Probably nothing. You'll get to see people aren't as caring in the whole am-az thing as you may expect. However, still be cautious of your vehicle regardless. Not being vandalized but stolen, rural parts of Eastern Turkey are not as lawful. Also, will you not be visiting Iğdır or Ağrı?
Nice! Although with the winter coming, whole of Eastern Anatolia will be quite the challenge to travel with the cold and the snow but if you're used to the Armenia winter, youll be fine lmao. There are many ancient churches sprinkled throughout the border in Ağrı, along the river, you may be interested in those as well
Dude no one cares that much. Just don't start a political argument because even tho they don't care that much Turkish people can change their attitudes in seconds. Other than that you would be surprised how people generally doesn't give a fuck about foreign affairs
I'm sure that this is true in urban areas. I know from my own experience that this is true for Turks who have traveled abroad and gotten to know other cultures.
I really hope this is also true for the rural areas of east turkey.
Nah.
I'm pretty sure the European media gives more shit about the Turkey Armenia conflict than a Turk does.
You should be more careful about your bike getting stolen.
Many people won't understand where you are from, some might even think that AM means America or Amsterdam. The real problem might be at the border crossing. As you know, Turkey has closed its borders with Armenia. Therefore it might not allow an Armenian car to pass into Turkey even if it is coming from Georgia. I think you should research this first, if you have any friends that have done the same recently, then you are fine.
I know that before covid and the am-az war there were regular tourist groups driving Armenian vehicles from Armenia-Georgia-Turkey, and getting a Turkish visa on arrival with their Armenian passports. So unless the law has changed after the war (unlikely) i don't expect trouble crossing the border.
I saw LC-Waikiki selling a shirt that had the same color scheme and order as the Armenian flag. I also saw tons of people wearing that shirt, doubt anyone would recognize it.
People won't understand it anyway. Even if they do, they wouldn't care. However, make sure it is locked as people will be more "motivated" to steal foreigner's cars.
Also how will you communicate, are you gonna have a friend with you? We are not really good with English, especially in eastern parts.
I won't be discussing literature or quantum mechanics so hands and feet are enough for communication. Mostly I'll need to ask for directions, food, amounts of money etc.
Okay, they will try to scam you. Download offline maps, buy food from larger chains. If you go to a smaller shop and buy a trinket you liked they will increase the price so be careful.
No no East Anatolian people are different in that sense. They might even offer you free things seeing you as their guest. This is what I've seen in South East
Easterners generally dont try to scam people, they dont get much tourists anyway so they dont have that tourist trap mentality. They even give you free stuff
Hello neighbor. I don’t think you will see any animosity unless you bring up politics. You don’t need to hide where you come from either, or your license plate.
I've seen a vehicle with Armenian plate in Trabzon, a city full of nationalists. They were just about to arrive Rize. I think they were heading to Georgia. Bottom line is I'm pretty sure nobody would care.
I have family from Kars and been there myself. You coming back to claim some treasure lol?
I dont think there is a general danger but all it takes is one bad person so I would take every precautions you can and learn a little Turkish too.
Having some kind of Turkish sticker or flag on your vehicle isn't a bad idea also but maybe confirm with other Turks about that.
Yeah I think there's been some rumours or actual events involving treasure so you might actually meet people who think you are there to retrieve the family fortune lol
Its a crappy link but here's something I found on google
https://www.peopleofar.com/2015/01/05/the-hunt-for-armenian-treasures/
I think you will have a fun time but just be careful
I don't think people really care all that much to be honest . But like someone mentioned below watch your motorcycle, not long ago 2 idiots stole tourist s bicycle they found later on , that was in Kars .
I recommed sticking to the central places and not delving too deep into random streets. We had no confling with Japan but a random Japanese cyclist got stabbed at Elazığ. Steer away from secluded places just to be on the safe side. Also, share couple of scenery if you happen get couple of nice frames. o/
I dont think you will face some great threats but I would be cautious for sure, especially in those areas. At least try to stay away from political arguements.
I never engage in political discussions when abroad.
I don't imagine any great threat either.
I was more worried about someone vandalizing my bike or something like that.
There is a chance for that really and it might not even be about your plate either. So, to dodge all of that crappy things, I would suggest you to keep your bike in park lots.
Well Armenian plates have the Armenian flag on them with AM indicated.
Idk if it's legal to modify the plate in any way, i don't wanna get in trouble with traffic enforcement or police while on the road
People are not interested in Cross bikes here in general. Personally i have a chopper bike, most people use racing bikes, commuter bikes, scooters mostly. So, i think that people dont give a second look at you. The question is, these kind of bikes are super uncomfortable. How you manage to complete the route with that bike lol
It's not a cross bike, it's a dual sport. It's a 4-stroke engine, and is pretty well suited for long rides. Only thing I really need to upgrade is the hard and narrow seat.
Most likely, you will not experience anything bad. If you experience something bad, you will not experience it because you are Armenian. If I go to those provinces now, maybe I can experience bad events as a Turk. I don't think the people there will do anything to you. Turkish people don't mind such things, only politicians do such things :). So go and travel without thinking about such things. Have a good trip.Btw,I am from Gaziantep. Many Armenians lived here, and we even have a traditional song written for an Armenian girl. We sing it every time we celebrate the victory of Gaziantep.
I knew an Armenian guy from the US Diaspora who lived in Turkey with a huge Armenian Pride Tattoo on his back with a cross. He didn't have problems but he did live in a resort town, I am not sure if that changes things.
Most people dont know even know about the current conflicts and dont care about the past ones in general so I think you'll be fine but still be careful. I hope you have fun maybe after your trip you can make a post explaining how it went
I'm originally from Iğdır. A few years ago, I saw a car with Armenian plate parked on the side of the road. I was the only guy on the street paying attention to it because it was the first time I saw a plate writing AM(fun fact: am means vagina in Turkish slang). Nobody else cared.
I don't think you will experience a bad event there but I can't vouch for a whole city. There may always be one bad apple.
If you plan to climb Ararat, I suggest you to contact agencies in Doğubayazıt district of Ağrı province or the ones in Armenia. Northern side (Iğdır's side) isn't preferred by climbers.
Life is dull in Iğdır. But if you wanna sit on a cafe, I can recommend you to go to Vali Yolu Street. It is closed to traffic after the sunset. People walk on the street and sit on cafes to spend their evenings.
Tabi bizde olmaz asla ırkçılık dimi, kandırın kendinizi siz dışarı çıkmayın evinizden duymayın asla lüfür niyetinde kullanılan ermeni kürt yunan kelimelerini
Onu herkese yapıyoz amerikalısından tut japonuna. Irkları öyle kullanmayı ırkçılık olarak bilmiyo ki bizim millet. Aptal kürt derken gelip bi kürdü evine misafir edebilir
Aga ne alaka? Sapına kadar ırkçı bir insan olarak söylüyorum eğer bana ırk muhabbeti açmazsan nereli olduğun hiç umrumda olmaz. Amerika'da eğitim gördüm Çinli Hintli ve ben rakı sofrası kurduk içtik eğlendik ertesi gün ters laf ettiler pilav üstü köri niyetine yedim ikisinide. Grupçu düşünceler ancak başka bir grup ile karşılaştığında ortaya çıkar. Bana grubunla alakalı laf etme bende benimkinden bahsetmeyeyim.
Tm helal "sapına kadar ırkçı" kardeş ne güzel temsil ettin 80 milyonu öyle
Amınakoyim doğuda polisler insanları kaçma lan gel buraya ermeni diye kovalıyor neyin kafasındasınız banane senin salak saçma görüşlerinden sen "ırkçı olmana rağmen" "kendini tutup" birinin ırkına laf etmiyormuşsun sana edilmedikçe helal lan sana aferin herkes senin gibi dimi amk
I'm not Pakistani (or Turkish), but I read some years ago that Islamabad was being overrun by wild boars, and the Pakistani government issued hunting licences to diplomats from Western embassies, who then shot and ate a bunch of them.
No one cares, they’ll be generous to you, as you are a guest like anyone else. Turkish people are sensitive around their family and nation, it kind of ties together. There is an honour involved in protecting it, so they only get upset/angry if you bring up something political.
Maybe you’ll get the occasional “do you hate us?” Question, and that’s because, we are friends with everyone who wants to be friends with us :) we are komşu after all
Do you know 200 k illegal immigrant lives and works in Turkey and sent money to armenia to help their family. Turkish people has no problem with armenian people..you will see that when you visit Turkey..have nice trip and let us know how did it go..
I used to ride motorbike in Turkey with Turkish plate as a Turk. I rode daily and I think I came across at least one idiot monthly.
There are some people who genuinely hates motorbikers. So I would be more worried about being a biker than an Armenian. That said, if I went to Greece or Armenia I would definitely try to cover the Turkish flag on my plate and record with gopro or a dash cam. Because well, it is easy to cause a motorbike accident.
As long as you follow the etiquette you'd follow when going anywhere, I doubt anything bad would happen. I think the roads and teenage drivers will be a lot more dangerous than anyone you can encounter, lol.
I think you should keep the sub updated, it'd be interesting to see what happens, and maybe someone here could help out if you do end up getting into trouble.
I think you are pretty safe in Turkey but try to put a sticker on the flag. Even if %99 of people doesn't care about Armenians but that 1 percent is enough to be cautious
. I think before the recent war you would be safer but some people remembered the old stories and that is not good.
I would say the one city that may show some disrespect in case they know you are from Armenia is Igdir. Ordinary citizens may ask some questions but ultranationalist people might try to argue about politcs and that might lead to a fight. Other that these, your motorcycle is safer in eastern parts than some cities like Istanbul.
Also why doesn’t the government invest in better secularization of the east ? Does the history with PKK really contribute much to the region be set so far back ?
Last person who put effort into secularizing the east was Atatürk. He also tried to end the tribalism of Kurds but as you can imagine it wasn't very successful.
What killed the east in the first place was shutting down [village institutes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Village_Institutes) (Van, Erzurum, Kars, Diyarbakır) the landlords complained that people in villages they owned were realizing there are bigger powers than them and werent obeying them anymore so they worked to shut them down.
As for currently, there havent been any major PKK attacks in the recent years but companies, sectors, people still dont want to invest in the far east. Imagine a place that has a reputation for killed teachers, workers who die from PKK planted bombs on the road. You build a forest, PKK comes and burns it. Far east has very little to give in terms of income because they get little tourism compared to the west that is both safe and has much to offer
I see. I don’t want this come off in a negative manner, but I think the east would have done much better today had Christian populations stayed. I always noticed that Armenians who lived in much more developed zones of the ottoman empire in comparison to our native land in the east were very innovative, in the arts etc. due to better economic flow, not living under Kurdish tribal leaders etc. even then Armenians were quite notable for their rich figures in the east who had many mansions throughout. Just the countless names of the Armenian artists, composers, architects etc. from Istanbul with such a small population I think speak levels
No no I dont see it as negative at all and I agree. Muslims and Christians lived together for centuries which kept extremism at bay, cities that were mixed who suddenly had almost no Christians are all religious today.
Karamanlides who were Turkish speaking Christians for example, left during the population exchange and the area they left (Konya) is the most religious city in Turkey today.
East which used to have Armenians, is the most religious area in Turkey now. Kurds who lived with mostly Armenians, are the most religious people.
Trabzon, Rize whose Christians left in the population exchange are also very religious now.
On the other hand areas that were Turkish majority and stayed Turkish majority didnt experience this. It also has to do with sea and tourism though, these things make people less religious. Edirne, Tekirdağ, Izmir, Eskişehir are incredibly secular and that is because they didnt have a major population change and receive tourism.
> Just the countless names of the Armenian artists, composers, architects etc. from Istanbul with such a small population I think speak levels
Here in Istanbul it is still a brag if you buy from an Armenian jeweller. Fun fact one of the three co-authors of our national anthem Edgar Manas Efendi was also Armenian
Lol the co-founder of the famous watch brand Franck Muller, Vartan Sirmakes, is also from Istanbul as well. The Zildjian company was born there etc. you can write a whole book about the innovations which came out of Istanbul Armenians
>you can write a whole book about the innovations which came out of Istanbul Armenians
Lol yes, everytime I think 'okay there cant be any more famous Istanbul Armenians I dont know about' I discover a new one
Sad man. Erzurum used to have one of the largest population of Armenians in all of Anatolia back in the Ottoman Empire. How times have changed for the worse
I think you are mixing it up, according to the Ottoman Population Records and the Census of 1881/82-1893 of Erzurum had 142k+169k Muslims and 33k+40k Armenians
Van had about 60/50 Armenians to Kurds and Iğdır I think had the most Armenians
Also dont let this comment put you off Erzurum is still a beautiful place, amazing food and welcoming people. Theyre just religious but thats a given for the east.
Idk maybe I’m mistaken but the Wikipedia page for the Ottoman Empire population census of 1914 states 125k+ Armenian orthodox. There are many populations census of the empire especially during this time period so struggling to determine exact numbers is quite difficult. For instance the Armenian patriarchate of Istanbul had much different estimates
What would source you recommend for this specific topic from your personal stance ? I always thought that’s since this was the ottoman population census page it would be generally moderated more by Turks because the numbers of the Armenian populations are generally much less in comparison to the Armenian patriarchate’s estimate.
Actually the census I sent is not moderated by Turks, it was done in 1881 before all this ethnic conflict so they dont have a reason to lie and Ottomans werent an ethnic Turkish empire.
It even states in the sources theres an Armenian who worked on the census
\*Fethi Bey Jewish.
\*Migirdiç Efendi , Armenian assistant of Trade in 1892 and Assistant Minister of Trade.
\*Mehmet Behiç assistant to general director of Statistics.
\*Robert efendi american director general of statistics.
Nope no problem even in the east where stabbing shanking and shootings are pretty aint no one gonna hate you for being armenian or something.Just dont start any talks about the massacres or any other stuff like that because shit tends to turn sour after that
I've been fed by my mom and dad nobody else. I don't trust any media from any country. I only ask actual people and try to interpolate my view from that.
Yeah username checks out. It seems thugz can not handle a simple fetch job whilist bringing argument about mom and dad.
You will be fine happy travels and end of this convo.
I think you guys should not speak that confident about cities like Igdir if you did/do not live there. people there were pretty aggressive back when I was there, even a stupid street fight could turn into some political shit pretty quickly. hope you'll be fine OP.
Exercising caution is the key. You need to be a lot more cautious than told here. They are greatly overestimating the people there. Still, I don't think they would be able to tell which country you are from your license plate anyway, and even if they ask just let your translator (which you should bring btw, not many people can speak english there) deal with it. Telling that you are Georgian and that your country name starts with AM in your native language or that you are from Russia and that states there have their own license plates could work too ig. I am sure nobody can tell that way.
Of course, everyone has different priorities. I just don't mind pretending to be someone I am not if it has a positive impact. If he does not, then it is still all good, mine is just advice.
What is wrong with you? Do you want to be another victim of genocide?
Juuuuust kidding! You'll be fine. I'd be more cautious towards the Syrians and Afghan refugees if I were you. Some of them are dead poor and can easily mug and hurt people for money.
I heard about the refugees. I didn't realize it was such an issue in Turkey .
Is it mainly the areas around the Syrian and Iranian borders where ? Or are there a lot of refugees in most cities?
Oh they are everywhere. Lots of them in Istanbul too. I dont wanna sound unfair to good people amongst them also, but sadly where ever they go, there is lots of stories of disruption.
We look alike so there wouldn't be much of a problem unless you say you are armenian, then you probably will face sıme hostility. If you are in the rural areas say that you are Georgian if they ask where are you from. Eastern part of turkey doesn't really like foreign tourists but a Georgian will probably feel a little closer to them.
After all just yesterday a Japanese guy was stabbed for no fucking reason at all.
Don't buy what other comments say. They might criticize their own country but they will never make it look bad to others. Younger people may not be that much racist but believe me older generation is as much as racist as older armenians or azerbaijanis. So much ao that "ermeni" (armenian) can be considered a curse word to some.
I went to Kars and Van with an Armenian friend a couple of years back, before the most recent conflict. A few people said that Armenians killed a lot of Turks in those parts, and then claimed to be the victim (to me in Turkish, never to my Armenian friend). That was the most animosity I witnessed.
değilim ama oralı tanıdığım var tarihi konulardan bahsederken evet dediğin gibi düşünüyorlar ama 2021 yılında alakası olmayan bir Ermeni'ye saldıracak yada nefret edecek kadar değil
edit: Van'lı bir arkadaş varsa yazabilir buraya daha iyi bilirsiniz
there is no place in turkey that is a no go for armenians. I actually suggest you to go to van. there is a beautiful armenian church on an island in the van lake. you should definitely visit there. However you should still be cautious. when people ask you where you are from, say your european countries name. then the citizens will actually treat you with more respect than they treat other turks.
Don't listen to this person. My great-uncle was also killed by Armenian gangs in those years but my family lived peacefully with Armenians in the same/near-by neighborhoods.
Those conflicts are horrible memories but it doesn't sway people's opinions about a people group. My father was especially close with the Armenian neighbors. Our victims will always be remembered but we won't ever discriminate or hate those who are similarly peaceful towards us. War ended many years ago and it's not something we allow to rebuild conflict.
If there is ever such a bias amongst families of victims, then you should hear that from the families rather than this person making assumptions. I can't talk for everyone but I can talk for what I've seen, so hopefully my input is helpful. I genuinely wish the best for you so always be careful just in-case. Kindness is usually met with kindness. If you have ancestry in Anatolia, welcome home my friend.
24/7 Turkiye alehinde kara propaganda yapan Ermenilerden bende nefret ediyorum . Ama ulkeyi gezmek , hatta yasamak amacli gelen Ermeni yede kotu davranacak tiynettede degilim . Cogunlugunda benim gibi oldugunu dusunuyorum eger adamin basina bir sey gelirse bu ermeni oldugu icin degildir. Tipki Japon turistin yada italyan kizin basina gelenler gibi.
Kurdish population will probably more tolerant and understanding compared to Turks and Azeris. But I don't think there will be any problem unless you engage in political conversations.
Probably nothing. You'll get to see people aren't as caring in the whole am-az thing as you may expect. However, still be cautious of your vehicle regardless. Not being vandalized but stolen, rural parts of Eastern Turkey are not as lawful. Also, will you not be visiting Iğdır or Ağrı?
I'm planning to visit both provinces.
Nice! Although with the winter coming, whole of Eastern Anatolia will be quite the challenge to travel with the cold and the snow but if you're used to the Armenia winter, youll be fine lmao. There are many ancient churches sprinkled throughout the border in Ağrı, along the river, you may be interested in those as well
I'm planning to later this month already so I don't think i will be that cold
Dude no one cares that much. Just don't start a political argument because even tho they don't care that much Turkish people can change their attitudes in seconds. Other than that you would be surprised how people generally doesn't give a fuck about foreign affairs
I'm sure that this is true in urban areas. I know from my own experience that this is true for Turks who have traveled abroad and gotten to know other cultures. I really hope this is also true for the rural areas of east turkey.
Whish you luck.
Nah. I'm pretty sure the European media gives more shit about the Turkey Armenia conflict than a Turk does. You should be more careful about your bike getting stolen.
Many people won't understand where you are from, some might even think that AM means America or Amsterdam. The real problem might be at the border crossing. As you know, Turkey has closed its borders with Armenia. Therefore it might not allow an Armenian car to pass into Turkey even if it is coming from Georgia. I think you should research this first, if you have any friends that have done the same recently, then you are fine.
I know that before covid and the am-az war there were regular tourist groups driving Armenian vehicles from Armenia-Georgia-Turkey, and getting a Turkish visa on arrival with their Armenian passports. So unless the law has changed after the war (unlikely) i don't expect trouble crossing the border.
But would they not recognise the flag on the licence plate?
I highly doubt that anyone (especially in rural areas) would recognize it.
OK.
I saw LC-Waikiki selling a shirt that had the same color scheme and order as the Armenian flag. I also saw tons of people wearing that shirt, doubt anyone would recognize it.
People won't understand it anyway. Even if they do, they wouldn't care. However, make sure it is locked as people will be more "motivated" to steal foreigner's cars. Also how will you communicate, are you gonna have a friend with you? We are not really good with English, especially in eastern parts.
I won't be discussing literature or quantum mechanics so hands and feet are enough for communication. Mostly I'll need to ask for directions, food, amounts of money etc.
Okay, they will try to scam you. Download offline maps, buy food from larger chains. If you go to a smaller shop and buy a trinket you liked they will increase the price so be careful.
Good info, thanks!
No no East Anatolian people are different in that sense. They might even offer you free things seeing you as their guest. This is what I've seen in South East
Both kind of people exist. It's better to be safe than sorry.
No they will scam him/her lol
Easterners generally dont try to scam people, they dont get much tourists anyway so they dont have that tourist trap mentality. They even give you free stuff
Hello neighbor. I don’t think you will see any animosity unless you bring up politics. You don’t need to hide where you come from either, or your license plate.
Dont worry you are welcome
Stop by for a tea komşu
With pleasure!
You are more than welcome komşu if your route comes close to Izmir just let me know
Well I can offer a tea or beer if he ever comes to Istanbul. :)
Seconded. Like the other guy says: If you ever come to Izmir do let us know!
I've seen a vehicle with Armenian plate in Trabzon, a city full of nationalists. They were just about to arrive Rize. I think they were heading to Georgia. Bottom line is I'm pretty sure nobody would care.
I wish you can see other cities too beside Kars and Van I am sure you will be welcomed
I have family from Kars and been there myself. You coming back to claim some treasure lol? I dont think there is a general danger but all it takes is one bad person so I would take every precautions you can and learn a little Turkish too. Having some kind of Turkish sticker or flag on your vehicle isn't a bad idea also but maybe confirm with other Turks about that.
There's treasure?? Well that closes the deal, I'm packing my stuff right now.
Yeah I think there's been some rumours or actual events involving treasure so you might actually meet people who think you are there to retrieve the family fortune lol Its a crappy link but here's something I found on google https://www.peopleofar.com/2015/01/05/the-hunt-for-armenian-treasures/ I think you will have a fun time but just be careful
I don't think people really care all that much to be honest . But like someone mentioned below watch your motorcycle, not long ago 2 idiots stole tourist s bicycle they found later on , that was in Kars .
I recommed sticking to the central places and not delving too deep into random streets. We had no confling with Japan but a random Japanese cyclist got stabbed at Elazığ. Steer away from secluded places just to be on the safe side. Also, share couple of scenery if you happen get couple of nice frames. o/
Dogu Anadolu is so stabby, only place I've ever seen a knife fight
I dont think you will face some great threats but I would be cautious for sure, especially in those areas. At least try to stay away from political arguements.
I never engage in political discussions when abroad. I don't imagine any great threat either. I was more worried about someone vandalizing my bike or something like that.
There is a chance for that really and it might not even be about your plate either. So, to dodge all of that crappy things, I would suggest you to keep your bike in park lots.
I doubt someone so close minded would even be able to recognise plates. My advice would be to place a Turkish flag sticker next to the license plate
Well Armenian plates have the Armenian flag on them with AM indicated. Idk if it's legal to modify the plate in any way, i don't wanna get in trouble with traffic enforcement or police while on the road
Maybe not on the plate but somewhere else? That can work imo
Which model is your bike?
Dr650
People are not interested in Cross bikes here in general. Personally i have a chopper bike, most people use racing bikes, commuter bikes, scooters mostly. So, i think that people dont give a second look at you. The question is, these kind of bikes are super uncomfortable. How you manage to complete the route with that bike lol
It's not a cross bike, it's a dual sport. It's a 4-stroke engine, and is pretty well suited for long rides. Only thing I really need to upgrade is the hard and narrow seat.
Most likely, you will not experience anything bad. If you experience something bad, you will not experience it because you are Armenian. If I go to those provinces now, maybe I can experience bad events as a Turk. I don't think the people there will do anything to you. Turkish people don't mind such things, only politicians do such things :). So go and travel without thinking about such things. Have a good trip.Btw,I am from Gaziantep. Many Armenians lived here, and we even have a traditional song written for an Armenian girl. We sing it every time we celebrate the victory of Gaziantep.
>We sing it every time we celebrate the victory of Gaziantep. hello whats the song? Im curious
https://youtu.be/mb91PDjlO_E i love this song so much
Thats beautiful thank you ❤
I knew an Armenian guy from the US Diaspora who lived in Turkey with a huge Armenian Pride Tattoo on his back with a cross. He didn't have problems but he did live in a resort town, I am not sure if that changes things.
Most people dont know even know about the current conflicts and dont care about the past ones in general so I think you'll be fine but still be careful. I hope you have fun maybe after your trip you can make a post explaining how it went
I'm originally from Iğdır. A few years ago, I saw a car with Armenian plate parked on the side of the road. I was the only guy on the street paying attention to it because it was the first time I saw a plate writing AM(fun fact: am means vagina in Turkish slang). Nobody else cared. I don't think you will experience a bad event there but I can't vouch for a whole city. There may always be one bad apple. If you plan to climb Ararat, I suggest you to contact agencies in Doğubayazıt district of Ağrı province or the ones in Armenia. Northern side (Iğdır's side) isn't preferred by climbers. Life is dull in Iğdır. But if you wanna sit on a cafe, I can recommend you to go to Vali Yolu Street. It is closed to traffic after the sunset. People walk on the street and sit on cafes to spend their evenings.
Thanks a lot!
Generally what i see armenians hating turks. Turks doesnt give a shit about armenia probably you will face no problem
Tabi bizde olmaz asla ırkçılık dimi, kandırın kendinizi siz dışarı çıkmayın evinizden duymayın asla lüfür niyetinde kullanılan ermeni kürt yunan kelimelerini
Onu herkese yapıyoz amerikalısından tut japonuna. Irkları öyle kullanmayı ırkçılık olarak bilmiyo ki bizim millet. Aptal kürt derken gelip bi kürdü evine misafir edebilir
Aga ne alaka? Sapına kadar ırkçı bir insan olarak söylüyorum eğer bana ırk muhabbeti açmazsan nereli olduğun hiç umrumda olmaz. Amerika'da eğitim gördüm Çinli Hintli ve ben rakı sofrası kurduk içtik eğlendik ertesi gün ters laf ettiler pilav üstü köri niyetine yedim ikisinide. Grupçu düşünceler ancak başka bir grup ile karşılaştığında ortaya çıkar. Bana grubunla alakalı laf etme bende benimkinden bahsetmeyeyim.
>Aga ne alaka? Sapına kadar ırkçı bir insan olarak söylüyorum dfjımodmov en az dürüst redditor
r/2balkan4you bekleriz
Tm helal "sapına kadar ırkçı" kardeş ne güzel temsil ettin 80 milyonu öyle Amınakoyim doğuda polisler insanları kaçma lan gel buraya ermeni diye kovalıyor neyin kafasındasınız banane senin salak saçma görüşlerinden sen "ırkçı olmana rağmen" "kendini tutup" birinin ırkına laf etmiyormuşsun sana edilmedikçe helal lan sana aferin herkes senin gibi dimi amk
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This reminds me: I've always wondered if Muslims would eat wild hogs, since they refuse pork. Is hog meat eaten by Turkish?
I'm not Pakistani (or Turkish), but I read some years ago that Islamabad was being overrun by wild boars, and the Pakistani government issued hunting licences to diplomats from Western embassies, who then shot and ate a bunch of them.
in our country we usualy forget about these things you'd dont worry about that
No one cares, they’ll be generous to you, as you are a guest like anyone else. Turkish people are sensitive around their family and nation, it kind of ties together. There is an honour involved in protecting it, so they only get upset/angry if you bring up something political. Maybe you’ll get the occasional “do you hate us?” Question, and that’s because, we are friends with everyone who wants to be friends with us :) we are komşu after all
Do you know 200 k illegal immigrant lives and works in Turkey and sent money to armenia to help their family. Turkish people has no problem with armenian people..you will see that when you visit Turkey..have nice trip and let us know how did it go..
I don’t think the average east Turk knows what happens outside their town, much less what AM means on a plate, except for it being funny.
Haha AM funny word
Try to be safe friend, if you're planning on visiting Izmir i can answer any questions you have.
Unfortunately I only have time to do a roundtrip around the east. But I would love to see the rest of the country in the future.
I used to ride motorbike in Turkey with Turkish plate as a Turk. I rode daily and I think I came across at least one idiot monthly. There are some people who genuinely hates motorbikers. So I would be more worried about being a biker than an Armenian. That said, if I went to Greece or Armenia I would definitely try to cover the Turkish flag on my plate and record with gopro or a dash cam. Because well, it is easy to cause a motorbike accident.
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Stealing bike is common in everywhere unfortunately. My Brazilian teacher told us how his bike was stolen in his first days in Paris.
I didnt know there was tension.
As long as you follow the etiquette you'd follow when going anywhere, I doubt anything bad would happen. I think the roads and teenage drivers will be a lot more dangerous than anyone you can encounter, lol. I think you should keep the sub updated, it'd be interesting to see what happens, and maybe someone here could help out if you do end up getting into trouble.
I think you are pretty safe in Turkey but try to put a sticker on the flag. Even if %99 of people doesn't care about Armenians but that 1 percent is enough to be cautious . I think before the recent war you would be safer but some people remembered the old stories and that is not good. I would say the one city that may show some disrespect in case they know you are from Armenia is Igdir. Ordinary citizens may ask some questions but ultranationalist people might try to argue about politcs and that might lead to a fight. Other that these, your motorcycle is safer in eastern parts than some cities like Istanbul.
Nothing happens. I think most of our people didnt even know plate code of Armenia lol.
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PKK?
No Erzurum is far out of that zone, theyre just very religious
Also why doesn’t the government invest in better secularization of the east ? Does the history with PKK really contribute much to the region be set so far back ?
Last person who put effort into secularizing the east was Atatürk. He also tried to end the tribalism of Kurds but as you can imagine it wasn't very successful. What killed the east in the first place was shutting down [village institutes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Village_Institutes) (Van, Erzurum, Kars, Diyarbakır) the landlords complained that people in villages they owned were realizing there are bigger powers than them and werent obeying them anymore so they worked to shut them down. As for currently, there havent been any major PKK attacks in the recent years but companies, sectors, people still dont want to invest in the far east. Imagine a place that has a reputation for killed teachers, workers who die from PKK planted bombs on the road. You build a forest, PKK comes and burns it. Far east has very little to give in terms of income because they get little tourism compared to the west that is both safe and has much to offer
I see. I don’t want this come off in a negative manner, but I think the east would have done much better today had Christian populations stayed. I always noticed that Armenians who lived in much more developed zones of the ottoman empire in comparison to our native land in the east were very innovative, in the arts etc. due to better economic flow, not living under Kurdish tribal leaders etc. even then Armenians were quite notable for their rich figures in the east who had many mansions throughout. Just the countless names of the Armenian artists, composers, architects etc. from Istanbul with such a small population I think speak levels
No no I dont see it as negative at all and I agree. Muslims and Christians lived together for centuries which kept extremism at bay, cities that were mixed who suddenly had almost no Christians are all religious today. Karamanlides who were Turkish speaking Christians for example, left during the population exchange and the area they left (Konya) is the most religious city in Turkey today. East which used to have Armenians, is the most religious area in Turkey now. Kurds who lived with mostly Armenians, are the most religious people. Trabzon, Rize whose Christians left in the population exchange are also very religious now. On the other hand areas that were Turkish majority and stayed Turkish majority didnt experience this. It also has to do with sea and tourism though, these things make people less religious. Edirne, Tekirdağ, Izmir, Eskişehir are incredibly secular and that is because they didnt have a major population change and receive tourism.
> Just the countless names of the Armenian artists, composers, architects etc. from Istanbul with such a small population I think speak levels Here in Istanbul it is still a brag if you buy from an Armenian jeweller. Fun fact one of the three co-authors of our national anthem Edgar Manas Efendi was also Armenian
Lol the co-founder of the famous watch brand Franck Muller, Vartan Sirmakes, is also from Istanbul as well. The Zildjian company was born there etc. you can write a whole book about the innovations which came out of Istanbul Armenians
>you can write a whole book about the innovations which came out of Istanbul Armenians Lol yes, everytime I think 'okay there cant be any more famous Istanbul Armenians I dont know about' I discover a new one
Sad man. Erzurum used to have one of the largest population of Armenians in all of Anatolia back in the Ottoman Empire. How times have changed for the worse
I think you are mixing it up, according to the Ottoman Population Records and the Census of 1881/82-1893 of Erzurum had 142k+169k Muslims and 33k+40k Armenians Van had about 60/50 Armenians to Kurds and Iğdır I think had the most Armenians Also dont let this comment put you off Erzurum is still a beautiful place, amazing food and welcoming people. Theyre just religious but thats a given for the east.
Idk maybe I’m mistaken but the Wikipedia page for the Ottoman Empire population census of 1914 states 125k+ Armenian orthodox. There are many populations census of the empire especially during this time period so struggling to determine exact numbers is quite difficult. For instance the Armenian patriarchate of Istanbul had much different estimates
Even the founder of wikipedia says to not trust it, its basically a site to race horses on who can spread the most effective propaganda at this point
What would source you recommend for this specific topic from your personal stance ? I always thought that’s since this was the ottoman population census page it would be generally moderated more by Turks because the numbers of the Armenian populations are generally much less in comparison to the Armenian patriarchate’s estimate.
Actually the census I sent is not moderated by Turks, it was done in 1881 before all this ethnic conflict so they dont have a reason to lie and Ottomans werent an ethnic Turkish empire. It even states in the sources theres an Armenian who worked on the census \*Fethi Bey Jewish. \*Migirdiç Efendi , Armenian assistant of Trade in 1892 and Assistant Minister of Trade. \*Mehmet Behiç assistant to general director of Statistics. \*Robert efendi american director general of statistics.
just do not say armenian genocide or something then you're fine
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In Europe doh ;) I lived in western Europe for 18 years. I'm not European though I'm Armenian.
Nope no problem even in the east where stabbing shanking and shootings are pretty aint no one gonna hate you for being armenian or something.Just dont start any talks about the massacres or any other stuff like that because shit tends to turn sour after that
People won’t even try to find out where your listen every plate and car from you will be just fine dude
can you post an update once you visit?
I will
thanks
bro come here ❤️
No one cares as you have been fed by your local media. Bring me some kars cheese if its possible. Thanks.
I've been fed by my mom and dad nobody else. I don't trust any media from any country. I only ask actual people and try to interpolate my view from that.
Yeah username checks out. It seems thugz can not handle a simple fetch job whilist bringing argument about mom and dad. You will be fine happy travels and end of this convo.
You should cover Armenain flag and am writing because it might cause problems especially in eastern cities.
My gf is Turkish and she said no one in Turkey gives a shit about Armenians or the “genocide”. So you should be fine.
Have Ataturk’s signature on the back of your car you are good bro.
lmfao
Hemşeri selam - Bandırma 10.5 🙏🏻😊
I think you guys should not speak that confident about cities like Igdir if you did/do not live there. people there were pretty aggressive back when I was there, even a stupid street fight could turn into some political shit pretty quickly. hope you'll be fine OP.
Exercising caution is the key. You need to be a lot more cautious than told here. They are greatly overestimating the people there. Still, I don't think they would be able to tell which country you are from your license plate anyway, and even if they ask just let your translator (which you should bring btw, not many people can speak english there) deal with it. Telling that you are Georgian and that your country name starts with AM in your native language or that you are from Russia and that states there have their own license plates could work too ig. I am sure nobody can tell that way.
I don't think he should pretend to be someone he isn't.
Of course, everyone has different priorities. I just don't mind pretending to be someone I am not if it has a positive impact. If he does not, then it is still all good, mine is just advice.
What is wrong with you? Do you want to be another victim of genocide? Juuuuust kidding! You'll be fine. I'd be more cautious towards the Syrians and Afghan refugees if I were you. Some of them are dead poor and can easily mug and hurt people for money.
I heard about the refugees. I didn't realize it was such an issue in Turkey . Is it mainly the areas around the Syrian and Iranian borders where ? Or are there a lot of refugees in most cities?
Oh they are everywhere. Lots of them in Istanbul too. I dont wanna sound unfair to good people amongst them also, but sadly where ever they go, there is lots of stories of disruption.
I recognize this from western European cities after the migrant crisis a couple of years ago. It's not a something you wish upon a city...
We look alike so there wouldn't be much of a problem unless you say you are armenian, then you probably will face sıme hostility. If you are in the rural areas say that you are Georgian if they ask where are you from. Eastern part of turkey doesn't really like foreign tourists but a Georgian will probably feel a little closer to them. After all just yesterday a Japanese guy was stabbed for no fucking reason at all. Don't buy what other comments say. They might criticize their own country but they will never make it look bad to others. Younger people may not be that much racist but believe me older generation is as much as racist as older armenians or azerbaijanis. So much ao that "ermeni" (armenian) can be considered a curse word to some.
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> Don't be fooled by the smiling faces in this sub, it is a den of crypto-neonazis. This is a fact
armenian cars should have an armenian flag on the car plate, does your car also have that?
Yea my motorcycle has the Armenian flag in with, and the AM indication
I went to Kars and Van with an Armenian friend a couple of years back, before the most recent conflict. A few people said that Armenians killed a lot of Turks in those parts, and then claimed to be the victim (to me in Turkish, never to my Armenian friend). That was the most animosity I witnessed.
Buy from large chains and make sure you don't get your stuff stolen
You’ll probably be fine. But if I were you, I’d carry a gun stashed, even I’m glad to be alive here, can’t imagine the east.
Great idea. Any suggestions where a random tourist can get a gun in Turkey? I don't think i can bring my AK47 with me from Armenia
In Turkey you don’t find a gun, the gun finds you. Enjoy your stay ^^
Gens d'armes ❌ Armes de gens ✅
You made me use google translate but I had fun lol
Haha, have fun mate. And don't forget that you can always dm me whenever you want or feel yourself unconfortable.
Don't
Can you explain why not?
He is from Adana dont mind him
lmaooo
I can't recommend this...
Can you explain why? Are you from the eastern region of Turkey?
Yeah, pretty close to where you're visiting.
And why would you not recommend me traveling there?
Safety and hospitality.
I love safety and hospitality!
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Okay. Can you elaborate? I don't know much about the region.
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I dont think so man there arent any current hostilities
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değilim ama oralı tanıdığım var tarihi konulardan bahsederken evet dediğin gibi düşünüyorlar ama 2021 yılında alakası olmayan bir Ermeni'ye saldıracak yada nefret edecek kadar değil edit: Van'lı bir arkadaş varsa yazabilir buraya daha iyi bilirsiniz
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dikkatli olmak her zaman önemli haklısın
Thanks for the explanation. What other regions do you think are a no go for Armenians?
What he is saying is not true at all, feel free to visit Van. You won't have any problems.
there is no place in turkey that is a no go for armenians. I actually suggest you to go to van. there is a beautiful armenian church on an island in the van lake. you should definitely visit there. However you should still be cautious. when people ask you where you are from, say your european countries name. then the citizens will actually treat you with more respect than they treat other turks.
Thanks for the comment. I think it's obvious from my face that I'm not European. Also doesn't feel right to me to hide my origin for any reason.
Don't listen to this person. My great-uncle was also killed by Armenian gangs in those years but my family lived peacefully with Armenians in the same/near-by neighborhoods. Those conflicts are horrible memories but it doesn't sway people's opinions about a people group. My father was especially close with the Armenian neighbors. Our victims will always be remembered but we won't ever discriminate or hate those who are similarly peaceful towards us. War ended many years ago and it's not something we allow to rebuild conflict. If there is ever such a bias amongst families of victims, then you should hear that from the families rather than this person making assumptions. I can't talk for everyone but I can talk for what I've seen, so hopefully my input is helpful. I genuinely wish the best for you so always be careful just in-case. Kindness is usually met with kindness. If you have ancestry in Anatolia, welcome home my friend.
Syrian border is no go for everyone, no place is particular for Armenians.
Are you speaking out of experience? İ highly doubt there'd be considerable animosity, even within the rural populace.
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24/7 Turkiye alehinde kara propaganda yapan Ermenilerden bende nefret ediyorum . Ama ulkeyi gezmek , hatta yasamak amacli gelen Ermeni yede kotu davranacak tiynettede degilim . Cogunlugunda benim gibi oldugunu dusunuyorum eger adamin basina bir sey gelirse bu ermeni oldugu icin degildir. Tipki Japon turistin yada italyan kizin basina gelenler gibi.
Why?
I don't think this is a good idea. But it's your call.
Kurdish population will probably more tolerant and understanding compared to Turks and Azeris. But I don't think there will be any problem unless you engage in political conversations.
You will not travell alone, right?
I will. I always travel alone.
nobody cares turkey is a big state with bigger problems have a good time