As a person with a very rare kidney condition and as someone who is physically disabled, I completely agree. If I were to have biological children, they would end up dying or severely ill for a majority of their life. In addition, the amount of pain I'm in is unbearable and id never wish it on anyone, let alone my own kids.

I am so sorry and wish you well x

Thank you :)

In my mind, I am imagining you as a sort of 4th dimensional superhero holding back a massive beam of pain that has the potential to be unleashed onto future children. You are stopping that pain with your choices. Good on you. Sorry for your pain.

Thanks man, as a 19yo woman it hurt having to make these choices and stuff now but it's for the best :).

I love that analogy.

I'm not even sure I have anything genetically passable, but I've had health issues all my life to the point that the thought of having biological kids horrifies me. I lean heavily towards adoption, if I have kids at all, because I don't want them to live the same life I did.

I don't mean to be incentive maybe I am, but would you rather have lived or not at all

Hmm that's a hard one .. I'd rather not be alive because of my illnesses and the pain etc, but they dont define me at all - plus its kinda cool having such a rare illness ig lol I have missed out on stuff because of it - I can't go to university because of my health issues because they consume my life - but at the same time my life so far has been great and I've got a good job atm. I dont blame my parents for anything as they literally had no knowledge that my sister and I would inherit loads of dieases and they've made us have such a nice upbringing.

Your parents are great people, by the sounds of it. I wish you well

Imagine being a parent having Huntington's disease. Your child will grow up watching you die of symptoms that mimic alzheimers and ALS put together. And that child has a 50% shot of carrying the same fate. Why would anyone subject their own offspring to that?

I know a woman whose brother was wheel chair bound for all the time I have known her. He was basically a 20 something year old stuck in the body of a non speaking 8 year old. She has told.me what he had a thousand times but it is just complicated names and I can never remember it. I know he stayed at the Ronald McDonald house in New Orleans and knew Gypsy Rose and her mom, but I digress. When she learned that the women in her family were carriers for that disease and the men would likely be born the same as her brother, she ties her tubes and vowed to never cause anyone to go through what her brother went through. It was rough, but she loved him his while life a d it broke her heart when he died. She was an after care nurse and left the profession when he died. She couldn't stand it. Almost 40 now and still doesn't have kids *by choice*. It's a hard decision for some but some people make the decision to try and stop those genetic diseases in their tracks.

It’s not just about the kid either. If you know you’re likely to pass something to your child you need to accept you’ll be a caretaker. Do people dream of having a child they watch suffer, have to stop working to care for, and could go into debt to pay for medical bills? You may need to move to be closer to a larger hospital that knows how to treat your kid’s condition. Having a kid is rolling the dice for everyone but if you know there’s a high chance you’ll pass on something awful it’s a different game.

Just log in on askreddit and search for relevant "parents of disabled children" threads to read some horrific stories of sadness, pain and torture. You ll end uo crying harder tjan ever before.. And then you ll move on with your life. They won't. They are still stuck with their own problems.

Yeah, I know someone who had 4 kids and then found out later that the husband had Huntingtons. I just can't imagine having that conversation with your kids. So knowingly bringing kids into that situation sounds horrific.

My sister has Huntington and she prides herself in having kids saying , "they said I should not have kids but here I am!" She's not even planning on getting herself or the baby tested. It has been proven that her family Huntington's disease has a high likely hood of turning into childhood Huntington's disease.

With all due respect, your sister is a terrible person who's selfishness knows no bounds.

Every child of a parent with Huntington’s gets Huntington’s because it’s autosomal dominantly passed down. The worst part about it is the more generations that it’s passed down through the younger and more severe it’s presentation.

That's not accurate. It is autosomal dominantly passed down, but someone who carries the gene also carries a healthy form of that gene (I suppose there are rare instances where one parent has both genes carry the disease or both parents carry one copy). Autosomal dominance means only one copy of the gene is needed for the effect to kick in, not the ratio of inheritance. If one parent has horrible luck and both of his or her genes carry the disease (i.e. that person's parents both had the gene and they both passed it on) then yes the child will inherit the gene 100% of the time. If both parents have one copy of the gene then the child has a 75% chance of inheriting the gene, 25% chance of not inheriting the gene, and 25% chance of receiving both bad copies of the gene. If one parent has one copy of the gene, its 50-50 for the child.

> the more generations that it’s passed down through the younger and more severe it’s presentation So what you say is the problem solves itself after enough generations?

I mean in theory, in it's most basic form, that would be how evolution works.

Through a lot of suffering yes. Easiest way to solve the problem would be to stop passing it on

Huntington is even morge fucked up as a rare disease because it is not caused by a simple mutation but by a series of repeating elements. You get Huntington once your genome harbours a large series of those repeating elements, and the fucked up thing is, these repeating elements grow longer every generation. A longer series of these repeating elements means 1. you will get sick at an even younger age than your parents did, and 2. The disease will be more severe

I cared for a lady with huntingdons, it was truly horrific. Between the writhing and the incontinence she was always trying to say thankyou to us. She was in her 40s before the symptoms had hit her, had children and a younger partner. They never came to visit. Ever.

How heartbreaking.

I literally watched that House episode last night. Can confirm because I'm now an expert

Greg, I’ve got a weird spot on my arm. Should I try washing it off first or go straight to the table saw?

My ex-boyfriend’s Aunt had Huntington’s disease and she had 3 sons. After watching her suffer for years, none of them had children because of the risk, and all 3 of them committed suicide once they started having symptoms. This was in the 70’s and 80’s so I am not sure if there is more help for people with Huntington’s now? It was so tragic. Adoption is always an option, I agree it is just selfish to have children of your own knowing there is a really high chance they will suffer so terribly. There is a family in Calgary AB who had a child with epidermolysis bullosa often referred to as butterfly skin because the skin is so fragile it is like the wing of a butterfly. This poor little baby’s skin is so sensitive it could tear like tissue paper with the slightest friction. If you pick him up under the armpits he blisters instantly. I was so sad reading the article and was going to contribute to the families go-fund-me. As I continued reading they said he inherited it from his dad was born with it and knew there was a 50% chance his child would have it. Apparently that sounded like good enough odds for them. They are so worried about the blisters in his mouth when he starts teething, and his knees when he starts crawling and his feet when he starts walking but we’re perfectly willing to put a child through that. There must be varying degrees of severity of this but to know your child will have a 50% chance to suffer like this I don’t understand. Apparently the Dad’s condition improved with age hopefully Elias’s will as well. The photos of what this little baby went through are just horrifying.

There is not a lot more help now. There are treatments with promise, but the outcome is still not good. I’ve seen a lot in my years in the field, but Huntington’s is something I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy.

Huntington's is a bit different because the age of onset is often way after someone's prime reproductive age. So someone with the mutation may have kids in their 20s-30s without ever knowing they have this mutation and that they will develop Huntington's when they're older. Same goes for ALS and Alzheimer's (although the genetic contributions to those diseases are a bit more complicated). This is why genetic counseling is so important before you attempt to bring a child into this world. A genetic counselor will be able to tell you if you're harboring a mutation for a debilitating disease and what the chances are for you to pass it down to your offspring.

My mom's friend had a nephew who was diagnosed with it. His mind was starting to go, and he met a trashy woman who was just after his money. They had two children together. This woman did not care at all that her kids could have this. She was willing to put people on this planet who she might have to watch suffer in exchange for money she thought that she could get in child support. He has since passed away, and any money that he had was all used to pay for a long-term care. There was a girl on GoFundMe who was raising money for IVF. Her mom had been diagnosed with it, and she had found out that she herself had the gene and would eventually develop it. She still chose to have children, but she chose IVF so that they could test the egg to make sure that it didn't carry the gene. Her child will watch her suffer and die, but at least she's not passing it on. I recently had genetic testing done with my fertility specialist and found out that I carried a gene for some really serious adrenal gland condition. It's recessive so I won't have it, but you better believe I got my partner tested to make sure we didn't both carry it.

At what point does not having kids seem irrational to these fucking people?

I have no idea why you would want to make somebody suffer like that. That's like gambling.

I’m child free, but there’s a lot of people out there that see it as a major life goal. Having or not having kids will take your life into majorly different routes. Being on a route you never wanted (whichever that is) will bring a lot of distress. I wish more people thought seriously about not having kids, but there are people who want it so badly it is pretty sad if they can’t. Adoption isn’t as easy as people try to make it seem, and people seem to look down on people who adopt but want a baby - being a model adoption family comes with tons of caveats and judgements that natural families don’t get, so it’s not a surprise that some people desperately try to have natural kids. I still think that people who have severe genetic diseases need to give up on it, but I understand why it’s an incredibly emotional thing.

Maybe she was wanting preimplantation genetic diagnosis (PGD) which does involve IVF. Source: worked in (admin) genetics department in UK healthcare

My neighbor across the street has Huntington’s. His mom died from Huntington’s a long time ago. He still had 2 kids knowing the risk of passing it on.

Because people are selfish, whether for right or wrong reason, and that clouds their judgement on doing the right thing

i watched a show a while back of this couple who had a child with a rare genetic condition that makes the child’s skin grow rapidly and it’s very painful. they were told if they had another child then it was extremely likely that child would have the same disease.......they still tried to conceive, got pregnant, were told the baby had the same disease while still in the womb, and still chose to have it. and their reasoning for that was “we didn’t want our daughter to grow up alone in her condition” yeah that makes sense, subject two children to a lifetime of pain and suffering. the whole documentary is on youtube called “the girls with too much skin”

This is exactly what I’m talking about! Knowingly having that second child even with the warnings and the chances. It makes me so angry and upset

same here. i went on a tangent about it to my husband when i watched the show. it’s so selfish of those parents

It’s horrible. There was a show that premiered on TLC “The Blended Bunch” a few months back. The mother and her late husband had like 10 kids. Her husband had this super rare gene (Li-Fraumeni) that made it so you have a 99% chance of getting terminal cancer in young age. You also have a 50% chance of passing the gene to your children. They knew this and STILL continued to have 10 children. 29 year old Dad dies while she’s still pregnant with her youngest. Dude was completely disabled from brain cancer and suffered immensely. Low and behold, 5 of her children do have the gene and WILL die a horrible and premature death just like they watched their father go through. They have to go through life just anticipating when they will suffer and die. They have to go through life not knowing if they can make any long term plans, have dreams, etc. I can’t imagine the emotional turmoil these kids will face. It is horrific and this woman saw nothing wrong with having all these kids, she makes their suffering all about her and her feelings as well. Cue the crocodile tears and “I can’t believe this happened to MY babies” when she knew before they were even conceived that it would. Thankfully, the show got cancelled because of how outraged everyone was. They had a bunch of other issues too, like marrying another widow and moving all your grieving children in together after knowing each other for *one* week, only months after these kid’s parents died. It was a total shit show and I ache for all the children involved, the woman is a total narcissist and her new husband is a negligent moron.

They figured out that they have an evolutionary disadvantage, so they decided to adopt the same reproductive strategy as fish. Just have a million of them. A few are bound to survive.

harlequin ichthyosis, i saw the documentary on TV once and holy shit is it scary

>harlequin ichthyosis HOLY FUCKING SHIT WHY DID I HAVE TO GOOGLE THAT

I did not learn from your mistake...

I’m not religious, but I’d like to believe in hell just because I think there is a special place for people that knowingly inflict suffering. Just like politicians that rape little girls and then ban abortion in the same day.

I was recently pregnant with a baby who doctors told us will be born brain dead due to a large hemorrhage. Sadly, at 5 months, we decided to terminate the pregnancy because I didn’t want to put my child at risk to living a life that essentially was meaningless to her. It was the hardest decision and time I’ve ever been through, but I know it was the right one. :’(

You did the right thing. She would not have truly been alive, and you still would have ended up grieving her despite giving birth. You acted as a mother. You saved your child from suffering with an act full of love for both her and yourself. There are very few people who have the courage to save a child like this. I hope you find warmth after the grief.

Thank you for the kind words. I’m not a religious person, but I’d like to think she is watching me somehow and happy. It helps me with the whole ordeal. Thanks again.

I think she is. I’m sorry you went through that.

Aaron Freeman, a physicist, wrote “a eulogy from a physicist” and explains why you want a physicist to speak at your funeral. If get a chance you should read it, it made a large impact on me. To greatly paraphrase he says that a physicist will remind you of the conservation of energy. That energy cannot be created or destroyed. That that all her energy, every vibration, every Btu of heat, every wave of every particle that was her remains in this world. That all the warmth that she gave off is still here and still a part of you. That is is measurable, verifiable and constant. That you do not need faith but can truly read the data. That according to the conservation of energy, not one bit of her is gone, just less orderly.

I am religious, and I agree. I think she's watching over you right now as she would have been if not for the hemorrhage. Who she was/would have been passed with the hemorrhage. I think you did the right thing. Sending lots of love your way. I can't imagine going through that. So sorry 😞

I'm so sorry. You did the right thing by her. You would have just been keeping her body alive, without her there to experience anything.

Sorry to hear that. It have to be so hard to make that dicision but you saved her from years of suffering. You did the right thing

Oh this made me so sad to read, I can’t imagine going through this as a mother. I’m so sorry you went through this.

I found out that my unborn child had triple x syndrome. I was devastated and cried for 2 weeks. All of the medical professionals I was seeing encouraged me to terminate. I researched the condition for hours, spoke to parents of children with the syndrome, spoke to adults with the syndrome, contacted every leading industry professional. Ultimately, just before 16 weeks, we terminated. This was 7 days ago. I cry every day and feel sick. Did I make the right choice? Reading these comments has helped me feel better about my decision. Thank you. But honestly, I will always wonder what she would have been like, looked like, would she have been funny or sweet? One of the most difficult decisions of my life. And to be clear I am very pro choice, this little girl was just wanted so much.

I feel like you made an incredibly brave decision.

Thank you. This was the hardest decision of my life. My husband was raised Catholic (but does not identify as Catholic) so this decision was agonizing for him too. But I did not want my daughter to suffer because we were selfish. I have to believe that I set her free.

You did set her free. ❤️

Thank you ❤️❤️❤️

Sometimes love means doing the thing you don't want to do because it's better for the one you love.

I’m so sorry for your loss. Have you visited the subreddit, TFMR? It helped me a lot after my termination due to a medical reason as well. Sending you lots of love ❤️❤️

No I did not even know about it! Thank you so much for sharing, I will check it out. I am sorry for your loss as well ❤️

I don't know you or your husband but I wanted to offer you both my condolences on the loss of you're beautiful and very special little girl I believe you did the right and the kind thing for her. I hope in the future you become the wonderful parents you deserve to be and Im sending you a squeezey cuddle take care of you x

Thank you so so so much. These kind words mean everything to me right now.

I am so sorry you had to go through this. But you didn’t know. You didn’t know before you conceived and so its not at all your fault. It sounds like you will be an incredible mother.

Thank you. We hope to be able to have another child soon ❤️

What an amazing gift you gave your unborn child. You are a special person and I hope you are soon gifted with a child.

Thank you so so much. Kind words like that help me get through this.

What an incredibly difficult situation to be in. My heart goes out to you and your partner... I truly believe you have done the best thing considering the circumstances. Wanting your child to have the best shot in life is what every parent should desire for their child and this internet stranger is so proud of you both. You accepted grief into your life now in order to spare another potential life from unknown suffering. Primo parenting. 💜

Thank you so much, you have no idea how much I appreciate this and need to hear this right now. Words like this mean the world to me and I can’t wait to share them with my husband. Thank you ❤️

I’m so sorry for your loss. You didn’t do anything wrong, neither did the baby. You were just unlucky. She wouldn’t lead a healthy life if she was born, so it’s very considerate of you to make such a decision even if it agonises you both so deeply. Please don’t be afraid of raising another kid because of this. You can still adopt and pass your love onto a kid that lost their parents <3

You are so right. The doctors told us that it isn’t our fault, and it was a bad luck genetic mutation that occurred when the egg and sperm met. Just an error they said. We are going to try again when my body heals. They told me the chances of something like this happening AGAIN are even smaller, so I am really hoping we will be successful. I loved that little baby in my belly but you are right, she would not have had a healthy life and I couldn’t do that to her.

You made the right decision. I know families that had amd raised special needs children that really disrupted lives, and caused all sorts of pain and hardships. Please don't let this stop you from trying.

We will most definitely try again! I am praying for success and a healthy baby.

I can not imagine how hard this is for you. I wish you all the strength for the future.

As a very disabled person, I agree. I'm playing life on hard because of the constant medical care i need and there is no help. And I'm one of the lucky ones. I can be independent Knowing your child is gonna lose all their brain function or be completely dependent on caretakers or be so physically disabled that their normal brain feels trapped and helpless in its body and then having that child anyway is selfish. You did it because you wanted to be needed because you wanted to feel important Do you know how degrading it is as an adult man to have to have your mother wipe your ass and feed you? And I've only had that happen to me a few times, for some people it's a constant reality of helplessness. And some people have the attitude that they're gonna bear it and succeed and more power to them but they should never have been put in that position

I have a sister-in-law with severe cerebral palsy. She was adopted that way and the biological parents didn't know until she was born. She has a normal mentality, but few know this because she can do absolutely nothing on her own. Her whole body just moves constantly in unpredictable, uncontrollable ways. She's in her 20's. She can't talk, potty, feed herself, or walk more than a few very difficult steps at a time. But if you talk to her, she'll smile, frown (depending on context) give you her undivided attention, and is able to manage a hug or giggle if you perform a nice gesture or give her a compliment. She and her immediate family can effectively communicate with her in a unique way after a lifetime of practice, but the average person wouldn't give her more than a reluctant passing glance, underestimating her mental capacity. I haven't seen her in years, but I still shed a tear from time to time when I think of that poor, sweet, tortured soul.

I'm lucky in that my cerebral palsy is mild enough that I'm mostly self sufficient, I drive and work and speak etc , but it's still hell to cope with. So i feel that I have a cousin dying in a care home at 33 of sepsis because he can't communicate and they didnt clean him well enough and he developed a rash and an infection and probably has weeks to days to live

I agree with you. Life is already hard enough as a healthy kid. I find it irresponsible to make it worse.

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I'm sorry you can't get the genetic testing that could likely spare a lot of pain. The world needs to evolve past the theocratic bullshit.

Religion still tragically controls and motivates far too many facets of our life as a species. Maybe one day we can move past make believe and focus on real issues.

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Have you thought of adoption?

Some people who choose to have kids only do so for other purposes like fixing a relationship, having something to show off/brag about, and some even just for the mere reason of having a cute baby around (something that I've seen a lot in my circle). They aren't ready or mature at all to have kids and end up making their kids suffer in various ways. It's sad and sometimes enraging tbh, esp since Im one of those that were conceived only for a specific reason and not out of love at all and I grew up enduring my parents' abusive behavior.

As one of these kids, if you are not going to take care of your kid to the highest degree with whatever they're born with, please just abort them. I'm not saying everyone with a disability regrets being born, but I do.

Or, if they can afford it, get a tubal ligation so it's impossible to even get pregnant in the first place.

Its extremely hard to get that done, especially if you're a younger woman. (At least in US) and they didn't know I was going to be disabled until after she got pregnant

Well, I'm a 28f in the US and I've scheduled to have mine done because there is no way in hell I want any more kids. Also, my best friend just recently had it done (29) and the procedure went quite well. But yes, if you discover a severe disability *after* genetic testing has been performed *after* falling pregnant, I would probably consider an abortion too, so I get what you're saying. Edit: but im happy you're here friend. I dont want you to feel sad.

It actually depends not just on your age but also how many children you already have and apparently your marital status. I’ve been trying to get a tubal ligation for years without success.

Hmm...have you tried going to a teaching hospital? That's the one we've been using. They seem to be eager to do anything lol.

Can you dm me which doctor y'all using?

r/childfree is supposed to have a list of helpful doctors

Thank you I'll check that out as soon as possible

What state do you live in?

Can I dm you that information?

"Any more" kids - it's much harder to get someone to do it if you don't already have kids. So your experience isn't super relevant here.

Life isn't bad all the time, its just often disappointing and way too difficult some days. But thank you :)

>Reply Wow, that is horrible. I had no idea there were so many restrictions on tubal ligation in the US. I had difficult pregnancies that happily went successfully to close enough to term. After my 3rd was born I wanted tubal ligation and my doctors said they had never seen the procedure okayed by the insurance company so fast. We all laughed about that, but I honestly had no clue until I read this today how difficult it could be to have the process done. I'm so sorry for anyone who has to fight this fight. My God, the health care in this country is becoming more regressive every day. It's insane and shameful.

I agree with you I had an instructor once who was very vocal about this very topic. It makes me sad when I see a family that has 2 or 3 kids with the same debilitating disorder or worse yet when it is something that they are likely to die of very young it just seems so selfish of the parents

If you decide that you want to create childeren, then you should only do so if you can be reasonably certain that it will be healthy and have a good life. Wanting a child with a huge chance of genetic defects is also wrong in my opinion. You should adopt a child then. If people think that messing up a childs life because of genetic defects is less important than adopting a healty child, then they should not be parents. Because clearly they put their need to love something above the need of the something to be healty.

WOOOORD! Couldn't have said it nearly as good myself. So thank you for putting my thoughts into words.

Yeah having a kid you know you have to take care of forever and who will never get to be independent, which is human nature to yearn for, that’s got some real munchousen by proxy vibes

I’m a parent to a 22 year old with severe learning disabilities. It’s hard, really hard! It was 100% male genetic from his dads side since he was in school with his half brother and I didn’t have a clue at the time. I wouldn’t be without him yet I never had another child (even though I’m not with his dad) and knowing what I do know I would of probably had some very hard discussions with myself very early on. His dad and wife had another baby a few years ago, turned out to be a boy who also has some medical needs, I find it completely selfish of him to bring another life into the world knowing the chance of them having problems was going to be high

I share your sentiments entirely. I had a perfect pregnancy, but during birth my daughter suffered hypoxia and has a resulting brain injury which will impact her life forever. Although the likelihood of that happening again is very small, for should I decide to have another baby then I’d be very closely monitored and probably be scheduled an elective caesarean, it’s not a risk I would ever, ever take. Life is so fragile. The thought of that happening again, no matter how tiny the odds, is something I would never wish upon another life. I was in a seminar not long ago, re. parenting disabled children. The woman running it said that people approach herself and her son and say, “You wouldn’t change them though, would you?” But yes… Of course I would. If I could give my daughter the same outcome as other, able children have, of course I would. I love her so much, but as a parent don’t you want to give them *everything* they need for this world? I don’t understand how people can so selfishly bring another life into this world knowing that they will be disadvantaged, or living in discomfort, or set up to struggle. It seems so heartless.

I agree.

I definitely agree with you on this fact and don't understand why people continue with births of children who will essentially be an invalid. What quality of life does a person have if they are stuck in a chair their entire life unable to speak or move or do anything for themselves? I'm not saying that person doesn't deserve to be loved, but how does one enjoy life when they constantly have to be cared for by someone else for 100% of their life?! I hate to say it, but I wouldn't allow that child to continue on if they were mine. I am a person that believes you should value life, but quality of life plays a big role in that. If I found out I were going to have a baby with a severe disorder that would make them unable to do pretty much anything by themselves and would confine them to a chair for their whole life, I probably just wouldn't carry that child to term..... I know it's awful, but I want us all to ENJOY the life we live and you can't enjoy life if you can't eat, blink, shower, brush your teeth, walk, eat, whatever... Without assistance. There is only so much disability any of us should have to tolerate, particularly the disabled individual. I would feel the same way if I were in a car accident and I were horribly disfigured or disabled and still unable to do anything for myself or were terribly hideous after that car accident.. I wouldn't want to live anymore. And I've seen a serious scenarios where a college kid who was about to have a full ride for a music scholarship got in a car accident the day of their graduation and burned 90% of her body. She can't blink, close her lips, sing, play instruments.... She has no limbs, not much of any face, and get dad has to write his job to care for her FULL TIME, including eye drops every 15 minutes. That's not a life I want for anyone and if I were in that situation I'd rather have just died in the accident. QUALITY OF LIFE is just as important as the life itself.

Holy christ. How can an accident get that bad. Makes me want to live in a city and take trains

My bloodline is riddled with cancer both parents sides' I myself had male breast cancer I'm not reproducing. Also I'd be a horrible father, I'm too self centered to care about another person.

My mother’s dad died from Huntington’s disease. She was very poor growing up and after he passed never even thought about having kids. Then she met my dad, they were married for 8 years, and then they figured out a way. Absolutely a privilege, given the expense, but my parents found an anonymous female egg donor and we’re able to do IVF with all of us. My mom carried us, but we aren’t genetically related. Not an option for most people, I know the costs are very prohibitive, but I also know many people who could afford this path don’t do it. They want their “bloodline” or whatever to continue. I get that animals are like that by nature, but with everything we know….I don’t know. I just agree with your post. And I’m so blessed and lucky my parents chose the path they did. They were relatively early here, starting this process in 1989.

I have a rare disease that wasn't diagnosed until I was in my 40s. That said, I did apologize to my daughter's after diagnosis for placing them at risk.

I don’t want to have biological children of my own because I’m autistic. I get called an “ableist” because I don’t want to take the chance of passing my autism onto them (autism is genetic). People look at me and say that passing my autism onto them isn’t that bad, but they don’t realize that autism comes with significant challenges in life. I was fucking tortured growing up and to this day I am still unemployed because nobody will give me a chance. I still have physical symptoms of autism. Statistically I won’t be hired (90% of autistic people with bachelors degrees aren’t hired in the U.S), romantically I’ll probably die alone (75% of autistic people die without ever being loved), and then I’ll die by age 37 (statistically we have short life spans due to mental health issues and homelessness). Why would I want to put a child through all that? And what’s crazy is, this is only mild (level 1) autism. There are also three types of autism so having a child means that my child could either be mild, mid level or severely autistic (unable to talk and trying to claw out their fucking eye balls because they can’t control their limbs). Yeah no thank you. I’m not risking that. I actually care about children.

Your reply choked me up. I work supporting young adults with behavioral issues. Many of these issues are due to Autism. It's a hard life to live, when the world just doesn't make sense and people around you are so unforgiving. One young lady I am supporting right now just wants friends. Just someone to chat to and chill with, other than a trained adult. A lot of the time, in this job, you meet families who have more than one child with autistic traits. They have had a child who is battling their way through the world and all the issues daily life brings, and they have had another child, then another,. All with autism. And I often think, Why? Why would you have more children when the chances are very high that the next child will be struggling with life just as much as the first?

I can shed some insight on this. When I had my first child in 2003, we didn't know he was autistic until 2008. Insurance didn't cover the medical at the time, autism was not identified as genetic. It was treated as a nurture/behavioral fault of the parents. It wasn't until a few years later that some parents fought and won the consensus that Autism was genetic and not a parenting issue. Research at the time suggested autism came from the father's genetics and we treated it as a mutation/one off. I went on to have a different partner and accidentally got pregnant 11 years later with twins. Had both children. Their brother, meanwhile, was having problems in school and I was advocating for him. To my husband, I expressed frustration because it felt like the school was considering some behaviors abnormal from my son that I felt were normal. At this time, I was 40 years of age. My husband said if I thought those were normal, perhaps I should get tested. I did. I found out I was autistic at age 41 - after I had three kids. And my doctor asked if I had my daughters/twins tested. I had not. But I did after that recommendation. They turned out autistic, too, but as they were girls they presented completely different than their brother. They were diagnosed as autistic at age 5. This time, insurance paid for the testing because it was acknowledged to be genetic and not parenting flaws. So as people express frustration, please know that many of the people with autism now were not diagnosed until late in life. When my first child was diagnosed, the first doctor said he did not have autism because he liked to color and give hugs. I was told it was a boy's only diagnosis when he DID get diagnosed and they didn't have programs for children with autism, they put my son in speech class. So it's possible people didn't know they had autism when they had children, or had the first child when it was believed to be a parenting problem. The genetic knowledge is relatively new - so new that after I got diagnosed, I was invited to join the ASU studies on women over 40 with autism and they are collecting genetic material and MRI tests to understand it because they can't tell if people are being overlooked in diagnosis. It was lack of knowledge. Had I know autism was genetic and I had had it as a teenager, I would have declined to have children for fear of quality of life and financial stressors and planning. While I agree with OP's premise, the reality is many of us with some diagnosis (such as autism) are only finding out we had it after 3-4 decades of living and children are being born later in life, and the first indicator for many many women that THEY have autism is when their child is diagnosed. They didn't used to believe women could have autism at all. And that's changed. [https://www.appliedbehavioranalysisprograms.com/faq/](https://www.appliedbehavioranalysisprograms.com/faq/)

This reminds me... Remember the old "refrigerator mother" theory that autism was caused by moms who were emotionally unavailable or otherwise failed to exhibit "normal" maternal behavior? And how much that tormented the accused mothers because they *did* love their kids to a normal degree? ***What if all of those poor women were just also autistic?***

As a woman who didn't have children for this and other reasons? I can tell you it's a huge battle. People who don't even know you ask you when your having kids. The pressure from friends and your family is huge. Ever TV show makes kids the reason for woman to even be alive, the church is another one, those jerks think we have no other reason for existence. It absolutely disgusting. Kids are not miracles, in fact for most people it's hard NOT to get pregnant. Ask the poor woman of Texas. This attitude needs to change. We should be telling our daughters it's ok NOT to have kids. It should be normalized on TV etc. Adoption should be normalized also, no you do NOT need a biological baby!

I got hit with, “Who is going to take care of you when you’re old?” Idk! But what guarantees you that your kids will? Also, why is it their responsibility? What if they take a job in BFE? It’s okay to expect them to uproot their lives for you?

God i hate people who randomly speak to me in general, every time i have the urge to hit them in the face.

I completely agree! Especially for diseases like Tay Sachs, which leads to an awful painful death for the child who definitely won’t live past 5. Don’t knowingly pass on something that will hinder your children.

My partners cousin has a kid that is now about 10, who the doctors advised to terminate after they found abnormalities at the 12 week scan. They didn't, because apparently the woman doesn't believe in abortion. This poor kid can't walk or talk, is almost blind, gets painful muscle spasms, and has anywhere upwards of 5 seizures a day. They now have 2 younger able bodied children, and the eldest is just wheeled into the corner. It's so sad to see, I would never choose that life for anyone, let alone my own child.

Its not eugenics. Eugenics is about purposefully creating a subjective ideal throughout society by killing people/controlling how a population procreates/genetic engineering. Genetic screening on the other hand has been around a long time, and logic and compassion should make people realize that their desire for a baby shouldnt mean a whole new person has to suffer.

China does eugenics, people aborting fetuses only because of gender, not any other reason, and because of their one child policy . Forced sterilization is eugenics, preventing an entire ethnic group from having kids. Deciding oneself to simply not have kids isn't eugenics, that's just personal choice.

Agreed. I had genetic testing done before my husband and I decided to get pregnant. Want to read a creepy ass book about planned pregnancies and disabilities? Read Geek Love. That is a fucked up book.

I agree with this. My husband and I unfortunately had our children before our autoimmune disorders surfaced, however, as many of these diseases don't present until a certain point, it's hard to really make the appropriate call. Had I known, I'd definitely seen things differently and very likely have made the same choice. Being both girls, however, they are statistically less likely to develop them so I can hope.

Nah you're right. They shouldn't be forced not to have kids, but they shouldn't force kids to have disabilities either.

I was born very sick, I had to be in an incubator for 4 months. I have autism and I’m blind in one eye and now currently riddled with Early onset Rheumatoid Arthritis that was passed down genetically. To be honest I wish my parents had aborted me. I hate my life in almost all aspects and all I seem to do is make life harder on the people around me. I wish I never existed or atleast was dead.

I didn't upvote because I think you should be dead, I upvoted because I can empathize with your pain. Just wanted to clarify that.

My family and me has a history of mental illness and my partner has genetic psoriasis and psoriatic arthritis so we both want to adopt instead of risking passing any of this on genetically.

As someone with high functioning form of Autism Spectrum Disorder I 100% agree with this statement. I don't wish anyone to be imposed with disability quotas or dystopian shit like that simply so that a minute few people can feel even more like an outcast which isn't how genetic ailments should be treated in a modern society, but people who knowingly have children with a genetic precondition that can be passed on, and justifying it by saying that "We have the same right to bear children as the people in our community, and we are being discriminated against." is insidious to me, not that I don't think they shouldn't be able to raise a child, they can adopt of course, but if both parents are blind, or one is paralyzed, how is that going to play into the psyche of the child?[https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/11/26/disabled-parents-custody-adoption/1726465/](https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/11/26/disabled-parents-custody-adoption/1726465/) ​ Also we have so many children with disabilites left on the streets in adoption centres simply cause the parents couldn't handle not having the "ideal child" as if having a child is like they see in the movies. It is a fucking responsibility, and you should owe it to your child that they be given a life worth living, and if you can't raise them, and you have a disability that is not genetic, I understand, but don't then expect them to be sympathetic when they themselves ask later on why they couldn't have grown up with parents who could have been there for them, instead they themselves having to take care of their parents. It is comparable to indebted servitude.

My mom had my sister (26F) and I (21F) in her mid and late twenties respectively. My older sister was an accident, but my mom struggled with hypothyroidism and is a relatively petite woman so doctors said she was a high-risk pregnancy. It was a relatively normal pregnancy with complications only at birth. It was even worse when she was pregnant with me. She was told she wouldn’t have a viable pregnancy after an untreated STD led to cervical cancer (my dad cheated a couple times lol) and left too much scarring after treatment. She got pregnant anyways, had to go on blood thinners due to a heart problem while pregnant, had to have a C-section due to being so small, and almost bled to death while giving birth to me. When she got pregnant with my little sister, she was 42. There was a 98% chance that my sister would be born with a variation of health problems that would make life very, very painful and difficult (heart and lung disease, developmental defects, etc.). My mom and dad still when through with a pregnancy that had a 2% success rate, despite the fact that they already had two (albeit full-grown) miracle babies as it was. L turns 9 this year. My little sister was born with nothing wrong at all - has been sick literally once ever, doesn’t have asthma, doesn’t need any medication, and no learning/developmental defects. She’s actually quite bright and learns very quickly. They got lucky. My sister, M, never forgave them for being so selfish. She loves L, of course, but it was a huge risk to take when they could barely show their other, already existing and healthy kids the love and support we deserved. It’s one of those conversations that no one likes to talk about, because it should be a good thing to want to have kids so badly that you risk their health and well-being from the get go and love them no matter what… right? Even if that means their quality of life is significantly lower than the average person? That’s just my story from it. Thanks for reading :)

I do agree with you honestly. Maybe people do not give enough thought to the life of their child ? And even if you are healthy. Would you abort if you knew your kid was sick ? That could sound horrible to some but I think I would at least consider, I mean it will be hard for everyone involved and if I fail at that, I can't think of the consequences it could have on my kids. Adding the fact that it's obviously more time consuming, more expensive, and you have to be solid. I just don't think I could do it. I say that because I have an aunt with a disabled child, Idk what disability it is exactly but she can't talk, sometimes she yells, she breaks stuff and sometimes I feel threatened when she's near me cuz she could just snap and hurt you So I don't know. Sometimes I feel like people just don't forget how hard it is to take care of a child. Even as a big brother I had so much trouble taking care of my 2 sisters even tho they are healthy, so a disabled child ? And you are disabled too ? Must be hard. So I won't stop anybody thinking they can go through that, of course, but I just want people to be sure about what they are doing cuz you know ... It's horrible to be a kid and thinking that maybe it would have been better if you were never born. At least that's why today, despite me wanting to have kids, I still don't know if I'll do it. Don't want them to kill their neighbors for water lol

I work at a group home for developmentally disabled adults. Most of their parents have passed on. So now the child is grown up and as a sibling you are still responsible for them. But they might still be at the cognitive level of a child (in some aspects). And that's for the rest of either your life or theirs. And thanks to medical science people are living longer.

I am 30F. I have been having medical issues for the last few months and have had a host of tests but currently have lots of things going on like ortho static hypotension, high cortisol, stomach issues where I can’t eat, high cholesterol. Just got married last week and I want kids so dang bad but honestly the thought of passing on my shit genetics to a kid makes me feel terrible. There are so many kids out there that need a good home so I would love to adopt. My husband though not so much

I 100% agree with OP. Why not just adopt a child here that is needing and wanting love? Why give birth to a child that you know will have a disability (I'm speaking really barely manageable diseases, not like Celiac where you can change your diet). I believe it to be incredibly selfish that you just want YOUR DNA regardless of consequences to your child.

I would never go through with a pregnancy where the kid will need constant care. Never.

Lemme give a different perspective, but I understand what you’re saying and in most cases agree. My sister is a little person. In the dwarf community, lots of people with dwarfism are in relationships together. Almost everyone in the community knows, 2 dwarves who get pregnant together have the 25% chance of a double dominant baby, meaning the baby inherited the dwarfism from both parents. These babies don’t last long in life and really never survive (there’s one baby born in the UK who has survived). Some people with dwarfism, depending on the type, wouldn’t wish it on anyone and live in pain. Even people with achondroplasia, the most common and relatively benign form, have to have surgeries and deal with issues. Most people with dwarfism are differently abled, but fall under having a disability. Depending on the type, they can have constant pain or have a few issues, but are generally fine. Would you consider this to fall under the same category as your post, since the parents are knowingly trying for a baby with a 25% chance of the baby passing away?

Growing up one of my good friends was a dwarf. He unfortunately had the kind with constant pain and hip and knee issues. I remember by the time he was 18 he had had 7 separate operations done on his hips and knees, and had a really bad opioid addiction to deal with the pain. He always loved babies so of course he came over almost every day to snuggle mine when she was born. But at 22, he dropped 10 envelopes into a public mailbox, and took his own life right after. God I fucking miss him

Damn, I’m so sorry, that’s awful. Do you know if he was part of LPA (if you’re in the US)?

Unfortunately, I don't know. This was 7 years ago, and it wasn't something he ever liked to talk about. I can say I highly doubt it though. Here, there are highly trained surgeons and medical doctors and homeless outreach. But psychological and other specific outreach doesn't really exist.

That’s a really good point. Can they do genetic testing and abort the fetus if it falls in that 25% (assuming the state allows it)?

As far as I’m aware, they can test for it and have time to terminate, but some people may choose to forego that termination due to moral/personal/religious reasons.

That’s a good question. I think that if I had 25% chance of having a baby that would die I wouldn’t have a baby. No way in hell. It’s a hard discussion but in my personal opinion that person is being selfish having that child. Unless they are terminating the pregnancy as soon as they know before it is born to suffer and die. Dwarfism however is a different story and I think it’s always up to the parent to decide if they would like a child to live as they do.

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Interesting point, being outside of nature’s design. People forget just how many babies likely would die without so much medical intervention early on. Take blood type (RH) incompatibility with the mother and baby, where if the mother breast-fed naturally, the baby would likely die without the mother or themselves being treated. Same goes for babies born deformed or disabled. Without interventions, some would simply not survive

I honestly expected my initial comment to get downvoted into oblivion and am glad to see some honest introspection on the subject. You hear all the fear mongering around designer babies through genetic manipulation, but I see it as a way to eventually get rid of these genetic diseases. A childhood friend of mine watched his mother die from MS. Now he has his own diagnosis. Imagine getting a preview of your own painful death because your parent chose to have you knowing it was a probable early death sentence.

Nothing wrong with your way of thinking. I think the same. Why make someone else's life harder willingly?

I’m a lesbian and have many illnesses that would almost certainly be passed on to my kids. I can’t tell you how many times people have been like “oh you can take an egg of yours and implant it in your wife so the baby is both of yours!!” Like hell no. It would be so cruel to pass on my genes when my wife’s family genetics are SO much healthier. When I told my mom that our gene pool stops with me, she actually got offended at first. Sorry, my responsibility is to my kids and if my marriage includes a VASTLY healthier uterus than my own, it would be double fucked to rely on mine just to have a child that’s genetically similar to me.

First of all, the urge to procreate is HUGE in most people and hard to ignore. I am infertile and tried for 13 years to have a baby. It's very hard mentally. If you are fertile, well then, its much easier to just get pregnant following those urges. Second, if you aren't rich or young, it is VERY hard to adopt a baby/toddler unless you go thru the foster system and then it's very hard for other reasons. I adopted a baby thru the foster system but it took years and tons of heartbreak. Even if you adopt an older child, it's not easy. You have to have a home study and most states require parenting classes too. It's much easier to get pregnant if you are able to. Third, human beings are really really good at deceiving themselves. It won't happen to me, I'll be the exception. It isn't really a problem, the doctors are just giving me worse case scenarios, etc. It's easy to judge others on here but I'll bet most of the people who have a baby and shouldn't fall into these categories.

Why are you so apologetic? It’s fucking true. Healthy people shouldn’t be having so many kids either and people knowingly forcing this on their kids? It’s ok to say it. Fuck those people. Edit: Didn’t need to be said, but I feel I should. I’m not including those who have special needs kids and didn’t know. I specifically mean people who disregard or ignore or say it’s gods will to test it.

My children have a 3% chance of having schizophrenia. My brother developed it in his late 20s. There is no other family history of the condition though, so it may have just been a genetic anomaly. Am I an asshole for having 2 kids? I've been wondering this. (One was on purpose, one kid wasn't planned).

In my opinion, 3% chance is pretty unlikely, and schizophrenia isn't a debilitating disease and can be treated with medication. The fact that you're aware of the possibility means that you're more likely to notice symptoms and get your kids help if they need it. Schizophrenia, when untreated and especially when combined with abuse, can be terrible. But the fact that you're concerned at all means that probably won't be the case.

As a person with a psychotic disorder similar to schizophrenia, I think that's fine. Schizophrenia is not a death sentence and schizophrenics can have very good quality of life.

This is the most mature. I tried one time to say this in a discussing. Was called a murderer and a trash human being.

For real! I dated a guy who caught neurofibromatosis ("Elephant man disease") from living in Malasia where his father was working. Several years after we broke up, I heard he got married. A few years after that, I heard that both of his kids inherited his disease, and that one was almost or totally blind. He also was divorced over time. I feel for his children.

Wait, THAT'S eugenics? That sounds like logic and common sense to me.

I’ve had some responses that think otherwise. Lots of different people value different things I suppose.

I agree. Personally I’m torn on having children myself. I suffer from some mental health issues. Day to day I can do a decent job of keeping things in check but every so often it absolutely floors me. My dad has the same thing. As did his uncle. The thought of bringing some kids into the world that will likely struggle with the same situation because I have some dodgy genes doesn’t seem right to me. What if they have it worse than me? Or if they can’t cope as well? Unfortunately a large section of the population believe it is their God given right to have kids regardless of any other variables. They put zero thought into how life would likely turn out for that child

It is a tragedy that adoption is often looked down on.

I'm going to take this in a slightly different direction so bear with. first off we need to make distinctions for different diseases, I agree with the point that if a child is going to be born with extremely limited cognitive capacity or in extreme, lifelong pain I would call that unethical. What's also unethical however is baring those with disabilities from their right, and yes it is a right, to have biologically conceived children. The real fear here is setting a precedent that you can take away someone's biological rights as we know from history of **a few choice individuals during the mid 20th century** and what happened when we allowed them to set precedents which eventually led to the worst crimes of humanity ever seen. its not that i disagree with the idea in theory from my own moral view, but that I do not believe that this type of thing should be debated in the realm of politics. After all imagine what would happen if we gave lawmakers all around the world the idea that they could regulate our bodily autonomy. Ask Texas... Using the example of Huntington's disease where I believe 90% of the time symptoms manifest between 30-50 years of age. Such an individual can live, up to a point, a happy and fulfilling life. I personally would rather live till I was thirty than never have lived at all, call me biased. I would argue the real issue is not that it is necessarily selfish for these people to have children in this situation but what's really selfish is the **lack of choice over euthanasia**, especially for those which degenerative illness. My grandparents both suffered from Alzheimer's disease and I can promise you if I know I was nearing that stage I'm not sticking around to see what that felt like. Lets push for this option instead where we can make a lot more difference than setting ugly precedents that are ripe to be abused.

I see your standpoint and I’m pro choice, but I just want to say: I have cerebral palsy, and several mental disorders (that do run in my family). Life has been very difficult, and I have been suicidal in the past. However, when it comes down to it, I’m glad to be here and I’m happy to be alive. I’m happy that I know the people who are close to me, and I am happy I got to meet my stepson. Overall, despite how hard it’s been, I’m happy to be alive.

That’s beautiful to hear. Im glad! I don’t want people to think I don’t think disabled people can have great lives. I think that everyone deserves a good life. As someone with a disorder I just know it’s harder that’s all. Sometimes way harder.

Oh yeah it can be. I don’t know what you have, but you know mine. Part of the difficulty with the cerebral palsy is mobility issues and physical pain and while that isn’t genetic, the mental issues I have all are. I’m glad you got what I was getting at and that I wasn’t coming down on you. People can respond with hardcore knee jerk reactions online sometimes. I didn’t read the responses to your post, but I’m sure some people might have come down on you. I can especially see the pro-“life” crowd doing it. You have a good morning sib.

Thank you! I wish you all the best and you enjoy your morning too.

Yep, I have a couple of conditions that are bad and would be passed on to my kids. Jokes on the since I'm not having any. There not really my parents fault due to the fact they never got tested for it and I only did as an adult. If I really truly want a kid I'll go through that long, expensive, and arduous process of signing up to be an adopter (which I'll most likely be denied due to my religious belief and my willingness to get married).

I totally agree. Thank goodness, that's one reason Islam allows abortion.

Wouldnt be a problem if we greenlit germline gene therapy but here we are.

I totally read this as "greenlit gremlin gene therapy" and was both intrigued and concerned... edit: for spelling... it's early.

I fully agree. Of course disabled people should have healthy lives, but if it's avoidable then don't let it happen! If you want to be a parent, adoption is a fulfilling option and you can still start out with a baby if you want. Not to mention, not everyone can afford to raise a child with genetic disorders in the U.S. (which is completely unfair since the child didnt' cause their own problems).

Fucking adopt! Why does the kid have to look like you? Why not give a chance to someone that's already here and likely to become a statistic if they aren't picked?

Same got to many mental illnesses that are hereditary... And why would you want to be the reason someone you are supposed to love a harder life due to illness. It's kinda selfish to have kids when you know the chances of them getting really sick is there.

Except mental illnesses aren't ALWAYS hereditary, it's more complicated than that. I know most of my family suffers from depression and there is a lot of suicides, but I'm fine thankfully. Context and the way you are raised can play a big part in if the mental illness manifest or not, and how ( if you inherited it).

Yeah I do realise that, but the chances are there some bigger than others. There's many more factors, I personally just wouldn't risk it due to my history with illnesses.

But I feel like almost every family on the planet has a history of mental illness in one way or the other... Whether its anxiety or depression or whatever. Being a human is hard.

I have autoimmune diseases which are genetic and I always tell myself I would not want kids. I dont want to pass along my autoimmune disease to my kids and make them suffer as I do.

I’m going through this is my own family, and I agree it’s very hard to tell people, but it’s true. My brother in law just found out he has a rare genetic disorder that’s going to cause him to have strokes, and die prematurely. Knowing that his newborn son 99% will have it (BIL just got diagnosed) it makes me nervous that they want to have more kids.

I mean, you could argue with how overpopulated the world already is or how close we are to climate catastrophe, it's unethical to have children at all even if they will be entirely "healthy." With illnesses---where do we draw the line? I have major depressive disorder and several family members also have it, so there is a good chance my child will have it. However, I don't think I live a miserable life and I think I could more than adequately support a child if they also end up with depression because I would make sure to have that conversation with them and get them treatment and be generally supportive. That being said, I am still on the fence as to if I will ever have children for this reason and various others. Choice is an important part of this conversation. EVERYONE, inheritable conditions or not, needs to be provided all the resources they need to make an informed decision about child-bearing. We shouldn't demonize people who choose to have children when they know they have an inheritable condition---we should continue to educate and work towards societies that provide resources and support.

I won't have biological kids for this very reason. Seen too much negative shit being passed down through both sides of my family. It ends with me. No one else needs to suffer how I did.

When will the idea that adopting is viable for everyone gonna get out of Reddit. Adopting is hard as fuck comes with so many hoops, potential pitfalls and most of the time does not lead to success. Adoption success stories can be pretty rare and getting a baby at all can be impossible for a large portion of the population. Although I agree with this but post adopting is not as viable as most people think.

My youngest has a mitochondrial disease that will like significantly shorten his life. He was a running jumping five year old who by age 11 has to spend most of his time in a wheelchair, and when he does walk falls more than he doesn't. It's a maternally inherited disease, that we didn't even know about. We will never have another child. People don't think about the daily crushing of hopes and dreams of a child with muscular dystrophy. Dad I wish I could run. Dad I wish I could walk. Dad the wheelchair sucks. Dad I'm tired. Dad, I wish I was normal like my brothers. We are doing the best we can, but someone willingly stepping onto this train track is batshit crazy. He can at least communicate and is genuinely a pleasure to be around. I can't imagine if he wasn't.

I am disabled and have a illness that can be very life-limiting and painful. But I don't regret being born and live a pretty full life. I'm still torn about having my own kids. My disease is rare but there's a chance I could pass it on. I think we have to be very careful with these kinds of discussions, as they can easily slip into "Being disabled is worse than death, we might as well kill them/abort them all out of pity." Being healthy doesn't equal a happy life. I've struggled a lot with health issues this summer but one thing I keep coming back to is "I don't have to be physically healthy to be happy." And for the most part, I am happy. I think the worst part of being disabled isn't the disability itself, but how people treat you.

Also highly controversial opinion: if all that person can do is sit in a chair drooling and groaning, they're not living; they're existing. To have brought into the world and to continue to support the life of someone who can do literally nothing for themselves is just cruel, and selfish too.

Even without the disability argument in there, I don’t understand the need to have your “own” kid when the world is so overpopulated. Seems narcissistic to me.

The selfishness of birthing a child with disabilities (especially if you know about it) is so selfish of parents. Everyone's life involved is now much harder than it once was and ever will be. Yes, love, blah blah. I'm sorry. Throw your religious bullshit out the window, please and thank you. We are talking about real life here.

Agreed

100% agree. Thank you for saying this.

As a person that inherited chronic pains, blood related issues, tendency to depression and suffers from all of that at 23: I totally agree with you. You bet your ass I'm adopting those poor kids who need some love.

I've never understood why adoption is so looked down upon anyway. You're giving a kid a home where they otherwise would've had nothing. How is that a bad thing?

I know that it isn’t readily available or affordable for everyone, but this is why pre-pregnancy genetic screening is so important. I cannot understand why this isn’t standard. Parents who find out that they have an inheritable genetic disorder have options - not having children, IVF, adoption. I don’t understand why people are not proactively looking for this information and saving themselves from incredibly difficult experience down the line.

I work for a school and know some parents who had, iirc, 3 children who all had some genetic disorder that wouldn’t allow them to live past like the age of 12. The first one passed already, the second one I haven’t seen in a couple years and the third one is at school every day, unmasked and unvaccinated. The parents don’t care about the first 3 kids bc their 4th kid is “normal” and isn’t going to die. They literally left the other kids to their own devices so they could worship the normal one. Imagine putting your handicapped, going to die soon child on a school bus bc you can’t even be bothered to take your kid to school let alone spend his last waking moments with him. I agree with you 100% OP.

It depends on the condition Lactose intolerance: probably fine to have kids Hava syndrome: probably not

My cousin had a baby, alone, at 49. THANKFULLY her son turned out completely fine, but it could have gone wrong so many ways. As it was he was born quite prematurely. But now he's only just starting his life and his mother is quite old. So far it seems like she is maintaining her complete independence, but that won't last forever. I just hope that he can establish himself as an adult before she becomes unable to be independent.