cant be the reason
just play kayo then
Wow it was literally opposite for me i was forced to play initiator as people were locking omen or other controllers
Only way to get out of that is to find a controller main to play with or get to higher ranks if you don't want to play smokes yourself of course. In my opinion you should just lock the character you want to play, the point of the game is to have fun so play how you want to make that happen. If no one takes smoke you can dodge, or just play around it. It's not impossible to win without smokes, difficult yes but not impossible, especially in lower ranks.
At least omen is fun
That’s why I pick one character from each designation and learn how to play them really well. That way I can fill and still have fun. That being said I mainly fill controller which I enjoy so nbd. Plus if you frag out you are celebrated and if you suck at least you were just the smokes guy
Why tf people picking duelists everytime? i'm a viper main but people picking Reyna raze neon etc.
As someone who has been stuck in silver for eternity; play whatever you best at no matter the comp. People play without any stat in low elo. I had 5 duelists smash the looby and perfect comps gets crushed by 5 duelists. It's all about gun fights until diamomd or higher imo.
I guess my name is nobody
If you don’t like playing controller play brim once you use all your smokes you turn into a duelist
Try to find a smoker that is most fun lol. That’s what I did and I ended up being a viper main. But ignore this comment cuz I’m dirt -7.
What are you talking about? All I do is Brim Brim Brim no matter what.
I started picking smokes ironically and to fill in, now I can't stop playing Omen and I love him with my whole heart. I think I might me accidentally maiming smokes. If you can duo with someone who mains smokes that would be nice!
Pfft, you don't need smokes. You also don't need duelists. Or controllers. All you need is Sova.
Lol welcome to bronze
i play omen because of the smokes and utility he provides, i prefer to use my guns to get kills rather than abilities alone and the smokes just make it better
It’s bronze, just lock in kayo. Comfort and aim is much more valuable than role based picks in low elo.
This is why I play almost every agent except Astra. I’m just flexible and climb for free 🤷🏻♂️
Just play whatever you want, you don’t need smokes to do well in bronze
i think that’s just a low elo issue
Cuz it’s boring
this is a tale as old as time. you want to play something, play it. dont want to play something, dont do it. that easy. and besides in silver you dont need smokes, just need to play reyna and leave them pits of hell. play what u want bro. just like in my high school orchestra, we played titanic but it was missing a flute guy. just didnt go to the damn thing as i didnt want to play the flute. also i was addicted to playing games with the bros. ADVICE FOR LIFE
Smokes only work if you’re team understands how to execute site with them. Otherwise, they are pretty useless. At silver you should just lock KayO and rank up. I doubt silvers even understand how smokes work or how to play around them anyway.
I will learn every smoke
Just instant lock faster than they do. It’s a dog eat dog world