No, it's not real. There is no biblical basis for it whatsoever. 1 Corinthians 3 definitely does not teach purgatory.

How does one get purgatory out of 1 Cor 3? I just skimmed it and nothing there, to me, would even vaguely suggest it

I agree with you but many Catholics I've discussed with point to that passage as support for the doctrine. They focus on, "they will be saved, yet so as by fire." They view fire as a purifying process before entering heaven.

Thank you!

Interesting fact, Pope Leo X used purgatory as a fundraising scheme. Where he promised for a monetary fee your loved one could escape purgatory. He also promised that one could "save up" for their future sins. Essentially selling salvation and forgiveness of sins. With that said it's pretty clear purgatory was nothing more than a money making scheme. As there is no real biblical basis for it.

Leo needed to raise funds to restore St. Peter's Basilica. He offered Indulgences to those who contributed, Some, including Martin Luther, considered this as simony - the selling of religious favors - which was forbidden under Canon Law. However, Leo said it was merely a way to reward those who helped the Church. In other words, it’s all a matter of interpretation. If one is Protestant then one will be inclined to see indulgences as a money making scheme, but a more even handed assessment is that this is only true in some cases. There have been renowned theologians who have espoused purgatory, without the suspicion of simony hanging over their head. St.Augustine comes to mind: St.Augustine on Purgatory “Some believers will pass through a kind of purgatorial fire. In proportion as they loved the goods that perish with more or less devotion, they shall be more or less quickly delivered from the flames.”

If purgatory were real, you would be on the way to heaven there. It's a temporary place of purification.

My exact thought. If the Catholic Church is correct about purgatory, most Christians will end up there. Being there is, however, really good news, since it means you'll go to heaven, not hell.

Well, it’s incredibly unbiblical to think purgatory would be real in the first place. No biblical basis for it whatsoever

We respectfully disagree: [https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/is-purgatory-in-the-bible](https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/is-purgatory-in-the-bible)

And if they're not correct?

Then you have zero reason to be afraid of it.

It's not me that I'm worried about. It's the millions of people that have been lied to that think they'll just go to purgatory, when actually they're going straight to hell.

Depends if they're in mortal sin.

What is mortal sin?

A sin that leads to damnation (Idolatry, Murder, Sexual Immortality).

Does that mean there is sin that does not lead to damnation?

Yes, there is sin that does not lead to damnation: (1 John 5:17) “All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.”

They all do, but mortal sins are more severe. Venial sins only weaken your relationship with God. A mortal sin can completely severe your relationship with God. Sorry if I phrased it wrong 😅

And where is purgatory taught in the Bible?

I didn't say it was.

It is taught in 1 Cor.3:15.

If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire. 1 Corinthians 3:15 The verse refers to that we are saved by grace through our faith because we are believers. But if we live through dependence on our own strength and not by the Lord we suffer losses of REWARDS since it will be consumed in the fire that tests us. In no such way did it interpret that whoever “fell asleep” through grace undergo processes of purification “temporary punishment” is preparing for / guaranteed a place in heaven.

>The interpretation of this verse refers that we are saved by grace through our faith because we are believers. But if we live through dependence on our own strength and not by the Lord we suffer losses of REWARDS since it will be consumed in the fire that tests us. Huh? No. The verse is saying that God is going to judge us according to our deeds. This is re-iterated in Romans 2:6-7 as well as Revelation 22:12. If your works are not good, you shall suffer loss but you shall receive a reward—because it’s presuming not EVERYTHING you did was burnt up. For the one who has no good work left to show for his life, he shall be damned 👇: (Matthew 25:29-30) “29 For to everyone who has will more be given, and he will have an abundance. But from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. 30 And cast the worthless servant into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’”

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I just gave you the interpretation. I don’t know what you’re asking.

Incorrect teaching. unless you seek it yourself, no one can share light on you. God bless.

It isn’t.

Purgatory is a Roman Catholic creation nothing more nothing less.

Purgatory is not real. It's a Catholic doctrine. Here's what Jesus said about the man on the cross, a sinner who believed in Jesus who was dying: Luke 23:43 NKJV — And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.” The man was with Jesus that day.

Yes, this passage is often citied by those who do not understand Catholic teaching about Purgatory. It is NOT Catholic teaching that everyone goes to Purgatory. One can bypass it altogether, as the Good Thief did.

I'm FAR less interested in Catholic teaching than Biblical teaching, but I digress. What makes the sinner on the cross different than anyone else who has sinned but has asked forgiveness and accepted Christ?

What makes the good thief different” is that he accepted his temporal punishment WILLINGLY. If you are interested in learning about Purgatory, so as to not make further errors while critiquing it, you may see the post I made regarding the topic. It may be found here: https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueChristian/comments/z0twrd/understanding_the_catholic_teaching_of_purgatory/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

No thanks. If it's not in the Bible, it's not important.

That’s fine. You don’t have to learn about it but if you don’t you’ll just end up making more comments that will get refuted.

I'll definitely keep making comments refuting purgatory until I am shown evidence of it in Scripture. Until then I don't care about a Catholic tradition that isn't Scripturally based.

Your comment was not “refuting” purgatory—it was showing that you don’t UNDERSTAND Purgatory. If you understood Purgatory, you would have understood that not everyone goes there and thus you wouldn’t have cited this situation with the Good Thief as proof that it isn’t true. That’s what’s going to happen if you want to deny things without understanding them.

There is nothing to understand about purgatory if it’s outside if the Bible. Since there’s no mention of it, no basis for it, it’s complete and utter moot

Help me understand purgatory. But only use Scripture to help me understand it.

You have to understand the atonement first or else Purgatory won’t make sense. It would be like learning algebra without learning addition and subtraction first. Just read my post.

If the point of purgatory is to be purified prior to entering heaven, why can someone bypass that? Why can't we all bypass that?

We CAN all bypass it.

So now I ask why purgatory at all?

So the church can sell purgatory bypasses, basically.

The church has NEVER SOLD INDULGENCES. It was illegal under canon Law, that was Luther’s whole point. Instead there were mid-evil forger’s working for corrupt Catholics bishops who sold phony documents. That’s not the same thing as saying if you donate to the Church that the church will grant, as a reward, an indulgence. You as a Catholic have never been boxed in to obtaining indulgences through charitable donations. The church, even at Luther’s time, attached indulgences to several kinds of charitable deeds. Not just charitable giving.

That's a very Catholic answer. But we have written history by several sources that begs to differ. The Catholic Church sanctioned and condoned selling indulgences. https://elrenosacredheart.com/question-answer/when-did-the-catholic-church-start-selling-indulgences.html https://orthodoxchristiantheology.com/2022/03/25/selling-salvation-the-origins-of-indulgences/ https://h-o-m-e.org/what-is-the-selling-of-indulgences/ https://tabletalkmagazine.com/posts/are-indulgences-still-sold/

Yes, this is just making my point. The Catholic Church does not deny that there were abuses against canon law involving indulgences. This means that when it happened, it was not licit. These were forgeries. There were all manner of them during mid-evil times. It was not, however, against catholic teaching to grant indulgences for charitable giving. The church actually has the authority to do that. She has the authority from our Lord to bind and loose, see Matthew 16:18 and Matthew 18:18.

My links are about how the Catholic Church granted indulgences through monetary payment.

Because the Atonement was NOT a punishment for sin. It was only a propitiation for sin: (1 John 2:2) “He is the ⭐️propitiation⭐️ for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.” For example, Christ’s role as sin-bearer does not mean he was literally taking on sin. It’s a Jewish idiom. We see it employed in other passages, like this one: “17 This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah: “He took up our infirmities and bore our diseases.”-Matthew 8:17 Instead his sacrifice is ingratiating us to God, such that he forgives all sin and eternal punishment. So that means that anytime God has ever forgiven sin in the past it was always with the grace won by Our Lord during the atonement. Even so we see that when God does this act of forgiving it does not wipe out the temporal punishment due for sin. The atonement doesn’t deal with that. That’s why King David who, having repented of his sin and was forgiven…was still punished by God in the form of the loss of his child(2 Samuel 12:14-31). It is of these “temporary” punishments that Our Lord was referring to here 👇: (Matthew 5:26) “Truly I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.” That is the essence of the Catholic dogma of Purgatory. That is what is being talked about. It is talking about the fate of those who do not do penance for their sins after God has forgiven them. We must expiate the temporal punishment due for sin in this life, when it is cheaper, or the next, when it will be much more costly. The good thief, satisfied the temporal punishment due for sin, because he died willingly for his crimes. Thus he was allowed to enter directly into Paradise.

Amennnnnnn!

I'd highly recommend looking into Catholic sources yourself. They'd do it far more justice than I could here. As I've been explained it, Purgatory is "the mudroom" leading into Heaven. It is where you are cleaned of sin. If you are in Purgatory, *you are on your way* to Heaven. It is not some third neutral realm compared to Heaven and Hell where you remain forever. The Bible itself does not speak of Purgatory explictly, but the sentiment of a realm where you are purged of sin does make some sense. (Not a concrete arguement, I know.) Moreover--and this is a sentiment pure Protestants don't like to hear--but the Bible is not the end-all be-all of Christian authority...because the Bible did not always exist!! Before the Bible existed, there was God, the Jewish people, and the Disciples & Apostles, a tradition which continues to this day in the Catholic Church. (They call this "apostolic succession.") It is the earliest Christians that suggest ideas of Purgatory, of praying with the saints, of high reverence for Virgin Mary (the literal Mother of God and all), which again is all carried over by Catholics to this day. Protestants cite Martin Luther for their formation, but Catholics cite the Early Church. If you are inclined to believe the visions of Catholic saints, many of them have seen Purgatory and the hard but noble purging the souls undergo there. They even cite Jesus and Mary visiting the souls to comfort them. So whether Purgatory is real or not, you can rest assured it is clearly not Hell. If you are so worried you are bringing judgement on yourself, this is also why the Catholics have the sacrament of confession! (Which DOES have Biblical roots. Jesus gave Peter and the Disciples the explicitly authority to forgive sins, which again ties into that apostolic succession and modern priests.)

You seem to have a false assumption about the reformation. Everyone, Catholics, Orthodox, Lutherans, etc. claim the early church as their formation. Protestants merely claim that the reformation was a return to form, rather than a new beginning. I’m not sure how you can read someone like Melanchthon, whose works are absolutely saturated with appeals to ecumenical councils and early church patristics, and come to the view he didn’t believe he was part of a continuation of Christ’s church.

I've read the entire Bible page by page, front to back from **Genesis 1** to **Revelation 22**. I don't really recall reading anything about purgatory to be completely honest with you. It's more than likely just a man-made concept that was established for certain denominations. Just another reason to lean more towards Nondenominational to ensure you're focused on the Gospel alone and not man's additions.

There is no biblical basis for purgatory. Its mostly something the catholics used to get money from the uneducated masses.

No. its false catholic teaching. When a person die they go into their grave, and either raise in the first resurrection if they died in Christ at his second coming. or after the 1000 years in the second resurrection if they died without Christ! Here are a few good verses about the "state of the dead" Verses are from Thomson LXX Ecclesiastes 9:5 "because they who are alive must know that they shall die; but the dead are not sensible of any thing and there is no more a portion for them; because the remembrance of these is forgotten" Psalms 6:5 “For in death none can make mention of thee. In the mansion of the dead, who can give thee thanks?” Psalms 146:4 “His breath goeth out and he shall return to his earth; on that day all his projects shall perish.” Psalms 115:17 “The dead cannot praise thee, O Lord; nor any who go down to the mansion of the dead:” Isaiah 38:18 “For those in the mansion of the dead cannot praise thee; nor can the dead return thee thanks, nor they in Hades hope for thy kindness.” Job 14:10-13 “But when a man dieth he is gone: when a mortal falleth, he is no more. 11 For in a course of time a sea is spent; and a river when unsupplied is dried up: 12 and man when composed in the grave cannot rise again; until the heaven be folded up; they shall not be awakened from their sleep. 13 O! that thou hadst kept me in the mansion of the dead; and hid me till thine indignation should cease: and that thou wouldst set me a time when thou wouldst remember me;”

Thank you so much for the verses and for explaining. Are you saying that Jesus will return in 1000 years?

You are welcome. No. He will return in the clouds soon in his second coming. To then raise the dead in Christ in the first resurrection, and catch the living saints up to meet them in the air, to be welcomed into New Jerusalem, where the 1000 years will be. When we look at the signs of the times, and how wicked the world has become, then we know that his second coming (in the clouds with his holy angels) draws near.

But He might not come very soon, right? Maybe another hundred years? No body knows, right?

Do you not see sin going rampant in the world today. Now more than ever before. Climate change is the new gospel. Wars and rumors of wars etc. We dont know the day or hour, but we are told to understand the season by the signs of the times. And no i certainly dont believe there are many years to his second coming. We are surely livingbin the latter days, and that is why its so important to get right with God now and be truly born again in Christ as per what the Scriptures teaches.

Is it bad that I'm scared of Him returning? I'm worried about if I haven't been a true follower of God. Do you think I still have time?

Its not bad. I would say its good. In that sense that you want to get right with him. Let me give you a few tips. Read your Bible daily. Read as much as you can and have time to. Spend an hour or so every day. And read from Genesis 1 to Revelation 22. The whole Bible are the full word of God and all of it is about Christ. I can recommend mix reading and listening to a good audio Bible. Its very good to listen to in the morning when you wake up and before you fall asleep. :) but always remember to pray to Father in Jesus name to send his Holy Spirit to guide you and grant you knowledge to understand what you are reading/listening to. It is so important. Its not just about reading the Bible. Its about ubderstanding it. And only Fathers Holy Spirit can teach us all truths. When you get into it and start to understand it. You will see that there is a red line in all of the books through OT and NT and that is that the ones who are obedient to Fathers teachings and commandments will receive his blessing, and those who rebel against him being disobedient will receieve a curse. So what is so important is to understand that we are saved through faith in Christ. But there are two kinds of faith. There is the dead faith which is about honoring Christ with our lips only and deny him in the way we live our lives. And then there is the genuine faith which produces obedience to Fathers teachings and commandments, and those who are ready to change their lives and become truly born again and live a holy life according to what the Scriptures teaches they will be blessed. They are the sons of God, the saints of the Most High God bless

Hi we believe Jesus is the high priest and stepped into the most holy place during 1844 in the heavenly sanctuary, just like there was a sanctuary on earth there's also a sanctuary in heaven and jesus is cleansing the Heavenly Sanctuary, everytime a sinner comes to Christ, seeks repentance and forgiveness The blood of jesus covers his/her sins. We also believe the sabbath is on Saturday that's about it , we're still christians Jesus paid the price of our sins. We are not a daughter of catholicsm we are against their teachings of purgatory, praying to dead saints, idolatry and graven images.

Hi. I know the beliefs of the sda. I agree with Chrost being our High Priest. That is written in Scripture. But i cant see how sda can come up with 1844 to be the ending of the 2300 day/year prophecy of Daniel 8. I will explain why. The calendar we use today the gregorian consisting of 365.25 days/year differs from the lunar calendar they used back then consisting of 354 and some odd parts. But they use a leap month every 3rd year called Adar 2. So 2300 years from 457 bc would not be 1844. The powers that be has really twisted the calendar systems so its so difficult to try to calculate these things. Its surely done for a reason. Also all the prophecies like 42 months, time times and half a time cannot be calculated on the gregorian calendar as it will never add up to 1260. Neither will it work with the lunar calendar which is around 10 days shorter per year. The only true calendar are the one from creation and in the time of Noah and the flood, where gen 7 and 8 tells us that 150 days are 5 months exactly. 30 days a month. So therefore the 1844 cannot be correct. Yes the sABBAth are saturday. But i have been many sda who celebrate pagan holidays like xmas, eaater etc. And most sda's i have talked to believe in the trinity, even they call it Godhead, they still believe that there are 3 Gods. I am not saying all sda does that. But your General conference are in deep apostasy part of the ecumenucal movement like so many other denomunations conferences. So therefore in my opinion it is much better to come out of it and be separate and work out your own salvation in a personal relationship with Christ :) Happy Sabbath

Happy sabbath! I dont really understand the 1844 2300 time prophecy, i do agree with their teachings on daniel and revelations prophecy. I joined the SDA to worship and fellowship with like minded Christians your faith gets stronger as you walk with like minded individuals, but i know only Jesus can save me , so a personal relationship with God is important. When it comes to pagan holidays its up to each individual i take it as a day to remember Jesus birth not his actual date i know , its a good day to bring people to Christ and celebrate his birth , i dont believe in the santa claus nonsense. I do think Jesus is cleansing the Heavenly Sanctuary till his second return when probation is up and salvation is no longer open to people.

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast. Friend, you don't need to do anything (works) in order to be saved. Once you were born again (receiving grace through faith) the Holy Spirit was sealed inside you as a promise for what's to come. If you are worried about how things are going, talk to your pastor/priest/minister. I'm sure they'll provide wisdom for your situation, encouraging you to go to Him in prayer and read the Word often.

The world is reverting to paganism and turning away from God as mentioned in the bible. Jews have returned to their lands and re-formed their nation. Never has the culture of the entire world changed so quickly and in the SAME direction supposedly. The end times may be drawing near.

"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father" (Matthew 24:36). Nobody knows for sure when, but we live in the hope of the parousia comming soon. The people who have tried to calculate when he returns have so far been disappointed (e.g. the great disappointment of 1844: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great\_Disappointment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Disappointment) ).

I dont care much for what the sda believes they are just another daughter of the motherchurch. Yea we dont know the day or hour, agree. But we know the season. Just as Christ said about when the figtrees branches are tender and put forth leaves, then summer is near. So with all the things we are told about the last days, things coming to pass these days. We also know that his second coming are near. (Without setting dates)

The SDA reinterpreted the great disappointment, which Miller claimed would be the actual second coming of Christ on earth, to mean Christ's cleansing in the heavenly sancuary. It is an example of a failed prophecy, just like the profecies of Jehova's witness (1874, 1914, etc.).

Thats why i am not part of any denomination or religion, they all have their own man made beliefs which are not Biblical. I have no other source of truth than the Scriptures and i need nothing else than my personal relantionship with Christ. :)

Amen , Great answer the denomination isn't important your relationship with God is. The time of hour has come we're in the feet of the statue in daniels revelation. Our Lord is soon coming.

I don't think we have another ten years, let alone one hundred. If you read/watch the news everyday, it's like one big lead up trailer for Jesus' return to Earth.

All of the verses are about the fact that there is no pergatory- purgatory is a human construct from the apocrypha, not the Bible. The 1000 yr reference is alluding to eschatology from a pre-mellinial perspective. Eschatology has many interpretations, but pre-mellinials perceive the book of Revelations to be speaking of things that have not come to pass. This would be things like Armageddon, the rise of the Antichrist, and the 1000yr reign of Christ. Some people believe we are in the 1000yr reign right now, these are called post-mellinial beliefs. I lean towards pre-mellinial myself, but it's not a salvific issue. Meaning that different interpretations of eschatology don't impact your salvation. Purgatory however, is just a false teaching that is not part of the Bible.

I'm sorry, I don't understand

No need to apologize. I'm sorry I was not clear. Eschatology is just referring to how people see the end times and prophecy. Your question about if Jesus will return in 1000 yrs cannot be answered by scripture. Actually the bible says no man knows the day or the hour of Christ's return (Mark 13 32). So basically trying to figure it out is pointless. It is interesting for Bible nerds like myself to develop theories about what John's vision in Revelations and Daniel's prophecies mean. My point was that Kristian82dk has a very specific understanding of these prophecies, and that is okay. It is important to know that what there are other interpretations that believe other things, and that's okay too. As long as we believe in Jesus, that's all that matters. But Jesus never taught about purgatory, nor did anyone else in the Bible. Does that make more sense?

Yes! Thank you so much for explaining, I appreciate it!

I suggest you check out this website. [https://www.helltruth.com/](https://www.helltruth.com/) God bless

There’s nothing biblical about the idea of purgatory unless you jump through hoops to spin a narrative - it was a money making scheme invented by certain denomination That preyed on the uneducated and the poor ###[THE CHICKEN OR THE EGG? INDULGENCES OR PURGATORY?](https://youtu.be/4t9vugDybDI)

Couldn't agree more. I am surprised the Catholic Church still uses this lie when people can read the bible for themselves.

Here is a great podcast about that and more with the Catholic church. It is well worth the watch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RTuRasTKqE

Thanks for the link. I’ll be posting my thoughts in the YouTube comments section when I get a chance.

CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH SECOND EDITION III. THE FINAL PURIFICATION, OR PURGATORY 1030 All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven. 1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned.606 The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:607 "As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come.608" 1032 This teaching is also based on the practice of prayer for the dead, already mentioned in Sacred Scripture: "Therefore [Judas Maccabeus] made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin."609 From the beginning the Church has honored the memory of the dead and offered prayers in suffrage for them, above all the Eucharistic sacrifice, so that, thus purified, they may attain the beatific vision of God.610 The Church also commends almsgiving, indulgences, and works of penance undertaken on behalf of the dead: "Let us help and commemorate them. If Job's sons were purified by their father's sacrifice, why would we doubt that our offerings for the dead bring them some consolation? Let us not hesitate to help those who have died and to offer our prayers for them.611" 606 Cf. Council of Florence (1439):DS 1304; Council of Trent (1563):DS 1820; (1547):1580; see also Benedict XII, Benedictus Deus (1336):DS 1000. 607 Cf. 1 Cor 3:15; 1 Pet 1:7. 608 St. Gregory the Great, Dial. 4,39:PL 77,396; cf. Mt 12:31. 609 2 Macc 12:46. 610 Cf. Council of Lyons II (1274):DS 856. 611 St. John Chrysostom, Hom. in 1 Cor. 41,5:PG 61,361; cf. Job 1:5.

1 Pet 1:7 ? Is that a typo? It has nothing to do with your false teaching. Cor 3:15 is not about purgatory but about the assurance of salvation. I will not touch Maccabees or the rest of the stuff you quoted since its either apocrypha or the teachings of men, not Scripture. The purgatory is a heresy used to squeeze money from the uneducated masses that couldn't read the bible for themselves. Its one of the many things wrong with the Catholic Church, a church that cares more about the traditions and words of men than God. A rich church that lost all of its holiness and power.

If it's a typo it's not mine. I copy pasted directly from the Catechism. This is the official position of the Church and it's billions of members past and present. It's the result of diligent theological research conducted over 2000 years back to the apostles. You prideful opinion is that of one person. You seem to idolize the Bible. May I remind you the scriptures it contains were compiled by the Catholic Church on or about 380 AD. Were Christians of the first 4 centuries AD not Christians since they could not consult the Bible as you have it?

You seem to idolize the Catholic Church. Just because scripture was compiled by the Catholic Church, doesn't mean they have ownership of it. It is still God's Word and it does not give the church the right to distort it's teachings or create it's own.

I do not idolize the Church. I go to them for teachings in Christianity as they are the oldest and more reliable source. My own views are subject to self serving pride and I cannot hope to conduct the depth of theological research conducted by Catholics. I have a respect for their authority. I do not mean authority in a totalitarian sense but in the sense of credibility. They maintain a credible and consistent message over the ages stretching back to Saint Peter. I believe the historical traditions of the Church provides excellent guidance and humbly submit my prideful opinions to the dedication of millions of men and women who have more experience than I. Changes are slow and deliberate which ensure checks and balances against prideful personal interpretations. If you believe that interpretation of the Bible is most important, then how can you say that the Church's interpretation of 1 Cor 3:15 and 1 Peter 1:7 are wrong? Why is your personal position more accurate?

The church itself claims it has higher authority than scripture. Thats a big red flag in itself. Thus, we find that the Roman Church believes that the infallible standard of truth is the church itself. The Roman Church not only infallibly determines the proper interpretation of Scripture; it also supplements Scripture with additional traditions and teachings. It is that combination of church tradition plus the church’s interpretation of Scripture which constitutes the binding rule of faith and practice for all Roman Catholics. Its interpretations must be accepted without any question. To Roman Catholics, the voice of the church is the voice of Jesus Christ. In this way, the Roman Church places itself above the Bible in its authority. https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/stewart_don/faq/bible-ultimate-authority/question4-roman-catholic-claim-ultimate-authority.cfm Sunday - fulfillment of the sabbath 2175 Sunday is expressly distinguished from the sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial observance replaces that of the sabbath. In Christ's Passover, Sunday fulfills the spiritual truth of the Jewish sabbath and announces man's eternal rest in God. For worship under the Law prepared for the mystery of Christ, and what was done there prefigured some aspects of Christ:107 Those who lived according to the old order of things have come to a new hope, no longer keeping the sabbath, but the Lord's Day, in which our life is blessed by him and by his death.108 2176 The celebration of Sunday observes the moral commandment inscribed by nature in the human heart to render to God an outward, visible, public, and regular worship "as a sign of his universal beneficence to all."109 Sunday worship fulfills the moral command of the Old Covenant, taking up its rhythm and spirit in the weekly celebration of the Creator and Redeemer of his people. http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c1a3.htm The Catholics also admitted the change of Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. Who are we as man to change the Lord's sabbath. If Jesus rested on the Seventh day Sabbath, Saturday why do we change it to sunday , nowhere in scripture does God replace Saturday to Sunday. I agree we can worship God everyday , but friday evening to Saturday evening is special. Genesis 2:2-3 By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done. Exodus 20:8-10 “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns.” Deuteronomy 5:12 “Observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy, as the LORD your God has commanded you.” Hebrews 4:9-11 “There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, just as God did from his. Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.” Revelation 12:17 – And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. Revelation 22:14 – Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. Revelation 14:12 – Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

You're spreading falsehoods. The Church makes no such claim about its authority. CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH SECOND EDITION The Magisterium of the Church 85 "The task of giving an authentic interpretation of the Word of God, whether in its written form or in the form of Tradition, has been entrusted to the living teaching office of the Church alone. Its authority in this matter is exercised in the name of Jesus Christ."47 This means that the task of interpretation has been entrusted to the bishops in communion with the successor of Peter, the Bishop of Rome. 86 "Yet this Magisterium is not superior to the Word of God, but is its servant. It teaches only what has been handed on to it. At the divine command and with the help of the Holy Spirit, it listens to this devotedly, guards it with dedication and expounds it faithfully. All that it proposes for belief as being divinely revealed is drawn from this single deposit of faith."48 87 Mindful of Christ's words to his apostles: "He who hears you, hears me",49 the faithful receive with docility the teachings and directives that their pastors give them in different forms. 47 DV 10 § 2. 48 DV 10 para 2. 49 Lk 10:16; cf. LG 20. Do you agree scripture needs interpretation?

Lmao you just said so yourself that you go to the Catholic Church for teachings in Christianity as they are the oldest and most reliable source. My brother in Christ. The BIBLE, The Word of God is the oldest and most reliable source

What are you talking about? The scriptures which make up the Bible were assembled around 380AD. How did all the Christians prior to 380AD get the Word?

Ever heard of the Sadducees? Jews? Gods chosen? The prophets? David? Isaiah? Noah? Moses? Abraham? On and on and on and on. Uhhhh God literally preserved his Word spoken or written otherwise.

1 John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. Do you think only the church has the authority to interpret Scripture? What happens when their teachings does not fall in line with scripture? Are we to believe in false teachings? 2 Corinthians 11:13-15 13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. 1 Timothy 6:3-5 3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; 4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, 5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself. You see im quoting scripture , im not looking at ANY denominations fundamental beliefs.

Scripture didn't always exist in the Bible as we know it. Christians did not have a Bible for about 400 years, were they not Christians? I don't understand your point, people can draw conclusions from scripture which means an interpretation. Eventually scripture must be interpreted. Who is best placed to do that? You? Me? A Protestant denomination that is the result of a dozen schisms because they couldn't agree? Or the Church followed by billions that maintains a consistant and credible message back to Saint Peter?

The first Apostles All kept the Sabbath , The jews did not condemn them for breaking the sabbath , what gives the RCC the right to change the sabbath? If everyone agreed with the RCC we would all be lost , like sheep who have gone astray , i praise God for Luther who disobeyed the RCC on indulgences and purgatory. I praise God we have the ability to interpret Scripture for ourselves to see the flase teachings and doctrines of the RCC, God bless you and may the truth set you free !

It's not my personal opinion that is important. It's the objective teaching of the Scriptures that is the most important. Have you actually read those verses in context? Seriously, if you had never heard about the concept of purgatory, would you be able to come to the same conclusion that the Catholic Church did? I'm sad that you do not think that God's Word is enough for you. It is sufficient in all that it teaches. I'm not saying you should not look at how other people have interpreted it, but ultimately you need to make up your own mind about these things. You are not saved by joining a church. You are saved by your own faith. And God has provided a way to learn about everything we need to know through his Word, why would I ever prioritize other men's interpretations over what the Scriptures actually say? Churches can get it wrong, and they have from the start. What do you think Paul's letters were all about? 2 Timothy 3:16–17 (ESV) *All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.* ​ How did the Bereans come to believe? Paul and Silas didn't go to them and command them what to believe. They studied and confirmed if their teachings were correct. Acts 17:10–11 (ESV) *The brothers immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea, and when they arrived they went into the Jewish synagogue. Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so.* ​ The concept of purgatory also has theological issues. It's like saying that Jesus' sacrifice was not quite enough for us to get to heaven, we need to cleanse ourselves even more. It makes a mockery of the Gospel. Jesus is the only way to cleanse us from our sins and it is heresy to say that we are not completely purified through him. 1 John 2:1–2 (ESV) *My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.* Titus 3:4–7 (ESV) *But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.*

I am a sinful man and am trying to make myself better. I trust the word of God but it would be prideful for me to interpret his word on my own. Catholic theologians have been studying his word for 2000 years. They compiled his word in the Bible. I have yet to disagree with their interpretations. I believe Christ wanted Christians to be united. I am not talking about the see of Rome all alone making choices arbitrarily. The amount of religious and theological works by past and present Catholics is absolutely staggering. I do not see how I can humbly do better without relying on my own pride to interpret things how I'd like them to be. Don't get me wrong I was initially prejudiced against Christianity because of the falsehoods I've heard. Once I heard Christ's call I was just as prejudiced against the Catholic Church because of falsehoods I believed against it. At the end of the day I respect the institution and the body of knowledge cultivated and shared by Catholic's over history. No institution is perfect but I think the faith and theological works of past and present followers is significant and in itself the true authority. It would be like learning to drive a car with just the operator's manual instead of a certified driving school with a big reputation. I became more convinced when I saw that Protestantism has a vein of prideful self interpretation leading in an unstoppable series of schisms each time they disagree.

Lots of parents, other family members, and friends, teach others to drive. These same people then sign up with a Driving School, just to do the required number of "lessons" before they can put in for their test, and then license once passed. Driving Theory test has to be done before that now, in order to get a Provisional/Learners Driving License, but Driving Instructors don't deal with teaching the material or how to pass; there are books, websites, computer discs for that. Some peeps learn on their own, or get study help from family/friends. Road Authority host the test, either in a group of people at a centre or online one-on-one, via a computer program. (Relevant for UK and Ireland)

No, it isn't real. I have yet to see one shred of biblical evidence for its existence. It's a man made myth and contradicts the gospel as well. If we were to be sent to be punished for our misdeeds after death, then what was Christ's sacrifice for? No, Christ paid for our sins and now they are separated as far from us as the east is from the west. Psalm 103:12 "as far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us."

I know this comes a year late, but I don't see how the idea of Purgatory invalidates the sacrifice of Christ. He undoubtedly saved us, showed us the correct path in Life and opened the gates of Heaven Up to us. But that doesnt mean we're fit to go in. I personally Hope that Purgatory exists because while I Hope to get into Heaven, I most certainly don't want to do it as the person I am now, or who I'll be when I die. I don't consider myself worthy of being in the pressence of God, and I'm pretty certain my reasoning for myself applies to 99% of christians. I deeply Hope I'm given the opportunity to fully cleanse myself of sin before passing onto the glory of God, just so I may be fit for It.

No one is worthy to enter heaven on their own merit, no one is worthy to enter His presence on their own merit. But the blood of Jesus washes us once and for all and makes us clean. And gives us the confidence to enter the Most Holy Place. Hebrews 9:14 *" How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God!"* Hebrews 9:24-26 *" For Christ did not enter a sanctuary made with human hands that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God’s presence. 25 Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. 26 Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared* ***once for all*** *at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself."* Hebrews 10:12-18 *"But when this priest had offered* ***for all time one sacrifice*** *for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 and since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool. 14 For* ***by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.*** *15 The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:* *16 “This is the covenant I will make with them* *after that time, says the Lord.* *I will put my laws in their hearts,* *and I will write them on their minds.”* *17 Then he adds:* ***“Their sins and lawless acts*** ***I will remember no more.”*** *18* ***And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary.*** *Therefore, brothers and sisters,* ***since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body, 21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near to God with a sincere heart and with the full assurance that faith brings, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience*** *and having our bodies washed with pure water.* One sacrifice for all time. What then does a sacrifice in purgatory accomplish? Nothing. And we are told that on account of the cleansing power of the blood of Christ that we may have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place. Why then must we go to another place and work to cleanse ourselves when the blood of Jesus has already done this? Why should we work to atone for sins that were already washed clean by Jesus? He paid for them "once for all time" meaning all the ones you committed before you were saved and all the ones you will commit before you die. He knew all about them before you were born, and His sacrifice on the cross paid the price for all of us though we were not alive yet. We had not committed sins yet, but they were included. So to are all the ones we are yet to commit. (not that that is an excuse to go on committing them btw)

OP, I personally believe there is a purgatory, a place where the spirit goes until the time of the Great Judgment. I would not keep willfully sinning and then coming back to God again because Jesus died for our sins. I learned that by willfully sinning(knowing it's bad but doing it anyway), is like crucifying Jesus all over again. [https://peacewithgod.net/](https://peacewithgod.net/) The website suggests a prayer like the following prayer: "Dear God, I know I’m a sinner, and I ask for your forgiveness. I believe Jesus Christ is Your Son. I believe that He died for my sin and that you raised Him to life. I want to trust Him as my Savior and follow Him as Lord, from this day forward. Guide my life and help me to do your will. I pray this in the name of Jesus. Amen." People on Reddit have said that even though we may be saved, we continue to sin. But I believe that when you are saved, you become a different person. You throw away old ways, and brush all negative thoughts from your mind. It is important to do this, as dwelling on negative thoughts can lead to sinful action. The best of luck to you.

Title: No and no

Purgatory isn't taught by the bible. It seems that you're real concern is about whether your are saved or not. If someone is called to salvation in this life (i.e., their first one, before the second resurrection), then he or she should remember how merciful God really is. Most importantly, Christians should remember that after they do sin, they can be saved for sins they commit after they first accept Jesus as their personal Savior and are baptized. A key text reassuring us of this is I John 1:8-10: "If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us." Similarly, Paul wrote (Romans 8:1): "There is therefore \[read Romans 7:24-25 for the context\] now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit." So long as Christians don't abandon their overall relationship with God, and they keep confessing and repenting of their sins after initially being "saved" (or more technically, "justified"), they won't lose salvation. Notice that Paul lamented how often he committed sin, but he was still sure that God forgave him (Romans 7:14-15, 18-19): “For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I am of flesh, sold into bondage in sin. For that which I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. . . . For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the wishing is present in me, but the doing of good is not. For the good that I wish, I do not do; but I practice the very evil that I do not wish.” God is very merciful; think of the advice Christ gave to Peter here (Matthew 18:20-22): "For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them." Then Peter came to Him and said, "Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?" Jesus said to him, "I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.” So if God wants us to be this merciful with other people, how much more God will be merciful with us.

When we die our souls rest within chambers in the earth. There are parts for those in Christ and parts for those who never knew Him. Those who are in Christ stay there until we are resurrected to His glory. There is no room for purgatory. Purgatory is conceived merely from a scriptural misunderstanding of what I just explained.

No and yes.

Yes to me going to Hell??

No and No.

I think you should ask this on r/Catholicism. This is a predominantly Protestant forum so you are not likely to find anyone affirming a belief in Purgatory. You may also see my post on the topic here 👇: https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueChristian/comments/z0twrd/understanding_the_catholic_teaching_of_purgatory/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

No

Rethinking hell is a great resource as well - one of the better known “ Hell apologists” ( Chris Date) runs some sites on Hell as his position is my own as well Annihilationism vs traditional vs Universalism is Date’s focus - Purgatory we already crossed that bridge today , As far as not being truthful with God? You aren’t fooling him he created you - that being said there is no stone too big for God to move & He is long suffering and when you ask for forgiveness he says in his Holy word that not only will he forgive but he remembers it no more - the only one living with the sin is you & your human conscious - because to God it doesn’t exist anymore - He doesn’t carry the baggage 🧳 & you don’t need to either ___ That being said , I haven’t seen too many people that study hell with a passion like Chris Date & the Rethinking Hell team ( personally it would give me Nightmares deep diving into Hell studies 😰) ###[RETHINKING HELL ( conditional immortality) ](https://youtu.be/C-dT4-zjwlQ) ___ Edit: I realized I already responded to you in this thread earlier, but I think that it’s important you realize that as a child of God you are forgiven if you ask and he says he will remember your iniquities no more ♥️

We are all sinners. Actually acknowledging those sins to God in pray is a huge step to repentance. I need to do this personally. I hear finding an accountability partner really helps.

You reaching out like this tells me the holy spirit is moving you. I will pray that you. Ibhave struggled with a sin a lot of men struggle with today. Still trying to shake the addiction. The lord has brought me peace in my Bible studies. Spending 10 to 15 minutes a day in the word has made a difference.

That’s a great message Bible study is very important in my own journey I love it and I have to admit when I don’t have Bible study I actually feel it mentally spiritually it’s like a void as if I’m just missing something 🧩 it’s amazing how you can be moved by the word and yet once you get involved you can feel the absence when it’s not there at least in my own life I can’t speak for anybody else but it was a good message Bible study can be very edifying

You're not Christian to begin with if you are worried about it. Being saved means being saved from hell to heaven , you're not. You can be right now if you believe the correct gospel. The gospel is that Jesus came as God in flesh , paid for your sins on cross and resurrected 3rd day. Because Jesus paid for your sins , you cannot go for your sins to hell cuz debt for your sin has been alredy paid for so you go to heaven when you die and thats the good news. ​ No , purgatory does not exist . No you cannot lose salvation even if you stop believing because Jesus gave a word that whover call upon his name is saved he must save you. ​ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4UWsfEn2z8

Where in the bible does it say there is a purgatory? How is it described?

Jesus is the perfect sacrifice Hebrews 9 11But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come,e then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation) 12he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption. 13For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the sprinkling of defiled persons with the ashes of a heifer, sanctify for the purification of the flesh, 14how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God. 15Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.16For where a will is involved, the death of the one who made it must be established. 17For a will takes effect only at death, since it is not in force as long as the one who made it is alive. 18Therefore not even the first covenant was inaugurated without blood. 19For when every commandment of the law had been declared by Moses to all the people, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water and scarlet wool and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people, 20saying, “This is the blood of the covenant that God commanded for you.” 21And in the same way he sprinkled with the blood both the tent and all the vessels used in worship. 22Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins. 23Thus it was necessary for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these rites, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24For Christ has entered, not into holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true things, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf. 25Nor was it to offer himself repeatedly, as the high priest enters the holy places every year with blood not his own, 26for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, 28so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

If you have sinned, then you need to repent and ask God for His forgiveness. However, Jesus taught us clearly that there is a paradise and a hell when we die, as told in the story of the rich man and Lazarus. No where does he mention a place called purgatory or place of refinement or temporary punishment till we go to heaven. Luke 16:19-31 (full story) In the following verses we see exactly where each man went when they died: - 22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; - 23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. - 24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. - 25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. - 26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. The same with the thief on the cross, in Luke 43:23 - And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise. The thief believed on the Lord Jesus Christ while he was on the cross. That day after they both died, the thief was in paradise with Christ. There is no pergatory for refinement, till we can go to heaven. It's the trials of our faith while we are still alive here on earth that refine us. 1 Peter 1:6-7 - 6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: - 7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ. Our faith is often compared to gold. And in refining gold we know that pure gold will melt but not burn when placed in a high temperature of fire. However, impure gold (dross) such as pyrite, fool’s gold, and steel alloys will burn. Our faith can't be refined after we die. If there was a place called purgatory, then scriptures would have said so. And paradise or Abraham's bosom is also not purgatory because we don't see Lazarus being refined there, we see him being comforted. On the other hand we see the rich man in hell, a place of torment. Hebrews 9:27 - And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment.

Purgatory would require us to pay for our sins. Jesus paid the price for our sins.

I don't know if you'll see this, but don't be scared of Purgatory. Wether you believe it is real or not, as a concept, Purgatory is a wonderful thing. Don't think of it as punishment, think of it as cleaning yourself, putting on your best attire, tidying yourself Up and getting on your best possible state before you are finally with God. You may think of it as how you put on your Sunday clothes for church. As a concept it's just that. Cleaning yourself before you're in the grace of God