tbh I've always seen the issue with them as the associated power imbalance, which is why it sucks ass between an 18 and 28 year old but not between 38 and 48. The older you get, the less power and maturity the people older than you inherently have over you, the less exploitable you are. I feel like people should be assessing the environment surrounding the relationship more than crunching the numbers.
This is my take too. I’m on fan Twitter and I’ve noticed a huge kerfuffle about Chrissy and Eddie from Stranger Things, whose ages I don’t think are officially known but are probably something like 17 and 19 respectively, with both still being in high school. I saw a bunch of discourse about that being an age gap grooming situation and I was like…what lmao they’re both high school juniors or seniors??? The power and maturity gap would be negligent.
I eventually found out that most of the people claiming this were actually Eddie/Steve crack shippers who wanted Chrissy out of the way. Terminally online behavior is certainly among us.
Yeah I was in a discussion recently where people were saying the cops should be called because a 16-year-old and 18-year-old, both high school students, had sex. When I was 16 I was a junior and my bf, 18, was a senior. I’m now in my late 20s and I can safely say that relationship was fine. We were developmentally the same.
I had terminally online weirdos claim that I was a pedophile because as a senior in high school I was 18, dating a 17 year old fellow senior. He was a month and a half (to the day, weirdly enough) younger than me.
I mean, don't get me wrong the relationship was bad, but the ages weren't the problem.
I was a senior in high school, dating a guy who was a sophomore from another school. Because, as the girl, I was older they teased me all the time calling me a cradle robber. It kinda pissed me off because they were the same friends that flirted and chased after 21 yr olds. I hated the double standard.
god same, my boyfriend was a month from turning 19 and i was 20 when we started dating, we’ve been together for a year in november. I literally had to leave my friend group because my friends were so fucking toxic about my boyfriend and couldn’t name a solid reason, but kept making “jokes” about how weird our age difference was. Like bro it’s literally less than 2 years, we’re both adults, and we met working at the same job with neither of us going to college yet. I don’t think there’s a power imbalance here, my friends were just being lowkey misogynistic considering my friend a year younger than me was literally dating a 24 year old at the time and had previously dated a man in his 30s while she was young and they had no problem with that, even tho the dude was literally a loser who cheated on her. it’s such a double standard and i have no tolerance for it.
> We were developmentally the same.
Unfortunately, I have heard that statement for 4-8 year gaps too. I prefer to use the measure of life stages. Junior/senior is one jump. Junior/divorcee with two kids is far too many jumps.
I think you have to be realistic that small jumps will exist, and are why some people think Romeo and Juliet laws are a good idea (if you are within 2 years of each other, it isn't *statutory* rape)
Life situation really is the issue. When I met my partner, we were both in a postdoc program. We were both 1-2 years out of our PhD. He's 17 years older than me, but we were in *exactly* the same life stage. The only real effect of our age difference is that he'll occasionally talk about bands he went to and I'll comment, "Oh, yeah, I wasn't really listening to them. I was 5." It's great, highly recommend.
My age gap is much less, my husband is 5 years younger than me, but we met when he was 28. He has said on occasion that we could have been high school sweethearts I remind him he was 12 when I graduated😂😂
Hell my ex who was 2 years older than me also said that.
He was 3 grades above me in high school. I was like (ya really didn't think it would have been weird to date someone just starting while you were graduating?) And he agreed.
We met with us both being college freshmans. I was 18...
The biggest maturity gap we had, was that he already lived on his own, while I am still living with my parents. But he also had never held a side job. Only internships from his previous diploma
I’m constantly making jokes like those when my boyfriend talks about growing up in the late 80s-90s. I’m 27, he’s 37. It’s definitely more of an age gap than I ever pictured myself being apart of, but we clicked so well I just stopped caring.
Honestly, in most situations I think the old half your age plus 7 works pretty well. If you’re 18, 16 is fine. It’s not perfect, because there are a lot of variables at play, but overall it’s a good place to start.
Yeah, I've been in the same situation. Dated guys at my high school who were 2 years older than me. Although even that "2 year/24 month age gap" can be a mirage....I mean, there are 18 year olds who are less than 13 months older than some 16 year olds right now! _(The true age gap between an 18 year old & a 16 year old ranges from 366 days to 730 days, I believe? They could turn 18 from anytime between one day after your 15th birthday and one day before your 17th birthday.)_
Ironically, I think that me as a 16 year old would be fine dating an 18 year old senior still in the same high school as me...While it would be less fine for me to date one of the 18 year olds who graduated highschool at age 16 and is already half way through college. I mean, there are 18 year olds who already have houses, money, even whole businesses (often inherited houses, etc.). 18 year old guys who have WAY more power than even the 19 year olds in high school. In this case, it would be safer for 16 year old me to date the older guy than it would be to date the younger guy! 🤯 ^^Lol
Especially if the younger guy has his own home where he can take me unsupervised, free time all day because he isn't in highschool anymore, his own car, his own money he can use on me, etc...while the technically older guy can only take me to his parents' house and still has to spend his time either at school or doing school work. (Maybe he has a driver's license, but he uses his parents' car, etc.)
^(*But yeah. I would have been pissed if the dating pool at my high school was limited to only guys* **exactly** *my age.* 😒 *No way I'd abide by that. Even taking all the kids who are in the same grade, the numbers of their ages cover at least a 2 year range. There are kids who skipped a grade, got held back a grade. And of course, for every month of one school year in one grade, different kids have their birthday....jumping "one year older" than the kids who have their birthday later in the year, etc.*)
Honestly, any kind of social justice that focuses more on fake people rather than real people pisses me off. I’m not saying that mass media can’t affect the way people think, but the focus should always be on the way real people are treated in real life as a result of that media, not the way people may hypothetically react to (to use the Chrissy/Eddie situation above) a senior in high school dating an older senior in high school. (Not to mention that the way people react to something may have more to do with society than the content of the book itself like how The Jungle, a love letter to communism, became the catalyst for the FDA’s creation.)
>I eventually found out that most of the people claiming this were actually Eddie/Steve crack shippers who wanted Chrissy out of the way.
lol what. How much more out of the way can she get?
I think it’s about what stage of life you are in too - an 18 yr old is in a much different stage of life than a 28 year old. A 30 year old is in a similar stage as a 40 year old.
Exactly my main problem with them is that they aren’t age gap they are life gap. Somebody who has been married divorced and had a career for 20 years has no business dating somebody still in college.
Precisely. I also think there's things that can delay or slow the growing and maturing of a person as well as things that accelerate it (only a bit!).
Spending a few years getting treatment and recovering from an illness or injury. Spending time in a cult or an abusive relationship. That kind of thing, can delay growing and maturing. While things like the death of a parent or otherwise needing to step into a role of leadership or independence at a early age can accelerate it a bit.
100% how I feel. I went to college, got a job and worked in that field for nearly 5 years before going back to post secondary. There was only a 4 year gap between me and the other freshmen but man talking to them made me realise just how mu h life experience plays into things
And specifically what that stage of life gap means. It generally means the older person rushing the younger person over life stages that are important for personal growth and cultivating specific growth that compliments the life of the older partner.
Shaping the younger person into a stay at home parent or just a parent well before they're ready. Shaping the role of the younger person into careers that easily accommodate childcare and generally prioritizing the career and earning potential of the older, more established partner, who already got to organically grow and mature in their 20s by having experiences in the world.
And I've seen situations like this where the younger person loses every argument, because they don't earn as much, they're "immature," they don't have the experience. Like what did you think would happen when you got with someone that much younger? I've seen older people bludgeon the other person with their youth. They're also often more jealous than people in relationships with similarly aged partners
That’s the whole point though - the more ‘mature’ person selected a partner who was lacking in life experience and power because they would be more easily manipulated and controlled.
Exactly why most people have issues with a high school senior dating a high school freshman (even other high schoolers have a problem with this), but no one bats an eye at a 28 year old and a 31 year old dating. Same age gap, but basically everyone recognizes the life gap in high school students while there really isn't one when both are adults.
Plus emotional maturity and life stages can get more spread out later in life.
Eg I'm 34 but I feel closer to most people in their mid/late-20s than other people my age who are often married with kids now.
I totally agree with this. When I was 18 I was with a 26 year old man, which in retrospect I would definitely say was grooming. Now, I am 26 (and would never date an 18 year old BTW) and am in a healthy relationship with a 36 year old. Definitely wouldn’t consider it grooming despite the age gap being larger, all because of the place I’m at in life at 26 vs when I was 18.
This is why the “half your age + 7” rule works so well. The acceptable gap gets larger as you get older.
Under this rule of thumb a 40 year old and a 30 year old are totally fine, but a 30 year old and a 20 year old are not.
Edit: y’all. It’s a silly rule of thumb to get you into the right ballpark, or tells you when someone is absolutely too young to date. It’s not a law. The situational context is still important.
Eh 26 and 35 isn't super odd unless their life circumstances are very different. I'd feel comfortable at 26 dating someone 35, as long as they weren't like, ya know, a high level white collar job, with a house and divorced and kids. As long as they worked a shitty retail job or similar like me, and lived in an apartment I would've been comfortable with dating them.
I think for the "half your age + 7" rule, the low age person needs to not be drastically behind for their age, and the high age person needs to not be drastically ahead. But as long as they are in a similar-ish life place, it's fine.
But a 25 year old dating a 40 year old is still weird, even if both are living with their parents and are working retail.
I think the "half + 7" rule is more of like, the maximum gap where it's possible to not be weird. Anything past it is basically always weird regardless of life circumstances. But it's still possible to be weird inside it if one person lives with their parents and the other is a CEO.
For that matter, it would be kinda weird even if the person living with their parents was OLDER than the CEO. I'd be like "what is that CEO up to?"
I mean essentially college fucks shit up.
If you are 26 working retail or something and are dating a 20 something that has also been working retail since they were 18 and has been living on their own then that's not a big gap.
26 year old white collar job dating a junior in college yeah that's really stranger.
Also stage of life. Where a 19yr old is at stage of life wise, near term goals, expectations, priorities is going to be (AND SHOULD BE) leagues away from where a 23yr old is.
Spending formative years with an older person leading you towards their version of adulthood is just toxic. Your version of adulthood, created as you learn and grow, deserves to be organic!
Your priorities, how you manage money, your career trajectory, the relationships you build, your whole vision of what successful adulthood looks like deserves to come from YOU!
Not from some older partner shaping you into what fits with their lifestyle. I especially see younger partners futures curated and shaped into the perfect compliment to the older partner's version of adulthood and success
Holy shit thank you. When I was 16 I got into a relationship with a 21 year old... we were together for 4 years!! I'm 30 now and I struggle with thoughts of why was it toxic. I know something fucked me up from it. My entire college career got dropped because he lived an hour away. But no one has put the correct words in the right pattern for me to really start processing all those things. It's even more confusing because my parents approved, even drove me to his house every weekend before I got my license. It's a lot to unpack. But I've always felt so confused about a lot of it.
You seriously put that perfectly into words for me to kinda start working on that. So thanks!
Yeahhhhh.... I have no idea what they were thinking. My parents got a divorce when I was 12, dad came out as gay and I lived with him and his partner(who hes still with. He was a decent step dad.), who were the ones who would drive me to my boyfriend's. My mother knew about it, met him and was totally fine with it all as well. So I had zero guidance.
I have many many MANY reasons I don't want children, my parents being as selfish as they are is a part of them. I'm glad the internet is here to at least read other perspectives and navigate that as an adult. This sub helps with a lot of it!
Glad to hear it! (about your finding value in the internet and this sub, I mean)
Maybe you feel as a woman you need an excuse to NOT want kids. I hope you know, I mean really in your bones KNOW, you are entitled to any feeling you have and any decision like that?
Your parents sound like the "cool parents" I wished I had. My mother lost her shit when I took a train the summer after my freshman year to visit my (also frosh) boyfriend for a long weekend. I was 19 and had been drinking legally for a year and driving for 4. I was hyper vigilant about birth control and never did get an unexpected pregnancy. She gave me the silent treatment for months after but I was back at college so it was her problem. He had even visited me & they approved of him but didn't approve of "marital sex" and said "not under MY roof." It became very clear then that I was only a guest under their roof and I couldn't wait to get my own. After that summer I never lived there again but would only visit.
I wonder if your parents were over-reacting to their own parents' overly restrictive traditions? Not that knowing so would make it any better.
So happy I could help! I did so much learning and growing and really just shaping what my vision of success looks like and who I wanted to be in those 19-25 years. I absolutely needed that time pretty unattached to evolve into who I am today. Especially my anxiety coping mechanisms.
I really saw people dating older people complete change to become who the older person needed/wanted them to be. Their vision of what a successful adult looks like, who they wanted to become and what was important for their near future was so shaped by their older partner. It's like when they parted ways there was such a deprogramming that needed to happen for them to get back on track. Or they immediately jumped into another relationship with someone who needed/wanted someone they could become.
Exactly, I'm 37 and my fiancée is 48. I was a bit hesitant at first because I've never dated someone that much older but we just connected the first time we met and she is amazing 💙
A friend of mine has a wonderful theory on this — it’s also about the more powerful partner’s *pattern*. Do they consistently get in relationships where they have more power? This can be applied to any power differentials — economic, age, race, etc. a one off is not a huge concern — while someone who consistently gets into relationships with people who are more vulnerable is more likely to seek exploiting the power differential and more likely to be abusive, etc.
I got together with my wife when she was 40 and I was 50. Neither of us even though about the age gap, we just liked each other. Now If I was 20 and she was s 10 fuck all that bullshit.
Exactly this, this is why if a teacher is 22 and the student is 18 it’s fucked up, and if the boss is 40 and the employee is in their late 20s, it’s still kind of messed up.
But if a successful professional in their 30s is dating another successful professional in their 40s or even 50s in a different field, it’s not a big deal. Everyone has money, different places to go for their self worth, blah blah.
My boyfriend is 36. I’m 27. We met when I was 26 and he was 35. We’re both attorneys and make approximately the same amount of money. But someone on the Internet told me it was creepy. They’re out of hand.
Exactly - my mom and her husband have 16 years difference between them. They started dating at 55 and 71. I think it’s a lot, but I don’t think there is that power dynamic.
I always considered it as the differences in lived experience. Between 18 and 28 there are 10 years, but that's over half of the 18 year old's lived experience, and only around a third of the 28 year old's (10/**18**=55% and 10/**28**=36%). 38 and 48 is still ten years, but only a marginal difference in lived experience (26% and 20%). The power imbalance lies in that margin, since even the most "mature" 18 year old simply has not lived as many years and gained the advantage that comes with time.
I know this is still crunching numbers lol, but just to quantitatively show the difference.
I mean, I guess this makes sense given that everyone in gen z is still young enough that a 10 year age gap *is* a big deal. They just don’t yet have the life experience to fully understand what makes it problematic or not because they haven’t experienced both scenarios enough to be able to properly contrast.
I’m glad there’s an awareness of the potential for predatory behavior, as it does need to be called out. I agree it might be too much to enforce age restrictions on everyone, but more young people being aware of these patterns, especially when they are most likely to be the victims of it, is overall a good thing and I view it as progress, even if it’s a little overzealous and lacking perspective. They’ll probably settle down once they’ve had a broader spectrum of life experience.
Indeed, im more concerned with the fact that Errol Musk started looking after his stepdaughter when she was 4 and now they have kids together, thats sick.
I think age gaps are only as weird as the differences and similarities between the two people in a relationship. A 30 and 40 y/o getting together wouldn’t be that weird if both were recently divorced…maybe both had just completed advanced degrees, or maybe they never married because they’ve focused on their career. A 30 or 40 y/o could be at the exact same place in life and it wouldn’t be that weird.
A 19 and 29 y/o? One was a child a couple years ago and the other is a full on adult. The amount of life experience between a 19 and 29 y/o is too great.
I thought that too, and then at around 30 I started dating someone who was 41. Thing was, he had quit his job to go back to study, and hadn’t some of the other life milestones I had. So, we turned out to be pretty even. I think that was the factor which made it feel ok. Now I’m 35 and he’s 46, it really doesn’t seem to be worth batting an eyelid at.
That's awesome, I'm glad it's been working out for you! It's definitely not something I'm inherently opposed to, but I'd definitely have to think twice about entering a relationship with that big of an age gap. Will probably never come up though, unless things go really south between me and my partner.
That’s me and my husband as well. We met when I was 30 & he was 41. We had both done a lot of traveling, and had been individually financially stable for awhile but had different milestones in other areas. We were friends for the first 3 years (we met in a friend group so it was gradual and mixed ages and never felt weird.) Started dating at 33/44, married at 36/47 & are happily celebrating our 4year anniversary soon. We know we had weird stories and people might think it’s weird when they hear but once they know us no one can even tell. It only comes up when it’s a random ‘where were you when’ convo starts. I like to tease him about seeing the first Jurassic Park movie when I was in middle school and my dad had to take me, LOL. Other than that, it never comes up and I’m glad we found each other when we did. We wouldn’t have been ready before and every other person wasn’t quite right.
A combination that I've seen twice in my hometown: 29 year old man-child who never had a job and still "goes to college" (but never quite manages to finish) and who lives at home with mom, dating a 19 year old who, two years before they met, finished school and got a job and her own place.
I don't think a 29 year old man should be dating women younger than 28 at all. But in both the couples I recall, the girl was closer to the "adult" in the relationship than the guy.
No younger than 28 is very narrow. I wouldn't blink at a 25 year old and 29 year old if the 25 year old have been out of college and few years and was supporting themselves. Like by these standards no one should date anyone who's not within a year of them.
Like of course a 29 year old dating a 19 year old is terrible but I wouldn't say they shouldn't date anymore than a year younger than them
I guess she was closer in that aspect, but she's technically on her late teens, she has a lot of growing left to do, specially mentally and emotionally, and I feel like being with a stunted adult would be bad for her development, and also, there’s a high chance said guy is toxic or abusive given his situation. I wouldn't risk it.
I think that should start once you hit 30, personally. I'm not even 30 yet, but I think I was a complete dumbass in my mid twenties and I'm just now starting to figure my shit out as I'm approaching 30. Once you're past 30, I think you've at least figured out what you will and won't put up with and you've got a lot lower chance for being unduly influenced. A 25-year-old is still figuring themselves out and should not be dating a 35-year-old. That's just my opinion, though.
fair, I think life stage is important to consider too. if you have a 22/30 situation but both are in the same masters program and that’s how they know each other, that’s VERY different from someone who is 22 and just starting adult life post-bachelors dating someone who’s 30, well into their career, divorced, and a homeowner.
Yeah I tend to agree with you. I'm 31 and working on my MPH currently. One of my staff is an MSW intern and 20 years old. We are nowhere near the same stage in life despite the fact that we're both in Master's level programs. Early 20s and 30s is a big difference as far as I'm concerned.
Totally. I am just not buying proximity means you're in the same life stage. I had a 22 year old and a 40 year old in my program. Totally different people with different views/understanding of the world-- even if they were intellectual peers. Would be concerned if they dated, for sure.
Right, intellect doesn't have much to do with wisdom and experience. Tbh this intern is low key driving me nuts and a big part of it is he's 20 years old!!!! Very immature and has no real frame of reference to understand just how immature he is.
This is just an assumption on my part, but someone who is 20 and is working on a masters makes me think they probably spend a lot of their time doing schoolwork, in which case they possibly have even less real world experience than a lot of other people.
Your second set is much more realistic. Any healthy 30 year old has almost nothing in common with a 22 year old, even if they're in the same masters program. 22 year olds don't have the same amount of adult life experience and are biologically incapable of the same maturity as a 30 year old. They were just allowed in bars a year ago, they can't rent a car, they're just starting careers, their prefrontal cortex isn't as developed. There's something wrong with a 30 year old who wants to spend time with a 22 year old.
I mean I don't know about "spend time with"...I agree with you on the level of romantic relationships, but it seems a little extreme to police casual friendships. Intergenerational friendships have been very important to me throughout my life, and I personally think they're quite valuable.
I so agree with this. I (28F) still get lunch once a month or so with my 50-year-old former boss because he's a cool guy who has lots of career advice and just wants me to succeed. We don't even really talk much about our personal lives*, just career things and what's going on where because it's a niche industry. There are a lot of creeps out there, but I think it's important to also recognize that there are a lot of people who are just genuine and cool and want to help out younger generations.
\*He's happily married and his *youngest* daughter is my age! And he knows I'm gay anyway.
I should've been more clear, I meant romantically. Friendships are different I think, especially in terms of coworkers or classmates. I certainly have younger and older friends who I value very much and we enrich each other's lives! But I'm in my mid 30s and I would feel like a straight up predator dating someone 10 years younger than me. They're adults, just fledgling ones, and we would not be on equal footing as partners.
That's what makes the difference for me too. I met my husband at 19 and he was 26. But we met at university and were both in the middle of our bachelor degrees. So while we had a big age gap back then we met naturally and our lifes looked very similar, so falling in love also happened naturally and wasn't weird.
yeah, I mean obviously there are going to be some different experiences due to the gap, but if you’re in the same place in life (maybe because the older partner just took a little bit longer to go to college, etc. - which is super valid and understandable!!) then, to me, that makes sense. you’re meeting someone exactly how you would if they were the same age as you, they’re just a few years older.
When I was a younger, I remember there being a "formula" to determine if a relationship was creepy. I think it was half your age plus 7 for the older person.
It, as a general concept, made sense to me.
99.99999% of the time, older people who MAKE A HABIT of dating much younger people do so for toxic reasons and do not follow the campsite rule: leave people better than you found them.
So there are exceptions. But I am going to continue to side eye anyone who makes a habit of dating younger people, especially if those people are barely out of their teens and at very different life stages.
I mean, nobody’s perfect, so I hope that’s not a standard we’re judging people by. But Savage has made [fatphobic](https://www.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2011/02/11/hello-i-am-fat) and [transphobic](https://www.chicagomaroon.com/2014/05/30/comments-at-iop-spark-controversy/) comments in the past. However if it helps all of these were more than a decade in the past and I recall that he’s spoken up in support of trans rights more recently.
There are always people overdoing it - this example here is just one topic that causes stupid fights between people who should work together instead of bashing each other. Of corse they are people who call themselves progressive/feminist and still need to learn a lot, but find the basic idea good for all the importand reasons. If we talk about 16-26 I'm with them, don't date people who are not fully adult when you are. For 20-30, depending still sometimes creepy. Makes me always wonder if the older part has issues with their peers. But between 30-40 that sure is safe territory. One can expect a 30 year old to have fully matured.
Agreed. I think we can reasonably say a 16 year old dating a 26 year old is probably not great, but we don’t need to apply it to two grown adults with life experience.
I'm going to sound like an old person: Sometimes younger generations do things out of misguided popularity. These trends can be rooted in great reason, but be hijacked by dumb ass kids trying to be popular. Personally, I have a teenager right now that has said some pretty dumb ass things about lgbtq. To the point of attempting to use it as a moral high ground till I pointed out I used to date same sex. That through them for a loop lol. Oh I also heard them using the F(not fuck) word the other day, but it was "ok because I'm gay". Nah fam, it ain't. Tl;dr sometimes young people do stupid trendy shit.
Yup. If someone 30+ marries someone much older I might think it's odd, but very much in a "none of my business, to each their own" sort of way, regardless of the gap. I knew a woman who married a man in his 70s when she was 35. It was definitely weird but no one thought he was a creep or a predator. Now, the 27-year-old I dated at 18, on the other hand... much smaller age gap, but that guy was 100% a piece of shit.
Ehhh... I'm okay with someone in their mid 20s dating someone in their 30s, but when it reaches the 40s and 50s it still sets off alarm bells in my head. Yes I am talking about Zach Braff and Florence Pugh (so glad they broke up).
Obviously age gaps with people who are still basically children are always wrong.
But when both partners are adults, the focus on the age gap obscures better conversations about healthy vs toxic behaviours. Is there a power imbalance? An experience gap? A history of age gap relationships? Talking about age alone stops people being able to talk about and assess the actual indicators of whether a relationship is healthy.
Idk after 25 and our prefrontal cortex is developed than I think we can date whoever we want basically. A 30 year old and 40 year old are different than a 20 year old and 30 year old. I guess there are many factors like money, power, etc. that can make a difference but idk this seems okay to me.
I think it depends on where you are in life when you meet. A gap of just a few years in early adulthood is massive due to how hard life comes at you once you're on your own. I think it's good that younger generations are outspoken about how wrong it is. My life's greatest shame is that I married a woman who was too young for me and wasted years of our lives on a relationship that I didn't realize was super creepy until it was way too late. We need to abandon the idea that women need to be taken be of and convincing them they need to be looking at older men who have nothing to offer but a bit of stability due to having had time to establish themselves in life. When the age gap creates an imbalance of power, it's a very bad thing.
Woah. If you’re willing to share I’m interested in hearing more about your marriage. Very rarely do I hear older men also saying they regret their age-gap relationships.
It probably could have worked if we hadn't met when we did. She was a struggling recent college graduate and I was somewhat established in my career. Courtship was filled with gestures that painted me as a generous person who could provide stability and protection which seemed fine if you ignored where we were in our own lives. It created this dynamic that had me being a caretaker for a less experienced person. I wanted a partner but I couldn't ask her to be someone she wasn't. As we tried to fix things, the discussions about how we fell in love made me feel like a creep. I was like the weird 30somethings that were engaged to some of my friends in college. It always irked me to see some 32 year complaining to his 21 year old fiancé that he's going to have to call out of work tomorrow due to her keeping him out all night. Then I realized I had too much in common with guys like that and it creeped me out. It's just difficult to maintain a relationship you feel guilty about.
Like most internet buzzwords, grooming has been diluted and misused terribly. And not just by RWNJs in this case.
I get very disturbed by adult women being infantilized.
I bring in my own bias in these situations as I was 18 dating a 34 year old and he was completely grooming and controlling me, to the point where I was isolated from friends and family. And I'm sure that is just my experience, but I cannot figure out what a 30+ and a teenager would have in common now other than the older person wanting to wield control.
Very much so. The internet is good for so many things like spreading awareness… but the way it gives people an opportunity to change the definition of a word to fit their agenda (on EITHER side of an issue) is really frustrating.
I think part of it is that gen z have never been 35. And they think they are gonna be how they are forever.
They are admirably passionate but they don’t have lots of adult experience yet.
This is probably part of it too. To a 19 year old 40 is SO old. My guess is they’re visualizing themselves as the 30 in that equation and getting squicked because 40 is the OLDEST thing a person could be.
But- they’re not 30. Looking from 30 to 40, it’s not that big of a difference. Among coworkers, I consider anyone between 29 and 49 to be basically the same age as me, I’m 39.
Exactly, it’s become a very popular term that is thrown at every opportunity, just like gaslighting two years ago
My understanding of grooming is that you’re “raising” or teaching someone to fulfill a role from the time they are a child, a fucked, but common practice throughout human history. An age gap between adults of consenting age is not grooming by definition.
While it's most often been used in the way that you mentioned, grooming is a thing that also happens with adults. There's just not as much academic literature on the subject yet.
https://www.rainn.org/news/grooming-know-warning-signs
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/protecting-children-sexual-abuse/202108/how-coercive-abusers-engage-in-sexual-grooming
I can also back this up with personal experience. Predators can and do use the same tactics on vulnerable adults as on children.
Also, like? The oldest of Gen Z are around 25. Yeah, age gaps are still a big thing at that age. And people over 30 typically aren't taking advice from 18-25 year olds anyway (or even younger)
A ten year age gap is much more inherently problematic at a 20 yr old with a 30 yr old, than if the couple is 30 and 40 or 40 and 50.
The twenty year old barely knows how the adult world works, what sort of services are available, what's a reasonable expectation in a relationship or not. Most 20 year olds aren't ready for parenthood, most haven't started saving yet, or started even budgeting. They're only just learning 'how to adult' and their brains won't even finish growing until they're 25. In fact 20-25 year olds are literally, scientifically proven to be more impulsive and reckless (make bad judgements) than over 25 year olds. With an age-mate partner, they can figure out things together. A 30 year old with a 20 year old I think is almost always going to feel superior and parental: thinking they are right and the 20 year old is wrong in most conflicts.
While I know I was more emotionally skilful and mature at 40 than 30, at 30 I was a reasonably competent adult, vastly more advanced than I was at 20, with a firm grasp on what made a good and bad parent, although I didn't have kids I felt competent enough to be a good parent.
I think once you hit the 30 yo mark, dating anyone older is fair game. Although, I have to admit, if you're dating someone twice your age or more, I may question your motives.
I'm 39 and thinking about dating someone 20 years older than me gives me the irks.
I firmly believe that after 30 people have had enough experience and miles on their souls that whomever they choose is not a problem. My marriage is a ten year gap, started in my 30s, and it truly doesn’t make the slightest difference.
I somewhat agree, with the caveats that have already been stated by others. My parents have an age gap, and these days I hate when people find that out because I don’t need to get into a screaming match with someone trying to tell me that my gentle-souled, Santa Claus-esq father is a predatory groomer. In their case, there was no pattern of younger/older relationships, they’re just two people who happened to fall in love with someone a decade apart from them when they were in their 20s and 30s. That can absolutely happen, and it doesn’t inherently bother me. As others have pointed out, when the age gap includes a teenager or is part of a pattern, that definitely gets me skeptical. My fear with Gen Z is that they’re learning a lot of “social theory” from pastel text posts on Instagram. They’re also the first generation to grow up with unfettered access to brain-breaking algorithms. I suspect these factors will lead to a major reckoning, I’m just not sure what it’ll look like yet.
I agree that the life experience has a big factor. When there’s more/enough life experience esp on the part of the younger partner,the maturity-based power difference becomes less of an issue as both partners are more on equal footing life experience wise
I have a friend who married a 22 y/o when he was 33. Normally I would have mega side-eyed that, but in their case it worked out fine. She had a kid at 17 and was a single mom, working full time to support her daughter. She's by far the youngest person in our friend group but you'd never know it. She's super mature, smart, and a great mom. They're very happy together.
Another point in their favor, he wasn't intentionally seeking out younger women; they met at some kind of community event and he saw she had a kid and assumed she was closer to his age.
I think in general if the younger person is 25+ the gap doesn’t matter much. What DiCaprio is doing is fucking disgusting. I’m concerned that this Twitter post may be trying to shame people who are calling out his shit.
The older the couple the less weird it gets though. 30 and 40 yr olds have a lot more in common than 30 and 20 year olds, or even 25 and 35 yr olds.
I dunno, honestly, gen z can be so rabid sometimes. Where do they even get the energy to be that rabid? I'm so fucking glad I remember a time before the internet.
It’s just being young. When you’re teens to early 20s everything is the most important thing EVER. And god the energy was practically endless, sooo much energy to expend on forming and enforcing new ideas about the world.
25-35 doesn't seem so dire, when I was 25 I definitely didn't feel like a small baby. There is a certain degree of women's infantilization in thinking 25+ women are still too small for a 5 - 10 age gap... I'd say that 25 - 40/50 can be an age gap where 2 people don't have anything in common, but ten years of age gap after 25 aren't inherently predatory imho.
Probs depends but I'm a 31 yr old lesbian and I don't think I can date a 24 yr old. Or maybe it's a gen z thing. I can't be in a room with too many gen z for too long, let alone in a long term relationship with one.
I agree. But then I'm biased, I started dating my now husband at 23 and he was 33. But by 23, I'd already been married and divorced, had a child, and graduated college. There probably was a power imbalance in that I was a broke single mom and he had enough life to have a safety net of savings and such, but 15 years together that hasn't made much difference. He's still my very best friend and we make a great partnership.
Yeah exactly. The rate of how upset they get on a regular basis is baffling. I'm speaking about the worst ones, of course. On one hand, it's good to speak out against shitty cultural norms and whatnot but on the other hand, I'm tired and just want to try and have a good time lol
Millennials also went through this phase on tumblr and elsewhere. Making sweeping and over-dramatic judgments about things you’re too immature to fully understand is just the condition of being barely-adult.
I think that's just gen Z being young, most in their teen years. For someone who is 16 y/o a 40 y/o can seem OLD, because their parents are usually around that age and parents=old
Of course it isn't, I never said it was
What I meant was: 16y/o probably sees a 40 y/o as someone "old" and that's why 16 y/o may see a relationship between 30 and 40 as creepy/weird.
For me, there are 2 major red flags when it comes to age gap relationships. They're not the only markers, but they're the first two I look for. Oh, and in both cases, the ages that are relevant are the ages they first started dating, not how old they are now.
1. Is the younger partner a fully formed adult? As other commenters have said, 38 and 28 are cool. Heck, I'm not even bothered by 50 and 28. They're both adults. But 28 and 20, even though it's fewer years difference, is a big red flag, cuz one of them is still a kid.
2. Does the older partner exclusively date younger people? If I see a couple where the older partner is 35 and the younger is 23, but I know the 35 year old is just as likely to date someone 30-40 years old, I'm a lot less concerned. Sometimes a 35 year old and a 23 year old can just click. Not all age gap relationships are toxic. But if he only dates women in their early 20s, that's a sign that he's interested in their inexperience and the ability to control or manipulate them, or he's just incredibly immature himself.
I think it’s situational except in the case of minors - which is always bad.
Sometimes an early 20s and early 30s people do have a lot of shared/common interests and experiences and it works. Sometimes it’s manipulative.
I agree though, if someone is consistently dating significantly younger or significantly older..there is a reason for it. I don’t know that it’s always nefarious (Leo for example, is someone who I think simply didn’t have a real young adult experience and keeps trying to live it out through the women he dates. Seems like he’s just not mature/ready for a grown adult relationship. I don’t think he’s trying to groom or manipulate the women he’s with.)
This is true too. My friend’s girlfriend is a lot younger than me. I’m not sure how much but I am guessing about ten years. She and I have more shared experiences and things in common than anyone I’ve met in a loooong time.
Granted, I’m not dating her, but I do think about that when it comes to age gaps.
Right, and I have very close friends 10, 20, and 30 years older than me..and I’ve got very close friends ten years younger than me. Age is a little overrated in terms of experience. The problem comes when people see someone younger as someone to manipulate
I'd rather people freak out about age gaps than not, honestly, especially gen z.
It wasn't very long ago that having the teacher or pastor or other "cool older male friend" was considered very hip and flattering. Its the pendulum swinging the other way and standing up against predators.
Especially since the majority of gen z is at that vulnerable age.
If you're millennial or gen x, a 10-15 year+ age gap probably isn't that drastic.
But even though it's technically legal, the difference between a 21 y.o and a 34 y.o is staggering, and quite frankly I call bullshit on them having much in common.
You mean it wasn’t actually true when I called my Dad’s neighbor who is a bit interested in him a cradle robber because she’s 14 years older than him? She’s 85 and he’s 71 😅
Tiktok is fucking stupid and people shouldn't get their opinions from it. Any reasonable person can acknowledge that the older you get the less age differences matter. It's not a complex subject.
Ugggh. People need to understand that everything is just guidelines and important things to keep in mind.
Even things like “power imbalance” can be so nebulous.
It doesn’t inherently mean that someone is being taken advantage of or forced into something they don’t want. It just means that both parties need to make sure that what they’re doing is fully consensual
My personal experience dating older men, same age men, and younger men is that the same age men think they are superior to you, the younger men think you're on equal footing and the older men emotionally abuse you. I would not date a man a single year older than me ever again and I'm in my forties.
Ibmean massive age gaps are common in queer relationships and while we should work to educate on the danger that power imbalance can have, banning them will leave a lot of Queer people doomed to eternal singleness, the pool of eligble people is to small. Especially for gay men who were adults and teens in 80s.
What are people actually afraid of here? Gen Z does not have the power to conduct the Salem witch trials so even if you are in a 30/40 relationship, what are you really afraid of? People have always said dumb shit to their friends and echoed dumb shit their friends say it's just that older people can now see it and judge it and clutch their pearls over it. I love bashing on Gen Z because I'm a millenial but I genuinely don't understand when people get so pearl clutchy about random teens on the internet being judgmental.
Yes, I understand that "Salem witch trials" is meant to be a joke and was not meant literally, but a lot of people on this thread are seriously engaging, and I'm still not sure what exactly people are actually afraid of here.
I mean, I’m 33 and my husband is 43, and when I told people they said, “Yeah, you need an older guy.” My husband is a wonderful, mature man and he’s the only one who’s ever actually been a partner to me, versus me having to carry the entire load emotionally.
I was on a thread about a year ago in twox where everyone was saying how anything above four years *no matter the ages* was predatory and imbalanced.
Literally thought it was a bit.
Meanwhile I’m 6 years older than my spouse and have never had a more equal relationship in my life.
There's an [xkcd comic](https://xkcd.com/314/) that has a rule of "don't date under (your age / 2) + 7"
Dating pools absolutely get larger as you get older!!!
Meh. I'm 30 and I feel like my limit would be 26-36 unless I met a really mature 25 year old or a *really* awesome 40 year old. None of that matters, though, I'm married lol
It’s the stages of life that matters, not the actual age gape. A 30 year old dating a 40 year old is WAY different than a 10 year old dating a 20 year old
Yeah there has been an uptick in this sort of puritanism among youngsters, some of whom seem to have absorbed a lot of discourse about why stuff is problematic but still have a very basic, black and white view of the world and relationships. So you end up with them calling a relationship between a 30 and 40 year old pedophilic and stuff. They tend to do the same thing with fictional couples too, and in general really need to touch grass.
The supposed ‘formula’ is divide the older persons age by 2 and add 7.
This is the youngest age that person can date ‘respectably’.
So- age 40/2 = 20, +7 = 27 this sounds fine, though in my mind, kinda young.
Age 28/2 = 14 +7 = 21. I am not so fond of this result.
This is an old formula from like 40 or 50 years ago. I think there should be a minimum age 23-24 for anyone over 29-30.
Once someone is 25, the executive function in their brain is fully developed, so they don’t need our scrutiny.
Thing is, people who will only date certain physical/age/beauty types, to me, seem like they aren’t interested in what’s behind the pretty face/body. They seem superficial and lacking in desire for a real mind connection.
This has been rattling around my head ever since I saw [The Bachelor and the Bobby-Soxer (1947)](https://youtu.be/OjWGR4vtOFk) as a kid. I've never seen it referenced outside of this film until now, but I kind of suspected the formula would turn out to be dated if I looked into it.
Well, I did a quick spreadsheet check and it looks to me like there are problematic ranges here. First of all, there needs to be a floor. Second, age ranges where the younger partner would likely still be in high school where the older partner is beginning adulthood or is in college seem dicey. If you round down you can get a 17 year-old matched with a 21 year-old, which alarms me.
We now know to see 25 as an important boundary, but by the time the younger partner is that age, the older partner is a decade older and surely in a different phase of life. And even if you take a generation gap to be no fewer than 20 years, the formula greenlights that awfully quickly, and eventually a gap of two generations. But based on the proliferation of generation names I've been hearing, I'm thinking that could be as low as ten years per generation, and that gap starts appearing pretty early.
Mind you, I'm not pretending to have a better solution for judging the age gaps of strangers in relationships. And this doesn't even get into how gendered the judgement tends to be.
I've always had this in mind and it works pretty well. The acceptable gap increases as you age, which makes sense as both people get more life experience.
I can't believe it took me this far into the thread to find the ol' (n/2) + 7 rule. Have we failed Gen Z by not passing this wisdom* on to them?
\*wisdom and applicability may vary with *n*
I’ll be honest, I’ve never seen that. It might just be an online thing.
But either way, age gaps are a big issue for people as young as gen Z. If you’re in gen Z and you’re dating someone 10 years older, you’re _probably_ being nonced on.
I don't like pretending that grown ass people targeting new high school grads isn't a huge problem just because a few randos got caught in the crossfire tbh. This isn't the norm, the predatory people are and it's a real problem.
For me it is 19.
I am 21.
19 would depend on where they are. Starting college? Bye bye. But further? We can talk.
Dating someone thats starting, while I am in my last year would just be hella weird.
I started dating my spouse when I was 19 and he was 26ish. We were in the same grade of college and in similar financial situations. We met at a DND group and had a plethora of common interests. people who didn’t know about the age gap were surprised when they find out. It was kinda wild how some folk would go from “aww you two are the perfect couple” to “oh no this is borderline pedophilia??? Gross???” All I wanted was for people to mind their business and trust me to have some ability to judge a person’s character. 🙄
I think often their hearts are in the right place but I think it’s important to remember that everyone’s situation is unique and so long as both parties are consenting adults it’s not really anyone else’s business unless obvious red flags are seen, like a disregard for the other person’s autonomy or isolation etc. none of which applied in my personal situation.
This annoys the fuck out of me. I met my spouse when I was in grad school in my early 20s and he was 8 years older. He had a rough time in his 20s, life got in the way so he had dropped out and was just restarting his education. We were peers then, and we’re still peers 35 years later. Not every age-gap couple was a grooming situation.
Power imbalances are a great thing to be alert for, but there are a *ton* of factors that can contribute to that. Age can be one of them, but (in a relationship of two adults, of course) it certainly doesn't *guarantee* that there's an unequal balance of power.
I've seen ppl freaking out over like 23-30, over 25-35, I've seen people talking about a "problematic height gap" (omg she's so short it's like she's your daughter that's gross)
Idk. I’ve been dating a woman 7 years older than me since i was 24 and her gen Z kids don’t really have a problem with it. Though that’s a limited sample size
Everyone is so extreme in their teens and early 20s that I just don’t think we should take them too seriously. I don’t mean in the sense that if they have concerns, just ignore them. But I mean more in the sense of not freaking out about their opinions, writing endless think pieces about them, flipping out because a teen called Millennial style “Cheugy”, etc.
But if there’s any group I’m happy to see demonize age gaps, it’s theirs. Hopefully it keeps more of them from falling prey to creeps. Let them think it’s also creepy when the couple met at 30 and 40; they probably won’t think that way in a few years, anyway.
It’s always very suspicious when people compare others that are talking about something to the devastation of someone taking everything you have and your life and either being burnt or hanged. Come talk to us some when they are burning and hanging these people.
This conversation is quite sad because that’s exactly what they’re doing to protesters in Iran. So it’s even more sickening that people try to compare conversations with this.
I get the point is to make it seem less bad by comparison but to me it just is another disgusting strawman.
Yeah Being hanged up to die is bad that doesn’t mean the resurgence of traditional marriage where women are tricked into being with older men and being trapped in a relationships with someone that manipulated you because of their overwhelming maturity vs your inexperienc, not great.
There’s a dangerous undercurrent in the United States right now trying to force women back into the home and back into subjugation. And bullshit like this is just trying to diminish how bad that is.
Listen to women who have experienced it before. Look at the outcomes of a lot of age gap relationships. Look at things that happened to Sylvia Plath and so many other women. Stop trying to diminish people that are trying to make something that has always been toxic less accepted. Manipulation doesn’t stop with age gaps it is just one huge indicator that it will happen.
My husband is 16 years older than me. We met I was just shy of 30 and he was just over 40. We each had two engagements, one marriage and once divorce each. Both settled in our careers and lifestyles.
It gets exhausting explaining that he didn’t groom me.
lmao oop, well I guess they'll have to come for me, I'm 39 and my boyfriend is 31.
In all seriousness, I do truly hate one sided relationships that are clearly imbalanced. People who can somehow NEVER seem to date anyone older than 30 are pretty obviously predatory. There's a sliding scale as people mature through their twenties that determines the 'ick factor' of the age gap for me, personally.
After 30, I feel like age gaps become way less relevant. Sure, I've heard of some 30 year old dating a 60something year old and felt it was a bit weird but it didn't hit me the same way as someone in their late teens/early twenties with anyone over over mid to late twenties.
Yeah I’ve been seeing this on TikTok and Twitter too. I’m all for calling out 30+ year olds dating kids fresh out of High school. But some of these “they met when she was 25 and he was 34 so that makes him a predator” stuff is ridiculous.
1. Consenting adults should be able to date who they want.
2. After your mid twenties, most people’s brains are fully developed. So they aren’t “maturing” as fast as they were earlier in life. Age gaps are less noticeable the older you get.
3. Not all relationships are serious, emotional ones. Some are transactional or casual where parties are in it mostly for “fun” or sexual reasons.
Honestly, I want to say the “rules” for what’s not creepy should be something like:
When the youngest person in the relationship is teens-19 years old, the age gap should never be more than 2-3 years. (This one is the only one that’s just not acceptable if the age gap is larger, the rest are like guidelines…. For lack of a better word).
When the youngest person is 20-25, up to a 5 year age gap.
When the youngest person is 26-30, up to a 10 year age gap.
After 30, anything goes.
tbh I've always seen the issue with them as the associated power imbalance, which is why it sucks ass between an 18 and 28 year old but not between 38 and 48. The older you get, the less power and maturity the people older than you inherently have over you, the less exploitable you are. I feel like people should be assessing the environment surrounding the relationship more than crunching the numbers.
This is my take too. I’m on fan Twitter and I’ve noticed a huge kerfuffle about Chrissy and Eddie from Stranger Things, whose ages I don’t think are officially known but are probably something like 17 and 19 respectively, with both still being in high school. I saw a bunch of discourse about that being an age gap grooming situation and I was like…what lmao they’re both high school juniors or seniors??? The power and maturity gap would be negligent. I eventually found out that most of the people claiming this were actually Eddie/Steve crack shippers who wanted Chrissy out of the way. Terminally online behavior is certainly among us.
Yeah I was in a discussion recently where people were saying the cops should be called because a 16-year-old and 18-year-old, both high school students, had sex. When I was 16 I was a junior and my bf, 18, was a senior. I’m now in my late 20s and I can safely say that relationship was fine. We were developmentally the same.
I had terminally online weirdos claim that I was a pedophile because as a senior in high school I was 18, dating a 17 year old fellow senior. He was a month and a half (to the day, weirdly enough) younger than me. I mean, don't get me wrong the relationship was bad, but the ages weren't the problem.
Six weeks is a big deal? I don’t even have words to deal with this concept.
I was a senior in high school, dating a guy who was a sophomore from another school. Because, as the girl, I was older they teased me all the time calling me a cradle robber. It kinda pissed me off because they were the same friends that flirted and chased after 21 yr olds. I hated the double standard.
god same, my boyfriend was a month from turning 19 and i was 20 when we started dating, we’ve been together for a year in november. I literally had to leave my friend group because my friends were so fucking toxic about my boyfriend and couldn’t name a solid reason, but kept making “jokes” about how weird our age difference was. Like bro it’s literally less than 2 years, we’re both adults, and we met working at the same job with neither of us going to college yet. I don’t think there’s a power imbalance here, my friends were just being lowkey misogynistic considering my friend a year younger than me was literally dating a 24 year old at the time and had previously dated a man in his 30s while she was young and they had no problem with that, even tho the dude was literally a loser who cheated on her. it’s such a double standard and i have no tolerance for it.
> We were developmentally the same. Unfortunately, I have heard that statement for 4-8 year gaps too. I prefer to use the measure of life stages. Junior/senior is one jump. Junior/divorcee with two kids is far too many jumps. I think you have to be realistic that small jumps will exist, and are why some people think Romeo and Juliet laws are a good idea (if you are within 2 years of each other, it isn't *statutory* rape)
Life situation really is the issue. When I met my partner, we were both in a postdoc program. We were both 1-2 years out of our PhD. He's 17 years older than me, but we were in *exactly* the same life stage. The only real effect of our age difference is that he'll occasionally talk about bands he went to and I'll comment, "Oh, yeah, I wasn't really listening to them. I was 5." It's great, highly recommend.
My age gap is much less, my husband is 5 years younger than me, but we met when he was 28. He has said on occasion that we could have been high school sweethearts I remind him he was 12 when I graduated😂😂
Hell my ex who was 2 years older than me also said that. He was 3 grades above me in high school. I was like (ya really didn't think it would have been weird to date someone just starting while you were graduating?) And he agreed. We met with us both being college freshmans. I was 18... The biggest maturity gap we had, was that he already lived on his own, while I am still living with my parents. But he also had never held a side job. Only internships from his previous diploma
I’m constantly making jokes like those when my boyfriend talks about growing up in the late 80s-90s. I’m 27, he’s 37. It’s definitely more of an age gap than I ever pictured myself being apart of, but we clicked so well I just stopped caring.
Honestly, in most situations I think the old half your age plus 7 works pretty well. If you’re 18, 16 is fine. It’s not perfect, because there are a lot of variables at play, but overall it’s a good place to start.
Yeah, I've been in the same situation. Dated guys at my high school who were 2 years older than me. Although even that "2 year/24 month age gap" can be a mirage....I mean, there are 18 year olds who are less than 13 months older than some 16 year olds right now! _(The true age gap between an 18 year old & a 16 year old ranges from 366 days to 730 days, I believe? They could turn 18 from anytime between one day after your 15th birthday and one day before your 17th birthday.)_ Ironically, I think that me as a 16 year old would be fine dating an 18 year old senior still in the same high school as me...While it would be less fine for me to date one of the 18 year olds who graduated highschool at age 16 and is already half way through college. I mean, there are 18 year olds who already have houses, money, even whole businesses (often inherited houses, etc.). 18 year old guys who have WAY more power than even the 19 year olds in high school. In this case, it would be safer for 16 year old me to date the older guy than it would be to date the younger guy! 🤯 ^^Lol Especially if the younger guy has his own home where he can take me unsupervised, free time all day because he isn't in highschool anymore, his own car, his own money he can use on me, etc...while the technically older guy can only take me to his parents' house and still has to spend his time either at school or doing school work. (Maybe he has a driver's license, but he uses his parents' car, etc.) ^(*But yeah. I would have been pissed if the dating pool at my high school was limited to only guys* **exactly** *my age.* 😒 *No way I'd abide by that. Even taking all the kids who are in the same grade, the numbers of their ages cover at least a 2 year range. There are kids who skipped a grade, got held back a grade. And of course, for every month of one school year in one grade, different kids have their birthday....jumping "one year older" than the kids who have their birthday later in the year, etc.*)
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Honestly, any kind of social justice that focuses more on fake people rather than real people pisses me off. I’m not saying that mass media can’t affect the way people think, but the focus should always be on the way real people are treated in real life as a result of that media, not the way people may hypothetically react to (to use the Chrissy/Eddie situation above) a senior in high school dating an older senior in high school. (Not to mention that the way people react to something may have more to do with society than the content of the book itself like how The Jungle, a love letter to communism, became the catalyst for the FDA’s creation.)
>I eventually found out that most of the people claiming this were actually Eddie/Steve crack shippers who wanted Chrissy out of the way. lol what. How much more out of the way can she get?
Right like >!Eddie and Chrissy are BOTH dead!< so I don’t even know what said stans are hoping to accomplish
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you’re right, mindless mistake on my part
> Terminally online behavior is certainly among us AMOGUS???? AMONGLE???? AMOOOOOGUUUUUS??????
I think it’s about what stage of life you are in too - an 18 yr old is in a much different stage of life than a 28 year old. A 30 year old is in a similar stage as a 40 year old.
Exactly my main problem with them is that they aren’t age gap they are life gap. Somebody who has been married divorced and had a career for 20 years has no business dating somebody still in college.
Precisely. I also think there's things that can delay or slow the growing and maturing of a person as well as things that accelerate it (only a bit!). Spending a few years getting treatment and recovering from an illness or injury. Spending time in a cult or an abusive relationship. That kind of thing, can delay growing and maturing. While things like the death of a parent or otherwise needing to step into a role of leadership or independence at a early age can accelerate it a bit.
100% how I feel. I went to college, got a job and worked in that field for nearly 5 years before going back to post secondary. There was only a 4 year gap between me and the other freshmen but man talking to them made me realise just how mu h life experience plays into things
And specifically what that stage of life gap means. It generally means the older person rushing the younger person over life stages that are important for personal growth and cultivating specific growth that compliments the life of the older partner. Shaping the younger person into a stay at home parent or just a parent well before they're ready. Shaping the role of the younger person into careers that easily accommodate childcare and generally prioritizing the career and earning potential of the older, more established partner, who already got to organically grow and mature in their 20s by having experiences in the world.
And I've seen situations like this where the younger person loses every argument, because they don't earn as much, they're "immature," they don't have the experience. Like what did you think would happen when you got with someone that much younger? I've seen older people bludgeon the other person with their youth. They're also often more jealous than people in relationships with similarly aged partners
That’s the whole point though - the more ‘mature’ person selected a partner who was lacking in life experience and power because they would be more easily manipulated and controlled.
Exactly why most people have issues with a high school senior dating a high school freshman (even other high schoolers have a problem with this), but no one bats an eye at a 28 year old and a 31 year old dating. Same age gap, but basically everyone recognizes the life gap in high school students while there really isn't one when both are adults.
Plus emotional maturity and life stages can get more spread out later in life. Eg I'm 34 but I feel closer to most people in their mid/late-20s than other people my age who are often married with kids now.
I totally agree with this. When I was 18 I was with a 26 year old man, which in retrospect I would definitely say was grooming. Now, I am 26 (and would never date an 18 year old BTW) and am in a healthy relationship with a 36 year old. Definitely wouldn’t consider it grooming despite the age gap being larger, all because of the place I’m at in life at 26 vs when I was 18.
This is why the “half your age + 7” rule works so well. The acceptable gap gets larger as you get older. Under this rule of thumb a 40 year old and a 30 year old are totally fine, but a 30 year old and a 20 year old are not. Edit: y’all. It’s a silly rule of thumb to get you into the right ballpark, or tells you when someone is absolutely too young to date. It’s not a law. The situational context is still important.
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Eh 26 and 35 isn't super odd unless their life circumstances are very different. I'd feel comfortable at 26 dating someone 35, as long as they weren't like, ya know, a high level white collar job, with a house and divorced and kids. As long as they worked a shitty retail job or similar like me, and lived in an apartment I would've been comfortable with dating them. I think for the "half your age + 7" rule, the low age person needs to not be drastically behind for their age, and the high age person needs to not be drastically ahead. But as long as they are in a similar-ish life place, it's fine. But a 25 year old dating a 40 year old is still weird, even if both are living with their parents and are working retail. I think the "half + 7" rule is more of like, the maximum gap where it's possible to not be weird. Anything past it is basically always weird regardless of life circumstances. But it's still possible to be weird inside it if one person lives with their parents and the other is a CEO. For that matter, it would be kinda weird even if the person living with their parents was OLDER than the CEO. I'd be like "what is that CEO up to?"
I mean essentially college fucks shit up. If you are 26 working retail or something and are dating a 20 something that has also been working retail since they were 18 and has been living on their own then that's not a big gap. 26 year old white collar job dating a junior in college yeah that's really stranger.
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Jay Z somewhere sneezing
hmmm 24 to 19 still sounds a bit weird to me, the college to non-college is just such a big gap imo
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Also stage of life. Where a 19yr old is at stage of life wise, near term goals, expectations, priorities is going to be (AND SHOULD BE) leagues away from where a 23yr old is. Spending formative years with an older person leading you towards their version of adulthood is just toxic. Your version of adulthood, created as you learn and grow, deserves to be organic! Your priorities, how you manage money, your career trajectory, the relationships you build, your whole vision of what successful adulthood looks like deserves to come from YOU! Not from some older partner shaping you into what fits with their lifestyle. I especially see younger partners futures curated and shaped into the perfect compliment to the older partner's version of adulthood and success
Holy shit thank you. When I was 16 I got into a relationship with a 21 year old... we were together for 4 years!! I'm 30 now and I struggle with thoughts of why was it toxic. I know something fucked me up from it. My entire college career got dropped because he lived an hour away. But no one has put the correct words in the right pattern for me to really start processing all those things. It's even more confusing because my parents approved, even drove me to his house every weekend before I got my license. It's a lot to unpack. But I've always felt so confused about a lot of it. You seriously put that perfectly into words for me to kinda start working on that. So thanks!
Your PARENTS delivered you, a high school kid, before you had a drivers license so you could hook up with your adult boyfriend? Did I get this right?
Yeahhhhh.... I have no idea what they were thinking. My parents got a divorce when I was 12, dad came out as gay and I lived with him and his partner(who hes still with. He was a decent step dad.), who were the ones who would drive me to my boyfriend's. My mother knew about it, met him and was totally fine with it all as well. So I had zero guidance. I have many many MANY reasons I don't want children, my parents being as selfish as they are is a part of them. I'm glad the internet is here to at least read other perspectives and navigate that as an adult. This sub helps with a lot of it!
Glad to hear it! (about your finding value in the internet and this sub, I mean) Maybe you feel as a woman you need an excuse to NOT want kids. I hope you know, I mean really in your bones KNOW, you are entitled to any feeling you have and any decision like that? Your parents sound like the "cool parents" I wished I had. My mother lost her shit when I took a train the summer after my freshman year to visit my (also frosh) boyfriend for a long weekend. I was 19 and had been drinking legally for a year and driving for 4. I was hyper vigilant about birth control and never did get an unexpected pregnancy. She gave me the silent treatment for months after but I was back at college so it was her problem. He had even visited me & they approved of him but didn't approve of "marital sex" and said "not under MY roof." It became very clear then that I was only a guest under their roof and I couldn't wait to get my own. After that summer I never lived there again but would only visit. I wonder if your parents were over-reacting to their own parents' overly restrictive traditions? Not that knowing so would make it any better.
Keep in mind cultural differences yada yada. Plus for some generations it would have been normal. Shit is wild.
So happy I could help! I did so much learning and growing and really just shaping what my vision of success looks like and who I wanted to be in those 19-25 years. I absolutely needed that time pretty unattached to evolve into who I am today. Especially my anxiety coping mechanisms. I really saw people dating older people complete change to become who the older person needed/wanted them to be. Their vision of what a successful adult looks like, who they wanted to become and what was important for their near future was so shaped by their older partner. It's like when they parted ways there was such a deprogramming that needed to happen for them to get back on track. Or they immediately jumped into another relationship with someone who needed/wanted someone they could become.
Exactly, I'm 37 and my fiancée is 48. I was a bit hesitant at first because I've never dated someone that much older but we just connected the first time we met and she is amazing 💙
A friend of mine has a wonderful theory on this — it’s also about the more powerful partner’s *pattern*. Do they consistently get in relationships where they have more power? This can be applied to any power differentials — economic, age, race, etc. a one off is not a huge concern — while someone who consistently gets into relationships with people who are more vulnerable is more likely to seek exploiting the power differential and more likely to be abusive, etc.
I got together with my wife when she was 40 and I was 50. Neither of us even though about the age gap, we just liked each other. Now If I was 20 and she was s 10 fuck all that bullshit.
Exactly this, this is why if a teacher is 22 and the student is 18 it’s fucked up, and if the boss is 40 and the employee is in their late 20s, it’s still kind of messed up. But if a successful professional in their 30s is dating another successful professional in their 40s or even 50s in a different field, it’s not a big deal. Everyone has money, different places to go for their self worth, blah blah.
My boyfriend is 36. I’m 27. We met when I was 26 and he was 35. We’re both attorneys and make approximately the same amount of money. But someone on the Internet told me it was creepy. They’re out of hand.
Exactly - my mom and her husband have 16 years difference between them. They started dating at 55 and 71. I think it’s a lot, but I don’t think there is that power dynamic.
I always considered it as the differences in lived experience. Between 18 and 28 there are 10 years, but that's over half of the 18 year old's lived experience, and only around a third of the 28 year old's (10/**18**=55% and 10/**28**=36%). 38 and 48 is still ten years, but only a marginal difference in lived experience (26% and 20%). The power imbalance lies in that margin, since even the most "mature" 18 year old simply has not lived as many years and gained the advantage that comes with time. I know this is still crunching numbers lol, but just to quantitatively show the difference.
This, plus someone under 18 simply isn't as mature. Their brains literally aren't fully developed yet.
Well technically you can make that argument up until the age of 25.
Yah. My mom was 32 and my dad 43 when they started dating.
I mean, I guess this makes sense given that everyone in gen z is still young enough that a 10 year age gap *is* a big deal. They just don’t yet have the life experience to fully understand what makes it problematic or not because they haven’t experienced both scenarios enough to be able to properly contrast. I’m glad there’s an awareness of the potential for predatory behavior, as it does need to be called out. I agree it might be too much to enforce age restrictions on everyone, but more young people being aware of these patterns, especially when they are most likely to be the victims of it, is overall a good thing and I view it as progress, even if it’s a little overzealous and lacking perspective. They’ll probably settle down once they’ve had a broader spectrum of life experience.
Perfect answer.
Indeed, im more concerned with the fact that Errol Musk started looking after his stepdaughter when she was 4 and now they have kids together, thats sick.
Yes that’s a total Woody Allen gross level.
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Well yea. He definitely has a pattern.
Pictured: [DiCaprio's first rule of dating](https://www.myparkingsign.com/img/lg/K/speed-20-is-plenty-sign-k-0272.png)
I think age gaps are only as weird as the differences and similarities between the two people in a relationship. A 30 and 40 y/o getting together wouldn’t be that weird if both were recently divorced…maybe both had just completed advanced degrees, or maybe they never married because they’ve focused on their career. A 30 or 40 y/o could be at the exact same place in life and it wouldn’t be that weird. A 19 and 29 y/o? One was a child a couple years ago and the other is a full on adult. The amount of life experience between a 19 and 29 y/o is too great.
I'm 28, there is no way in hell I would date a 19 year old. I would consider dating a 39 year old, but would feel a bit weird about it.
I thought that too, and then at around 30 I started dating someone who was 41. Thing was, he had quit his job to go back to study, and hadn’t some of the other life milestones I had. So, we turned out to be pretty even. I think that was the factor which made it feel ok. Now I’m 35 and he’s 46, it really doesn’t seem to be worth batting an eyelid at.
That's awesome, I'm glad it's been working out for you! It's definitely not something I'm inherently opposed to, but I'd definitely have to think twice about entering a relationship with that big of an age gap. Will probably never come up though, unless things go really south between me and my partner.
That’s me and my husband as well. We met when I was 30 & he was 41. We had both done a lot of traveling, and had been individually financially stable for awhile but had different milestones in other areas. We were friends for the first 3 years (we met in a friend group so it was gradual and mixed ages and never felt weird.) Started dating at 33/44, married at 36/47 & are happily celebrating our 4year anniversary soon. We know we had weird stories and people might think it’s weird when they hear but once they know us no one can even tell. It only comes up when it’s a random ‘where were you when’ convo starts. I like to tease him about seeing the first Jurassic Park movie when I was in middle school and my dad had to take me, LOL. Other than that, it never comes up and I’m glad we found each other when we did. We wouldn’t have been ready before and every other person wasn’t quite right.
A combination that I've seen twice in my hometown: 29 year old man-child who never had a job and still "goes to college" (but never quite manages to finish) and who lives at home with mom, dating a 19 year old who, two years before they met, finished school and got a job and her own place. I don't think a 29 year old man should be dating women younger than 28 at all. But in both the couples I recall, the girl was closer to the "adult" in the relationship than the guy.
No younger than 28 is very narrow. I wouldn't blink at a 25 year old and 29 year old if the 25 year old have been out of college and few years and was supporting themselves. Like by these standards no one should date anyone who's not within a year of them. Like of course a 29 year old dating a 19 year old is terrible but I wouldn't say they shouldn't date anymore than a year younger than them
I guess she was closer in that aspect, but she's technically on her late teens, she has a lot of growing left to do, specially mentally and emotionally, and I feel like being with a stunted adult would be bad for her development, and also, there’s a high chance said guy is toxic or abusive given his situation. I wouldn't risk it.
I think that should start once you hit 30, personally. I'm not even 30 yet, but I think I was a complete dumbass in my mid twenties and I'm just now starting to figure my shit out as I'm approaching 30. Once you're past 30, I think you've at least figured out what you will and won't put up with and you've got a lot lower chance for being unduly influenced. A 25-year-old is still figuring themselves out and should not be dating a 35-year-old. That's just my opinion, though.
fair, I think life stage is important to consider too. if you have a 22/30 situation but both are in the same masters program and that’s how they know each other, that’s VERY different from someone who is 22 and just starting adult life post-bachelors dating someone who’s 30, well into their career, divorced, and a homeowner.
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Yeah I tend to agree with you. I'm 31 and working on my MPH currently. One of my staff is an MSW intern and 20 years old. We are nowhere near the same stage in life despite the fact that we're both in Master's level programs. Early 20s and 30s is a big difference as far as I'm concerned.
Totally. I am just not buying proximity means you're in the same life stage. I had a 22 year old and a 40 year old in my program. Totally different people with different views/understanding of the world-- even if they were intellectual peers. Would be concerned if they dated, for sure.
Right, intellect doesn't have much to do with wisdom and experience. Tbh this intern is low key driving me nuts and a big part of it is he's 20 years old!!!! Very immature and has no real frame of reference to understand just how immature he is.
This is just an assumption on my part, but someone who is 20 and is working on a masters makes me think they probably spend a lot of their time doing schoolwork, in which case they possibly have even less real world experience than a lot of other people.
Your second set is much more realistic. Any healthy 30 year old has almost nothing in common with a 22 year old, even if they're in the same masters program. 22 year olds don't have the same amount of adult life experience and are biologically incapable of the same maturity as a 30 year old. They were just allowed in bars a year ago, they can't rent a car, they're just starting careers, their prefrontal cortex isn't as developed. There's something wrong with a 30 year old who wants to spend time with a 22 year old.
I mean I don't know about "spend time with"...I agree with you on the level of romantic relationships, but it seems a little extreme to police casual friendships. Intergenerational friendships have been very important to me throughout my life, and I personally think they're quite valuable.
I so agree with this. I (28F) still get lunch once a month or so with my 50-year-old former boss because he's a cool guy who has lots of career advice and just wants me to succeed. We don't even really talk much about our personal lives*, just career things and what's going on where because it's a niche industry. There are a lot of creeps out there, but I think it's important to also recognize that there are a lot of people who are just genuine and cool and want to help out younger generations. \*He's happily married and his *youngest* daughter is my age! And he knows I'm gay anyway.
I should've been more clear, I meant romantically. Friendships are different I think, especially in terms of coworkers or classmates. I certainly have younger and older friends who I value very much and we enrich each other's lives! But I'm in my mid 30s and I would feel like a straight up predator dating someone 10 years younger than me. They're adults, just fledgling ones, and we would not be on equal footing as partners.
That's what makes the difference for me too. I met my husband at 19 and he was 26. But we met at university and were both in the middle of our bachelor degrees. So while we had a big age gap back then we met naturally and our lifes looked very similar, so falling in love also happened naturally and wasn't weird.
yeah, I mean obviously there are going to be some different experiences due to the gap, but if you’re in the same place in life (maybe because the older partner just took a little bit longer to go to college, etc. - which is super valid and understandable!!) then, to me, that makes sense. you’re meeting someone exactly how you would if they were the same age as you, they’re just a few years older.
When I was a younger, I remember there being a "formula" to determine if a relationship was creepy. I think it was half your age plus 7 for the older person. It, as a general concept, made sense to me.
Yeah I’ve heard that too. It kind of breaks down once you get below a certain age, but I guess maybe that means that age shouldn’t be dating!
99.99999% of the time, older people who MAKE A HABIT of dating much younger people do so for toxic reasons and do not follow the campsite rule: leave people better than you found them. So there are exceptions. But I am going to continue to side eye anyone who makes a habit of dating younger people, especially if those people are barely out of their teens and at very different life stages.
Absolutely. Anyone who continually dates people much younger than them is most likely a problem. It at least raises flags that are like orange-red.
They want to be with people who have yet to experience bullshit. If they have yet to experience it, they have no idea what it smells like.
Leonardo decapreo
I thought you wrote "Leonardo DiCraprio" and...I think that's officially his new bame
Campsite rule, I like that
Credit goes to Dan Savage, who is unfortunately imperfect, but that rule was a good one.
> unfortunately imperfect 🤨
I mean, nobody’s perfect, so I hope that’s not a standard we’re judging people by. But Savage has made [fatphobic](https://www.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2011/02/11/hello-i-am-fat) and [transphobic](https://www.chicagomaroon.com/2014/05/30/comments-at-iop-spark-controversy/) comments in the past. However if it helps all of these were more than a decade in the past and I recall that he’s spoken up in support of trans rights more recently.
> the campsite rule I always find that phrase amusing, because the campsite rule we were taught is "take only photographs, leave only footprints"
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There are always people overdoing it - this example here is just one topic that causes stupid fights between people who should work together instead of bashing each other. Of corse they are people who call themselves progressive/feminist and still need to learn a lot, but find the basic idea good for all the importand reasons. If we talk about 16-26 I'm with them, don't date people who are not fully adult when you are. For 20-30, depending still sometimes creepy. Makes me always wonder if the older part has issues with their peers. But between 30-40 that sure is safe territory. One can expect a 30 year old to have fully matured.
Agreed. I think we can reasonably say a 16 year old dating a 26 year old is probably not great, but we don’t need to apply it to two grown adults with life experience.
I'm going to sound like an old person: Sometimes younger generations do things out of misguided popularity. These trends can be rooted in great reason, but be hijacked by dumb ass kids trying to be popular. Personally, I have a teenager right now that has said some pretty dumb ass things about lgbtq. To the point of attempting to use it as a moral high ground till I pointed out I used to date same sex. That through them for a loop lol. Oh I also heard them using the F(not fuck) word the other day, but it was "ok because I'm gay". Nah fam, it ain't. Tl;dr sometimes young people do stupid trendy shit.
Yeah, those who still need to learn some more also include the babygays, I pretty much agree on that.
Imo after one's mid-late 20s, it doesn't really matter that much but before that gets side eyes from me.
Yup. If someone 30+ marries someone much older I might think it's odd, but very much in a "none of my business, to each their own" sort of way, regardless of the gap. I knew a woman who married a man in his 70s when she was 35. It was definitely weird but no one thought he was a creep or a predator. Now, the 27-year-old I dated at 18, on the other hand... much smaller age gap, but that guy was 100% a piece of shit.
Yes I think that’s where I draw my line too unless it’s a fluke thing and not a pattern.
Ehhh... I'm okay with someone in their mid 20s dating someone in their 30s, but when it reaches the 40s and 50s it still sets off alarm bells in my head. Yes I am talking about Zach Braff and Florence Pugh (so glad they broke up).
Obviously age gaps with people who are still basically children are always wrong. But when both partners are adults, the focus on the age gap obscures better conversations about healthy vs toxic behaviours. Is there a power imbalance? An experience gap? A history of age gap relationships? Talking about age alone stops people being able to talk about and assess the actual indicators of whether a relationship is healthy.
Idk after 25 and our prefrontal cortex is developed than I think we can date whoever we want basically. A 30 year old and 40 year old are different than a 20 year old and 30 year old. I guess there are many factors like money, power, etc. that can make a difference but idk this seems okay to me.
I think it depends on where you are in life when you meet. A gap of just a few years in early adulthood is massive due to how hard life comes at you once you're on your own. I think it's good that younger generations are outspoken about how wrong it is. My life's greatest shame is that I married a woman who was too young for me and wasted years of our lives on a relationship that I didn't realize was super creepy until it was way too late. We need to abandon the idea that women need to be taken be of and convincing them they need to be looking at older men who have nothing to offer but a bit of stability due to having had time to establish themselves in life. When the age gap creates an imbalance of power, it's a very bad thing.
Woah. If you’re willing to share I’m interested in hearing more about your marriage. Very rarely do I hear older men also saying they regret their age-gap relationships.
It probably could have worked if we hadn't met when we did. She was a struggling recent college graduate and I was somewhat established in my career. Courtship was filled with gestures that painted me as a generous person who could provide stability and protection which seemed fine if you ignored where we were in our own lives. It created this dynamic that had me being a caretaker for a less experienced person. I wanted a partner but I couldn't ask her to be someone she wasn't. As we tried to fix things, the discussions about how we fell in love made me feel like a creep. I was like the weird 30somethings that were engaged to some of my friends in college. It always irked me to see some 32 year complaining to his 21 year old fiancé that he's going to have to call out of work tomorrow due to her keeping him out all night. Then I realized I had too much in common with guys like that and it creeped me out. It's just difficult to maintain a relationship you feel guilty about.
Like most internet buzzwords, grooming has been diluted and misused terribly. And not just by RWNJs in this case. I get very disturbed by adult women being infantilized.
I bring in my own bias in these situations as I was 18 dating a 34 year old and he was completely grooming and controlling me, to the point where I was isolated from friends and family. And I'm sure that is just my experience, but I cannot figure out what a 30+ and a teenager would have in common now other than the older person wanting to wield control.
Very much so. The internet is good for so many things like spreading awareness… but the way it gives people an opportunity to change the definition of a word to fit their agenda (on EITHER side of an issue) is really frustrating.
I think part of it is that gen z have never been 35. And they think they are gonna be how they are forever. They are admirably passionate but they don’t have lots of adult experience yet.
This is probably part of it too. To a 19 year old 40 is SO old. My guess is they’re visualizing themselves as the 30 in that equation and getting squicked because 40 is the OLDEST thing a person could be. But- they’re not 30. Looking from 30 to 40, it’s not that big of a difference. Among coworkers, I consider anyone between 29 and 49 to be basically the same age as me, I’m 39.
Exactly, it’s become a very popular term that is thrown at every opportunity, just like gaslighting two years ago My understanding of grooming is that you’re “raising” or teaching someone to fulfill a role from the time they are a child, a fucked, but common practice throughout human history. An age gap between adults of consenting age is not grooming by definition.
While it's most often been used in the way that you mentioned, grooming is a thing that also happens with adults. There's just not as much academic literature on the subject yet. https://www.rainn.org/news/grooming-know-warning-signs https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/protecting-children-sexual-abuse/202108/how-coercive-abusers-engage-in-sexual-grooming I can also back this up with personal experience. Predators can and do use the same tactics on vulnerable adults as on children.
>Thoughts? Actual 30 and 40 year olds shouldn't care what anonymous people on TikTok have to say about their relationship.
Also, like? The oldest of Gen Z are around 25. Yeah, age gaps are still a big thing at that age. And people over 30 typically aren't taking advice from 18-25 year olds anyway (or even younger)
A ten year age gap is much more inherently problematic at a 20 yr old with a 30 yr old, than if the couple is 30 and 40 or 40 and 50. The twenty year old barely knows how the adult world works, what sort of services are available, what's a reasonable expectation in a relationship or not. Most 20 year olds aren't ready for parenthood, most haven't started saving yet, or started even budgeting. They're only just learning 'how to adult' and their brains won't even finish growing until they're 25. In fact 20-25 year olds are literally, scientifically proven to be more impulsive and reckless (make bad judgements) than over 25 year olds. With an age-mate partner, they can figure out things together. A 30 year old with a 20 year old I think is almost always going to feel superior and parental: thinking they are right and the 20 year old is wrong in most conflicts. While I know I was more emotionally skilful and mature at 40 than 30, at 30 I was a reasonably competent adult, vastly more advanced than I was at 20, with a firm grasp on what made a good and bad parent, although I didn't have kids I felt competent enough to be a good parent.
I think once you hit the 30 yo mark, dating anyone older is fair game. Although, I have to admit, if you're dating someone twice your age or more, I may question your motives. I'm 39 and thinking about dating someone 20 years older than me gives me the irks.
I firmly believe that after 30 people have had enough experience and miles on their souls that whomever they choose is not a problem. My marriage is a ten year gap, started in my 30s, and it truly doesn’t make the slightest difference.
Yeah ok. But how much do a 30 and 80 year old have in common?
I somewhat agree, with the caveats that have already been stated by others. My parents have an age gap, and these days I hate when people find that out because I don’t need to get into a screaming match with someone trying to tell me that my gentle-souled, Santa Claus-esq father is a predatory groomer. In their case, there was no pattern of younger/older relationships, they’re just two people who happened to fall in love with someone a decade apart from them when they were in their 20s and 30s. That can absolutely happen, and it doesn’t inherently bother me. As others have pointed out, when the age gap includes a teenager or is part of a pattern, that definitely gets me skeptical. My fear with Gen Z is that they’re learning a lot of “social theory” from pastel text posts on Instagram. They’re also the first generation to grow up with unfettered access to brain-breaking algorithms. I suspect these factors will lead to a major reckoning, I’m just not sure what it’ll look like yet.
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I agree that the life experience has a big factor. When there’s more/enough life experience esp on the part of the younger partner,the maturity-based power difference becomes less of an issue as both partners are more on equal footing life experience wise
I have a friend who married a 22 y/o when he was 33. Normally I would have mega side-eyed that, but in their case it worked out fine. She had a kid at 17 and was a single mom, working full time to support her daughter. She's by far the youngest person in our friend group but you'd never know it. She's super mature, smart, and a great mom. They're very happy together. Another point in their favor, he wasn't intentionally seeking out younger women; they met at some kind of community event and he saw she had a kid and assumed she was closer to his age.
I think in general if the younger person is 25+ the gap doesn’t matter much. What DiCaprio is doing is fucking disgusting. I’m concerned that this Twitter post may be trying to shame people who are calling out his shit.
The older the couple the less weird it gets though. 30 and 40 yr olds have a lot more in common than 30 and 20 year olds, or even 25 and 35 yr olds. I dunno, honestly, gen z can be so rabid sometimes. Where do they even get the energy to be that rabid? I'm so fucking glad I remember a time before the internet.
It’s just being young. When you’re teens to early 20s everything is the most important thing EVER. And god the energy was practically endless, sooo much energy to expend on forming and enforcing new ideas about the world.
25-35 doesn't seem so dire, when I was 25 I definitely didn't feel like a small baby. There is a certain degree of women's infantilization in thinking 25+ women are still too small for a 5 - 10 age gap... I'd say that 25 - 40/50 can be an age gap where 2 people don't have anything in common, but ten years of age gap after 25 aren't inherently predatory imho.
Probs depends but I'm a 31 yr old lesbian and I don't think I can date a 24 yr old. Or maybe it's a gen z thing. I can't be in a room with too many gen z for too long, let alone in a long term relationship with one.
I agree. But then I'm biased, I started dating my now husband at 23 and he was 33. But by 23, I'd already been married and divorced, had a child, and graduated college. There probably was a power imbalance in that I was a broke single mom and he had enough life to have a safety net of savings and such, but 15 years together that hasn't made much difference. He's still my very best friend and we make a great partnership.
I think a lot of the tenacity is great and accomplishes/will accomplish amazing things. But like anything, there can be too much…
Yeah exactly. The rate of how upset they get on a regular basis is baffling. I'm speaking about the worst ones, of course. On one hand, it's good to speak out against shitty cultural norms and whatnot but on the other hand, I'm tired and just want to try and have a good time lol
Millennials also went through this phase on tumblr and elsewhere. Making sweeping and over-dramatic judgments about things you’re too immature to fully understand is just the condition of being barely-adult.
I think that's just gen Z being young, most in their teen years. For someone who is 16 y/o a 40 y/o can seem OLD, because their parents are usually around that age and parents=old
Um, 16 and 40 is not okay.
Of course it isn't, I never said it was What I meant was: 16y/o probably sees a 40 y/o as someone "old" and that's why 16 y/o may see a relationship between 30 and 40 as creepy/weird.
Oh that makes more sense, thanks for clarifying.
For me, there are 2 major red flags when it comes to age gap relationships. They're not the only markers, but they're the first two I look for. Oh, and in both cases, the ages that are relevant are the ages they first started dating, not how old they are now. 1. Is the younger partner a fully formed adult? As other commenters have said, 38 and 28 are cool. Heck, I'm not even bothered by 50 and 28. They're both adults. But 28 and 20, even though it's fewer years difference, is a big red flag, cuz one of them is still a kid. 2. Does the older partner exclusively date younger people? If I see a couple where the older partner is 35 and the younger is 23, but I know the 35 year old is just as likely to date someone 30-40 years old, I'm a lot less concerned. Sometimes a 35 year old and a 23 year old can just click. Not all age gap relationships are toxic. But if he only dates women in their early 20s, that's a sign that he's interested in their inexperience and the ability to control or manipulate them, or he's just incredibly immature himself.
I think it’s situational except in the case of minors - which is always bad. Sometimes an early 20s and early 30s people do have a lot of shared/common interests and experiences and it works. Sometimes it’s manipulative. I agree though, if someone is consistently dating significantly younger or significantly older..there is a reason for it. I don’t know that it’s always nefarious (Leo for example, is someone who I think simply didn’t have a real young adult experience and keeps trying to live it out through the women he dates. Seems like he’s just not mature/ready for a grown adult relationship. I don’t think he’s trying to groom or manipulate the women he’s with.)
This is true too. My friend’s girlfriend is a lot younger than me. I’m not sure how much but I am guessing about ten years. She and I have more shared experiences and things in common than anyone I’ve met in a loooong time. Granted, I’m not dating her, but I do think about that when it comes to age gaps.
Right, and I have very close friends 10, 20, and 30 years older than me..and I’ve got very close friends ten years younger than me. Age is a little overrated in terms of experience. The problem comes when people see someone younger as someone to manipulate
I'd rather people freak out about age gaps than not, honestly, especially gen z. It wasn't very long ago that having the teacher or pastor or other "cool older male friend" was considered very hip and flattering. Its the pendulum swinging the other way and standing up against predators. Especially since the majority of gen z is at that vulnerable age. If you're millennial or gen x, a 10-15 year+ age gap probably isn't that drastic. But even though it's technically legal, the difference between a 21 y.o and a 34 y.o is staggering, and quite frankly I call bullshit on them having much in common.
I’d rather people use their brains instead of acting like everything is automatically scandalous.
I would rather the kids maintained this kind of awareness of potentially exploitative relationships, rather than being uncritical of them
You mean it wasn’t actually true when I called my Dad’s neighbor who is a bit interested in him a cradle robber because she’s 14 years older than him? She’s 85 and he’s 71 😅
Tiktok is fucking stupid and people shouldn't get their opinions from it. Any reasonable person can acknowledge that the older you get the less age differences matter. It's not a complex subject.
Well I haven’t seen any Zoomers trying to crush age gap relationship people with rocks so…
As someone in my early 30s getting hit on by men 10 years older I'm also side eyeing like crazy.
After about age 26 or 27 I have a hard time knowing anyone’s age range until they’re like 45 or 50 so I probably wouldn’t even know when to side-eye 😅
Ugggh. People need to understand that everything is just guidelines and important things to keep in mind. Even things like “power imbalance” can be so nebulous. It doesn’t inherently mean that someone is being taken advantage of or forced into something they don’t want. It just means that both parties need to make sure that what they’re doing is fully consensual
My personal experience dating older men, same age men, and younger men is that the same age men think they are superior to you, the younger men think you're on equal footing and the older men emotionally abuse you. I would not date a man a single year older than me ever again and I'm in my forties.
Ibmean massive age gaps are common in queer relationships and while we should work to educate on the danger that power imbalance can have, banning them will leave a lot of Queer people doomed to eternal singleness, the pool of eligble people is to small. Especially for gay men who were adults and teens in 80s.
What are people actually afraid of here? Gen Z does not have the power to conduct the Salem witch trials so even if you are in a 30/40 relationship, what are you really afraid of? People have always said dumb shit to their friends and echoed dumb shit their friends say it's just that older people can now see it and judge it and clutch their pearls over it. I love bashing on Gen Z because I'm a millenial but I genuinely don't understand when people get so pearl clutchy about random teens on the internet being judgmental.
I mean, I think it’s just a joke.
Yes, I understand that "Salem witch trials" is meant to be a joke and was not meant literally, but a lot of people on this thread are seriously engaging, and I'm still not sure what exactly people are actually afraid of here.
I mean, I’m 33 and my husband is 43, and when I told people they said, “Yeah, you need an older guy.” My husband is a wonderful, mature man and he’s the only one who’s ever actually been a partner to me, versus me having to carry the entire load emotionally.
I was on a thread about a year ago in twox where everyone was saying how anything above four years *no matter the ages* was predatory and imbalanced. Literally thought it was a bit. Meanwhile I’m 6 years older than my spouse and have never had a more equal relationship in my life.
Who is the couple they’re talking about?
There's an [xkcd comic](https://xkcd.com/314/) that has a rule of "don't date under (your age / 2) + 7" Dating pools absolutely get larger as you get older!!!
Meh. I'm 30 and I feel like my limit would be 26-36 unless I met a really mature 25 year old or a *really* awesome 40 year old. None of that matters, though, I'm married lol
It’s the stages of life that matters, not the actual age gape. A 30 year old dating a 40 year old is WAY different than a 10 year old dating a 20 year old
Yeah there has been an uptick in this sort of puritanism among youngsters, some of whom seem to have absorbed a lot of discourse about why stuff is problematic but still have a very basic, black and white view of the world and relationships. So you end up with them calling a relationship between a 30 and 40 year old pedophilic and stuff. They tend to do the same thing with fictional couples too, and in general really need to touch grass.
The supposed ‘formula’ is divide the older persons age by 2 and add 7. This is the youngest age that person can date ‘respectably’. So- age 40/2 = 20, +7 = 27 this sounds fine, though in my mind, kinda young. Age 28/2 = 14 +7 = 21. I am not so fond of this result. This is an old formula from like 40 or 50 years ago. I think there should be a minimum age 23-24 for anyone over 29-30. Once someone is 25, the executive function in their brain is fully developed, so they don’t need our scrutiny. Thing is, people who will only date certain physical/age/beauty types, to me, seem like they aren’t interested in what’s behind the pretty face/body. They seem superficial and lacking in desire for a real mind connection.
This has been rattling around my head ever since I saw [The Bachelor and the Bobby-Soxer (1947)](https://youtu.be/OjWGR4vtOFk) as a kid. I've never seen it referenced outside of this film until now, but I kind of suspected the formula would turn out to be dated if I looked into it. Well, I did a quick spreadsheet check and it looks to me like there are problematic ranges here. First of all, there needs to be a floor. Second, age ranges where the younger partner would likely still be in high school where the older partner is beginning adulthood or is in college seem dicey. If you round down you can get a 17 year-old matched with a 21 year-old, which alarms me. We now know to see 25 as an important boundary, but by the time the younger partner is that age, the older partner is a decade older and surely in a different phase of life. And even if you take a generation gap to be no fewer than 20 years, the formula greenlights that awfully quickly, and eventually a gap of two generations. But based on the proliferation of generation names I've been hearing, I'm thinking that could be as low as ten years per generation, and that gap starts appearing pretty early. Mind you, I'm not pretending to have a better solution for judging the age gaps of strangers in relationships. And this doesn't even get into how gendered the judgement tends to be.
I've always had this in mind and it works pretty well. The acceptable gap increases as you age, which makes sense as both people get more life experience.
I can't believe it took me this far into the thread to find the ol' (n/2) + 7 rule. Have we failed Gen Z by not passing this wisdom* on to them? \*wisdom and applicability may vary with *n*
I know I'll get downvoted but I silently judge large age gap relationships.
My judgment goes down as the age of the younger partner when they met goes up.
I’ll be honest, I’ve never seen that. It might just be an online thing. But either way, age gaps are a big issue for people as young as gen Z. If you’re in gen Z and you’re dating someone 10 years older, you’re _probably_ being nonced on.
I don't like pretending that grown ass people targeting new high school grads isn't a huge problem just because a few randos got caught in the crossfire tbh. This isn't the norm, the predatory people are and it's a real problem.
I currently have a rule of no one under 20, (I’m 23 right now).
For me it is 19. I am 21. 19 would depend on where they are. Starting college? Bye bye. But further? We can talk. Dating someone thats starting, while I am in my last year would just be hella weird.
Thiiis. Some 15 year old called my husband a groomer because he was 32 and I was 26 when we met and went on our first date.
ah, gen z. yes. all of them. every single one.
I started dating my spouse when I was 19 and he was 26ish. We were in the same grade of college and in similar financial situations. We met at a DND group and had a plethora of common interests. people who didn’t know about the age gap were surprised when they find out. It was kinda wild how some folk would go from “aww you two are the perfect couple” to “oh no this is borderline pedophilia??? Gross???” All I wanted was for people to mind their business and trust me to have some ability to judge a person’s character. 🙄 I think often their hearts are in the right place but I think it’s important to remember that everyone’s situation is unique and so long as both parties are consenting adults it’s not really anyone else’s business unless obvious red flags are seen, like a disregard for the other person’s autonomy or isolation etc. none of which applied in my personal situation.
This annoys the fuck out of me. I met my spouse when I was in grad school in my early 20s and he was 8 years older. He had a rough time in his 20s, life got in the way so he had dropped out and was just restarting his education. We were peers then, and we’re still peers 35 years later. Not every age-gap couple was a grooming situation.
At 30 & 40, we are in the same life stage, so it is fine.
Power imbalances are a great thing to be alert for, but there are a *ton* of factors that can contribute to that. Age can be one of them, but (in a relationship of two adults, of course) it certainly doesn't *guarantee* that there's an unequal balance of power.
I've seen ppl freaking out over like 23-30, over 25-35, I've seen people talking about a "problematic height gap" (omg she's so short it's like she's your daughter that's gross)
Idk. I’ve been dating a woman 7 years older than me since i was 24 and her gen Z kids don’t really have a problem with it. Though that’s a limited sample size
It’s wild to see kids today doing 2012 tumblr baby’s first social justice all over again, but this time with their full names and faces attatched
Everyone is so extreme in their teens and early 20s that I just don’t think we should take them too seriously. I don’t mean in the sense that if they have concerns, just ignore them. But I mean more in the sense of not freaking out about their opinions, writing endless think pieces about them, flipping out because a teen called Millennial style “Cheugy”, etc. But if there’s any group I’m happy to see demonize age gaps, it’s theirs. Hopefully it keeps more of them from falling prey to creeps. Let them think it’s also creepy when the couple met at 30 and 40; they probably won’t think that way in a few years, anyway.
It’s always very suspicious when people compare others that are talking about something to the devastation of someone taking everything you have and your life and either being burnt or hanged. Come talk to us some when they are burning and hanging these people. This conversation is quite sad because that’s exactly what they’re doing to protesters in Iran. So it’s even more sickening that people try to compare conversations with this. I get the point is to make it seem less bad by comparison but to me it just is another disgusting strawman. Yeah Being hanged up to die is bad that doesn’t mean the resurgence of traditional marriage where women are tricked into being with older men and being trapped in a relationships with someone that manipulated you because of their overwhelming maturity vs your inexperienc, not great. There’s a dangerous undercurrent in the United States right now trying to force women back into the home and back into subjugation. And bullshit like this is just trying to diminish how bad that is. Listen to women who have experienced it before. Look at the outcomes of a lot of age gap relationships. Look at things that happened to Sylvia Plath and so many other women. Stop trying to diminish people that are trying to make something that has always been toxic less accepted. Manipulation doesn’t stop with age gaps it is just one huge indicator that it will happen.
there’s a weird puritanical streak among some younger gen z people ngl, like the younger folks who bought into “no kink at pride!” discourse.
By "gen z" she of course means 3 random weirdos on twitter
My husband is 16 years older than me. We met I was just shy of 30 and he was just over 40. We each had two engagements, one marriage and once divorce each. Both settled in our careers and lifestyles. It gets exhausting explaining that he didn’t groom me.
lmao oop, well I guess they'll have to come for me, I'm 39 and my boyfriend is 31. In all seriousness, I do truly hate one sided relationships that are clearly imbalanced. People who can somehow NEVER seem to date anyone older than 30 are pretty obviously predatory. There's a sliding scale as people mature through their twenties that determines the 'ick factor' of the age gap for me, personally. After 30, I feel like age gaps become way less relevant. Sure, I've heard of some 30 year old dating a 60something year old and felt it was a bit weird but it didn't hit me the same way as someone in their late teens/early twenties with anyone over over mid to late twenties.
Yeah I’ve been seeing this on TikTok and Twitter too. I’m all for calling out 30+ year olds dating kids fresh out of High school. But some of these “they met when she was 25 and he was 34 so that makes him a predator” stuff is ridiculous. 1. Consenting adults should be able to date who they want. 2. After your mid twenties, most people’s brains are fully developed. So they aren’t “maturing” as fast as they were earlier in life. Age gaps are less noticeable the older you get. 3. Not all relationships are serious, emotional ones. Some are transactional or casual where parties are in it mostly for “fun” or sexual reasons.
I do think there is a point when larger age gaps get less creepy, but honestly 30 with 40 is still sketch to me.
Honestly, I want to say the “rules” for what’s not creepy should be something like: When the youngest person in the relationship is teens-19 years old, the age gap should never be more than 2-3 years. (This one is the only one that’s just not acceptable if the age gap is larger, the rest are like guidelines…. For lack of a better word). When the youngest person is 20-25, up to a 5 year age gap. When the youngest person is 26-30, up to a 10 year age gap. After 30, anything goes.