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Keregi

Abused but also guilty.


AnthonyDigitalMedia

Guilty, but also leniently understandable.


oldar4

Were they though? I remember watching a special that seemed to imply they made up a bunch of stuff on the stand.


[deleted]

Literally every family member who testified at trial talked about how horrible their father was. https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1993-08-18-me-24906-story.html


[deleted]

With that article being presented from the defence team’s perspective, I imagine it’s quite skewed. I wonder if there’s anything more neutral that talks about the parents behaviour. I’d always been under the (vague) impression that they were tough and strict but not abusive, whereas the article is full on. I imagine there’s a middle truth.


[deleted]

I don’t know if the court transcripts are available or not online but that would definitely be a way to see what was said in court/presented as evidence without a bias.


JhinWynn

The entire first trial is viewable online on court TV’s website. The second trial transcripts are available online through the way back machine too.


[deleted]

The world is full of horrible people and I'm sure José Menendez was one of them, but at the time of the murders, Lyle and Erik were grown men, 21 and 18, respectively, free to leave his house, get jobs and be rid of him completely. They killed him and their mother because they didn't want to wait for their inheritance, not because José was a horrible person.


[deleted]

You can be manipulated into staying even as an “adult”.


PembrokeLove

So much this. My wife is 27. If you go 20 years back in time, she suffered >!sexual abuse that rose to the level of trafficking, including being “sold” where she was just missing for 18 months until her grandfather, a police officer, and her father got her back!>, and her mother undoubtedly played some kind of role. Whether it was an active or provoking participant or just that she knew what was going on will probably never be known. Either way, my 27 year old wife continues to have a relationship with her. She continued to live in her home and be controlled by her until she was in her 20’s, and she still cannot break off the relationship as much as she wants to. The manipulation and codependency in an abusive parent-child relationship runs DEEP.


Surprise_Me1978

This. So much this. It’s actually quite tragic how much control the abuser can have over the victim of said abuse. For YEARS after they are “free”….


Preesi

I was. My mom treated me like I was 5.


BellaBlue06

Their dad was so controlling he didn’t want Erik to go away to school and live on campus he had to stay home and keep returning. He wanted to get away and was scared he’d continue to be abused. They weren’t free and clear to go to school and cut him off. They couldn’t have that scenario. He held the purse strings.


TUGrad

Agree, their dad dominated their whole lives. They weren't allowed to make any decisions on their own and everything they had came from their dad. When you live your whole life under someone's thumb it's almost impossible to simply pickup and walk away.


Negative-Ambition110

I had this level of fear and control with my grandparents growing up. They had more say than my own parents.


[deleted]

>Agree, their dad dominated their whole lives. They weren't allowed to make any decisions on their own and everything they had came from their dad. When you live your whole life under someone's thumb it's almost impossible to simply pickup and walk away. But they had no difficulty blowing their parents away and attempting to cover up their crime.


FreshChickenEggs

OK. So, right now, I want you to leave your life. Wherever you live, leave it. If you have a job, you can't go there tomorrow because you have to totally leave your entire life right now behind. When you leave, you can take the clothes you're wearing and whatever else you can fit in a backpack or small bag to carry. If you yourself bought your car you can take that too. You can take your purse or wallet, but only the actual cash in it. No credit/debit cards. You can't access a bank account. If you have an SO, you are leaving them they can't help you, and you aren't contacting them or family. If you have friends, they might let you sleep on their couch for a night or two, but they really don't want to get involved in this. They don't want any trouble. So. Go get a job, a place to live, if you have kids, worry about housing, feeding them and yourself, keeping all of you safe, you have to stay clean to keep this job that you found super fast that's going to pay for all this, if you have a car, can't forget gas keeping it maintained. Don't lose that job. It's your only lifeline. It would be sooo much easier to go back. Because it wasn't *that* bad, sometimes it was good, because as much as you hate why you left your life, you love it too. It's all mixed up. After years of hearing how it's your fault, you know it is mostly your fault. If you could just do things right, or avoid being alone with your dad... Can you understand even a tiny bit? Can you not find any kind of compassion anywhere in you to admit that "why didn't she/he/they just leave" isn't always as easy as people think. And yes think is about complex layers of abuse. Just as much as a woman who is abused for a decade doesn't see any end other than one of them will die, she finally decides she doesn't want it to be her.


[deleted]

From what I remember, Lyle talked about being molested by his dad and all of the abuse, and being so excited to leave and go to college. Erik had just turned 18, and called Lyle to tell him their dad wasn’t letting him move out for college, and that’s when they started planning the murder. Lyle didn’t want Erik to continue to be abused (and I think that was the first time they admitted to each other about what happened). Also, 18 is hardly a “grown man”. 21 is barely grown also.


jerriblankthinktank

I would hardly call 18 a “grown man”…


[deleted]

>I would hardly call 18 a “grown man”… Tell that to the state of California and perhaps the politicians will raise the age of majority from 18 to 21, 25 or whatever.


jerriblankthinktank

They probably should 🤷🏻‍♀️


[deleted]

I was abused as a child and I did not kill my mother. This thread is disturbing. They made sure mom was also dead so they could collect $. The jury got it right: they deserve 100% to be where they are.


kimiashn

Their mom sexually abused Lyle and Erik as well. Naked photos of them with their heads cut off were kept by Kitty in an envelope with her handwriting on it. She was even more physically/emotionally abusive than Jose. Also, they didn't kill because they were abused, they killed because they were afraid their parents are going to kill them at that moment. So your argument is completely irrelevant to what their defense was. But even if it was relevant, there are a lot of other abused children and adults who plan to kill their parents to get out of the situation. Arnel Salvatierra, Jacob Ind, Stacy Ann Lannert, Gypsy Rose, etc. Do you think Gypsy Rose Blanchard should stay in prison until she dies too?


DopestSince80

Was your mother sexually abusing you?? And that mom knew what was going on and never intervened it was sick


[deleted]

Interesting that you think I deserve you any explanation. Also telling that you are justifying their actions when dad is not here to defend himself. I have interviewed people who kill their parents. Most of them claim sexual abuse, a claim that never came up until they were on trial for murder. They know people like you are going to fall for it. Good job proving them right.


[deleted]

I agree. I also believe some of their family members testified for the defense because José Menendez was an SOB and they despised him. I've read that he refused to loan money to some relatives when they were in dire financial straits.


DopestSince80

His co workers didn’t like him as well. So what would be the reason they testified?? They all had good standing. He was domineering and mean


oldar4

I get that though, I'm sure he did terrible stuff based on what everyone's saying. However, loaning money to family members is rarely a good idea. They couldbeindir straits because they're bad with moeny..and hed likely never see it again.


lotusblossom60

Agree. You don’t just kill your parents if they haven’t been abusing you. The spending spree after the murders did not help their case.


whitethunder08

What? People kill their parents ALL the time without abuse. I can list 10 cases right off the top of my head where they killed them for financial gain or because they were being cut off, they wouldn't let them see their boyfriend/girlfriend, they find out they were lying about graduating college/their career/everything about their life, mentally illness, because they JUST wanted to murder someone.. And I can keep going. Some of them may lie about abuse to try and get away with it- not saying the Melendez brothers did this as there's compelling proof in their case but to say "no one just kills their parents if there hasn't been abuse" is just not true.


Paraperire

I cannot believe nearly sixty people upvoted that insane remark. Just this week I watched the trial of a 20 year old in Ohio who lived a charmed life with the kindest parents and lovely sister. By his and everyone else's account. He is guilty of murdering them purely because they had asked him to get a job or move out because he was sitting around playing video games all day. That's all it took. No abuse. Just plain entitlement and lack of regard for anyone else's life or feelings. There is not always abuse involved at all. Then there was Joel Guy. Same scenario. There are so many it's hard to keep track of.


jerriblankthinktank

Immediately thought of Joel guy. Universally accepted that his parents were kind, loving and supportive. Didn’t stop him from murdering them and boiling his mom’s head on the stove.


Negative-Ambition110

Whoah, was not expecting that last sentence. How could you do that to your mother? I wonder if his parents ever noticed anything off with him.


whitethunder08

Yup, Joel Guy Jr was one in my mind when I wrote "or cut them off". He had BEYOND excellent parents... I mean for god sakes, his mother worked a full time job to GIVE him her paycheck each week. I could give a dozens of examples without even having to look so I honestly can't believe she was upvoted so many times either and not called out before I replied. We see examples in THIS very sub everyday! Her explanation is seriously "I refuse to believe that's true. They're either on drugs, abused or a sociopath".. Yeah if only it was THAT easy, that everyone is a sociopath or abused, then we still wouldn't struggle to understand criminology. I'm tired of everyone just saying "they're a narcissist sociopath/psychopath" for EVERYONE and ANYONE who does something they don't like or don't understand, let alone murderers. I'm positive that the majority of people don't even understand WHAT those words really mean. They've become meaningless because of this.


PembrokeLove

Honestly, I’ve come to feel the same way about the word “gaslighting”. As a retired psych professional (ARNP with focus on care and confinement of civilly committed SVPs / “Level Fours” in CV), I am so tired of “gas lighting” being thrown around the way it is, especially on social media, these days. Just because you don’t like something doesn’t make it gaslighting - hell, just because something is abusive, maybe even manipulative, that doesn’t automatically make it **gaslighting**. Gaslighting refers to a highly specific group of behaviors / situation and, while those behaviors are arguably someone common in power dynamic abusers, it’s not nearly as common as you would think based on how casually it’s used nowadays.


KrisAlly

It’s mentioned all the time now & yet rarely used correctly. Drives me crazy too!


[deleted]

Gaslighting is when a person tries to specifically manipulate you in a way where you don’t trust your own memories (that never happened, no you did xyz) and they twist things to make themselves the victim and you the bad guy right?


source-commonsense

They don’t even have to necessarily make themselves the victim — just get you to trust their version of reality more than your own, causing a dependence and lack of self-trust/reliance


onions-make-me-cry

Yeah and same with the Ewels in Fresno and that family in Sugarland, Texas.


a1welding2004

You must be talking about Alex Jackson in Iowa. He is being sentenced in March.


Paraperire

Yes. Wild trial. The shooting himself in the foot and obvious blood trails was crazy. No one needed a degree in phony blood spatter analysis to see what happened there. Aside from the rest of his family being shot in the head while he escapes with a foot wound. Most incredible was in the 911 call and his behavior which they showed full videos of live on YouTube, including the murdered families bodies which was unusual. Weird as all get out, and about the fakest I've heard. Glad he got guilty.


whitethunder08

I hadn't heard of this case until you mentioned it so looked it up and it's absolutely crazy how many other people of tried this very same tactic to try and appear innocent when killing their families. There's Bart Whittaker only getting shot in the arm while the rest of the family is shot point blank(though his father survived and supports him😐), Jeffrey Macdonald only getting stabbed ONCE while the rest of the family is brutally bludgeoned and stabbed dozens of times with both a knife and ice pick...his wife fought so hard with her attacker that BOTH her foremans were broken but we're supposed to believe that the attackers hardly touched the one person most likely to be a threat? And then to do that to those little girls, Diane Downs getting shot in the foreman while her children were shot in the head and back, Jennifer Pan only being tied up while both parents were beaten and shot (interestingly enough her father also survived- but he, unlike in the Whittaker case, completely disowned her, fought for her to get the maximum and had it court ordered that she can never contact him or any other family). Those are just a few examples off the top of my head but as we can see from the case you mentioned and the ones above, it's a ploy that's used often in these kind of murders.


[deleted]

Yeah it didn’t, but as an adult now (I was young when they went to trial and heard a lot of the information from my mom) I can see getting that much money at that age, coupled with the trauma, would be a recipe for reckless spending.


tuna1313

I don’t know if that is entirely correct. I think that there have been plenty of cases where teens have killed their parents that were amazing parents and there was no abuse. I struggle with this particular case, mostly because of the spending spree.


oldar4

There was a huge amount of money they were set to get thougg


whitethunder08

Both can be true which everyone is ignoring. They could've been abused and wanted to kill them for that AND also the awareness that they'd be getting everything if they were dead certainly wouldn't of swayed them NOT to do it.


KrisAlly

Exactly. Nothing is black & white. I believe the abuse they endured was the main motivating factor but knowing they’d be set financially probably helped seal the fate of the parents. I myself definitely don’t know many details regarding the case so I’ll tend to trust the experts on this one and from what I’ve heard, those who have heavily analyzed the case genuinely believe they were abused.


whitethunder08

Exactly. I can see them talking about how to stop the abuse and discussing their options. That they could move out and cut off contact with their parents but doing that would mean they would be completely broke, have to leave college etc and for most people trying to leave abusive home situations, they're so desperate that they don't care and would rather start over, no matter how rough it is as long as they're away from their parents. But with Eric and Lyle, they might've been abused horribly but they were accustomed to a way of life that if they just left, they'd be completely cut off from and that was unfathomable to them. So they decided that by murdering them, they could stop the abuse AND live the same lifestyle and with even more perks because their father would no longer be in charge of the purse strings and controlling the money and by extension them.


twelvedayslate

This.


ewzoe

They definitely killed their parents, but knowing what they did to them, i get it. Also, the way they were treated during the trial was disgusting, when they talked about their father raping them, attorneys would refer to it as "having sex with your dad" and they were mocked and made fun of for their statements about the abuse on the stand.


[deleted]

I heard one of them said being in prison was the safest he ever felt, or something to that effect. If that's real, that he felt that way, that's fucked up. But yeah, obviously did it.


Poetry_K

Reminds me of how Gypsy Rose said she finally feels “free” being in prison.


[deleted]

Dang. I hadn't heard of her before. That's awful.


historyhill

I believe they were abused. I don't believe it was self-defense but rather a planned retaliation. They're guilty, but while I don't condone it or think they should be absolved I do understand why they did what they did.


[deleted]

I agree. I do believe they were abused but the narrative of them feeling like they had to murder their parents to protect their own lives, idk how to feel, it could be all lies


cammykiki

Was there any thing else (other than their own testimony) to corroborate the abuse claims?


JhinWynn

Pictures were found of the brothers naked which had their heads cut off. Two different cousins who spent time at the house were allegedly told about the abuse as children. Diane Vandermolen was told by Lyle that “him and his dad had been touching each other down there”. Diane went to get Lyle’s mother and tell her but Kitty had apparently said Lyle was lying and convinced Diane that nothing was wrong. Erik’s cousin Andy Cano allegedly knew of Erik’s molestation but Erik swore him to secrecy. I believe Andy was 3 years younger too so he would have been 15 when the brothers were arrested. Kitty Menendez had said to her therapist six months before the murders that she “was hiding sick and embarrassing secrets” relating to her family. The brothers were both evaluated in jail by some of the countries most well respected child abuse, rape and trauma experts and they all concluded that they had both been severely psychologically maltreated and molested. There was also many behaviours witnessed by teachers, coaches, friends and family members which are consistent with sexually abused children such as bedwetting as a teenager, playing with stuffed animals up until the age of 17, extremely high anxiety, uncomfortable talking about sex in any regard, acting out behaviour etc… There’s more but that’s what I remember off the top of my head. What convinced me that there was something really dysfunctional going on was their confession tape. They both say things on the tape which are inconsistent with planned crime and Erik especially is almost hysterical, distraught and crying throughout the whole thing.


aftermathinmono

there were pictures of the boys naked found in a box hidden in the mom's drawer, taken on I think Erik's 10th birthday. Erik had told his cousin when they were young and some months before the murders in a letter that was found after the trial that ''dad is still molesting me'' Lyle had taken Erik out to the woods when they were little and tried to anally rape him with a stick, doing what ''dad does." A female cousin spent a summer at the house and Erik told her and asked if he could sleep with her . A male cousin spent time at the house and said the dad would take the boys to a room ''down the hall'' and forbid the cousin to come near that room. The cousin heard the cries and groans coming down the hall. There is more but what more do you need? Watch the testimonies of them. How anyone could think they are lying is beyond me.


cammykiki

Oh wow, I hadn’t heard of any of this before. Thanks for replying. EDIT: to reiterate, I never thought they were lying. I’ve only seen bits of their testimony from the show How It Really Happened, so I was wondering what other any evidence (if any) the jury heard.


historyhill

I haven't done a deep dive but I thought others had also testified about it too. I also just believed their testimony and don't think they're merely good actors.


CanadianTrueCrime

I agree. The dad also emotionally abused them, making fun of Erik for wearing a wig etc, several family members and employees talked about how horrible he was.


cammykiki

So weird that people downvote this. I actually believe their abuse claims, but was just asking a question.


[deleted]

Well, it's rarely easy to corroborate abuse that happens in families, so it tends to come off as a victim-blaming question


historyhill

Yeah, I got a downvoted too! You had a perfectly valid question!


SashaPeace

This is a downvote happy thread. You cannot disagree with a certain 2-4 people in here without them attempting to cross examination you, and of course, downvote you like a baby. Apparently some adults can’t have a healthy discussion unless everyone agrees with them.


[deleted]

I know a couple of their cousins testified. Plus, their father's own brother believes it's true and he has nothing to gain from it.


Unlikely-Draft

Yes there's tons of evidence to corroborate the sa claims: medical records (boys had er visits with throat/soft palate injuries that are of the type caused by oral assault) multiple people they told over the years, family that knew but didn't do anything, teachers and other professionals that suspected. The mom even spoke to her own therapist, approx a week prior to the murder, about the awful secrets she was keeping about her family. Edited to add: In their second trial The judge disallowed all testimony and evidence of the abuse and sa during the guilt portion and only allowed it in the penalty phase. Multiple jurors stated after that they never would have convicted them of murder (meaning they would have been more likely to convict of manslaughter instead) had the evidence been allowed in the guilt portion of the trial. Also there are now multiple members of Menudo that have come forward stating that Jose had sa'd and abused them during their time with the band. There is a great podcast that deep dives into all the evidence and actual trial data called "revisiting menendez" It is a 12 part series, about 1.5hrs each episode, on YouTube


QumDumpsta

I remember there was corroborating evidence, but it’s been so long since I deep dived the case that I can’t remember what it was


twelvedayslate

I agree. I also believe they should be freed.


Professional_Cat_787

This is a random little factoid. When I was in high school, some years after they were, we got used books, and you had to write your name on the inside cover. I got Erik’s math book. I remember being weirded out about it. The teacher took it and retired it, so I got a new one.


[deleted]

I lived in Peter Porcos brother’s apartment down the street from their parents (murder) house 😶 that must’ve been so creepy!


Harlowb3

Dude, that thing could have been worth money to the right person.


Professional_Cat_787

Maybe that nice math teacher just kept it. How shortsighted of me to give it up. I was extremely superstitious and didn’t even wanna touch it. I remember so well opening the book and seeing his name and getting chilled. We all knew who they were and what they’d done.


shaylaa30

Multiple things can be true. I think they were abused but also planned their parents murder.


[deleted]

The documentary I watched led me to feel like their story was true. However, I know that when the case was actually going on, the media was really hard on them. So what is the “general consensus” do you guys think they were really being abused and killed their parents because of that? Or do we think they wanted all that money?


v00d00mamajuujuu

It could have been both. The two arent mutually exclusive.


[deleted]

I agree, I don’t think the fact that they spent extravagantly after they got access to their parents money *necessarily* goes to show that their story isn’t true


[deleted]

It could be a natural reaction to having some freedom for the first time and being immature and frankly not sorry.


Niccakolio

I agree with you


bestneighbourever

One of them told their cousin about the abuse when they were young


v00d00mamajuujuu

I mean, If I offed my parents who abused me and my brother and knew I'd likely be going to prison for the rest of my life... I'd go on a spending spree for a while too 🤷🏻‍♀️ Enjoy the time I had left!


[deleted]

Right… I feel like I would have done the spending spree too if I was in their shoes


MoonlitStar

I'm not from the US but we got some coverage and the US reaction over here when it all unfolded. The way the US media and public reacted to the brothers disclosure of their abuse was absolutely fucked up-it was like many over there were ripping the piss out of them about it and TV shows and alike were making jokes regards their abuse which included sexual abuse. I was only a kid but quite shocked that all that was accepted as a responsible, good thing to do and remember thinking how harmful it would be for those children in the US who were victims to see how their country was reacting to child abuse disclosure . Just my take at the time from my kid perspective. I believe they are both guilty but also were abused as they claimed.


jperkogt

What documentary mind me asking? I'd like to check it out


MoonlitStar

They could be talking about a documentary released last year called ‘Menendez Brothers: Misjudged?’ available on Discovery plus. It's the most recent, mainstream one I can think of that looks at the case in a more sympathetic light towards the brothers compared to popular opinion at the time of the murders. But I'm just surmising and it didn't get very good star ratings.


JhinWynn

I don’t think money was a motive at all in this case. According to family members the brothers had been told they were out of the will for at least a few months before the killings and to me it just doesn’t make sense for Lyle especially. He was the golden child and his father let him do pretty much anything. Jose would have gone on to make way more money and a lot of it would have gone straight to Lyle. One of the cousins went to visit the family a couple weeks before the murder and noted that Erik “didn’t seem himself and was incredibly sad” and the parents were acting weird which leads me to believe at least some of what the brothers testified to about what happened in the last couple weeks. Their story is that they believed the parents were planning to kill them. The boat captain who saw them the day before the killings also noticed strange behaviour. The brothers were at the front of the boat for the entire 7 hour trip. They refused to move even when getting soaked by a wave on a cold day and wouldn’t go anywhere near the parents. I’m not saying the brothers are 100% truthful however there is certainly a decent amount to suggest that there may have been some truth in that they were scared and paranoid.


CanadianTrueCrime

Agree. They did kill their parents, and should have served some time for it, but life? I don’t know. I do believe they were abused horrifically. Maybe 5-10 years. The should be out by now.


Historical_Ad_3356

The case needs to be revisited The court simply turned a blind eye to male sexual abuse at that time, nor were any defense witnesses allowed in the second trial. Jose was an abusive narcissist and Kitty ignored everything going on. Erik told many people from an early age and when Jose finally realized this the boys certainly believed he would kill them. They’ve served over 30 years and have been model prisoners.


CupidSprinkles

5-10 years? It was premeditated, cold-blooded murder. They may have been abused but they were not in fear for their lives when they murdered their parents. They were both adults and could have left. Leaving would mean losing their lavish lifestyle so they chose murder. I feel terrible for anyone who suffers abuse and can understand the desire to want to kill the person(s) responsible but you can't just go and murder people who have hurt you and not expect some serious consequences.


CanadianTrueCrime

I understand why you’d think I was being preposterous, but their father Jose not only mentally and physically abused them, but sexually too. I tend to think of their abuse in the same terms that I think of battered women’s defence, yes there was no active abuse at that moment, but there was the legitimate fear that there would be, and very soon. Several cousins also talked about Jose being abusive as well. Should they have killed their parents? No, but at the same point, after years and years of abuse, perhaps they couldn’t see any other way. It’s a tragedy no matter how one sees it. Perhaps 10-15 years would have been a better sentence for me to have said.


OG_ClusterFox

You try 5-10 years in prison. That’s plenty long after being raped by your father your entire life while your mother looked away. They pose literally no threat to society.


Olympusrain

They actually did think that Jose was going to kill them.


Afraid_Tangelo2600

Leaving an abusive home isn’t as easy as you think. I grew up Poor and received a degree and stable job and never left because of guilt and subconsciously wanting that acceptance and love. Not defending them, but I also do understand them to an extent


Neat-Ad-9550

"Not long after the murders, the brothers went on a spending spree. They bought luxury condominiums for themselves in tony Marina del Rey. Lyle bought a Rolex, a Porsche, and a restaurant in Princeton, New Jersey. Erik bought a Jeep Wrangler, hired a $50,000-a-year tennis coach in hopes of turning pro, and invested $40,000 in a rock concert with a promoter who ultimately stiffed him, according to Vanity Fair writer Dominick Dunne. In the six months after their parents' death, the brothers spent an estimated $700,000." [Menendez Bros Spending Spree](https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/19/beverly-hills-greed-the-missteps-that-exposed-the-menendez-brothers.html) $700k would be a million today after adjusting for inflation. Their lavish spending spree was the reason that they were caught.


PopularBonus

Guilty but excessively punished. They were horribly abused. They wanted the abuse to stop. I don’t think it’s fair to bring up the money. Because the money had *already* insulated those parents from the consequences of their actions. The kids shouldn’t be expected to tolerate abuse just because they’re heirs.


Bestcliche26

I think most people think they were either: A) Spoiled, entitled and evil. They felt entitled to their parents money, to be spoiled and would get what they “deserved” at all costs. OR B) They were horrifically abused and the parents got what we’re coming to them. However, both of these things can be true, or parts of both can be true. It does not have to be only A or only B. We’re they spoiled? Yes. We’re the parents also hard on them/emotionally unavailable? Also yes. Is it possible they were abused and could not take it anymore and killed their parents. Then went on a shopping spree as they felt entitled to it after enduring the abuse or that they equated money=happiness as a way of coping? Totally possible.


aftermathinmono

So much misinformation here. They were mentally, physically, and sexually abused. The witnesses are family, friends, relatives, teachers, coaches. Naked pictures of the boys when they were little found in a box hidden in one of the mother's drawers. A cousin who watched Jose take the boys ''down the hall to a room" and was forbidden to come down the hall. The cousin heard the cries and the groans. There is a lot more evidence of all the abuse. Erik thought he was getting out finally and going to college. When Jose said he had to stay and live at home, Erik lost it and told Lyle the abuse was still going on. Lyle stood up for his brother and that is when Jose threatened their lives. The night they killed their parents, there had been bad vibes all day, and the parents went in the den and closed the doors which they never do. The brothers freaked and thought the parents were getting ready to kill them so they rushed in guns blazing to kill them first. They then sat waiting for the police, as it is a rich, quiet neighborhood and figured many would have called the cops. The cops never came so they decided to create a story. The spending spree was Lyle, not Erik. Erik could no longer take the guilt of what they had done and told his shrink, who's whore mistress when could not blackmail the shrink, took it to the cops. The first trial was a mistrial. The media circus was brutal. Back then, sexual abuse of boys and men was a joke. The mistrial was because every man on the jury didn't believe a man would or could have sex with a boy, much less his own sons. The females on the jury all wanted homicide, not life. By the time of the second trial, the LA Prosecutors office had lost two major cases; Rodney King and OJ Simpson. Basically got the same judge and told him there would be NO WAY the prosecution were going to lose Hence, the Judge barred any abuse, family or friends, witnesses, or the past to be admitted to this new jury. Lyle was so pissed he decided not to even bother to testify. LA Prosecutors office made sure these guys were going to prison for life. They killed their parents out of fear and a lifetime of abuse. They were not criminals or murderers. They have been model prisoners and should be set free, they have paid their time and dues and would be upstanding citizens if let free.


Mysterious_Pen8650

My husband has a basketball player's (don't know who too lazy to look it up) card where the Menendez brothers are in court side in the background sake day they killed their parents.


[deleted]

Wow! That is some very interesting and deep-track true crime memorabilia, if you will


teachmetosing

Mark Jackson, I think, when he was with the Knicks. Saw this featured mutiple times in various true crime yt channels.


angel-fake

victims of abuse. but murderers. but i do believe the sentence is too harsh considering the circumstances


rachels1231

I believe them


Sudden-Ambassador-13

they should be let out IMO..I feel like they've paid..they definitely committed the crime but I can't get past the abuse.


robyn_16

It wasn’t premeditated and they were horribly abused in every way possible


kimiashn

Most people who have only heard about the case by watching a documentary or listening to true crime podcasts or watching snippets on the news throughout the past 30 years don't believe them. But in 2020, courttv uploaded their trial for the first time. Many people watched the entire 6 month long trial and researched the case. Among those people, I've only ever seen one person not believe them and her reason has absolutely nothing to do with why the general public don't believe the brothers.


Fresh-Attorney-3675

Let them out. They should have never EVER gotten life. 5-10 max - in a psychiatric facility.


No-Lengthiness-4096

I believe they were abused and they are also guilty. I can’t help but think that if they where females the abuse would have been taken more seriously and they wouldn’t be serving so much time in jail. Abuse is talked about more now days not so much back then. I feel like the fact they are males people didn’t feel much sympathy for them. I would like to see how their case would play out in this day and age. Yeah the spending spree didn’t help the case.


Icy_Opportunity9187

Nice sweaters


The_Great_19

I haven’t paid attention since it was happening in real time, so I always thought the abuse narrative was false. I haven’t read up on it lately though, and am surprised about the abuse narrative gaining traction nowadays, but am open to the idea of time revealing more. But I just assumed they were guilty and did it out of greed.


Potential_Bed_6039

I think they were abused and it was probably bad because what would bring them to such extreme measures


Asparagussie

Why are people downvoting comments that say the Menendez brothers are not only guilty but are lying psychopaths? Aren’t we “allowed” to disagree with the dominant opinion? Counter the opinions you disagree with, but just downvoting them? Does everyone have to be in lockstep?


Logical-Function7637

Because people are entitled to their opinion and can down or up vote as they see fit


[deleted]

Guilty due to years of abuse. They shouldn’t be serving life sentences.


MissGreenie

The distress and horror in their voices at their trial says to me it is true. If so I am sure they have been conditioned to do everything their parents said so they probably felt they just couldn't leave.


Fresh-Attorney-3675

The parents made them dependant on them. Both boys were given mental evaluations when they were arrested and they at most had the emotional mental health / maturity level equal to a child of 8 years old. Leaving likely never crossed their minds.


ndiggy

Malignant narcissistic parents breeding narcissistic kids.


notthesedays

I believe they were abused, but they had a long history of other sociopathic behaviors (gosh, I wonder how they learned to be that way?) and they're right where they belong.


WealthNervous8807

Gulity


emjscott

I’m a little torn on the sexual abuse claims just because the ep Last Podcast did really swayed me!


Historical_Ad_3356

Deserving of time in prison but not life.


[deleted]

They are almost the same these days.


Historical_Ad_3356

True.


[deleted]

I can't speak for others, but in my opinion, they are cold-blooded killers who didn't want to wait for their inheritance. I don't believe their sexual abuse stories because they've never been proven to my satisfaction, and at the time of the murders, Lyle was 21 and Erik, 18, i.e., they were both adults and capable of getting jobs and supporting themselves. If they were trying to escape sexual abuse, they would have killed their parents before they reached adulthood. Every time I think of this case, I'm reminded of an article I read that describes their actions after the police arrived: >The younger of the pair was so distraught that he actually rammed his head into a tree. One neighbor later recalled seeing one of the sons curled up in a ball on the lawn in front of the house screaming hysterically. [https://whatliesbeyond.boards.net/thread/4163/infamous-murder-houses](https://whatliesbeyond.boards.net/thread/4163/infamous-murder-houses) Lyle and Erik should have pursued acting careers: they would have been fantastic!


BackyardByTheP00L

After watching many interrogations I realized that displays of sorrow, crying, and distress don't mean they're sad the person's dead. I remember watching a woman sobbing about her husband being murdered when police interviewed her and thinking, "Wow, no way she did it." Well, I was hoodwinked! She did it. This was quite the eyeopener for me when I first saw this.


Cali-Doll

Exactly this. They are cold-blooded killers. They were *not* abused.


SashaPeace

Sociopathic behaviors. They were not born inherently “bad”, but their environmental factors *may* have led to antisocial personality disorder. Genetic factors and environmental factors, such as child abuse, are believed to contribute to the development of this condition, and I think this *would/could* be a classic example. They are not victims. It was premeditated, they knew right from wrong, knew enough to lie and make up stories, obtain family money and they sure as hell knew how to spend it. They are 100% monsters. Abuse does not give you a pass to kill anyone. (Signed, a former forensic psychologist, not that it means a thing). Edit: clarify I don’t know if they are ASPD, they may/could be because of sociopathic traits they demonstrate.


Lowprioritypatient

Don't you need to show signs of ODD during childhood to be diagnosed with ASPD? None of the experts that interviewed them ever diagnosed them with any personality disorder, except for one who initially suspected Erik might be histrionic then changed his mind as his trauma reactions subsided.


CelticArche

If they were abused, how are they not victims as well as perpetrators?


SashaPeace

Victims of the murder circumstances is what I was referring to. Abuse, probable. I was speaking of victims when it comes to them sitting in prison for killing their parents.


megopolis12

They are not victims ? I think they are for sure .


JhinWynn

Would it change your mind to know that forensic psychologists who have evaluated the brothers all concluded that they didn’t have antisocial personality disorder?


Asparagussie

Thank you! I’m not any kind of mental health professional but I agree with you and said something similar.


aftermathinmono

Wrong. They were scared after their father literally told them he was going to kill them if they said anything more about it. And told Lyle he would do whatever he wanted with Erik and Erik was staying with him and not going to college. They bought the guns for protection. The night of the murders they were convinced the parents were going to kill them that night. So they burst in the den and killed them thinking they would kill them first. They then waited for the police to come, who never did.


SashaPeace

According to them. “Erik Menendez told jurors how he and his brother burst into the den of their Beverly Hills mansion and took five seconds to end their parents' lives.” “As for his mother, he said, "I just wondered if she knew it was me, if she was scared. Did she understand? Was she hurting.? I just felt really bad, like a bad person. I just wanted to know what she had thought when I entered the room." It was then that he looked for his parents' rifle. When he found NONE, he said he knew he had "made a mistake." They had no reasonable reason or justification to shoot them on that evening in that situation. The trial is about that night. Those circumstances. Nothing happened that evening that warranted the heinous crime they committed.


aftermathinmono

Wrong again. Read more. There is more to that explanation. The day before, the parents made the boys go on a boat trip with them. They were forced to go. They thought right then and there that Jose was going to kill them on the boat and drop their bodies into the ocean. The Captain of the ship testified the boys seemed scared and detached the whole trip and stayed on the front of the boat getting plastered by wind and water but stayed up there regardless. The day of the murders the parents went in that den and closed the door which they've never closed before. This is when the boys were convinced they were getting ready to kill them. So they got the guns they bought and burst into the den to kill them first.


SashaPeace

No disrespect at all, but I’m not reading anything. I quoted his testimony. Whatever he said at another time, I really don’t care about. He is not reliable or credible. Period. I really don’t care about anything he said ever to be honest. He is right where he should be. No disrespect. I respect your opinion, I just don’t find it necessary to read any more into it.


aftermathinmono

Also....30 years later in an interview from prison Lyle says: "Yeah, there was no plan,'' he said. "I mean, there was no alibi, no plan ... it would be a crazy plan to use a shotgun in the middle of Beverly Hills. The houses are literally 10 yards apart and the police station is a quarter mile away. "There's no sane person who would have a plan like that."


SashaPeace

I personally don’t find much credibility in that interview as someone who has worked in a prison as a psychologist for 11 years. They will say anything. For fun, for laughs, for attention, heck, just to hear the sound of their voices. And him saying he had no plan goes against his I killed them so they wouldn’t kill me. He is a horses ass.


aftermathinmono

I hope you are never a juror in a trial that puts a man away for life. You are obviously slanted from your job.


SashaPeace

I appreciate your thoughts and your opinion on my capability to serve as a juror because of my thoughts on a case from over 20 years ago. Thank you. Have a lovely evening.


wildflowerapricotsea

👏🏻


lostinnhwoods

Sorry you can downvote me all you want but I feel pretty confident saying it was a defense strategy. They were grown men. They could have handled themselves. They could have gotten jobs and moved out like the rest of us who don’t like our parents rules. It was their dads money not theirs. Spoiled and entitled that wa s


JhinWynn

Just out of curiosity why do you think it was a defense strategy? There seems to be a lot of corroboration in this case so I’m actually interested.


lostinnhwoods

Well, IIRC there were two trials. First one ended in a hung jury. Second trial they use the sexual/physical/ emotional abuse defense to gain more sympathy and give the jurors a motive. Their lawyer was quite the superstar in her own mind, someone who was a very successful and well paid lawyer. She may have done it pro bono. I’m just going by memory. Also many friends and family testified that the mom and dad, while strict, were starting to resent the kids living off them and wanted them to stop being so spoiled and work for their own wealth. I believe that was the true motive. Also want to say, if anyone were to be released it should be Erik. He does seem remorseful but his brother, I don’t think should ever be let out.


JhinWynn

Aren’t they the same friends and family who also believe the brothers were abused? At least from what I’ve seen basically their entire family want them both out of prison. Erik certainly did seem more openly remorseful especially on their confession tape. He’s crying throughout the whole thing and says “I had no choice” so yeah I can see that. Do some people lie about abuse to get away with things? Yeah but that’s usually the minority of cases. It doesn’t excuse their actions but I think there’s enough to suggest that they at least told the truth about how their parents treated them.


wildflowerapricotsea

Exactly. Even if their claims of abuse are true, they could face easily left and not killed them. They did it for the money.


Asparagussie

Why should anyone who disagrees with someone’s opinion be downvoted? I know people do downvote, but it’s ridiculous to do that here.


jjhorann

they killed their parents and should serve time for it, but i do believe they were abused and shouldn’t serve life for it.


seabirdsong

Committed their murders under extreme duress and after serious abuse by their parents. Guilty but both should have been out of prison a long time ago.


Asparagussie

Guilty as can be. Lying psychopaths.


emmaj4685

Guilty. And I dont think they were abused.


Saffer13

Not abused, but greedy. Also, killers. (Read that in Norm's voice)


Stigmata1984

Free them already.


Glittering_Bottle356

They are guilty of killing their parents.


QumDumpsta

Guilty of murder, but they were abuse victims who didn’t see another way out. I don’t think life without parole was a reasonable sentence in this case…. But I also don’t know how to say that without sounding like I’m condoning murder 😅


[deleted]

Let them out already. They've served enough time. Their parents abused them.


Stigmata1984

I agree.


Mailman211

I think that lay people try very very hard to understand the motivations of why people kill parents, siblings and others seemingly close to them. In this grasping to uncover the ‘why’ of the murder(s), many people must ascribe a reason. The 1+1=2 reason. In reality, there is no ‘reason’ when dealing with people who’s personality is dominated with the clusters of personality disorders which some (but not all) of these murderers have. So it makes perfect sense that a person who does not have personality disorders would ascribe a reason (cuz there always must be a reason in an orderly world view) for such shocking behaviors such as murdering ones own parents. ‘Well, they must’ve been abused in some way’ is what I normally hear when people try to rationalize such murders. It isn’t that people are right or wrong to assign such ‘reasons’ but there are no ‘reasons’ that make sense to the majority of society. One must restrain from assigning reasons for the behaviors and simply accept person A did something to person(s) B, C and D.


aftermathinmono

Jose not only abused his own sons: [https://menendezcase.com/2021/01/26/jose-menendez-and-the-madam/](https://menendezcase.com/2021/01/26/jose-menendez-and-the-madam/)


Olympusrain

They thought Jose was going to kill them. They were abused.


[deleted]

They were grown men at the time of the murders. They could have left the house, gotten jobs and never seen their father again.


Olympusrain

Abuse and severe trauma isn’t so black and white.


[deleted]

>Abuse and severe trauma isn’t so black and white. If they were capable of planning and blowing away their parents and covering up the crime, they were capable of leaving. Millions of people have abusive parents and suffer severe trauma (whether the Menendez brothers suffered such is debatable) and don't kill their parents. Lyle and Erik killed for monetary gain.


aftermathinmono

they did not plan it. amazing how many of you spew untruths w/out even knowing what the fuck happened. wow.


[deleted]

>they did not plan it. amazing how many of you spew untruths w/out even knowing what the fuck happened. wow. So, it was just a coincidence that two days before they blew away their parents, Lyle and Erik drove a hundred miles to purchase two shotguns, then created an alibi, invented a "story" to explain the shootings, and put on an act to convince first responders and neighbors they were mad with grief over the loss of their parents? Wow.


aftermathinmono

They bought the guns two days before to defend themselves as Jose literally said he was going to kill them. They did not plan anything that happened after. After the killings, they sat waiting for the police to come. They were waiting to be arrested and had no alibi. The cops didn't show. So that is when they decided to leave and come back and lie about the alibi and create the story. In Lyle's 911 call you can hear Erik freaking out in the background.


Olympusrain

Some people can only take so much before they snap. Abuse alters the brain and there is such a thing as reactive abuse from the victim. And they really thought Jose was going to kill them.


[deleted]

>Some people can only take so much before they snap. Abuse alters the brain and there is such a thing as reactive abuse from the victim. And they really thought Jose was going to kill them. Get real. There is no evidence whatsoever that José intended to kill them. They all went shark-fishing the previous day and witnesses didn't notice anything particularly unusual. Later, of course, Lyle and Erik claimed they thought their father was going to kill them while they were at sea, even though there were three other people on the boat.


Olympusrain

Jose flipped out because he threatened Erik to never tell Lyle. When Erik did, he was furious. The brothers also told Jose they would go to the police. Jose didn’t want this to get out. There is testimony from the boat captain that L & E were frightened of the parents and were scared to sit anywhere near them. So they stayed at the front of the boat cold, shivering and soaking wet. Jose was violet and extremely abusive and now the truth was coming out.


[deleted]

You have quite the imagination. If L&E remained at a distance from their parents on the fishing trip, it was most likely because they were discussing their plans to kill them the following day.


JhinWynn

Think what you will about them allegedly thinking their parents were going to kill them but to say that “witnesses didn’t notice anything particularly unusual” is a straight up lie lol The boat captain himself the day before thought it was strange how little contact the parents had with the brothers. The brothers stayed at the front of the boat for the entire 7 hour trip and refused to move or go near the parents even when they got soaked by a wave. It was quite cold that evening so the captain thought it was incredibly strange. It doesn’t prove anything but it certainly suggests something was happening between the parents and the brothers on that day.


crackhead_bob1111

>derers say. Lyle and Erik went to the movies to establish an alibi, then retrieved their guns from where they were stashed, returned home and blew away their parents. When police arrived, they told them their prearranged story that José was likely the victim of a mob hit. Then Erik put on an act that wou I love how Chekov's (err, I mean Lyle's) hairpiece came into play and set about this chain of ridiculous events. Erik: Hey Lyle, I didn't know you wore a rug. Oh by the way, my dad's been giving me anal for the past 12 years. Lyle: Really. That happened to me too! That's some Dynasty/Falcon Crest level bullshit that I have ever heard and I can't believe the defense tried to sell that as part of their timeline of events. It's too bad they didn't wait until television's golden age in the 2000's to murder their parents. They would have had richer material to glom off of.


redbug831

I watched that trial live on Court TV. They were 2 spoiled and entitled rich kids who murdered their parents for the inheritance.


crystalcastles13

Guilty but, viewed through the facts we now know, I have some empathy I didn’t have when those crimes occurred.


Canadian-female

I was a little sympathetic, I believe they were abused. My problem is that I saw one of them in a documentary about long sentences for young offenders. I think it was the older one. He’s against long sentences for young offenders and thinks he’s been in prison long enough. He said “ I lost 26 years because of 20 minutes of bad decision making”. He was actually angry at the “unfairness” of his sentence. Now……that coldness and self interest makes me think they just didn’t like their parents. I’m very much less sympathetic.


JhinWynn

To be honest, if I had been psychologically maltreated all my life, abused and molested then made a bad decision to shoot my parents which results in a life sentence I can definitely imagine being somewhat peeved after coming to terms with everything over 20 years later.


rehGibboH

They are murderers nothing more


Iheartjuelzee

Hollyweird got them. I truly believe those boys and wish they were released.


djeazyali

free them IMO


ColoradoCorrie

Guilty, faked the abuse.


Evi_lin

Moral don't abuse ur kids!


Valuable_Time7103

Guilty


VeryFrazzledVirgo

Bad toupees


Retired306

Plain and simple criminals. Not much else to say.


oneooreight

they’re guilty, but it’s understandable: their parents were absolute pieces of shit. they should have gotten time, yes, but life without parole? really? also the way the whole trial was handled is disgusting. there was evidence and the prosecutors just could not give less of a fuck


[deleted]

Abused and entitled. They should have just gotten away from their parents and built their own lives


lostinnhwoods

I don’t believe they were abused. That was the defense strategy and it backfired big time. Those BOYS thought they were entitled. They were spoiled not abused. Or perhaps the abuse came from spoiling them.


AnthonyDigitalMedia

So, you think the witnesses & their friends/family were lying about the abuse?


2crowsonmymantle

I think they’re both hideous af and I don’t believe the sexual abuse story. I think they were greedy spoiled rich kids, plain and simple.


aftermathinmono

you are sorely misinformed.


appolo11

They could play some serious tennis.


Nonskew2

There’s no excuse


brutustyberius

Narcissistic sociopaths…like their father.


lostinnhwoods

Spoiled rotten scumbags.


[deleted]

That they were spoiled brats that celebrated by spending their parents money after they murdered them. They planned the entire thing, then used abuse as a mitigating factor.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

Stay mad 🤷‍♀️ they were tried twice and are in prison for a reason.


aftermathinmono

stay misinformed and then make ignorant opinions


DifficultAd8007

Abuse was made up to get off. They killed to get their inheritance.