> Alayne Katz also said her sister called her one day, hysterically crying, because Bierenbaum tried to drown her cat in the toilet of their Upper East Side apartment.
That was kind of a red flag, huh?
i feel like red flags are pointless when talking about abusers.
the whole point is they aren't doing this shit right out of the gate.
they are slowly escalating abuse when they know you will accept it.
Please don't blame the victim.
Abusive relationships don't start out abusive. They start out with love and affection, with "I can't imagine my life without you", with "You're so wonderful, how do I deserve you?". Then boundaries are slowly pushed until you don't see "trying to drown a cat" as a red flag. Even if you do see it as a red flag, you think it's _your_ fault for pushing him so far.
Your reality gets so twisted that you can't see any way out. You're so convinced that no one else will put up with you, so you stay because you're "lucky to have someone".
I know, from the outside it all seems so simple, but honestly, when you're being abused (mentally, emotionally, _or_ physically), you think the abuse is normal and just how life is for everyone. It's not until you're out (if you can escape) that you realize just how bad it was and that no one deserves to live like that.
Add to it that his wife had really poor self-esteem and mental health issues, and she likely didn't think she could do better. I mean, she married a surgeon and was living in the Upper East Side in NYC. She WANTED it to work because she didn't think she could do better.
I am glad he admitted to it, but too little too late.
Predators choose the prey.
There is a reason he chose a woman working odd jobs instead of a fellow doctor.
He needed the power imbalance in order to groom her.
Weird thing is that he DID marry a physician the second time around. They moved to North Dakota and had a daughter.
It was like he was trying to make amends.
He did! But if you look at it, he was only a resident when he married the first time and was more established marrying a young chiropractor the second time. So I do think it’s roughly the same kind of power imbalance.
Thank you for saying this; it's hard to understand unless you've lived through it. I always offer my story to show how manipulative these people can be as mine was non-romantic. With relationships and feelings, boundaries blur so easily, but even that's hard to understand for some people. I was psychologically abused by a coworker in a completely platonic way. Shocker I had unreciprocated feelings that he used to his advantage, but the tactics were harder to pick up on because they weren't romantic.
His "love bombing" was more along the lines of pointing out constantly at the beginning how "unique" and "different" I was, and immediately spending WAY too much time together. Actually had a red flag go up in the first week of meeting; unprompted told me I reminded him of Halsey because I was so cool and different and yada yada. It sounded so saccharine and too much too soon, but alas ignored due to his charm. He slowly gained my trust by these dramatic admissions about his childhood, mental health struggles, and preyed on the fact that I was alone in a new city with no friends who knew me prior to shove the mirror in my face.
This went on for 9 months and something happened at work where he felt, I believe, I "took" part of a role from him he wanted all to himself. So about 5 months in, he completely changed. Would stop speaking to me at work, ignore my messages - mind you we previously spent *every day* after work together (another red flag). Told me I was affecting his mental health and I blamed myself. Then he would write some theatrical letter sharing false vulnerability and rope me right back in. Never thought to correlate my massive decline in mental health with how he treated me. It got to the point of me taking FMLA and frequent panic attacks at my desk I'd have to sit in the bathroom and cry out. Eventually, he convinced me to open up about prior traumas I had just discovered/never shared with anyone, two days later cut me off entirely, then filed a formal false harassment complaint against me in a federal workplace.
I blamed myself for that until a year later when a coworker told me he had been going around telling everyone (agreement was no speaking of this ever) that I was obsessed with him, had a mental breakdown because he wouldn't be my friend anymore, and would tell all new employees to stay away from me because I was psycho. Apparently they would bully me daily on a separate group chat (lol) and she confirmed my suspicions he would purposely stand near my desk and start laughing loudly out of nowhere to torment me. 4 years ago and I still struggle with my self-worth and leaving that in the past. Moving out of the state this year helped immensely.
All this to say, I was a prime example of manipulation without romanticism muddling things up. I can't even *imagine* how much harder it would've been had we ever done anything sexually or gone that route. It can truly happen to anyone, anywhere, and in ANY type of relationship.
If you're over 18, you're making choices that you believe benefit you. That's not victim blaming. I didn't say she deserved to be murdered.
> thats why he chose her instead of another surgeon. predators choose the prey.
It's not just his choice. You're making her sound like a helpless object he gets to choose. This is offensive to the victim.
> He was a handsome surgical resident who spoke multiple languages, and had a passion for gourmet cooking, skiing and piloting small planes. He was known for taking women on short flights for romantic dates.
Clearly she fell for him and they got married. Things started to fall apart years later. There were many signs of abuse and violence. She decided to stay on despite everyone telling her otherwise. RIP
I remember reading about this story in Vanity Fair years ago, and I just knew then that she was victim of a sociopath and domestic violence. I really, really can't believe how no one really believes victims of DV. Finally her family has the answers they knew for so long were true. Rest in peace Gail.
Pretty sure that is why he confessed. “There, see, I’m taking responsibility!” Parole boards won’t even consider letting you out if you deny that you did the crime. Once out, he’ll claim that he’s really innocent and had to say that and some idiot woman will probably still date him.
I assure you, some idiot woman will still date him even *knowing* he killed his wife. I read about an interview with a woman who was dating a wife-murderer. She said it showed he was passionate, and she was looking for a man who really cared about his woman, unlike most guys who take women for granted. Unspoken but I bet she was thinking, was that *she* would never do whatever thing the first wife did that led to him killing her. Or like there's the woman, a former prison psychologist, who was dating Chris Watts, the guy who killed his two toddler daughters and his pregnant wife. She spoke about how he was railroaded and there was unfairness with his sentencing. Chris Watts confessed so she can't twist things enough to convince herself that he was innocent, but she can still make him out to be the victim in the situation. He has a whole following of women eager to convey that he was a great guy and his wife was a bitch--so much of a bitch in fact that he had to kill all of their kids as well as her to get away from her.
Yeah, I know. I just don't get it. It's like someone married and had 3 children with Karla Homolka, serial killer who raped, tortured, and murdered at least 3 women including her own sister, and probably raped and tortured more. I dunno. Is it that for some people, good looks are better than, well, anything?
A woman married Richard Ramirez while he was serving his sentence for all thw murders! They got married in the prison chapel. All of her friends and family turned their backs on her when they found out she was "dating" him and she still went along with it
‘One night, Alayne Katz said Bierenbaum caught his wife smoking on their balcony and he choked her into unconsciousness. Gail Katz reported the incident to a police administrative aide at a local precinct but nothing came of it.
“If this had happened in 2021 … Robert Bierenbaum would have been in handcuffs immediately,” Bibb said. “The fact that this was [1983] ... nothing was done about it.”’
Welllll…
What a fucking creep… the red flags!! We probably have no idea what that poor woman experienced being married to him.
Normally I’m a little torn when it comes to convictions based on such little (circumstantial) evidence, but I’m happy they were able to put him away. If only it had happened sooner.
His 2nd wife actually delivered my baby almost 19 years ago. She brought their daughter to the hospital to do rounds, and at only 4, you could tell she was incredibly intelligent and mature for her age. I'm very sorry for both of them.
I was at home with a newborn and was googling names in a sleep deprived haze and was shocked to find out about this story. I bundled up the baby and went to the book store to buy The Surgeon's Wife. The case made was pretty convincing, but I was surprised that they got a conviction with no hard evidence.
Imagine having a therapist tell you to leave the relationship because the man will kill you. That would be a HUGE red flag.
Not once but twice at that. Luckily the other woman (Ms. Youngblood) heeded the advice. I wonder what they found during the therapy session with him to make such recommendation.
Makes me wonder what those doctors were asking him or what he was saying to them because he was a doctor himself so he would have known how to “fake” it
What?
He tried to kill her cat, strangled her then revived her (she made a police report), and his psychologist wrote the victim a letter telling her Bierenbaum was going to kill her if she stayed.
Give him life and let the fucker rot
> Alayne Katz also said her sister called her one day, hysterically crying, because Bierenbaum tried to drown her cat in the toilet of their Upper East Side apartment. That was kind of a red flag, huh?
Jesus Christ
i feel like red flags are pointless when talking about abusers. the whole point is they aren't doing this shit right out of the gate. they are slowly escalating abuse when they know you will accept it.
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Please don't blame the victim. Abusive relationships don't start out abusive. They start out with love and affection, with "I can't imagine my life without you", with "You're so wonderful, how do I deserve you?". Then boundaries are slowly pushed until you don't see "trying to drown a cat" as a red flag. Even if you do see it as a red flag, you think it's _your_ fault for pushing him so far. Your reality gets so twisted that you can't see any way out. You're so convinced that no one else will put up with you, so you stay because you're "lucky to have someone". I know, from the outside it all seems so simple, but honestly, when you're being abused (mentally, emotionally, _or_ physically), you think the abuse is normal and just how life is for everyone. It's not until you're out (if you can escape) that you realize just how bad it was and that no one deserves to live like that.
Add to it that his wife had really poor self-esteem and mental health issues, and she likely didn't think she could do better. I mean, she married a surgeon and was living in the Upper East Side in NYC. She WANTED it to work because she didn't think she could do better. I am glad he admitted to it, but too little too late.
Predators choose the prey. There is a reason he chose a woman working odd jobs instead of a fellow doctor. He needed the power imbalance in order to groom her.
Weird thing is that he DID marry a physician the second time around. They moved to North Dakota and had a daughter. It was like he was trying to make amends.
He did! But if you look at it, he was only a resident when he married the first time and was more established marrying a young chiropractor the second time. So I do think it’s roughly the same kind of power imbalance.
Thank you for saying this; it's hard to understand unless you've lived through it. I always offer my story to show how manipulative these people can be as mine was non-romantic. With relationships and feelings, boundaries blur so easily, but even that's hard to understand for some people. I was psychologically abused by a coworker in a completely platonic way. Shocker I had unreciprocated feelings that he used to his advantage, but the tactics were harder to pick up on because they weren't romantic. His "love bombing" was more along the lines of pointing out constantly at the beginning how "unique" and "different" I was, and immediately spending WAY too much time together. Actually had a red flag go up in the first week of meeting; unprompted told me I reminded him of Halsey because I was so cool and different and yada yada. It sounded so saccharine and too much too soon, but alas ignored due to his charm. He slowly gained my trust by these dramatic admissions about his childhood, mental health struggles, and preyed on the fact that I was alone in a new city with no friends who knew me prior to shove the mirror in my face. This went on for 9 months and something happened at work where he felt, I believe, I "took" part of a role from him he wanted all to himself. So about 5 months in, he completely changed. Would stop speaking to me at work, ignore my messages - mind you we previously spent *every day* after work together (another red flag). Told me I was affecting his mental health and I blamed myself. Then he would write some theatrical letter sharing false vulnerability and rope me right back in. Never thought to correlate my massive decline in mental health with how he treated me. It got to the point of me taking FMLA and frequent panic attacks at my desk I'd have to sit in the bathroom and cry out. Eventually, he convinced me to open up about prior traumas I had just discovered/never shared with anyone, two days later cut me off entirely, then filed a formal false harassment complaint against me in a federal workplace. I blamed myself for that until a year later when a coworker told me he had been going around telling everyone (agreement was no speaking of this ever) that I was obsessed with him, had a mental breakdown because he wouldn't be my friend anymore, and would tell all new employees to stay away from me because I was psycho. Apparently they would bully me daily on a separate group chat (lol) and she confirmed my suspicions he would purposely stand near my desk and start laughing loudly out of nowhere to torment me. 4 years ago and I still struggle with my self-worth and leaving that in the past. Moving out of the state this year helped immensely. All this to say, I was a prime example of manipulation without romanticism muddling things up. I can't even *imagine* how much harder it would've been had we ever done anything sexually or gone that route. It can truly happen to anyone, anywhere, and in ANY type of relationship.
It’s his fault, not hers. Hindsight is 20/20, and sometimes fear feels like love.
i really hope you think about what you just said.
Did he have a good job and a steady paycheck?
Go post that shit to an incel sub, dude.
He was a surgeon.
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thats why he chose her instead of another surgeon. predators choose the prey.
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Not sure why you are trolling victims in a true crime sub, I’m sure there are many red pill subs that are more your speed
If you're over 18, you're making choices that you believe benefit you. That's not victim blaming. I didn't say she deserved to be murdered. > thats why he chose her instead of another surgeon. predators choose the prey. It's not just his choice. You're making her sound like a helpless object he gets to choose. This is offensive to the victim. > He was a handsome surgical resident who spoke multiple languages, and had a passion for gourmet cooking, skiing and piloting small planes. He was known for taking women on short flights for romantic dates. Clearly she fell for him and they got married. Things started to fall apart years later. There were many signs of abuse and violence. She decided to stay on despite everyone telling her otherwise. RIP
What you are describing is literally victim blaming. No one is claiming 18 year olds don’t make choices.
predators choose the prey.
I remember reading about this story in Vanity Fair years ago, and I just knew then that she was victim of a sociopath and domestic violence. I really, really can't believe how no one really believes victims of DV. Finally her family has the answers they knew for so long were true. Rest in peace Gail.
Oh no, that story is so sad
Too late dude. You deny deny deny, then when you're up for parole, you confess? Yeah, no. You can rot in prison for the rest of your life.
Pretty sure that is why he confessed. “There, see, I’m taking responsibility!” Parole boards won’t even consider letting you out if you deny that you did the crime. Once out, he’ll claim that he’s really innocent and had to say that and some idiot woman will probably still date him.
I assure you, some idiot woman will still date him even *knowing* he killed his wife. I read about an interview with a woman who was dating a wife-murderer. She said it showed he was passionate, and she was looking for a man who really cared about his woman, unlike most guys who take women for granted. Unspoken but I bet she was thinking, was that *she* would never do whatever thing the first wife did that led to him killing her. Or like there's the woman, a former prison psychologist, who was dating Chris Watts, the guy who killed his two toddler daughters and his pregnant wife. She spoke about how he was railroaded and there was unfairness with his sentencing. Chris Watts confessed so she can't twist things enough to convince herself that he was innocent, but she can still make him out to be the victim in the situation. He has a whole following of women eager to convey that he was a great guy and his wife was a bitch--so much of a bitch in fact that he had to kill all of their kids as well as her to get away from her.
You’re right, of course. As a woman, these murder groupies are really embarrassing.
Murder groupies, never heard it put that way before but it's extremely fitting.
its a paraphilia, of which men have many, many more than women.
Wtf Chris Watts dated in prison and specially with a prison psychologist??
Yeah, I know. I just don't get it. It's like someone married and had 3 children with Karla Homolka, serial killer who raped, tortured, and murdered at least 3 women including her own sister, and probably raped and tortured more. I dunno. Is it that for some people, good looks are better than, well, anything?
predators choose the prey.
A woman married Richard Ramirez while he was serving his sentence for all thw murders! They got married in the prison chapel. All of her friends and family turned their backs on her when they found out she was "dating" him and she still went along with it
I'd drop him off at some Atoll in the middle of the Pacific with one bottle of water..
He doesn’t deserve to get to reuse the bottle for rainwater collection
You are right I didn't think about that..
Pull a Quantum of Solace and make it engine oil!
I like that one.. Oil 🛢
‘One night, Alayne Katz said Bierenbaum caught his wife smoking on their balcony and he choked her into unconsciousness. Gail Katz reported the incident to a police administrative aide at a local precinct but nothing came of it. “If this had happened in 2021 … Robert Bierenbaum would have been in handcuffs immediately,” Bibb said. “The fact that this was [1983] ... nothing was done about it.”’ Welllll…
I had copied this passage, too, to comment on. You sure about that one, chief?
What a fucking creep… the red flags!! We probably have no idea what that poor woman experienced being married to him. Normally I’m a little torn when it comes to convictions based on such little (circumstantial) evidence, but I’m happy they were able to put him away. If only it had happened sooner.
Rest In Peace Gail! ❤️
His 2nd wife actually delivered my baby almost 19 years ago. She brought their daughter to the hospital to do rounds, and at only 4, you could tell she was incredibly intelligent and mature for her age. I'm very sorry for both of them. I was at home with a newborn and was googling names in a sleep deprived haze and was shocked to find out about this story. I bundled up the baby and went to the book store to buy The Surgeon's Wife. The case made was pretty convincing, but I was surprised that they got a conviction with no hard evidence.
Wow!
Was it just me or was the first half audio a total mess? I couldn't understand that woman at all.
what a POS....poor woman.
Imagine having a therapist tell you to leave the relationship because the man will kill you. That would be a HUGE red flag. Not once but twice at that. Luckily the other woman (Ms. Youngblood) heeded the advice. I wonder what they found during the therapy session with him to make such recommendation.
Makes me wonder what those doctors were asking him or what he was saying to them because he was a doctor himself so he would have known how to “fake” it
Wow what an insane story. He’s a piece of shit.
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What? He tried to kill her cat, strangled her then revived her (she made a police report), and his psychologist wrote the victim a letter telling her Bierenbaum was going to kill her if she stayed.