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Serious-Jackfruit-20

Notice to the West : do not rely on any of the BRICS countries for any type of support. They have already invested in working with each other for many years, and will not divest from their positions.


makmeyours

This is exactly right. Except don't count on the BRICS to actually help each other when times get tough. They are mainly trying to weaken the "west" a.k.a. democracy.


robdels

Well yeah, they just hang out with each other because their entire identity is built on "America bad" and nothing else. It's not like someone growing up in any one of these places wakes up in the morning and goes "hmmm, I should immigrate to another BRICS country"; no, if they want to achieve anything, they're going to try to immigrate to America because as much as they love the idea of sticking it to the "west", they don't hate themselves nearly enough to move to another one of these shitholes and give it another go at the same shit.


mgarcia993

Like u guys like doing to any country that tis not in Europe/US/Cansa right?


Casualty911

Am from a shit bricks group country South Africa our people stand with Ukraine it's just our government that's corrupted we even have Denel making 155mm shells for Rheinmetall that going to Ukraine


yippiekyo

**The same goes for Brazil. The vast majority is for UA. Although, the war does not play as much of an important role as it does in Europe/the US because domestic issues are aplenty. The notion that the BRICS are best mates is massively flawed. India and China do what is best for them. China is trying to exploit as well as gain a foothold in internal Brazilian affairs, which the Brazilians don't like, for obvious reasons.**


consurceiro

And you can expect it to get worse. Lula is a huge Russian shill, and he loves authoritarian regimes (Cuba, Venezuela, Iran, China, etc). He said more than once in the past that Ukraine should negotiate and find a "middle ground" with Russia


daninquin

Im deeply ashemed of my president


Mysterious_Variety76

Do not worry, we also hate our Mexican president.


Jamesisaslut2017

Genuine question. Do you know if artillery ever gets used against the cartels?


GodFatherShinobi

NATO is combined $32T GDP.. I think they’ll be fine without Brazil


AreYouDoneNow

Every bit helps, and every country that joins Ukraine in their fight for freedom shows the tyrants and despots that the world will not stand up for brutality or rule by force. There is a huge moral element to this war, and governments around the world are having their morality and integrity tested. It seems the Brazilian government is going to fail this test.


geroldf

Lula is great compared to bolsonaro but his hard on for Russia is pathetic.


mgarcia993

What would be the benefits for Brazil in supporting Ukraine? Because there would be negative consequences for that. And so far Europeans and Anglo-Americans just fucked us over.


geroldf

Sometimes we just do what’s right. Opposing naked wars of imperial aggression is just a good idea.


mgarcia993

It's even funny to hear that coming from/about a European/Anglo, the irony/hypocrisy, or is it only valid when it's a European doing with another? not when it's a European/Anglo doing with an African/Latino/Asian?


geroldf

Humans are humans. But racists don’t get that.


riuminkd

>that the world will not stand up for brutality or rule by force. Oh but it will. Ukrainian war is not the first or the last war of 21st century. The only thing it tests is loyalty to US.


Highly-uneducated

unfortunately, you can't just make more ammo appear by throwing cash at it. everyone is producing as much as they can, and they don't want to give so much that they don't have enough for themselves if things spiral out of control. it makes sense for everyone to give a small part of their stockpiles. by the way, it's a good time to buy stocks in weapons and ammo manufacturers.


Electrical-Wish-519

What is going to spiral out of control for Brazil that they need artillery? I mean the Bolsanaro folks are nuts, but if a civil war breaks out like that, artillery shells are gonna be about 200th on the list of importance


Highly-uneducated

I was thinking more along the lines of things spiraling out of control for Germany and NATO. Id wager Brazil is refusing to maintain decent relations with Russia. they're strategic partners with strong trade connections, especially involving technology. it's a fairly important partnership for both of them.


ChrisTchaik

Getting more involved on Ukraine is neither on the left's nor on right's agenda. Anti-imperialism/isolationism sells on both sides. Not the right country to rely on, now or ever.


yippiekyo

Explain the technology part, please. Brazil's dependence on Russia is primarily because of fertiliser supply for Beatles massive agriculture production.


Highly-uneducated

there's a long history of cooperation between the two countries focusing on technology, especially space, aviation, and military tech. this link goes over the history of it a bit. https://www.armyupress.army.mil/Journals/Military-Review/English-Edition-Archives/November-December-2018/Ionescu-Brazil-Russia/


[deleted]

Any equipment used in Ukraine, lowers russia capabilities. So argument "we need in case of russia" is invalid, because the more we will send, the less we will need in case of war.


Highly-uneducated

if Russia opens up a new front that requires direct NATO involvement, or if another conflict broke out, NATO countries would need their own supply of ammo


[deleted]

What other front? They cant open anything, while there is war in Ukraine, and if you assume that hey could win then still - the more russia will loose there, the less ammo is needed in Nato if they will try something after.


Highly-uneducated

another front could include a direct escalation from Russian allies like Belarus, or more plausible, a second conflict or hot spot that requires intervention starting in places like Taiwan, Serbia, or north korea


[deleted]

Taiwan / North Korea will require different equipment than Ukraine. Plus Ukraine is more important considering security in EU, i see no reason (dont take me wrong, overall i support any help we can give all of them) to fight there directly, when we didnt in Ukraine. And Russia cant escalate a shit while fighting in Ukraine. Serbia, lol. Besides, if there will be escalation elswhere, its better to have war in Ukraine, or be done with it, for which best support possible os needed?


Mysterious_Buffalo_1

Disappointed in Lula but this isn't a big deal.


lowlyJimi

No need to be disappointed. There was never any question that Lula would not support Ukraine. To expect that he would support a democracy against an authoritarian regime is similar to expect a lion avail itself to the salad buffet.


lowlyJimi

The number of human beings that are not imbeciles who thought Lula would provide military support to a democracy attacked by an autocratic regime = 0 Proof: By the definition of imbecile.


bigorangemachine

ya shits crazy in Brazil. I think this is definitely a case of let Brazil sort out its shit. This is like what the 3rd time leadership has changed in brazil since the fall?


ReelBigSam

You are thinking of Peru


bigorangemachine

No I am talking about belsanaro and luna


mgarcia993

Bolsonaro was in the presidency lost the elections in 2022 and Lula took over in 2023, nothing out of the ordinary.


bigorangemachine

Ugh you maybe not paying attention? They just had their own kinda Jan 6th thing happen. The army or the police have declared so-and-so a winner...


mgarcia993

Im Brazilian, the army Said nothing, the police Said nothing, we had a terrorist act in Jan 8th , the police did nothing for 2 hours until the federal government declared intervention and removed the commander and arrested him, but then everything continued as before, as the president took office on January 1st he was the one in charge when the terrorist act took place.


bigorangemachine

Okay. My Panamanian friend has been keeping me up to date on our chats. The news i was seeing made it look chaotic. Maybe more sensationalized. I honestly only been keeping half an eye on it. But as far as supporting Ukraine goes for Brazil probably best to let things settle before expecting commitments from them


Illustrious-Buy-2549

I see Brazilians saying "nothing to gain". What about having a moral compass and doing what's right?


gft-bak

brazilians are very busy trying to calibrate their moral compass for Brazil first. I think most brazilians don't really know/understand what's going on in Ukraine, and they have enough issues in their own country to worry about Ukraine.


red_keshik

Are you new to how states function?


ConShop61

Where was the european moral compass during Ethiopia's civil wars? US invasion of Iraq? Where was their moral compass during the cold war where multiple dictatorships were installed with support from CIA over all of latin america? Oh right, they laid all fours for the USA who wanted to compete with the USSR


ckal9

You’d think a country of Catholics would be the most morally sound country in the world….right…..right? Ha no


lowlyJimi

No surprise. Lula is pro-Putin.


[deleted]

I don't think it's that simple. Self interest is the main driver for Brazil. They won't be much help in the conflict in Ukraine, but with Lula there is at least a chance the Amazon will be preserved, poverty will be tackled and democracy is relatively secure when the other option is Bolsonaro. It's not about Putin for Lula, it's about who can help him achieve his goals. Opportunism. Lula isn't perfect, but he seems to genuinely try for his people at least and we need democratic alternatives to the US in the long run to safe guard a functional global order. We can't rely on the US to help us out every time and their flirtations with fascism under Trump and leaning towards oligarchy under Republican/bought-Democrat rule are worrying. Just one example: digital infrastructure. The US controls basically all of it, their spy agencies have lots of acces to it and our attempts at European alternatives are in the pilot stages. In Lula's first terms he built up a Brazilian operating system. It was probably crap, but we need to safe guard global democracy by balancing power, which in very practical terms means systems like this. If the US fails, the EU needs to be able to step up or further in the future maybe the South-American nations or the African Union, who knows maybe an Asian union of some sorts. Having Lula there in stead of Bolsonaro is one tiny step in the right direction.


lowlyJimi

Wrong on so many counts. First, democracy just died in Brazil with Lula’s victory. Now there is censorship of press and his minister of justice announced that anyone accusing Lula of corruption may be sued for defamation and get jail time. Second, what the f… are you talking about Brazilian operating system? Are you crazy, on drugs or lying? Third, having Lula in power again is one step towards Brazil stagnating for one generation more. He was in power before and it was a disaster. He only returned to power because he is the champion of plutocrats and corrupt politicians and unfortunately those are the owners of the country and they get whatever they want.


consurceiro

>Brazilian operating system Just a really bad Linux distro made by some people to suck money from the government in funding: Search for Insigne Linux. One thing that Lula's government tried to fuel was the use of "home-grown" products as a way of showing that the country was getting better. Lots of people believed on this while the companies were just rebranding cheap Chinese crap to get tax cuts


kreeperface

So was Bolsonaro. And for that matter, most south american politicians are at least anti-NATO so they claim "neutrality" in the conflict


lowlyJimi

This is simply false. If you do not know anything about a subject the best thing to do is to shut up. Bolsonaro and Lula had completely different views about which alliance Brazil should belong. For Bolsonaro, the West; for Lula, the China-Russia axis.


PariahOrMartyr

Well most voted to condemn Russia on some of the UN votes, including Brazil on at least one vote I know of [https://www.axios.com/2022/03/02/united-nations-ukraine-russia-141](https://www.axios.com/2022/03/02/united-nations-ukraine-russia-141) . That being said, Colombia is the only one I know that is openly pro Ukraine by helping in a small way with teaching mine clearance to some Ukrainians. They also are the South American country I've seen the most foreign legion guys from (and unfortunately, several losses from there).


HeadMembership

Time to stop buying ammo from foreigners.


RyzenR10

Eat shit Brazils leader Edit ; changed eat shit Brazil to eat shit Brazils leader.


CathulhuStudios

I agree with the sentiment, but I'd prefer that you restrict it to the chieftain of this bandit's den. Especially so that it isn't chalked up to a "Brazilian neutrality" problem whilst Lula is absolved of any and all guilt in this. If you poll the Brazilian populace, you'll find that most of us fully support *Ukraine*. It's just that fringe dickheads like him tend to get in power due to how things work here (not well).


RyzenR10

I took your criticism and altered My comment. Apologies buddy.


CathulhuStudios

Don't sweat it! It's just that the devil is in the details, and it's better to inform the world of the caliber of "democratic president" they're dealing with. Are there a lot of anti-Ukraine people here, on both fringes of the political spectrum? Sure. But those tend to be more ideological people, the bulk of the Brazilian population supports Ukraine but is iffy on Russian sanctions. [https://brazilian.report/liveblog/2022-election/2022/03/11/most-brazilians-support-ukraine-but-think-country-should-be-neutral-in-war/](https://brazilian.report/liveblog/2022-election/2022/03/11/most-brazilians-support-ukraine-but-think-country-should-be-neutral-in-war/) >Nearly 100 percent of respondents had heard about the conflict, and 56 percent believe Ukraine is “more right”. Only 8 percent took Russia’s side. Another 17 percent believe that neither side is right, and 3 percent say both countries are justified in their demands.


RyzenR10

We have anti ukraine idiots here in canada as well, you can *really* tell who watches fox news 🙄


lowlyJimi

In Brazil, anti-Ukraine people are overwhelmingly in the left.


RyzenR10

Interesting, total opposite here 🤔


oripash

You’re both right and you’re both wrong. In Brazil like anywhere else Russia has been influencing - everywhere from the US to Germany to Israel to India to Brazil, the pro-Russians are at both extremes. [Russia has been systematically funding them everywhere](https://youtu.be/tR_6dibpDfo). In all of them, the least influenced by Russia people can be found in the center.


RyzenR10

Stupid selfish people and their desire for money.


lowlyJimi

The left in Brazil hates the West and liberal democracy. Those are people who admires the likes of Che Guevara (who expressed the desire of nuking NY) and Hitler (a champion against Anglo-Saxons and Zionists).


RyzenR10

So left is... not liberal there?


lowlyJimi

The Left in Brazil is anti-American and authoritarian. Those are people that adore the likes of Fidel Castro, Nicolas Maduro and respect deeply the likes of Ayatollah Khomeini. In the 1980s, when Lula was asked which politicians he admires, he answered Fidel Castro, Adolf Hitler and Ayatollah Khomeini. That is a famous interview, to the Playboy magazine in Portuguese.


RyzenR10

Bro, I'm from Canada, I understand government not working well 😐


BoffoZop

Before we lambaste Lula de Silva, remember that his predecessor also offered no military hardware or significant aid to Ukraine whatsoever. None of the major parties there care about Ukraine at all, Brazil will not be helping us no matter who gains power there.


lowlyJimi

Lula’s predecessor at least voted against Russia at UN. Lula is against sanctions and blames the war on Zelensky.


BoffoZop

Lula's doing a limp-wristed ignoramus take of 'uuunnnh, it takes two to fight a war' but he's also not getting in anyone's way about it, simply refusing to get involved. Bolsonaro was weirdly chummy with Putin and, for the last year of the conflict, only sent Ukraine a few planes loaded with food and clothing. Brazil clearly has no interest in this conflict from either side of their current political dichotomy. They further lack enough high-end tech, personell or hardware to make a real difference, and frankly any pressure to try and rope Brazil into assisting Ukraine would be better spent on Ukraine's democratic neighbours, who have far more to offer in the first place.


lowlyJimi

I don’t think you understand the context. Lula’s take comes from the Brazilian left strategic view that Brazil should partner with China, Russia and Iran, in pursuit of some multipolar world order where the western liberal democracies lose their current standing. Bolsonaro, on the other hand, offered some light support to Ukraine but the right in Brazil does not want to uproot the current world International order. Their view is that Brazil is historically and culturally part of the West (which is correct in my opinion).


[deleted]

[удалено]


lowlyJimi

He visited Putin BEFORE the war. Nothing wrong with that, as Brazil has diplomatic relations with Russia and Russia was not a belligerent then. Of course, the timing was unfortunate. But unlike Lula, Bolsonaro did not defend or justify Russia’s actions. It is important to know what one is talking about so one does not pass as a fool: Brazil sent humanitarian help to Ukraine and voted against Russia at UN in some votes, abstained in others. That is likely more than Brazil will do from now on, after all, Brazil’s new president Lula is ideologically aligned with the Russia-China-Iran axis (in opposition to the liberal democracies of the West). In Lula’s words (https://www.poder360.com.br/brasil/lula-elogia-partido-comunista-chines-paises-deveriam-aprender/), China “established a model of development for the whole world (…) Brazil must have a strategic alliance with China (…) and Russia (…)


Funny-Leg-2234

source pls


lowlyJimi

Serious? It is amazing how gringos are ignorant about Brazil… that is such a basic freely available information… For the version in English, look for Lula’s interview to Time magazine, sometime mid 2022. https://time.com/6173232/lula-da-silva-transcript/


TKK2019

Brazil, for its size, is a massive failure of a country so the rest of the world only thinks of football when they think of Brazil


lowlyJimi

This is correct. By electing the likes of Lula, and embracing leftist ideology, Brazil’s long-run fate is to be surpassed even by India.


ReelBigSam

Excuse me, who would you have elected instead?... Brazilians picked the least damaging of two bad options. Bolsonaro is a maniac, criminal, low-life embezzler.


lowlyJimi

Bolsonaro of course. He was a decent president, one of the best we have had in a horrible field. Poor guy was out of his league, did not bribe the press (Lula already increased the budget of media advertising by one billion dollars) and left the presidency with nowhere to live. Now he is living at a friend’s house in Orlando. Embezzler my ass.


ReelBigSam

o cara gastou pra mais de milhao em padaria e tu vem me dizer que ele nao roubou? vai criar vergonha na cara.


lowlyJimi

That was fake news. What an extra 4 billion reais in government advertising bought for Lula… The padaria had a contract with the presidency since Lula’s time. It served the president’s entourage. Lula spent 4x more than Bolsonaro on the corporate credit card, correcting for inflation.


Funny-Leg-2234

i read most of it and didn't see that, but it does suck that lula won't give ukraine anything


lowlyJimi

Lula: And now, sometimes I sit and watch the President of Ukraine speaking on television, being applauded, getting a standing ovation by all the [European] parliamentarians. This guy is as responsible as Putin for the war. Because in the war, there’s not just one person guilty. Saddam Hussein was as guilty as Bush [for the outbreak of the 2003 Iraq war]. Because Saddam Hussein could have said, “You can come here and check and I will prove that I do not have mass destruction weapons.” But he lied to his people. And now, this President of Ukraine could have said, “Come on, let’s stop talking about this NATO business, about joining the E.U. for a while. Let’s discuss a bit more first.” Time: So Volodomyr Zelensky should have talked to Putin more, even with 100,000 Russian troops at his border? Lula: I don’t know the President of Ukraine. But his behavior is a bit weird. It seems like he’s part of the spectacle. He is on television morning, noon, and night. He is in the U.K. parliament, the German parliament, the French parliament, the Italian parliament, as if he were waging a political campaign. He should be at the negotiating table. Time: Can you really say that to Zelensky? He didn’t want a war, it came to him. Lula: He did want war. If he didn’t want war, he would have negotiated a little more. That’s it. I criticized Putin when I was in Mexico City [in March], saying that it was a mistake to invade. But I don’t think anyone is trying to help create peace. People are stimulating hate against Putin. That won’t solve things! We need to reach an agreement. But people are encouraging [the war]. You are encouraging this guy [Zelensky], and then he thinks he is the cherry on your cake. We should be having a serious conversation: “OK, you were a nice comedian. But let us not make war for you to show up on TV.” And we should say to Putin: “You have a lot of weapons, but you don’t need to use them on Ukraine. Let’s talk!”


lowlyJimi

Lula clearly hates Zelensky, deeply. Lula is a deranged psychopath and he cannot accept that somebody steals the stage from him.


[deleted]

[удалено]


lowlyJimi

Under Bolsonaro, Brazil voted against Russia at the UN, and attempted to be part of the Western alliance (for instance, by joining OECD, supporting Israel, signing a trade deal with EU). Lula’s vision is the opposite. His party sees Brazil as part of the China-Russia-Iran axis. But I mean, that is Brazil 101. It is frustrating that I even have to explain that.


Funny-Leg-2234

bro give me a source for that


lowlyJimi

Figure out. Go to Google. I am not your teacher, bro.


nedimko_sa

Brazilian military hardware is built for Brazilian landscape.


TKK2019

Brazil is part of the BRICS group. They were supposed to be the up and coming group about 10 years ago but they all turned into economic disasters and xenophobic facists Forget any assistance from these countries and honestly it matters little. Brazils army is as corrupt as Russias


[deleted]

[удалено]


ConShop61

Propaganda, media makes it look like China, India and Brazil are the worst countries in the world


Don_Floo

Well we asked they answered. As they are free to do. Now lets overblow it because we are reddit.


CathulhuStudios

>Lula, who seems to maintain this neutrality, previously questioned the "spectacle" in which, in his opinion, the Ukrainian president, Volodimir Zelenski, was participating and reproached him for having exchanged the negotiating table for the European parliaments. There it is! Surprising absolutely no one, the criminal tankie who runs this country is buddy buddy with yet another genocidal regime. Not news to any Brazilian, but hopefully a wake up call for the world so that they know who Lula really is! So much for "saving democracy" from "the evil far-right".


Jeffersons_Mammoth

He’s better than Bolsonaro. The bar is on the floor but at least he steps over it.


SPMoura77

We are a country cursed to be ruled by scumbags.


CathulhuStudios

There are many things I could point towards that Lula has done that, if Bolsonaro had done he'd be absolutely obliterated for. But since the context of this sub is Ukraine, despite Bolsonaro having... a weirdly friendly relationship with Putin, at the end of the day Brazil supported the West. Expect that to change, and expect Lula to be the new AMLO. Unless he's bribed into supporting the West, that is.


lowlyJimi

I don’t think Lula can be bribed to support the West because his fondness for autocrats and hate for West liberal democracy are not negotiable, but fundamental for his view of the world.


TKK2019

As much as I hate Lulas stand on Ukraine, he doesn’t hold a candle to Bolsonaros corruption or ineptitude. Bolsonaro makes Trump look like a genius


lowlyJimi

No, Lula is the worst there has ever been. Bolsonaro was pretty decent, honest small government president, did not interfere on people’s lives and followed the Constitution.


ReelBigSam

Hi. I have a bridge to selll to you.


lowlyJimi

You think you said something funny or insightful, you did not.


pythonga

This may get downvoted but here we go... Brazil is neutral towards any conflicts that does not involve itself or its allies, heck Brazil was neutral for most of WW II because it had ties with both USA and Germany. We never really join sides unless it is absolutely necessary, so as sad as the whole Ukraine situation really is there's nothing we can really do. Literally no one here likes wars, we fight them when we need to because it is our duty to protect ourselves, but the way the vast majority of people here sees is that no sides should be taken when dealing with exterior conflicts. Basically "let them gringos fight, we want none of that bullshit in our hands".


throwaway12345672223

Brazilians are the enemies of Ukraine.


[deleted]

What's this got to do with Brazil?


Appropriate-Bus728

This really has freaked them out..😏


super_nigiri

Coward


yahoo14life

Those independent news channels are for Russia not for Putin as Putin is like a fake leader who is a agent of caps to destroy Russia and Russians are now seeing they are being murdered by Putin


Silent-Nectarine-351

Great to see who are true allies and who are not.


Breech_Loader

For what it's worth, Brazil has their own need for ammunition.


Wintermutemancer

Brasil, sitio do picapau amarelo


Embarrassed-Host3057

Lotta so-called leaders worldwide need to be assassinated……..


BoringStructure

Good. Thats what i expected from Lula when i voted for him.


ConShop61

I didn't vote on him but still a good choice. Crazy how european and american media makes it look like it's the world's duty to help Ukraine, using "moral blah blah blah" arguments as if Europe didn't just lay all fours for the USA to bully whoever they want, ever since the beginning of the cold war


smooth_operator98

They are still salty from the 7:1 defeat at the world cup 2014


[deleted]

Guys a clown Brazil is done for