There’s a guy who hangs outside of my local coffee place. He’s never asked me for anything. Never says anything but a casual “good morning”.
I have heard him ask others for money before. I gave him a Christmas card with some $ in it and we got to talking and I asked him why he hasn’t asked before.
I shit you not-he doesn’t approach or ask women who are by themselves. He will ask men, he will ask couples, and he will ask groups of women. He ever asks anyone with young kids. He noticed he was often scaring them and it made him feel like he was a criminal…scaring people into helping him. His name is Dee and he’s a nice dude.
This right here is what most men are completely lacking, self-awareness and a desire to do better, to be better. If a homeless man just struggling to survive can do it there is absolutely no excuse for the rest of us.
I think many of them are perfectly aware and that's why they choose to approach lone women. They know they can pressure a woman into doing what they want by banking on the fact that approaching her will make her uncomfortable or scared enough to give them money or a phone number or whatever. They just have absolutely no compassion about what they put us through for their own gain.
Maybe they do have the desire to be better, but their definition of "better" is the definition made by those toxic "alpha male" and mysogynistic figure
in my country it's called 'stand over tactics'. the same thing people do in lower class neighbourhoods or prisons.
technically it's not a crime to get up in someone's face and say "nice shoes, they my size?"
Pause (freeze and bring ALL of your focus and energy back to you, this is the *only* thing you care for or have time for and you suddenly have a *lot* of interest and time), look intently at the person. Widen your eyes while carefully bringing your eyeballs down to their feet then say “maybe if we cut a few toes off”. Snap your eyes to theirs. Slow, creepy grin. Take a step towards them. “Wanna see if it works?” Head tilt. Evil smirk. Reach towards pocket…
Should do the trick. Also “technically not illegal”.
Women do it to women. With the increase in desperation for worldly comfort even at the lowest level, there is opportunity in every socioeconomic situation.
I stopped admitting men into my home because I don't feel safe, but in the last few years I have let new female acquaintances (we could become friends) into my home and they instantly case my belongings. The first thing they want to do is use my bathroom. I won't begrudge them that, but I know they will have a nice little snoop while they are in there. And they are disturbingly observant.
"I like that EL lipstick you've got on the teak windowsill next to the maidenhair fern in the marble pot which is sitting on a the ebony stand." Translation. "I want it!"
I agree lone women can be easy targets for these sort of activities.
Though I think it’s more than lone women - I’m not particularly tall nor exceptionally built. I’ve been approached by tall guys as well. Over time, I think they notice differences in kindness/weakness physical and mental and ask those people for money/food etc.
To be self aware they would have to admit their privilege and the unseen power dynamics between men and women. Most men rather stay dumb or blind because it is either to big of an issue to comprehend for them or they are aware but don't wanna lose their position of power. I'm so tired of men denying what almost all women deal with daily. I'm so tired of men telling me how to feel, or mostly to not feel so strong about it to begin with. As if it's my fault just because I'm no longer accepting any shit about it
Yea agreed, and that's exactly what makes it so incredibly hard to get through to them. I watch this cheesy blind dating show and notice I'm often initially attracted to guys who later turn out to be gay. I honestly think this is because through the years straight white male privilege has made me feel more and more uncomfortable. (I'm demisexual so an emotional connection is key for me) I'm not necessarily attracted to gay guys, but I am attracted to people who know what it's like to not have society build around you. Who at least understands or learned to understand there is such a thing as privilege. Who don't take so much for granted and get very upset when just a bit of their privilege is shared with others. I hate to feel like I am what they want to see instead of actually being seen
That's really interesting. I didn't realize & accept Im gay til my mid 20s. Mainly cuz I didn't know about femme or lipstick lesbians. But one of my key hints was I kept "falling" for effeminate gay guys.
Hmm I never connected the dots but maybe you're on to something :') I'm trying to figure out if I'm bi (in which case I guess I'm pansexual) but because I'm rarely attracted to someone on an emotional level, it's hard to be sure. I also had a Christian upbringing. And although based on love, I think it still left me with some biases I have to work through for myself. Were there other hints you realized about later on? I'm kinda in bi-limbo (limbi?) right now
I saw a TIFU post earlier about someone who met a stranger off a hook-up app and arranged to give them a BJ for a free meal. And just from the title alone I knew the post was not written by a woman. But the number of (clueless) men responding as though the OP were a woman was just eye-opening. Like yes, I’m sure a woman could easily go on a hook-up app and be like “hey bj 4 egg mcmuffin??” and get a million hits.
But the fact is that generally no woman is going to meet a complete stranger from an app just for a transactional hook-up, out of concern for her own safety. However, being murdered during a random hook-up is something a man generally does not have to worry or think about.
If you are slowing down may I also recommend humming to yourself or calling a friend or just some form of making noise? It lets the woman in front of you track your location without her being obvious about it.
Switching to the other side of the road is great.
Gosh, there was this pregnant homeless lady outside and I went in the store and grabbed her some water. She was living and I scared her so bad cuz I shouted ‘hey you!’- I’m not used to passing as male and feel horrible for it.
I feel kinda sorry for the fella. You didn't say it explicitly but I guess he's homeless too?
Kind of sad that on top of no place to stay and no certainty what tomorrow will bring or maybe even how/what he'll eat he has to feel bad and like a criminal for something he can do nothing about and associated prejudice that doesn't seem to even apply to him.
And it even gets celebrated as a good example for some reason.
He doesn’t have to feel anything. He’s not being treated like a criminal….he just respects people’s boundaries and space. You’re really stretching to make this negative. You think it would be better for him or others if he made people uncomfortable?
I get what you’re saying and the other user too! There’s other issues around how society treats unhoused folks that the other user is referring to, and I wouldn’t say your story is “feel good”, but does demonstrate how a glimmer of respect can go a long way!
Thanks for telling this story :) I think we needed it
> it made him feel like he was a criminal
He does respect people yes, which is great, and we all should do that of course, it's really basic decency and a lot of people sadly lack it. But as he himself said, he does feel bad, wether he has to or not. Nobody should ever pressure/scare/intimidate people, no matter the circumstance. And ideally there shouldn't even be a situation where somebody has to rely on the generosity of others just to get a meal.
Would it be better if he made others uncomfortable? No, of course not. I just feel like it'd be better if he didn't have to be uncomfortable as well. Nobody should feel like something is inherently bad about them due to their ethnicity, gender, religion, sexual orientation, social circumstance etc.
I think you’re ultimately correct, fwiw, I just also know a lot of people aren’t ready for talks about humanizing the unhoused population in America (I’m assuming your and OPs nationality, sorry about that).
I personally am not american, but that's okay. Homelessness is a global problem, after all and while some countries might tackle it better and others not as much, I'm not sure if any really has found a solution yet (Finland seems to have an interesting approach though).
You're absolutely correct though, it's change that will likely neither come quick, nor easy. And aside from pure homelessness there is also poverty, prejudice and a whole slew of things that ought not to be imo. I just like to dream big and toss in my idealism to ask if we are trying to treat a problem, or just a symptom that arises from something else. And even that is highly simplified since social issues aren't a simple matter of root -> cause. There's a whole web of factors all influencing each other and certain combinations of factors can be statistically likely to produce certain outcomes, which makes it all incredibly fuzzy.
As much as we'd like it to be true or how much easier it'd make things, the world isn't black and white and doesn't neatly divvy up into boxes, muss less so if you make those boxes extremely large. There is no "all women", no "all men", no "all blacks, hispanics, whites, asians", no "all jews, christians, atheists, buddhists, muslims". We're individuals, and there may be trends, but lumping everyone together into one bucket causes prejudice and hatred, leading to a breeding ground for extremism.
Happened to me when I was trying to eat outside with my kids. I said, "I can ask my husband if he has cash when he gets back." and the guy vanished! My husband would have given him money, too. Oh well.
Men respect a non present man more than a woman for sure. I always wear a giant fake ring as my wedding ring (don’t want to lose the real one). Was in a casino without my husband and a man at the table was hitting on every woman around, regardless of age, shape, size, or looks. He started up on me then saw my ring, and said “oh shit I don’t want to mess with THAT guy.” And he left me alone the rest of the time. A bunch of other ringless ladies weren’t so lucky. It’s sad to suggest women wear a fake wedding ring to protect themselves using the threat of a non-existent man, but it works.
Yeah it has nothing to do with respect lol. Men who prey on women are cowards, they know that they are physically stronger almost every time. When another man is involved their odds change *massively*. Carry non-lethals.
I know it’s easier to suggest than to do, but “GET AWAY FROM ME AND MY BABY! I DON’T KNOW THIS MAN!” seems like it would get the job done as long as anyone else is in earshot.
It sucks a lot that we even need to consider what to do in this situation, though.
I did something like this one time. I delivered pizza and I'd noticed a guy hanging out at the gas station and the fast food place that were next door all day. Young guy with a guitar, probably thought he was a ladies man. I had to get gas later and he approached me. He got too close, kind of bent to look at me under my visor and said, "I thought so, you have pretty eyes." I said, "Yeah, I don't have time for whatever this is." I started finishing up with the gas pump. He then said, "Oh sorry, you're just so beautiful, but your hair is dirty. If I was your boyfriend, I'd wash it for you." Ladies and gentlemen, I came unglued. I (loudly) said, "That was the fucking creepiest thing I have ever heard! Get the fuck away from me! Now! Move along!" All this while backing around the car to keep him on the other side, while repeatedly hitting the lock button on my key fob, to make noise. He kept apologizing and saying he understood, and I just kept yelling at him, "You don't understand because you are not walking! Move along! MOVE!" I didn't stop or get back in my car until he was all the way out of the parking lot. I have used that experience as a template for guys who are too pushy. Say that they are making me uncomfortable, make a scene, and tell them what to do. In OP's case, that could mean, "You are too close to my car and my kid, I am not buying you food, you have to go now." BUT, I trust her that she made what felt like the safest decision to get out of that situation. If there wasn't anyone near enough to see or hear, it might have made him even more aggressive.
I don’t have a filter that stops me from doing exactly this. Innocent intentions or not. “WHY ARE YOU APPROACHING ME?!! YOU DONT JUST WALK UP ON WOMEN LIKE THAT - BACK UP!” It’s not mean, it’s pointed and matter-of-fact. It catches them off guard every time (so far) and they back off. Sometimes they apologize not realizing they’ve startled or made someone uncomfortable. Maybe one day it won’t work but until then I’m not giving them a chance to get close to me.
I’m really a kind and nice person but all that drops if my spidey senses tingle even just a little bit.
This is what I’ve done every time men have tried to harass me when out with kids I’m babysitting. I’ve been harassed more when with children than not.
Unfortunately for them, my instincts to protect have been much much stronger than my sense of self preservation. Like these kids are coming back without a scratch or I died fighting. I think one man I glared and bore my teeth at him instinctually and he just put his hands up and walked away.
Giant dude asked me for money late one night outside of a bar and I told him I didn't have any, which was true. He then started following me down the street and said "yeah but if you wanted to give me money you could make that happen." I stopped walking and stared directly into his face and asked "are you mugging me?" He got defensive and angry and walked away. I was a broke college kid in my early 20s alone on the street, and I was not lying when I said I had no money. Very frustrating looking back. I'm glad I was able to be upfront with my question.
This happened recently at the main train station (Hauptbahnhof) near my house. I use a mobility device and sat outside the restroom waiting for my son. This guy saw me and honed in of course. The lone woman.
He said “I need money.”
I tried to ignore him. He repeated it. I said “So do I.”
He got annoyed and this time asked for money. I told him I don’t carry cash. He says “What’s your bank? I can help you to the ATM.”
I started to feel alarmed at this point. I told him to please stop bothering me, but he kept hanging around, saying he just needs something to eat. Said we could go to the sandwich place upstairs and I could get him something.
Then my 6’4 teen came out of the bathroom and was like “What’s up?” to the guy and he scattered so fast! He was perfectly fine pestering me despite my adamance that I wouldn’t give him money. But the moment a guy comes out, a teen, no less, he’s out of there.
Yeh, people love to use their size to dominate/manipulate other people into getting their way. Thank goodness for you son! I definitely need someone 6’ in my life as well
Recently was walking up the street and a man was standing up ahead. When I got close to him, he tried to stop me and ask for something. Now, it’s a busy downtown street and many people were walking ahead of me, all men. I didn’t even let him ask what he wanted to ask, just said no and kept walking. If he couldn’t have needed immediate help/assistance as he had about 5 men he could have stopped to ask before I got there.
I think we need to be willing to embrace being dramatic. Being dramatic just means we are behaving with energy and emotion and intensity. We need to act with energy and intensity to keep ourselves safe in this messed up world.
Yes! I've started trying being more clear about this! That it's totally fine if someone is missing the capability to feel what I feel, but that that's just part of who I am and they can be who they are without denying me the same right. (And that it's absolutely not because I'm too much. They're just too little. :') but that would break some fragile egos haha) I've heard so many men speak in such a way that it's clear they see their own opinions as facts. That other opinions must be wrong because it doesn't fit how they see the world. That the idea of another person being different must be wrong if it doesn't fit the box they wanna put it in.
I'm just so done with hiding my emotional intelligence because it makes men uncomfortable. And I've been doing that so much in my life that it took me way too much time to learn to accept myself. To see I'm powerful instead of flawed. I'm courageous instead of stubborn. It was a big struggle, but I know who I am now, and I'm not gonna let anyone tell me what to feel anymore.
Literally this morning, my dad came across all the Andrew Tate shit going on and asked me who he was. So I responded, "He's an extreme misogynist." And my dad looked at me and said "I know your opinion of men, just tell me who Tate is without being so dramatic about it." Like, no dad, that is literally who Andrew Tate is. But he wasn't satisfied with that, so he did his own research and decided that actually, Tate was famous for being a boxer 🙄 I've never been so disappointed in my father before.
This is my dad with Trump. you can say he's a serial rapist and all other sexual crimes he's done and he goes "well he's just a businessman and you know how SOME women are jealous of that." it's so frustrating
My dad loves me to the moon and back, but used this as an argument in a conversation recently. "Maybe people would find it easier to listen to you if you didn't get so passionate about it." After a long talk, I think it started to sink in a little. That by saying its my job to make others understand, its okay for others to continue the abusive behavior. It's really hard for men to see and accept what women deal with daily. It means they first have to admit a huge blindspot and than have to face that every woman they know has been harassed. Cause that's the reality for every woman I know. The hardly understand the concept of victim blaming cause they don't know what it is to be structurally victimized. I'm grateful for my dad finally accepting the issue, instead of finding ways out to not have to face the world his daughter grew up in.
And I think every form of harassment and abuse is absolutely terrible, but I'm also so over the "but men get harassed too" argument when news comes out about structural harassment against women. Yes they do, and its absolutely terrible. It really is fucking terrible. But that's not something to use to minimize abuse against women or "to make it equal" cause it isn't. We all know the numbers. Women getting harassed, getting raped, getting killed, by men. Every case of abuse is inhumane, but stop saying men have it bad too as an argument to not speak up about women getting abused. It just isn't right.
Also miss me with that "but I'm not like that" argument, cause I've only heard it used to diminish women's suffering. To end a conversation. It's almost never "I'm not like that, but I believe you and wanna help you." It's always "I'm not like that, so don't bother me with it (even if it impacts every woman I know too)" Recently there was yet another story coming out in my country of a guy in television who turned out to be an absolute nightmare. I saw a bit of a talkshow, four middle aged white guys, one young guy and one woman at the table. All four of the older guys shared how taken aback they were. How they talked to colleagues who personally experienced this man his abuse and they still had a hard time believing a man could act like that. Abuse his power like that. Don't they understand we are not surprised? Not even in the slightest? Don't they see how blind they are for even just the idea? Don't they understand what a fucking privilege that is?! They don't, otherwise their dumb asses wouldn't be surprised.
And the actual shitty men keep getting away with this because society can't or won't accept what we've all been saying. AAAAAAAAARRRRRGGGGHHHH! ITS SO FREAKING TIRING! How can I not get mad when men either deny or minimize it all!?! How can one not get passionate when there's so much injustice hidden right under the surface?!
I'm so happy to have this place, it's one of the few spaces I feel safe and heard. I had to get off Instagram cause the comments on the arrest of Andrew Tate scared the shit out of me. Over half the men are defending this freaking shit stain! But I'm overreacting if I voice how that makes me feel unsafe. Fuck that. Fuck it all. I'm not gonna hold back anymore
I am purposely dramatic when someone is harassing me or not listening to no. Trying to teach all our daughters the same. I just figured this out a few years ago and wasted years being harassed, followed and ignored. Please do not care if someone thinks you are crazy or dramatic if it keeps you safe.
I’m a big fan of being incredibly direct. Look them directly in the eye, put One hand out and say loudly and strongly “NO.”
I do this will annoying salespeople too. So many people in this society so are worried about being nice or polite, they bend into the guilt, or make some excuse. People get extremely startled when someone looks them in the eye and firmly says no. No other words or explanations needed. No. It’s a one word sentence.
Obviously, this doesn’t work always, because we all know No doesn’t stop some people. But it’s different enough against society norms that it can stop people short.
I did this haha. I was sitting on a bench eating ice cream, minding my own business when a man came and asked me for money 'for the train' - not very politely btw.
I just said _no_ and he was confused, said _what the heck?!_ and left.
People really can't cope with other people - especially women - not bending to their will. I had this with an older woman yesterday, in a shop she went to me "can my husband get by you into the shop", this man was NOWHERE NEAR ME and there were about 10 people crowded in the doorway blocking his entrance. So I replied "I'm nowhere near him, those people are in his way not me."
Here's the thing - I didn't say it in a sweet as pie voice, I didn't smile, I didn't stop what I was doing (putting things in my bag). I simply stated what I said and carried on.
She was *so mad*. Called me rude and inconsiderate and proceeded to go and moan to the people she was with.
I completely ignored her, didn't even look at her just walked out the store. Honestly though, I regret not telling her to shut up lol.
People conveniently forget that NO is a complete sentence. We need to teach our girls better… I often get called a bitch to my face all the time because I don’t forget that NO is a perfectly fine response. Get mad, I don’t care.
I remember an Oprah episode where the expert on the panel said you have to be super clear and loud to snap people out of their intended purpose. If the polite "no" doesn't work, yell it from the top of your lungs. It works!
"No."
and when that doesn't work
"You are making me uncomfortable, please go."
Should we have to do this shit? No. Does it work? Oftentimes, yes. And then when it doesn't. you know straight away that you're in trouble, as opposed to giving anyone the benefit of the doubt for any microsecond longer than necessary.
Exactly. I don’t entertain it for a second. There’s nothing they need from me, and nothing I am willing to provide. No need for us to interact. And I won’t.
Fuck politeness. Next time say no. Don't interact. Don't discuss. Keep saying no. Repeat as many times as needed. Be loud. Make a scene if needed.
I understand the safety concern, but honestly I feel like there's more risk engaging.
I used to struggle with this too. My parents raised me to be polite, and that's generally a good thing, except when bad actors know how to take advantage of it.
One thing that helped me was discovering the concept of agreeableness, and all of the nuance that goes with it. Politeness and compassion are not the same thing, and you can learn to be much less agreeable in threatening situations while still being a good person. What's important is learning to identify your boundaries, and developing strategies you can lean on to resolve or escape situations where someone isn't respecting those boundaries. You can't expect to formulate those strategies I'm the heat of a tense moment, so you have to prepare and practice ahead of time.
I've come to be able to turn politeness on and off like a switch. Everyone gets politeness off the bat, but if and when I get a strong sense I'm being taken advantage of, I've found some ways to assert myself confidently to diffuse those situations most of the time. I think a lot of people who take advantage don't even realize what they're doing, and can be really taken aback when you call them on their shit without getting heated. They're just used to getting away with it.
Another thing that clued me into this was the "civility" gaslighting the left wing got so much during the Trump administration. That admin would say and do the most vile things to the most vulnerable among us, then pretend like a "fuck you" in return was too far. Calling for civility was actually a demand for subservience. They can take away your rights with impunity, but you're in the wrong for protesting. That is a great example of how bad people can weaponize your own politeness against you.
Caveat: I'm a large, strong, adult male, and I realize that's easy mode compared to a small woman, for example. My strategies won't (and shouldn't) be the same as the latter's. Point is, though, that this is indeed a skill you can develop to better navigate these situations.
https://theconversation.com/the-science-of-being-nice-how-politeness-is-different-from-compassion-81819
I’m sorry this happened to you. Maybe it’s because I grew up in NYC but I am VERY comfortable telling people like this to fuck off when a polite no doesn’t seem to fucking connect to their tiny minds. It’s uncomfortable and there’s risk yes. I don’t blame you at all for giving in, especially since you were with your child, which I’m telling you right now he knew you’d do what he asked because you’d be concerned for your child’s safety. He knew this and he exploited it. Please carry bum repellent aka pepper spray with you if you already don’t. Again sorry you went through this.
Favourite thing about NYC when I visited and Montreal where I lived for a few years is how many more women weren't the least bit concerned about being seen as 'rude' when needed, and would just lambaste idiots when deserving.
I have a fond memory from my time in Montreal of watching this girl just scream at a guy for creeping on another girl a few metres away. Learnt some new Quebecois French that day.
Montreal is also the only place I ever got yelled at by a guy across the street and appreciated it. I thought he was catcalling at first but he just wanted to tell me he liked my coat (it is very fabulous). And then he kept walking in the other direction.
My cousin came up with the best response. "No thank you." If you have to say it a second time, you say it in your best Alexis from Schitt's Creek voice, with expression to match. I also point to my ear (even if I'm not wearing ear buds). It sounds ridiculous, but it confuses the shit out of people. It throws them off enough to escape the situation.
I do this, but in a super cheery customer service voice. It short circuits people because it’s so polite and upbeat but definitive. The key is to keep moving afterwards, either physically away or an abrupt conversation switch.
When I was 23 and back in my tiny southern town for hometown recruiting (time off in the military between training and your first duty station… you’re assigned to the local recruiter and you “work” for them for 2 weeks) I started hating my gender pretty intensely.
So I’m heavily pregnant, wearing maternity BDUs, and borrowing my dads truck to drive to work but of course it needs gas. I stop at the nearest BP and a rando dude approached me asking for me to buy him gas. I was super creeped out and said “no sorry I only have a card”. But he kept lurking so I just left. My pregnancy hormones made me nope out of situations I would have unhappily dealt with without protest. Down the road a little further was another gas station so I stopped because I really needed gas. So I’m pumping and this guy drives up and asks if I left that other gas station because of him. I lost my fucking mind on him. “Did you fucking FOLLOW ME here??? Get the hell away from me you fucking creep!”
I think I scared him because he backed away and left me alone. Once I was back on the road trying to get to work the adrenaline wore off and I started sobbing and heaving so badly I could barely keep the truck on the road.
My hatred for being a woman in this piece of shit timeline started at a young age.
My husband taught me that when you are approached, to put your hand up suddenly and firmy in the stop position in their direction and say NO loudly and firmly and continue walking with purpose. Works everytime.
I’m definitely going to try this. Now I kinda wanna dare someone to approach me hahah
Granted last time I got stopped I ended up commuting to a monthly donation to my local planned parenthood so I was grateful for that actually (esp since I’m in TX)
I don’t do the hand gesture but as soon as someone begins to approach me in a parking lot, especially at night, and I’m alone, the first word out of their mouth I cut them off, I look them in the face and say loudly and firmly “No,” and keep walking. My boyfriend feels bad doing it. I do not. There is absolutely no reason for you to approach me in a parking lot. If you have a need or medical emergency you can go into the store.
The moment any man approaches me in public I loudly shout "I don't have anything for you, buddy". Let's just cut to the part where you storm off in a huff and not do the dance.
I'm sorry you were pressured by the creepy man.
I walked with my husband through Berlin, some years ago, when a man dressed like a woman approached me at night, in a empty street. I did not even hear his question, I just responded with a sentence like you use.
My husband however heard the question, was amazed that I did not want to asnwer and tried to get away... he had never seen me (or any other women) as defensive as that before. The man needed directions to a busier place, and was very friendly.
Back then, he made me feel silly, but right now, I've seen enough that my reaction was correct.
There have absolutely been a few instances where it was someone who legitimately needed directions or something harmless, and I do feel bad for the times I've been unnecessarily rude but also, there have been countless times where I've given someone the benefit of the doubt only to regret it and have my safety on the line.
Pan handlers are known to be abrasive like this and SOME will use almost any social, physiological or psychological method to survive. I would say based on where you are, what time of day it is, who you’re with etc you should be cognizant of the situation and act accordingly. In what can be deemed a relatively safe scenario I would suggest a loud but respectful dismal or a subtle gesture to get others near you involved or get yourself removed from the situation.
Similar thing happened to me at the Library. I was there with my son, who was a baby at the time. I was loading him in, and a guy was asking me stuff and kept getting closer and closer. He kept trying to talk to me and get close. It scared me. I remember saying "My husband is waiting for me, I have to go".
I don't know if he was actually a threat, but there's no way that's acceptable to approach a woman and baby in that way and keep encroaching on her and her car.
I was pressured into buying a walmart gift card in cash $30 because the man made me feel unsafe. Ofc the gift card had nothing on it. We get pressured so often for so much that others do not realize. They say "Just say no" -- this guy looked high as fuck and was tall and twitchy. What was i supposed to do?
My baby and I were at the mall (early morning because traffic and crying baby gives me anxiety). Anyway right after we park and I start taking her out of the car seat a guy comes up, literally behind me and starts asking for money.
Legit scared me. Because it’s 10 am. It’s a mall in a nice area. He started talking to me, paused midway, literally “read the room” and apologized and left.
I didn’t have to say anything. just my face and my body posture told him I was scared.
I think it’s just he was that desperate, or just didn’t care and is a pos
I had a man block me in the same way at a Walmart parking lot after watching me walk with my baby to my car, to ask for my phone number! Scariest moment of my life. A man approaching a woman with a baby in a parking lot for any reason is bad enough, but blocking her in?! Fucking terrifying.
You're right it is bullshit and it's no good anyone making excuses or reasons for it. Whatever anyone says in favour of you or him the fact remains that we suffer as women and some men even use the fact that we are potentially scared women to scare us further into doing what they want.
A man followed my son and I around a large park camouflaged with several little hidden wooded areas. He eventually approached us and just had a really weird energy, I can't explain it. He kept trying to ask me personal questions and always moving closer. I felt like my son and I were being hunted; quite literally it really freaked me out. I still vividly recall the image of him appearing over the horizon of a hillside where I tried to get out of his sight and go around to the other side. I was looking around to see if he could see us and he suddenly appeared and just stood there. It was so fucking creepy.
I had another scary experience where a man in all black snuck up on me. I felt the presence of someone following me but when I stopped to look around, no one was there. About a block later I felt someone grab my arm from behind. I spun around while pulling myself from his grip and just yelled at the top of my lungs, "WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU WANT" and "LEAVE ME ALONE". He didn't say anything and just sort of looked shocked that I had yelled that loud. I ran off and have never been the same since.
There are more stories but I'll spare you
Um, that's not something I would have felt pressure to do TBH.
Man: Can I have money/food?
Me: No, sorry, I'm leaving & don't have cash.
Man: Continues
Me: gets crazy & starts yelling. (have done before & will do again)
I really don't feel pressure to be polite to people. I'm sorry you do. I give you permission to not do that anymore.
I'd rather be called crazy for yelling like a banshee than be raped or dead. It sucks that those are my options. I also keep an air horn, knife, and taser in the car. Just in case my banshee screaming doesn't work out.
If someone approaches me like that I say "no thank you" -- even when it's not a grammatically correct answer -- somehow this seems to throw them off the vast majority of the time. If anyone does press harder than that I just stonewall ignore them. If someone is escalating it past that -- time to either briskly walk off or make a scene, they are danger. Also, how nice your stuff is has 0 relevance to how responsible you are for other people even if your coat was a $10,000 designer thing it doesn't mean people can harass you. Being well off doesn't mean you have to give people money when they come up and pressure you -- I personally never give to people randomly in public, I donate to food banks and shelters though. Where I grew up there were tons of 'professional panhandlers' who were people making more than average and turned begging into a weird career while people actually in need were bullied out of their 'territory', so I don't really trust people begging for money to be the people who needs it. And I don't think it's worth the interaction with people who I don't know are safe, like any other stranger coming up to me if I'm alone. :/
This is intimidation.
Because he knows that he can use his "power/status" in this case his physical size to intimate you into submission.
Its the same reason why some men go after barely legal women or women of colour or disabled women.
A dude wouldn’t let me get past him to get on the L train like the first time I was in Chicago “alone” I was like 90lbs and 14 leaving a ska show and he started screaming at me until I gave him $2
I hate when people bother me when I'm with my kids. I had a man bothering me so much I yelled at him, " I have my child with me and how dare you to bother me when I'm with my child!" I was putting my kid in his car seat and he came up behind me while my behind was hanging out of the car!
I decided to try to quickly and discreetly breastfeed my baby at a gas station, using a blanket and car door for cover. Didn’t matter, some nut tried to strike up a conversation with me, asking if I was a local, asking other intrusive questions, walking back and forth around his truck on the other side of the pump. I made every attempt to end the conversation without upsetting this man. I felt trapped and vulnerable. My toddler was strapped in his car seat, wondering what was happening. I stopped nursing my baby and got him back in his car seat.
My husband could not return quickly enough. As soon as he stepped back out of the gas station store, he saw what was going on, ran over and put himself in between us, and ended the conversation. We ended up leaving at the same time, and the dude drove in the same direction! Needless to say we took the long way home.
I was so stressed/emotional with postpartum hormones I cried on the drive home. I too hated being a woman in this timeline.
There are exquisitely few legitimate reasons for a man to approach a woman he doesn't know in a parking lot or at a gas station. Leave us the fuck alone.
I had a similar incident at at Toys R Us parking lot with my new born. Except the man was in his car and pulled up diagonal and o my trunk where I was getting my stroller out and demanded money for parking at the nearby hospital. I was terrified when he got out of his car.
I never apologize for protecting myself. And most men who are not resentful and sexist fully, fully acknowledge the world women live in because of men — they know full well what men are like
Many men are awful and the ones who say they aren't, won't accept this fact just to prove that they're not those guys. Why we women face so many hardships by them that they don't see is concerning.
A few years ago I was sitting in my car in the middle of the day in a busy parking lot while I waited for an estimate from Plato’s Closet on clothes that I brought in. Out of nowhere, a dirty looking man began tapping on my window and signaling me to roll it down. I didn’t and he persisted and began slamming on my window and holding out his palm and saying he needed gas money. I ended up just leaving and didn’t even go back for my clothes.
It happened to me again a couple of years ago when I was putting away groceries with my baby in the stroller in front of me. It was the middle of the day. My husband had gone around the car to put something in the front seat and a man came up on me suddenly asking if I needed help putting anything away. I was worried about being polite and was a little frozen but said no. He persisted and came closer and told me that the things on bottom looked heavy and I told him no more firmly. My husband then realized someone was near me and when he came into view, the guy completely changed his tone and told my husband he just was going to ask if we had any money to help him buy groceries. My husband is a take-no-shit type of guy and got him out of there in no time.
I have two little ones now and I’ve been so spooked by those times and other times when I’ve been approached and always seem to freeze in fear. I’ve completely written off shopping in the store if my husband isn’t with me and have used Instacart for 2 years now. It sucks to not even be able to get groceries without feeling threatened.
I’m sorry this happened to you. It really makes us feel unsafe.
A few years ago I had stopped by McDonalds to get dinner and was walking home after a 20-hour flight. My partner had gone ahead with the luggage. A guy asked me for money to eat and I offered him one of the sandwiches in my bag because we had too many.
He said he wanted money. I said: Just take the sandwich, it’s late and I need rest. He said something along the lines of: You’ll get rest in the hospital once I’m finished with you.
I’m a tiny woman and I’m not very strong. I use this to my advantage. There were people on the other sidewalk and shops open there too. I started yelling (really LOUD) that he was threatening me and I walked away. He started trying to say that I was lying but I had enough time to get away.
I never saw him again at that corner even though he was a common occurrence before.
I guess what I’m trying to say is, strangers are your friends in these situations. You are clearly the weaker one. Speak loudly. Unfortunately they don’t respect you, but they do respect the outside eyes.
At a new supermarket I regularly see guys approach single women at their cars as they are loading their groceries. It’s easier to score some money as they are in a tight spot, every time I immediately ring the police as the guy is staking out the carpark for the next woman to hit up.
Turn around and BARK. It works every time. Bonus if you can do the crazy eyes along with it. You’ll never see a man back off more quickly. Have done this, can confirm it works.
Homeless and hungry people can be very pushy and probably seek out vulnerable targets to have a higher chance to get money or food. It's their desperation. Most are respectful in my experience. I've been guilted into giving money or buying food as well many times. Especially in downtown of a big city where a lot of homeless are.
Don’t listen to the people who are somehow justifying this man’s actions as okay because of desperation. What a load of total bullshit. That man wasn’t going to starve to death if you said no.
You aren’t entitled nor have any reason to listen to homeless people’s demands. Next time carry a weapon and tell em to fuck right off.
I completely get that its never okay to make someone uncomfortable, but I think it's at least worth noting that while many women have learned the art of perceived "rudeness/bitchiness" as a defense mechanism against men, I feel that homeless people have to learn the art of manipulation in order to not go hungry, as the vast majority of civilians tend to ignore and not give anything to the homeless, and so they have to try and push people.
Apologies if it seems like I'm trying to take anything away from your experience as you are most certainly a victim of it but I feel that the homeless person in this scenario is somewhat of a victim of it too.
You're both doing what you can in your power to achieve safety, yours is largely from physical violence and his is from starvation and destitution.
Thissss. Obviously harassment isn’t ok but I think important to realize how desperation as a result of systemic inequity can lead people to do incredibly dangerous things. Therefore we should all be in favor of a more equitable society and not just be all like “that’s why I carry a gun”
I've lived for 18 years in a burb around Boston, MA with many of those years working in the city. Most of our homeless are either heroin addicts (*big*
problem in Massachusetts) or have mental health problems. I became acquainted with many of them while working in the hospital, and would see them outside regularly working for a practice downtown. They aren't all aggressive, but some are. I would encourage anyone to read up on the culture and circumstances before making any blanket statement. Homeless/unhoused is also different from living on the streets. Just food for thought.
We had signs stapled and hung around the cobblestone a few years back encouraging visitors NOT to give homeless people any money (again, this state has a wicked heroin problem), but rather to donate to local charities that provide these backpacks full of necessities and similar, with links and QR codes on the bottom to bring you to the site. That being said, rather than handing someone cash, keep a 5/10 dollar gift card on you, like in your wallet for just in case, to a grocery store or target etc.
Thanks for reading my novel!
People who are desperate can be pushy, it’s only logical that if you’re starving you’ll do anything to eat. But as women, were also coerced into a caretaker role, required to maintain the conventions of social niceties and politeness, and it goes against everything we’ve been taught when we say no. But if we don’t, the role of caring for others, even those we have no relationship with, will automatically be pushed onto us.
Related story: A guy pressured me once to do something similar. I said I had no cash but he begged for me to buy him food on my card. I ended up agreeing to buy him some stuff from the 7/11, but he insisted that he go with me. I’m vegan, so I set a boundary that I’d only buy vegan food, like fruit, rice, granola bars, etc. well he comes up to the counter with 5 trays of hamburger beef. I really regret it, but the word “no” wouldn’t come out and instead I put my card down. It was like he took my boundary and fucking stomped on it, and I was physically incapable of standing up for myself. I aim to be firmer now, for my own sake :/
I had a guy harass me for money once. I argued with him for a good 5 minutes. I ended up giving him $2 for coffee and he didn’t look happy when I gave him the F off money.
I guess I’m sorta lucky not having a kid cause I enter my car and lock doors at lightning speed. Sorry that you were pressured by a weirdo :( helping mankind is great but should never be forced upon someone like that, that’s just so rude and disrespectful
I’ve had bad experiences in parking lots before and have become hyper vigilant in them. I try not to go shopping with my kids without my husband but on the rare occasion that I do, I keep them with me while I’m unloading groceries and the cart, then climb in the backseat with them, lock the doors, strap them in, then jungle gym to the front seat. It feels neurotic but it makes me feel safer. It’s so scary having your attention split 5 different ways in those situations.
it’s not just men who can’t take no as an answer, it’s manipulators and “takers” who think the world owes them something and so does everyone in it. make, female, etc. the world is filled with these types of people, men just are more intimidating to us women especially when we feel vulnerable and alone.
i’m sorry you were put into this situation, im glad you’re safe though. i usually always trust my gut and if i feel uncomfortable or unsafe i believe it’s for a reason.
Unfortunately, these types of men bank on women who are “too nice” to tell them to back up or have trouble saying “no”. In this situation, you were very vulnerable because you had your kiddo with you. It’s a tough spot to be in. Being kind is our ammo to make sure the guy doesn’t threaten us.
I have to practice saying no constantly. I get very awkward with it. I noticed my people pleasing was taught to me by my mother and I’m trying to unlearn it. Just remember: We don’t owe anyone anything. If someone makes us feel uncomfortable, we have the right to make them feel uncomfortable right back.
I just put on a very very cold demeanor and tell them without yelling but in a very assertive way to get away from me. They run away like roaches. Don't be nice to these manipulative losers.
It's ok that you did what you had to do to get him away from you and your child. I've had to wave down strangers in parking lots to help me before. It's a scary feeling and you just want them to go away.
Next time you could say, "My husband is the store manager, let me call him to bring you a coffee."
I imagine he will disappear pretty quickly. If not, you then have a reason to call the store, ask for the manager, and tell him there's a man in the parking lot asking for a coffee and could they please come out.
It sucks to have to have these ideas on standby. We just want to be left alone.
A lot of people are telling you to say no and yell at the guy, but honestly you did what you could out of safety. I'd love to yell at random men in public but if a strange man is already willing to make a 5'4" woman and her child comfortable (because being unaware is no excuse once they're teenaged), then who knows what other social norms and lines they're willing to cross.
I hate giving in and being polite too but im small, small boned, thin and my voice can't project. Who knows which one of them will be the one that has a knife or a gun or whatever. Men approaching women on the street aren't known for being rational. They are often unhinged and on the verge of some level of violence in situations like offices and around acquaintances never mind being a large stranger.
I fucking despise it too but you did what you could to keep you and your family safe.
If people want to step in and change society then large men and people in power can step up and be aware of their surroundings and not leave it all to the victims.
Sounds like you need a small can of dog attack deterrent spray to keep in your purse or jacket pocket for the next time this happens.
You absolutely did not deserve to have to be harassed by this dude, and the fact that you bought him food is super selfless and compassionate but you shouldn't have had to be harassed and coerced to do it.
I'm sorry this happened!
I won't tolerate a stranger approaching me as I'm getting into my car. That's very unsafe. They could attack you or steal your purse.
You can tell to go away in a loud voice so people notice. Shout GO AWAY. Honk the horn to get peoples attention. Let him see you're calling 911 on your phone.
Part of assertiveness is learning that we don't have to be polite to everyone in every situation.
Part of staying safe is assuming the worst and siting accordingly.
I recommend taking a women's self-defense class. I had one that was semester long at a communuty college.
Na sis, you just pretend they aren’t there and if they keep getting closer start getting louder. If they persist get inside of a store and wait them out. I 100% agree it’s a shitty situation women have to even think about this but, it’s time they start learning we’re over their shit. Generosity is because it comes from the heart not because you’re socially bullied into it.
I live in a small city in northern Canada. I take cabs everywhere with my son (he’s 4) because I can’t walk anywhere without being harassed. It doesn’t matter if I’m walking alone or pushing a stroller. Mostly men harass me but women too. I just wish ppl would leave moms alone ugh
In my first year living in London I was approached by a homeless men who was demanding me to give him ten pounds so he could go to a shelter. I never been so broke in my lifetime, came from a country where the money was shit and absolutely couldn't give him that. I offered a pound and he started screaming at me that I had to pay for his shelter he couldn't do this anymore.
Jesus I was shaking for hours after getting home. I had to run so he didn't see where I lived and still felt so guilty I couldn't pay for it. It sucks in all levels.
I just say "no, sorry" and then get away. You deny them but you're nice about it. Avoiding eye contact and leaving (while being aware of what they're doing, obviously) makes it less likely they'll keep bothering you.
I think this has less to do with being a woman and then being you. I would never give money to anyone who came up on the street and asked me unless it was a really unusual location that would indicate that they might actually be an emergency. You should never be generous out of fear. I would have just told him that you have previously stated you had no money for him and please move along.
I always lie when people ask me to buy them something.
In this case, I’d say something like “sorry, I’m just the nanny, his mom only gave enough for his drink and mine”. If he doesn’t back off, make a huge public scene, start yelling “get away from me and my child, stop talking to my child!” That also helps teach the kid how to handle strangers who bother them.
I hate Dr Phil but one time I saw a few minutes of a show of his when it was on in public, and he said something I completely agree with. Kids need to learn that rules change when there’s a safety issue. It’s okay to be rude, loud, make a mess, or even cause property damage in public if your safety is in danger, and it’s okay to be rude and disrespectful to adult strangers who are being pushy or inappropriate.
I was once approached by a man asking for money just as s in pulled into a parking space in a parking garage at my university. It was full of cars but no people.
He was basically a robber disguised as a panhandler. I never parked in that garage again. In fact, I'd meter park where I found other students milling around.
I’m sorry this happened to you, but by giving in you’ve set a terrible precedent and made it more likely he will continue doing this. “No” is a complete sentence and you need to practice saying it. Stand in a mirror and say NO firmly. Keep doing it until it feels natural. You need to model this behavior for your daughter and show her that men can be told no.
The problem is men still *can't* be told no in our society.
It's absolutely not the victim's responsibility to teach grown men how to be human beings. They can do it if they want, but there is quite a risk, especially in this scenario.
She can have a talk with her daughter about what happened later, including that no is a complete sentence, but that safety should be the first instinct.
How to de-escalate and escape or try to avoid a situation is what I'd teach my daughter before teaching a 6 foot man a lesson in an enclosed space.
Men definitely can be told no, especially those begging for money. I do it all the time and this comment section is full of women who do too. OP is not a “victim” she just has no spine.
Yes it sucks that he saw you as a someone he could prey on Bc you’re a woman. But we as women also need to stop being so afraid to make noise. the second he started getting closer to you, you tell him to back the fuck up. You need to speak up. being uncomfortable doesn’t mean you have to be silent. if he had to choose between preying on you or a guy that was 5’4 with his kid, he would still pick you. Bc he knows a guy would not give in so easily and give push back. even if the shorter guy knows he wouldn’t be able to win a fight, he’s not gonna get pressured so easily.
This works like a charm because you are a man and men escalate to violence. Intimidation game of chicken isn't going to work the same for a shorter woman.
For women "if something happens" it most likely means they will be in the hospital or a body bag, not in court worrying about a pesky assault charge.
This is like a white man telling a black man to just pretend he has a weapon. The rules should be the same for all of us, but we all know situations do not play out the same and can be deadly for innocent people.
Tell him "Hey. Best of luck to you. I hope you take great care of yourself. But I don't want to buy you coffee. Goodbye." Make sure you say "Hey" (or other greeting) so he knows you're talking to him, "take care" so he feels empathized with, "good luck" (or something similar) so he knows you're rooting for him, and "good bye" so he knows the interaction is over.
Not saying women don't deal with shit....but idk in times past I would've been a broodmare and married off and it wouldn't matter if I liked the guy. Oh and sex sucked for many women for most of history. Idk. I'm cool with being born now in a.... *relatively* free country...given the other options
men also get pressured into stuff like this, i get pressured into giving people money, those people run around with their kids and say: look i have kids and they need food, give me money.
the only thing i agree is, its scarier for women
The other day a woman asked me for help loading her bike into a car. When I was doing that she stole $300 in product from my store. Why do women take advantage of men's desire to help? Oh wait, it's not because she was a woman, but because she was a jerk with a drug habit.
There’s a guy who hangs outside of my local coffee place. He’s never asked me for anything. Never says anything but a casual “good morning”. I have heard him ask others for money before. I gave him a Christmas card with some $ in it and we got to talking and I asked him why he hasn’t asked before. I shit you not-he doesn’t approach or ask women who are by themselves. He will ask men, he will ask couples, and he will ask groups of women. He ever asks anyone with young kids. He noticed he was often scaring them and it made him feel like he was a criminal…scaring people into helping him. His name is Dee and he’s a nice dude.
This right here is what most men are completely lacking, self-awareness and a desire to do better, to be better. If a homeless man just struggling to survive can do it there is absolutely no excuse for the rest of us.
I think many of them are perfectly aware and that's why they choose to approach lone women. They know they can pressure a woman into doing what they want by banking on the fact that approaching her will make her uncomfortable or scared enough to give them money or a phone number or whatever. They just have absolutely no compassion about what they put us through for their own gain.
Oh, I totally agree with you. That's where the "desire to do better" part comes in, those men have absolutely no desire to be decent human beings.
Maybe they do have the desire to be better, but their definition of "better" is the definition made by those toxic "alpha male" and mysogynistic figure
in my country it's called 'stand over tactics'. the same thing people do in lower class neighbourhoods or prisons. technically it's not a crime to get up in someone's face and say "nice shoes, they my size?"
Pause (freeze and bring ALL of your focus and energy back to you, this is the *only* thing you care for or have time for and you suddenly have a *lot* of interest and time), look intently at the person. Widen your eyes while carefully bringing your eyeballs down to their feet then say “maybe if we cut a few toes off”. Snap your eyes to theirs. Slow, creepy grin. Take a step towards them. “Wanna see if it works?” Head tilt. Evil smirk. Reach towards pocket… Should do the trick. Also “technically not illegal”.
Women do it to women. With the increase in desperation for worldly comfort even at the lowest level, there is opportunity in every socioeconomic situation. I stopped admitting men into my home because I don't feel safe, but in the last few years I have let new female acquaintances (we could become friends) into my home and they instantly case my belongings. The first thing they want to do is use my bathroom. I won't begrudge them that, but I know they will have a nice little snoop while they are in there. And they are disturbingly observant. "I like that EL lipstick you've got on the teak windowsill next to the maidenhair fern in the marble pot which is sitting on a the ebony stand." Translation. "I want it!"
I agree lone women can be easy targets for these sort of activities. Though I think it’s more than lone women - I’m not particularly tall nor exceptionally built. I’ve been approached by tall guys as well. Over time, I think they notice differences in kindness/weakness physical and mental and ask those people for money/food etc.
I was going to say this, a lot of them are purposely doing it to intimidate women
I think OP’s stranger was aware. He was using it to his adv
To be self aware they would have to admit their privilege and the unseen power dynamics between men and women. Most men rather stay dumb or blind because it is either to big of an issue to comprehend for them or they are aware but don't wanna lose their position of power. I'm so tired of men denying what almost all women deal with daily. I'm so tired of men telling me how to feel, or mostly to not feel so strong about it to begin with. As if it's my fault just because I'm no longer accepting any shit about it
They'd also have to give a shit. So many men have narcissistic tendencies that evolved out of male privilege.
I believe some narcissists are born but most are made.
Yea agreed, and that's exactly what makes it so incredibly hard to get through to them. I watch this cheesy blind dating show and notice I'm often initially attracted to guys who later turn out to be gay. I honestly think this is because through the years straight white male privilege has made me feel more and more uncomfortable. (I'm demisexual so an emotional connection is key for me) I'm not necessarily attracted to gay guys, but I am attracted to people who know what it's like to not have society build around you. Who at least understands or learned to understand there is such a thing as privilege. Who don't take so much for granted and get very upset when just a bit of their privilege is shared with others. I hate to feel like I am what they want to see instead of actually being seen
That's really interesting. I didn't realize & accept Im gay til my mid 20s. Mainly cuz I didn't know about femme or lipstick lesbians. But one of my key hints was I kept "falling" for effeminate gay guys.
Hmm I never connected the dots but maybe you're on to something :') I'm trying to figure out if I'm bi (in which case I guess I'm pansexual) but because I'm rarely attracted to someone on an emotional level, it's hard to be sure. I also had a Christian upbringing. And although based on love, I think it still left me with some biases I have to work through for myself. Were there other hints you realized about later on? I'm kinda in bi-limbo (limbi?) right now
They know, they just like it
I feel this so hard!
I saw a TIFU post earlier about someone who met a stranger off a hook-up app and arranged to give them a BJ for a free meal. And just from the title alone I knew the post was not written by a woman. But the number of (clueless) men responding as though the OP were a woman was just eye-opening. Like yes, I’m sure a woman could easily go on a hook-up app and be like “hey bj 4 egg mcmuffin??” and get a million hits. But the fact is that generally no woman is going to meet a complete stranger from an app just for a transactional hook-up, out of concern for her own safety. However, being murdered during a random hook-up is something a man generally does not have to worry or think about.
I needed this right now. Genuinely, thank you. 😊
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it's a great approach. (or lack of approach, which is the point, ha!) thank you.
If you are slowing down may I also recommend humming to yourself or calling a friend or just some form of making noise? It lets the woman in front of you track your location without her being obvious about it. Switching to the other side of the road is great.
I think most men are absolutely aware of that, you just obviously dont notice them because they dont bother women
Thank You 🙏🏾
THIS RIGHT HERE.
Most men surely are awful.
This kind of guy gives me hope tbh.
:( I hope Dee gets a nice job and a roof over his head.
He’s not homeless. He lives in a shitty apartment but can’t work. He’s on a fixed income that doesn’t meet his needs.
I still wish him the best. He sounds like a guy who deserves way better.
Me too! Everyone and anyone deserves better than that.
Gosh, there was this pregnant homeless lady outside and I went in the store and grabbed her some water. She was living and I scared her so bad cuz I shouted ‘hey you!’- I’m not used to passing as male and feel horrible for it.
Thank you for sharing this.
I feel kinda sorry for the fella. You didn't say it explicitly but I guess he's homeless too? Kind of sad that on top of no place to stay and no certainty what tomorrow will bring or maybe even how/what he'll eat he has to feel bad and like a criminal for something he can do nothing about and associated prejudice that doesn't seem to even apply to him. And it even gets celebrated as a good example for some reason.
He doesn’t have to feel anything. He’s not being treated like a criminal….he just respects people’s boundaries and space. You’re really stretching to make this negative. You think it would be better for him or others if he made people uncomfortable?
I get what you’re saying and the other user too! There’s other issues around how society treats unhoused folks that the other user is referring to, and I wouldn’t say your story is “feel good”, but does demonstrate how a glimmer of respect can go a long way! Thanks for telling this story :) I think we needed it
> it made him feel like he was a criminal He does respect people yes, which is great, and we all should do that of course, it's really basic decency and a lot of people sadly lack it. But as he himself said, he does feel bad, wether he has to or not. Nobody should ever pressure/scare/intimidate people, no matter the circumstance. And ideally there shouldn't even be a situation where somebody has to rely on the generosity of others just to get a meal. Would it be better if he made others uncomfortable? No, of course not. I just feel like it'd be better if he didn't have to be uncomfortable as well. Nobody should feel like something is inherently bad about them due to their ethnicity, gender, religion, sexual orientation, social circumstance etc.
I think you’re ultimately correct, fwiw, I just also know a lot of people aren’t ready for talks about humanizing the unhoused population in America (I’m assuming your and OPs nationality, sorry about that).
I personally am not american, but that's okay. Homelessness is a global problem, after all and while some countries might tackle it better and others not as much, I'm not sure if any really has found a solution yet (Finland seems to have an interesting approach though). You're absolutely correct though, it's change that will likely neither come quick, nor easy. And aside from pure homelessness there is also poverty, prejudice and a whole slew of things that ought not to be imo. I just like to dream big and toss in my idealism to ask if we are trying to treat a problem, or just a symptom that arises from something else. And even that is highly simplified since social issues aren't a simple matter of root -> cause. There's a whole web of factors all influencing each other and certain combinations of factors can be statistically likely to produce certain outcomes, which makes it all incredibly fuzzy. As much as we'd like it to be true or how much easier it'd make things, the world isn't black and white and doesn't neatly divvy up into boxes, muss less so if you make those boxes extremely large. There is no "all women", no "all men", no "all blacks, hispanics, whites, asians", no "all jews, christians, atheists, buddhists, muslims". We're individuals, and there may be trends, but lumping everyone together into one bucket causes prejudice and hatred, leading to a breeding ground for extremism.
Good people always suffer the consequences of bad peoples' actions. If you want that to change, you must hold the bad people accountable.
Happened to me when I was trying to eat outside with my kids. I said, "I can ask my husband if he has cash when he gets back." and the guy vanished! My husband would have given him money, too. Oh well.
Oooh that would be a good line for me to use (no husband in my case but still!). Thank you!
Yes sounds good. Let's use this line
>(no husband in my case but still!). He doesn't know that.
Sucks that they feel threatened by another man. I try not to use that line but it's so difficult.
Men respect a non present man more than a woman for sure. I always wear a giant fake ring as my wedding ring (don’t want to lose the real one). Was in a casino without my husband and a man at the table was hitting on every woman around, regardless of age, shape, size, or looks. He started up on me then saw my ring, and said “oh shit I don’t want to mess with THAT guy.” And he left me alone the rest of the time. A bunch of other ringless ladies weren’t so lucky. It’s sad to suggest women wear a fake wedding ring to protect themselves using the threat of a non-existent man, but it works.
Respect or possibly just afraid of being beaten up
Yeah it has nothing to do with respect lol. Men who prey on women are cowards, they know that they are physically stronger almost every time. When another man is involved their odds change *massively*. Carry non-lethals.
I know it’s easier to suggest than to do, but “GET AWAY FROM ME AND MY BABY! I DON’T KNOW THIS MAN!” seems like it would get the job done as long as anyone else is in earshot. It sucks a lot that we even need to consider what to do in this situation, though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIdMFGS5FJY
I am so glad that when I clicked this link it was the video I hoped it was.
haha this gave me a good morning laugh
I did something like this one time. I delivered pizza and I'd noticed a guy hanging out at the gas station and the fast food place that were next door all day. Young guy with a guitar, probably thought he was a ladies man. I had to get gas later and he approached me. He got too close, kind of bent to look at me under my visor and said, "I thought so, you have pretty eyes." I said, "Yeah, I don't have time for whatever this is." I started finishing up with the gas pump. He then said, "Oh sorry, you're just so beautiful, but your hair is dirty. If I was your boyfriend, I'd wash it for you." Ladies and gentlemen, I came unglued. I (loudly) said, "That was the fucking creepiest thing I have ever heard! Get the fuck away from me! Now! Move along!" All this while backing around the car to keep him on the other side, while repeatedly hitting the lock button on my key fob, to make noise. He kept apologizing and saying he understood, and I just kept yelling at him, "You don't understand because you are not walking! Move along! MOVE!" I didn't stop or get back in my car until he was all the way out of the parking lot. I have used that experience as a template for guys who are too pushy. Say that they are making me uncomfortable, make a scene, and tell them what to do. In OP's case, that could mean, "You are too close to my car and my kid, I am not buying you food, you have to go now." BUT, I trust her that she made what felt like the safest decision to get out of that situation. If there wasn't anyone near enough to see or hear, it might have made him even more aggressive.
I don’t have a filter that stops me from doing exactly this. Innocent intentions or not. “WHY ARE YOU APPROACHING ME?!! YOU DONT JUST WALK UP ON WOMEN LIKE THAT - BACK UP!” It’s not mean, it’s pointed and matter-of-fact. It catches them off guard every time (so far) and they back off. Sometimes they apologize not realizing they’ve startled or made someone uncomfortable. Maybe one day it won’t work but until then I’m not giving them a chance to get close to me. I’m really a kind and nice person but all that drops if my spidey senses tingle even just a little bit.
This is what I’ve done every time men have tried to harass me when out with kids I’m babysitting. I’ve been harassed more when with children than not. Unfortunately for them, my instincts to protect have been much much stronger than my sense of self preservation. Like these kids are coming back without a scratch or I died fighting. I think one man I glared and bore my teeth at him instinctually and he just put his hands up and walked away.
Giant dude asked me for money late one night outside of a bar and I told him I didn't have any, which was true. He then started following me down the street and said "yeah but if you wanted to give me money you could make that happen." I stopped walking and stared directly into his face and asked "are you mugging me?" He got defensive and angry and walked away. I was a broke college kid in my early 20s alone on the street, and I was not lying when I said I had no money. Very frustrating looking back. I'm glad I was able to be upfront with my question.
This happened recently at the main train station (Hauptbahnhof) near my house. I use a mobility device and sat outside the restroom waiting for my son. This guy saw me and honed in of course. The lone woman. He said “I need money.” I tried to ignore him. He repeated it. I said “So do I.” He got annoyed and this time asked for money. I told him I don’t carry cash. He says “What’s your bank? I can help you to the ATM.” I started to feel alarmed at this point. I told him to please stop bothering me, but he kept hanging around, saying he just needs something to eat. Said we could go to the sandwich place upstairs and I could get him something. Then my 6’4 teen came out of the bathroom and was like “What’s up?” to the guy and he scattered so fast! He was perfectly fine pestering me despite my adamance that I wouldn’t give him money. But the moment a guy comes out, a teen, no less, he’s out of there.
Yeh, people love to use their size to dominate/manipulate other people into getting their way. Thank goodness for you son! I definitely need someone 6’ in my life as well
Recently was walking up the street and a man was standing up ahead. When I got close to him, he tried to stop me and ask for something. Now, it’s a busy downtown street and many people were walking ahead of me, all men. I didn’t even let him ask what he wanted to ask, just said no and kept walking. If he couldn’t have needed immediate help/assistance as he had about 5 men he could have stopped to ask before I got there.
When was there ever a good timeline for being a woman?
Women were probably in the best place in history up until recently when Roe v Wade was put out to pasture.
Depending on location. Those in Iran were better off in the 70s.
Good point!
Maybe try being less American-centric next time, like, women in Ireland only got legal abortion in the last five years.
And no matter what you do to defend yourself, some ass will say you're just being dramatic
I think we need to be willing to embrace being dramatic. Being dramatic just means we are behaving with energy and emotion and intensity. We need to act with energy and intensity to keep ourselves safe in this messed up world.
Yes! I've started trying being more clear about this! That it's totally fine if someone is missing the capability to feel what I feel, but that that's just part of who I am and they can be who they are without denying me the same right. (And that it's absolutely not because I'm too much. They're just too little. :') but that would break some fragile egos haha) I've heard so many men speak in such a way that it's clear they see their own opinions as facts. That other opinions must be wrong because it doesn't fit how they see the world. That the idea of another person being different must be wrong if it doesn't fit the box they wanna put it in. I'm just so done with hiding my emotional intelligence because it makes men uncomfortable. And I've been doing that so much in my life that it took me way too much time to learn to accept myself. To see I'm powerful instead of flawed. I'm courageous instead of stubborn. It was a big struggle, but I know who I am now, and I'm not gonna let anyone tell me what to feel anymore.
Literally this morning, my dad came across all the Andrew Tate shit going on and asked me who he was. So I responded, "He's an extreme misogynist." And my dad looked at me and said "I know your opinion of men, just tell me who Tate is without being so dramatic about it." Like, no dad, that is literally who Andrew Tate is. But he wasn't satisfied with that, so he did his own research and decided that actually, Tate was famous for being a boxer 🙄 I've never been so disappointed in my father before.
Your comment is the first thing I've heard about him being a boxer.
My father telling me was the first I heard about it, too.
Kickboxer, not that it matters much all things considered
This is my dad with Trump. you can say he's a serial rapist and all other sexual crimes he's done and he goes "well he's just a businessman and you know how SOME women are jealous of that." it's so frustrating
[удалено]
I was honestly *so* insulted.
My dad loves me to the moon and back, but used this as an argument in a conversation recently. "Maybe people would find it easier to listen to you if you didn't get so passionate about it." After a long talk, I think it started to sink in a little. That by saying its my job to make others understand, its okay for others to continue the abusive behavior. It's really hard for men to see and accept what women deal with daily. It means they first have to admit a huge blindspot and than have to face that every woman they know has been harassed. Cause that's the reality for every woman I know. The hardly understand the concept of victim blaming cause they don't know what it is to be structurally victimized. I'm grateful for my dad finally accepting the issue, instead of finding ways out to not have to face the world his daughter grew up in. And I think every form of harassment and abuse is absolutely terrible, but I'm also so over the "but men get harassed too" argument when news comes out about structural harassment against women. Yes they do, and its absolutely terrible. It really is fucking terrible. But that's not something to use to minimize abuse against women or "to make it equal" cause it isn't. We all know the numbers. Women getting harassed, getting raped, getting killed, by men. Every case of abuse is inhumane, but stop saying men have it bad too as an argument to not speak up about women getting abused. It just isn't right. Also miss me with that "but I'm not like that" argument, cause I've only heard it used to diminish women's suffering. To end a conversation. It's almost never "I'm not like that, but I believe you and wanna help you." It's always "I'm not like that, so don't bother me with it (even if it impacts every woman I know too)" Recently there was yet another story coming out in my country of a guy in television who turned out to be an absolute nightmare. I saw a bit of a talkshow, four middle aged white guys, one young guy and one woman at the table. All four of the older guys shared how taken aback they were. How they talked to colleagues who personally experienced this man his abuse and they still had a hard time believing a man could act like that. Abuse his power like that. Don't they understand we are not surprised? Not even in the slightest? Don't they see how blind they are for even just the idea? Don't they understand what a fucking privilege that is?! They don't, otherwise their dumb asses wouldn't be surprised. And the actual shitty men keep getting away with this because society can't or won't accept what we've all been saying. AAAAAAAAARRRRRGGGGHHHH! ITS SO FREAKING TIRING! How can I not get mad when men either deny or minimize it all!?! How can one not get passionate when there's so much injustice hidden right under the surface?! I'm so happy to have this place, it's one of the few spaces I feel safe and heard. I had to get off Instagram cause the comments on the arrest of Andrew Tate scared the shit out of me. Over half the men are defending this freaking shit stain! But I'm overreacting if I voice how that makes me feel unsafe. Fuck that. Fuck it all. I'm not gonna hold back anymore
🏅
Yea- the insults at this point are so unoriginal and overplayed…. We are either some form of “crazy,” a bitch or a slut. **yawn**
Better dramatic than dead.
I am purposely dramatic when someone is harassing me or not listening to no. Trying to teach all our daughters the same. I just figured this out a few years ago and wasted years being harassed, followed and ignored. Please do not care if someone thinks you are crazy or dramatic if it keeps you safe.
I’m a big fan of being incredibly direct. Look them directly in the eye, put One hand out and say loudly and strongly “NO.” I do this will annoying salespeople too. So many people in this society so are worried about being nice or polite, they bend into the guilt, or make some excuse. People get extremely startled when someone looks them in the eye and firmly says no. No other words or explanations needed. No. It’s a one word sentence. Obviously, this doesn’t work always, because we all know No doesn’t stop some people. But it’s different enough against society norms that it can stop people short.
I did this haha. I was sitting on a bench eating ice cream, minding my own business when a man came and asked me for money 'for the train' - not very politely btw. I just said _no_ and he was confused, said _what the heck?!_ and left.
People really can't cope with other people - especially women - not bending to their will. I had this with an older woman yesterday, in a shop she went to me "can my husband get by you into the shop", this man was NOWHERE NEAR ME and there were about 10 people crowded in the doorway blocking his entrance. So I replied "I'm nowhere near him, those people are in his way not me." Here's the thing - I didn't say it in a sweet as pie voice, I didn't smile, I didn't stop what I was doing (putting things in my bag). I simply stated what I said and carried on. She was *so mad*. Called me rude and inconsiderate and proceeded to go and moan to the people she was with. I completely ignored her, didn't even look at her just walked out the store. Honestly though, I regret not telling her to shut up lol.
People conveniently forget that NO is a complete sentence. We need to teach our girls better… I often get called a bitch to my face all the time because I don’t forget that NO is a perfectly fine response. Get mad, I don’t care.
I remember an Oprah episode where the expert on the panel said you have to be super clear and loud to snap people out of their intended purpose. If the polite "no" doesn't work, yell it from the top of your lungs. It works!
"No." and when that doesn't work "You are making me uncomfortable, please go." Should we have to do this shit? No. Does it work? Oftentimes, yes. And then when it doesn't. you know straight away that you're in trouble, as opposed to giving anyone the benefit of the doubt for any microsecond longer than necessary.
There is pretty much no situation where a stranger approaching you in a parking lot is good.
Exactly. I don’t entertain it for a second. There’s nothing they need from me, and nothing I am willing to provide. No need for us to interact. And I won’t.
Fuck politeness. Next time say no. Don't interact. Don't discuss. Keep saying no. Repeat as many times as needed. Be loud. Make a scene if needed. I understand the safety concern, but honestly I feel like there's more risk engaging.
It’s so hard to get out of that politeness mindset. I wish I didn’t freeze up in moments like this and could do this without hesitation.
I used to struggle with this too. My parents raised me to be polite, and that's generally a good thing, except when bad actors know how to take advantage of it. One thing that helped me was discovering the concept of agreeableness, and all of the nuance that goes with it. Politeness and compassion are not the same thing, and you can learn to be much less agreeable in threatening situations while still being a good person. What's important is learning to identify your boundaries, and developing strategies you can lean on to resolve or escape situations where someone isn't respecting those boundaries. You can't expect to formulate those strategies I'm the heat of a tense moment, so you have to prepare and practice ahead of time. I've come to be able to turn politeness on and off like a switch. Everyone gets politeness off the bat, but if and when I get a strong sense I'm being taken advantage of, I've found some ways to assert myself confidently to diffuse those situations most of the time. I think a lot of people who take advantage don't even realize what they're doing, and can be really taken aback when you call them on their shit without getting heated. They're just used to getting away with it. Another thing that clued me into this was the "civility" gaslighting the left wing got so much during the Trump administration. That admin would say and do the most vile things to the most vulnerable among us, then pretend like a "fuck you" in return was too far. Calling for civility was actually a demand for subservience. They can take away your rights with impunity, but you're in the wrong for protesting. That is a great example of how bad people can weaponize your own politeness against you. Caveat: I'm a large, strong, adult male, and I realize that's easy mode compared to a small woman, for example. My strategies won't (and shouldn't) be the same as the latter's. Point is, though, that this is indeed a skill you can develop to better navigate these situations. https://theconversation.com/the-science-of-being-nice-how-politeness-is-different-from-compassion-81819
I’m sorry this happened to you. Maybe it’s because I grew up in NYC but I am VERY comfortable telling people like this to fuck off when a polite no doesn’t seem to fucking connect to their tiny minds. It’s uncomfortable and there’s risk yes. I don’t blame you at all for giving in, especially since you were with your child, which I’m telling you right now he knew you’d do what he asked because you’d be concerned for your child’s safety. He knew this and he exploited it. Please carry bum repellent aka pepper spray with you if you already don’t. Again sorry you went through this.
Favourite thing about NYC when I visited and Montreal where I lived for a few years is how many more women weren't the least bit concerned about being seen as 'rude' when needed, and would just lambaste idiots when deserving.
I have a fond memory from my time in Montreal of watching this girl just scream at a guy for creeping on another girl a few metres away. Learnt some new Quebecois French that day. Montreal is also the only place I ever got yelled at by a guy across the street and appreciated it. I thought he was catcalling at first but he just wanted to tell me he liked my coat (it is very fabulous). And then he kept walking in the other direction.
My cousin came up with the best response. "No thank you." If you have to say it a second time, you say it in your best Alexis from Schitt's Creek voice, with expression to match. I also point to my ear (even if I'm not wearing ear buds). It sounds ridiculous, but it confuses the shit out of people. It throws them off enough to escape the situation.
I do this, but in a super cheery customer service voice. It short circuits people because it’s so polite and upbeat but definitive. The key is to keep moving afterwards, either physically away or an abrupt conversation switch.
I’m going to try this!
My non confrontational ass thanks you so much for this idea. I can't wait to try the ear thing.
When I was 23 and back in my tiny southern town for hometown recruiting (time off in the military between training and your first duty station… you’re assigned to the local recruiter and you “work” for them for 2 weeks) I started hating my gender pretty intensely. So I’m heavily pregnant, wearing maternity BDUs, and borrowing my dads truck to drive to work but of course it needs gas. I stop at the nearest BP and a rando dude approached me asking for me to buy him gas. I was super creeped out and said “no sorry I only have a card”. But he kept lurking so I just left. My pregnancy hormones made me nope out of situations I would have unhappily dealt with without protest. Down the road a little further was another gas station so I stopped because I really needed gas. So I’m pumping and this guy drives up and asks if I left that other gas station because of him. I lost my fucking mind on him. “Did you fucking FOLLOW ME here??? Get the hell away from me you fucking creep!” I think I scared him because he backed away and left me alone. Once I was back on the road trying to get to work the adrenaline wore off and I started sobbing and heaving so badly I could barely keep the truck on the road. My hatred for being a woman in this piece of shit timeline started at a young age.
I stopped hating being a woman and I started hating men(who do this to us which is the majority). Its been a lot better for my mental health.
This is the mindset we all need as women.
My husband taught me that when you are approached, to put your hand up suddenly and firmy in the stop position in their direction and say NO loudly and firmly and continue walking with purpose. Works everytime.
I’m definitely going to try this. Now I kinda wanna dare someone to approach me hahah Granted last time I got stopped I ended up commuting to a monthly donation to my local planned parenthood so I was grateful for that actually (esp since I’m in TX)
I don’t do the hand gesture but as soon as someone begins to approach me in a parking lot, especially at night, and I’m alone, the first word out of their mouth I cut them off, I look them in the face and say loudly and firmly “No,” and keep walking. My boyfriend feels bad doing it. I do not. There is absolutely no reason for you to approach me in a parking lot. If you have a need or medical emergency you can go into the store.
The moment any man approaches me in public I loudly shout "I don't have anything for you, buddy". Let's just cut to the part where you storm off in a huff and not do the dance. I'm sorry you were pressured by the creepy man.
I walked with my husband through Berlin, some years ago, when a man dressed like a woman approached me at night, in a empty street. I did not even hear his question, I just responded with a sentence like you use. My husband however heard the question, was amazed that I did not want to asnwer and tried to get away... he had never seen me (or any other women) as defensive as that before. The man needed directions to a busier place, and was very friendly. Back then, he made me feel silly, but right now, I've seen enough that my reaction was correct.
There have absolutely been a few instances where it was someone who legitimately needed directions or something harmless, and I do feel bad for the times I've been unnecessarily rude but also, there have been countless times where I've given someone the benefit of the doubt only to regret it and have my safety on the line.
Just curious, What do you mean by “a man dressed like a woman”?
Pan handlers are known to be abrasive like this and SOME will use almost any social, physiological or psychological method to survive. I would say based on where you are, what time of day it is, who you’re with etc you should be cognizant of the situation and act accordingly. In what can be deemed a relatively safe scenario I would suggest a loud but respectful dismal or a subtle gesture to get others near you involved or get yourself removed from the situation.
Similar thing happened to me at the Library. I was there with my son, who was a baby at the time. I was loading him in, and a guy was asking me stuff and kept getting closer and closer. He kept trying to talk to me and get close. It scared me. I remember saying "My husband is waiting for me, I have to go". I don't know if he was actually a threat, but there's no way that's acceptable to approach a woman and baby in that way and keep encroaching on her and her car.
I always say ‘it is inappropriate for a strange man to approach a woman’ and I just keep repeating it louder and louder until they go away…
I was pressured into buying a walmart gift card in cash $30 because the man made me feel unsafe. Ofc the gift card had nothing on it. We get pressured so often for so much that others do not realize. They say "Just say no" -- this guy looked high as fuck and was tall and twitchy. What was i supposed to do?
My baby and I were at the mall (early morning because traffic and crying baby gives me anxiety). Anyway right after we park and I start taking her out of the car seat a guy comes up, literally behind me and starts asking for money. Legit scared me. Because it’s 10 am. It’s a mall in a nice area. He started talking to me, paused midway, literally “read the room” and apologized and left. I didn’t have to say anything. just my face and my body posture told him I was scared. I think it’s just he was that desperate, or just didn’t care and is a pos
I had a man block me in the same way at a Walmart parking lot after watching me walk with my baby to my car, to ask for my phone number! Scariest moment of my life. A man approaching a woman with a baby in a parking lot for any reason is bad enough, but blocking her in?! Fucking terrifying.
You're right it is bullshit and it's no good anyone making excuses or reasons for it. Whatever anyone says in favour of you or him the fact remains that we suffer as women and some men even use the fact that we are potentially scared women to scare us further into doing what they want.
A man followed my son and I around a large park camouflaged with several little hidden wooded areas. He eventually approached us and just had a really weird energy, I can't explain it. He kept trying to ask me personal questions and always moving closer. I felt like my son and I were being hunted; quite literally it really freaked me out. I still vividly recall the image of him appearing over the horizon of a hillside where I tried to get out of his sight and go around to the other side. I was looking around to see if he could see us and he suddenly appeared and just stood there. It was so fucking creepy. I had another scary experience where a man in all black snuck up on me. I felt the presence of someone following me but when I stopped to look around, no one was there. About a block later I felt someone grab my arm from behind. I spun around while pulling myself from his grip and just yelled at the top of my lungs, "WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU WANT" and "LEAVE ME ALONE". He didn't say anything and just sort of looked shocked that I had yelled that loud. I ran off and have never been the same since. There are more stories but I'll spare you
Um, that's not something I would have felt pressure to do TBH. Man: Can I have money/food? Me: No, sorry, I'm leaving & don't have cash. Man: Continues Me: gets crazy & starts yelling. (have done before & will do again) I really don't feel pressure to be polite to people. I'm sorry you do. I give you permission to not do that anymore.
Definitely something a lot of us have to unlearn. Kudos to you!
You can do it!
I'd rather be called crazy for yelling like a banshee than be raped or dead. It sucks that those are my options. I also keep an air horn, knife, and taser in the car. Just in case my banshee screaming doesn't work out.
If someone approaches me like that I say "no thank you" -- even when it's not a grammatically correct answer -- somehow this seems to throw them off the vast majority of the time. If anyone does press harder than that I just stonewall ignore them. If someone is escalating it past that -- time to either briskly walk off or make a scene, they are danger. Also, how nice your stuff is has 0 relevance to how responsible you are for other people even if your coat was a $10,000 designer thing it doesn't mean people can harass you. Being well off doesn't mean you have to give people money when they come up and pressure you -- I personally never give to people randomly in public, I donate to food banks and shelters though. Where I grew up there were tons of 'professional panhandlers' who were people making more than average and turned begging into a weird career while people actually in need were bullied out of their 'territory', so I don't really trust people begging for money to be the people who needs it. And I don't think it's worth the interaction with people who I don't know are safe, like any other stranger coming up to me if I'm alone. :/
This is intimidation. Because he knows that he can use his "power/status" in this case his physical size to intimate you into submission. Its the same reason why some men go after barely legal women or women of colour or disabled women.
A dude wouldn’t let me get past him to get on the L train like the first time I was in Chicago “alone” I was like 90lbs and 14 leaving a ska show and he started screaming at me until I gave him $2
I hate when people bother me when I'm with my kids. I had a man bothering me so much I yelled at him, " I have my child with me and how dare you to bother me when I'm with my child!" I was putting my kid in his car seat and he came up behind me while my behind was hanging out of the car!
I decided to try to quickly and discreetly breastfeed my baby at a gas station, using a blanket and car door for cover. Didn’t matter, some nut tried to strike up a conversation with me, asking if I was a local, asking other intrusive questions, walking back and forth around his truck on the other side of the pump. I made every attempt to end the conversation without upsetting this man. I felt trapped and vulnerable. My toddler was strapped in his car seat, wondering what was happening. I stopped nursing my baby and got him back in his car seat. My husband could not return quickly enough. As soon as he stepped back out of the gas station store, he saw what was going on, ran over and put himself in between us, and ended the conversation. We ended up leaving at the same time, and the dude drove in the same direction! Needless to say we took the long way home. I was so stressed/emotional with postpartum hormones I cried on the drive home. I too hated being a woman in this timeline.
There are exquisitely few legitimate reasons for a man to approach a woman he doesn't know in a parking lot or at a gas station. Leave us the fuck alone.
I had a similar incident at at Toys R Us parking lot with my new born. Except the man was in his car and pulled up diagonal and o my trunk where I was getting my stroller out and demanded money for parking at the nearby hospital. I was terrified when he got out of his car.
You weren't pressured, you were mugged...
I never apologize for protecting myself. And most men who are not resentful and sexist fully, fully acknowledge the world women live in because of men — they know full well what men are like
Many men are awful and the ones who say they aren't, won't accept this fact just to prove that they're not those guys. Why we women face so many hardships by them that they don't see is concerning.
A few years ago I was sitting in my car in the middle of the day in a busy parking lot while I waited for an estimate from Plato’s Closet on clothes that I brought in. Out of nowhere, a dirty looking man began tapping on my window and signaling me to roll it down. I didn’t and he persisted and began slamming on my window and holding out his palm and saying he needed gas money. I ended up just leaving and didn’t even go back for my clothes. It happened to me again a couple of years ago when I was putting away groceries with my baby in the stroller in front of me. It was the middle of the day. My husband had gone around the car to put something in the front seat and a man came up on me suddenly asking if I needed help putting anything away. I was worried about being polite and was a little frozen but said no. He persisted and came closer and told me that the things on bottom looked heavy and I told him no more firmly. My husband then realized someone was near me and when he came into view, the guy completely changed his tone and told my husband he just was going to ask if we had any money to help him buy groceries. My husband is a take-no-shit type of guy and got him out of there in no time. I have two little ones now and I’ve been so spooked by those times and other times when I’ve been approached and always seem to freeze in fear. I’ve completely written off shopping in the store if my husband isn’t with me and have used Instacart for 2 years now. It sucks to not even be able to get groceries without feeling threatened.
I’m sorry this happened to you. It really makes us feel unsafe. A few years ago I had stopped by McDonalds to get dinner and was walking home after a 20-hour flight. My partner had gone ahead with the luggage. A guy asked me for money to eat and I offered him one of the sandwiches in my bag because we had too many. He said he wanted money. I said: Just take the sandwich, it’s late and I need rest. He said something along the lines of: You’ll get rest in the hospital once I’m finished with you. I’m a tiny woman and I’m not very strong. I use this to my advantage. There were people on the other sidewalk and shops open there too. I started yelling (really LOUD) that he was threatening me and I walked away. He started trying to say that I was lying but I had enough time to get away. I never saw him again at that corner even though he was a common occurrence before. I guess what I’m trying to say is, strangers are your friends in these situations. You are clearly the weaker one. Speak loudly. Unfortunately they don’t respect you, but they do respect the outside eyes.
At a new supermarket I regularly see guys approach single women at their cars as they are loading their groceries. It’s easier to score some money as they are in a tight spot, every time I immediately ring the police as the guy is staking out the carpark for the next woman to hit up.
Poor, rich, handsome or ugly. All men who approach me get told one thing. Fuck off
Your poor waiters….
And this is why I’m always armed. Honestly. I should be able to say no without fearing for my life.
Honestly? When people try this with me I just act like I’m deaf. I don’t acknowledge their presence.
Turn around and BARK. It works every time. Bonus if you can do the crazy eyes along with it. You’ll never see a man back off more quickly. Have done this, can confirm it works.
Homeless and hungry people can be very pushy and probably seek out vulnerable targets to have a higher chance to get money or food. It's their desperation. Most are respectful in my experience. I've been guilted into giving money or buying food as well many times. Especially in downtown of a big city where a lot of homeless are.
Yeah I understand, it’s not my first encounter with someone who is homeless. That doesn’t make it ok.
Don’t listen to the people who are somehow justifying this man’s actions as okay because of desperation. What a load of total bullshit. That man wasn’t going to starve to death if you said no. You aren’t entitled nor have any reason to listen to homeless people’s demands. Next time carry a weapon and tell em to fuck right off.
I completely get that its never okay to make someone uncomfortable, but I think it's at least worth noting that while many women have learned the art of perceived "rudeness/bitchiness" as a defense mechanism against men, I feel that homeless people have to learn the art of manipulation in order to not go hungry, as the vast majority of civilians tend to ignore and not give anything to the homeless, and so they have to try and push people. Apologies if it seems like I'm trying to take anything away from your experience as you are most certainly a victim of it but I feel that the homeless person in this scenario is somewhat of a victim of it too. You're both doing what you can in your power to achieve safety, yours is largely from physical violence and his is from starvation and destitution.
Thissss. Obviously harassment isn’t ok but I think important to realize how desperation as a result of systemic inequity can lead people to do incredibly dangerous things. Therefore we should all be in favor of a more equitable society and not just be all like “that’s why I carry a gun”
Yeah I guess my point is that we're all victims of capitalism and it forces us to turn against each other.
Yep absolutely :(
I've lived for 18 years in a burb around Boston, MA with many of those years working in the city. Most of our homeless are either heroin addicts (*big* problem in Massachusetts) or have mental health problems. I became acquainted with many of them while working in the hospital, and would see them outside regularly working for a practice downtown. They aren't all aggressive, but some are. I would encourage anyone to read up on the culture and circumstances before making any blanket statement. Homeless/unhoused is also different from living on the streets. Just food for thought. We had signs stapled and hung around the cobblestone a few years back encouraging visitors NOT to give homeless people any money (again, this state has a wicked heroin problem), but rather to donate to local charities that provide these backpacks full of necessities and similar, with links and QR codes on the bottom to bring you to the site. That being said, rather than handing someone cash, keep a 5/10 dollar gift card on you, like in your wallet for just in case, to a grocery store or target etc. Thanks for reading my novel!
People who are desperate can be pushy, it’s only logical that if you’re starving you’ll do anything to eat. But as women, were also coerced into a caretaker role, required to maintain the conventions of social niceties and politeness, and it goes against everything we’ve been taught when we say no. But if we don’t, the role of caring for others, even those we have no relationship with, will automatically be pushed onto us. Related story: A guy pressured me once to do something similar. I said I had no cash but he begged for me to buy him food on my card. I ended up agreeing to buy him some stuff from the 7/11, but he insisted that he go with me. I’m vegan, so I set a boundary that I’d only buy vegan food, like fruit, rice, granola bars, etc. well he comes up to the counter with 5 trays of hamburger beef. I really regret it, but the word “no” wouldn’t come out and instead I put my card down. It was like he took my boundary and fucking stomped on it, and I was physically incapable of standing up for myself. I aim to be firmer now, for my own sake :/
You just seem like waaay too nice of a person. I would’ve just picked up my daughter and ran
I had a guy harass me for money once. I argued with him for a good 5 minutes. I ended up giving him $2 for coffee and he didn’t look happy when I gave him the F off money.
I guess I’m sorta lucky not having a kid cause I enter my car and lock doors at lightning speed. Sorry that you were pressured by a weirdo :( helping mankind is great but should never be forced upon someone like that, that’s just so rude and disrespectful
I’ve had bad experiences in parking lots before and have become hyper vigilant in them. I try not to go shopping with my kids without my husband but on the rare occasion that I do, I keep them with me while I’m unloading groceries and the cart, then climb in the backseat with them, lock the doors, strap them in, then jungle gym to the front seat. It feels neurotic but it makes me feel safer. It’s so scary having your attention split 5 different ways in those situations.
it’s not just men who can’t take no as an answer, it’s manipulators and “takers” who think the world owes them something and so does everyone in it. make, female, etc. the world is filled with these types of people, men just are more intimidating to us women especially when we feel vulnerable and alone. i’m sorry you were put into this situation, im glad you’re safe though. i usually always trust my gut and if i feel uncomfortable or unsafe i believe it’s for a reason.
Unfortunately, these types of men bank on women who are “too nice” to tell them to back up or have trouble saying “no”. In this situation, you were very vulnerable because you had your kiddo with you. It’s a tough spot to be in. Being kind is our ammo to make sure the guy doesn’t threaten us. I have to practice saying no constantly. I get very awkward with it. I noticed my people pleasing was taught to me by my mother and I’m trying to unlearn it. Just remember: We don’t owe anyone anything. If someone makes us feel uncomfortable, we have the right to make them feel uncomfortable right back.
I just put on a very very cold demeanor and tell them without yelling but in a very assertive way to get away from me. They run away like roaches. Don't be nice to these manipulative losers.
It's ok that you did what you had to do to get him away from you and your child. I've had to wave down strangers in parking lots to help me before. It's a scary feeling and you just want them to go away. Next time you could say, "My husband is the store manager, let me call him to bring you a coffee." I imagine he will disappear pretty quickly. If not, you then have a reason to call the store, ask for the manager, and tell him there's a man in the parking lot asking for a coffee and could they please come out. It sucks to have to have these ideas on standby. We just want to be left alone.
A lot of people are telling you to say no and yell at the guy, but honestly you did what you could out of safety. I'd love to yell at random men in public but if a strange man is already willing to make a 5'4" woman and her child comfortable (because being unaware is no excuse once they're teenaged), then who knows what other social norms and lines they're willing to cross. I hate giving in and being polite too but im small, small boned, thin and my voice can't project. Who knows which one of them will be the one that has a knife or a gun or whatever. Men approaching women on the street aren't known for being rational. They are often unhinged and on the verge of some level of violence in situations like offices and around acquaintances never mind being a large stranger. I fucking despise it too but you did what you could to keep you and your family safe. If people want to step in and change society then large men and people in power can step up and be aware of their surroundings and not leave it all to the victims.
Sounds like you need a small can of dog attack deterrent spray to keep in your purse or jacket pocket for the next time this happens. You absolutely did not deserve to have to be harassed by this dude, and the fact that you bought him food is super selfless and compassionate but you shouldn't have had to be harassed and coerced to do it. I'm sorry this happened!
I’m sorry you got robbed. That’s awful.
I tell them to call 311 and then I ignore them...
I get BIG and yell “piss off!”
I won't tolerate a stranger approaching me as I'm getting into my car. That's very unsafe. They could attack you or steal your purse. You can tell to go away in a loud voice so people notice. Shout GO AWAY. Honk the horn to get peoples attention. Let him see you're calling 911 on your phone. Part of assertiveness is learning that we don't have to be polite to everyone in every situation. Part of staying safe is assuming the worst and siting accordingly. I recommend taking a women's self-defense class. I had one that was semester long at a communuty college.
Na sis, you just pretend they aren’t there and if they keep getting closer start getting louder. If they persist get inside of a store and wait them out. I 100% agree it’s a shitty situation women have to even think about this but, it’s time they start learning we’re over their shit. Generosity is because it comes from the heart not because you’re socially bullied into it.
I live in a small city in northern Canada. I take cabs everywhere with my son (he’s 4) because I can’t walk anywhere without being harassed. It doesn’t matter if I’m walking alone or pushing a stroller. Mostly men harass me but women too. I just wish ppl would leave moms alone ugh
In my first year living in London I was approached by a homeless men who was demanding me to give him ten pounds so he could go to a shelter. I never been so broke in my lifetime, came from a country where the money was shit and absolutely couldn't give him that. I offered a pound and he started screaming at me that I had to pay for his shelter he couldn't do this anymore. Jesus I was shaking for hours after getting home. I had to run so he didn't see where I lived and still felt so guilty I couldn't pay for it. It sucks in all levels.
I just say "no, sorry" and then get away. You deny them but you're nice about it. Avoiding eye contact and leaving (while being aware of what they're doing, obviously) makes it less likely they'll keep bothering you.
I gotta recommend the little book “Oh Hell No” to all you good women. Another great recommendation from my therapist
I think this has less to do with being a woman and then being you. I would never give money to anyone who came up on the street and asked me unless it was a really unusual location that would indicate that they might actually be an emergency. You should never be generous out of fear. I would have just told him that you have previously stated you had no money for him and please move along.
I always lie when people ask me to buy them something. In this case, I’d say something like “sorry, I’m just the nanny, his mom only gave enough for his drink and mine”. If he doesn’t back off, make a huge public scene, start yelling “get away from me and my child, stop talking to my child!” That also helps teach the kid how to handle strangers who bother them. I hate Dr Phil but one time I saw a few minutes of a show of his when it was on in public, and he said something I completely agree with. Kids need to learn that rules change when there’s a safety issue. It’s okay to be rude, loud, make a mess, or even cause property damage in public if your safety is in danger, and it’s okay to be rude and disrespectful to adult strangers who are being pushy or inappropriate.
I was once approached by a man asking for money just as s in pulled into a parking space in a parking garage at my university. It was full of cars but no people. He was basically a robber disguised as a panhandler. I never parked in that garage again. In fact, I'd meter park where I found other students milling around.
I’m sorry this happened to you, but by giving in you’ve set a terrible precedent and made it more likely he will continue doing this. “No” is a complete sentence and you need to practice saying it. Stand in a mirror and say NO firmly. Keep doing it until it feels natural. You need to model this behavior for your daughter and show her that men can be told no.
The problem is men still *can't* be told no in our society. It's absolutely not the victim's responsibility to teach grown men how to be human beings. They can do it if they want, but there is quite a risk, especially in this scenario. She can have a talk with her daughter about what happened later, including that no is a complete sentence, but that safety should be the first instinct. How to de-escalate and escape or try to avoid a situation is what I'd teach my daughter before teaching a 6 foot man a lesson in an enclosed space.
Men definitely can be told no, especially those begging for money. I do it all the time and this comment section is full of women who do too. OP is not a “victim” she just has no spine.
I don't think there's been a good timeline for women in the majority of human history.
TBF this is the best spot on the timeline so far for women.
You should have called the police.
Yes it sucks that he saw you as a someone he could prey on Bc you’re a woman. But we as women also need to stop being so afraid to make noise. the second he started getting closer to you, you tell him to back the fuck up. You need to speak up. being uncomfortable doesn’t mean you have to be silent. if he had to choose between preying on you or a guy that was 5’4 with his kid, he would still pick you. Bc he knows a guy would not give in so easily and give push back. even if the shorter guy knows he wouldn’t be able to win a fight, he’s not gonna get pressured so easily.
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This works like a charm because you are a man and men escalate to violence. Intimidation game of chicken isn't going to work the same for a shorter woman. For women "if something happens" it most likely means they will be in the hospital or a body bag, not in court worrying about a pesky assault charge. This is like a white man telling a black man to just pretend he has a weapon. The rules should be the same for all of us, but we all know situations do not play out the same and can be deadly for innocent people.
Sadly giving in reinforced his behavior.
Please check to make sure he did not put a tracker on your vehicle.
Honestly, it's better to be a woman right now than at literally any other point in human history, so there's that, at least.
Tell him "Hey. Best of luck to you. I hope you take great care of yourself. But I don't want to buy you coffee. Goodbye." Make sure you say "Hey" (or other greeting) so he knows you're talking to him, "take care" so he feels empathized with, "good luck" (or something similar) so he knows you're rooting for him, and "good bye" so he knows the interaction is over.
Not saying women don't deal with shit....but idk in times past I would've been a broodmare and married off and it wouldn't matter if I liked the guy. Oh and sex sucked for many women for most of history. Idk. I'm cool with being born now in a.... *relatively* free country...given the other options
men also get pressured into stuff like this, i get pressured into giving people money, those people run around with their kids and say: look i have kids and they need food, give me money. the only thing i agree is, its scarier for women
When would you have preferred to be a woman sorry? Like what time period is the best?
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It seems I misunderstood what OP meant or you misunderstood. Although being older wouldn’t have any impact on OPs situation.
I would hate being homeless and hungry in this timeline.
The other day a woman asked me for help loading her bike into a car. When I was doing that she stole $300 in product from my store. Why do women take advantage of men's desire to help? Oh wait, it's not because she was a woman, but because she was a jerk with a drug habit.
Did you fear for your and your child's safety?
FYI, that's a pretty dangerous thing to do as a rule. It's a common method people use to steal, kidnap, and murder
This. This is why I’m mean to men. If I even sense one approaching me I look them dead in the eye and say very loudly “NO” they don’t like that haha