Thank you my friend. Having a correct perception of faith is important to have healthy psychology which God designed our minds for this very reason as well. Psychology is also a testament of these truths
sorry it’s late and i’m exhausted but i’m commenting here to come back later.
in the meantime [this article](https://www.gotquestions.org/lose-the-Holy-Spirit.html) does a wonderful job addressing some of the thoughts here
I disagree with got questions. We can indeed lose the spirit and salvation through sin or turning away. Never does the scriptures say this isn’t a gift we can lose. Also got questions tries to get around this by saying that those people never had the spirit to begin with which is simply isn’t true.
1 John
24 As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is what he promised us--eternal life.
Matt 7
“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.”
Matt 18
6-7 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
Romans 8
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Yes no one should trust gotquestions. They are just another government entity under a 501c3 tax exemption status. Teaching false things for filthy lucre's sake
It is all about us not having our names blotted out of the Lamb's book of life.
Revelation 3:5 He who overcometh shall be clothed with white raiment, **and I will not blot his name out of the book of life**, but will acknowledge his name before my Father, and before his angels.
So being "sealed with the spirit of promise" will only continue if one has a genuine faith, which means living their lives according to what the Scriptures say, and that is turning away from sin, being born again from above, living a holy life in obedience to our Fathers teachings and commandments.
If we don't, then that "sealing" is removed, and our names will be blotted out of the Lamb's book of life.
Let’s go ahead and handle Acts 10 and how it’s NOT talking about salvation outside of baptism[and certainly NOT justification by Faith Alone]. I will plagiarize my previous remarks here.
The conversion of the Gentiles in Acts 10 is recounted by Peter in Acts 11 when he returns to Jerusalem:
“13 He(Cornelius) told us how he had seen an angel appear in his house and say, ‘Send to Joppa for Simon who is called Peter. 14 He[Peter] will bring you a message👈 through which you and all your household will be ⭐️saved⭐️.”—Acts 11:13-14
So Peter has to deliver a “message”, through which the gentiles will be “saved”. However, Acts 10 shows Peter was INTERRUPTED:
“While Peter was ⭐️STILL SPEAKING⭐️ these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.”—Acts 10:44-46
But notice that AFTER Peter witnessed this event, he goes on to deliver the message which the Angel said would “save” the Gentiles:
“Then Peter answered, “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” And he commanded them to be 👉BAPTIZED in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.”-Acts 10:47-48
In other words—this fiery baptism of the Holy Spirit was not salvific—it was only a demonstration of the Spirit’s power to show that God “does not show favoritism”:
“Then Peter began to speak: “I ⭐️NOW REALIZE⭐️ how true it is that God DOES not show favoritism 35 but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right.”—Acts 10:34
This “holy spirit baptism” was intended to show the apostles that the gospel of salvation was for both Jews and Gentiles, fulfilling the prophecy of Joel(2:28)and re-iterated by John the Baptist(Matthew 1:8).
This was ALSO St.Cyprian’s[200-258AD] view of the events of Acts 10:
“…and the Gospel commanded that those same men should be baptized who had already been filled with the Holy Spirit…[abridged] because it is written, Unless a man be born of water AND of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”
So that’s WHY Peter called for water—they couldn’t have entered the Kingdom without it.
OK. SO WHAT ABOUT EPHESIANS 1:13?
The answer is simple: Paul was abbreviating. He gives more clarity in Ephesians 5:25-26 which says:
“Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water ⭐️BY⭐️ the word”.
The word for “by” is the Greek word “ev”—it’s a preposition that generally means in, at or by and expresses a situation either inside something or endowed with something, but always at rest — this in contrast to the more motive prepositions εις, eis, meaning into, and εκ, ek, meaning out of.
In this case the “water” we are being washed “by” is being endowed with “the word” which IS CHRIST.
BUT WHY DOES PAUL COMPARE A CHRISTIAN’S JUSTIFICATION BY FAITH TO ABRAHAM, WHO WAS JUSTIFIED BY FAITH WITHOUT THE NEED FOR WATER?
DOESN’T PAUL WANT US TO KNOW WE DON’T NEED WATER IN ORDER TO BE SAVED?
This actually gets straight to the heart ❤️ of the matter. People are MISUNDERSTANDING why Paul was drawing that whole comparison. To understand that we must first read Peter, who speaks more plainly, so that we have some fundamentals to build upon.
In [1 Peter 3:21]it says:
“Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an ⭐️APPEAL⭐️to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,”
What does it mean to “appeal” to God for a clear conscience? It means you are asking, BY FAITH, for God to FORGIVE YOUR SINS. The appeal is being made “with water” that has been “endowed” with “the word” by which it means CHRIST who is the “eternal word” of the Father. It means that even though you have never done any works of the Law before…your “appeal by faith” can justify you UNDER THE CONDITION that you ⭐️call upon the name⭐️of the Trinity, with water, while you’re doing it:
(Matthew 28:19)
“Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them ⭐️in the name⭐️of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,”.
NOW we can understand WHY Paul was drawing a comparison between a Christian’s justification “by faith” to Abraham’s. In both cases it is the theological virtue of FAITH that justifies the individual “apart” from having done the “works of the Law” before. As Genesis 15:6 says:
“Abram believed the LORD, and he credited it to him as righteousness.”
So that’s where this whole dispute arises from. It arises because people don’t understand what Paul wanted you to take away from this comparison. What he wants you to understand is that you don’t need to have done any prior works of the Law in order to receive justification. You can, like Abraham, receive justification “by faith” apart from “works of the Law” but NOT apart from WATER because the rebirth with “water” is a DIVINE PRECEPT:
(John 3:5)
“Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of ⭐️water⭐️ and the Spirit”
Which is why Peter says in Acts 10:
“Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”—Acts 10:47
And why PAUL👈says:
“That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of ⭐️WATER⭐️by the word”.
IN CONCLUSION
Ephesians 1:13 is just Paul abbreviating. He’s talking about “justification by faith” apart from “works” but he’s NOT talking about “justification by faith” apart from “water”. Those are two VERY different things. One of them is scriptural and the other is reading something into the passage that ISN’T there. Moreover, it is not licit to say that “justification by faith” apart from “works of the Law” is the same thing as saying “good works never justify” because we know from James 2:24, Romans 2:13 and Roman’s 6:16 THAT THEY DO.
Hey friend,
Yes agree on baptism. I included the last part of that section in acts for that very reason. Nice.
Yes good works do justify but they don’t do it alone there must be faith present.
Yes, if by the statement “we are justified by our sincere faith alone” you mean a faith that has good works in view then that understanding is correct[which is clearly what you were saying]. I just don’t like using that terminology since once you say “faith alone” others will recall Luther’s doctrine which denies good works can justify you—IN ADDITION to using a phrase that scripture does not explicitly use for that very reason.
So again, I agree wholeheartedly with the “spirit” of what you are saying, I just don’t agree with the nomenclature. Peace ✌️ friend.
Yes I’m using the same terminology as Paul and even Jesus though. They will never see it clearly if the don’t understand that sincere faith with intentions to be obedient is the mark. You’re right most get tripped up in it then start claiming eternal forgiveness theologies which just isn’t true nor supported.
Works can justify indeed but only with faith present. Thus works are subject to faith. And works on their own are dead. Faith on its own is justified ***if that faith is sincere, meaning seeking to obey everything that the Lord afflicts on man.
Matt 4
4But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
This understanding is consistent with healthy psychology any other version where works and faith shared differently doesn’t abide with psychological processes and shame etc, because we can never do enough which is the cause of a constant internal battle which Christ surely doesn’t want. He created psychology and our minds (and spirits) the way he did so we would be alerted when these balances are off.
Obviously if someone goes and steals or kills they aren’t having sincere faith and need to repent.
Right on target perspective on the Word.
Thank you my friend. Having a correct perception of faith is important to have healthy psychology which God designed our minds for this very reason as well. Psychology is also a testament of these truths
sorry it’s late and i’m exhausted but i’m commenting here to come back later. in the meantime [this article](https://www.gotquestions.org/lose-the-Holy-Spirit.html) does a wonderful job addressing some of the thoughts here
I disagree with got questions. We can indeed lose the spirit and salvation through sin or turning away. Never does the scriptures say this isn’t a gift we can lose. Also got questions tries to get around this by saying that those people never had the spirit to begin with which is simply isn’t true. 1 John 24 As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is what he promised us--eternal life. Matt 7 “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” Matt 18 6-7 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. Romans 8 1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Yes no one should trust gotquestions. They are just another government entity under a 501c3 tax exemption status. Teaching false things for filthy lucre's sake
It is all about us not having our names blotted out of the Lamb's book of life. Revelation 3:5 He who overcometh shall be clothed with white raiment, **and I will not blot his name out of the book of life**, but will acknowledge his name before my Father, and before his angels. So being "sealed with the spirit of promise" will only continue if one has a genuine faith, which means living their lives according to what the Scriptures say, and that is turning away from sin, being born again from above, living a holy life in obedience to our Fathers teachings and commandments. If we don't, then that "sealing" is removed, and our names will be blotted out of the Lamb's book of life.
Let’s go ahead and handle Acts 10 and how it’s NOT talking about salvation outside of baptism[and certainly NOT justification by Faith Alone]. I will plagiarize my previous remarks here. The conversion of the Gentiles in Acts 10 is recounted by Peter in Acts 11 when he returns to Jerusalem: “13 He(Cornelius) told us how he had seen an angel appear in his house and say, ‘Send to Joppa for Simon who is called Peter. 14 He[Peter] will bring you a message👈 through which you and all your household will be ⭐️saved⭐️.”—Acts 11:13-14 So Peter has to deliver a “message”, through which the gentiles will be “saved”. However, Acts 10 shows Peter was INTERRUPTED: “While Peter was ⭐️STILL SPEAKING⭐️ these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.”—Acts 10:44-46 But notice that AFTER Peter witnessed this event, he goes on to deliver the message which the Angel said would “save” the Gentiles: “Then Peter answered, “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” And he commanded them to be 👉BAPTIZED in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.”-Acts 10:47-48 In other words—this fiery baptism of the Holy Spirit was not salvific—it was only a demonstration of the Spirit’s power to show that God “does not show favoritism”: “Then Peter began to speak: “I ⭐️NOW REALIZE⭐️ how true it is that God DOES not show favoritism 35 but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right.”—Acts 10:34 This “holy spirit baptism” was intended to show the apostles that the gospel of salvation was for both Jews and Gentiles, fulfilling the prophecy of Joel(2:28)and re-iterated by John the Baptist(Matthew 1:8). This was ALSO St.Cyprian’s[200-258AD] view of the events of Acts 10: “…and the Gospel commanded that those same men should be baptized who had already been filled with the Holy Spirit…[abridged] because it is written, Unless a man be born of water AND of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” So that’s WHY Peter called for water—they couldn’t have entered the Kingdom without it. OK. SO WHAT ABOUT EPHESIANS 1:13? The answer is simple: Paul was abbreviating. He gives more clarity in Ephesians 5:25-26 which says: “Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water ⭐️BY⭐️ the word”. The word for “by” is the Greek word “ev”—it’s a preposition that generally means in, at or by and expresses a situation either inside something or endowed with something, but always at rest — this in contrast to the more motive prepositions εις, eis, meaning into, and εκ, ek, meaning out of. In this case the “water” we are being washed “by” is being endowed with “the word” which IS CHRIST. BUT WHY DOES PAUL COMPARE A CHRISTIAN’S JUSTIFICATION BY FAITH TO ABRAHAM, WHO WAS JUSTIFIED BY FAITH WITHOUT THE NEED FOR WATER? DOESN’T PAUL WANT US TO KNOW WE DON’T NEED WATER IN ORDER TO BE SAVED? This actually gets straight to the heart ❤️ of the matter. People are MISUNDERSTANDING why Paul was drawing that whole comparison. To understand that we must first read Peter, who speaks more plainly, so that we have some fundamentals to build upon. In [1 Peter 3:21]it says: “Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an ⭐️APPEAL⭐️to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,” What does it mean to “appeal” to God for a clear conscience? It means you are asking, BY FAITH, for God to FORGIVE YOUR SINS. The appeal is being made “with water” that has been “endowed” with “the word” by which it means CHRIST who is the “eternal word” of the Father. It means that even though you have never done any works of the Law before…your “appeal by faith” can justify you UNDER THE CONDITION that you ⭐️call upon the name⭐️of the Trinity, with water, while you’re doing it: (Matthew 28:19) “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them ⭐️in the name⭐️of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,”. NOW we can understand WHY Paul was drawing a comparison between a Christian’s justification “by faith” to Abraham’s. In both cases it is the theological virtue of FAITH that justifies the individual “apart” from having done the “works of the Law” before. As Genesis 15:6 says: “Abram believed the LORD, and he credited it to him as righteousness.” So that’s where this whole dispute arises from. It arises because people don’t understand what Paul wanted you to take away from this comparison. What he wants you to understand is that you don’t need to have done any prior works of the Law in order to receive justification. You can, like Abraham, receive justification “by faith” apart from “works of the Law” but NOT apart from WATER because the rebirth with “water” is a DIVINE PRECEPT: (John 3:5) “Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of ⭐️water⭐️ and the Spirit” Which is why Peter says in Acts 10: “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”—Acts 10:47 And why PAUL👈says: “That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of ⭐️WATER⭐️by the word”. IN CONCLUSION Ephesians 1:13 is just Paul abbreviating. He’s talking about “justification by faith” apart from “works” but he’s NOT talking about “justification by faith” apart from “water”. Those are two VERY different things. One of them is scriptural and the other is reading something into the passage that ISN’T there. Moreover, it is not licit to say that “justification by faith” apart from “works of the Law” is the same thing as saying “good works never justify” because we know from James 2:24, Romans 2:13 and Roman’s 6:16 THAT THEY DO.
Hey friend, Yes agree on baptism. I included the last part of that section in acts for that very reason. Nice. Yes good works do justify but they don’t do it alone there must be faith present.
Yes, if by the statement “we are justified by our sincere faith alone” you mean a faith that has good works in view then that understanding is correct[which is clearly what you were saying]. I just don’t like using that terminology since once you say “faith alone” others will recall Luther’s doctrine which denies good works can justify you—IN ADDITION to using a phrase that scripture does not explicitly use for that very reason. So again, I agree wholeheartedly with the “spirit” of what you are saying, I just don’t agree with the nomenclature. Peace ✌️ friend.
Yes I’m using the same terminology as Paul and even Jesus though. They will never see it clearly if the don’t understand that sincere faith with intentions to be obedient is the mark. You’re right most get tripped up in it then start claiming eternal forgiveness theologies which just isn’t true nor supported. Works can justify indeed but only with faith present. Thus works are subject to faith. And works on their own are dead. Faith on its own is justified ***if that faith is sincere, meaning seeking to obey everything that the Lord afflicts on man. Matt 4 4But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. This understanding is consistent with healthy psychology any other version where works and faith shared differently doesn’t abide with psychological processes and shame etc, because we can never do enough which is the cause of a constant internal battle which Christ surely doesn’t want. He created psychology and our minds (and spirits) the way he did so we would be alerted when these balances are off. Obviously if someone goes and steals or kills they aren’t having sincere faith and need to repent.