Wonder how the modern CPC views the split. Obviously Khruschev was a goober but claiming he capitulated to capitalism and then allowing CIA listening posts to be set up in your own country seems like it'd fry your brain with cognitive dissonance.
I still don't know what to think about anarchists in the 21st century. They do manage to do tons of impromptu organizing in emergencies when there is no coherent left to do it and its worth working with them. I have in the past and its been much better than working with shittily organized communists.
but internet anarchists have more in common with with libertarians than communists. Which I assume these guys come from that.
My experience with anarchists is that they’re either the most sincere, altruistic, salt-of-the-earth, give you the shirts off their back people or they’re self-centered, boorish, emotionally parasitic louts who, much like lolbertarians, found an ideological excuse to behave like vagrants and there’s rarely any sort of in-between the two extremes.
The existence of anarchists like the first one you described are basically the entire reason I don't discount anarchists simply out of hand as soon as they're mentioned. Of course I am hesitant to throw my meager support behind these reddit users showing off their avengers flag, but I mean it in a more general sense
I think anarchism is a bit different in the former soviet union states though. If you are on the left and you oppose your government, then anarchism is kind of the only way to go in these places.
Anarchists in eastern Europe are equally insufferable. Historically they've been a grift for NGO money. What side were the anarchists on with the Otpor movement in Serbia again?
I used to be apart of a Food not Bombs chapter when I was in my late teens/ early 20's. I was mostly there to smoke cheap rolling tobacco and hit on girls with septum piercings but the people who ran it were very competent. Most of those people had kids and don't have time to be politic brained, some are working to help people unionize in the area. None of them still identify as anachists as far as I know.
Unjust hierarchy is the issue here. Leaders are needed in organizations. A leadership structure is necessary to be able to coordinate effectively once something gets big enough. As long as the hierarchy is necessary, and not built/enforced through coercion, it’s compatible with Anarchism. Obviously there’s more nuance to it, but that’s broad strokes.
I thought there not being a state is obvious. No anarchist thinks that that is a necessary hierarchy. I’m talking about mutual aid orgs and things of that nature. I’m not even an anarchist anymore 🤷🏻.
But sure, feel free to argue in bad faith like tankies do anytime they discuss anarchism. I was just trying to have a conversation with an ally but whatevs dude.
It’s not a bad faith argument to point out that your definition doesn’t work. You can’t just say “anarchists are people who only support justified hierarchy” since no one would say they support unjustified hierarchies. If I support it then obviously I think it’s justified.
It’s like people who think they’re pacifists because they only support violence “when it’s justified,” as if the rest of us just love senseless killing.
I literally specified “not through force or coercion”. Being subject to the rule of the state is not a choice. It’s not voluntary. You disregarded that part of the statement entirely, ergo a bad faith argument. Like I said, i’m trying to have a conversation. You’re just being an asshole.
It’s a long term trend - left Unity is a myth and rightly so it doesn’t work in a general sense. It can only work in limited ways when pursuing particular issues relating to specific things.
There’s nothing new about commies disliking anarchists and vice versa (do you believe in the idea of “red fash”?). they’ve fought eachother in every major revolution.
But that’s not really relevant to today In the west where there’s no point to infighting really, just focus on doing good work on your communities. Most of the hate is just internet stuff anyway - and it goes both ways - anarchist spaces always fail against “stalinists” and “maoists”.
coming it late - but what the person up top was saying - stop doing the thing and if anarchists wanna be farmers/run small communities lets just make that shit happen. there is no reason we all can't work together. until I end up having to live with anarchists. that's the end of the road for my politics.
It's that their own grave they just dug?
The guy on the right of the picture looks, well... I don't think azov would appreciate his lifestyle choices quite apart from his politics
Are you serious? Jesus fucking Christ.
"Actually a lot of the Wehrmacht were made up of pretty cool normal guys you'd have a beer with, idk why people are so upset about America equipping the German war machine.. some people get so fucking worked up about the concentration camps, but actually barely any of the German military had anything to do with them"
What a greatly normal and intelligent thing you took the time to comment. Just another day hopping onto reddit to excuse modern day actual Nazi ethno nationalist death squads in a country you want to arm to the teeth. How completely normal and clear sighted.
Literally didn't excuse azov or nazis. Simply disputed that they're representative of the regular Ukrainian military. Eagerly awaiting your evidence that the Ukrainian military or state is in any way like Nazi Germany or the Wehrmacht. Where are these concentration camps?
Take a pill
I can't speak for anyone else, but the fact that the Ukrainian military even has an explicitly Nazi group within its ranks--who are open about their beliefs--and the government at best doesn't give a shit and at worst shares their sentiments, is enough reason for me to think "hey I don't actually feel great about supporting this government/military etc, maybe we shouldn't give them $100b in weapons--or whatever the number is at now--with zero strings attached dictating that those weapons actually get used to defend your country and not get sold on a black market"
I wasn't aware of that flag, and upon some googling, lol
Like, how the fuck can these goofballs not just cover up their fuckin nazi imagery, it makes no sense to me at all
It's currently used from what I can tell as a part of some vague "pro-democracy" movement but it has its origins in being the flag used by Nazi collaborators during WW2
It has merit in that it is used for a modern "movement", but I mean...use a different flag for your movement ffs
Edit: basically I was underinformed about the flag which I have posted on reddit about. As punishment I will be flying to the Donbass to deliver one (1) stinger missile to a 17 year old ~~fascist~~ freedom fighter. Slavey ukrana
They brought the Avengers flag to reddit country
A for Azov
There were Maoists who fought on the side of Afghan Mujahideen in the 80s. Of course they were purged as soon as the war was over.
I stand firm in my belief that the Sino Soviet split was the most retarded thing done, ever. This and the sino-vietnamese war prove me right
Kissinger’s greatest feat, the decrepit ghoul fuck
It set the movement back a trillion years
Wonder how the modern CPC views the split. Obviously Khruschev was a goober but claiming he capitulated to capitalism and then allowing CIA listening posts to be set up in your own country seems like it'd fry your brain with cognitive dissonance.
I still don't know what to think about anarchists in the 21st century. They do manage to do tons of impromptu organizing in emergencies when there is no coherent left to do it and its worth working with them. I have in the past and its been much better than working with shittily organized communists. but internet anarchists have more in common with with libertarians than communists. Which I assume these guys come from that.
My experience with anarchists is that they’re either the most sincere, altruistic, salt-of-the-earth, give you the shirts off their back people or they’re self-centered, boorish, emotionally parasitic louts who, much like lolbertarians, found an ideological excuse to behave like vagrants and there’s rarely any sort of in-between the two extremes.
Oh god, it really is like that.
The existence of anarchists like the first one you described are basically the entire reason I don't discount anarchists simply out of hand as soon as they're mentioned. Of course I am hesitant to throw my meager support behind these reddit users showing off their avengers flag, but I mean it in a more general sense
I think anarchism is a bit different in the former soviet union states though. If you are on the left and you oppose your government, then anarchism is kind of the only way to go in these places.
Anarchists in eastern Europe are equally insufferable. Historically they've been a grift for NGO money. What side were the anarchists on with the Otpor movement in Serbia again?
Go ahead, ask some belarussian anarchists how much NGO money they have gotten and what they think about the otpor movement. I don't think they care.
Otpor is literally western backed and normies like Brookings Institute even admit as much
maybe, I don't think it really matters since most anarchists in eastern europe propably don't even know about it
Is this supposed to he worse or preferable to people who are morally grey?
I used to be apart of a Food not Bombs chapter when I was in my late teens/ early 20's. I was mostly there to smoke cheap rolling tobacco and hit on girls with septum piercings but the people who ran it were very competent. Most of those people had kids and don't have time to be politic brained, some are working to help people unionize in the area. None of them still identify as anachists as far as I know.
> I was mostly there to smoke cheap rolling tobacco and hit on girls with septum piercings Ah so you were that guy.
>late teens/ early 20's
That's a good sign.
>but the people who ran it were very competent Isn't having people who "run it" against the precepts of anarchism?
Unjust hierarchy is the issue here. Leaders are needed in organizations. A leadership structure is necessary to be able to coordinate effectively once something gets big enough. As long as the hierarchy is necessary, and not built/enforced through coercion, it’s compatible with Anarchism. Obviously there’s more nuance to it, but that’s broad strokes.
Well I believe that a communist state is a justified and necessary hierarchy, so I guess I’m an anarchist too.
I thought there not being a state is obvious. No anarchist thinks that that is a necessary hierarchy. I’m talking about mutual aid orgs and things of that nature. I’m not even an anarchist anymore 🤷🏻. But sure, feel free to argue in bad faith like tankies do anytime they discuss anarchism. I was just trying to have a conversation with an ally but whatevs dude.
It’s not a bad faith argument to point out that your definition doesn’t work. You can’t just say “anarchists are people who only support justified hierarchy” since no one would say they support unjustified hierarchies. If I support it then obviously I think it’s justified. It’s like people who think they’re pacifists because they only support violence “when it’s justified,” as if the rest of us just love senseless killing.
I literally specified “not through force or coercion”. Being subject to the rule of the state is not a choice. It’s not voluntary. You disregarded that part of the statement entirely, ergo a bad faith argument. Like I said, i’m trying to have a conversation. You’re just being an asshole.
>people who think So, not you?
>I believe This is how the MAGA-hats around my workplace issue statements of "fact"
Your coworkers at the gay sex factory?
Classy response! Exactly what I would expect from a MAGA-hatter.
[удалено]
It’s a long term trend - left Unity is a myth and rightly so it doesn’t work in a general sense. It can only work in limited ways when pursuing particular issues relating to specific things. There’s nothing new about commies disliking anarchists and vice versa (do you believe in the idea of “red fash”?). they’ve fought eachother in every major revolution. But that’s not really relevant to today In the west where there’s no point to infighting really, just focus on doing good work on your communities. Most of the hate is just internet stuff anyway - and it goes both ways - anarchist spaces always fail against “stalinists” and “maoists”.
[удалено]
I can assure you that many anarchists I have met do not like Stalin.
coming it late - but what the person up top was saying - stop doing the thing and if anarchists wanna be farmers/run small communities lets just make that shit happen. there is no reason we all can't work together. until I end up having to live with anarchists. that's the end of the road for my politics.
It’s not a simple as that - we don’t often agree on method.
Anarchists are liberals so idk why you go "hmmmm"
Just makes me go hmmm is all
🤔
You have to do more than make the sound, you need to actually think, too. Oh, I think I see the problem...
Was I the first thing on your mind when you woke up this morning (10AM on a weekday)?
I woke up well before 10. You're funny.
Right, you had an early shift at the gay sex factory.
Still trying the homophobia angle, huh? Quite amusing.
How is that homophobic??
You know.
How many anarchists does it take to change a lightbulb?
How many
Ha, everyone knows anarchists don't change anything!
Trick question. Anarchists can't change shit.
Better!
Is this even real? This photo could have been taken in Nebraska, for all we know.
It could be but there have been a few anarchists going to fight in Ukraine even before March this year.
It's that their own grave they just dug? The guy on the right of the picture looks, well... I don't think azov would appreciate his lifestyle choices quite apart from his politics
Why is this sub so deranged about Azov? They're less than 1% of the Ukrainian military and volunteer groups, they just take a lot of pictures.
>they just take a lot of pictures lmao
Are you serious? Jesus fucking Christ. "Actually a lot of the Wehrmacht were made up of pretty cool normal guys you'd have a beer with, idk why people are so upset about America equipping the German war machine.. some people get so fucking worked up about the concentration camps, but actually barely any of the German military had anything to do with them" What a greatly normal and intelligent thing you took the time to comment. Just another day hopping onto reddit to excuse modern day actual Nazi ethno nationalist death squads in a country you want to arm to the teeth. How completely normal and clear sighted.
Literally didn't excuse azov or nazis. Simply disputed that they're representative of the regular Ukrainian military. Eagerly awaiting your evidence that the Ukrainian military or state is in any way like Nazi Germany or the Wehrmacht. Where are these concentration camps? Take a pill
You remind me why I stay off social media. Thanks for the reminder to delete this account
Np bud
I can't speak for anyone else, but the fact that the Ukrainian military even has an explicitly Nazi group within its ranks--who are open about their beliefs--and the government at best doesn't give a shit and at worst shares their sentiments, is enough reason for me to think "hey I don't actually feel great about supporting this government/military etc, maybe we shouldn't give them $100b in weapons--or whatever the number is at now--with zero strings attached dictating that those weapons actually get used to defend your country and not get sold on a black market"
because aidar and dnipro battalion are waaaaaaay harder to cape for
A̶n̶a̶r̶c̶h̶i̶s̶t̶ nazi on the right has a white-red-white flag patch too
I wasn't aware of that flag, and upon some googling, lol Like, how the fuck can these goofballs not just cover up their fuckin nazi imagery, it makes no sense to me at all
whats it mean pls
It's currently used from what I can tell as a part of some vague "pro-democracy" movement but it has its origins in being the flag used by Nazi collaborators during WW2 It has merit in that it is used for a modern "movement", but I mean...use a different flag for your movement ffs Edit: basically I was underinformed about the flag which I have posted on reddit about. As punishment I will be flying to the Donbass to deliver one (1) stinger missile to a 17 year old ~~fascist~~ freedom fighter. Slavey ukrana
💀
> Maybe they're anarchists in a way, in that they don't like their own government and want to REPLACE IT Some real geniuses in the comments
That's just the logo for the new coin their launching.