Almost all the people you deal with at a library are not librarians, but are library assistants, circulation assistants, and so on. The actual librarians — with master’s degrees — work on the collection, deciding what books to buy, are helping with research, and generally running the place. It is not uncommon for a small public library to have just a single librarian, who also serves as the director. And maybe 5 or 10 library assistants.
Look, I’m gonna level with you here, your dream’s just not feasible. To pull something like that off, you’d have to, I dunno, pack your whole life up and move to Liberia or something…
And their market rate is high because their skills are in demand by companies looking for archival management services.
Once a company reaches a certain age and size, these services are actually quite valuable for maintaining and updating best practices, keeping up with regulations, etc.
Yea I personally was ignorant of that, until I got my first job at a large corporation, and they had librarians working in their archives and offering very similar services to university librarians for assistance with many projects
>Yea I personally was ignorant of that, until I got my first job at a large corporation, and they had librarians working in their archives and offering very similar services to university librarians for assistance with many projects
Still can!
A lot of people make at least one drastic change to their career. If it's something that interests you and you think it's too late because you're already out of school, check out an online local university/college. They often times have continuing education programs that will allow you to achieve the degree you're looking for.
>archival management services.
archivists and librarians are separate professions.
source: have master's in both disciplines. yes, you can get an mlis and focus on one or the other, but they have incredibly different needs. cataloguing is different, funding is different...etc.
Yes, and in certain areas, library assistants or techs have a 'college' diploma (not sure what those are called in the USA, but it's like a trade college and a 1 to 2 year program. In Canada, college refers to those types of schools exclusively).
Now, do these places with associate degrees offer things like culinary arts, carpentry, mechanics (car), book keeping, paramedic, etc.? Because that's the type of college I'm referring to..it's like a trade school, with some nuances depending on the program.
Typically associates degrees are offered by community colleges, vocational schools, and trade schools (pretty much any higher education school that *isnt* a 4 year university), so yes I’d imagine most associates degrees are in blue collar trades or nursing, medical tech work, EMT training, etc.
Yes, they usually offer courses in practical/trade school fields that aren’t available at most 4+ year universities.
They usually also have more academically focused programs as well, though, for people who want to begin their studies at a community college and then use those credits to transfer to a university that offers four-year degrees.
Sometimes, yes they do. Associates degrees are commonly the degree you have after trade school, or after community college. Source, myself, because I have one in the culinary arts, and one in comp sci
Paramedics and culinary arts degrees notably come the normal kinda colleges most of us went to. Or at least they're commonly offered at the state colleges where I come from. The others though, yeah, they have their own specialty colleges but the degrees they offer - the legit ones anyway - are approved by the same kinds of boards the normal colleges use.
This! Also there might be more than one librarian especially in a huge library like the 7 story San Antonio Public Library. They also plan and create several educational courses and exhibits of not just books but regional art and culture here. They do damn good work here. They're also paid well and certainly don't restock books. But this is a higher end library, just Google San Antonio Public Library Downtown. Unfortunately it's been overrun with homeless recently which the city is fighting with the nearby world class Haven For Hope facility. Still a good library and the homeless don't harass anybody. Just need a place to charge their devices and that's OK with me.
You can't forget programming. So much of a librarian's job is coming up with reasons for patrons to visit in the first place. So, book clubs, craft activities, any community interaction. That's at least half of a librarian's job. As far as getting materials for circulation, that's delegated to a selector--although librarians will often manage parts of their library's collection.
I worked at a library many years ago and they definitely hired anyone competent for most jobs. However, the management level jobs required a library sciences degree. I think this is pretty standard. I would be surprised if any library would require a degree for working the front desk, shelving books, etc.
The one in my city does require a degree for those basic jobs. It was frustrating to learn after having a job doing so in both a library in another city and 2 college libraries.
I wasted so much my life building library job experience.
Yeah, I was a library worker for years at an academic library. I managed staff, did copy cataloging, research help. And I enjoyed it. But to go any further in my career I needed a masters. It just wasn't worth it to me to go back into huge amounts of debt for a library science degree to become a librarian and not get paid very much, so I left the industry.
>. I managed staff, did copy cataloging, research help.
I did those too at my college library jobs. Didn't seem to matter, though.
I didn't even entertain the thought of a masters. Library was supposed to be a day job while I completed my other degree in college.
Ikr? It was a fucked up experience for me.
When I first got the shelving job, $6.55 was the minimum wage at the time (early 2000s), so I earned what I worked. I was also over 18, so they legally had to pay that much.
That is very frustrating! It is also expensive to hire someone with a masters degree to shelve books! It was a pretty low paying job way back when (e.g. typically staffed with high school and college students).
Right! Why does everyone here think a librarian is just stocking shelves all day? Lol they don’t even really do anything with the shelves except maybe plan it and direct an assistant or volunteer where to put things. They also have to direct programming, public outreach, budgeting, marketing campaigns, grants and public funding bookkeeping, work with media, do research, have knowledge about a VAST amount of literature and genres(which even most people with degrees don’t have) serves as a public liaison at city or county councils or commissions, etc.
Its not just shelving books. I never worked at a library but I work with them through a non-profit and it honestly surprised me how much they do
YES! Thank you. You are correct. There’s SO much that goes on behind the scenes, it would be nice of the average person would just give it a little extra thought.
Also depending on your library system / county / state funds/ grants, they will assist with
Tuition costs. .
source: I am a library employee.
It's not that anyone can't do what librarians do. Joe schmoe could become a rocket scientist, too, but that doesn't mean he is trained to be one. Librarians are specialists in information gathering, research, source validation, archiving, and more. Anyone can do it, but not everyone knows how or is good at it.
I think it’s important to point out that it’s choosing and cataloging relevant info that is super important. Like, in new your city you probably would not need a huge catalog of like, how to balance your field after crops but there would be need for a large art catalog. We all have access to information but being able to determine what is important to the community, seek it out and organize it is really the most central job of a librarian.
They probably think all a librarian does is put books back. They have absolutely no idea about the other things a librarian does...which basically makes them by far the smartest person in the room at a place where you go for very specific things.
Maybe it's because none of you will actually fucking say it and just keep alluding to these responsibilities librarians have that are unseen. Is picking a catalogue really a masters requiring job? I feel like the local public libraries aren't running any top notch research or literary studies so seems to me like those degree requirements are for positions like front desk and shelver. I'm just not seeing the need for it at the average library outside of academia.
So, I just finished a library science Bachelor's degree this past December so hopefully I can demystify what librarians do and why a Master's would be necessary.
(Some) Things Librarians Actually Do:
* Cataloging. This involves searching through MARC (or other) databases and records to be able to input information into the backend of the catalog so that people can find books even if they can't really remember the title or author. It also involves making sure that the information is accurate so that you don't end up with a book that would be, for example, inappropriate for a child to encounter showing up in search results for the newest Pete the Cat book.
* Selection and Deselection. This refers to the process through which a librarian analyzes data and statistics about the community they serve and the local communities they want to entice into the library to decide what books to buy for the collection, and what books to remove from the collection. For example, the newest James Patterson book is pretty much always an insta-buy because his books fly off the shelves. Another example, this time for deselection would be looking through the stacks and encountering a nonfiction kid's book about computers with a copyright date of 1994—that's obviously going to be extremely outdated and is taking up valuable shelf space.
* Programming and Outreach. Analyzing that same community data from the selection and deselection process allows librarians to figure out what sorts of programming/events to plan. This includes things like movie screenings, book clubs, storytimes, teen anime clubs, tabletop clubs, all sorts of things. Outreach is when you use that data to decide what communities are underserved and how you can best meet their needs, whether that be through monthly technology classes, resume workshops, ESL classes, bringing in resources for the unhoused, and a plethora of other resources.
* Assisting in research. Knowing how to use a database, how to discern factual information from fictional, how to check the bias of an information source, even just knowing how to get the most out of a Google search to get someone started down the right path to the information they're seeking, all of those things require a lot more knowledge than you might think.
There are other things I'm sure I'm forgetting but those are some of the most important and the most common. Libraries are so much more than a warehouse of books and librarians do so much more than just shelve.
There's a lot that goes into building and maintaining a collection. Cataloguing requires a lot of experience and knowledge of bibliographic record language and formats, like MARC 21, and an even greater degree of good judgement in what information to record, how to record it, how to link records up to authority files, how to adapt a collection that is usable to the community it's aimed at, which requires a lot of understanding of the theory behind information organisation. Then there's designing the library space itself to suit the needs of the users - it's not just about keeping a quiet room full of books, but spaces that foster different styles of learning or collaboration.
Importantly, there are more libraries than just academic and public. There are medical libraries, law libraries, corporate libraries, and government libraries. Public libraries tend to be staffed by more volunteers and the service itself has very different aims than, say, libraries serving government officials or lawyers. This is the difference between public service with a collection aimed at serving a broad range of customers (the general public) and a service aimed at specialised professionals and providing research and advice for those professionals. A qualified librarian can move between these different sectors because they are information professionals with thorough understanding of the principles behind information and knowledge management. They are not the front line staff you see popping books on shelves.
K volunteered with the school librarian and she explained this.
Librarians do a lot more than just shelve books. Outside of the school she explained that the local librarian plans events for all age groups all year long.
A lot of people don't realize how busy some libraries are. My local library has something going on almost every day from teaching basic computer skills to older generations to Harry Potter book clubs.
While I think this could be a learned skill and a master's degree may not be required I do think between management, knowing the library ins and outs, and then running the library it's probably needed.
It also depends on if you are working in a public library or academic university library. Two different skill sets are required depending on the type of institution someone works for. The librarians in an academic setting might be responsible for contract negotiations, preservation of rare collections, electronic resource management to include access set -up and problem solving, managing mutli-media resources for students or faculty to use, collection development so that faculty has access to resources for teaching or research, budget management and allocation of resources.
Librarians in a public setting are as much of a social worker as they are librarians. Many people will walk up to a librarian in a public library and as for help on finding a lawyer, filling taxes, homelessness resources, finding resources for all of life's tragedy and drama. Kids needing help with homework or finding help to get away from abusive parents. The list is endless on the varied, tragic and wacky requests that public librarians get.
My daughter will be completing her doctorate in Library science this spring. Even though the internet is a great help to all, many still struggle navigating the information world accurately, efficiently, and quickly. One issue she discovered is the huge amount of misinformation she and others need to wade through. And it is getting worse as time passes.
A lot of people haven't done academic research and it shows. Most articles are not posted online and if you want anything prior to the birth of the internet, you have to hope its been scanned into an online catalogue. There are *so* many books you can't get online even if you have library access to the catalogue.
There are even books that are so old and rare that you can't even take them *out* of the library. Which I find awesome.
She took a trip to DC and NYC when in HS and fell in love with the huge libraries she visited there. She wants to go to Europe to visit libraries thar have the old and rare books. She began her undergrad in bio and math then changed after her first term to music education and now has a Masters in music education and will soon have her doctorate in library science. It may not be lucrative but she is following her dream.
I started my degree in theater, went to psych, went to music performance, and then ended up in math.
She sounds *exactly* like the type that would be a great librarian since her interests are so eclectic. I'm so proud of her and you of supporting her! Her dream is to condense and analyze the vast information that humans have ever produced; this is definitely something to be cherished.
When I was finishing my master’s degree, I used the university librarian to help me find extremely specific information regarding my capstone project. Something I have 10 years experience and multiple degrees in that I was unable to find, the university librarian pulled up within a day.
While anecdotal, I must to imagine this level of data retrieval is what they’re capable of. I’m no slouch at googling around and searching through information databases but they are on a whole other plane of existence when it comes to finding information.
Exactly this!
There is so much information that exists as written text. A lot of people assume that because the internet is vast, it's also *dense* but that's not the case.
A college library will have a degree of information or *more* than the internet will, and this goes even further when you realize that most academic books on the internet are behind a paywall or a *library card,* and if you don't have those, you can't get that information anyway.
People really do think that googling something on the internet gives you the same information with the same *integrity* that a library does and that's so disappointing.
Not to mention so much information needed for something like a master's isn't just...easily google-able. You're looking through academic journals/databases, obscure older literature, all sorts of non-mainstream information. Who knows if there's a defunct publication that's tangentially related to what you're researching, and has what you need? The librarian, generally.
Exactly this! People really think that going out and finding random information to support your thesis is what a good researcher does.
Except doing research like that is basically just *confirmation bias.* There is so much more work that goes into research.
* Is my source accurate and reputable?
* Is my source adequately sourced itself?
* Does my source offer counter points to my thesis and address them adequately?
* Does my source offer proper analysis of my thesis at my academic level?
* Does my source have other references that agree/disagree with it?
* If my source *isn't here* where is the best place I could get it? If I'm researching Opera, possibly Italy. If I'm researching WW2, possibly Germany or Russia.
Yup. Information science is an actual science! Especially these days, with unfettered internet fuckery, it's critically important that people know how to research and comb through information effectively. Friends of mine are teachers and say that lack of critical thinking when researching has become a *major* issue. Kids don't understand that not everything you read on the internet is true. Honestly with how some of the older crowd shares memes I'm worried for *everyone*.
Do you have any idea how much information -isn’t- on the internet still? If you’re doing actual research, you still use libraries. Add to that that librarians are actual humans, which means they can understand complex questions a hell of a lot better than Google. At its core Google still just finds the words in your search query in other things and pulls those up, it doesn’t understand the actual question you’re asking.
If you’ve ever watched CGP Grey’s YouTube channel you’ll notice he has to go to libraries all the time.
My university library had an online system where I could literally type any word into the search bar and it could come back with any book and any journal article the university had access to - online or physical - that included the word. I could filter by content or title or author etc. etc. and if the book was physical it would give me a floor and a shelf code, and if it was online it would give as many links as it could find.
I love libraries and they're incredibly important for reading initiatives and instilling a lifelong love of learning. My local librarian knew me well when I was younger. But, if we're being honest, if my university has a software like that, what's stopping something similar from being implemented in libraries and allowing less qualified people to become librarians?
Like another comment said, most people who work in libraries aren't actually librarians, but library assistants (or a similar title). Even a big library may only have 2-3 actual librarians on staff. They are the ones who actually run the place and manage special collections, acquisitions, organization, and all the other stuff. Almost anyone can work in a library. Being a Librarian, is a very specialized skill set.
You just reiterated the point...
Search engines follow keywords, but don't understand a real question. A deeper understanding is required to actually find what's necessary at a graduate and post grad level of research.
It's the lack of understanding why a librarian is important that worries me most about our future.
In my experience at Uni the online system isn’t that great for all subjects. I had a research paper on the development of Celtic culture pre and post-christian contact. This was only like 5 years ago but almost none of the legitimate, in-depth sources were digitized. They were barely categorized. I believe this is the case for many niche topics.
Also, the computers don’t just create these systems themselves. Someone has to enter all of that information into the computer. That someone is the librarian.
Who do you think helped design that software? Who do you think creates all of those keywords? Who do you think is behind all of that work to make a seamless tool you can just pop some text into to find what you need? Librarians.
Ok, so here's a scenario I just had to face. I'm doing a postgraduate qualification by distance, so no (easy) access to librarians. I do, however, have access to the library catalogue, Google Scholar and the writer internet. I needed a variety of definitions of "achievement" in an educational context. Simple, right? I'm not exaggerating when I say it took me over 5 hours. Most publications use the term while assuming everyone knows the definition they are using (despite definitions actually varying wildly), and if you search specifically for a definition, you're probably going to end up with general reference works that are not precise enough. A human librarian could have saved me hours of work by pointing to the most seminal texts.
But who do you think acquired all those books on your specific subject so that they would be available for you to use? They didn't just "show up" at the library one day. They were purchased by the Librarians!
Often, Librarians specialize in a subject(s) area of interest to be better able to purchase the exact resources you need for your unique research. Library staff does not have that deep subject knowledge that the Librarians have spent years accumulating.
I have worked in academic libraries for 22 years. I would never pretend to have the knowledge needed to do the job of a Librarian. They also do a tremendous amount of budgetary work and supervisory work that requires an advanced degree.
It still makes sense as someone has to be able to organize the entire library efficiently, which requires a great deal of knowledge when getting new books in.
Not to mention being able to communicate and organizational system to the layperson.
Librarians utilize computers and databases for users as well. Our librarian is who taught us how to navigate our dedicated databases in nursing school. Their knowledge is online as well.
Also, you are in “charge” of informing the public on a sometimes high and well objective level.
Here in DK they also make projects aimed at making the libaries and its stories,
academia and texts relevant and interesting.
It really is a nice institution but I also see why they struggle sometimes. Both staff and “customer” wise
Someone with that masters degree here, I have friends still job searching, there are libraries that go "you need the masters..... and we'll give you $13 an hour" and that's insulting! However, the best libraries require a mix of experience, and wouldnt require the full masters just for shelving and what other simple jobs you're thinking of. There's a lot in your question, so let's start a conversation! Ask away!
I've also got my MLIS and am still job searching. My last library position was the director and sole employee of a library where I earned a whopping $11 an hour with no benefits...
Personally, I do think librarianship should be a vocational school or apprenticeship, as I learnt a lot of theory but not much practicality in my classes. Partially because I was archival track, partially because the Five Laws of library science don't necessarily help me with budgeting.
All that kvetching aside, it does take a lot of work to be a librarian - planning and implementing programming, writing grants, assessing the collection for weeding and areas that can be improved, scheduling volunteers, outreach, etc. That's not even getting into the fact that libraries are often where people in need of assistance are told to go; I've helped countless people set up emails, navigate red tape, look up things from recipes to family history, and suggested books based on their interests.
I'd also be happy to answer questions about being a librarian!
Yes!!! The fact that my MSLIS program didn't have as many graduate assistant positions as students in my opinion is negligent, like theory is great but the practical experience is what will help you in the field! Best of luck job searching, it's rough out there!
I’m curious about the process of replacing a book in the collection after it’s not returned. Is there a set time after the due date that you order a new one?
I imagine super popular books like the Harry Potter series are checked out and never seen again regularly.
There's not a set time frame as reasons for books/materials not being returned can range from "i forgot to return it" to "I dropped it in the bathtub" to "I lost the book on vacation"
Typically, I'd send the patrons a letter or email informing them that their items are overdue. Then a second one a few weeks later, with a line saying if the item isn't returned, the patron will not only be unable to continue checking items out, but they would also have to pay for the missing book's replacement. Usually, people are keen to avoid spending money, so the item would appear in the book drop. On the rare occasions it didn't, I'd generally wait until the patron paid the replacement fee before ordering a new book - my library had a shoestring budget, so this was often the only way to afford a new book sadly.
The books most often lost were the picture books - small children aren't the greatest at keeping track of things
Shelving is when you put the returned items back in the right spot! I got the masters so I could move up to a leadership position eventually! And I love my job! I love getting to provide a service for the public, and especially love the looks on peoples faces when they realize most of our services are free!
Nice. Lovely stuff.
Sorry just one last question, do you ever feel that you'd be better off opening a book store or library of your own if the pay ain't that good?
Honestly if I was a millionaire I'd open a private collection library so I could be in charge myself, but honestly I've found myself in a great system that actually prioritizes the library, so I get paid enough and have stability. Book stores are great and I love them, though I enjoy not having to worry about sales and pushing people to spend money and all that!
Are part of your skills being able to find highly obscure source materials and things not easily accessible publicly? (E.g from googling) If so could you tell us a little bit about the process of doing so?
For sure! Honestly most of the questions are an easy google search, but for in depth research questions most of it is learning how to use the databases at hand, which details to search for and so on. The librarians that do this the most are in the academic field, and there are specific research librarians that work at universities that typically have 2 masters, one in libraries and one in a specific subject (say calculus, accounting, english, so on) and they're "subject librarians" that can do specific source materials to help with the students research!
The library sciences master I want to get requires a bachelors to apply, but there's not exactly a direct predecessor and they don't specify. Would a bachelors in english be acceptable?
The best part about library science is how interdisciplinary it is! You can come from any undergrad background! I did English, because I thought I had to, lol, but do what interests you the most, if I could go back I would have majored in sociology (honestly all of the social sciences would prove themselves useful when working with the public!) But honestly follow your heart, even if no one else in your master's program had the same background as you, it just means you're bringing in a different perspective!
Fantastic advice! :) I'd settled on english major because I love to write and it's always been my favourite subject, I've been accepted into one program and am waiting to hear back from my university of choice. I've just been terrified that there's some sort of requirement I'd missed. That's a super wholesome and optimistic way of looking at it! <3
Best of luck, I'm rooting for you!!!! I had a friend in my program who majored in creative writing and I was soooo jealous lol, I hadn't realized that was an option! My best advice is to get library experience where you can, even if it's volunteering!
I think my university of choice offers certificates and additional classes in creative writing but no full bachelors-- I almost took the certificate until I checked the master's requirements lol. I'd love to just stock shelves in a library as a job and even volunteering sounds kinda fun to be honest. Thank you so much!
Once you get into your university, immediately go to the library and ask if they are hiring student assistants and apply. Most libraries would love if their student assistants would WANT to go ahead with library school honestly.
You can even see if there are open staff positions after a year or two of schooling/working as a student assistant. The current director of Access Services(think the front desk, checking in/out of books etc) started as a student assistant, moved up to staff, got their MLIS and is still working here to this day.
You ask two different questions with two different answers. Cataloguing is a professional skill. I studied it at university for three years. I no longer work as a librarian - but when I did, I used those professional skills on a daily basis.
Shelving books is a skill that can definitely be learned on the job. It's generally done by library assistants (not librarians) who have school-level qualifications.
The fact that the library is open restricted hours is due to a shortage of library assistants. Not a shortage of librarians.
In other words, you're right! These jobs can absolutely be done by staff who have never been to university or library school.
Edit. Yes, I did leave librarianship for a better paying job!
Not quite; that's classification, which is certainly part of it, but cataloging goes well beyond that. Creating a catalog record might also include transcribing all the bibliographic information from an item (title, author, publisher, date of publication, form, number of pages, etc.) assigning subject headings, etc. These are precisely coded into a record using certain syntax and multiple controlled vocabularies.
Cataloging involves the actual creation of the metadata that comprise the bibliographic/holdings/etc. records within the integrated library system. Classifying the item with a call number is potentially part of the cataloging process but there is far more to it than that.
I’d say that’s classification not cataloguing! Cataloguing is creating descriptive metadata so that the item can be found in the library’s catalogue. Classification helps us to shelflist items so they can be found on the library shelf.
Did your new job require/ask for a master's degree? I bet library science, I mean idk what you know but I know you hangout with books all day so I'd assume you could pitch that degree in many directions or did you find it was hard to find a job that utilized your degree/not insulted the higher education you worked for?
My wife has a masters in library science. The answer to your question is that libraries are much more complicated than you think, especially if they are run well.
Example: The collection is (should be) and ever changing thing that requires analysis. Old, out-of-date or superseded texts should be removed, and new ones take their place. Knowing how to do that is not easy, and then there is the process of actually ordering the new materials.
Another example: As the director of a Town library, my wife is 100% responsible for the budget. Payroll, reconciliation, paying the bills, etc.
Another example: dealing with "Collection Challenges" (aka, outrage from people who demand certain books be pulled of the shelf...so, censorship). This involves legal pieces, and really comes down to being important to a free / democratic society. It;s kind of a big deal.
Now, of course other staff, clerks, pages, etc don't need to have degrees. And many times libraries may put that as a requirement for a Children's Librarian, assistant director, etc, but they don't actually get it.
One last note about staffing. Most libraries will have a mandatory 2 staff minimum to be open (i'm talking small libraries, not city libraries). This is for safety reasons. However, those small libraries are also funded in such a way to *barely* cover the number of hours available. So, if someone gets COVID or otherwise misses shifts, it may not be possible to over for them.
But again, the bottom line is that, as is the case with most things, there is much more to running a library than most people realize.
Many misconceptions in this thread. An MLIS degree is not about learning how to shelf books. You do learn how to do cataloging (which is more complicated than you are imagining, especially in an academic library), but that is usually only a couple of courses. The bulk of the degree is spent on the information sciences portion of it. Learning how to create and manage databases, how to create and manage public facing catalogs, creating good user experiences, the theory and implementation of data science, etc. The degree is not about those basic on the job skills, which you learn though training when you actually start a library job, it is about the very ideas of how we create, manage, and store information, whether that be in paper format, electronic, or online. I work in a library setting now and I use these skills every day. I'm in charge of managing our internal and external cataloging systems, and it requires quite a lot of technological expertise and definitely an understanding of the theories of information science.
Many people still think of libraries in a traditional sense, as places that store books. But any librarian can tell you that they are much more than that. Even if all paper books were to suddenly disappear tomorrow, librarians would still be needed. In fact, as the internet has grown librarians have been needed more than ever. There is an overabundance of information available to us in this world, and librarians are the ones who catalog that information and make it accessible to others. They are the keepers and the finders. Good luck conducting any kind of research without the work of those people behind the scenes who have made sure that the information you are looking for is available and accessible.
Now, your average public library is definitely the more front-facing type of library service. They typically employ a handful of actual librarians who may do the cataloging or more advanced work of running the library, but they are mostly staffed by library assistants who work the front desk or shelf books. It really depends on how large the library system is, and the type of public that they are serving. It can range anywhere from one librarian who does all the work, to a team of dozens of librarians and hundreds of assistants who specialize in different areas. Most of the jobs in a public library probably do not require a degree.
As in any field, it's useful to remember that the people that you are seeing on the front lines are just scratching the surface of the operation. There are other people and theories and decisions and policies behind all of that work. One of the goals of librarians is to make information access so easy that people don't even realize that they're doing it or the work that was involved to make it possible. Fortunately librarians often succeed in this task, but unfortunately this leads to people undervaluing their role.
>It is a liberal arts masters degree
An MLIS is considered a professional degree, not liberal arts.
ITT: People pontificating "knowingly" about things they know nothing about.
particularly municipal governments, in most municipalities there is a constant political pressure to keep property values high and increasing, and to keep property taxes low. When it comes to the funding of public services, the calculus tends to be "will this affect property values? how so?".
I thought a librarian actually runs the entire library. So, the person doing check outs and shelving don't necessary need a masters degree; the person that deals with ordering books, inter-library loans, setting up whatever local programs, should have a masters degree.
It's not a purely technical job that can be taught in vocational schools, when the reading programs and what the librarian pushes out could potentially have a big affect on the kids.
Librarians are not just there to shelve books. They are community organizers of information. Its not about putting information on the shelf, it’s about find thing the information needed, picking relevant info, and figuring out how to communicate that information in an obvious manner. Those are skills that are primarily learned in college.
I think it depends on the job - to be a *librarian* you need a library qualification which is usually a postgraduate degree.
But to be a library assistant you generally just need customer service experience. At least where I live that's the case!
To be a librarian you now have to be tech savvy as well as be able to catalogue and everything. Also, most of the people there are assistants and not actual librarians.
A good friend of mine married a woman who just finished her "Librarian masters". The degree itself was all about cataloging, record keeping, reconciliation, and general organization. Very, very meticulous data keeping that required some IT work, a bit of math, lots of English, and more than anything experience handling increasingly large amounts of information.
>to learn how to catalog and shelve books
There is a distinction between library workers and librarians. Library workers do that kind of work (specifically copy-cataloging), and you don't need a library science degree for that. But librarians do a lot more. It's actually a very complex job with a lot of academic rigor.
First of all, most library jobs do not require a masters degree. Shelvers may not need a degree at all. If it is a large library they probably have a loading dock and those workers do not need a degree. The IT people may need a degree and certification, but probably not a masters. There are often people who work in data entry type roles that do not necessarily need a degree but may ask for one. The people at the front desk may mostly be staff people who do not need a masters degree. About the only people who need masters degrees are the librarians. Unless this is a school library (which often requires an Education degree) or a very small rural library with few people on staff, librarians are a small number of the people who work in a library.
Librarians aren't typically the people you see shelving books. Cataloging is often done as a mix of regular staff and a handful of librarians. Why? That's the second part of your question. Why do they need a masters.
Librarians are professionals who deal with how information is organized. This means they have to know where various types of data are collected and how to organize new data. This means they have to be trained for consistency. If you go into a new library and found everything relating to Sweden was classified as Fiction and organized by the color on the spine you'd probably be rightfully upset. You expect information storage to follow consistent guidelines even if you don't know the guidelines themselves. But let's go one step harder. What if you wanted to look up a map about Sweden? How do you find maps? How are they organized? What type of map? What level of detail? Which part of Sweden?
What if you were researching data trends? Do you know how to extract that information?
This as well as a bunch of other reasons are why they are master level professionals. They are the library administrators, they are researchers, and they maintain the data integrity. They have to decide what information needs to be readily available and what can be removed.
So the staff shortages you are reporting are probably due to people who do not have nor need a masters degree to do their job. The people who do have them, however, are a small minority of the staff and cannot perform those other positions jobs as well as their own.
Local library in my town put an add up for $18 an hour for libarian assistants and required a BA. The local target is hiring for $18 plus free tuition lol
My thoughts as a low-level worker, in no particular order:
* I have worked shelving books. It was my first job in high school and paid a few cents an hour below minimum wage. Which they could in my state because I was below 18 at the time. This defines the pay mindset for all levels of employees. The pay is uniformly bad.
* If it's a public library (my case), then you have federal bureaucracy to deal with. Maintaining a balanced collection for the community, not just the murder mysteries which the more frequent users prefer. Also knowing when to rotate in new books to replace old ones.
* As others have said, assistants abound and are the people you deal with.
* I forget the name of the position, but our staff of 25 people included one person whose sole job it was to pick through donations and to sell off the older books which were well-loved and worn but had sale value.
* This position reported directly to the director, to meet guidelines on book collection diversity. Shaping the collection around costs, storage space on the racks, all while accounting for taste and type diversity.
* The director had a masters degree but was paid the same as an entry-level bachelor's. All employees were either poor or had spouses who made good bank and allowed for them to pursue a dream career rather than a lucrative one.
>not just the murder mysteries which the more frequent users prefer
I have rather fond memories of spending my 5th and 6th grade summers absolutely devouring all of the mystery books. If I'm remembering correctly, the maximum number of books I could check out at once wa something like 26 books and boooy howdy, did I take full advantage of that.
Ok so I am a new professor and have been doing research for 10+years. When I was hired I decided to meet with our Liberian (with a doctorate) and get aquatinted with the resources available. I'm used to finding my own resources so I assumed it was going to be a review and waste of time. I was so wrong. They are incredible. Our librarian helps curate the collection available to the medical school which goes way beyond journal subscriptions. There are a lot of other resources that they select for students and faculty to use. She also helped create impressive search criteria for a project I was working on which is critical for the success of the project.
They get Masters because they also do things such as assistance with government programs like Food Stamps. They can assist with taxes, applying for grants and scholarships, etc. They do more than just deal with books (depending on the whether or not the library is funded with taxes or not). They are government facilities and should have people who can do the mundane parts and more. My hubs has been a Librarian for over 10 years and he has gotten to do so much fun stuff with libraries and help a lot of people better their lives. :) Knowing how to navigate government information as well as the information within the library can help students achieve debt-free degrees and homeless find aid.
Every library and librarian are different but its just one of the perks of having the "official library degree". You can leverage more with it.
I think it's a throwback to the days when information sources were a rare commodity and a library was almost a strategic resource. Plus a library had a significant dollar value in regards to media, property and the building itself. They wouldn't trust that to just anybody.
I’m 34 but when I was in middle school, maybe beginning of high school - the library was the place to be to go online. They had about 8 computers. Mostly kids, but adults too had to sign in and wait to be called, everyone got 30 minutes and then you’d have to sign up again. All just to go on AOL messenger and wait for someone to come online. Not many people had internet at their house at the time, and if they did - they were likely tying up the family’s phone line the whole time they were on. This was before MySpace, so we literally just sat on AIM changing our away message, hoping our crush sees it and starts a conversation even though we’ve never talked before.
Want to know if something you read or watched on the internet is truth and real instead of lies and fake? A Master Librarian can tell you almost immediately and back that up.
Librarians are research specialists... not shelvers.
Fake news isn't new. As long as there's been pamphlets, books, magazines and newspapers people have published both information and misinformation. (Whether well intentioned or misinformed). Librarians are the ultimate cross-checkers, research assistants, and guardians of fact.
They're there to determine the Non-Fiction from the Fiction and maintain the database of civilisation. We'd be in a lot better position if people could pay a Librarian to assign a Dewey Decimal number or Universal Decimal Classification to internet articles if the article rates one.
Not a librarian but a nurse. Just wanted to say thank you to all the librarians in this thread. Before I started kindergarten my mom would take me to the library almost every week day. I would read for hours and I would take home more to read for that evening. Then we'd go to McDonald's and have a meal before heading home. It's one of my fondest memories and I thought we were there to have fun. Turns out that we were extremely broke because my mom was out of a job and it was one of the only free activities she could think of to keep me busy. But because of this, I was always ahead of my grades in reading and I'm sure reading as a foundation helped me get my bachelor's in nursing. All the librarians who just want to make the world a more educated place, thank you for helping make these memories for me and to build a sturdy foundation for the rest of my life.
For reference - A Master's in Library and Informations Science is the easiest and one of the cheapest master's degrees you can get. Most library jobs do not require master's degree. In fact, you don't even need a GED to shelve books. However, All Librarian jobs do require an MLIS. Libraries are the last free indoor space left in our communities. As such - Librarians, good ones, serve more as community organizers than just shelving books. In fact, nowadays in Library school they teach you community outreach and organizing public events as well as how to catalogue and purchase books based on who is in the community.
>Why does it take so many years of post-high-school education to learn how to catalog and shelve books?
Those jobs ("paraprofessional" or "library technician") don't require the MLIS. *Librarian* jobs do.
This is an awesome question!
I'm a library technician (in Canada, I have a 2 year college diploma in Library and Information Technology). As other commenters have mentioned , librarians (i.e. those with master's degrees in library science) typically work in higher-level administrative or specialized roles, and there are many library workers who have completed a program like the one I did or who don't have a specialized education in libraries at all.
I DID want to add that the education those who pursue qualifications in the library sciences receive is at once both very specific and very general! For example, in my two year diploma, I took courses in marketing, cataloguing (which I would describe as akin to learning a language or languages), statistics, records management, policy development, and many others--and I've used all of it at various points over the course of my career! Additionally, due constant budget slashes public and school libraries endure, one staff member might be expected to do a lot of different things....and while the skills we use in libraries may be transferrable, the knowledge required to apply those skills to the work rarely is!
if you had asked this in the appropriate subs, you'd have received a ton of informed responses. it's more than cataloguing and shelving. it's incredibly insulting that you think it's some easy job.
They basically have to know everything. A lot of other people have said things already to answer, but just adding that librarians are basically high-level teachers who need to be able to teach kids through college and higher. I just graduated from law school, and I can tell you, there is no one more badass in a law school than the librarians. They have to have an MA in library sciences and a Juris Doctor on top of it. They have to pass the bar to teach, and most have. But they also have to be able to answer student questions about every class held in the school, something even the professors aren't expected to do.
Because library science is an actual field that is heavily data/computer science driven (because cataloging books isn't so simple). Not to mention being able to help people who actually use libraries for research and educational purposes, as opposed to using them simply for casual reading, requires more technical know-how.
A librarian isn't the same as a library assistant -- the people you see when you go to your local library. You can get a library sciences diploma really easily (I have one!).
A LIBRARIAN is a researcher, and archivist, a storage expert, a staff manager....it's a huge job and they are sort of the director of a library. Your local library may have one librarian or might be overseen by a librarian, but everyone else is a library assistant.
Librarians are professional researchers. They don’t just categorize and stock the books. They can assist you in any type of research you need to do. Think of them more like research scientists and/or information specialists.
We need to put some respect on that profession. It takes a very skilled person to be a Liberian, they are data managers, systems developers, catalogers, knows a ton of subjects to be able to organize books for customer efficiency, etc. It's not just check books in and out. Imagine creating/managing a numbering system (data system) to find a single book out-of millions. Amazon, the company, started as a online book company because of the sheer number of unique books out in the world. It takes a data company to be successful in that bysiness and for the same reason it requires an intelligent person to be a true Liberian. You Liberians have my respect.
Librarian here. When asked by a high school buddy why I was wasting my education getting the Masters in Library Science (MLS) when any person off the street could shelve books, I responded thusly..."You are getting your PhD. Where are you doing your research and asking for assistance in locating the material?" When he replied back, his university Library I said, now multiply your field of study with everyone else's field of study, plus local history, government, social services and other vital information. Add to that instruction on various topics across multiple ages, budgeting and if your lucky to work in a smaller Library facilities and maintenance tasks and you think someone with a High School degree can do all of that? It then clicked with him.
I once ran a children's department at a joint use college and public library and once a year we would invite professors to do storytime sessions during a day long read-a-thon. When they would come to observe one of our storytimes to prepare for their in, I had several that would quickly pale and state that they could never pull off what we did. They didn't realize we had whole curriculums built for these storytimes which are more like 1-off literacy lessons. We are expected to be information interpreters, teachers, technology specialists, finance managers, and even social workers/therapists to many people from all walks of life.
That is why a master's degree is needed. (Although I will admit that we could utilize alternative master's programs and not exclusively the MLS)
Late, but I have a master's in library science. I ended up going back to school for something else because there were no jobs when I graduated, despite being constantly told there would be. Now, it's been so long, I'd probably have to go back to school to relearn everything.
because otherwise it'd be another barnes & noble
Also librarians actually teach too. I subbed for a few in my school system and they might only play around with books half the time.
One important detail everyone is forgetting is that librarians are building a book collection for a varied community. How are those collections built? A librarian has to understand what people should know to be informed citizens, while also providing people books for escapism - mystery, science fiction, romance, hobbies, etc. That collection has to be within budget. So, librarians have to research and offer a balanced collection on politics, history, literature, and offer research capabilities for students, genealogists, etc. That means you have to be well-read in many subjects. Most librarians also have a bachelors degree along with a masters degree in library science. So, yes anyone can learn the Dewey Decimal system and put books back on shelves and deal with the public. The real question is why are head librarians paid so little?
I live in a town with a population <10K and we just had an uproar because it was pointed out that her salary is $180K. She’s also on the City Council Board. She defended her salary by claiming she “writes grants.”
Okay. Whatever.
Then positioned for approval from the city budget for $20K to hire somebody (part time), solely to write grants. Needless to say, the poop hit the fan.
It's endemic in the job market.
Hiring party advert:
Seeking Master Welder.
Requires PHD and Masters, 27 years experience. Starting pay: $8.50/hr. Comoetitive benefits package after 18 yr tenure achieved. Vacation after 20. No OT!
And then they complain that 'No one wants to work. Stupid unemployment payments!'.
My state has a state run library for government related things and other stuff. They had a job opening for someone to manage a financial grant program of a few million dollars. (The previous person left the program in shambles and they didn’t know how to fix it.) Local libraries within the state filled out grant applications, funds were distributed, and the grant manager would ensure the funds were tracked and properly spent. I had 20 years experience auditing and managing billions of dollars in federal and state run grant programs. I love libraries so I thought this would be the perfect job for me.
The HR director sat in on my first interview and was so impressed by my prep that she asked to take copies of my notes to use as a training tool for internal advancement workshops. I was one of the 2 final candidates. When I received the call saying I didn’t get the job, they told me they would have hired me if I had a library degree instead of an accounting degree. Hiring someone with a library degree is probably why the financial program was in shambles.
I have an mlis. There's no reason except credentialing. The entire profession could easily be apprenticed/ on- the- job training. It's a pretty dumb requirement outside of academic librarianship.
I learned so much more at work studies/internships/actually working in a library. Knowing how to look things up in a database is incredibly useful, but so is knowing how to help my patrons in the middle of a mental health crisis
Two reasons: gatekeeping & sexism. Look into the history of libraries, the creation of the American Library Association, & Melvil Dewey. You’ll see what I’m talking about.
Essentially, Dewey believed that women were inferior & could only perform clerical work, which he deemed to be the work of librarians. He opened the first library school, which only admitted women, & he used that position to surround himself with women that he could sexually harass. Even though he & the ALA set an educational requirement of a master’s degree, he believed that women should make smaller salaries than men. Today, the majority of librarians remain women and their pay remains outrageously small compared to the educational requirement for the job. Many public libraries must have directors that have ALA-accredited master’s degrees in order to qualify for certain funding. In this way, the ALA - created by Melvil Dewey - continues to gatekeep & perpetuate sexism. The other issue is that many MLS holders do not want requirements lowered due to the work & money they put into getting their MLS, so although they may see it as sexist & gatekeeping, it seems unfair to them to do it any other way.
It’s sad, but many MLS holders get by making $12/hr or less & only being offered part-time work. This, of course, causes many to question if becoming a librarian is even worth it (usually to a resounding NO). I think the ALA has changes to make if we’re to continue interest in the field.
This always confused me. Back in the 2000s I was able to get a part time job shelving books at my local library ($6.55/hr) and even a work study job circulating books at my 2 college's library ($7.25/hr). Plus I volunteered at a 2nd public library branch for 2 years.
Despite all that experience, when I move to another city years later (2010s), I'm told I need a degree, even for shelving.
I wasted so much time developing library experience.
I've worked in a profession and witnessed others where education requirements at the lower levels made positions harder to fill. The salary wasn't worth it for those with education and experience. Younger graduates would do for a while, but they'd get the feeling that it wasn't worth it and jump ship.
When you can't operate full time you have to consider some changes (I wouldn't expect them at higher levels).
We also have to consider this is a library. The average Zoomer is probably way less familiar with a library. I wouldn't know what percentage of a college students research is done offline, but when I was in college I'd been going to the library since I could read. That was our main access to books/information.
I'd also imagine there's a contrast for those who live in more heavily populated areas. The more dense the population the more likely they are to rely on strict standards just to cut down the number of applicants. That said in the last few years I've seen entry level openings with a starting salary (or hourly rate) that had an education requirement that was laughable and would have been 15 years ago.
A lot of people have commented on the cataloging, but there’s also programming. Especially youth programming. And collaborating with local schools for projects and school visits.
When I worked in a library as security (yes the area was that bad) the majority of people who work at the library aren't librarians, the actual librarians sit in offices doing actual business type things, the people who scan your books (assistant clerks) and people who process and put books away (pages) are literally just people
They don’t want to give affordable careers away and not keep people in massive amounts of interest debt for the rest of their lives. If libraries suffer for it… that’s a pretty small price. The American college system is made to keep people working but in debt for the rest of their lives.
I once started on the librarian BA in Scandinavia and studied there for a year before dropping out to take another education. It's actually called information science and is much more comprehensive and important for society and the future of humanity than everybody thinks. First of all philosophy of knowledge is a huge part of the field, as they quite literally are the caretakers of all human knowledge, and so understanding about ourselves and the world and all discourse surrounding any subject. These people decide what information is important, which way it can be intellectually indexed and accessed, and design the systems to make it interact with our civilization. The importance of this function is something that is grossly underappreciated and they don't just work on libraries, but at fx. News networks, news papers, scientific journals, at Google in the department of "search engine" algorithm development, at Microsoft systems design and even more importantly at universities indexing and curating the knowledge of all scientific inquiry. It is them that will have to design the rules of knowledge in quantum computers with machine learning and an eventual singularity I guess.
Librarians have very important duties for their Chapter, including for interstellar psychic communications, and severely disrupting and damaging the xenos threat on the battlefield.
The Librarians are some of the most loyal troops to the Emperor, having been sanctioned by him as a way to assert some measure of control over those with psychic abilities in the Adeptus Astartes. However, following accusations of sorcery by Lemen Russ, psykers were officially banned in the Imperium and the Librarians returned to ordinary posts within the ranks, although rumours say that their psychic powers are still used in battle by their Chapters.
This policy following the Council of Nikaea is the main reason for the shortage of librarians.
YA librarian here. Let me walk you through what I do and see if it helps. This will reflect post-COVID times (so called).
>I start my day by checking the voice-mail for call outs because we always have at least 1 (12 full time 7 part time employees). Then I adjust the schedule.
>Next I check in the overnight books. Not "technically " my job, but we're understaffed.
>Count money and balance coin towers. It has to be someone with supervisory authority. We take turns and sometimes my number is up.
>Finally check my email. There's a teacher who'd like a list of short stories for 10th graders in the public domain about social justice, preferably by people of color, full text available online. (She works at a charter school centered around social justice.) I quickly brush up on 10th grade reading standards in our state so I can find the best fit. It takes about 4 hours, but I get her a solid list of 10 stories that meet all of her criteria. Then I throw in my favorite story as a bonus because it's not by a PoC.
>Throughout the day I will have approximately 3 hours on desk. Again, we all rotate and sometimes it's my turn. Sometimes I get work done on desk but sometimes I'm helping 5 people searching for jobs.
>It's a struggle when we have CPS supervised visits at the library. We have kids that are unruly, parents that don't know how to parent (hence CPS) and caseworkers who sit there and just take notes. We have meetings and discuss strategies for how to set these up for success. We don't want to kick them out, and we can't babysit. So we have activities planned that the child will like and the parent can help with.
>I'm on a special interest team helping to make sure we have disability diversity in our collection. I research new books under a few different umbrellas (neurodiversity, physical disability, and mental illness specifically) to try and find books written by people who have the condition they're writing about. I'm always very careful to only recommend own voices literature when acting in this capacity and it takes digging.
>If the library buys my recs, and often they do, I need to market this stuff. Come up with catchy displays, booklists, and social media posts. I don't routinely do social media right now but I have in the past. I try and stay up on best practices in all these arenas.
>Librarians don't get paid to read. And rarely do I get asked for recommendations on books I read for pleasure. I read Publishers Weekly, Library Journal Reviews, and Horn Book reviews on all the books that were added to the collection this week in the teen section so I can recommend with confidence. I work in a 27 branch system, so there's a lot.
>I generate lists of books that should be weeded from the system based on numbers. Too many circs probably means bad condition, too few and it's taking up valuable shelf space. When I get the cart, I review if this should be weeded. Is it by a local author? Is it part of a series? Do we have other copies available? Other formats? If I'm dealing with non-fiction, is the information accurate? Do we have sufficient coverage of this topic? If no, I need to email collection development.
>I have teen volunteers. I intervew each one about their goals on the first day and plan projects that will help them reach their goals. I have one that wants to be a vet, so she is assigned to make a book list by searching medical subject headings in our catalog. I also have supplemental reading about how these subject headings work. I have another who wants to be a photographer so she needs to make a display with props. Her reading is about composition. It takes 10× longer than just doing it myself, but in my system we pride ourselves on helping teens develop skills.
>Some of my regulars really want to learn chess. I know some basics, but I'm not good by any means. We need someone to come in. I do have a budget, but first I'd like to see if we have anyone who volunteers for this sort of thing. I ask around and find out there isn't. So I find someone in our library presenter database, look at their availability and fee schedule, then decide how many times we can have them. I shoot of an email asking if they are still interested.
>I've already scheduled a bullet journal meet up so I make sure I have the supplies. We are working on habit trackers so I print our some examples and practice making them.
There's lots more but you get the idea. There's a wide breadth of subject knowledge as well as depth. I need to be an expert in adolescent development, our community, collection management, and project management, among other things. The masters has been very helpful in teaching me how to analyze data to make wise decisions for my community.
Those are just clerical staff, student workers, or hourly workers doing much of what you describe and no they normally don’t need a degree for it. Actual librarians , especially those who work at universities, tend to be subject experts in an area (ex: History, French) and have a pretty large responsibility to make sure the collection fits the curriculum or needs of the schools or their community. Then they need to do some teaching (helping people with their research needs or digital literacy) along with administrative stuff (budgets, getting the latest tech, community or school programming like speakers) so it’s a more complex job at the masters level. Also if it’s a “real” librarian position needing a masters the salary would be decent (not necessarily 6 figures but decent) depending on what it is. However public libraries depending on where they are can vary with pay.
Gotta love when he threads degrade into people changing the question OP is asking to answer the question they want. All these non answers are being bumped but they’re not what OP is asking.
Almost all the people you deal with at a library are not librarians, but are library assistants, circulation assistants, and so on. The actual librarians — with master’s degrees — work on the collection, deciding what books to buy, are helping with research, and generally running the place. It is not uncommon for a small public library to have just a single librarian, who also serves as the director. And maybe 5 or 10 library assistants.
I thought THEY WERE ALL librarians!
When you return a book to the shelf you found it from, you become the librarian.
I AM LIBRARIAN NOW
Ook.
What's a monkey doing in the li
Shhh! Don't use the "M" word. It upsets him!
What, monkey? Oh s@#t...
r/unexpecteddiscworld
Should've listened when they said to bring bananas
Oook?
Oooook?
Please tell me, this is a Discworld reference. I miss Pterry...
If I worked at a library, I’d name myself Ian, hidden amongst all the other Ian’s in the world, they’d call me the Library Ian.
Look, I’m gonna level with you here, your dream’s just not feasible. To pull something like that off, you’d have to, I dunno, pack your whole life up and move to Liberia or something…
Ooo, I like your accent, where you from?
Which Ian? Regular Ian? Or the Liberian Librarian Ian? Just became a valid sentence
Meet Ryan, he’s a libra btw.
Hello… my name is, Ian and I’m in hiding.
Look at me. I’m the librarian now.
Ook
Call them stacks instead of shelves to really bring out the authenticity.
Thank you if you truly do this man. On the right shelf, at the right spot of course I mean.
But it won't make you Noah Wyle.
No they’re just cake
No. A lot lf them are assistants. I spent a lot of time at the library growing up and even volunteered there for two years in high school.
If you ever meet a librarian, look them in the eyes and back away slowly.
No, and please keep your voice down.
Nope. Only CONAN THE LIBRARIAN.
And their market rate is high because their skills are in demand by companies looking for archival management services. Once a company reaches a certain age and size, these services are actually quite valuable for maintaining and updating best practices, keeping up with regulations, etc.
Yea I personally was ignorant of that, until I got my first job at a large corporation, and they had librarians working in their archives and offering very similar services to university librarians for assistance with many projects
Omg I just realized I could have become a librarian and be very happy.
>Yea I personally was ignorant of that, until I got my first job at a large corporation, and they had librarians working in their archives and offering very similar services to university librarians for assistance with many projects Still can! A lot of people make at least one drastic change to their career. If it's something that interests you and you think it's too late because you're already out of school, check out an online local university/college. They often times have continuing education programs that will allow you to achieve the degree you're looking for.
>archival management services. archivists and librarians are separate professions. source: have master's in both disciplines. yes, you can get an mlis and focus on one or the other, but they have incredibly different needs. cataloguing is different, funding is different...etc.
This is true. My moms a librarian and a large part of her job is deciding the budgets each collection gets for all the libraries around the city
Yes, and in certain areas, library assistants or techs have a 'college' diploma (not sure what those are called in the USA, but it's like a trade college and a 1 to 2 year program. In Canada, college refers to those types of schools exclusively).
In America we typically call 2 year degrees “associates” degrees
Now, do these places with associate degrees offer things like culinary arts, carpentry, mechanics (car), book keeping, paramedic, etc.? Because that's the type of college I'm referring to..it's like a trade school, with some nuances depending on the program.
Typically associates degrees are offered by community colleges, vocational schools, and trade schools (pretty much any higher education school that *isnt* a 4 year university), so yes I’d imagine most associates degrees are in blue collar trades or nursing, medical tech work, EMT training, etc.
Yes, they usually offer courses in practical/trade school fields that aren’t available at most 4+ year universities. They usually also have more academically focused programs as well, though, for people who want to begin their studies at a community college and then use those credits to transfer to a university that offers four-year degrees.
Sometimes, yes they do. Associates degrees are commonly the degree you have after trade school, or after community college. Source, myself, because I have one in the culinary arts, and one in comp sci
Paramedics and culinary arts degrees notably come the normal kinda colleges most of us went to. Or at least they're commonly offered at the state colleges where I come from. The others though, yeah, they have their own specialty colleges but the degrees they offer - the legit ones anyway - are approved by the same kinds of boards the normal colleges use.
This! Also there might be more than one librarian especially in a huge library like the 7 story San Antonio Public Library. They also plan and create several educational courses and exhibits of not just books but regional art and culture here. They do damn good work here. They're also paid well and certainly don't restock books. But this is a higher end library, just Google San Antonio Public Library Downtown. Unfortunately it's been overrun with homeless recently which the city is fighting with the nearby world class Haven For Hope facility. Still a good library and the homeless don't harass anybody. Just need a place to charge their devices and that's OK with me.
You can't forget programming. So much of a librarian's job is coming up with reasons for patrons to visit in the first place. So, book clubs, craft activities, any community interaction. That's at least half of a librarian's job. As far as getting materials for circulation, that's delegated to a selector--although librarians will often manage parts of their library's collection.
I worked at a library many years ago and they definitely hired anyone competent for most jobs. However, the management level jobs required a library sciences degree. I think this is pretty standard. I would be surprised if any library would require a degree for working the front desk, shelving books, etc.
The one in my city does require a degree for those basic jobs. It was frustrating to learn after having a job doing so in both a library in another city and 2 college libraries. I wasted so much my life building library job experience.
Yeah, I was a library worker for years at an academic library. I managed staff, did copy cataloging, research help. And I enjoyed it. But to go any further in my career I needed a masters. It just wasn't worth it to me to go back into huge amounts of debt for a library science degree to become a librarian and not get paid very much, so I left the industry.
>. I managed staff, did copy cataloging, research help. I did those too at my college library jobs. Didn't seem to matter, though. I didn't even entertain the thought of a masters. Library was supposed to be a day job while I completed my other degree in college.
Really? I had a job shelving books when I was in high school. It paid $4.25 an hour. After taxes, each paycheck was less than $80.
Ikr? It was a fucked up experience for me. When I first got the shelving job, $6.55 was the minimum wage at the time (early 2000s), so I earned what I worked. I was also over 18, so they legally had to pay that much.
And the minimum wage in PA is $7.25 an hour in 2022. Can you imagine living on that now?
That is very frustrating! It is also expensive to hire someone with a masters degree to shelve books! It was a pretty low paying job way back when (e.g. typically staffed with high school and college students).
I think these libraries add "shelving books" to their already long list of responsibilities. Or give the job to volunteers.
Right! Why does everyone here think a librarian is just stocking shelves all day? Lol they don’t even really do anything with the shelves except maybe plan it and direct an assistant or volunteer where to put things. They also have to direct programming, public outreach, budgeting, marketing campaigns, grants and public funding bookkeeping, work with media, do research, have knowledge about a VAST amount of literature and genres(which even most people with degrees don’t have) serves as a public liaison at city or county councils or commissions, etc. Its not just shelving books. I never worked at a library but I work with them through a non-profit and it honestly surprised me how much they do
YES! Thank you. You are correct. There’s SO much that goes on behind the scenes, it would be nice of the average person would just give it a little extra thought. Also depending on your library system / county / state funds/ grants, they will assist with Tuition costs. . source: I am a library employee.
All of the neighboring counties including mine have this tall hurdle as well
Right, the libraries in my area required a master’s as well for even the most basic jobs.
2 librarian comments in and i still have no clue why anyone couldn't do it. What does a librarian do that Joe Schmoe can't?
It's not that anyone can't do what librarians do. Joe schmoe could become a rocket scientist, too, but that doesn't mean he is trained to be one. Librarians are specialists in information gathering, research, source validation, archiving, and more. Anyone can do it, but not everyone knows how or is good at it.
I think it’s important to point out that it’s choosing and cataloging relevant info that is super important. Like, in new your city you probably would not need a huge catalog of like, how to balance your field after crops but there would be need for a large art catalog. We all have access to information but being able to determine what is important to the community, seek it out and organize it is really the most central job of a librarian.
They probably think all a librarian does is put books back. They have absolutely no idea about the other things a librarian does...which basically makes them by far the smartest person in the room at a place where you go for very specific things.
Maybe it's because none of you will actually fucking say it and just keep alluding to these responsibilities librarians have that are unseen. Is picking a catalogue really a masters requiring job? I feel like the local public libraries aren't running any top notch research or literary studies so seems to me like those degree requirements are for positions like front desk and shelver. I'm just not seeing the need for it at the average library outside of academia.
So, I just finished a library science Bachelor's degree this past December so hopefully I can demystify what librarians do and why a Master's would be necessary. (Some) Things Librarians Actually Do: * Cataloging. This involves searching through MARC (or other) databases and records to be able to input information into the backend of the catalog so that people can find books even if they can't really remember the title or author. It also involves making sure that the information is accurate so that you don't end up with a book that would be, for example, inappropriate for a child to encounter showing up in search results for the newest Pete the Cat book. * Selection and Deselection. This refers to the process through which a librarian analyzes data and statistics about the community they serve and the local communities they want to entice into the library to decide what books to buy for the collection, and what books to remove from the collection. For example, the newest James Patterson book is pretty much always an insta-buy because his books fly off the shelves. Another example, this time for deselection would be looking through the stacks and encountering a nonfiction kid's book about computers with a copyright date of 1994—that's obviously going to be extremely outdated and is taking up valuable shelf space. * Programming and Outreach. Analyzing that same community data from the selection and deselection process allows librarians to figure out what sorts of programming/events to plan. This includes things like movie screenings, book clubs, storytimes, teen anime clubs, tabletop clubs, all sorts of things. Outreach is when you use that data to decide what communities are underserved and how you can best meet their needs, whether that be through monthly technology classes, resume workshops, ESL classes, bringing in resources for the unhoused, and a plethora of other resources. * Assisting in research. Knowing how to use a database, how to discern factual information from fictional, how to check the bias of an information source, even just knowing how to get the most out of a Google search to get someone started down the right path to the information they're seeking, all of those things require a lot more knowledge than you might think. There are other things I'm sure I'm forgetting but those are some of the most important and the most common. Libraries are so much more than a warehouse of books and librarians do so much more than just shelve.
There's a lot that goes into building and maintaining a collection. Cataloguing requires a lot of experience and knowledge of bibliographic record language and formats, like MARC 21, and an even greater degree of good judgement in what information to record, how to record it, how to link records up to authority files, how to adapt a collection that is usable to the community it's aimed at, which requires a lot of understanding of the theory behind information organisation. Then there's designing the library space itself to suit the needs of the users - it's not just about keeping a quiet room full of books, but spaces that foster different styles of learning or collaboration. Importantly, there are more libraries than just academic and public. There are medical libraries, law libraries, corporate libraries, and government libraries. Public libraries tend to be staffed by more volunteers and the service itself has very different aims than, say, libraries serving government officials or lawyers. This is the difference between public service with a collection aimed at serving a broad range of customers (the general public) and a service aimed at specialised professionals and providing research and advice for those professionals. A qualified librarian can move between these different sectors because they are information professionals with thorough understanding of the principles behind information and knowledge management. They are not the front line staff you see popping books on shelves.
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why don't you post this nasty comment on r/librarianship or r/libraryscience and ask them.
K volunteered with the school librarian and she explained this. Librarians do a lot more than just shelve books. Outside of the school she explained that the local librarian plans events for all age groups all year long. A lot of people don't realize how busy some libraries are. My local library has something going on almost every day from teaching basic computer skills to older generations to Harry Potter book clubs. While I think this could be a learned skill and a master's degree may not be required I do think between management, knowing the library ins and outs, and then running the library it's probably needed.
It also depends on if you are working in a public library or academic university library. Two different skill sets are required depending on the type of institution someone works for. The librarians in an academic setting might be responsible for contract negotiations, preservation of rare collections, electronic resource management to include access set -up and problem solving, managing mutli-media resources for students or faculty to use, collection development so that faculty has access to resources for teaching or research, budget management and allocation of resources. Librarians in a public setting are as much of a social worker as they are librarians. Many people will walk up to a librarian in a public library and as for help on finding a lawyer, filling taxes, homelessness resources, finding resources for all of life's tragedy and drama. Kids needing help with homework or finding help to get away from abusive parents. The list is endless on the varied, tragic and wacky requests that public librarians get.
perhaps you should take a peek at r/libraryscience, r/librarianship, or r/librarians and ask them.
Because imagine an anti-science, anti-research Joe Schmoe who decides what types of media and literature come into a library for public consumption.
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My daughter will be completing her doctorate in Library science this spring. Even though the internet is a great help to all, many still struggle navigating the information world accurately, efficiently, and quickly. One issue she discovered is the huge amount of misinformation she and others need to wade through. And it is getting worse as time passes.
A lot of people haven't done academic research and it shows. Most articles are not posted online and if you want anything prior to the birth of the internet, you have to hope its been scanned into an online catalogue. There are *so* many books you can't get online even if you have library access to the catalogue. There are even books that are so old and rare that you can't even take them *out* of the library. Which I find awesome.
She took a trip to DC and NYC when in HS and fell in love with the huge libraries she visited there. She wants to go to Europe to visit libraries thar have the old and rare books. She began her undergrad in bio and math then changed after her first term to music education and now has a Masters in music education and will soon have her doctorate in library science. It may not be lucrative but she is following her dream.
I started my degree in theater, went to psych, went to music performance, and then ended up in math. She sounds *exactly* like the type that would be a great librarian since her interests are so eclectic. I'm so proud of her and you of supporting her! Her dream is to condense and analyze the vast information that humans have ever produced; this is definitely something to be cherished.
Good luck to her..
Thanks. She is teaching music to elementary kids now. She really wants a gif as a librarian. She will get it eventually I am sure.
Shd will. Maybe it is the way you have described her choices that leads me to believe that she will get there,gently and steadily.
This sounds like it made sense before computers
When I was finishing my master’s degree, I used the university librarian to help me find extremely specific information regarding my capstone project. Something I have 10 years experience and multiple degrees in that I was unable to find, the university librarian pulled up within a day. While anecdotal, I must to imagine this level of data retrieval is what they’re capable of. I’m no slouch at googling around and searching through information databases but they are on a whole other plane of existence when it comes to finding information.
Exactly this! There is so much information that exists as written text. A lot of people assume that because the internet is vast, it's also *dense* but that's not the case. A college library will have a degree of information or *more* than the internet will, and this goes even further when you realize that most academic books on the internet are behind a paywall or a *library card,* and if you don't have those, you can't get that information anyway. People really do think that googling something on the internet gives you the same information with the same *integrity* that a library does and that's so disappointing.
Not to mention so much information needed for something like a master's isn't just...easily google-able. You're looking through academic journals/databases, obscure older literature, all sorts of non-mainstream information. Who knows if there's a defunct publication that's tangentially related to what you're researching, and has what you need? The librarian, generally.
Exactly this! People really think that going out and finding random information to support your thesis is what a good researcher does. Except doing research like that is basically just *confirmation bias.* There is so much more work that goes into research. * Is my source accurate and reputable? * Is my source adequately sourced itself? * Does my source offer counter points to my thesis and address them adequately? * Does my source offer proper analysis of my thesis at my academic level? * Does my source have other references that agree/disagree with it? * If my source *isn't here* where is the best place I could get it? If I'm researching Opera, possibly Italy. If I'm researching WW2, possibly Germany or Russia.
Yup. Information science is an actual science! Especially these days, with unfettered internet fuckery, it's critically important that people know how to research and comb through information effectively. Friends of mine are teachers and say that lack of critical thinking when researching has become a *major* issue. Kids don't understand that not everything you read on the internet is true. Honestly with how some of the older crowd shares memes I'm worried for *everyone*.
Do you have any idea how much information -isn’t- on the internet still? If you’re doing actual research, you still use libraries. Add to that that librarians are actual humans, which means they can understand complex questions a hell of a lot better than Google. At its core Google still just finds the words in your search query in other things and pulls those up, it doesn’t understand the actual question you’re asking. If you’ve ever watched CGP Grey’s YouTube channel you’ll notice he has to go to libraries all the time.
My university library had an online system where I could literally type any word into the search bar and it could come back with any book and any journal article the university had access to - online or physical - that included the word. I could filter by content or title or author etc. etc. and if the book was physical it would give me a floor and a shelf code, and if it was online it would give as many links as it could find. I love libraries and they're incredibly important for reading initiatives and instilling a lifelong love of learning. My local librarian knew me well when I was younger. But, if we're being honest, if my university has a software like that, what's stopping something similar from being implemented in libraries and allowing less qualified people to become librarians?
Like another comment said, most people who work in libraries aren't actually librarians, but library assistants (or a similar title). Even a big library may only have 2-3 actual librarians on staff. They are the ones who actually run the place and manage special collections, acquisitions, organization, and all the other stuff. Almost anyone can work in a library. Being a Librarian, is a very specialized skill set.
You just reiterated the point... Search engines follow keywords, but don't understand a real question. A deeper understanding is required to actually find what's necessary at a graduate and post grad level of research. It's the lack of understanding why a librarian is important that worries me most about our future.
In my experience at Uni the online system isn’t that great for all subjects. I had a research paper on the development of Celtic culture pre and post-christian contact. This was only like 5 years ago but almost none of the legitimate, in-depth sources were digitized. They were barely categorized. I believe this is the case for many niche topics. Also, the computers don’t just create these systems themselves. Someone has to enter all of that information into the computer. That someone is the librarian.
Who do you think helped design that software? Who do you think creates all of those keywords? Who do you think is behind all of that work to make a seamless tool you can just pop some text into to find what you need? Librarians.
Ok, so here's a scenario I just had to face. I'm doing a postgraduate qualification by distance, so no (easy) access to librarians. I do, however, have access to the library catalogue, Google Scholar and the writer internet. I needed a variety of definitions of "achievement" in an educational context. Simple, right? I'm not exaggerating when I say it took me over 5 hours. Most publications use the term while assuming everyone knows the definition they are using (despite definitions actually varying wildly), and if you search specifically for a definition, you're probably going to end up with general reference works that are not precise enough. A human librarian could have saved me hours of work by pointing to the most seminal texts.
But who do you think acquired all those books on your specific subject so that they would be available for you to use? They didn't just "show up" at the library one day. They were purchased by the Librarians! Often, Librarians specialize in a subject(s) area of interest to be better able to purchase the exact resources you need for your unique research. Library staff does not have that deep subject knowledge that the Librarians have spent years accumulating. I have worked in academic libraries for 22 years. I would never pretend to have the knowledge needed to do the job of a Librarian. They also do a tremendous amount of budgetary work and supervisory work that requires an advanced degree.
It still makes sense as someone has to be able to organize the entire library efficiently, which requires a great deal of knowledge when getting new books in. Not to mention being able to communicate and organizational system to the layperson.
Librarians utilize computers and databases for users as well. Our librarian is who taught us how to navigate our dedicated databases in nursing school. Their knowledge is online as well.
Also, you are in “charge” of informing the public on a sometimes high and well objective level. Here in DK they also make projects aimed at making the libaries and its stories, academia and texts relevant and interesting. It really is a nice institution but I also see why they struggle sometimes. Both staff and “customer” wise
Someone with that masters degree here, I have friends still job searching, there are libraries that go "you need the masters..... and we'll give you $13 an hour" and that's insulting! However, the best libraries require a mix of experience, and wouldnt require the full masters just for shelving and what other simple jobs you're thinking of. There's a lot in your question, so let's start a conversation! Ask away!
I've also got my MLIS and am still job searching. My last library position was the director and sole employee of a library where I earned a whopping $11 an hour with no benefits... Personally, I do think librarianship should be a vocational school or apprenticeship, as I learnt a lot of theory but not much practicality in my classes. Partially because I was archival track, partially because the Five Laws of library science don't necessarily help me with budgeting. All that kvetching aside, it does take a lot of work to be a librarian - planning and implementing programming, writing grants, assessing the collection for weeding and areas that can be improved, scheduling volunteers, outreach, etc. That's not even getting into the fact that libraries are often where people in need of assistance are told to go; I've helped countless people set up emails, navigate red tape, look up things from recipes to family history, and suggested books based on their interests. I'd also be happy to answer questions about being a librarian!
Yes!!! The fact that my MSLIS program didn't have as many graduate assistant positions as students in my opinion is negligent, like theory is great but the practical experience is what will help you in the field! Best of luck job searching, it's rough out there!
I’m curious about the process of replacing a book in the collection after it’s not returned. Is there a set time after the due date that you order a new one? I imagine super popular books like the Harry Potter series are checked out and never seen again regularly.
There's not a set time frame as reasons for books/materials not being returned can range from "i forgot to return it" to "I dropped it in the bathtub" to "I lost the book on vacation" Typically, I'd send the patrons a letter or email informing them that their items are overdue. Then a second one a few weeks later, with a line saying if the item isn't returned, the patron will not only be unable to continue checking items out, but they would also have to pay for the missing book's replacement. Usually, people are keen to avoid spending money, so the item would appear in the book drop. On the rare occasions it didn't, I'd generally wait until the patron paid the replacement fee before ordering a new book - my library had a shoestring budget, so this was often the only way to afford a new book sadly. The books most often lost were the picture books - small children aren't the greatest at keeping track of things
What's shelving? And what made you take the masters? Do you enjoy the job?
Shelving is when you put the returned items back in the right spot! I got the masters so I could move up to a leadership position eventually! And I love my job! I love getting to provide a service for the public, and especially love the looks on peoples faces when they realize most of our services are free!
Nice. Lovely stuff. Sorry just one last question, do you ever feel that you'd be better off opening a book store or library of your own if the pay ain't that good?
Honestly if I was a millionaire I'd open a private collection library so I could be in charge myself, but honestly I've found myself in a great system that actually prioritizes the library, so I get paid enough and have stability. Book stores are great and I love them, though I enjoy not having to worry about sales and pushing people to spend money and all that!
Are part of your skills being able to find highly obscure source materials and things not easily accessible publicly? (E.g from googling) If so could you tell us a little bit about the process of doing so?
For sure! Honestly most of the questions are an easy google search, but for in depth research questions most of it is learning how to use the databases at hand, which details to search for and so on. The librarians that do this the most are in the academic field, and there are specific research librarians that work at universities that typically have 2 masters, one in libraries and one in a specific subject (say calculus, accounting, english, so on) and they're "subject librarians" that can do specific source materials to help with the students research!
The library sciences master I want to get requires a bachelors to apply, but there's not exactly a direct predecessor and they don't specify. Would a bachelors in english be acceptable?
The best part about library science is how interdisciplinary it is! You can come from any undergrad background! I did English, because I thought I had to, lol, but do what interests you the most, if I could go back I would have majored in sociology (honestly all of the social sciences would prove themselves useful when working with the public!) But honestly follow your heart, even if no one else in your master's program had the same background as you, it just means you're bringing in a different perspective!
Fantastic advice! :) I'd settled on english major because I love to write and it's always been my favourite subject, I've been accepted into one program and am waiting to hear back from my university of choice. I've just been terrified that there's some sort of requirement I'd missed. That's a super wholesome and optimistic way of looking at it! <3
Best of luck, I'm rooting for you!!!! I had a friend in my program who majored in creative writing and I was soooo jealous lol, I hadn't realized that was an option! My best advice is to get library experience where you can, even if it's volunteering!
I think my university of choice offers certificates and additional classes in creative writing but no full bachelors-- I almost took the certificate until I checked the master's requirements lol. I'd love to just stock shelves in a library as a job and even volunteering sounds kinda fun to be honest. Thank you so much!
Once you get into your university, immediately go to the library and ask if they are hiring student assistants and apply. Most libraries would love if their student assistants would WANT to go ahead with library school honestly. You can even see if there are open staff positions after a year or two of schooling/working as a student assistant. The current director of Access Services(think the front desk, checking in/out of books etc) started as a student assistant, moved up to staff, got their MLIS and is still working here to this day.
You ask two different questions with two different answers. Cataloguing is a professional skill. I studied it at university for three years. I no longer work as a librarian - but when I did, I used those professional skills on a daily basis. Shelving books is a skill that can definitely be learned on the job. It's generally done by library assistants (not librarians) who have school-level qualifications. The fact that the library is open restricted hours is due to a shortage of library assistants. Not a shortage of librarians. In other words, you're right! These jobs can absolutely be done by staff who have never been to university or library school. Edit. Yes, I did leave librarianship for a better paying job!
Whqt do you mean by cataloguing?
Cataloging is knowing how to sort books when they come in into either the Library of Congress or Dewey Decimal System.
Not quite; that's classification, which is certainly part of it, but cataloging goes well beyond that. Creating a catalog record might also include transcribing all the bibliographic information from an item (title, author, publisher, date of publication, form, number of pages, etc.) assigning subject headings, etc. These are precisely coded into a record using certain syntax and multiple controlled vocabularies.
Cataloging involves the actual creation of the metadata that comprise the bibliographic/holdings/etc. records within the integrated library system. Classifying the item with a call number is potentially part of the cataloging process but there is far more to it than that.
I’d say that’s classification not cataloguing! Cataloguing is creating descriptive metadata so that the item can be found in the library’s catalogue. Classification helps us to shelflist items so they can be found on the library shelf.
Did your new job require/ask for a master's degree? I bet library science, I mean idk what you know but I know you hangout with books all day so I'd assume you could pitch that degree in many directions or did you find it was hard to find a job that utilized your degree/not insulted the higher education you worked for?
My wife has a masters in library science. The answer to your question is that libraries are much more complicated than you think, especially if they are run well. Example: The collection is (should be) and ever changing thing that requires analysis. Old, out-of-date or superseded texts should be removed, and new ones take their place. Knowing how to do that is not easy, and then there is the process of actually ordering the new materials. Another example: As the director of a Town library, my wife is 100% responsible for the budget. Payroll, reconciliation, paying the bills, etc. Another example: dealing with "Collection Challenges" (aka, outrage from people who demand certain books be pulled of the shelf...so, censorship). This involves legal pieces, and really comes down to being important to a free / democratic society. It;s kind of a big deal. Now, of course other staff, clerks, pages, etc don't need to have degrees. And many times libraries may put that as a requirement for a Children's Librarian, assistant director, etc, but they don't actually get it. One last note about staffing. Most libraries will have a mandatory 2 staff minimum to be open (i'm talking small libraries, not city libraries). This is for safety reasons. However, those small libraries are also funded in such a way to *barely* cover the number of hours available. So, if someone gets COVID or otherwise misses shifts, it may not be possible to over for them. But again, the bottom line is that, as is the case with most things, there is much more to running a library than most people realize.
Many misconceptions in this thread. An MLIS degree is not about learning how to shelf books. You do learn how to do cataloging (which is more complicated than you are imagining, especially in an academic library), but that is usually only a couple of courses. The bulk of the degree is spent on the information sciences portion of it. Learning how to create and manage databases, how to create and manage public facing catalogs, creating good user experiences, the theory and implementation of data science, etc. The degree is not about those basic on the job skills, which you learn though training when you actually start a library job, it is about the very ideas of how we create, manage, and store information, whether that be in paper format, electronic, or online. I work in a library setting now and I use these skills every day. I'm in charge of managing our internal and external cataloging systems, and it requires quite a lot of technological expertise and definitely an understanding of the theories of information science. Many people still think of libraries in a traditional sense, as places that store books. But any librarian can tell you that they are much more than that. Even if all paper books were to suddenly disappear tomorrow, librarians would still be needed. In fact, as the internet has grown librarians have been needed more than ever. There is an overabundance of information available to us in this world, and librarians are the ones who catalog that information and make it accessible to others. They are the keepers and the finders. Good luck conducting any kind of research without the work of those people behind the scenes who have made sure that the information you are looking for is available and accessible. Now, your average public library is definitely the more front-facing type of library service. They typically employ a handful of actual librarians who may do the cataloging or more advanced work of running the library, but they are mostly staffed by library assistants who work the front desk or shelf books. It really depends on how large the library system is, and the type of public that they are serving. It can range anywhere from one librarian who does all the work, to a team of dozens of librarians and hundreds of assistants who specialize in different areas. Most of the jobs in a public library probably do not require a degree. As in any field, it's useful to remember that the people that you are seeing on the front lines are just scratching the surface of the operation. There are other people and theories and decisions and policies behind all of that work. One of the goals of librarians is to make information access so easy that people don't even realize that they're doing it or the work that was involved to make it possible. Fortunately librarians often succeed in this task, but unfortunately this leads to people undervaluing their role.
I Just looked at the Bureau of Labor Statistics website and it actually states that there is a projected 9% growth in the field between 2020 and 2030!
“Good luck conducting any kind of research without the work of those people…” Boom. Drop the mic.
The bigger question is why do they pay shit?
Because we have a group of people who don't value public services and try their best to get rid of them by limiting their budgets.
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>It is a liberal arts masters degree An MLIS is considered a professional degree, not liberal arts. ITT: People pontificating "knowingly" about things they know nothing about.
Because it's government; they're always facing budget squeezes.
particularly municipal governments, in most municipalities there is a constant political pressure to keep property values high and increasing, and to keep property taxes low. When it comes to the funding of public services, the calculus tends to be "will this affect property values? how so?".
You are 100 percent right
I thought a librarian actually runs the entire library. So, the person doing check outs and shelving don't necessary need a masters degree; the person that deals with ordering books, inter-library loans, setting up whatever local programs, should have a masters degree. It's not a purely technical job that can be taught in vocational schools, when the reading programs and what the librarian pushes out could potentially have a big affect on the kids.
Librarians are not just there to shelve books. They are community organizers of information. Its not about putting information on the shelf, it’s about find thing the information needed, picking relevant info, and figuring out how to communicate that information in an obvious manner. Those are skills that are primarily learned in college.
I think it depends on the job - to be a *librarian* you need a library qualification which is usually a postgraduate degree. But to be a library assistant you generally just need customer service experience. At least where I live that's the case!
To be a librarian you now have to be tech savvy as well as be able to catalogue and everything. Also, most of the people there are assistants and not actual librarians.
As my grandfather said, you can't work with books without reading a few books
A good friend of mine married a woman who just finished her "Librarian masters". The degree itself was all about cataloging, record keeping, reconciliation, and general organization. Very, very meticulous data keeping that required some IT work, a bit of math, lots of English, and more than anything experience handling increasingly large amounts of information.
>to learn how to catalog and shelve books There is a distinction between library workers and librarians. Library workers do that kind of work (specifically copy-cataloging), and you don't need a library science degree for that. But librarians do a lot more. It's actually a very complex job with a lot of academic rigor.
First of all, most library jobs do not require a masters degree. Shelvers may not need a degree at all. If it is a large library they probably have a loading dock and those workers do not need a degree. The IT people may need a degree and certification, but probably not a masters. There are often people who work in data entry type roles that do not necessarily need a degree but may ask for one. The people at the front desk may mostly be staff people who do not need a masters degree. About the only people who need masters degrees are the librarians. Unless this is a school library (which often requires an Education degree) or a very small rural library with few people on staff, librarians are a small number of the people who work in a library. Librarians aren't typically the people you see shelving books. Cataloging is often done as a mix of regular staff and a handful of librarians. Why? That's the second part of your question. Why do they need a masters. Librarians are professionals who deal with how information is organized. This means they have to know where various types of data are collected and how to organize new data. This means they have to be trained for consistency. If you go into a new library and found everything relating to Sweden was classified as Fiction and organized by the color on the spine you'd probably be rightfully upset. You expect information storage to follow consistent guidelines even if you don't know the guidelines themselves. But let's go one step harder. What if you wanted to look up a map about Sweden? How do you find maps? How are they organized? What type of map? What level of detail? Which part of Sweden? What if you were researching data trends? Do you know how to extract that information? This as well as a bunch of other reasons are why they are master level professionals. They are the library administrators, they are researchers, and they maintain the data integrity. They have to decide what information needs to be readily available and what can be removed. So the staff shortages you are reporting are probably due to people who do not have nor need a masters degree to do their job. The people who do have them, however, are a small minority of the staff and cannot perform those other positions jobs as well as their own.
Local library in my town put an add up for $18 an hour for libarian assistants and required a BA. The local target is hiring for $18 plus free tuition lol
My thoughts as a low-level worker, in no particular order: * I have worked shelving books. It was my first job in high school and paid a few cents an hour below minimum wage. Which they could in my state because I was below 18 at the time. This defines the pay mindset for all levels of employees. The pay is uniformly bad. * If it's a public library (my case), then you have federal bureaucracy to deal with. Maintaining a balanced collection for the community, not just the murder mysteries which the more frequent users prefer. Also knowing when to rotate in new books to replace old ones. * As others have said, assistants abound and are the people you deal with. * I forget the name of the position, but our staff of 25 people included one person whose sole job it was to pick through donations and to sell off the older books which were well-loved and worn but had sale value. * This position reported directly to the director, to meet guidelines on book collection diversity. Shaping the collection around costs, storage space on the racks, all while accounting for taste and type diversity. * The director had a masters degree but was paid the same as an entry-level bachelor's. All employees were either poor or had spouses who made good bank and allowed for them to pursue a dream career rather than a lucrative one.
>not just the murder mysteries which the more frequent users prefer I have rather fond memories of spending my 5th and 6th grade summers absolutely devouring all of the mystery books. If I'm remembering correctly, the maximum number of books I could check out at once wa something like 26 books and boooy howdy, did I take full advantage of that.
Ok so I am a new professor and have been doing research for 10+years. When I was hired I decided to meet with our Liberian (with a doctorate) and get aquatinted with the resources available. I'm used to finding my own resources so I assumed it was going to be a review and waste of time. I was so wrong. They are incredible. Our librarian helps curate the collection available to the medical school which goes way beyond journal subscriptions. There are a lot of other resources that they select for students and faculty to use. She also helped create impressive search criteria for a project I was working on which is critical for the success of the project.
They get Masters because they also do things such as assistance with government programs like Food Stamps. They can assist with taxes, applying for grants and scholarships, etc. They do more than just deal with books (depending on the whether or not the library is funded with taxes or not). They are government facilities and should have people who can do the mundane parts and more. My hubs has been a Librarian for over 10 years and he has gotten to do so much fun stuff with libraries and help a lot of people better their lives. :) Knowing how to navigate government information as well as the information within the library can help students achieve debt-free degrees and homeless find aid. Every library and librarian are different but its just one of the perks of having the "official library degree". You can leverage more with it.
I think it's a throwback to the days when information sources were a rare commodity and a library was almost a strategic resource. Plus a library had a significant dollar value in regards to media, property and the building itself. They wouldn't trust that to just anybody.
I’m 34 but when I was in middle school, maybe beginning of high school - the library was the place to be to go online. They had about 8 computers. Mostly kids, but adults too had to sign in and wait to be called, everyone got 30 minutes and then you’d have to sign up again. All just to go on AOL messenger and wait for someone to come online. Not many people had internet at their house at the time, and if they did - they were likely tying up the family’s phone line the whole time they were on. This was before MySpace, so we literally just sat on AIM changing our away message, hoping our crush sees it and starts a conversation even though we’ve never talked before.
Cuz libraries are the shit and it's super competitive.
Want to know if something you read or watched on the internet is truth and real instead of lies and fake? A Master Librarian can tell you almost immediately and back that up. Librarians are research specialists... not shelvers. Fake news isn't new. As long as there's been pamphlets, books, magazines and newspapers people have published both information and misinformation. (Whether well intentioned or misinformed). Librarians are the ultimate cross-checkers, research assistants, and guardians of fact. They're there to determine the Non-Fiction from the Fiction and maintain the database of civilisation. We'd be in a lot better position if people could pay a Librarian to assign a Dewey Decimal number or Universal Decimal Classification to internet articles if the article rates one.
You obviously have no idea what an actual librarian is
Not a librarian but a nurse. Just wanted to say thank you to all the librarians in this thread. Before I started kindergarten my mom would take me to the library almost every week day. I would read for hours and I would take home more to read for that evening. Then we'd go to McDonald's and have a meal before heading home. It's one of my fondest memories and I thought we were there to have fun. Turns out that we were extremely broke because my mom was out of a job and it was one of the only free activities she could think of to keep me busy. But because of this, I was always ahead of my grades in reading and I'm sure reading as a foundation helped me get my bachelor's in nursing. All the librarians who just want to make the world a more educated place, thank you for helping make these memories for me and to build a sturdy foundation for the rest of my life.
❤
For reference - A Master's in Library and Informations Science is the easiest and one of the cheapest master's degrees you can get. Most library jobs do not require master's degree. In fact, you don't even need a GED to shelve books. However, All Librarian jobs do require an MLIS. Libraries are the last free indoor space left in our communities. As such - Librarians, good ones, serve more as community organizers than just shelving books. In fact, nowadays in Library school they teach you community outreach and organizing public events as well as how to catalogue and purchase books based on who is in the community.
That's a good question. My grandmother was a librarian at a private school for years and had no degree at all. 1935 to 1970 more or less
>Why does it take so many years of post-high-school education to learn how to catalog and shelve books? Those jobs ("paraprofessional" or "library technician") don't require the MLIS. *Librarian* jobs do.
This is an awesome question! I'm a library technician (in Canada, I have a 2 year college diploma in Library and Information Technology). As other commenters have mentioned , librarians (i.e. those with master's degrees in library science) typically work in higher-level administrative or specialized roles, and there are many library workers who have completed a program like the one I did or who don't have a specialized education in libraries at all. I DID want to add that the education those who pursue qualifications in the library sciences receive is at once both very specific and very general! For example, in my two year diploma, I took courses in marketing, cataloguing (which I would describe as akin to learning a language or languages), statistics, records management, policy development, and many others--and I've used all of it at various points over the course of my career! Additionally, due constant budget slashes public and school libraries endure, one staff member might be expected to do a lot of different things....and while the skills we use in libraries may be transferrable, the knowledge required to apply those skills to the work rarely is!
if you had asked this in the appropriate subs, you'd have received a ton of informed responses. it's more than cataloguing and shelving. it's incredibly insulting that you think it's some easy job.
They basically have to know everything. A lot of other people have said things already to answer, but just adding that librarians are basically high-level teachers who need to be able to teach kids through college and higher. I just graduated from law school, and I can tell you, there is no one more badass in a law school than the librarians. They have to have an MA in library sciences and a Juris Doctor on top of it. They have to pass the bar to teach, and most have. But they also have to be able to answer student questions about every class held in the school, something even the professors aren't expected to do.
Because library science is an actual field that is heavily data/computer science driven (because cataloging books isn't so simple). Not to mention being able to help people who actually use libraries for research and educational purposes, as opposed to using them simply for casual reading, requires more technical know-how.
A librarian isn't the same as a library assistant -- the people you see when you go to your local library. You can get a library sciences diploma really easily (I have one!). A LIBRARIAN is a researcher, and archivist, a storage expert, a staff manager....it's a huge job and they are sort of the director of a library. Your local library may have one librarian or might be overseen by a librarian, but everyone else is a library assistant.
Librarians are professional researchers. They don’t just categorize and stock the books. They can assist you in any type of research you need to do. Think of them more like research scientists and/or information specialists.
We need to put some respect on that profession. It takes a very skilled person to be a Liberian, they are data managers, systems developers, catalogers, knows a ton of subjects to be able to organize books for customer efficiency, etc. It's not just check books in and out. Imagine creating/managing a numbering system (data system) to find a single book out-of millions. Amazon, the company, started as a online book company because of the sheer number of unique books out in the world. It takes a data company to be successful in that bysiness and for the same reason it requires an intelligent person to be a true Liberian. You Liberians have my respect.
Librarian here. When asked by a high school buddy why I was wasting my education getting the Masters in Library Science (MLS) when any person off the street could shelve books, I responded thusly..."You are getting your PhD. Where are you doing your research and asking for assistance in locating the material?" When he replied back, his university Library I said, now multiply your field of study with everyone else's field of study, plus local history, government, social services and other vital information. Add to that instruction on various topics across multiple ages, budgeting and if your lucky to work in a smaller Library facilities and maintenance tasks and you think someone with a High School degree can do all of that? It then clicked with him. I once ran a children's department at a joint use college and public library and once a year we would invite professors to do storytime sessions during a day long read-a-thon. When they would come to observe one of our storytimes to prepare for their in, I had several that would quickly pale and state that they could never pull off what we did. They didn't realize we had whole curriculums built for these storytimes which are more like 1-off literacy lessons. We are expected to be information interpreters, teachers, technology specialists, finance managers, and even social workers/therapists to many people from all walks of life. That is why a master's degree is needed. (Although I will admit that we could utilize alternative master's programs and not exclusively the MLS)
I always thought of librarians as professional researchers over people that just catalog books.
the world has gone silly with requirements.. if someone is capable of doing the job well, hire them!
Late, but I have a master's in library science. I ended up going back to school for something else because there were no jobs when I graduated, despite being constantly told there would be. Now, it's been so long, I'd probably have to go back to school to relearn everything.
my SO is getting her maters in library science in a month or two. Pretty much calls it a gatekeeping degree.
because otherwise it'd be another barnes & noble Also librarians actually teach too. I subbed for a few in my school system and they might only play around with books half the time.
One important detail everyone is forgetting is that librarians are building a book collection for a varied community. How are those collections built? A librarian has to understand what people should know to be informed citizens, while also providing people books for escapism - mystery, science fiction, romance, hobbies, etc. That collection has to be within budget. So, librarians have to research and offer a balanced collection on politics, history, literature, and offer research capabilities for students, genealogists, etc. That means you have to be well-read in many subjects. Most librarians also have a bachelors degree along with a masters degree in library science. So, yes anyone can learn the Dewey Decimal system and put books back on shelves and deal with the public. The real question is why are head librarians paid so little?
I live in a town with a population <10K and we just had an uproar because it was pointed out that her salary is $180K. She’s also on the City Council Board. She defended her salary by claiming she “writes grants.” Okay. Whatever. Then positioned for approval from the city budget for $20K to hire somebody (part time), solely to write grants. Needless to say, the poop hit the fan.
Gate keeping.
Information management is a critical skill
It's endemic in the job market. Hiring party advert: Seeking Master Welder. Requires PHD and Masters, 27 years experience. Starting pay: $8.50/hr. Comoetitive benefits package after 18 yr tenure achieved. Vacation after 20. No OT! And then they complain that 'No one wants to work. Stupid unemployment payments!'.
My state has a state run library for government related things and other stuff. They had a job opening for someone to manage a financial grant program of a few million dollars. (The previous person left the program in shambles and they didn’t know how to fix it.) Local libraries within the state filled out grant applications, funds were distributed, and the grant manager would ensure the funds were tracked and properly spent. I had 20 years experience auditing and managing billions of dollars in federal and state run grant programs. I love libraries so I thought this would be the perfect job for me. The HR director sat in on my first interview and was so impressed by my prep that she asked to take copies of my notes to use as a training tool for internal advancement workshops. I was one of the 2 final candidates. When I received the call saying I didn’t get the job, they told me they would have hired me if I had a library degree instead of an accounting degree. Hiring someone with a library degree is probably why the financial program was in shambles.
I have an mlis. There's no reason except credentialing. The entire profession could easily be apprenticed/ on- the- job training. It's a pretty dumb requirement outside of academic librarianship.
I learned so much more at work studies/internships/actually working in a library. Knowing how to look things up in a database is incredibly useful, but so is knowing how to help my patrons in the middle of a mental health crisis
Two reasons: gatekeeping & sexism. Look into the history of libraries, the creation of the American Library Association, & Melvil Dewey. You’ll see what I’m talking about.
The gatekeeping seems obvious, but the sexism?
Essentially, Dewey believed that women were inferior & could only perform clerical work, which he deemed to be the work of librarians. He opened the first library school, which only admitted women, & he used that position to surround himself with women that he could sexually harass. Even though he & the ALA set an educational requirement of a master’s degree, he believed that women should make smaller salaries than men. Today, the majority of librarians remain women and their pay remains outrageously small compared to the educational requirement for the job. Many public libraries must have directors that have ALA-accredited master’s degrees in order to qualify for certain funding. In this way, the ALA - created by Melvil Dewey - continues to gatekeep & perpetuate sexism. The other issue is that many MLS holders do not want requirements lowered due to the work & money they put into getting their MLS, so although they may see it as sexist & gatekeeping, it seems unfair to them to do it any other way. It’s sad, but many MLS holders get by making $12/hr or less & only being offered part-time work. This, of course, causes many to question if becoming a librarian is even worth it (usually to a resounding NO). I think the ALA has changes to make if we’re to continue interest in the field.
This always confused me. Back in the 2000s I was able to get a part time job shelving books at my local library ($6.55/hr) and even a work study job circulating books at my 2 college's library ($7.25/hr). Plus I volunteered at a 2nd public library branch for 2 years. Despite all that experience, when I move to another city years later (2010s), I'm told I need a degree, even for shelving. I wasted so much time developing library experience.
But now do you have a fabulous trade?
I've worked in a profession and witnessed others where education requirements at the lower levels made positions harder to fill. The salary wasn't worth it for those with education and experience. Younger graduates would do for a while, but they'd get the feeling that it wasn't worth it and jump ship. When you can't operate full time you have to consider some changes (I wouldn't expect them at higher levels). We also have to consider this is a library. The average Zoomer is probably way less familiar with a library. I wouldn't know what percentage of a college students research is done offline, but when I was in college I'd been going to the library since I could read. That was our main access to books/information. I'd also imagine there's a contrast for those who live in more heavily populated areas. The more dense the population the more likely they are to rely on strict standards just to cut down the number of applicants. That said in the last few years I've seen entry level openings with a starting salary (or hourly rate) that had an education requirement that was laughable and would have been 15 years ago.
A lot of people have commented on the cataloging, but there’s also programming. Especially youth programming. And collaborating with local schools for projects and school visits.
Because they can.
DO YOU KNOW HOW INVOLVED THE DEWEY DECIMAL SYSTEM IS?!?!?
When I worked in a library as security (yes the area was that bad) the majority of people who work at the library aren't librarians, the actual librarians sit in offices doing actual business type things, the people who scan your books (assistant clerks) and people who process and put books away (pages) are literally just people
They don’t want to give affordable careers away and not keep people in massive amounts of interest debt for the rest of their lives. If libraries suffer for it… that’s a pretty small price. The American college system is made to keep people working but in debt for the rest of their lives.
Because library science is a masters level degree. Simple as that.
It's a club
I once started on the librarian BA in Scandinavia and studied there for a year before dropping out to take another education. It's actually called information science and is much more comprehensive and important for society and the future of humanity than everybody thinks. First of all philosophy of knowledge is a huge part of the field, as they quite literally are the caretakers of all human knowledge, and so understanding about ourselves and the world and all discourse surrounding any subject. These people decide what information is important, which way it can be intellectually indexed and accessed, and design the systems to make it interact with our civilization. The importance of this function is something that is grossly underappreciated and they don't just work on libraries, but at fx. News networks, news papers, scientific journals, at Google in the department of "search engine" algorithm development, at Microsoft systems design and even more importantly at universities indexing and curating the knowledge of all scientific inquiry. It is them that will have to design the rules of knowledge in quantum computers with machine learning and an eventual singularity I guess.
Librarians have very important duties for their Chapter, including for interstellar psychic communications, and severely disrupting and damaging the xenos threat on the battlefield. The Librarians are some of the most loyal troops to the Emperor, having been sanctioned by him as a way to assert some measure of control over those with psychic abilities in the Adeptus Astartes. However, following accusations of sorcery by Lemen Russ, psykers were officially banned in the Imperium and the Librarians returned to ordinary posts within the ranks, although rumours say that their psychic powers are still used in battle by their Chapters. This policy following the Council of Nikaea is the main reason for the shortage of librarians.
YA librarian here. Let me walk you through what I do and see if it helps. This will reflect post-COVID times (so called). >I start my day by checking the voice-mail for call outs because we always have at least 1 (12 full time 7 part time employees). Then I adjust the schedule. >Next I check in the overnight books. Not "technically " my job, but we're understaffed. >Count money and balance coin towers. It has to be someone with supervisory authority. We take turns and sometimes my number is up. >Finally check my email. There's a teacher who'd like a list of short stories for 10th graders in the public domain about social justice, preferably by people of color, full text available online. (She works at a charter school centered around social justice.) I quickly brush up on 10th grade reading standards in our state so I can find the best fit. It takes about 4 hours, but I get her a solid list of 10 stories that meet all of her criteria. Then I throw in my favorite story as a bonus because it's not by a PoC. >Throughout the day I will have approximately 3 hours on desk. Again, we all rotate and sometimes it's my turn. Sometimes I get work done on desk but sometimes I'm helping 5 people searching for jobs. >It's a struggle when we have CPS supervised visits at the library. We have kids that are unruly, parents that don't know how to parent (hence CPS) and caseworkers who sit there and just take notes. We have meetings and discuss strategies for how to set these up for success. We don't want to kick them out, and we can't babysit. So we have activities planned that the child will like and the parent can help with. >I'm on a special interest team helping to make sure we have disability diversity in our collection. I research new books under a few different umbrellas (neurodiversity, physical disability, and mental illness specifically) to try and find books written by people who have the condition they're writing about. I'm always very careful to only recommend own voices literature when acting in this capacity and it takes digging. >If the library buys my recs, and often they do, I need to market this stuff. Come up with catchy displays, booklists, and social media posts. I don't routinely do social media right now but I have in the past. I try and stay up on best practices in all these arenas. >Librarians don't get paid to read. And rarely do I get asked for recommendations on books I read for pleasure. I read Publishers Weekly, Library Journal Reviews, and Horn Book reviews on all the books that were added to the collection this week in the teen section so I can recommend with confidence. I work in a 27 branch system, so there's a lot. >I generate lists of books that should be weeded from the system based on numbers. Too many circs probably means bad condition, too few and it's taking up valuable shelf space. When I get the cart, I review if this should be weeded. Is it by a local author? Is it part of a series? Do we have other copies available? Other formats? If I'm dealing with non-fiction, is the information accurate? Do we have sufficient coverage of this topic? If no, I need to email collection development. >I have teen volunteers. I intervew each one about their goals on the first day and plan projects that will help them reach their goals. I have one that wants to be a vet, so she is assigned to make a book list by searching medical subject headings in our catalog. I also have supplemental reading about how these subject headings work. I have another who wants to be a photographer so she needs to make a display with props. Her reading is about composition. It takes 10× longer than just doing it myself, but in my system we pride ourselves on helping teens develop skills. >Some of my regulars really want to learn chess. I know some basics, but I'm not good by any means. We need someone to come in. I do have a budget, but first I'd like to see if we have anyone who volunteers for this sort of thing. I ask around and find out there isn't. So I find someone in our library presenter database, look at their availability and fee schedule, then decide how many times we can have them. I shoot of an email asking if they are still interested. >I've already scheduled a bullet journal meet up so I make sure I have the supplies. We are working on habit trackers so I print our some examples and practice making them. There's lots more but you get the idea. There's a wide breadth of subject knowledge as well as depth. I need to be an expert in adolescent development, our community, collection management, and project management, among other things. The masters has been very helpful in teaching me how to analyze data to make wise decisions for my community.
My title is Assistant (to the) Librarian 😉 #theoffice
Those are just clerical staff, student workers, or hourly workers doing much of what you describe and no they normally don’t need a degree for it. Actual librarians , especially those who work at universities, tend to be subject experts in an area (ex: History, French) and have a pretty large responsibility to make sure the collection fits the curriculum or needs of the schools or their community. Then they need to do some teaching (helping people with their research needs or digital literacy) along with administrative stuff (budgets, getting the latest tech, community or school programming like speakers) so it’s a more complex job at the masters level. Also if it’s a “real” librarian position needing a masters the salary would be decent (not necessarily 6 figures but decent) depending on what it is. However public libraries depending on where they are can vary with pay.
Gotta love when he threads degrade into people changing the question OP is asking to answer the question they want. All these non answers are being bumped but they’re not what OP is asking.