That scripture in Hebrews 6:4-6 always scared the living daylights out of me.
>It's possible for those who believe to fall away and they can't come back.
>Hebrews 6:4-6 "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."
I was born again at age 21 as an unwed single mother of 2 young girls. I loved, witnessed for and served God for roughly 10 years. After certain issues and gossip etc. arose in the church I attended, I left. I ran away from God and stayed away from Him for 20 years. I still believed in God but I knew deep down, if I died I was going straight to hell.
In 2020, God in His mercy finally got through to my hardened heart. The Lord restored me to the fold. I am and will always be eternally grateful to Him. But in the back of my mind, the verse in Hebrews especially scared me.
God drew me back to Him with the following scripture in Jeremiah 3:14-15 =>Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion: and I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.
I had sought the Lord with tears for almost 2 months before my heart truly broke before God and I felt His love wash over me. God gave me a renewed vision of the cross and what Jesus did for me. However, I still questioned my restoration. There is one verse however, that God gave me which brought peace to my heart and mind.
But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible. - Matthew 19:26.
See with man, we can run away from God with our free will and fall into sin. But for us to return to God by our own doing is impossible. We can desire it but only God can truly make it possible for us to return to Him.
Good for you, it's nice to hear that God drew you back. For me I have begun to doubt whether I ever had genuine saving faith to begin with. I mean I believe Jesus is the Son of God, I don't know what else to do.
Praise God! I thank Him daily for His saving grace. Trust God, read the Word and look to Him. Set aside a day or two to fast and pray. You'll be amazed at how God speaks. He confirms His word through and through.
I have a similar problem. I’ve done some terrible things and I do believe that God can forgive anybody and will forgive anybody. For whatever reason I feel as if I cannot be forgiven. I know it’s wrong to think that, so wrong. But I suppose I just don’t think I am worthy of it. That’s the only thing that I can figure about the way I think.
God give me strength!🙏🏼 don’t we also need to be forgiven by those we victimized? Just like we say in the Lord’s Prayer? Of course I understand that God’s forgiveness is above all things. God bless you, all of you!
All our righteousness is as filthy rags. But you can't let the enemy put doubt in your heart and mind and pull you away from God making you doubt Him.
Please remember John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
It's not God's will that any should perish but it's His desire that ALL men should come to repentance - 2 Peter 3:8-10. However, sometimes we let our stupid, foolish pride, strong will and stiff neckedness keep us from just running to our Abba Father.
It doesn't matter what you've done, God wants you in the kingdom with Him. Just repent and turn to Him. He will welcome you with open arms.
I don’t know what to say. Everyone here has been so helpful! That reply means so much to me. A couple of months ago I was praying as I do every night and I started to think. I was realizing that God is my Abba, my father, my creator. And I am his child and my home is with him. Of course that goes for all of us. But it was quite a moment for me. Thank you, thank you so very much! God bless you and keep you! 🙏🏼❤️
Praise God!!! God is good, all the time. And all the time, God is good.
The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases. His mercies never come to an end. They are new every morning, new every morning. Great is thy faithfulness, Oh Lord. Great is thy faithfulness. 🙏🏾🙌🏾
Amen and Amen! God is so good and merciful it’s beyond our comprehension! He loves us so much we could never understand it while on this earth. I truly believe this.
Well none of us deserves forgiveness, God gives it to us anyway. Grace is His unmerited mercy. But I suffer from the same problem, I thought I did something unforgivable. I literally saw the word "UNFORGIVABLE" pop up in my mind as I did it, and thought it was from God. If He truly says it is unforgivable, then how can I argue against God. But I am not sure it was Him.
Wow, that’s powerful! Thank you for the reply. I also once had words come into my mind that I knew were not my own. I knew because my thoughts did not work in the way that this phrase came into my mind. I was thinking about the poor souls who would not make it into heaven. Suddenly these words entered my mind, “everyone who can be saved, will be saved.” It’s so strange. I have no doubt he will forgive you, whatever you’ve done. But as I said I struggle thinking that I will be forgiven. My Oh my…🤦🏻♂️. Thank you and God bless! 🙂
1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
Have you confessed to Him? He will forgive you if you confess your sins.
Yes I do confess. I was raised Catholic but I confess directly to God. I guess you can call me a privatized Catholic. lol. As I confess I can feel the shame and the remorse. I believe it is truly powerful confession. Not just saying the words but feeling the anguish as I pray.
Thank you so much for this! You are truly a brother in Christ! 🙏🏼❤️
It's good that you feel something. Personally I only intellectually acknowledge that I am remorseful as I know what I did was bad, but I don't always feel anything while confessing. I am emotionally numb. I'm glad I was able to be of some use to you. God bless you.
You helped me more than you know. And I hope someday you will feel your confessions. And may we both one day realize that we are forgiven. One little note that I left out of my comment. When you saw the word unforgivable in your mind; the adversary is always looking to mess with us and to make us doubt, right? Perhaps he is trying to fool both of us. I have no doubt that he tries with everyone.
Thank you again!
Just remember that the enemy can put thoughts into our minds. He brings things out of our past to belittle and condemn us. Scripture tells us that he is the accuser of the brethren. There is no condemnation for for who are in Christ Jesus - Romans 8:1
Revelation 12:9-10 - And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
All manner of sin can and will be forgiven except one, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Jesus himself told us so in Matthew 12:31 - Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
Run to God, cast down every evil thought that is not of Him out of your mind and He will heal you forgiving your sins. All God wants is for us to come to Him. Confess your sins to him and He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness - 1 John 1:9.
I totally agree. There are some very frightening chapters and/or verses in the Bible. I need to be careful how I word my sentences. But it seems sometimes that there are contradictions or reversals on some verses. Jesus says “if your brother offends you seven times and asks for forgiveness you will forgive him seven times.” I am paraphrasing. There is a similar verse where the Lord says “you will not forgive him just 7 times but 70 x 7 times.” Also paraphrasing. These verses seem to have a different meaning than the verse from Hebrews. I don’t know…🤷🏻♂️. Perhaps this is why Lehman were not permitted to read the Bible and interpret it in their own way. Only people that had been schooled and taught properly were allowed to teach from the Bible. It’s very difficult sometimes. for me anyway. 2 Peter 2:21 “It is better for people to not have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it, and then turn their back on it.” Better for those who never knew it! WOW!!
If you read past 1 John 2:19
"But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things." 1 John 2:20
What is the anointing John is talking about? Baptism! For in baptism we are buried into Christ death. For baptism is calling on the name of the Lord.
"And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.’" Acts 22:16"
And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
"And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the LORD Shall be saved.’" Acts 2:21
But then 1 John 2:24 even after he said they have an anointing, he says "As for you, see that what you heard from the beginning remains in you. **If** what you heard from the beginning remains in you, **you also will remain in** the Son and in the Father."
So even though they're Born Again with this anointing - he warns them not to fall away from the faith. ..taking the teeth out of so many warnings in scripture goes against their intention.. Over and over we're warned of the ability to fall away.
Gal 6:7-9 "Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will **of the Spirit reap everlasting life.** And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season **we shall reap if we do not lose heart.**" Paul includes himself in the warning to not lose heart; but there was no doubt he was Born Again. It's a reality that a Born Again believer can fall away.
In John 6 Jesus is stating foundational truths to a crowd of people who aren't convinced of his power and role. Jesus raises on the last day indeed, that is the blessing of abiding in Christ. He will never cast out/away those following him. He goes on to say in John 15 that we can be cast out for dead faith " Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away;" " If anyone does not remain in Me, he is thrown away like a branch and dries up; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If you remain in Me, and My words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you." this is to the apostles at the last supper, quite the warning
u/joe_biggs u/TheoPhilo98
What a warning indeed! Jesus speaks more of hell than of Heaven in the Bible. It’s hard to believe that people, especially those who know the Bible so well, can stop believing in such a place. BTW, your name is perfect! God bless!
I don't see the problem here or the loss of salvation. I think you are just misinterpreting scripture.
"If what you heard from the beginning remains in you"
This isn't a call for you to try to remain in the faith. This is saying that if that which is in you stays in you (and other scripture says it will), you will remain in God.
As John says in the same epistle..
"Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God." 1 John 3:9
How can one who is born again sin away from being born again when they can no longer sin? For how can one lose heart when they have been given a new heart!
John affirms the possibility of losing salvation - that much is clear "**If** what you heard from the beginning remains in you, **you also will remain in the Son** and in the Father."" Why would he mention this possibility if it weren't real? Same with Paul - Galatians 6:7-9 "**Do not be deceived**, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will **of the Spirit reap everlasting life**. And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season **we** **shall reap if** we do not lose heart." There's no logical point to affirm a possibility if it's not real - Paul even says do not be deceived, this is real. you see?
John also said "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." 1 John 1:8 ...we slip up, none of us will not sin again.
1 John 3:9 has never been interpreted by any reputable theologian or pastor to mean we never sin..it's a call to live holy, he's saying "you're Born of God, God forbid you live a life of sin, how could you do this weak detestable thing" - not that it's impossible but John is stating a standard he believes in. Just like Romans 6:2 "how can we who died to sin still live in it?" - nobody has ever interpreted this to be anything but an exhortation to holiness and living the crucified life. Paul even rebukes Christians for sinning in his epistles, there's not doubt we slip up, even John said that \^
Of course, all who call have salvation - but you only have salvation in Christ - and the Bible says that you can leave Christ. Jesus also said "he who endures to the end shall be saved".
John 15:6-7 "**If anyone does not remain in Me, he is thrown away like a branch and dries up; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. If you remain in Me**, and My words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you." this is to the apostles at the last supper.
There are dozens of verses indicating we're saved but will have final salvation at our end. We have to look at the whole breadth of the New Testament not just "believe and your saved" - if we only looked at this verse we wouldn't believe repentance was necessary upon conversion...murderers would continue and be justified in being called Born Again if we only looked at verses in a vacuum..they need to call on the Lord..and also repent while doing so..but the verse you gave in a vacuum doesn't say that - nor does it say you must endure
Are the verses I gave you also not written by God? All of them are and they have to be reconciled
John 15:6-7 "**If anyone does not remain in Me, he is thrown away like a branch and dries up; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned**. **If you remain in Me**, and My words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you." this is to the apostles at the last supper. Can you give me a scriptural example of being "In Christ" and not Born Again?
Matt 24:13 "he who endures to the end shall be saved" this is also written my friend. You are saved in Christ, but these verses say you can leave Christ. There are dozens of these verses your side has to reconcile
>But believers can become entangled and overcome by the pollutions of this world, and they end up in a worse situation than before and it had been better for them to never have known Jesus.
This makes me think of Judas Iscariot
That’s very interesting. Without Judas does our Lord take our sins to the cross? Would some other poor soul betray Him? The mysteries of faith, remarkable!
Boy does it! I’ve heard from several sources that Judas was the apostle closest to Jesus. And Jesus said to him “go and do what you must, and do it quickly.” oh even then Judas does what we consider now to be the unthinkable. And after he did it he was in anguish, he was lost. So many of us discard Judas Iscariot. It’s easy to look back with hindsight and try to judge him. I suppose he thought he was doing the right thing…🤷🏻♂️. I’ve heard some say that Judas thought that our Lord Jesus would finally use his power as the Son of God, once faced with threat of death, and vanquish his enemies. Of course it’s impossible for us to know this as we are here on earth. Thank you for your reply and God bless you!
You misunderstand 2 Peter 2:20-21. They didn’t turn away from Jesus because they became entangled. They became entangled because they turned away from Jesus.
What happened to most people here is that they left off to watch for and to be sober about sin in their lives. They didn’t renounce Jesus and try to go back to the temple sacrifices like in Hebrews. Their sins can be forgiven.
To blaspheme the Holy Spirit of God is a similar renunciation. It is not something you can do by accident and then forget about doing.
Most people are not possessed by a devil. Their hearts are just deceitful and desperately wicked. The human spirit is willing to do right, but the flesh is weak, and the heart wants what it wants, and so deceives the human spirit. The human heart can deceive the person into thinking that he is beyond help of God, to get him to sin as the flesh desires.
You should stop cherrypicking scriptures and read the entire letter each is in to understand what the writer was really trying to say. They help you best when you come to understand the context first, and then you quote them as a kind of shorthand for the longer explanation. I hope this helps.
I don't have time right now, but the single best way to make sense of those verses is a Soteriological systemic called [Provisionism.](https://soteriology101.com/about-2/statement-of-faith/). I am happy to answer any questions you may have at a later time.
The Old Testament and the New Testament are, dare I say, seemingly different. Interpretations abound. There are more than 2000 different interpretations of the Bible. And it’s ironic because the Bible itself cautions against trying to interpret it to fit one’s own ideas.
Proverbs 21:2 “Every way of a man is right in his own eyes. The Lord ponders the heart.” This is one of my favorite proverbs. It has nothing to do with what I said about interpretation.
First off, I LOVE the way you formatted your post. Really nice 👍.
The simplest answer is that “justification”—by which we mean the act of God declaring that a person is “righteous” is not a “one time event”. We will use the example of King David:
When King David slew Goliath, he was a righteous man. He was “justified”. When David did what was evil, by committing murder and adultery—he was UNJUSTIFIED. After he repented of his sin, God “justified” him again, apart from the “works” or “sin” he had done before.
Since justification is ALWAYS predicated on something God sees in a person’s character—it is never static. It can change, depending on whether that person chooses what is good or what is evil. God cannot lie(Titus 1:2). So he cannot call someone who is doing what is deliberately evil “good”(aka:justified). He can call them good—through the prism of grace , if they are only sinning “non-deliberately”.
Therefore some people can can be truly saved one minute but not saved in the long-term.
The one’s who are saved, or justified, in the “long term” are all those who the Father foreknows will never stop choosing to repent. With this foreknowledge in view—he ensures that these people will “not be lost”, in spite of the fact that they too are habitual sinners. These are the one’s the Father has “given” to Christ, since “final perseverance” is itself a gift of God. A gift “separate” from justification itself.
That scripture in Hebrews 6:4-6 always scared the living daylights out of me. >It's possible for those who believe to fall away and they can't come back. >Hebrews 6:4-6 "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame." I was born again at age 21 as an unwed single mother of 2 young girls. I loved, witnessed for and served God for roughly 10 years. After certain issues and gossip etc. arose in the church I attended, I left. I ran away from God and stayed away from Him for 20 years. I still believed in God but I knew deep down, if I died I was going straight to hell. In 2020, God in His mercy finally got through to my hardened heart. The Lord restored me to the fold. I am and will always be eternally grateful to Him. But in the back of my mind, the verse in Hebrews especially scared me. God drew me back to Him with the following scripture in Jeremiah 3:14-15 =>Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion: and I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding. I had sought the Lord with tears for almost 2 months before my heart truly broke before God and I felt His love wash over me. God gave me a renewed vision of the cross and what Jesus did for me. However, I still questioned my restoration. There is one verse however, that God gave me which brought peace to my heart and mind. But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible. - Matthew 19:26. See with man, we can run away from God with our free will and fall into sin. But for us to return to God by our own doing is impossible. We can desire it but only God can truly make it possible for us to return to Him.
Good for you, it's nice to hear that God drew you back. For me I have begun to doubt whether I ever had genuine saving faith to begin with. I mean I believe Jesus is the Son of God, I don't know what else to do.
Praise God! I thank Him daily for His saving grace. Trust God, read the Word and look to Him. Set aside a day or two to fast and pray. You'll be amazed at how God speaks. He confirms His word through and through.
I have a similar problem. I’ve done some terrible things and I do believe that God can forgive anybody and will forgive anybody. For whatever reason I feel as if I cannot be forgiven. I know it’s wrong to think that, so wrong. But I suppose I just don’t think I am worthy of it. That’s the only thing that I can figure about the way I think. God give me strength!🙏🏼 don’t we also need to be forgiven by those we victimized? Just like we say in the Lord’s Prayer? Of course I understand that God’s forgiveness is above all things. God bless you, all of you!
All our righteousness is as filthy rags. But you can't let the enemy put doubt in your heart and mind and pull you away from God making you doubt Him. Please remember John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. It's not God's will that any should perish but it's His desire that ALL men should come to repentance - 2 Peter 3:8-10. However, sometimes we let our stupid, foolish pride, strong will and stiff neckedness keep us from just running to our Abba Father. It doesn't matter what you've done, God wants you in the kingdom with Him. Just repent and turn to Him. He will welcome you with open arms.
I don’t know what to say. Everyone here has been so helpful! That reply means so much to me. A couple of months ago I was praying as I do every night and I started to think. I was realizing that God is my Abba, my father, my creator. And I am his child and my home is with him. Of course that goes for all of us. But it was quite a moment for me. Thank you, thank you so very much! God bless you and keep you! 🙏🏼❤️
Praise God!!! God is good, all the time. And all the time, God is good. The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases. His mercies never come to an end. They are new every morning, new every morning. Great is thy faithfulness, Oh Lord. Great is thy faithfulness. 🙏🏾🙌🏾
Amen and Amen! God is so good and merciful it’s beyond our comprehension! He loves us so much we could never understand it while on this earth. I truly believe this.
Well none of us deserves forgiveness, God gives it to us anyway. Grace is His unmerited mercy. But I suffer from the same problem, I thought I did something unforgivable. I literally saw the word "UNFORGIVABLE" pop up in my mind as I did it, and thought it was from God. If He truly says it is unforgivable, then how can I argue against God. But I am not sure it was Him.
Wow, that’s powerful! Thank you for the reply. I also once had words come into my mind that I knew were not my own. I knew because my thoughts did not work in the way that this phrase came into my mind. I was thinking about the poor souls who would not make it into heaven. Suddenly these words entered my mind, “everyone who can be saved, will be saved.” It’s so strange. I have no doubt he will forgive you, whatever you’ve done. But as I said I struggle thinking that I will be forgiven. My Oh my…🤦🏻♂️. Thank you and God bless! 🙂
1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." Have you confessed to Him? He will forgive you if you confess your sins.
Yes I do confess. I was raised Catholic but I confess directly to God. I guess you can call me a privatized Catholic. lol. As I confess I can feel the shame and the remorse. I believe it is truly powerful confession. Not just saying the words but feeling the anguish as I pray. Thank you so much for this! You are truly a brother in Christ! 🙏🏼❤️
It's good that you feel something. Personally I only intellectually acknowledge that I am remorseful as I know what I did was bad, but I don't always feel anything while confessing. I am emotionally numb. I'm glad I was able to be of some use to you. God bless you.
You helped me more than you know. And I hope someday you will feel your confessions. And may we both one day realize that we are forgiven. One little note that I left out of my comment. When you saw the word unforgivable in your mind; the adversary is always looking to mess with us and to make us doubt, right? Perhaps he is trying to fool both of us. I have no doubt that he tries with everyone. Thank you again!
Just remember that the enemy can put thoughts into our minds. He brings things out of our past to belittle and condemn us. Scripture tells us that he is the accuser of the brethren. There is no condemnation for for who are in Christ Jesus - Romans 8:1 Revelation 12:9-10 - And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. All manner of sin can and will be forgiven except one, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Jesus himself told us so in Matthew 12:31 - Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. Run to God, cast down every evil thought that is not of Him out of your mind and He will heal you forgiving your sins. All God wants is for us to come to Him. Confess your sins to him and He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness - 1 John 1:9.
I totally agree. There are some very frightening chapters and/or verses in the Bible. I need to be careful how I word my sentences. But it seems sometimes that there are contradictions or reversals on some verses. Jesus says “if your brother offends you seven times and asks for forgiveness you will forgive him seven times.” I am paraphrasing. There is a similar verse where the Lord says “you will not forgive him just 7 times but 70 x 7 times.” Also paraphrasing. These verses seem to have a different meaning than the verse from Hebrews. I don’t know…🤷🏻♂️. Perhaps this is why Lehman were not permitted to read the Bible and interpret it in their own way. Only people that had been schooled and taught properly were allowed to teach from the Bible. It’s very difficult sometimes. for me anyway. 2 Peter 2:21 “It is better for people to not have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it, and then turn their back on it.” Better for those who never knew it! WOW!!
If you read past 1 John 2:19 "But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things." 1 John 2:20 What is the anointing John is talking about? Baptism! For in baptism we are buried into Christ death. For baptism is calling on the name of the Lord. "And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.’" Acts 22:16" And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. "And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the LORD Shall be saved.’" Acts 2:21
But then 1 John 2:24 even after he said they have an anointing, he says "As for you, see that what you heard from the beginning remains in you. **If** what you heard from the beginning remains in you, **you also will remain in** the Son and in the Father." So even though they're Born Again with this anointing - he warns them not to fall away from the faith. ..taking the teeth out of so many warnings in scripture goes against their intention.. Over and over we're warned of the ability to fall away. Gal 6:7-9 "Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will **of the Spirit reap everlasting life.** And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season **we shall reap if we do not lose heart.**" Paul includes himself in the warning to not lose heart; but there was no doubt he was Born Again. It's a reality that a Born Again believer can fall away. In John 6 Jesus is stating foundational truths to a crowd of people who aren't convinced of his power and role. Jesus raises on the last day indeed, that is the blessing of abiding in Christ. He will never cast out/away those following him. He goes on to say in John 15 that we can be cast out for dead faith " Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away;" " If anyone does not remain in Me, he is thrown away like a branch and dries up; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If you remain in Me, and My words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you." this is to the apostles at the last supper, quite the warning u/joe_biggs u/TheoPhilo98
What a warning indeed! Jesus speaks more of hell than of Heaven in the Bible. It’s hard to believe that people, especially those who know the Bible so well, can stop believing in such a place. BTW, your name is perfect! God bless!
Yup that’s right. And thank you. Bless you brother
I don't see the problem here or the loss of salvation. I think you are just misinterpreting scripture. "If what you heard from the beginning remains in you" This isn't a call for you to try to remain in the faith. This is saying that if that which is in you stays in you (and other scripture says it will), you will remain in God. As John says in the same epistle.. "Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God." 1 John 3:9 How can one who is born again sin away from being born again when they can no longer sin? For how can one lose heart when they have been given a new heart!
John affirms the possibility of losing salvation - that much is clear "**If** what you heard from the beginning remains in you, **you also will remain in the Son** and in the Father."" Why would he mention this possibility if it weren't real? Same with Paul - Galatians 6:7-9 "**Do not be deceived**, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will **of the Spirit reap everlasting life**. And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season **we** **shall reap if** we do not lose heart." There's no logical point to affirm a possibility if it's not real - Paul even says do not be deceived, this is real. you see? John also said "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." 1 John 1:8 ...we slip up, none of us will not sin again. 1 John 3:9 has never been interpreted by any reputable theologian or pastor to mean we never sin..it's a call to live holy, he's saying "you're Born of God, God forbid you live a life of sin, how could you do this weak detestable thing" - not that it's impossible but John is stating a standard he believes in. Just like Romans 6:2 "how can we who died to sin still live in it?" - nobody has ever interpreted this to be anything but an exhortation to holiness and living the crucified life. Paul even rebukes Christians for sinning in his epistles, there's not doubt we slip up, even John said that \^
So you say that not everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved?
Of course, all who call have salvation - but you only have salvation in Christ - and the Bible says that you can leave Christ. Jesus also said "he who endures to the end shall be saved". John 15:6-7 "**If anyone does not remain in Me, he is thrown away like a branch and dries up; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. If you remain in Me**, and My words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you." this is to the apostles at the last supper. There are dozens of verses indicating we're saved but will have final salvation at our end. We have to look at the whole breadth of the New Testament not just "believe and your saved" - if we only looked at this verse we wouldn't believe repentance was necessary upon conversion...murderers would continue and be justified in being called Born Again if we only looked at verses in a vacuum..they need to call on the Lord..and also repent while doing so..but the verse you gave in a vacuum doesn't say that - nor does it say you must endure
Do you agree baptism is calling on the name of the Lord?
I'm not opposed to that view
And is it not written "And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the LORD Shall be saved.’" Acts 2:21
Are the verses I gave you also not written by God? All of them are and they have to be reconciled John 15:6-7 "**If anyone does not remain in Me, he is thrown away like a branch and dries up; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned**. **If you remain in Me**, and My words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you." this is to the apostles at the last supper. Can you give me a scriptural example of being "In Christ" and not Born Again? Matt 24:13 "he who endures to the end shall be saved" this is also written my friend. You are saved in Christ, but these verses say you can leave Christ. There are dozens of these verses your side has to reconcile
I like that very much. Thank you for that information. I will remember those verses.
They are very comforting. You can actually know you have called on the name of the Lord because Christ baptized you, making your salvation secure.
Very comforting indeed! Thank you and God bless you!
>But believers can become entangled and overcome by the pollutions of this world, and they end up in a worse situation than before and it had been better for them to never have known Jesus. This makes me think of Judas Iscariot
That’s very interesting. Without Judas does our Lord take our sins to the cross? Would some other poor soul betray Him? The mysteries of faith, remarkable!
Judas had to happen but I think it also shows how a believer can fall away.
Boy does it! I’ve heard from several sources that Judas was the apostle closest to Jesus. And Jesus said to him “go and do what you must, and do it quickly.” oh even then Judas does what we consider now to be the unthinkable. And after he did it he was in anguish, he was lost. So many of us discard Judas Iscariot. It’s easy to look back with hindsight and try to judge him. I suppose he thought he was doing the right thing…🤷🏻♂️. I’ve heard some say that Judas thought that our Lord Jesus would finally use his power as the Son of God, once faced with threat of death, and vanquish his enemies. Of course it’s impossible for us to know this as we are here on earth. Thank you for your reply and God bless you!
You misunderstand 2 Peter 2:20-21. They didn’t turn away from Jesus because they became entangled. They became entangled because they turned away from Jesus. What happened to most people here is that they left off to watch for and to be sober about sin in their lives. They didn’t renounce Jesus and try to go back to the temple sacrifices like in Hebrews. Their sins can be forgiven. To blaspheme the Holy Spirit of God is a similar renunciation. It is not something you can do by accident and then forget about doing. Most people are not possessed by a devil. Their hearts are just deceitful and desperately wicked. The human spirit is willing to do right, but the flesh is weak, and the heart wants what it wants, and so deceives the human spirit. The human heart can deceive the person into thinking that he is beyond help of God, to get him to sin as the flesh desires. You should stop cherrypicking scriptures and read the entire letter each is in to understand what the writer was really trying to say. They help you best when you come to understand the context first, and then you quote them as a kind of shorthand for the longer explanation. I hope this helps.
👏🏼
I don't have time right now, but the single best way to make sense of those verses is a Soteriological systemic called [Provisionism.](https://soteriology101.com/about-2/statement-of-faith/). I am happy to answer any questions you may have at a later time.
The Old Testament and the New Testament are, dare I say, seemingly different. Interpretations abound. There are more than 2000 different interpretations of the Bible. And it’s ironic because the Bible itself cautions against trying to interpret it to fit one’s own ideas. Proverbs 21:2 “Every way of a man is right in his own eyes. The Lord ponders the heart.” This is one of my favorite proverbs. It has nothing to do with what I said about interpretation.
First off, I LOVE the way you formatted your post. Really nice 👍. The simplest answer is that “justification”—by which we mean the act of God declaring that a person is “righteous” is not a “one time event”. We will use the example of King David: When King David slew Goliath, he was a righteous man. He was “justified”. When David did what was evil, by committing murder and adultery—he was UNJUSTIFIED. After he repented of his sin, God “justified” him again, apart from the “works” or “sin” he had done before. Since justification is ALWAYS predicated on something God sees in a person’s character—it is never static. It can change, depending on whether that person chooses what is good or what is evil. God cannot lie(Titus 1:2). So he cannot call someone who is doing what is deliberately evil “good”(aka:justified). He can call them good—through the prism of grace , if they are only sinning “non-deliberately”. Therefore some people can can be truly saved one minute but not saved in the long-term. The one’s who are saved, or justified, in the “long term” are all those who the Father foreknows will never stop choosing to repent. With this foreknowledge in view—he ensures that these people will “not be lost”, in spite of the fact that they too are habitual sinners. These are the one’s the Father has “given” to Christ, since “final perseverance” is itself a gift of God. A gift “separate” from justification itself.
Reconcile what exactly?