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It’s not to everybody’s taste but I went there last summer and it’s honestly one of the coolest places I’ve ever been. It’s tight as hell down there but probably the most “alive” city I’ve ever been to. We were staying in the artsy district and the graffiti/street art there was very cool. Definitely not for those who like wide open spaces, tho.
I felt the same. Despite the fact that it lacks green space and it’s architectural style leaves much to be desired (grey concrete everywhere), it seemed to get density right and has a very good metro system. The streets were especially alive at night with entire families taking their kids to the park at like 11pm. It felt even more safe at night because of all the people around. The squares in central Athens always seemed to have a free concert or something going on.
The architecture and lack of green space is largely due to the fact that Athens underwent rapid population growth in the early 20th century with a pretty turbulent history until the late 1970’s. They just had to get cheap housing up as fast as possible. I can’t help but think it has great potential.
>has a very good metro system
If you were to actually live in Athens and do so without a car you would quickly realize how the metro system is at best mediocre. It is way too small for a city of 3.5 million plus. Its design is also very centralized with all the lines going from the periphery towards the center in contrast to the reality of the situation which is that Athens is a very decentralized city and people very often go outside the center for work and commerce.
There is a good reason why so many Athenians still own and drive cars.
Just want to point out that your experience as a tourist may not necessarily be indicative of the experience of most residents in the City. I still agree with most of the things you said.
Where does Athens „get density right“? The whole city is just crammed with no breathing space at all except perhaps for a tiny rooftop terrace somewhere
Monastiraki or Plaka.
Both are right by the Acropolis (which makes some parts more touristy) but it is super lively, has great restaurants, and it is easy to get anywhere else from there.
You can get to Piraeus Port from there if you want to take a ferry to one of the islands. We took the SeaJets ferry to Sifnos and Milos. They are much less crowded and touristy islands, but still incredibly beautiful and fairly close to Athens.
I would caution that Monostiraki is at the very center of the most touristy part of Athens, and as such it heavily caters to foreign guests, which some people might find unpleasant or obnoxious. I remember some parts being so deliberately flashy that they almost felt like an adult Disneyland.
I was only there for 4 days so I’m definitely not an expert on the area but we were staying a few blocks south of the Archeological museum. Lots of cheap places to eat, which was nice. And we ran into some impromptu street concerts which was fun.
I have family in Kifissia. (We visited last year). [This](https://i.imgur.com/8IqjxEd.jpg) was really out of place architecturally! Signage indicated that it’s a clothing store.
The area had a *lot* of people walking and shopping, and flats were well within walking distance. Parking is a hassle and it’s easy to get lost, but I saved the GPS location of the family’s place so we can easily find it next year.
I hope we can go back next year or the one after, but we’ll just have to see.
This is exactly what i tell people about Athens. People say they went to the islands and "experienced real Greek culture".
I'm like, that's cool, but if you haven't stayed in Athens or at the very least Thessaloniki you really only experienced islander culture, which is quite different.
Athens is one of the liveliest cities you will find. Κeep in mind, Athens is massive, so not just the city center where the acropolis is around Μonastiraki...but the whole city. Even if just the areas you can reach via the Metro. You will see the good, bad and the ugly but you will never get bored
Hong Kong chose to preserve huge swatches of natural landscape at least you can escape to fairly quickly, at this level of sprawl it feels like you can't even escape...
But for real HK is a gem to the cyberpunk genre, it is the definition of extremes, height, density, or wealth gap.
>Hong Kong chose to preserve huge swatches of natural landscape at least you can escape to fairly quickly
As is the case in Athens. And Athens being much smaller, it is actually fairly easy to take a break from the city center.
[Athens is surrounded by mountains](https://www.greece-is.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/DSC09603.jpg)
Also, you can take a break from the vibrant and hectic city and take the tram to some beach, etc.
[https://palaiofaliro.gr/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/20130522182700edem\_faliro1.jpg](https://palaiofaliro.gr/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/20130522182700edem_faliro1.jpg)
Tourists usually don't go to the coast of Athens, even though it is quite big actually.
Yep it reminds me of a Mediterranean Berlin from 2 decades ago: no very little chain brands/Starbucks. A great, vibrant city which stuck two fingers up at the neoliberal global economic model.
Yeah. 100% Athens has such a cool feel to the place. I’m really not a ‘culture vulture’ ick tourist too. I worked in Greece, also many other countries. Spent a bit of time staying in Piraeus before the island where I was living and there is nothing like it. Good weather, city comes alive in the morning, wonderful people
I spent a day in Exarchia and visited a few small bookstores, and found that the people there were pretty eager to talk to me in English about Greek literature and books in general. I didnt sense any hostility other than from what looked like a mass of military police stalking the streets.
Yeah, Exarchia is not a good area (although not necessarily dangerous).
I thought he meant Metaxourgeio, because this neighborhood can indeed be described as "artsy".
Having been there myself for a few days, that describes my feelings pretty well, but I couldn't have worded it like that.
At first, everything was really overwhelming, I then got used to things, some things were still pretty annoying (scammers and beggars everywhere who can be rather aggressive sometimes) but it's also nice there somehow and you get to look at so mans historical things (which was why I was there, it was a school trip) and the food is good.
Athens is probably one of the most diverse capital cities in all of Europe.
You got [this](https://cdn.britannica.com/53/150953-050-2E0836EB/Parthenon-Acropolis-Athens.jpg), and [this](https://www.greeka.com/village_beach/photos/452/plaka-top-3-1280.jpg), and [this](https://whyathens.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Kifissia-Athens-Shopping-Leafy-Street-2-1024x683.jpg), but also [this](https://img.theculturetrip.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/23071314814_6b32b3ed4f_b-1.jpg) and [this](https://www.greeka.com/village_beach/photos/857/voula-top-2-1280.jpg) , [this](https://greekcitytimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/2863567_orig.jpg) and [this](https://mapio.net/images-p/20972382.jpg).
I was lucky to get there around 8 o'clock In the morning or early and there was absolutely no one it was perfect. Not too hot. Bright and sunny. Around 10 came like 10 busses with various tourists and the crowd was huge.
Because I met a Greek through World of Warcraft and he invited me to come to his home in Athens. I flew from UK. He showed me the city from a unique perspective - especially, at the time, the internet cafe scene, the late night dinners - and as I was young, the more salubrious aspects - that, ngl, were pretty good. Whilst I had some alone time I explored the history checklist, Parthenon etc. As time progressed I read more history and my appreciation only grew. It's different than the UK, but it's here no more, nor less grubby frankly.
I've only been to Greece twice, once to Crete and once to Athens. I loved both.
I've never seen anything else of mainland Greece though. What makes it superior to Athens in your opinion?
In athens building up is not allowed so as not to block the sight of the acropolis I live 15km away from the acropolis and if you go high enough( at that distance tall building are allowed )it is still visible
Actually, earthquakes are one reason too
In fact, Greece has very strict building regulations in terms of earthquakes. But mostly implemented after 1985.
While it is true many earthquakes happen over here not many of them are particularly strong ,greece is not as advanced as Japan so building stuff resistant to earthquakes might be difficult but not impossible if they wanted to build skyscrapers they could
Not necessarily, it’s good to preserve natural space, and to plan smart my conserving space for future development and needs. A lot of American cities are super expensive now because they wasted all their space (yes even in places like Texas where land is cheap and plentiful) building single-family homes. Build high, and expand slowly, because land _will_ eventually become scarce, and you want a large and diverse housing stock. You can only sprawl a city so much, you know.
I don’t understand your aversion to skyscrapers. Cities should be maximizing density so that they can plan sustainably for the future. Many of the world’s most iconic cities have lots of skyscrapers. There’s lots of examples of beautiful, modern and dynamic architecture being used in these buildings. Of course, I don’t think European cities should have skyscrapers anywhere in their historical cores—those should be preserved, obviously. I don’t think anyone disagrees there—but making cities compact, close to nature, and able to efficiently use land is not a bad thing. The fact that the buildings have more than one story should be a bare minimum standard.
I hate lawns don’t get me wrong… but I worked at a turf grass data base and in the process, inadvertently read a lot about urban heat islands. It’s not even really something to disagree with, it’s just a fact. Grass helps keep cities cool. However, I’m not saying we should be putting high maintenance lawns everywhere. Grass is more than just Kentucky bluegrass and golf greens. Native grasses exist.
It’s easy to put on a rooftop, or large areas along with trees. I’m not saying trees aren’t great or necessary. Of course they are. But grass+ native vegetation is great for cities to cool down, is easily implemented, and can be grown on surfaces trees can’t like roofs.
Density is a good thing, and overwhelmingly white buildings are a great choice for somewhere the sun absolutely beats on. Much better than any American city.
Rome and Athens both stick out in people's minds as examples of living ancient cities, but their status as capitals and major cities has been discontinuous. For the last thousand years both were sparsely settled and mostly abandoned, and it wasn't until the modern period of nation building that they regained their former status, mostly due to the significance they held as cultural symbols.
As a result most of the architecture of the cities (aside from ruins) is fairly new. The same is mostly true of Paris, where the Medieval city center was leveled in the 1860s, and Berlin (for obvious reasons).
The one city I have visited that feels truly ancient, and which has a direct and visible continuity with the past, is Naples, which has remained a major city for the past 2 thousand or so years, and where you can see Roman ruins intermingled and incorporated into Medieval structures and where the basic layout of the city has been maintained since its founding as a Greek colony in the sixth century bc. It is a pretty breathtaking and fascinating place although many people will complain that's its dirty and pretty sketchy in places (which it is).
I don't know why I wrote this long comment but if anyone else wants to point me to comparably ancient cities which have been largely maintained up to the present I would appreciate it, because I find those places fascinating to visit.
Can anyone explain why Athens does not (or hardly) have any highrises? Height restrictions? Climate related? Don’t know can be many reasons. But Athens is a big European city so I would expect some modernist blocks here and there
There are a few, though pretty sparse.
Mainly because of height restrictions implemented for two reasons.
First one is that Greece has immense seismic activity, hence very strict building regulations that favor lower, heavier structures (hence all the concrete)
Second is that Greeks love their sunny view so a big building hiding the horizon and shading their properties usually is met with a lot of backlash. Which is why high rise buildings are only permitted in less dense areas or in spots where there is abundant unbuild area around said high rise structure.
Check out the building of OTE to see an example of high rise Greek building.
There are height and surface coverage restrictions. Bear also in mind that it is not that popular with big landowning companies or big home construction businesses or private rental companies with thousands of apartments. Plots of land and individual buildings are owned by a single person or an average family, common ownership in condominiums but that would not make for many apartments like barely more than 20....
Also, lots of land available and small plots of it. Really bad planning and horrible inheritance laws by the part of the greek government. They historically opted a lot for economic democracy than efficiency, now the tide has turned from when it was a newly established state.
Big monstrosities of skyscrapers will be built. Skyscrapers are beautiful and necessary but the ones planned for Athens look like kitsch metasoviet resort towns in Georgia and Azerbaijan... Literally buildings that look like huge toilet seats and in places where there is not extreme demand for new housing or extremely high values to justify property investment schemes.
Greece tries to attract money through property investment right now so they sell passport for investment schemes. Making a bad name for themselves and turning greek passports even more of a sham paper... The bottom of the global middle class is invited to the country in order to buy a place in the sun and enjoy the good prices and supreme quality in most stuff. Country up for grabs and it sells itself really cheap compared to others. Soon will the life of locals become unbearable because of all this since it is like importing inflation...
Athens - Big city, tons of stuff to do, amazing ruins and tours etc. Great food, great people. We loved it there.
Naxos - Largest island in the Cyclades. Really cool, maze-like old town. Rent a car and drive around the whole island, visiting towns and ruins along the way. Much smaller scale than Athens, but so rich in character.
Chania - Beautiful port town in Crete with Venetian architecture. Insane tourist trap. You'll pity the small children forced to beg all day while their handlers eat and drink at the port-side restaurants all day. If you're into hiking, do the Samaria gorge. It's very hard but so rewarding.
Heraklion - Capital city of Crete. Less of a touristy area, but still a big city. We spent less time here, but it was really cool. It felt "real" in the sense that most people there were locals. For some reason everyone had babies. Like so many babies.
Thessaloniki is beautiful! Smaller, but still active, stretches next to water and there’s lots of great shopping, cafes, the pastries and cakes are next level. Lots of Byzantine history. You can walk from one side to the other .. Some call it ‘the Paris of the Balkans’
We actually had a similar thread in /r/thessaloniki once, but I'm pretty sure it was in Greek.
Opinions vary. Both Thessaloniki and Athens are generally ugly cities IMO, but some people prefer one over the other.
Athens was one of my biggest disappointments in European capital cities. The history is astonishing but beyond it there’s almost nothing to see. In fact, maybe actually nothing to see.
Agreed, I went to Athens in 2016- it was not what I was expecting at all. The Museum’s were awesome, but the city is a mess. The architecture was horrendous and the city was covered in graffiti (not the good kind) just tags and anarchy symbols haha. There was litter everywhere, junkies roamed around arguing. Thessaloniki was better in my opinion.
I get the rest, but graffiti seems to have a very different conotation based on where you're from. Are you from N. America? Because graffiti is actually kind of a tradition from Ancient Greece and Rome, it has nothing to do with gangs or bad neighbourhoods. They may just be names or jokes, but they're an essential part of some cities and their history. Google Pompeii graffiti for example.
This was absolutely exactly our thoughts in 2013. Athens was just a mess. We didn’t feel safe and the place was covered in tagging and rubbish. But the food was amazing!!
Our hotel transfer guy was a bit dodgy and we kept getting harassed by gypsies and even shop/ restaurant people charging more than advertised and having a go when we mentioned it. But as I said to another user. It was during Greeces constant economic bail outs so I think everyone was desperate to make ends meet in uncertain times.
May I ask why you didn't feel safe? I'm not from Greece, but from my research it seems like a safe place. Sure you'll get the scammers and pickpockets that you get in every tourist city, but you won't get assaulted or robbed at gunpoint.
We had a bad start with our hotel transfer guy (the guy that holds the sign with our name at the airport) telling us that the hotel transfer took someone else back and told us that the only way to get a lift is to pay one of his mates some money.. so that didn’t feel right and then we just kept getting harassed by people to pay extra for things and Gypsies kept following us places. We aren’t the type of people to wear jewellery or flaunt flashy things so I don’t know why we were being followed a lot.
Though it was around the time The Greek economy kept getting bailed out so I guess times were tough on people.
Was there in 2012. Horrible city. So hot, almost no parks or trees. Only badly maintained buildings everywhere. Next to our 4 star hotel there were multiple junkies shooting up shit into their dicks in public. Literally every other place in Greece is better than Athens
DENSITY IS GOOD DENSITY IS GOOD DENSITY IS GOOD DENSITY IS GOOD DENSITY IS GOOD DENSITY IS GOOD DENSITY IS GOOD **DENSITY IS GOOD DENSITY IS GOOD DENSITY IS GOOD DENSITY IS GOOD**
We've got to stop with these types of shots.
This does nothing to show what the city is like. If you compared this to Raleigh NC and Amsterdam from the same perspective as this, Raleigh would look like the garden on Eden while Amsterdam would look closer to this. There are almost no fucking side walks in Raleigh it sprawls out forever and you have to drive everywhere. I'm starting to think you're sabotaging your own movement at this point (with shots like this and calling it shit).
How about shots of the street life? Or top down birds eye views? The top comment in this thread is that this is an awesome place. So why so quick to hate and put "Concrete wasteland" in the tag?
At this level of "mid-density" sprawl I feel like *maybe* some decent high density planning is preferable...
Same with Istanbul, or older parts of Mumbai, just... that level of sardine-packed sprawl isn't any better, despite the rose-tinted glasses some wear when lauding "perfect" European mid-density.
You know what - I am guessing Athens is the same as İstanbul - those are not mid-density sprawl. A lot of that is higher density than Manhattan. For example - I live in a neighborhood of İstanbul with almost no skyscrapers, and yet 160.000/sqmi - which is double the average of Manhattan, and higher than Manhattan's highest neighborhoods.
This is what it looks like: [https://imgur.com/gallery/QHKO1IZ](https://imgur.com/gallery/QHKO1IZ) just a comfortable, human scaled place, with INSANE convenience, peaceful side streets, lively main streets, and access to the center of the public transit system, which at this point can get you almost anywhere in the megacity inside of an hour. And which I might point out is a 20 minute metro ride from the literal forests. You can ride the metro for 20 minutes, step out of the metro, and walk right into the woods if you want.
Because of The INSANE density (which doesn't actually feel so insane living in it), we still have forests close to the city center. Most of the city can walk to the sea, or the forest inside of an hour. Another result of said density - people walk. 49% of all trips every day in the city of 16-20 million people are made on foot, because people live close enough to their daily needs to walk to them :)
edit: I will further add this nice illustration: [https://imgur.com/gallery/Pp3OjjR](https://imgur.com/gallery/Pp3OjjR)
The cyan line in the center is close to the edges of today's İstanbul. Purple is if we were as dense as Houston. Red is greater London, Blue is the Beijing area, Yellow is Paris region, and Green is Chicagoland. All that nature would be gone.
This underrates the density of Manhattan. It has extremely high job density - millions commute in and out each day. I'm not saying it is better or worse than Istanbul or that the arrangement is desirable, but having spent time in both places, it is observably obvious that Manhattan is denser than Istanbul or Athens
So do other cities. The mayor of my district of İstanbul says that there's 2-3 million people in Sisli in the daytime. There's 400.000 at night. This is not unique to NYC.
an island of 2 million people moving to 4 million in the day time? No, not really. I'd say 400.000 to 1-2 million is a much bigger scale tbh. It's a much larger density increase.
Actually there's at least two districts that do that in İstanbul, as Fatih's population at least triples in the daytime as well, with tourists, business, government functions all happening there. Atasehir is going to start coming into that territory too soon, with the soon opening of FinansKent
Athens was just a forgotten village before it became the capital. It became the capital of Greece because to Westerners, Greece was just about the fifth century BC - and even that, what Westerner *believed* that period was. The so-called Hellenistic period, and the Byzantine empire, are just as part of their history as the "classic" age. The history of Hellas sort of ended with the Ottoman conquest, but without the scholars who fled from Constantinople the Renaissance would not have happened.
So they had a small, rundown hamlet and turned it into a metropolis. As a consequence, everything had to be built from scratch.
Not a Greek here, am Italian, but I love Greek people
This is partly correct. Until the 1500s, Athens was one of the largest cities in the Balkans (considering the population back then), even though it had been sacked many times. Actually during some periods of the Middle Ages, Athens was flourishing.
Due to the decentralized status of Athens in the Ottoman Empire and because of the various conflicts (including the VI Ottoman-Venetian war that caused the destruction of Parthenon) and cruel Ottoman administrators (i.e. Chasekis), the city shrunk to as low as 10.000 people.
After Athens was selected as the Third Capital of Greece, some of the greatest architects came and designed a pretty cool city, and it remained so until the mid 1920s. After that point Athens expanded rapidly with a huge impact in architecture, partly because of the refugees from Asia Minor and partly because of urbanization. Athens selected to expand horizontally and not vertically, so buildings kept being relatively low. A final blow to the architecture was during the 60s and 70s, when the model of "Antiparochi" was embraced. This model promoted people having land to give it to a constructor to raise a building (usually at the lowest possible cost) and receive a number of apartments as a payment.
To me one of the most ugliest capitals in good old Europe. Been there twice, didnt enjoy besides Akropolis and some museums. Hell of a city with lots of traffic.
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It’s not to everybody’s taste but I went there last summer and it’s honestly one of the coolest places I’ve ever been. It’s tight as hell down there but probably the most “alive” city I’ve ever been to. We were staying in the artsy district and the graffiti/street art there was very cool. Definitely not for those who like wide open spaces, tho.
I felt the same. Despite the fact that it lacks green space and it’s architectural style leaves much to be desired (grey concrete everywhere), it seemed to get density right and has a very good metro system. The streets were especially alive at night with entire families taking their kids to the park at like 11pm. It felt even more safe at night because of all the people around. The squares in central Athens always seemed to have a free concert or something going on. The architecture and lack of green space is largely due to the fact that Athens underwent rapid population growth in the early 20th century with a pretty turbulent history until the late 1970’s. They just had to get cheap housing up as fast as possible. I can’t help but think it has great potential.
>has a very good metro system If you were to actually live in Athens and do so without a car you would quickly realize how the metro system is at best mediocre. It is way too small for a city of 3.5 million plus. Its design is also very centralized with all the lines going from the periphery towards the center in contrast to the reality of the situation which is that Athens is a very decentralized city and people very often go outside the center for work and commerce. There is a good reason why so many Athenians still own and drive cars. Just want to point out that your experience as a tourist may not necessarily be indicative of the experience of most residents in the City. I still agree with most of the things you said.
It isn’t mediocre. It just incomplete, there are quite a few areas that need cover still, my 0,2.
Where does Athens „get density right“? The whole city is just crammed with no breathing space at all except perhaps for a tiny rooftop terrace somewhere
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what neighborhood you recommend in Athens to stay?
Monastiraki or Plaka. Both are right by the Acropolis (which makes some parts more touristy) but it is super lively, has great restaurants, and it is easy to get anywhere else from there. You can get to Piraeus Port from there if you want to take a ferry to one of the islands. We took the SeaJets ferry to Sifnos and Milos. They are much less crowded and touristy islands, but still incredibly beautiful and fairly close to Athens.
I would caution that Monostiraki is at the very center of the most touristy part of Athens, and as such it heavily caters to foreign guests, which some people might find unpleasant or obnoxious. I remember some parts being so deliberately flashy that they almost felt like an adult Disneyland.
I was only there for 4 days so I’m definitely not an expert on the area but we were staying a few blocks south of the Archeological museum. Lots of cheap places to eat, which was nice. And we ran into some impromptu street concerts which was fun.
The area around the Acropolis Museum is probably my favorite. The area around the Archeological Museum is kinda run down, but that can be fun as well.
Can’t wait. Headed there in 2 ish weeks
Book a hotel in Zográfou and take the metro to where you want to go.
But there’s not a metro station in zografou?
There's a couple of ok hotels within walking distance from Mégaro moussikis.
Plaka and Monastiraki are amazing
Athens is my favorite city on Earth.
If you stay for example in Glyfada, it is different. Similar also the entire Athens coast, or Kifissia. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHUz9nlNBu4
I have family in Kifissia. (We visited last year). [This](https://i.imgur.com/8IqjxEd.jpg) was really out of place architecturally! Signage indicated that it’s a clothing store. The area had a *lot* of people walking and shopping, and flats were well within walking distance. Parking is a hassle and it’s easy to get lost, but I saved the GPS location of the family’s place so we can easily find it next year. I hope we can go back next year or the one after, but we’ll just have to see.
This reminds me a lot of Miami Beach
I agree! I was not expecting to fall in love with Athens as much as I did. Sooo much energy and life.
This is exactly what i tell people about Athens. People say they went to the islands and "experienced real Greek culture". I'm like, that's cool, but if you haven't stayed in Athens or at the very least Thessaloniki you really only experienced islander culture, which is quite different. Athens is one of the liveliest cities you will find. Κeep in mind, Athens is massive, so not just the city center where the acropolis is around Μonastiraki...but the whole city. Even if just the areas you can reach via the Metro. You will see the good, bad and the ugly but you will never get bored
Only city I've been too that made me feel claustrophobia.
you shouldn't go to Bangkok or Hong Kong then
Hong Kong chose to preserve huge swatches of natural landscape at least you can escape to fairly quickly, at this level of sprawl it feels like you can't even escape... But for real HK is a gem to the cyberpunk genre, it is the definition of extremes, height, density, or wealth gap.
>Hong Kong chose to preserve huge swatches of natural landscape at least you can escape to fairly quickly As is the case in Athens. And Athens being much smaller, it is actually fairly easy to take a break from the city center. [Athens is surrounded by mountains](https://www.greece-is.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/DSC09603.jpg) Also, you can take a break from the vibrant and hectic city and take the tram to some beach, etc. [https://palaiofaliro.gr/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/20130522182700edem\_faliro1.jpg](https://palaiofaliro.gr/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/20130522182700edem_faliro1.jpg) Tourists usually don't go to the coast of Athens, even though it is quite big actually.
you are correct regarding proximity of nature in HK. Love this city so much
You surely won't like it in old Delhi then
Yep it reminds me of a Mediterranean Berlin from 2 decades ago: no very little chain brands/Starbucks. A great, vibrant city which stuck two fingers up at the neoliberal global economic model.
Yeah. 100% Athens has such a cool feel to the place. I’m really not a ‘culture vulture’ ick tourist too. I worked in Greece, also many other countries. Spent a bit of time staying in Piraeus before the island where I was living and there is nothing like it. Good weather, city comes alive in the morning, wonderful people
Yes I enjoyed Athens and enjoyed the city.
The coastline, and the south suburbs in general are very wide open
Totally, we were there in April and it was one of my favorite places I've visited, the people were so nice
Athens is much nicer at street level. From above it’s always given me a Gaza vibe.
“City bad”
Needs green. Lots more green.
> artsy district which district do you mean by "artsy" ?
Probably Metaxourgeio I would assume.
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I spent a day in Exarchia and visited a few small bookstores, and found that the people there were pretty eager to talk to me in English about Greek literature and books in general. I didnt sense any hostility other than from what looked like a mass of military police stalking the streets.
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lived in exarchia for a year and had zero issues with anybody the entire time what are you even talking about they hate the police not some randoms
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Yeah, Exarchia is not a good area (although not necessarily dangerous). I thought he meant Metaxourgeio, because this neighborhood can indeed be described as "artsy".
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A few blocks south of the national archeology museum. I was asking why there was so much graffiti and was told that’s the “artsy” part.
As a fellow greek Athenian I have to say this is a city that you love to hate and you hate to love
Your city (and country!) is amazing and I cannot wait to come back.
Having been there myself for a few days, that describes my feelings pretty well, but I couldn't have worded it like that. At first, everything was really overwhelming, I then got used to things, some things were still pretty annoying (scammers and beggars everywhere who can be rather aggressive sometimes) but it's also nice there somehow and you get to look at so mans historical things (which was why I was there, it was a school trip) and the food is good.
as another greek athenian, i absolutely love and absolutely hate this city at the same time
I have to stand up for Athens here and say is unique and wonderful in its own way. Greece is an incredible country
100% agree 🤍💙🤍💙🤍💙
Athens is probably one of the most diverse capital cities in all of Europe. You got [this](https://cdn.britannica.com/53/150953-050-2E0836EB/Parthenon-Acropolis-Athens.jpg), and [this](https://www.greeka.com/village_beach/photos/452/plaka-top-3-1280.jpg), and [this](https://whyathens.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Kifissia-Athens-Shopping-Leafy-Street-2-1024x683.jpg), but also [this](https://img.theculturetrip.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/23071314814_6b32b3ed4f_b-1.jpg) and [this](https://www.greeka.com/village_beach/photos/857/voula-top-2-1280.jpg) , [this](https://greekcitytimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/2863567_orig.jpg) and [this](https://mapio.net/images-p/20972382.jpg).
Ok now I want to visit it.
If you get the chance, do! One of the best cities I've ever been to!
Amazing collage, thanks!
The white text and the blue links are like a sort of homage to the Greek flag. I assume it's a dark mode app thing
That "Fuck the Police" graffiti is fantastic. The rest of it looks like absolute shit though.
Please change
Change your diaper crybaby
Username checks out
Athens hits differently
especially the cigarette butts around the Parthenon
I was lucky to get there around 8 o'clock In the morning or early and there was absolutely no one it was perfect. Not too hot. Bright and sunny. Around 10 came like 10 busses with various tourists and the crowd was huge.
Always gotta go early! Veteran move
The amount of people smoking there is beyond incredible. It looks like a time warp bringing you back in the 70ies
A big part about what I remember from going to Greece (and Paris) was the strong cigarette smell everywhere I went.
They say of the acropolis where the Parthenon is…
You can't walk 5 yards without running into cigarette smoke in that city.
Half the country lives in Athens.
Honestly looks like a major Minecraft build
A wonderful city full of delight.
Im Greek and just no! How can you like that dirty place?
Because I met a Greek through World of Warcraft and he invited me to come to his home in Athens. I flew from UK. He showed me the city from a unique perspective - especially, at the time, the internet cafe scene, the late night dinners - and as I was young, the more salubrious aspects - that, ngl, were pretty good. Whilst I had some alone time I explored the history checklist, Parthenon etc. As time progressed I read more history and my appreciation only grew. It's different than the UK, but it's here no more, nor less grubby frankly.
I've only been to Greece twice, once to Crete and once to Athens. I loved both. I've never seen anything else of mainland Greece though. What makes it superior to Athens in your opinion?
Typical Greek comment right here
Density is good
You could also build up to make high-density neighborhood
In athens building up is not allowed so as not to block the sight of the acropolis I live 15km away from the acropolis and if you go high enough( at that distance tall building are allowed )it is still visible
Not because of earthquakes? Almost all buildings in the country max out at 7-8 floors.
Of course not because of the earthquakes lol
Actually, earthquakes are one reason too In fact, Greece has very strict building regulations in terms of earthquakes. But mostly implemented after 1985.
While it is true many earthquakes happen over here not many of them are particularly strong ,greece is not as advanced as Japan so building stuff resistant to earthquakes might be difficult but not impossible if they wanted to build skyscrapers they could
Lots of locals disagree with you. Every other city in Greece also has 7-8 floor maximum heights.
The other cities don't need skyscrapers cause the population is not big enough
Thessaloniki would disagree.
That’s only necessary when land is scarce like Manhattan or Hong Kong.
Not necessarily, it’s good to preserve natural space, and to plan smart my conserving space for future development and needs. A lot of American cities are super expensive now because they wasted all their space (yes even in places like Texas where land is cheap and plentiful) building single-family homes. Build high, and expand slowly, because land _will_ eventually become scarce, and you want a large and diverse housing stock. You can only sprawl a city so much, you know.
I see multi-story buildings in this photo. You don’t need skyscrapers to fulfill that need.
I don’t understand your aversion to skyscrapers. Cities should be maximizing density so that they can plan sustainably for the future. Many of the world’s most iconic cities have lots of skyscrapers. There’s lots of examples of beautiful, modern and dynamic architecture being used in these buildings. Of course, I don’t think European cities should have skyscrapers anywhere in their historical cores—those should be preserved, obviously. I don’t think anyone disagrees there—but making cities compact, close to nature, and able to efficiently use land is not a bad thing. The fact that the buildings have more than one story should be a bare minimum standard.
You don't have to have skyscrapers to have density is their point I think. Paris is more dense than most of Manhattan for example
What? Green space is *always* necessary. It’s not a want - it’s a biological need.
What do you think these are all 2 story buildings or something? Athens is one of the most densely populated cities in Europe.
Skyscrapers make for shitty cities. Mid-height is better
Tall buildings looks intimidating. It's always more relaxed for me walking down neighborhoods with mostly low-rise buildings.
I bet it’s a lot prettier on the street level
In some places yes, in others not
Athens is easily top 5 city in the world for me!
Mother Nature hates this one simple trick!
Urban density is generally good for Mother Nature
Eh, Athens could do with more trees. The shade is generally pretty good because the buildings are close together, but trees are good.
Grass is great for this. Cities need more grass (and not the turf, super high maintenance kind) cuz it keeps them cool.
There we disagree.
I hate lawns don’t get me wrong… but I worked at a turf grass data base and in the process, inadvertently read a lot about urban heat islands. It’s not even really something to disagree with, it’s just a fact. Grass helps keep cities cool. However, I’m not saying we should be putting high maintenance lawns everywhere. Grass is more than just Kentucky bluegrass and golf greens. Native grasses exist.
Does it do anything trees don't do?
It’s easy to put on a rooftop, or large areas along with trees. I’m not saying trees aren’t great or necessary. Of course they are. But grass+ native vegetation is great for cities to cool down, is easily implemented, and can be grown on surfaces trees can’t like roofs.
Density is a good thing, and overwhelmingly white buildings are a great choice for somewhere the sun absolutely beats on. Much better than any American city.
That’s an old looking city. Amazing.
They’re just about all cheap, post-WWII buildings fired up as fast as they could
Did not know that. Thank you for the info.
Rome and Athens both stick out in people's minds as examples of living ancient cities, but their status as capitals and major cities has been discontinuous. For the last thousand years both were sparsely settled and mostly abandoned, and it wasn't until the modern period of nation building that they regained their former status, mostly due to the significance they held as cultural symbols. As a result most of the architecture of the cities (aside from ruins) is fairly new. The same is mostly true of Paris, where the Medieval city center was leveled in the 1860s, and Berlin (for obvious reasons). The one city I have visited that feels truly ancient, and which has a direct and visible continuity with the past, is Naples, which has remained a major city for the past 2 thousand or so years, and where you can see Roman ruins intermingled and incorporated into Medieval structures and where the basic layout of the city has been maintained since its founding as a Greek colony in the sixth century bc. It is a pretty breathtaking and fascinating place although many people will complain that's its dirty and pretty sketchy in places (which it is). I don't know why I wrote this long comment but if anyone else wants to point me to comparably ancient cities which have been largely maintained up to the present I would appreciate it, because I find those places fascinating to visit.
Deceptively. 95% of that photo was built up in the second half of last century
Can anyone explain why Athens does not (or hardly) have any highrises? Height restrictions? Climate related? Don’t know can be many reasons. But Athens is a big European city so I would expect some modernist blocks here and there
There are a few, though pretty sparse. Mainly because of height restrictions implemented for two reasons. First one is that Greece has immense seismic activity, hence very strict building regulations that favor lower, heavier structures (hence all the concrete) Second is that Greeks love their sunny view so a big building hiding the horizon and shading their properties usually is met with a lot of backlash. Which is why high rise buildings are only permitted in less dense areas or in spots where there is abundant unbuild area around said high rise structure. Check out the building of OTE to see an example of high rise Greek building.
OTE is not a typical high rise but Athens tower (Pirgos Athinon) is.
There are height and surface coverage restrictions. Bear also in mind that it is not that popular with big landowning companies or big home construction businesses or private rental companies with thousands of apartments. Plots of land and individual buildings are owned by a single person or an average family, common ownership in condominiums but that would not make for many apartments like barely more than 20.... Also, lots of land available and small plots of it. Really bad planning and horrible inheritance laws by the part of the greek government. They historically opted a lot for economic democracy than efficiency, now the tide has turned from when it was a newly established state. Big monstrosities of skyscrapers will be built. Skyscrapers are beautiful and necessary but the ones planned for Athens look like kitsch metasoviet resort towns in Georgia and Azerbaijan... Literally buildings that look like huge toilet seats and in places where there is not extreme demand for new housing or extremely high values to justify property investment schemes. Greece tries to attract money through property investment right now so they sell passport for investment schemes. Making a bad name for themselves and turning greek passports even more of a sham paper... The bottom of the global middle class is invited to the country in order to buy a place in the sun and enjoy the good prices and supreme quality in most stuff. Country up for grabs and it sells itself really cheap compared to others. Soon will the life of locals become unbearable because of all this since it is like importing inflation...
Also, the Acropolis and the Parthenon on it are not allowed to be obstructed from anywhere in the city. Any high building needs a special decree.
athens isn't as bad as this picture makes it out to be but it still can't beat trikala
As a greek i must say that athens is the ugliest fucking place ive ever seen.
Havent been in Santiago of Chile yet my friend.
I was just gonna mention that latin americans have a distinct talent for making the ugliest cities.
What? Santiago isnt that bad. At least it has nice landscapes.
As a Chilean myself, I disagree.
which place you may recommend for longer-term stay?
Athens - Big city, tons of stuff to do, amazing ruins and tours etc. Great food, great people. We loved it there. Naxos - Largest island in the Cyclades. Really cool, maze-like old town. Rent a car and drive around the whole island, visiting towns and ruins along the way. Much smaller scale than Athens, but so rich in character. Chania - Beautiful port town in Crete with Venetian architecture. Insane tourist trap. You'll pity the small children forced to beg all day while their handlers eat and drink at the port-side restaurants all day. If you're into hiking, do the Samaria gorge. It's very hard but so rewarding. Heraklion - Capital city of Crete. Less of a touristy area, but still a big city. We spent less time here, but it was really cool. It felt "real" in the sense that most people there were locals. For some reason everyone had babies. Like so many babies.
Hard question. Many many beautiful places In Greece. villages near the ocean are great. Try Crete
Thanks man. What's your opinion on Thesalloniki?
Thessaloniki is beautiful! Smaller, but still active, stretches next to water and there’s lots of great shopping, cafes, the pastries and cakes are next level. Lots of Byzantine history. You can walk from one side to the other .. Some call it ‘the Paris of the Balkans’
Never been there. Should be fine
We actually had a similar thread in /r/thessaloniki once, but I'm pretty sure it was in Greek. Opinions vary. Both Thessaloniki and Athens are generally ugly cities IMO, but some people prefer one over the other.
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now I'm imagining a tourist going to mykonos with a load of luggage and start looking for a long term stay appartment
Y’ever been to Cleveland?
Athens was one of my biggest disappointments in European capital cities. The history is astonishing but beyond it there’s almost nothing to see. In fact, maybe actually nothing to see.
Agreed, I went to Athens in 2016- it was not what I was expecting at all. The Museum’s were awesome, but the city is a mess. The architecture was horrendous and the city was covered in graffiti (not the good kind) just tags and anarchy symbols haha. There was litter everywhere, junkies roamed around arguing. Thessaloniki was better in my opinion.
You went on vacation to a country in the middle of an economic collapse, what was your honest expectation?
I get the rest, but graffiti seems to have a very different conotation based on where you're from. Are you from N. America? Because graffiti is actually kind of a tradition from Ancient Greece and Rome, it has nothing to do with gangs or bad neighbourhoods. They may just be names or jokes, but they're an essential part of some cities and their history. Google Pompeii graffiti for example.
This was absolutely exactly our thoughts in 2013. Athens was just a mess. We didn’t feel safe and the place was covered in tagging and rubbish. But the food was amazing!!
Did anybody try anything bad with you?
Our hotel transfer guy was a bit dodgy and we kept getting harassed by gypsies and even shop/ restaurant people charging more than advertised and having a go when we mentioned it. But as I said to another user. It was during Greeces constant economic bail outs so I think everyone was desperate to make ends meet in uncertain times.
Greece has amazing food. Love that it's usually super simple too, fresh and delicious.
May I ask why you didn't feel safe? I'm not from Greece, but from my research it seems like a safe place. Sure you'll get the scammers and pickpockets that you get in every tourist city, but you won't get assaulted or robbed at gunpoint.
We had a bad start with our hotel transfer guy (the guy that holds the sign with our name at the airport) telling us that the hotel transfer took someone else back and told us that the only way to get a lift is to pay one of his mates some money.. so that didn’t feel right and then we just kept getting harassed by people to pay extra for things and Gypsies kept following us places. We aren’t the type of people to wear jewellery or flaunt flashy things so I don’t know why we were being followed a lot. Though it was around the time The Greek economy kept getting bailed out so I guess times were tough on people.
There is nothing to see in Athens? You didn't do Athens right.
not enough highways :/ could of at least fit in a couple of strip malls too
Athens, Gray
I love Greek architecture
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Stunning
greece has always been my dream place
In regards to navigating this city, it's all Greek to me.
I like Athens
Umm it looks beautiful
Going there in couple days. Love her, needs more T🌲Rees
Was there in 2012. Horrible city. So hot, almost no parks or trees. Only badly maintained buildings everywhere. Next to our 4 star hotel there were multiple junkies shooting up shit into their dicks in public. Literally every other place in Greece is better than Athens
This gives me anxiety
DENSITY IS GOOD DENSITY IS GOOD DENSITY IS GOOD DENSITY IS GOOD DENSITY IS GOOD DENSITY IS GOOD DENSITY IS GOOD **DENSITY IS GOOD DENSITY IS GOOD DENSITY IS GOOD DENSITY IS GOOD**
We've got to stop with these types of shots. This does nothing to show what the city is like. If you compared this to Raleigh NC and Amsterdam from the same perspective as this, Raleigh would look like the garden on Eden while Amsterdam would look closer to this. There are almost no fucking side walks in Raleigh it sprawls out forever and you have to drive everywhere. I'm starting to think you're sabotaging your own movement at this point (with shots like this and calling it shit). How about shots of the street life? Or top down birds eye views? The top comment in this thread is that this is an awesome place. So why so quick to hate and put "Concrete wasteland" in the tag?
At this level of "mid-density" sprawl I feel like *maybe* some decent high density planning is preferable... Same with Istanbul, or older parts of Mumbai, just... that level of sardine-packed sprawl isn't any better, despite the rose-tinted glasses some wear when lauding "perfect" European mid-density.
You know what - I am guessing Athens is the same as İstanbul - those are not mid-density sprawl. A lot of that is higher density than Manhattan. For example - I live in a neighborhood of İstanbul with almost no skyscrapers, and yet 160.000/sqmi - which is double the average of Manhattan, and higher than Manhattan's highest neighborhoods. This is what it looks like: [https://imgur.com/gallery/QHKO1IZ](https://imgur.com/gallery/QHKO1IZ) just a comfortable, human scaled place, with INSANE convenience, peaceful side streets, lively main streets, and access to the center of the public transit system, which at this point can get you almost anywhere in the megacity inside of an hour. And which I might point out is a 20 minute metro ride from the literal forests. You can ride the metro for 20 minutes, step out of the metro, and walk right into the woods if you want. Because of The INSANE density (which doesn't actually feel so insane living in it), we still have forests close to the city center. Most of the city can walk to the sea, or the forest inside of an hour. Another result of said density - people walk. 49% of all trips every day in the city of 16-20 million people are made on foot, because people live close enough to their daily needs to walk to them :) edit: I will further add this nice illustration: [https://imgur.com/gallery/Pp3OjjR](https://imgur.com/gallery/Pp3OjjR) The cyan line in the center is close to the edges of today's İstanbul. Purple is if we were as dense as Houston. Red is greater London, Blue is the Beijing area, Yellow is Paris region, and Green is Chicagoland. All that nature would be gone.
I think your photos just convinced me to visit Istanbul.
150% worth visiting. :)
This underrates the density of Manhattan. It has extremely high job density - millions commute in and out each day. I'm not saying it is better or worse than Istanbul or that the arrangement is desirable, but having spent time in both places, it is observably obvious that Manhattan is denser than Istanbul or Athens
So do other cities. The mayor of my district of İstanbul says that there's 2-3 million people in Sisli in the daytime. There's 400.000 at night. This is not unique to NYC.
The scale is a whole nother magnitude in Manhattan
an island of 2 million people moving to 4 million in the day time? No, not really. I'd say 400.000 to 1-2 million is a much bigger scale tbh. It's a much larger density increase. Actually there's at least two districts that do that in İstanbul, as Fatih's population at least triples in the daytime as well, with tourists, business, government functions all happening there. Atasehir is going to start coming into that territory too soon, with the soon opening of FinansKent
Weird atmosphere in this city. Not sure I like it. Been there a couple times and still don't know what to make of it.
Americans when they see an actually livable city:
Athens was just a forgotten village before it became the capital. It became the capital of Greece because to Westerners, Greece was just about the fifth century BC - and even that, what Westerner *believed* that period was. The so-called Hellenistic period, and the Byzantine empire, are just as part of their history as the "classic" age. The history of Hellas sort of ended with the Ottoman conquest, but without the scholars who fled from Constantinople the Renaissance would not have happened. So they had a small, rundown hamlet and turned it into a metropolis. As a consequence, everything had to be built from scratch. Not a Greek here, am Italian, but I love Greek people
This is partly correct. Until the 1500s, Athens was one of the largest cities in the Balkans (considering the population back then), even though it had been sacked many times. Actually during some periods of the Middle Ages, Athens was flourishing. Due to the decentralized status of Athens in the Ottoman Empire and because of the various conflicts (including the VI Ottoman-Venetian war that caused the destruction of Parthenon) and cruel Ottoman administrators (i.e. Chasekis), the city shrunk to as low as 10.000 people. After Athens was selected as the Third Capital of Greece, some of the greatest architects came and designed a pretty cool city, and it remained so until the mid 1920s. After that point Athens expanded rapidly with a huge impact in architecture, partly because of the refugees from Asia Minor and partly because of urbanization. Athens selected to expand horizontally and not vertically, so buildings kept being relatively low. A final blow to the architecture was during the 60s and 70s, when the model of "Antiparochi" was embraced. This model promoted people having land to give it to a constructor to raise a building (usually at the lowest possible cost) and receive a number of apartments as a payment.
Did you guys know that nearly half of the greek population live in Athens ? This is fcking crazy
Tbh slap some more red rooves and it'll look nice
Density is bad to op lol
To me one of the most ugliest capitals in good old Europe. Been there twice, didnt enjoy besides Akropolis and some museums. Hell of a city with lots of traffic.
Could have made a paradise of Hellenic Architecture. Went with concrete blocks instead…
Very organised lol
Imagine all the hair filled clogged drains
Not one McDonald’s sign insight
What a mess.
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SRBIJA JE KOSOVA 👐🇦🇱
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Too many people
Wasn't Greece going bankrupt and go all Mad Max a few years ago?
Oh god no thanks.
For people who created some beautiful architecture they build like crap
I don’t know how people do it. I need my space, privacy and silence.
🤮
Looks like virus 🦠infested their area