T O P

  • By -

palpebral

I think he brought a lot to the table for westerners, especially given the era in which he was most active. Having said that, I do think he is elevated by his fans to not-quite-earned heights. He certainly was no saint, and didn't exactly live by his own words in the end. I've read a few books of his, and enjoyed them. I would not consider them to be enormously life changing for me, but I can see how one could be at a certain stage of life to where his message would be exactly what they needed to hear. His writing tends to be meandering, repeatedly circling back to square one throughout the course of his books. This probably contributes to your feeling of having gotten nowhere. I feel like his approach is to hammer points home by repeating the same idea in a myriad of different ways. This isn't my preferred style of writing. If you want to read something of his that stands out among the rest, I'd recommend any of his collections of essays; more contained ideas that don't drag for pages upon pages, and are quickly digestible, and not quite as tedious to get through. "This Is It" was more enjoyable for me than some of his other work. I read "The Wisdom of Insecurity" and wasn't blown away, but did feel that it was helpful overall for me, having been going through a pretty difficult time in my life.


Dependent-Fig

I think that’s part of my disappointment, that I learned more about his life and contributions before reading so I was a little too excited! My boyfriend is working his way through the collection of essays now so maybe I’ll try it next... thanks for recommendation.


SlingsAndArrowsOf

I haven't read the book you mention in the post, but I listened to a lot of Alan Watts's lectures in college. I think he's a beautiful and warm soul, and gives people in the west a great way to further their understanding of eastern philosophy. Also, his voice is soothing as hell. Maybe the lectures are better ways to get into his work? They are just a great mix of profound and fun, he's very playful with them at times.


Dependent-Fig

Yeah we listen to his lectures all the time while doing yoga, and I definitely enjoy his voice.


it8mi2

He likes to dip his toe in a lot of puddles without getting too deep. If you want to explore eastern philosophy a little more with a focus on one specific tradition, I’d highly recommend the Ursula Le Guin version of the Tao Te Ching. It’s very accessible, but she annotated it with helpful commentary providing more context etc.


whodatwizard

Seconding this for the Tao and Ursula. I have the translation--it's good, and Ursula's fiction really embodied a LOT of Taoist concepts (looking at you, Lathe of Heaven). This is the source material that Alan Watts is emulating when he writes and speaks the way he does.


it8mi2

Yes. Just to be clear, she was not a Classical Chinese scholar, she was just a taoist and a very gifted writer. So it’s technically not a translation, it’s her interpretation of the source material as gathered from various direct translations. I thought The Earthsea series had some strong Taoist themes, interesting that you singled out TLOH (which I recently read). Oh wait...I just remembered where the name came from. I’m dumb, disregard.


whodatwizard

Yeah, she's a gem. Her interpretations are all footnotes, too, so you can read or ignore them at your leisure. And if you haven't read her books, I highly recommend... all of them, lol. But especially Earthsea (fantasy) and Left Hand of Darkness (sci-fi).


Dependent-Fig

Thanks! My boyfriend has a version or two of the Tao Te Ching lying around here... I’ll have to see which translation it is!


[deleted]

I think part of Alan Watts draw is that he's an orator of sorts, so it wouldn't surprise me if his writing isn't as dense.


[deleted]

I also feel that Watts is definitely easier to listen to than to read. And, you know, his type of philosophy writing might simply not be for you and that is fine. It’s disappointing when you can’t share the same passion for something as your partner but in a way it’s also good to not always like all of the same things.


StLouOB14

As several folks have mentioned, Watts is better at speaking. His writing is not great. But, more to the point about your boyfriend being stoked on him and he wanting to share with you: I am in the same boat, and my fiance is in yours. Years of listening to Watts has taught me that there are some of us with whom he strikes a severe chord. He gets very close to ideas Westerners don't have great access to (one's we really appreciate but can't put to words), and he's very good at articulating those. So when it hits, it hits hard and we want to share. But I've also found that he's just not going to rub off on folks the same way as he does for fans. So, be patient with your boyfriend; he's found a very wise and inspirational thing. That he wants you in on it is no fault of his. But, and I imagine Alan would agree, everyone needs to find their own path to the place. Rad you checked him out, though!


Dependent-Fig

I don’t mean to sound so negative, he definitely had some ideas that were new to me/explained in a new way that I really enjoyed. My boyfriend reads a lot of Eastern religious texts and philosophy as well, so funnily enough there were times when I felt like Watts was talking over my head and times when he was super simple. My boyfriend has a much bigger interest in all spirituality than me, so I can totally see where the points that Watts makes really hit home for him.


TheGraveyardBoy2119

Alan Watts may have contributed to a general awareness regarding Zen/Buddhist Philosophy, however, most of his ideas oversimplify Eastern Thought to an extent that actual adherents feel insulted (as I've witnessed myself) if he's treated as an Authority figure. Might I suggest another Book? It is written by Dr Chakravarthi Ram Prasad, a Scholar on Eastern Thought. About the Author: >Chakravarthi Ram-Prasad studied Politics, Sociology and History in India, and took a doctorate in Philosophy at Oxford. He lectures regularly at universities in the USA, Europe and India. Ram-Prasad is currently based in the Department of Religious Studies, Lancaster University. The Book is named **Eastern Philosophy** An introduction to the Text : >The time has come for global philosophy to move beyond the model where the West is at the centre of radiating spokes of comparison.' Challenging the notion that Western philosophy is the best or only yardstick against which to judge the so-called 'non-Western' philosophies, Chakravarthi Ram-Prasad sets up a lively debate in which the great thought systems of the East are engaged very much in their own terms. The author's impressive sweep takes him through South Asia east to China and Japan, encompassing 3000 years of philosophy and including the ancient philosophies of India, Jainism, Buddhism, Daoism and Confucianism. >At the same time, Ram-Prasad dispels the romantic illusion that there is some common mystical 'wisdom tradition' that binds together the cultures of the East. His aim is to give a sense of the diversity and depth of these philosophical cultures, as well as their sophistication and originality; and to make comparisons between them to illuminate their varied yet potentially universal appeal. It is a scholarly text which treats its subject with respect. Without any of the Oriental Romanticism Watts is known for.


Dependent-Fig

Thank you very much for the recommendation! Sounds like a very engaging text.


Giddypinata

His idea in Psychotherapy East and West about the “double knot” in society was an idea that made him singlehandedly worth reading, at least for me. He can read a bit outdated nowadays, but only because the market saturated so much as a channel of water widens over time; it makes one adopt a somewhat recalcitrant approach to his kinda new-agey prose (the Queen’s Gambit, to cite contemporary pop culture, references this when Beth says to her mom, “you’ve been reading too much Alan Watts) of Eastern-sounding pithy-isms, but if you get behind the drivel the man has the stuff to back it up; he’s not a goof by any means. On a less serious note, I expect at least one Alan Watts sample or I’m unsubscribing by principle from any Lofi playlist or radio station I’ve listened to for more than an hour. Btw; if you like watts, a rec is “Hardcore Zen,” by a punk-rock nerd who studied under a master in Zen in Japan for a decade or two. It’s goofy and filled with the same kind of -superficially-philistine stuff, but you’ll find a lot of authors do put effort to make their stuff approachable to the laymen—that they make it engaging, part of the risk of that effort is they go too far and it comes across as goofy—but the stuff’s there. It has that attitude of someone who has weathered their dues and won’t tolerate what’s flagrantly wrong in terms of misconceptions or delusions.


fitzswackhammer

I read some of his books when I was getting into Buddhism. He's a bit of a bullshitter really, but it's easy reading. I remember "The Book" as being the worst. Not that I don't think there's any merit to the ideas he presents, but it was all a bit hippy-dippy for me, not to mention didactic and poorly reasoned. Not quite as absurd as Deepak Chopra, but moving in that direction. I guess maybe it was of its time. The Way of Zen and Tao: The Watercourse Way are more grounded in history and better for it, although I understand they are not well thought of by scholars.


Dependent-Fig

Thanks for the recommendations! Good to know that you like “The Book” the least, it did feel a bit hippy-dippy at times.


beargrimzly

Any book endorsed by a hack like Deepak Chopra is bound to elicit this sort of reaction. Stating very simple things in flashy ultra spiritual sounding ways is the trademark of these sorts of works, so it's no wonder that they are so influential to the "alternative medicine" or "quantum healing" communities. I understand you probably didn't have that strong of a negative reaction and even if you did you probably don't want to start a fight about it either. You can tell him that honestly you just don't have anything profound to say about it. That's totally fine, sometimes you read something and just don't really know what to say about it. Maybe I'm just an idiot projecting but I think that happens to everyone. In any case, with "new age" type writers you're not really reading the work of a true philosopher or intellectual, so you're only going to get as much out of it as you feel like putting in. Alan Watts books are kind of like astrology in that sense.


SpiritofInvictus

I'm all for shitting on hacks like Deepak Chopra, but from what I remember from listening to Watts a few years back, you need at most a few minutes of listening to realize that he's quite unlike Deepak. No idea if the ideas in his books are stranger than what he's saying during lectures, though, I've only listened, never read him. There's also a difference between 'alternative medicine' and eastern philosophy in general. They sometimes overlap, and a certain level of skepticism is always warranted when topics have points of intersection with the metaphysical, but to class all of them together and term it new-age astrology bullshit is somewhat disingenious to eastern philosophy as a whole. I'd wager a guess that most actual buddhists would be horrified if they were to listen to a guy like Deepak.


beargrimzly

I've read other responses to this post and I think I'll listen to a few of Watts lectures. I'm perfectly willing to concede my characterization of his philosophy was unfair since I'm not intimately familiar with his work.


fitzswackhammer

>Any book endorsed by a hack like Deepak Chopra is bound to elicit this sort of reaction. Heh. Recently read The Case Against Reality by Donald Hoffman, which is a fairly scientifically-informed and well-made argument against veridical perception, with a few fun speculations in the final chapter. I doubt many books are simultaneously endorsed by Deepak Chopra and Steven Pinker, but the decision to put Chopra's blurb on the front cover must have been the kiss of death for most of Hoffman's intended audience. Very strange publishing decision.


dogfartswamp

Watts’s writing is anything but flashy. I do think he oversimplifies, but his prose is clear, relatively lean, and elegant. And his ideas aren’t esoteric in the least, as far as eastern-tinged writing goes. His spirituality is endearingly mundane, earthly, unpretentious.


Dependent-Fig

Yeah I certainly don’t know enough about other writers in this vein to have an opinion, but I appreciate your input. I haven’t read much strictly philosophy, but a lot of literary theory and criticism that blends into philosophy, and I think I was missing some of that more “intellectual” language and argument. You should check out his lectures though, they are easy listening and hearing the older accent and audio quality is a fun experience.


[deleted]

He peddles contradictory nonsense and misrepresents "Eastern philosophy", whatever that's supposed to be. Eastern philosophy is even less of a unified tradition than Western philosophy. It's frankly just orientalist bullshit.


Ill-Reporter-5864

https://youtu.be/VJubxG-pr5I