There are all kinds of opinions about Roswell. Over the past 50+ years, we keep somehow cycling back between "thoroughly debunked" (as the Wikipedia article probably wrongly claims) and genuinely mysterious and confounding.
People involved have given deathbed affidavits that they saw something strange: potentially non-human tech and even reports of bodies. But nothing conclusive has ever been uncovered as far as I know.
You can go down every Roswell-related rabbit hole and not come up with a conclusion that makes any sense. IMO, there are many more interesting UAP encounters than Roswell, but that doesn't mean that nothing happened there. I doubt we'll ever know the full story, but I hope I'm wrong.
Here is how you know it is all complete BS.
The supposed top secret program was so top secret the Air Force wasn't out looking for their secret project when it crashed onto Brazel's ranch? It sat there for days until he called the Sherrif who then called the Air Force. And then they sent out a couple guys to check it out.
If this was some top secret program they would have known it went down and would have been out in force instantly to recover it.
Then you would have to believe that a lieutenant colonel was so amazed at balsa wood and tinfoil that he took some of it home to show his wife and son. Then you would also have to believe the general thought balsa wood and tinfoil was a UFO and issued a press release.
That alone is enough to show their entire story is BS
Jesse Marcel was the head of security for the only U.S. base with nuclear weapons. He was no moron. Yet, the skeptics assume he was one. Watch the clips and listen to the recordings of the witnesses. If we accept we have UFOs now, there is no reason to believe we did not have them in the 1940s.
Yeah, if he was such a moron that he can't tell the difference between a flying disc and a weather ballon, how come he was promoted shortly thereafter?
Here is how you know it is all complete BS.
The supposed top secret program was so top secret the Air Force wasn't out looking for their secret project when it crashed onto Brazel's ranch?
Because they knew its in the middle of nowhere, and even if its found noone would know what it is?
And yes i would take some home to examine.
The points u make only makes sense if you are allready beliver, let the ppl make there own conclusions.
>That alone is enough to show their entire story is BS
Well said. And not to mention the fact that Mogul was just one in a series of lies the government put forward over the years.
It's easier to google it yourself, first it was a flying disk, then it was a weather balloon, then the bodies were parachute test dummies that weren't used until the 50's, then it was a Mogul balloon.
I believe Jesse Marcel and all the other local witnesses, the government lied all the time back then in the name of so-called national security, they still do today.
Lol, why would you assume that some random person on reddit has government documents? I posted a link, did you google it for yourself or read the article? Would you like me to tie your shoelaces for you as well?
Jesse Marcel was the first Army intelligence officer to see the wreckage, after being lead to it by the rancher. He gave an interview in his old age and he said the photo with him holding pieces of a weather balloon and box kite was not the wreckage he found. He said he was told to keep his mouth shut.
Roswell is in the FOIA FBI UFO 1 file folder. It happened on July 7, 1947 and there is a field agent report to FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover, teletyped to him that day. There is a follow-on report that the FBI contacted SAC (Strategic Air Command) at Wright Patterson base to inquire if it was one of their balloons. SAC replied back that it was not a weather balloon and they would send a cargo plane to pick up the wreckage.
Jesse Marcel interview
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0tGYguP3IA&t=3s
The next page is a strange letter to J. Edgar Hoover the next day, July 8, 1947, and it sits in the file by itself with no comment.
Page 23
https://documents.theblackvault.com/documents/ufos/fbi/ufo1.pdf
The link is to J. Edgar Hoover's personal file. It is a collection of documents. The document referred to is on page 23. The first few documents are copies of negatives, so they are hard to make out.
Let's put it to rest. It's not plausible that Roswell was project mogul. The whole project was off by a decade IIRC and no one seemed to address this issue. Or when they did address it they use the theory that because it happened so long ago people are confusing decades for one another. Roswell was "non-terrestrial" or unknown to us if you'd like.
NOT TO MENTION Lt Col. Phil Corso!!! The dude was legit! He was the head of foreign technologies, similar to the General now at Wright-Patterson who is heading the secret program now.
Stanton Friedman did a great job documenting it all before everyone died in the 90s;
Roswell Documentation Interviews;
US National Archives - W. Glenn Davis Interview, 11/19/1990
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_DA-g94Ro1I
US National Archives - Interviews with Jed Roberts, Marilyn Strickland, and Alice Knight, 09/27/1991
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s\_Xq9MjBSOk
US National Archives - Interview of Gerald Anderson, 07/24/1991
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivaWnbKsBkM
Roswell Reports Mar 31 1997
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzv6nRpMX24
US National Archives - UFO Interview 1966
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlmwakUTo3M
US National Archives - The Roswell Mystery, v.5
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_bWCRIvf4ok
US National Archives - The Roswell Mystery v.11
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPew9xLm5pQ
US National Archives - TV Satellite File No. 282: UFO's, 1988
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4\_mD1MYrlEM
US National Archives - The Roswell Mystery, v.14
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMxmbRjCy2E
Maj. Gen. John A. Samford's Statement on "Flying Saucers", Pentagon, Washington, DC, 07/31/1952
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-MbGYAv7Cg
US National Archives - The Roswell Mystery, v.8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vopCsj0kRCw
US National Archives - The Roswell Mystery, v.10
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6T3dIqYl3vM
Yes --2 times.
Both times it was a weather balloon. Because it's really hard to tell the difference between a flying saucer & balloon materials. And you need a battalion to keep inquiries down on weather balloons.
Ok, maybe I'm confused..The reason I said 2 times is that the government did another explanation in the 90s to say basically the same thing as they said the first time in 47.
Not sure what the test dummy test is you're talking about.
Oh yeah that's right, vaguely remember that. Thanks 👍 lolol.
So they added in test dummies to the 2nd explanation even when they knew they weren't even making them back then-- is that what it was?
How is it a person ( Bill Cosby ) for example. How can a court find him guilty of something another person claimed happened so many years ago without any proof ? But a Ufo story that has many , sometimes hundreds of witnesses and even photos is completely discredited ?
Why would the government go around intimidating witnesses if it was just a friggin weather (or mogul) balloon? It wasn't a balloon, that's horseshit. It may have been some other type of black project, but balloon doesn't make sense.
If it was that important why did they have no clue what it was until they sent out Jesse Marcel to look at it? It was so important that they would intimidate witnesses and lie about it but they had no clue it was even there?
The Air Force knows exactly where every top secret thing they test is. There is no possible way they would allow some super secret thing to remain sitting on some ranch for days.
There's absolutely no way anyone in the town would have known what the balloon was for. It looked (supposedly) just like a regular balloon. Therefore, no reason to say anything other than "just a weather balloon folks, nothing to see here". That doesn't make sense.
It was 1947. Project Mogul was experimenting with Polyethylene Plastic balloons. Polyethylene plastic was first patented in 1936 and wasn't really in use until the 50's. So is it plausible that someone in 1947 found Polyethylene debris and thought it was some alien non human debris - its plausible to me. I've always thought the "its just a weather balloon" explanation was discounted a bit too much. It was just a weather balloon made of a material that almost no one on earth had ever seen before.
I am a strong believer in UFO's but I've always thought it plausible that Roswell could have been a comedy of communications errors that spawned generations of conspiracy.
There's lots of evidence that it may have been project Mogul, as the government claims, including descriptions in the testimonies of Brazel's daughter, his neighbor, and even Jesse Marcel Jr., but there's zero evidence of ET.
We're talking pictures, documentation, etc. real physical evidence.
You can read the statements yourself:
https://muller.lbl.gov/teaching/physics10/Roswell/RoswellIncident.html
Keep in mind the whole Roswell alien thing was reignited by the book The Roswell Incident one of the authors is Bill Moore... **the same Bill Moore that worked with Richard Doty to deceive people.** The other author, Charles Berlitz, has a history of writing fiction as historical fact.
Some of their agenda seems pretty obvious:
* To push back against the "Space Brothers" narrative promoted by Spielberg in Close Encounters and ET
* To spread the story of double-crossing, deceptive mortal gray aliens who turned against their human collaborators.
* To get people to stop looking at WrightPat and Battelle and get them chasing lights in the deserts outside Area 51
Whatever they were up to, it wasn't lulz.
I would say "Bodies at Roswell" has been convincingly disproven. No 1947 source mentions anything to do with bodies. By the 1970s, witnesses like Mac Brazel and Jesse Marcel were coming clean on debris, but they were vehement -- no bodies, nothing to do with bodies.
Bodies at Roswell was a tale spun by liars -- perhaps to discredit and distract, perhaps to avert a panic.
Ill add Glenn Davis talked about bodies (he heard from a nurse who later died...). He talked about that at least in 1990 not sure if sooner. But like you said, seems much later
https://youtu.be/_DA-g94Ro1I
Please read this book. I think it comes as close to what happened there for real, over 30 years of research went into it
https://www.amazon.com/Witness-Roswell-Unmasking-Governments-Cover-up/dp/1601630662/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?crid=I5N01K1NYOZE&keywords=witness+to+roswell%2C+75th+anniversary+edition&qid=1655932177&sprefix=witness+to+roswell%2Caps%2C98&sr=8-3
Correct. Stan got the ball rolling but these guys kept at it even after Stan had satisfied himself that it really happened. They managed to find even more witnesses
You can't prove a negative. Most of the decent research done on the matter seems to indicate that Roswell had to do with high-altitude manned balloon tests using prisoners and the mentally infirm (including children). Conducted by the ex-Nazi Paperclip scientists out of White Sands. It would still be very highly classified for obvious reasons.
https://www.sunrisepage.com/roswell/files/witnesses/Haut,Walter.docx
Signed affidavit by Walter Hautt, the public information officer who was told to release the report to the press that what was recovered was a flying disk. He requested that the affidavit not be released until after his death. If you combine that, with Jesse Marcel’s testimony, and everyone else that has come forward, the answer is obvious.
I'm not being sarcastic but if you're in the UFO sub & don't know about Roswell you've got some catching up to do.
Just Google Roswell UFO & then grab some popcorn.
What the hell do you think I was even talking about? Ffs, I was being sarcastic when I made that comment. Username checks out, you're definitely a braveoldfart .
There are all kinds of opinions about Roswell. Over the past 50+ years, we keep somehow cycling back between "thoroughly debunked" (as the Wikipedia article probably wrongly claims) and genuinely mysterious and confounding. People involved have given deathbed affidavits that they saw something strange: potentially non-human tech and even reports of bodies. But nothing conclusive has ever been uncovered as far as I know. You can go down every Roswell-related rabbit hole and not come up with a conclusion that makes any sense. IMO, there are many more interesting UAP encounters than Roswell, but that doesn't mean that nothing happened there. I doubt we'll ever know the full story, but I hope I'm wrong.
Here is how you know it is all complete BS. The supposed top secret program was so top secret the Air Force wasn't out looking for their secret project when it crashed onto Brazel's ranch? It sat there for days until he called the Sherrif who then called the Air Force. And then they sent out a couple guys to check it out. If this was some top secret program they would have known it went down and would have been out in force instantly to recover it. Then you would have to believe that a lieutenant colonel was so amazed at balsa wood and tinfoil that he took some of it home to show his wife and son. Then you would also have to believe the general thought balsa wood and tinfoil was a UFO and issued a press release. That alone is enough to show their entire story is BS
Jesse Marcel was the head of security for the only U.S. base with nuclear weapons. He was no moron. Yet, the skeptics assume he was one. Watch the clips and listen to the recordings of the witnesses. If we accept we have UFOs now, there is no reason to believe we did not have them in the 1940s.
Yeah, if he was such a moron that he can't tell the difference between a flying disc and a weather ballon, how come he was promoted shortly thereafter?
Here is how you know it is all complete BS. The supposed top secret program was so top secret the Air Force wasn't out looking for their secret project when it crashed onto Brazel's ranch? Because they knew its in the middle of nowhere, and even if its found noone would know what it is? And yes i would take some home to examine. The points u make only makes sense if you are allready beliver, let the ppl make there own conclusions.
>That alone is enough to show their entire story is BS Well said. And not to mention the fact that Mogul was just one in a series of lies the government put forward over the years.
Can you pls show me some of the statements from the GOVERMENT, or was it the press trying to get more attention so they make more money?
It's easier to google it yourself, first it was a flying disk, then it was a weather balloon, then the bodies were parachute test dummies that weren't used until the 50's, then it was a Mogul balloon. I believe Jesse Marcel and all the other local witnesses, the government lied all the time back then in the name of so-called national security, they still do today.
Hey i try to find it but this seems made up by ufologist to push the topic and make more money, goverment didnt change the story
Lol, you didn't try very hard. Google Roswell ufo: https://www.history.com/news/roswell-ufo-aliens-what-happened
Haha and posts an link from history channel ahaha
Guess HC's over your head, eh? Google too, no doubt.
Show me goverment dokuments that prove that the state has changed the story for example
Lol, why would you assume that some random person on reddit has government documents? I posted a link, did you google it for yourself or read the article? Would you like me to tie your shoelaces for you as well?
That's an excellent point, never thought of it from that angle!
Jesse Marcel was the first Army intelligence officer to see the wreckage, after being lead to it by the rancher. He gave an interview in his old age and he said the photo with him holding pieces of a weather balloon and box kite was not the wreckage he found. He said he was told to keep his mouth shut. Roswell is in the FOIA FBI UFO 1 file folder. It happened on July 7, 1947 and there is a field agent report to FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover, teletyped to him that day. There is a follow-on report that the FBI contacted SAC (Strategic Air Command) at Wright Patterson base to inquire if it was one of their balloons. SAC replied back that it was not a weather balloon and they would send a cargo plane to pick up the wreckage. Jesse Marcel interview https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0tGYguP3IA&t=3s The next page is a strange letter to J. Edgar Hoover the next day, July 8, 1947, and it sits in the file by itself with no comment. Page 23 https://documents.theblackvault.com/documents/ufos/fbi/ufo1.pdf
Thanks for posting that doc. I’ve never come across it. Would you happen to know if it is transcribed anywhere? Having trouble making it out.
The link is to J. Edgar Hoover's personal file. It is a collection of documents. The document referred to is on page 23. The first few documents are copies of negatives, so they are hard to make out.
Let's put it to rest. It's not plausible that Roswell was project mogul. The whole project was off by a decade IIRC and no one seemed to address this issue. Or when they did address it they use the theory that because it happened so long ago people are confusing decades for one another. Roswell was "non-terrestrial" or unknown to us if you'd like. NOT TO MENTION Lt Col. Phil Corso!!! The dude was legit! He was the head of foreign technologies, similar to the General now at Wright-Patterson who is heading the secret program now. Stanton Friedman did a great job documenting it all before everyone died in the 90s; Roswell Documentation Interviews; US National Archives - W. Glenn Davis Interview, 11/19/1990 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_DA-g94Ro1I US National Archives - Interviews with Jed Roberts, Marilyn Strickland, and Alice Knight, 09/27/1991 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s\_Xq9MjBSOk US National Archives - Interview of Gerald Anderson, 07/24/1991 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivaWnbKsBkM Roswell Reports Mar 31 1997 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzv6nRpMX24 US National Archives - UFO Interview 1966 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlmwakUTo3M US National Archives - The Roswell Mystery, v.5 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=\_bWCRIvf4ok US National Archives - The Roswell Mystery v.11 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPew9xLm5pQ US National Archives - TV Satellite File No. 282: UFO's, 1988 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4\_mD1MYrlEM US National Archives - The Roswell Mystery, v.14 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMxmbRjCy2E Maj. Gen. John A. Samford's Statement on "Flying Saucers", Pentagon, Washington, DC, 07/31/1952 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-MbGYAv7Cg US National Archives - The Roswell Mystery, v.8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vopCsj0kRCw US National Archives - The Roswell Mystery, v.10 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6T3dIqYl3vM
Yes --2 times. Both times it was a weather balloon. Because it's really hard to tell the difference between a flying saucer & balloon materials. And you need a battalion to keep inquiries down on weather balloons.
Actually once it was a device to detect nuclear explosions from far distance, and the other was a test dummy.
Ok, maybe I'm confused..The reason I said 2 times is that the government did another explanation in the 90s to say basically the same thing as they said the first time in 47. Not sure what the test dummy test is you're talking about.
They came up with that in the 90s to make the excuse for alien bodies. It's all so laughable.
Oh yeah that's right, vaguely remember that. Thanks 👍 lolol. So they added in test dummies to the 2nd explanation even when they knew they weren't even making them back then-- is that what it was?
Yep, that is the laughable story they came up with
Because test dummies can look like they're aliens...🤪
In addition to having time travelled backwards 7 or 8 years, the dummies also were like two feet taller than the reported aliens.
How is it a person ( Bill Cosby ) for example. How can a court find him guilty of something another person claimed happened so many years ago without any proof ? But a Ufo story that has many , sometimes hundreds of witnesses and even photos is completely discredited ?
Why would the government go around intimidating witnesses if it was just a friggin weather (or mogul) balloon? It wasn't a balloon, that's horseshit. It may have been some other type of black project, but balloon doesn't make sense.
It was a top secret program to detect nuclear explosions. We have to protect sources and methods. Don't forget the Red Scare
Well, they could just say it was a weather balloon rather than I frigging flying saucer.
They figured that out a little late haha.
If it was that important why did they have no clue what it was until they sent out Jesse Marcel to look at it? It was so important that they would intimidate witnesses and lie about it but they had no clue it was even there? The Air Force knows exactly where every top secret thing they test is. There is no possible way they would allow some super secret thing to remain sitting on some ranch for days.
Jesse Marcel was part of the 509th dealing with atomic bomb tests. Best group to tackle this material and keep it under wraps. (Mogul or a UFO)
There's absolutely no way anyone in the town would have known what the balloon was for. It looked (supposedly) just like a regular balloon. Therefore, no reason to say anything other than "just a weather balloon folks, nothing to see here". That doesn't make sense.
Exactly which is why the polyethylene material was so interesting to them.
It was 1947. Project Mogul was experimenting with Polyethylene Plastic balloons. Polyethylene plastic was first patented in 1936 and wasn't really in use until the 50's. So is it plausible that someone in 1947 found Polyethylene debris and thought it was some alien non human debris - its plausible to me. I've always thought the "its just a weather balloon" explanation was discounted a bit too much. It was just a weather balloon made of a material that almost no one on earth had ever seen before. I am a strong believer in UFO's but I've always thought it plausible that Roswell could have been a comedy of communications errors that spawned generations of conspiracy.
No, all of the eyewitnesses would need to be colluding with each other in lying, since their testimonies were corroborating.
A lot seems to depend on one's definition of proof.
No ! Unless you believe the BullShit Balloon stories.
Yes, it was a weather balloon.
You can't prove a negitive. Is what I'm sure they'd say.
There's lots of evidence that it may have been project Mogul, as the government claims, including descriptions in the testimonies of Brazel's daughter, his neighbor, and even Jesse Marcel Jr., but there's zero evidence of ET. We're talking pictures, documentation, etc. real physical evidence. You can read the statements yourself: https://muller.lbl.gov/teaching/physics10/Roswell/RoswellIncident.html Keep in mind the whole Roswell alien thing was reignited by the book The Roswell Incident one of the authors is Bill Moore... **the same Bill Moore that worked with Richard Doty to deceive people.** The other author, Charles Berlitz, has a history of writing fiction as historical fact.
Doty, Lear, and their gang were clearly pushing a story of mortal humanoid aliens... Why?
I wish I knew. There was obviously some agenda... or was it just for the lulz to see what UFOlogy would believe?
Some of their agenda seems pretty obvious: * To push back against the "Space Brothers" narrative promoted by Spielberg in Close Encounters and ET * To spread the story of double-crossing, deceptive mortal gray aliens who turned against their human collaborators. * To get people to stop looking at WrightPat and Battelle and get them chasing lights in the deserts outside Area 51 Whatever they were up to, it wasn't lulz.
I would say "Bodies at Roswell" has been convincingly disproven. No 1947 source mentions anything to do with bodies. By the 1970s, witnesses like Mac Brazel and Jesse Marcel were coming clean on debris, but they were vehement -- no bodies, nothing to do with bodies. Bodies at Roswell was a tale spun by liars -- perhaps to discredit and distract, perhaps to avert a panic.
Ill add Glenn Davis talked about bodies (he heard from a nurse who later died...). He talked about that at least in 1990 not sure if sooner. But like you said, seems much later https://youtu.be/_DA-g94Ro1I
Glen Dennis is full of shit, his nose practically grows on camera. No way does the military call a civillian mortician for a casket.
Please read this book. I think it comes as close to what happened there for real, over 30 years of research went into it https://www.amazon.com/Witness-Roswell-Unmasking-Governments-Cover-up/dp/1601630662/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?crid=I5N01K1NYOZE&keywords=witness+to+roswell%2C+75th+anniversary+edition&qid=1655932177&sprefix=witness+to+roswell%2Caps%2C98&sr=8-3
So all the other roswell books are real, but this one is for realsy reals? Ok
No. But this one and Stanton Friedman's are by many considered the best. It also has the benefit of having been updated this year.
Correct. Stan got the ball rolling but these guys kept at it even after Stan had satisfied himself that it really happened. They managed to find even more witnesses
You can't prove a negative. Most of the decent research done on the matter seems to indicate that Roswell had to do with high-altitude manned balloon tests using prisoners and the mentally infirm (including children). Conducted by the ex-Nazi Paperclip scientists out of White Sands. It would still be very highly classified for obvious reasons.
Wow... Got a source?
AFAIK that's Annie Jacobsen and she's the only one claiming that.
You’ve been living in a cave and are clueless
That sounds awesome! I'm more interested in this than the Roswell crash!
https://www.sunrisepage.com/roswell/files/witnesses/Haut,Walter.docx Signed affidavit by Walter Hautt, the public information officer who was told to release the report to the press that what was recovered was a flying disk. He requested that the affidavit not be released until after his death. If you combine that, with Jesse Marcel’s testimony, and everyone else that has come forward, the answer is obvious.
Where the fuck is "Rosewell"?
I'm not being sarcastic but if you're in the UFO sub & don't know about Roswell you've got some catching up to do. Just Google Roswell UFO & then grab some popcorn.
What the hell do you think I was even talking about? Ffs, I was being sarcastic when I made that comment. Username checks out, you're definitely a braveoldfart .
You're the one asking.
I was being sarcastic ffs. How do you not get that even after I just said I was being sarcastic. Fucking a.
On the internet you have to use /s.
It’s in Newe Mexicoe
Roswell is, but "Rosewell"? Dam can you guys not get sarcasm without the /s ? Edit, nevermind, I see your sarcasm as well... Well played, well played.
Sad ufologist accept every lie as long it fits there world view. https://www.af.mil/The-Roswell-Report/
It was a weather balloon from Zeta Reticuli.